American Express Membership Rewards - Silly Centurion Chargers

I know my Centurion is just a credit card. At the end of the day that its purpose is to be used to make purchases of all types for which I will pay Amex and earn MR points. That being said, I go to the Starbucks near my house every morning because I am too lazy to clean my coffee pot. There are two guys who are on nearly the same morning schedule I am and whenever they go they both feel the need to buy their Venti Drip (Large Coffee) with their Centurion card. Is it just me, or does that seem ridiculous to anyone else? Granted, I can not see the reason to ever use a credit card for a $1.70 purchase, but whipping out the Centurion to buy a cup of coffee seems a bit over the top. Am I alone on this?

Yes, your alone.

Its alot easier to pay for things with a credit card, be it Centurion or not.

Who carries cash? I never do. Those $1.70 purchases add up and may put them over the edge for a MR reward.

I go to my local Starbucks every morning, and always use my Amex to pay. I just don't like carrying cash around, and eventually, after about three years, those Starbucks purchases add up to a decent reward.

While I am not a Centurion (or even a lowly Platinum), I too use my Amex for everything. My Centurion father does as well. Coins are such a hassle, I prefer to track all my spending using my CC statement.

I have probably spent $15 in cash in the last 2 weeks. I have a card case which contains my business cards, my Amex Platinum, one MC and a few dollars in cash. Everything else is in my billfold which actually doesnt come out very often:)

If I went to Starbucks every day for a $1.70 purchase, I would just buy a Starbucks gift card for, say $50 or $100, charged to my AmEx, and then use the Starbucks card daily until it's time to refill.

While I agree with others that I like to put every purchase on my AmEx so the MR points add up, I also don't see a need to see daily $1.70 charges on my monthly AmEx statements. I think I would find that to be irritating. Rather to see an occasional $50 or $100 Starbucks charge, once a month or so.

Susan

If I went to Starbucks every day for a $1.70 purchase, I would just buy a Starbucks gift card for, say $50 or $100, charged to my AmEx, and then use the Starbucks card daily until it's time to refill.

You could do that with all kinds of places. Starbucks. Burger King. Borders. Just about every retailer has their own card nowadays, to give you the opportunity to throw a chunk of your money to them and let it earn interest for them, instead of you. But how many cards can your wallet hold, if you want them to be reasonably accessible? With a couple credit cards, driver's license, work ID, a couple debit cards and such, I don't have room in mine for all those retailer cards.

Well, I don't think there are that many retailers that one would visit daily for a less-than-$2 spend. I agree, I wouldn't do it for every retailer that I visit on occasion, but for something like a daily coffee, it would make sense to me. Bottom line, however, is that everyone can choose what is most convenient for them, whether it be cash, charge card, etc. As long as Starbucks takes AmEx for a $1.70 buy and the customer chooses to use it, I wouldn't let what others do bother me -- unless I was constantly stuck waiting in the queue waiting for them to pay. :)

Susan

I use my Centurion card at Starbucks and everywhere else that takes it, for my convenience. I use it like a debit card, and my husband has to deal with the numerous small charges on the statement.

I rarely carry more than 40 bucks cash on me, and that's for emergencies. If a seller takes a card for payment, that's what I use. It's easy for me, and I get points/miles, and I pay my bill weekly, not monthly. I charge everything I buy, period. I just charged a 1.93 for a cup of coffee at my Starbucks too.

As a restaurant owner, I *love* it when customers pay with a credit card, no matter how small. It's that much less than cash that can be stolen.

As a customer, I can't remember the last time I paid cash for system. Points really do add up. :)

I'm glad I don't drink coffee:)

I've never understood the fascination with Starbucks. I could never pay that much for a drink that didn't have alcohol in it.

If I went to Starbucks every day for a $1.70 purchase, I would just buy a Starbucks gift card for, say $50 or $100, charged to my AmEx, and then use the Starbucks card daily until it's time to refill.


Exactly what I do. The Starbucks cards authorize immediately and since I go every day, its worth carrying the extra card.

Despite the universal response that I am alone, I think you are all crazy and it bugs me to wait extra time for your credit card to authorize the $1.70 charge. :D Now, please don't tell me that your single drink order takes 15 words to complete... Double shot, half caf, mocha, extra hot, double cup, tripple pump, soy, chai, venti, latte. Ugh.

I've never understood the fascination with Starbucks. I could never pay that much for a drink that didn't have alcohol in it.

Same here. Maybe it's a fad of the decade to walk around with your WSJ in hand, leather briefcase and a steamy cup of $4 coffee. Who knows; then again, I'm not a coffee drinker. To each his own I guess.

As a restaurant owner, I *love* it when customers pay with a credit card, no matter how small. It's that much less than cash that can be stolen.


Don't you have a minimum merchant charge?

Exactly what I do. The Starbucks cards authorize immediately and since I go every day, its worth carrying the extra card.

Despite the universal response that I am alone, I think you are all crazy and it bugs me to wait extra time for your credit card to authorize the $1.70 charge. :D Now, please don't tell me that your single drink order takes 15 words to complete... Double shot, half caf, mocha, extra hot, double cup, tripple pump, soy, chai, venti, latte. Ugh.

I find that I never need to do any waiting, it's just swipe-and-go at Starbucks with Amex. Cash takes longer!

I've never understood the fascination with Starbucks. I could never pay that much for a drink that didn't have alcohol in it.

To me, it's not their coffee. I don't even like coffee that much, but their Iced Green Tea is absolutely incredible. And I've tried and tried to find places that have a similar tasting product for a lower price, it just can't be done. So that $2 charge everyday is more than worthwhile to me. Though while I do agree that seeing little charges from everyday on my statement is bothersome, I still prefer that method than cash or buying a Starbucks gift card, which would just be another card I have to carry.

As a restaurant owner, I *love* it when customers pay with a credit card, no matter how small. It's that much less than cash that can be stolen.

As a customer, I can't remember the last time I paid cash for system. Points really do add up. :)

:D

i really dislike carrying cash (just the hassle of withdrawal/carrying/change/etc) i wish electronic payment was more universally standardized... :(

cash takes considerably longer than credit card, unless youre one of the very rare people who has exact change ready and waiting.

Pizzaman's comment about credit card's preventing cash being stolen is interesting. Are restaurants/coffee shops getting spectacular rates from their merchant accounts?

I don't know what kind of deal Starbucks has with Amex, but most merchants pay a transaction fee of about 25 cents plus say 2% of the total. So every person who uses a card for a $1.70 item essentially pays $1.45 for the coffee, and 29 cents to Amex for the priviledge of using the card. Of course Starbucks pays Amex not you, but that's why the prices are so damn high.

And Starbucks gets to keep the whole thing from the guy next to you who pays cash, and he can't even contest the charges on his bill if he gets the wrong coffee!

That said, I prefer to use a card at all times. Quicker, easier and there's none of that annoying change to deal with.

By the way, who orders a $4 cup of coffee? I've been going to Starbucks for years, and my drinks, even when I do the large, have never topped like $2.50?

I'm in agreement with everybody else- I use my credit card (not necessarily Centurion) for everything and anything. This includes Starbucks with my $2.15 Venti black iced tea sweetened or my $2.55 venti iced coffee sweetened :)

Cash= :td:. I'm probably not alone, but I don't patronize merchants that don't accept cards (strip clubs don't count :p)

Am I alone on this?What They Said- yes.

Points is points, and the only place I won't use my AmEx (or Visa if they don't take AX) for small purchases are small merchants which probably haven't been able to get bulk rates on fees, to save them some money.

As far as the "small charges", an $0.47 charge (at the Post Office mailing a large letter with the automated machine) takes up the same amount of line-space (online; and I'd guess the paper bills, but I never open those anyway) as the $2500 hotel stay.

Oh, and I work in Starbucks (I have T-Mobile internet) so I'll every now and then get one of their coffees, too (plus, it's a great place to meet women :)).

What They Said- yes.

Points is points, and the only place I won't use my AmEx (or Visa if they don't take AX) for small purchases are small merchants which probably haven't been able to get bulk rates on fees, to save them some money.

As far as the "small charges", an $0.47 charge (at the Post Office mailing a large letter with the automated machine) takes up the same amount of line-space (online; and I'd guess the paper bills, but I never open those anyway) as the $2500 hotel stay.

Oh, and I work in Starbucks (I have T-Mobile internet) so I'll every now and then get one of their coffees, too (plus, it's a great place to meet women :)).

I'm annoyed that the Post Office machines have a 1 dollar minimum now. I liked it for the convenience of not having to wait in line...

I charge most everything, too, but I am finding more and more places here in NYC that are cash only. I charge everything just to keep track of spending and not having to run and get cash.

fuzz

The Starbucks cards authorize immediately ... and it bugs me to wait extra time for your credit card to authorize the $1.70 charge. :D
I don't think there's much difference in authorization speeds (I'm sure SB doesn't run their own processing system, likely farming that out to First Data or the like) and you don't have to even sign for purchases <$15 (or $25, I forget), a practice that's thankfully beginning to spread to more small-ticket merchants (Burger King and Albertsons' grocery stores, f'rinstance).

Am I alone on this?

No...

But then again....I'm one those guys who carries a mininum of $500-600 of cash in my wallet at all times too.

No...

But then again....I'm one those guys who carries a mininum of $500-600 of cash in my wallet at all times too.

Finally, some support! :p

I usually get that much from the ATM and only use the cash for small purchases (snacks, gum, etc.), tips, and for the house keeper. I don't go back to the ATM until I am almost out of cash which tends to take a very long time.

Finally, some support! :p

I usually get that much from the ATM and only use the cash for small purchases (snacks, gum, etc.), tips, and for the house keeper. I don't go back to the ATM until I am almost out of cash which tends to take a very long time.

Don't you find it difficult to pay the housekeeper in cash? I mean, by the time you figure out the social security witholdings, etc...

;-) ;-)

Yup, you're alone on this.

I don't carry cash and use Cent everywhere I can. Including Starbucks every morning when I get my crappuccino & bagels. Now, if I could only feed that cc to a parking meter :D

Yup, you're alone on this.


No...

But then again....I'm one those guys who carries a mininum of $500-600 of cash in my wallet at all times too.

Clearly not alone. Just a minority. Stop the discrimination! :D

As a restaurant owner, I *love* it when customers pay with a credit card, no matter how small.


Well, I would be willing to bet that 98% of restaurant owners feel differently.

In fact they would love not to take credit cards. Much less for small purchases of two dollars.

Pizzaman's comment about credit card's preventing cash being stolen is interesting. Are restaurants/coffee shops getting spectacular rates from their merchant accounts?

I don't know what kind of deal Starbucks has with Amex, but most merchants pay a transaction fee of about 25 cents plus say 2% of the total.

Your estimation is a bit off. We pay a blended rate of roughly 2%. Now, our deal is better than average, but 25 cents plus 2% would be considered pretty usurious in the fast-casual world. For larger restaurants, it would be better, but still not great.

The way I look at this (not all owners do) is I'm paying 2% insurance on those transactions for the benefit of knowing there is 0% shrinkage on those transactions. Hence, unless I was sure I could control theft/shrinkage at an effective rate better than 98% on all cash sales, this is a much better deal for me.

Remember, there's employee theft AND customer theft. We consistently have scam artists who pay with a $100 bill, then try and futz around with the change and fool a cashier into giving them the $100 bill back along with change. We don't get caught often, but we don't need to get caught too often to make this a losing proposition.

On kennycrudup's comments about auth speeds, there should be no difference. A store either authorizes on dialup, or some form of broadband. All transactions would be handled through the same pipeline. While it's *possible* one processor might give authorization faster than another, I've yet to see it.

To aviators99's question about minimum charge, we have none. Some merchants put it in place because they don't want to get charged a higher percentage on smaller transactions. Most plans charge a "click fee" between 2 cents and 15 cents on top of a fixed percentage, so smaller transactions would incur a higher fee. I look at this from the standpoint of average check. My average check on cash transactions is ~$8.00, where my CCs are anywhere between $12 and $15. I'll happily take a credit card for a $2 soda if that helps influence that person's future purchasing decisions.

One of the reasons some people get a Sbucks card instead of using their credit card is because the card themselves can be automatically reloaded from the credit card of their choice, and Sbucks has run promos in the past by adding extra amounts to cards for various reasons.

To aviators99's question about minimum charge, we have none. Some merchants put it in place because they don't want to get charged a higher percentage on smaller transactions. Most plans charge a "click fee" between 2 cents and 15 cents on top of a fixed percentage, so smaller transactions would incur a higher fee. I look at this from the standpoint of average check. My average check on cash transactions is ~$8.00, where my CCs are anywhere between $12 and $15. I'll happily take a credit card for a $2 soda if that helps influence that person's future purchasing decisions.


I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking if your merchant provider charges a merchant fee (what you seem to call a "click fee"). I've been a merchant before, and was surprised that you apparently didn't have one. If someone charges $1 on a credit card, you could be paying 15-17% on that transaction. If that doesn't affect your bottom line, that's great.

I use a credit card for every place that takes them. Yes, I have charged a newspaper (50c). I usually use my Costco Amex at Sbucks (I don't get there that often) because I get 3% cash back on it. So that $1.70 drink earns me a nickel back. :D

As for parking meters, newer areas that use a central "Pay here" box often do accept credit cards.

Well, I would be willing to bet that 98% of restaurant owners feel differently.

In fact they would love not to take credit cards. Much less for small purchases of two dollars.

Are you in the foodservice industry? There are plenty of surveys out there that show the average restaurant transaction goes up considerably when patrons pay with a credit card. Restaurant owners fade the "loss" on the smaller transaction for the profit on the larger one.

I have 10s of thousands of credit card transactions from my restaurants that clearly show growth of 30-50% across the board in credit card transactions vs. cash transactions. Additionally, I'm part of a franchise system with approximately 60 franchisees. Of those 60 franchisees, I have spoken to every one about credit cards. Only one doesn't like taking credit cards, and they don't run very good restaurants.

I don't mean to be rude, but if you're not in the foodservice industry, making statements about what are facts in that industry doesn't really contribute to the discussion. If you want to voice your opinion, no problem. I will steadfastly defend your right to express any opinion (as long as it's within the TOS of FT ;) )However, you are incorrect on the facts regarding the use of credit cards by restaurant owners.

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking if your merchant provider charges a merchant fee (what you seem to call a "click fee"). I've been a merchant before, and was surprised that you apparently didn't have one. If someone charges $1 on a credit card, you could be paying 15-17% on that transaction. If that doesn't affect your bottom line, that's great.

aviators99, we do pay a click fee, although the term "merchant fee" generally isn't used as much as it used to be. Most of the chain restaurants (quick service and fast-casual), have gone to a pricing model called "interchange pass-through". You can google this to find out the different rates, but basically, the merchant charges you a fee per transaction, then "passes through" the exact fee Visa or MC charges them. So, in essence, their profit is just the per transaction fee. In our case, that "click fee" is 3.4 cents. The percentage charged by Visa/MC varies from a low of 1.2% (debit cards) to a high of 3% (some of the top tier reward cards). However, when we blend all of those rates together and add in the click fee, we generally average anywhere between 1.9% and 2.2% of the trasaction in fees.

Using the $2 soda example, it would cost me 3.4 cents plus 2%(avg) to accept a credit card payment. That would total 7.4 cents, or 3.7% on this transaction. This assumes that EVERY small transaction is executed on a 2% card, where most of those are usually debit card transactions. Debit costs less, thus my normal cost for those transactions is less than 3%. Now, take into account a $14 lunch. I get charged the same 3.4 cents, plus 2%, which equals 2.2% in fees on this transaction. Make this a debit card transaction, and my fee drops to 1.4%. It all works out in the wash.

Couple that with my earlier comment of the fact that the consumer who just comes by for a soda on their credit card will most likely come back to eat again and buy a full meal, and I can average 2% just on their two transactions, let alone all the other people who charge a full meal.

Exactly what I do. The Starbucks cards authorize immediately and since I go every day, its worth carrying the extra card. .

As does my Amex card.

I think you are all crazy and it bugs me to wait extra time for your credit card to authorize the $1.70 charge. :D

Well, I think *you* are crazy for getting yet another card for no real benefit and it bugs me to no end to read people like you who think becuase they pay with cash or with a SB card, it's better than those who pay by another card, ie Amex. A card is a card. Your perception that it's showing off or is silly is the same reason why you insist on using an SB card. Why on earth would i want to buy yet another card and give my money up front to SB? What if you"lose" your SB card, then what? The silliest thing from your comment is that you now use TWO cards to pay for your coffee (the SB and the card to buy the SB card), while "we" use ONE. Now that IS silly.

aviators99, we do pay a click fee, although the term "merchant fee" generally isn't used as much as it used to be. Most of the chain restaurants (quick service and fast-casual), have gone to a pricing model called "interchange pass-through". You can google this to find out the different rates, but basically, the merchant charges you a fee per transaction, then "passes through" the exact fee Visa or MC charges them. So, in essence, their profit is just the per transaction fee. In our case, that "click fee" is 3.4 cents. The percentage charged by Visa/MC varies from a low of 1.2% (debit cards) to a high of 3% (some of the top tier reward cards). However, when we blend all of those rates together and add in the click fee, we generally average anywhere between 1.9% and 2.2% of the trasaction in fees.

Using the $2 soda example, it would cost me 3.4 cents plus 2%(avg) to accept a credit card payment. That would total 7.4 cents, or 3.7% on this transaction. This assumes that EVERY small transaction is executed on a 2% card, where most of those are usually debit card transactions. Debit costs less, thus my normal cost for those transactions is less than 3%. Now, take into account a $14 lunch. I get charged the same 3.4 cents, plus 2%, which equals 2.2% in fees on this transaction. Make this a debit card transaction, and my fee drops to 1.4%. It all works out in the wash.

Couple that with my earlier comment of the fact that the consumer who just comes by for a soda on their credit card will most likely come back to eat again and buy a full meal, and I can average 2% just on their two transactions, let alone all the other people who charge a full meal.


I totally agree with you. In this age of direct-deposit everything, I would find it an immense hassle to carry enough cash with me to actually pay for everything I consume in a week...and would find it a hassle to keep cash around to pay for even a couple merchants that didn't accept electronic payments.

Do you guys remember what $600 in cash actually does to your wallet? It gets so big it puts your leg to sleep just sitting in the car with it in your pocket, and that's just with $100s or $50s...wait till you actually get change somewhere. It gets ridiculously large and disorganized pretty quick.

Not to mention, now we're talking an extra weekly or monthly trip to the bank to replenish the cash supply, which is a hassle in itself. And good luck trying to keep track of your expenditures that way.

I carry a $20 or $50 tucked into my wallet in case I hit a toll and my sunpass battery died, or I need to get change to pay a tip in cash, something like that.

EVERYTHING else gets charged. This is the way I do it, and I find it much easier to manage life this way, or at least to manage money. If I go to a place and they give me a hassle about accepting a credit card, I will usually pay cash that once and then not go back there.

Merchants need to get with the program and realize that 99%+ of all businesses accept cards these days and, once someone switches from using cash to using electronic payments, they're not going to start making special trips to the bank and carrying cash just to accomodate that one holdout merchant who doesn't take cards.

Most people will just start going somewhere else unless the product is really THAT good and THAT unique....which is rare. Sometimes you have to make exceptions, like going to Cabot's up in Newton MA (if you've been, you know what I'm talking about). I tolerate cash-only there because it's just that good and you can't get it anywhere else.

But generally, if the drycleaner, or papajohns, or a gas station, hair salon, whatever, refused to accept cards, then screw it...I'll just go to one of the other 20,000 places where I can get the exact same thing minus the hassle.

I can't imagine everyone else on the planet is that different from me, as far as (even subconsciously) steering away from places where you encounter a hassle. So what's better for business? Collecting 97% +/- of a credit card transaction, or 100% of no sale?

The whole argument seems silly. These days, it's a cost of doing business...like the light bill. Merchants who stick to cash-only, unless they have a REALLY unique product, are screwing themselves since, I would imagine, the cost of the % of customers who won't frequent them because they don't have cash with them right then and it's an impulse-buy, or they don't want to frequent them regularly because of the hassle, has got to cost more than the 3% +/- that it would cost to accept cards.

I don't patronize merchants that don't accept cards (strip clubs don't count :p)

What kind of strip clubs (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9774524/) are you going to that they don't accept Amex?

I don't know about you, but if I'm spending all that money on a credit card, it'd be silly of me NOT to use it. :p

I don't know about you, but if I'm spending all that money on a credit card, it'd be silly of me NOT to use it.

i totally agree, and i am just a lowly, recently acquired Plat. (though as a 24 year old who has gotten there on my own merit, I'm pretty content with this... for now) ;)
Having worked in retail and restaurant operations, not only is it more convenient for the customer to use a CC but the business prefers it to cash (like Pizza Man said, the merchant fees are invaluable when it comes to the shrinkage prevented if everyone were to use CCs on every transaction) and gift cards, I can't speak for every merchant, but generally, they are a real pain in the butt to fix gift card transactions when any little thing goes wrong in a transaction, and many times cannot be fixed at all in store at the POS, you have to call the number on the back of the card and it takes awhile to fix.. And I dont know about you, but who wants to go through that type of hassle over a Starbucks coffee?
My two cents: Charge on, Centurions (and everyone else) LOL

Pizzaman, I suspect that your business decision to accept credit cards is probably a good one. I know, as a customer, I would be less likely to patronize an establishment which refused to take credit cards.

However, I think you may be making a statistical error if your belief that taking credit cards causes higher spending is based principally on the data quoted below:

I have 10s of thousands of credit card transactions from my restaurants that clearly show growth of 30-50% across the board in credit card transactions vs. cash transactions. .

This effect would probably be seen even if were true that accepting credit cards had no impact whatsoever on people's propensity to spend.

This thread actually illustrates the reason. Although I use credit cards for everything, I recognize that lots of people don't. The OP and others said that they prefer to use cash for small purchases and credit cards for large ones. No one expressed a preference for using credit cards for small purchases and cash for large ones.

You don't need too many people who think like the OP to end up with a different average check size for cash versus credit even if none of your customers decisions about what to purchase are influenced by the form of payment.

If I went to Starbucks every day for a $1.70 purchase, I would just buy a Starbucks gift card for, say $50 or $100, charged to my AmEx, and then use the Starbucks card daily until it's time to refill.

While I agree with others that I like to put every purchase on my AmEx so the MR points add up, I also don't see a need to see daily $1.70 charges on my monthly AmEx statements. I think I would find that to be irritating. Rather to see an occasional $50 or $100 Starbucks charge, once a month or so.

Susan

similar here, I set auto reload.
The other day starbucks sent me a thank you gift for my loyalty :D

You don't need too many people who think like the OP to end up with a different average check size for cash versus credit even if none of your customers decisions about what to purchase are influenced by the form of payment.
Well, IMHO, I think it's a "spiraling" effect: I start charging more things, and realize I need less cash-in-pocket (it's not unusual I'll have <$5 sometimes, but I really need to stop doing that and keep at least a $20). I have less cash-in-pocket, so I start charging more things. Since I'm now not encumbered in spending by how little (and ever-decreasing) cash-in-pocket I have, I'll likely spend more when paying with a card.

^^ to pizzaman (as an owner) :)

i also agree on the points and financial records - but the simple HASSLE of cash (even more importantly change/losing change) is still the biggest factor for me personally.

there is a huge difference between carrying bills and coin all the time, and withdrawing a sum, large or small, for a specific special payment etc.

maybe if i were incredibly wealthy, and could simply hand out $100 or $50, etc it wouldnt be the same issue for me.. but i cant imagine ever being that wealthy.

if i can ever avoid a merchant that doesnt take amex for example, i pretty much always will.

SB’s twice a day, always use AMEX, and guess what, they always take it. Well actually that’s a bit conservative, I go twice a day for me (black bold) and usually take my assistant, for some quality time. I tried the SB card, but just don’t see the point, I like my wallet lean, every week or so I empty it of all the unnecessary cards that seem to breed in it. So that’s 1.72 x 4 x 5 =34.40 + 1lb of Gold Coast a week, around 13.00, so that brings me to 47.40, x 52 = $2,464.80 annually. Is that amount worth using the AMEX? Now do I drink too much coffee… it keeps me on my edge.

As does my Amex card.



Well, I think *you* are crazy for getting yet another card for no real benefit and it bugs me to no end to read people like you who think becuase they pay with cash or with a SB card, it's better than those who pay by another card, ie Amex. A card is a card. Your perception that it's showing off or is silly is the same reason why you insist on using an SB card. Why on earth would i want to buy yet another card and give my money up front to SB? What if you"lose" your SB card, then what? The silliest thing from your comment is that you now use TWO cards to pay for your coffee (the SB and the card to buy the SB card), while "we" use ONE. Now that IS silly.

Uhmmm, just to be clear I am not attacking you personally so, chill out. :rolleyes:

I'm just glad to say that since I no longer work in an office, or retail sales for that matter (I work out of my home office), I no longer find myself drinking coffee. Back in the office, I'd have 9 cups of coffee (Starbucks house brand, Pete's house or even Tully's) everyday. Back when I worked at both Macy's and Nordstrom, I'd be out buying coffee at our e-bar (the Nordstrom Espresso bar) or at the coffee shop near the Macy's where I worked at Stanford at least 4-5 times daily).

So, fortunately, no more coffee or charging it on a card. I do, however, have to admit, that I do use my AMX for as many purchases, big or small, I can, as the whole notion of using debit/cash is crazy. I get the protection from AMX and I earn my MR points.

Eric

RLG,

I politely disagree with your theory. In my business, the difference between a small transaction and a large transaction is less than $10. While some might view that as significant, people know they're spending at least $5 for lunch when they walk through my door. Demographic data supports the fact that the customer coming through my door isn't really concerned about the difference between a $5 lunch and a $9 lunch.

However, let me posit some reasons why we see larger credit card transactions vs. cash. Some of these are hypothesis, others are more factual:

1. People using a credit card are generally less price conscious. This falls under both of the categories I mention above. However, the mathematical data to support this can be found in that I sell more "complete meals" (sandwich, fries and drink) to credit card customers than I do to cash customers.
2. Credit/debit cards in the hands of college kids. This is as close to science as you can get. This is OPM. We see college kids all day long come in to eat, and buy their friends food at the same time when their friends are short on cash. Why not, mom and dad are paying?

Your theory about larger transactions being more cc based does ring true when you come to AMEX, though. Average transaction for MC/VISA is $12. However, AMEX is usually $15 or higher. Why? A lot of businesses still use AMEX as their corporate charge card, so we see lots of "office orders" (ten sandwiches or more) getting charged on AMEX.

There is a ton of statistical data showing people's spending habits that indicate higher purchase levels when using plastic. Bottom line, though, as a business owner, I make my customer happier by accepting plastic with no minimum transaction, and my average check is higher on cc transactions.

Sounds like a winner to me. ^

Pizzaman, I suspect that your business decision to accept credit cards is probably a good one. I know, as a customer, I would be less likely to patronize an establishment which refused to take credit cards.

However, I think you may be making a statistical error if your belief that taking credit cards causes higher spending is based principally on the data quoted below:



This effect would probably be seen even if were true that accepting credit cards had no impact whatsoever on people's propensity to spend.

This thread actually illustrates the reason. Although I use credit cards for everything, I recognize that lots of people don't. The OP and others said that they prefer to use cash for small purchases and credit cards for large ones. No one expressed a preference for using credit cards for small purchases and cash for large ones.

You don't need too many people who think like the OP to end up with a different average check size for cash versus credit even if none of your customers decisions about what to purchase are influenced by the form of payment.

i use my cc for everything, i used to use my blue card for everything, now its my platinum card, i charge everything even this time in college i charged a .10 scantron why, becuase i didnt dont ever carry change or have cash.. imho its too cumbersum.. thats why i hate places that only take cash.. usually my friends up paying and then i just get em back when a place takes cc

i use my cc for everything, i used to use my blue card for everything, now its my platinum card, i charge everything even this time in college i charged a .10 scantron why, becuase i didnt dont ever carry change or have cash.. imho its too cumbersum.. thats why i hate places that only take cash.. usually my friends up paying and then i just get em back when a place takes cc

Hmmmm ... I'm curious- mind telling us which college you'd attended?

Hmmmm ... I'm curious- mind telling us which college you'd attended?

Well put.

whoops sorry :-\ it was in a hurry oh well shoot me:confused:

Wait- don't get me wrong- I have few doubts to the veracity of your claims that you've attended an institution of higher learning- it's just that in ~20 years I'll be sending my own kids to college and ... well, let's just say that knowing where you'd attended will greatly aid me in my selection process. :)





1:56, incl. preview, to "Submit Reply".

i use my cc for everything, i used to use my blue card for everything, now its my platinum card, i charge everything even this time in college i charged a .10 scantron why, becuase i didnt dont ever carry change or have cash.. imho its too cumbersum.. thats why i hate places that only take cash.. usually my friends up paying and then i just get em back when a place takes cc

HA! The smallest charge I've done at my college was a $.25 blue book. Often times I have charged less than 10 cents when there's some random tax leftover from a coupon or something at grocery stores.

Wow. My school's bookstore sucks. When I tried to buy a Scantron once, I was told that I couldn't charge anything under $1, so I wound up having to buy a drink. :(

Wait- don't get me wrong- I have few doubts to the veracity of your claims that you've attended an institution of higher learning- it's just that in ~20 years I'll be sending my own kids to college and ... well, let's just say that knowing where you'd attended will greatly aid me in my selection process. :)
1:56, incl. preview, to "Submit Reply".

In about 14 years you're going to start realizing YOUR selection process is becoming increasingly irrelevant :p Sorry, couldn't resist.

Meanwhile, charge on!

Wow. My school's bookstore sucks. When I tried to buy a Scantron once, I was told that I couldn't charge anything under $1, so I wound up having to buy a drink. :(

It's like being very thirsty at Costco. In order to get a drink you have to (or may as well) take a hot dog. Haven't tried charging it yet, though.

It's like being very thirsty at Costco. In order to get a drink you have to (or may as well) take a hot dog. Haven't tried charging it yet, though.

Good thing.

They only take cash at the food counter.

If you want to charge it, you have to go to the register and take the rcpt with you to the side window, which sometimes is much faster than standing in the line at the counter.

(I often go pick up a chicken ceasar salad for lunch)

In about 14 years you're going to start realizing YOUR selection process is becoming increasingly irrelevant :p Sorry, couldn't resist.
... so my parent-of-teenagers friends tell me, but here's the thing- unless they're paying for college, Pops has Final Approval. :)

Wait- don't get me wrong- I have few doubts to the veracity of your claims that you've attended an institution of higher learning- it's just that in ~20 years I'll be sending my own kids to college and ... well, let's just say that knowing where you'd attended will greatly aid me in my selection process. :)



Thanks for making me laugh this morning!
We have a similar sense of humor.

Lol...

I did undergrad at 2 schools, and had to buy scantrons and bluebooks at one...free at the other one.

I remember thinking "how cheap can you possibly GET?"

Thought it was ridiculous.

Wait- don't get me wrong- I have few doubts to the veracity of your claims that you've attended an institution of higher learning- it's just that in ~20 years I'll be sending my own kids to college and ... well, let's just say that knowing where you'd attended will greatly aid me in my selection process. :)

Thank you. Your posting was, in my humble opinion, the best posting I have ever read on FT!





1:56, incl. preview, to "Submit Reply".

I'm still bitter my college's bookstore doesn't take Amex. At least in the store. Yet they do online, which is boggling to me. But regardless, I end up ordering my textbooks/bluebooks/supplies via the online site, that way I can pay with the Amex and get the points, plus it's delivered right to my door so I don't have to wait in line during the rush days of the quarter.

I'm with everyone else here in saying that I frequently avoid places that don't take Amex, and when there are times I need cash, that's when I make my run to a bank. Otherwise, carrying cash is too much of a hassle.

Uhmmm, just to be clear I am not attacking you personally so, chill out. :rolleyes:


That's nice but you still haven't addressed any of the points i raised.

We Canucks have an advantage of you all.. I just pull out my debit card and be done with it after pressing a few buttons. No need to carry an expensive credit card when you can just slide your debit card and be done with the transaction. :)

But then, I understand some of you earn points so... that offsets the credit card usage. :D

Sanosuke!

I don't understand debit cards. Why would I want to fork over my money to the merchant immediately and receive no MR/FF points (i.e. use a debit card) when I can pay on my AMEX Plat, earn valuable MR points, defer payment for 30+ days and earn interest on that money in the mean time? I guess debit cards make sense if one is not able to control their spending behavior with a charge/credit card. Otherwise, a debit card is no good to me. I've never used one and see no reason to do so.

I don't understand debit cards. Why would I want to fork over my money to the merchant immediately and receive no MR/FF points (i.e. use a debit card) when I can pay on my AMEX Plat, earn valuable MR points, defer payment for 30+ days and earn interest on that money in the mean time? I guess debit cards make sense if one is not able to control their spending behavior with a charge/credit card. Otherwise, a debit card is no good to me. I've never used one and see no reason to do so.

Preach it. :cool:

I don't understand debit cards. Why would I want to fork over my money to the merchant immediately and receive no MR/FF points (i.e. use a debit card) when I can pay on my AMEX Plat, earn valuable MR points, defer payment for 30+ days and earn interest on that money in the mean time? I guess debit cards make sense if one is not able to control their spending behavior with a charge/credit card. Otherwise, a debit card is no good to me. I've never used one and see no reason to do so.

^I still refer to mine as my "ATM" card because that's all I use it for.

You guys haven't lived until you charge a .50cent candy bar on your Centrioun Card.

I myself ALWAYS use my Cards, I leave about $100 in my pocket for valet tips or non-cash accepting places, but I can say that I have the same 100 in my pocket I had 1 week ago.

That's nice but you still haven't addressed any of the points i raised.

Hmmmm, well, I suggest you read the thread and then edit your last post. I think for the sake of the thread, the board, and my sanity, we should just not respond to eachother any further in this thread. :rolleyes:

In the UK very few people will use cards for small purchases, but I've always been of the belief that cards are more convenient. Even before collecting points I paid on card whenever possible although a lot of places have minimum spends here.

I tend to go to the bank once a month to put money back in, I very rarely have to withdraw money. If we're in a group ordering a meal I tend to put the bills of everyone who's paying cash onto my card and pocket the cash (and points) myself. Always adds up to a few thousand extra points a month doing this.

Also as the small things can add up too if I'm going to get a sandwich or something else small I'll ask the people around me in the office if they want me to get anything. (we've got an open plan office which is fairly common in the UK)

What I don't understand... a lot of you claim that you don't carry cash, not even $2 for some coffee. When I'm in the US, I usually "need" quite some cash -- for tipping/valet etc.

As far as tips in stores (even coffee shops) and such, they have all started putting tip lines on their credit card receipts. And for those of us who live in the US, we don't need to tip so much because we aren't staying at hotels, getting cabs, etc. Valet parking is a reason to carry cash, though...

As far as tips in stores (even coffee shops) and such, they have all started putting tip lines on their credit card receipts. And for those of us who live in the US, we don't need to tip so much because we aren't staying at hotels, getting cabs, etc. Valet parking is a reason to carry cash, though...

Agreed, valet is the only thing I carry cash for.

Agreed, valet is the only thing I carry cash for.

...which is why I am rarely able to valet because as soon as I start pulling into the valet lots, I realize I don't have cash! :mad: I really need to start keeping a valet stash of $20 or so in my car...

The only valet service that I've ever seen that takes credit card is at Bellevue Square in Bellevue, WA.

...which is why I am rarely able to valet because as soon as I start pulling into the valet lots, I realize I don't have cash! :mad: I really need to start keeping a valet stash of $20 or so in my car...

The only valet service that I've ever seen that takes credit card is at Bellevue Square in Bellevue, WA.

Also Metropolitan Grill in Seattle :-)

My most frequent vendor for my amex is 7-11: much better coffee than Starbucks and cheaper too. I especially like the RFID chip in my Amex Blue Cash - just wave my wallet at the scanner and I'm on my way in 5 seconds. Faster for me and them, plus cash back.

My most frequent vendor for my amex is 7-11: ... I especially like the RFID chip in my Amex Blue Cash - just wave my wallet at the scanner and I'm on my way in 5 seconds.
Wow- I never added it up, but now that I think about it, same here- I like SB, but the 7-11 by my office is always open and have ATMs that are fee-free for my CU, plus my SPG AmEx is ExpressPay-enabled, too.

My most frequent vendor for my amex is 7-11: much better coffee than Starbucks and cheaper too. I especially like the RFID chip in my Amex Blue Cash - just wave my wallet at the scanner and I'm on my way in 5 seconds. Faster for me and them, plus cash back.

7-11 is great for a basic coffee fix. Ditto on the RFID, it has made my life so much easier, I don't even let the reciept print- just wait for the register to say approved and be on my merry way.

I don't even let the reciept print- just wait for the register to say approved and be on my merry way.
Hell, the owner/operator of the one I frequent the most (mustnotcallhimApumustnotcallhimApumustnot...) knows who I am by now so I just take off as soon as I hear the "beep" (although you have to be careful- they're evidently in the process of installing new machines in 7-11s now that don't give you as loud an audible confirmation). I figure if I don't have enough for a coffee on my SPG, I've got real problems. :)