Asia - To what Asian country should I go?

A friend of mine and I are planning a trip to Asia next year (me using my Skyteam miles for her ticket). We like culture, natural beauty, and money is somewhat of a consideration.

Any suggestions?

A friend of mine and I are planning a trip to Asia next year (me using my Skyteam miles for her ticket). We like culture, natural beauty, and money is somewhat of a consideration.

Any suggestions?

Cambodia (served by Korean Air).

- Michael

For a first trip to Asia, I would recommend Thailand, also served by Korean Air on Skyteam. The tourist infrastructure is solidly in place, and it's easy for even a first-timer to negotiate.

I am very fond of Cambodia, but it requires a bit more work, and IMO has a higher culture shock quotient than Thailand. I actually like that quality about Cambodia, but for a first trip recommendation, I will have to say Thailand.

Come to think of it, my wife's intro to Asia went like this: Saigon, the Delta, Chau Doc, a boat up the Mekong to Phnom Penh, a bus to Siem Reap, then a flight to Bangkok. She did fine, and loved Cambodia every bit as much as I, so . . . ?

I like Bali, staying most of the time in Ubud, the artist heart of the island.

Another vote for Thailand. Bali is good too, but more expensive to get to and little more difficult to manage/get around.

Thailand. Widest range of activities and available facilities/services for every budget, plus the vast majority of people a visitor will encounter speak good working English.

I love Bali for getaway purposes, but I wouldn't recommend it for a first-time visitor to Asia. Cambodia was nice, but I agree with the others that it requires more work on the travelers' part, comes with more of a culture shock, and the range of activities is not as broad as in Thailand.

especially Malacca.

slow, colerful, friendly, delicious, clean, smiling, inexpensive, no hassle, no tipping, only modest soliciting, limited price negotiation, less tourist trap, few sex industries, multicultural, multiethnic, historic, English-spoken, good airline, and so-so toilets.

I would strongly suggest starting from Malaysia for Asia beginners.

You didn't say how much time you're going to be spending.

Cambodia is my favorite in Asia. Wonderful people, timeless attractions, very powerful recent history that can be explored. A bit rough around the edges though.

Thailand is a good choice too: beaches, temples, nightlife, jungle.

Japan is also a place everyone should visit before they die but you'll have to be much more conscious of your budget if you go there.

Really, most of Asia is going to have wonderful culture, fascinating people, sights, smells, and attractions that will blow your western mind. Singapore is a bit boring though, I'd hesitate to recommend that as a top choice if you're only going to one place.

I think we're shooting for around 10-14 days, all told. I see a lot of votes for Thailand. Interesting.
I'd love to go to Cambodia, but my friend is a little worried about their political situation.

Anyone for China? Hong Kong? I thought HK was great, China was very interesting, and Japan fascinating. SE Asia has much to offer as well. Frankly, I don't think that you can go wrong no matter what you decide.

Portions of the post that previously appeared in this space have been deleted. I would provide you with a reason why, but doing so would likely be against the TOS.

I think we're shooting for around 10-14 days, all told. I see a lot of votes for Thailand. Interesting.
I'd love to go to Cambodia, but my friend is a little worried about their political situation.

You don't need to worry about the political situation in Cambodia - it's very stable, and more so than it's been in decades. (It may not be the prime example of a liberal democracy, but it's very stable.) There's no significant political risk for travelers here. Other risks, perhaps (watch what you eat, drink bottled water, use mosquito repellent in the rainy season, etc.), but not political ones.

I would say that, given the recent coup, Thailand arguably has a less stable political situation than Cambodia.

Either place is great for a vacation, though; and, as uncertaintraveler points out, with 10-14 days you could easily combine them. There are plenty of affordable flights between the two countries, and they are also well connected by road.

FWIW, I agree with uncertaintraveler about Chiang Mai as well: it's highly overrated. Go to Luang Prabang, which is what Chiang Mai markets itself to be but hasn't been for decades (if ever).

For flights around the region (Thailand/Cambodia/Laos), I would look at Bangkok Airways (PG) Discovery Airpass (also valid on Lao Aviation, I believe). PG is a great airline, and the airpass can save a fair amount of money (though not always - check it out).

- Michael

I would allow more time in Bangkok than uncertaintraveler suggests. On my first visit to Thailand six years ago, I spent 9 days "in country," only two of which were outside Bangkok-- on Koh Samet--if you count Ayuddhya and Bang Pa-in as part of Bangkok and environs. I didn't like Koh Samet much, a little too "rustic" for me, so I was quite eager to get back to Bangkok. You can easily fill 5 days in Bangkok (and environs) with no repetition.

I'd love to go to Cambodia, but my friend is a little worried about their political situation.

I'll go ahead and reiterate what everyone else is saying: Fear not Cambodia. It's very safe and now is the time to go while the rest of the world is (very quickly I might add) still figuring it out.

When was Cambodia not safe after the early 90's?

Vietnam would be high on my list. Otherwise - Starting in Bangkok and making your way down to Singapore (using a combination of LCC's, train and bus) is also very do-able and can be doen comfortably on a limited budget. I'd say 2 weeks is the minimum to get real value out of a trip like this.

Since you're using Skyteam miles I'd approach this from a different angle: first see where there's decent award availability, then pick a destination. With your parameters there are many places in Asia I'm sure you'd love. But Skyteam doesn't have great coverage of SE Asia. If you go there you'll likely be relying on KE, and their awards can be tough.

Where are your miles? If it's DL the SQ partnership should greatly expand your options, even if you don't stop in SIN (and you shouldn't given what you're looking for). I believe NW gets you access to MH awards. CO partners with BR, but their awards are very pricey.

I'd definitely explore availability before getting psyched for a specific choice. Make a list of all of your program's destinations, be ready with a very flexible list of dates, and prepare for a marathon telephone session. If you get an agent who seems unfamiliar booking int'l partner awards hang up and try again. With a little persistence I'm sure you'll find something great.

This is great advice. Absolutely the best way to go. Especially the part about flexibility.
Since you're using Skyteam miles I'd approach this from a different angle: first see where there's decent award availability, then pick a destination. With your parameters there are many places in Asia I'm sure you'd love. But Skyteam doesn't have great coverage of SE Asia. If you go there you'll likely be relying on KE, and their awards can be tough.

Where are your miles? If it's DL the SQ partnership should greatly expand your options, even if you don't stop in SIN (and you shouldn't given what you're looking for). I believe NW gets you access to MH awards. CO partners with BR, but their awards are very pricey.

I'd definitely explore availability before getting psyched for a specific choice. Make a list of all of your program's destinations, be ready with a very flexible list of dates, and prepare for a marathon telephone session. If you get an agent who seems unfamiliar booking int'l partner awards hang up and try again. With a little persistence I'm sure you'll find something great.

I find FT extremely useful, fun, and (almost always) friendly & helpful. But I don't think your question is best suited to the FT approach.

You basically can't go wrong in any part of Asia as long as you don't try to do too much, from Mongolia to Malacca. One reason why you might be hearing so much about Thailand and Cambodia on this thread is that China, Japan, and Hong Kong all have their own forums.

For your question, since you know best what you want out the trip, I'd go to a book store/library and read widely--see what catches you eye. "Lonely Planet" and the others can give you a much more balanced sense of the Asian countries than we can. Then come back to FT with something more specific in mind and FTers can tell you about the little pub around the corner or the boats available....and etc.

Vietnam would be high on my list.

I'm always one to support a recommendation to Vietnam! Unfortunately its not the most developed of places for tourism. It is changing fast, so perhaps that's a reason to go there asap. However, I think I'd have to say Thailand would be my first choice. Beyond that I can't really add much to the intelligent discussion that's already taken place.

As for flights, when I last checked, Sky Team's Air France were stopping again between CDG and SGN/HAN at BKK. So you can use them for BKK/SGN etc. This sector always used to be underused - I've done it twice in C - one time being the only PAX, and another time being one of three. That was a while back.

For a LCC between Saigon and Bangkok, check out http://www.pacificairlines.com.vn/

When was Cambodia not safe after the early 90's?

July 1997 (http://www.seasite.niu.edu/khmer/Ledgerwood/july_56_1997_events.htm)? But that was 10 years ago, and nothing much has happened since.

- Michael

Or the riots against Thais and Thai businesses a few years ago? Lots of property damage, not sure how many injuries.

As for flights, when I last checked, Sky Team's Air France were stopping again between CDG and SGN/HAN at BKK. So you can use them for BKK/SGN etc. This sector always used to be underused - I've done it twice in C - one time being the only PAX, and another time being one of three. That was a while back.

For a LCC between Saigon and Bangkok, check out http://www.pacificairlines.com.vn/

Yes, the AF flights are an excellent option between BKK and SGN/HAN, although they don't fly every day. If you can't get them as part of an award, very cheap fares often book into full Y, yielding elite bonuses. You can find the cheap fares on Air France's Vietnamese Web site:

http://www.airfrance.com/vn

Don't worry--you can book in English. One thing to watch out for is that the luggage restriction is fairly low, and overage on these routes is extraordinarily expensive (something like 5X or 10X the normal rate if memory serves).

Once again to the OP: I strongly suggest you explore availability, then come back to the board with a few possibilities. There's nothing worse than getting really stoked for a great trip and finding your mileage won't get you there.

I appreciate all of the advice. For those who suggest, practically, that I look for award availability before I look to find the best destination, well, Asian is a place I've only recently taken an interest in.
The ideas I've gathered aren't just useful for this trip, but also give me ideas for others. And I might not even use my miles to fly my friend, deciding to have her transfer her miles for the trip to me and then I'll use my miles somewhere else.

I'd vote for China or Japan. Japan isn't as expensive as it used to be (deflation and a fall in the Yen against many currencies have helped). I'm not sure when you plan to go, so China may be difficult/expensive if it's around the Olympics.

Japan can be an incredibly beautiful place and is so long from north to south that you've got a huge variety of sceneries depending on where you go. And of course, Japanese culture is top notch.

China can also offer up natural beauty outside of the major cities and can be quite cheap if you go about it the right way (or quite expensive if your budget changes and you decide to splurge :p). Shanghai truly is one of the world's 'hot' cities at the moment and has a lot to offer. Beijing is a better place to get a feel for the history of China. Meanwhile, places farther out from those two cities will bring you to the Terra Cotta Warriors and other ancient treasures. Plus, with PVG, PEK, CAN and other airports served by Skyteam, I'm sure you'll be able to find some availability to China if you're not going in the run up to the Olympics.

Or the riots against Thais and Thai businesses a few years ago? Lots of property damage, not sure how many injuries.

Yeah, I thought about listing that too, but it's not really in the same league. Yes, the Thai embassy and a number of Thai-owned businesses got destroyed, but otherwise things were pretty calm -- which is a far cry from what happened in 1997 AFAIK. (I wasn't here in '97 but was here during the anti-Thai riots.)

Politics were involved in the riots -- though more so (or at least, more insidiously) afterwards via opportunism IMO -- but in the end it was still a group of riled up and disaffected youths who were ransacking Thai businesses, while the police stood around, not sure what to do.

A few travelers were affected, especially those whose passports had been submitted to the Thai embassy for visas and were subsequently lost / burned. Guests at the former Royal Phnom Penh Hotel (not the same as Raffles Le Royal) may have lost some of their possessions.

In short: Shameful (on the part of the government), yes; major political risk, no. Likelihood of happening again: my guess is very, very low. (I would put a higher odds on a repeat in the next few years of Bangkok 1992.)

- Michael

I would not recommend Japan or China as a first destination in Asia, save for Hong Kong/Macau.

Japan is quite expensive--not as bad as I had feared or some people make it out to be, but it's certainly not a budget destination. Infrastructure for moving around the country is fantastic (worth seeing in itself, actually), and there are countless cities, rural spots, and cultural destinations worth a visit. But Japan is not an especially tourist-friendly country. If you're an experienced traveler (especially if you're experienced in Asia) and can work around the occasional frustrations, you'll be fine. If not, and assuming you won't be with a local, you might find more work than enjoyment. I love Japan, but I didn't feel ready to tackle it--on price or foreignness--until I had a good bit of experience with other Asian destinations.

Mainland China is not as expensive as Japan, although with the appreciation of the yuan, it's not getting any cheaper either. The challenge in China is the lack of facilities for tourists. Beijing was do-able, but it wasn't completely tourist-friendly. Not like HK, Singapore, Thailand. On my visit four years ago, Vietnam was also really lacking in tourist-ready facilities. It may have improved since, though.

I would just echo what others have said about checking award availability before deciding. Thailand has become quite expensive within the last year or so. Mostly due to the strengtning of the Thai baht, about 32 to the $US versus 40 or so last year. Also the merchants and hotels seem to be testing the tourists to see just how much they will stand. The hotel I always stay at has raised prices about 30% and a beer in a bar has risen about the same. If you decide on Thailand I suggest you go to Phuket or Hua Hin after two or three days in Bangkok. Not as hectic and cheaper. I would not suggest Cambodia as a first trip to Asia. Maybe next trip. The infrastructure is not as developed as other asian countries. If you are interested in beaches, you may want to consider the Philippine Islands. Thousands of islands to choose from, and not very expensive. Getting around in the Philippines by air is VERY cheap.
Wherever you decide to go be aware that asia is full of scam artists. Usually not dangerous but you can be taken for a lot of money if you aren't careful.
I think an investment in a Lonely Planet travel guide covering the country that you decide on would be money well spent.
Dave

While you are already in BKK, consider taking a flight to Siem Reap to visit Angkor Wat. It is a rather inexpensive place to visit. There are many budget hotels and the one we found, a home stay with a family who converted their home to a B&B was such a great place for only $25/night/room (year 2003) with breakfast, and for another $5, we had home cooked dinner! If you decide to go, PM me and I'll send you the contact info of this place.

Northern Pakistan. Fly into Islamabad and trek north towards Gilgit and Himalayan range. If you have time book with a group to take up along the Kharakorum Highway into China.

Northern Pakistan. Fly into Islamabad and trek north towards Gilgit and Himalayan range. If you have time book with a group to take up along the Kharakorum Highway into China.

Yea. I hear Kashmir is also worth visiting for a first time traveler. Baghdad also scores highly in this regard.

Depending on which partner miles you use, you can fly Eva Airlines, Northwest Airlines, or the Taiwanese airline China Airlines into Taipei (or Kaohshiong).

For big city stuff like nightmarkets, shopping districts, diversity of food, nightclubs, cultural venues, Taipei is a good bet. Go to Chiang Kai Shek / Democracy (whatever the name is now) Memorial for your normal grand view, Taipei 101 for a really tall view, and you cannot miss the National Palace Museum (newly renovated) which is the largest collection of ancient Chinese artifacts preserved from destruction.

Take a train or bus to visit small towns. Public buses / trains will also get you to the beautiful coastlines or mountain ranges - if you're in Taipei, really close by is Yangmingshan (yang ming mountain) National Park and famous flower gardens. For the adventurous, try the steep curving mountain roads on the east coast of the country, or take a flight/ferry to the outlying islands to see former military bunkers defending against China. There's quite a lot to do in Taiwan, and the best part is, it's pretty safe compared to most of Asia and still cheap too.

My personal experience, Taiwan (major cities like Taipei, Taichung, Kaohsiung) is some kind of warm and friendly cities then other Asia Cities, you always can find wild range of food and lifestyle selections for you.

http://www.welcome2taiwan.net

For major SkyTeam airlines members, you may choose Delta or NW or KLM to/from Taiwan or connecting to other asis cities. China Airlines with mileage partnership with NW and Delta so you may keep earning miles by taking CI's flights and credit to your NW/Delta account.

dont forget the mongolian BBQ in Taipei as well

Unforunately, I would not recommend Taiwan, at least not Taipei. It was not a particularly pleasant city, was on the dirty side, not very well organized/easy to navigate. The food, which I was led to believe would be a high point, was disappointing (save for some delicious soup dumplings). The city didn't have much to do for visitors. CKS Memorial Hall was interesting for an hour, but the exhibits weren't really much of a museum and didn't cover much of Chiang's and the KMT's building of modern Taiwan. The National Palace Museum was worth a visit whilst in Taiwan, for sure, but probably not worth visiting Taiwan just to go see. Taipei 101 was cool, but not much more than that. The markets and shopping districts weren't as interesting as I was hoping, although the orchids on display at the Flower Market were amazing.

dont trust what megatoplover says, you can have a ball in Taipei way more than singapore or Hong Kong or KL, just make a list of what you want and go for it, by the way the national museum take at least 2 full days to see and Daishun is great at sunset and only 15 min train ride from Taipei

Taiwan outside the cities is beautiful, but if you venture even a bit off the beaten track (which is pretty thin!), it's not just set up for the non-Chinese speaker. I found getting around the back blocks (http://extra.wikitravel.org/blog/jani/tall_taiwan_tales_index) a bit challenging and I can read Chinese characters (albeit of the Japanese variety), it won't be any easier if you don't...

For a first-time tourist to Asia, I would definitely recommend Thailand - Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket or Samui or Ko Chang (or Ko Samet if you're on a really tight budget). That gives you city and mountains and beach, modern and traditional, and travel between the various locations isn't that expensive. Accommodations and food can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you want. If you can afford the time (about 3 days) and/or money, Siem Reap (Angkor Wat) is a most worthwhile sidetrip.