Hilton HHonors - Define Extraordinary Demand Dates

What are "extreme demand dates". Apparently these are times when even diamond members are blacked out. So much for no black out dates if you are a diamond member. Maybe we need a new level Adam? 28 stays or 60 nights is very easy for most of those that travel weekly. I would like to see something for the real loyal. I am not talking number of stays but number of nights e.g 180 nights in a calendar year. For this give us better point exchange rates for stays etc. etc. What does everybody else think about this suggestion. Another idea. This level can be what diamond used to be. The top 1% of hilton guests

[This message has been edited by sa_boy (edited 04-23-2001).]

I agree - it's not yet May and I've already requalified for Diamond status and more. Additional suggested perks for "Double Diamond" VIPs:

- Triple+ dipping (get HHonors points, plus miles to two or more frequent flyer cards? -- most "Double Diamonds" are probably members of more than one frequent flyer program anyway)
- higher % bonus per stay or continuously the "Double points and miles" bonus from earlier this year.
- guaranteed perks at all Hilton hotels (now they seem to vary very much, from complimentary Champagne and free minibar to a lousy bottle of water)
- guaranteed no blackout dates for bookings or spending of points
- special weekend-offers (similarly to 100k points for 6 nights at any hotel, how about 40k points for a weekend (Friday-Monday) anywhere, any time, "Double Diamonds" only? - now there's a real reward for loyalty?)
- some gifts or other tokens of appreciation... I didn't even get a Christmas card, and to be honest - after paying tens of thousands of $ to Hiltons during the year, I almost expected a little something...

... anyone else has additions to this "wishlist"? :-)



[This message has been edited by andersja (edited 04-24-2001).]

Hi. I tried to book a Hilton in Houston and the diamond agent mentioned "no availability due to extraordinary demand". Have any other diamond members encountered this? Did you manage to get the hotel? Thanks

I have been told that many locations will have similar problems as groups reschedule their events.

From the HHonors website:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Guaranteed Reservations availability: Reservations availability is guaranteed to Diamond VIPs when reservations are made up to 48 hours prior to intended arrival and guaranteed to a credit card. Please note that this guarantee does not apply to rates - if a rate for which you are normally eligible is not available, your reservation will be subject to the hotel's prevailing rate for the accommodations requested. Also note that in the event you do not arrive as scheduled and do not call to cancel and obtain a cancellation number, your credit card will be billed for one night's room and tax. Additionally, the reservations guarantee is not available during specified Extraordinary Demand Dates at certain hotels and is not available for reservations booked online. To make reservations under the Diamond VIP reservations guarantee, please contact our Diamond VIP desk at 1-888-HHONORS.


Enjoy HHonors Hotel Rewards without Blackout Dates: Diamond VIP members may redeem points for HHonors hotel rewards nearly any time, with the only exception being during specified Extraordinary Demand Dates at certain hotels. To make reservations for your reward stays, please contact the Diamond VIP desk at 1-888-HHONORS.</font>

Seems as though the guarantee is not much of a guarantee.

I live in Salt Lake City, home of the 2002 Winter Olympics. I noted in the newspaper a few days ago that a senior executive at Hilton was unable to get a room at the downtown Hilton here because literally every room was booked. While I am just a lowly silver, I have aspirations of being Diamond someday. The Diamond terms and conditions give guaranteed availability if a reservation is made before midnight at least two days in advance, except for "during publicly recognized events which result in extraordinary room demand as determined solely by Hilton." Obviously, the Olympics was such an event here at the downtown SLC Hilton. My question is, have any of you Diamonds ever been refused a reservation for this "extraordinary demand" escape clause, and, if so, do you feel that this refusal was justified?

Starwood has the same policy and I think it is fair. Also, when you do use this benefit, you are paying at least rack rate. Corporate rates will not work.

The Seelbach Hilton in Louisville is lousy at honoring the Diamond guarantee; Louisville has a relatively big convention center with few downtown hotels. No extraordinary demand there, just an unwillingness to toe the corporate line.

i think it's fair, too.

i've never been denied a room, but have used the diamond desk several times to secure award reservations on short notice ...and also paid stays in sold-out locations, too (but never under "extraordinary demand" situations like the super bowl, olympics, kentucky derby, etc.)

[This message has been edited by UK Stages (edited 02-17-2002).]

IMHO based on personal experience only, I think that this is the most useless benefit of all in any of the chains. I've found that everything from The Olympics (which of course belong in this crowd) to an antique fair (give me a break) in qualify as an extraordinary event. they will use any excuse to not bump someone and claim the extraordinary event clause.

Other FTers most certainly disagree, but that is my experience. Its not just Hilton, its all of the chains that do this sort of thing.

everyone's experience is indeed different.

while i mention above that i've never booked during the olympics, super bowl, etc... i have been able to get last minute reservations at otherwise sold-out hotels during conventions that have wiped out all available room inventory in an entire city. the hotels could have claimed "extraordinary demand," but didn't. two of these were on paid stays, one was an award stay.

Slightly OT, but somebody over on the Marriott board said that the downtown Marriott in Atlanta invoked the extraordinary demand clause because the Braves were playing a regular-season game in town that night.

I figure any hotel could get out of honoring this benefit at any time if they so chose.

"Sorry, there's a Georgia Tech women's lacrosse match in town this weekend, so there's nothing we can do. Would you like the number for the Motel 6 by the airport?"

Even though, I knew it would be a miracle, I attempted to use my Diamond VIP and Platinum status to get a room at a Hilton or Starwood property for the Olympics. My Concierge laughed at me for even trying, b/c it was such an obvious "special circumstance".

Oh well... it was worth a shot!

However, from what has been posted, if you do get one of these rooms b/c of your status, be prepared to shell out big $$$, b/c it is usually booked at rack rate.

I have got into "sold out hotels" at Noga Hilton-Cannes and at Hong Kong's Grand Hyatt during peak tradeshows when I booked less than a month away. Although the rates I paid are rack, they were worth it because other co-workers settled for private apt rentals further away.
But another of my co-worker tried to use Diamond guarantee at Cannes within a week and was turned away b/c too much demand.

Has anyone, at any level, ever managed to get into a hotel during blackout using points or $$$$?

As a Diamond, I got into the Williamsburg, Va. Homewood Suites during the April 1 - 5th blackout period on a three-day reward stay. Diamond Desk arranged for all details within 72 hours.

Hilton Head, Waikaloa Village and Squaw Peak all as a Diamond, through the Diamond Desk

Hi. I am a diamond member. I tried to book an award stay in Rome for July. I called the diamond desk. The first CS rep told me "Sorry this hotel is in an extreme demand date situation". As you all know, that means your diamond status gets you nowhere. Nada. Zilch. I called again. The second rep told me "No problem sir. We can organize this because you are a diamond!". Three questions come to mind. First - why should we as diamonds "the supposed top level" have to have any blackout dates? Second - What is with the inconsistency of this usage? Third - do the other hotel chains have something similar ie. even the top level have blackout dates? Thanks

If you don't like what you hear call back and speak to another agent. As a fellow Diamond I have been very pleased with the service offered by the Diamond Desk. I was able to secure a reservation at Jalousie Hilton in St. Lucia without any problem earlier this year. I was told that if the system shows no inventory then HH contacts the hotel and purchases the room.

I like the Starwood program for redeeming award stays. No blackout dates and you can book online.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sanramon:
Hi. I am a diamond member. I tried to book an award stay in Rome for July. I called the diamond desk. The first CS rep told me "Sorry this hotel is in an extreme demand date situation". As you all know, that means your diamond status gets you nowhere. Nada. Zilch. I called again. The second rep told me "No problem sir. We can organize this because you are a diamond!". Three questions come to mind. First - why should we as diamonds "the supposed top level" have to have any blackout dates? Second - What is with the inconsistency of this usage? Third - do the other hotel chains have something similar ie. even the top level have blackout dates? Thanks</font>

which property was showing an extreme demand date? looking on the website, i don't show either Rome properties with dates like that in july...maybe they just accidentally looked at blackout dates instead? Maybe you got a better rep the second time you called. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The same thing happened to me trying to book three rooms for a week at the Paris Hilton. Only one room was orignally available for late September. The Diamond Desk purchased the other rooms for me. Excellent service.

FWIW, in Rome, the Calaverri (sp?) Hilton was too far away from where we wanted to be, so we booked a quaint three star instead. We enjoyed a fantastic stay one block from the coliseum during summer 2000.

What's your problem! You got the room. I'm so sick of hearing people cry about nothing.

MikeM,

Please don't take that tone - If you don't agree with the poster, you could always express this in a reasonable way .....

Also, it therefore appears that you are happy to have to do things twice to get it right - most of us like to have a system that works first time !

John P.

"I'm so sick of hearing people cry about nothing. "
MikeM
Maybe you were just having a rough day. The point wasn't about someone "crying about nothing",but about a relatively new FT'er reporting a specific problem and asking some questions.IMHO,that's what FT is about.

Sorry to all for the crass post. Let me explain the way this post make me feel.

First the title says "I smell a rat", then goes on to say "As you all know, that means your diamond status gets you nowhere". This implies that the Hilton has a plan set into motion to decieve the Diamonds "smell rat". Moreover, it says our status "get's you nowhere". All this after getting what was asked for.

Oh my, a second call had to made to achieve the goal.

I've had a few gliches with the Diamond desk in the past, however, they have always worked out everything. It took a couple of trys to get the 50K promotion, would it be appropriate for me to send a post refering to them as "snakes" who have total disregard for "Diamonds". Like every other company the Hilton has some employees that are better than others, however, without exception they have always come through for me.

I am a HHonors Diamond and have been for many years. I have been trying to secure hotel space in Cancun over the Christmas/New Years holidays (as I did last year).

Diamond Desk called today and told me that the Hilton Cancun has denied request for space under the "extraordinary demand" clause of HHonors T & C.

Give me a break: its Christmas time and they are always busy. This is nothing extraordinary. The representative told me that "they never allow, even Diamonds, to redeem at that property during that time of year" Funny, I don't think that I was dreaming when I was down there, at that property last year.

Does anybody have any ideas as to recourse I might have?

I guess it just depends when you make the request. I was also there on a week-long award stay last Christmas that the DD arranged. I booked it eight months before, however.

Another nail in the coffin of HHonors, this time with the Diamond Desk!

Again, how low will they sink?

I was going to disagree but it looks like there's lots of paid availability for the period from Dec 23 through Jan 3. I was guessing that the hotel was sold out and unwilling to overbook for the holiday period - partcularly at an award rate.

Try calling the DDesk again?

When there is a major event in an area how do you get reservations at a Hilton property? I tried both a year out for this year's Final Four and next year's Super Bowl. As soon as the dates are listed they are all sold out prior to the public sale- and I do mean ALL of them. Not even Diamond can get them. Help would be appreciated. Thanks

When there is a major event in an area how do you get reservations at a Hilton property?

Ummmm, you don't. Every hotel in the area was probably completely booked months ago. While someone is bound to cancel, there is very little likelyhood of anything actually coming up as available. Your best bet is to look for rooms farther out of town and brace yourself for commuting in.

Ummmm, you don't. Every hotel in the area was probably completely booked months ago. While someone is bound to cancel, there is very little likelyhood of anything actually coming up as available. Your best bet is to look for rooms farther out of town and brace yourself for commuting in.
Not my point - I check more than a year out. How do you get them when they aren't yet listed before they are booked. Someone is able to do it. I just want to know how.

Not my point - I check more than a year out. How do you get them when they aren't yet listed before they are booked. Someone is able to do it. I just want to know how.

I just stayed in a hotel in Fort lauderdale that had the following posted on their Hilton web page:

All reservations during the Super Bowl (February 1 - February 4, 2007) must be made by calling the hotel directly at 954-438-7700.

You might be best off calling the hotel directly.

Otherwise, I know organizations and tour operators will negotiate with the hotel in advance and book every room the hotel has during the event. At that point, there is no way to book a room there without going through the 3rd party organization (usually for higher prices). I would call the hotels in question and ask them how to get a room or who to contact if you want a room there.

I just stayed in a hotel in Fort lauderdale that had the following posted on their Hilton web page:

All reservations during the Super Bowl (February 1 - February 4, 2007) must be made by calling the hotel directly at 954-438-7700.

You might be best off calling the hotel directly.

Otherwise, I know organizations and tour operators will negotiate with the hotel in advance and book every room the hotel has during the event. At that point, there is no way to book a room there without going through the 3rd party organization (usually for higher prices). I would call the hotels in question and ask them how to get a room or who to contact if you want a room there.

Thank you! That's what I was looking for.

Not even Diamond can get them.

Not true. I had a Diamond guarantee used at the 2004 Superbowl as well as this years. Not true at all.

Not my point - I check more than a year out. How do you get them when they aren't yet listed before they are booked. Someone is able to do it. I just want to know how.

The Miami Herald had a story in it a month or so ago about the 2007 Super Bowl. The story said that in order to even bid for the game, the community had to have a certain number of hotel rooms and that a certain percentage of those hotel rooms (a huge number, around 70% if I recall correctly) had to be blocked aside for the NFL. What they do with them I don't know, but those are a large number of rooms that never make it out for public consumption, at least not without going through a tour agency of some sort.

I found the story I was talking about, although it is archived and you have to sign in. Here is the specific part -

"The NFL holds the biggest block of Super Bowl rooms -- the Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach tourism bureaus reserved 17,000 rooms for the league as part of its bid for the 2007 game."

It would be useful to have a list of such dates, when Diamonds may not redeem awards or guarantee a paid room. Does a list exist?

Can anyone really define Extraordinary Demand Dates? I tried to book one night at Homewood Suites (Houston-Westchase) for 10/17 for a paid stay, the DD put me on hold while they called the property, and came back to tell me there was no room at the inn, and when I pushed the guaranteed availability, they gave me the Extraordinary Demand line.

For giggles, I looked at the following 4 weeks I need to go back to the same location, and they are all listed as contact the diamond desk for Monday-Wednesday evenings through 11/14. So, I called back to the DD, and asked for any Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday between now and 11/14, and guess what, they are all not bookable, or Diamond Forceable. I can't imagine what value a guaranteed reservation is to a business traveler if I can't book a single Wednesday night over the next month! The very kind DD rep when I called back let me know that the dates are NOT listed with Hilton as Extraordinary Demand dates, but can't get me a room nonetheless.

Is this the fault of the property, overselling without leaving some rooms for last-minute diamonds? Is there any recourse for a member? I'm not looking for compensation, I just want a room!

Probably some corporate customer has a hold on all the rooms.

I believe it's whenever they want to say no forces, no pissing off the corporate guy who has all the rooms, etc.

There's no recourse, if there are no rooms, there are no rooms. There must be other places near by with availability.

Can anyone really define Extraordinary Demand Dates? I tried to book one night at Homewood Suites (Houston-Westchase) for 10/17 for a paid stay, the DD put me on hold while they called the property, and came back to tell me there was no room at the inn, and when I pushed the guaranteed availability, they gave me the Extraordinary Demand line.

For giggles, I looked at the following 4 weeks I need to go back to the same location, and they are all listed as contact the diamond desk for Monday-Wednesday evenings through 11/14. So, I called back to the DD, and asked for any Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday between now and 11/14, and guess what, they are all not bookable, or Diamond Forceable. I can't imagine what value a guaranteed reservation is to a business traveler if I can't book a single Wednesday night over the next month! The very kind DD rep when I called back let me know that the dates are NOT listed with Hilton as Extraordinary Demand dates, but can't get me a room nonetheless.

Is this the fault of the property, overselling without leaving some rooms for last-minute diamonds? Is there any recourse for a member? I'm not looking for compensation, I just want a room!

As said earlier in this thread. I smell a rat!

There must be other places near by with availability.

Sure, there are. Instead of being literally across the street from where I am working, I will be a 20-30 minute drive away with traffic. So, for the next five weeks, instead of cooking my own breakfast in a Homewood Suites, I will be enjoying a Hampton Inn frozen egg concoction. Instead of walking back to the hotel room at lunch, taking some downtime and having a leisurely lunch, I will get to fight traffic daily to run out to a burger joint. Instead of evening receptions at the Homewood Suites, I will be enjoying $2 sodas from the Hampton Inn machine.

I get all of these "perks" for being lucky enough to stay at the Hampton Inn and pay $20 more a night then the Homewood Suites! I get these perks because Hilton promised me that if I was loyal to them and earned Diamond, they would guarantee me availability with 48 hours notice. If they don't intend on honoring their "guarantee" it isn't much of a guarantee is it? Like probably every other person on this board, I have been walked from properties before. I really do hate to sound like an elitist, but if they need to walk someone so that they can give me a room, so be it. Isn't that the level of service we have earned with our loyalty and our wallets?

Hi. I tried to book a Hilton in Houston and the diamond agent mentioned "no availability due to extraordinary demand". Have any other diamond members encountered this? Did you manage to get the hotel? Thanks
Their are not that many of them. The ones that have them are in smaller towns, IE a Hampton inn next to a Nascar race track, etc. I get the Hilton downtown Indy every year for the race. I also have had Hilton WDW and Waldorf for New years Eve with out any issues.

I am a new Diamond member of HHonors, and I just tried to book a property. This property has extraordinary demand for all of February and all of March, but one can only find this out by calling the 800 number. Supposedly Diamond members have no blackout dates for point bookings. Does anybody know the difference between a blackout date and an extraordinary demand date? Also, does anybody know where to find these extraordinary demand dates? If not, why is Diamond such a great thing?

Define Extraordinary Demand Dates (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745747&highlight=Extraordinary)

Black out dates are where the hotel is generally busy - say over Christams and New year etc. So they dont want everyone cashing in their points at these times - apart from Diamonds (and in most cases Golds)

If the hotel is full and showing Ex demand, then you cant even book and pay cash but you can with black out dates.

Diamonds should be able to use their points anytime unless the hotel class a certain date(s) as Extraordanary demand date - such as if their is a pop concert on or similar. It is really an nonsence as it contradicts the benifit as Diamonds should be able to book when the hotel is full but if it is full then their is obviously high demand (Extraudanary or not) Also it is strange concept as no matter what the demand is - when the hotel is booked up - it is booked up...

It is just a loop hole and 2 months does sound over the top. They are only meant to use the Ex demand rule occationaly and with good reason.

On the other hand - if it is not an ex demand date and the hotel is full - then diamond desk should be able to fit you in - even usuing points - this is one of the best perks of diamond AND the best value of using points as the rack rates are generally very high for a forced stay. For this reason - I dont understand why they have ex demand dates if they can do that when a property is full.

Does anybody know the difference between a blackout date and an extraordinary demand date? Also, does anybody know where to find these extraordinary demand dates?

Superbowl, Final Four, Olympics, etc...

Two months seems excessive...I would give the Diamond Desk a call and see if they can shoehorn you in...they will probably have to contact the hotel and call you back!. As a Diamond, I have had 100% success in booking awards this way for many, many years!

which hotel is it??
I had a lot of problems with Arc de triomple when it fiirst opened as they had not loaded something or rather . but I eventually go the dates I required. keep trying but always give us more details than u have on this OP then we can help advise better.

College graduations.

University of Michigan for instance. 3 night minimum which is ridiculous.

Two months seems excessive...I would give the Diamond Desk a call and see if they can shoehorn you in...they will probably have to contact the hotel and call you back!. As a Diamond, I have had 100% success in booking awards this way for many, many years!
I agree I have never seen them longer then a weekend. In big cities they normally do not have any. Evne the super bowl cna be done, just can not be set on one hotel.

I don't have the paper in front of me so I might be off on a detail or two but I'll try to explain. The form that Hilton sends my hotel defines a "Blackout Date" as a date that is exempt from reward activity. The hotel (may vary by Hilton chain) gets to pick up to 12 days a year that qualify but are not allowed to Blackout consecutive weekends. Diamond members can still use their 48hr guarantee.

An Extraordinary Demand Date is a date that prevents even the 48hr guarantee. All dates must be approved by Hilton, a reason has to be provided. The only two acceptable reasons for an EDD are 1) The hotel has turned control of all its inventory over to a 3rd party or 2) The hotel has booked all its rooms to a group who has paid a non-refundable deposit.

Without the form I can't say how many days can be selected under EDD but Hilton has to approve them. Hope this clears things up.

Was reading the latest in this thread and happened to go over to www.hhonors.com to check my account. Plastered on the main HHonors page (before I log in) is a banner ad proclaiming NO blackout dates. I was aware of no blackout dates for Diamonds and Golds, but now it seems the no blackout dates pledge applies to everyone. There is also a link under "Program News" that states no blackout dates.

Even more interesting, clicking on the ad reveals another page where it says "If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it." This is news to me. I have never seen HHonors state (as Starwood does) that award redemption is available if a standard room exists. This seems to be the equivalent of no capacity controls. Has HHonors changed policy and truly moved to no capacity controls?

Was reading the latest in this thread and happened to go over to www.hhonors.com to check my account. Plastered on the main HHonors page (before I log in) is a banner ad proclaiming NO blackout dates. I was aware of no blackout dates for Diamonds and Golds, but now it seems the no blackout dates pledge applies to everyone. There is also a link under "Program News" that states no blackout dates.

Even more interesting, clicking on the ad reveals another page where it says "If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it." This is news to me. I have never seen HHonors state (as Starwood does) that award redemption is available if a standard room exists. This seems to be the equivalent of no capacity controls. Has HHonors changed policy and truly moved to no capacity controls?

I just saw the same thing and came to flyertalk.com to see what's up. I have also just tried to use points in Chicago on Easter, when (believe it or not) plenty of roooms are available at relatively low rates, and all the downtown hotels show no reward availability.

Can someone explain??

Even more interesting, clicking on the ad reveals another page where it says "If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it."

If a standard room is available...

It's sounds like Marriott with their stay anytime rewards. You can use stay anytime if there's a STANDARD ROOM. Any other room type doesn't qualify (with marriott, I'm not certain, but the way it reads, sounds the same at Hilton).