Asia - Tipping in Asia - Housekeeping Staff

It seems that a significant number of Americans are only too eager to export this "noble" habit to Asia whereby its not customary to tip the maids.

While its not uncommon to tip wait staff, bellboys or even taxi drivers; tipping housekeeping staff is almost unheard of amongst locals apart from those working in hotels popular with Americans.

My view is that Americans should not spread this "disease" beyond their shores but I am sure many would disagree since we have already accepted their Starbucks and McDonalds as part of our daily lives, why not go all the way and tip like them !

What are you views :)

Hi,

I totally AGREE 101%!. I have seen several episodes where I think that spreading this "American" culture is really one of the worst thing to do. I am not trying to be cheap, but I think tipping is really necessary for situations where service has been great and out of the necessary duties of the person/staff.

I really get very irritated when I see this happening. I think that Americans must just learn to adapt to this when they are out of America. I think it is bad enough that tips is expected and compulsory back in America no matter how bad the service is, but please, keep this within the borders.

Just my 2cents...and I am not trying to offend anyone here.. ;)

:)

I agree.

I agree. I also think that tipping where it is not customary is condescending and insulting. And tipping at Starbucks???? How the hell did this catch on???? :confused::confused:

It seems that a significant number of Americans are only too eager to export this "noble" habit to Asia whereby its not customary to tip the maids.

Curious where you're getting your data. I don't tip housekeeping staff anywhere, nor do I know anyone who does.

Only time I might consider it is if someone did something beyond the call of duty.

We had a poll several years ago on these boards. Less than 40% of respondents reported tipping for housekeeping.

Generally, tipping is only expected (demanded) for waiters and bartenders, and only within the US.

I live in the U.S. and I absolutely agree with the posters here that the tipping practice in American is ridiculous. Instead of tipping only for extraordinarily good service, it has become tipping all the time unless it's extraordinarily bad. However, I would put some of the blame on American travel guides. I have read numerous guides for Asia that tells their readers to leave the equivalent of $1 to $2 per day for housekeeping staff.

Count me as another in agreement: not expected and not a good practice.

It seems that a significant number of Americans are only too eager to export this "noble" habit to Asia whereby its not customary to tip the maids.

Do a "significant number of Americans" really do this in Asia? Even in the US, it is not customary nor expected to tip housekeeping. I for one have not done so in 18 years of business travel. I don't do it even though I can expense it - it is a matter of principle. The only place in the US where it is customary to tip housekeeping is on a cruise ship (I don't understand this myself).

If someone wants to tip, go ahead, it's their money. It's not going to sway Asia much because I think that Americans are under-represented anyways in numbers of tourists to Asia. What I don't like are people who proselytize tipping (or their way of life) when they venture to foreign shores. That, unfortunately, is something that I can agree that Americans seem accustomed to doing.

OK, I'm buying into the fact that tipping is a bad thing. But I do travel frequently in Asia with a charitable organization and I think we Westerners tend to look at the people who are taking care of us and keenly feeling how little they are living on compared to us and want to give them something. We feel that people tend to take them for granted. If tipping is not really appreciated, how can we best show that we notice and appreciate their work? One friend brings little gifts like candy etc and gifts that. Is that a good thing or about as bad as a tip? Say for a housekeeper in Thailand or Vietnam who does a great job on your room for a week long hotel stay for instance? What do you recommend would be best way to acknowledge appreciation?

Curious where you're getting your data.

No I dont go around asking every american whether they tip the maid. However my observation on FT seems to indicate its more widespread than I had originally thought. I am not only referring to the recent Conrad BKK thread but numerous other threads on FT. What really surprises me is that those affirming such practice are not the once a year vacationer going abroad for the first time type, but they are well travelled and highly respected FT members.

If someone wants to tip, go ahead, it's their money. It's not going to sway Asia much because I think that Americans are under-represented anyways in numbers of tourists to Asia.

Firstly I dont agree American visitors are under represented in Asia; it depends very much on the location. There may be hardly any American visitor in places like Burma, but their numbers in places like Bangkok or Singapore would easily outnumber many other nationalities.

Stereotypes are formed whenever people of a certain nationality behaved in certain ways. I was at the taxi stand infront of a mall popular with the American community here in KL. The first taxi inline refused to drive with the excuse that he was waiting for "someone". This driver knew that at best he would get a ringgit or two in tips from me, while the "someone" would probably tip him ten, twenty or even fifty ringgit (USD15) if that "someone" is american. Even taxi drivers in KL know Americans are BIG tippers !

OK, I'm buying into the fact that tipping is a bad thing. But I do travel frequently in Asia with a charitable organization and I think we Westerners tend to look at the people who are taking care of us and keenly feeling how little they are living on compared to us and want to give them something. We feel that people tend to take them for granted. If tipping is not really appreciated, how can we best show that we notice and appreciate their work? One friend brings little gifts like candy etc and gifts that. Is that a good thing or about as bad as a tip? Say for a housekeeper in Thailand or Vietnam who does a great job on your room for a week long hotel stay for instance? What do you recommend would be best way to acknowledge appreciation?

Many of the hotels that I go to in Asia seem to be putting notices in people's rooms that tipping is not customary and that people who choose to tip can leave an envelope at the front, where the proceeds will be divided among the staff. I've always found this to be a nice compromise for those who cannot avoid tipping.

Mike

Say for a housekeeper in Thailand or Vietnam who does a great job on your room for a week long hotel stay for instance? What do you recommend would be best way to acknowledge appreciation?

Most hotels in Asia include a service charge of between 5-15% in your room rate. While I am not sure the exact formula they use for each employee's entitlement, you are effectively rewarding the maid merely by staying there.

Unlike other professions like a spa therapist (where your experience depends very much on the effort of the therapist), I have never come across an "exceptional" housekeeper. Its expected of them to change the linens, vacuum the carpet, wash the cups etc The only instances when I noticed some had taken an extra effort was when they arranged my toiletries neatly on a fresh clean towel or when they refolded my pyjamas neatly, but that small effort doesnt warrant a tip IMO.

While I dont tip the maids, I do try to be considerate and I do try to make their job easier and more pleasant. I usually do a quick tidy up on the room before they come in and I keep dirty clothings out of their sight etc

Cheap Skates!

Puts on flame suit and runs!!! :p Joking.

As a European living in the US, I am very confused by the whole tipping madness. I'm sure I'm guilty of undertipping, as it now seems to be expected to tip the maitre d', tip at Starbucks, etc. Other jobs, which, in my mind are more deserving of a tip (e.g., the guy who washes your car, the guy who pumps your gas) are not supposed to receive tips. I don't know who came up with the tipping standards in the US, but I've decided to tip where I feel appropriate, and be the cheap European elsewhere. Long story short, in the US, I'm more likely to tip the housekeeper than some of the other hotel employees who want my money for whatever minuscule service they provide. (Making up my room > opening a door or calling a cab).

I really enjoy Asian travel, as for a long time, I didn't worry about tipping at all. But thanks to my exposure to some of the excessive tippers here on FT, I now find myself sensing "expectations" in cab drivers, etc. I still mostly resist. I do, however, have to admit that I tipped the housekeeper at a recent stay at a Pool Villa at an Evason property -- the entire stay was relatively disappointing, bad spa, mediocre food, missing "butler," but the housekeeper somehow sensed this and was extremely responsive -- well beyond her job description. I gave her 1000B and told her not to share it with anyone else.

Do a "significant number of Americans" really do this in Asia?

If someone wants to tip, go ahead, it's their money. It's not going to sway Asia much because I think that Americans are under-represented anyways in numbers of tourists to Asia.

The data in this report on international arrivals at BKK in 2006 (http://www.pata.org/patasite/fileadmin/news_pata/International_Tourist_Arrivals_05-06.pdf) would seem to back you up. The number of Americans is small compared to the whole, and if anything, the share as a percentage is dropping.

Why would anyone worry about someone else tipping (or not) anyway? :confused:

The data in this report on international arrivals at BKK in 2006 (http://www.pata.org/patasite/fileadmin/news_pata/International_Tourist_Arrivals_05-06.pdf) would seem to back you up. The number of Americans is small compared to the whole, and if anything, the share as a percentage is dropping.

Interesting data though it excludes the month of December when many Americans go on vacation. However I am surprised the British has surpassed the Americans in terms of tourist arrivals though half a million american visitor each year is not a small number. And the Chinese are now at No.2; if there is going to be a remake of the James Bond movie Man with the Golden Gun, the scene with the fat american tourist by the canal will now probably be replaced by a cropped hair Chinese :p

It is also worth noting that although the top visitor arrival in Bangkok are Japanese and Chinese tourists, most of them are part of organised tour groups and stay mainly in tourist hotels. Walk into the executive lounge at the Conrad and you will find at least half the guests there to be Americans. And if half of these American guests tip housekeeping staff there, you are looking at 25% of all guests at the hotel and its something to be concerned about if this trend continues ....

I am a cropped hair chinese and make my own arrangements and also like to tip. I dont see why you seem think it is such a problem for people who want to tip, I have found it often buys me far superior service and favours over and above the normal cousre.

What is a cropped hair Chinese? Was this a method of punishment during the Cultural Revolution? :confused:

What is a cropped hair Chinese? Was this a method of punishment during the Cultural Revolution? :confused:

My guess is a Chinese guy with spiky short hair:D

I leave a small tip, or sometimes a little gift baggie with some chapstick and a candy in it and a little piece of paper that just says "Thanks for my clean room", to let her know she's not invisible, and her hard work IS appreciated by someone.

Huh... I automatically said her. Anyone ever seen a guy doing housekeeping? I haven't.

Huh... I automatically said her. Anyone ever seen a guy doing housekeeping? I haven't.

I was reflecting on this recently. Then, much to my surprise, at a Hampton Inn in Buffalo last month there was a man cleaning the rooms. (Though I just realised perhaps you mean specifically in Asia).

As for the thread topic, I only tip for services I receive not duties being performed. For example, I won't tip the doorman for hailing a cab, including in the US, but I will tip the cabbie.

At dinner in Shanghai last year, a friend and I left a tip as we thought the waitress showed great effort in serving us. The waitress ran after us to give us the money we had 'forgotten,' so we had to try to explain why we left it.

Huh... I automatically said her. Anyone ever seen a guy doing housekeeping? I haven't.

Yes, especially in Asian countries with large muslim population when sometimes all the "maids" are actually guys (Maldives and Lombok-Indonesia comes to mind). Many places in Asia have both male and female "maids". Outside of Asia, I remember seeing male housekeeping staff in Paris-France and Queenstown-NZ.

What is a cropped hair Chinese? Was this a method of punishment during the Cultural Revolution? :confused:

No, its a method of punishment for englishmen masquerading as chinamen in cyberspace :rolleyes::p

At dinner in Shanghai last year, a friend and I left a tip as we thought the waitress showed great effort in serving us. The waitress ran after us to give us the money we had 'forgotten,' so we had to try to explain why we left it.

So you were in her country but she had to listen to your "explanation" about why she should accept your behaviour...... it seems you didn't get the message.

I think this is the essence of what this thread is about... the despair people feel as people from tipping cultures insist on exporting it.

Huh... I automatically said her. Anyone ever seen a guy doing housekeeping? I haven't.

I've seen both male and female housekeeping staff at Peninsula Bangkok and, IIRC, Peninsula Hong Kong. Chedi Phuket, too, I think. Also, several places that had "personal butlers" tending to us during our stay as often as not had the butlers take care of housekeeping as well as personal needs.

I almost never tip housekeeping staff anywhere. It seems especially unwarranted in most Asian destinations where the hotels impose a compulsory service charge on top of the room rate, which ostensibly goes to cover compensation for the staff (fiddly bookkeeping aside).

I am not sanguine on the practice of some Americans--and it is often Americans, as we live in a heavy-tipping culture--who insist on tipping even when it is discouraged (e.g., Singapore) or even culturally insulting (e.g., Japan, if not done with utmost discretion and cultural sensitivity). The posters, and we've all seen 'em, who ask "But what if I really want to tip the concierge in Tokyo for really great service?" irk me no end. Write a thoughtful note to the GM at the end of your stay praising staff who delivered great service, be it concierge, front-desk, housekeeping, waiters, whatever. It will be greatly appreciated by staff and management alike.

So you were in her country but she had to listen to your "explanation" about why she should accept your behaviour...... it seems you didn't get the message.

I think this is the essence of what this thread is about... the despair people feel as people from tipping cultures insist on exporting it.

Wow, that was harsh and rather presumptuous. My dining companion (and fellow tipper) was Chinese so it wasn't just a case of the "ignorant foreigner" "forcing" my explanation on the "poor hapless local." It was also not a NYC-style 25% tip. It was a few RMB, not out of line with the change one might leave in HK (yes, I am also fully aware that HK does have different history and a different tipping culture than SH).

Plus, I was posting this as the exception to my own rule, definitely not what I normally would do.

Wow, that was harsh
...
I was posting this as the exception to my own rule, definitely not what I normally would do. Plus, this was for excellent service received, which this thread seems to judge as being more acceptable

Apologies... it was a bit harsh!

Still, even if I thought the service was excellent, I wouldn't tip. Service is often excellent in Shanghai (don't go there often) and other parts of SE Asia/Far East I go to. I don't think its necessary to leave extra cash when this happens.

I have a VN friend who loves to tip when in the presence of Americans - he thinks it makes him look big.

Huh... I automatically said her. Anyone ever seen a guy doing housekeeping? I haven't.

Happens in Saigon. Most are female, but often see guys too. I've found VN guys pretty domesticated - they cook and clean well. Someone told me it was because of conscription into the army. Anyway, in a social setting with females around, such skills seem to vanish.

The reason why it is probably not customary to tip in Asia is that there is already at least a 10% service charge already pegged to the restuarant/hotel room bill; or what they often refer to is the +++ !

The reason why it is probably not customary to tip in Asia is that there is already at least a 10% service charge already pegged to the restuarant/hotel room bill; or what they often refer to is the +++ !

I think that's a "westerner's" view. They don't tip because they don't tip. When they go into a restaurant, they expect service to be included. Otherwise it wouldn't be a restaurant!

Generally the kinds of restaurants that locals visit (at least in Taipei and Saigon where I spend most of my time) don't seem to play the +++ game. That's true of my local hotel in Saigon too.

When going to a +++ restaurant in Saigon, my VN friends get annoyed, but will pay. If they go to one without +++, they won't tip.

The +++ thing seems most prevalent in touristy restaurants and hotels.

As it turns out, timely article in USA Today today. On page 6B.

Online:
Tipping Abroad (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-09-10-tipping-abroad_N.htm)

Well on at least one data point their table is wrong. It is simply not normal to tip 10% in addition to a 10% service charge in HK. In smaller restaurants there is no service charge and rounding up is the most that's expected. In restaurants where there is a service charge then nothing more is expected, but up to 5% for very good or, in the extreme case, 10% for really exceptional service can be added (but "really exceptional" means less than 5% of the time).

And 10% in the Philippines would be regarded as quite generous, particularly in smaller or more local places.

yep... seems like a dodgy article to me!

According to her guide, tipping is not practiced in 11 countries ... In most countries, travelers are expected to tip to a waiter or waitress 10%

Rather suggests that tipping 10% is a global standard, bar 11 countries... Ok she only looked at 70 countries...

Business traveler Hershkowitz-Coore gets around her confusion by tipping 20% everywhere — "exactly as I would here, unless the bill states that service is included."

Yep... keep it simple. Let's just pretend we're in the US.

Robert Grimes, who is the chairman of a consulting company, says he angered a taxi driver in the United Kingdom when he rounded off the fare to the next pound. The cabbie thought the tip was too small and threw coins out the window at him

Seems unlikely to me.. certainly not normal behaviour!

"I have absolutely no idea what to tip outside the USA," says professional speaker Sue Hershkowitz-Coore

My "tip" would be for Ms Hershkowitz-Coore to ask whether before she considers what.

Old habits die hard. I guess that I have been part of the problem. I have always tipped including the housekeeper even in Thailand and Vietnam. When this thread started, I thought it was a couple of cheapskates carrying the message. Now, I am beginning to understand that I was wrong. Before I begin a trip, I always read the guidebook section on tipping. This thread and the USA TODAY article seem to suggest that the guidebooks don't know their stuff. I have never had a tip refused but I never dreamed that I could be offending someone. Cut me a little slack, I am being reeducated!

I have never had a tip refused but I never dreamed that I could be offending someone. Cut me a little slack, I am being reeducated!

Ha ha ha! I think we're all friends here....

Its true that most people won't refuse a particular tip. Some won't want to offend, others will just enjoy the cash. Its the "bigger picture" that concerns people. They worry that tips will become expected and tip inflation will kick in. Also others in the establishment may feel jealous - particularly those behind the scenes that don't get near a customer. Often in Asia (terrible generalisation coming on...) there is a greater teamworking spirit than in the competitive west. With tipping, staff may focus more on putting on a good show for the customer individually than co-operating with colleagues to achieve the best result. Then there's the case of other customers who feel a tipper might be obtaining preferential treatment either this time or next time around. If they are sitting in a restaurant and an American tips US$20... what can they do to compete? It might be small money to the American, but too much for the locals.

One restaurant owner I know just sees tipping as interference. The remuneration of his staff is a matter between him and his staff (who are all very well paid by local standards). The staff work for him, and the restaurant as an entity provides a service. Ie its an ownership issue. If customers offer cash to the staff he feels he is losing control. It is often the prettiest girls that get offered the biggest tips and it causes resentment.

I don't go to the US often, but I do "feel" relationships are different there. Difficult to articulate, but its as if the staff are go-betweens. They will suggest a special dish, or offer something not on the menu. Its as if they are making a show of working for me. Illusion or not, the idea seems to be they are on my side in procuring the best possible experience from the restaurant. As a cynical old git, I find this irritating and somewhat fake. But I believe most people there like to think they are getting something special. They tip accordingly and a dynamic is created.

What irks non-tippers in these threads is that few tippers actually defend the system. They claim its a necessary evil in the US, and acknowledge things have "got out of hand". But despite this, some seem to continue, even in the knowledge its not part of a local culture. For this reason I believe there is something about American culture that tacitly enjoys the whole tipping thing, even whilst expressly stating disdain. Anyway, what Americans do in America is up to them. I don't think its the best way to structure a service industry but when I'm there I reluctantly fall in line.

Apologies... it was a bit harsh!

I have a VN friend who loves to tip when in the presence of Americans - he thinks it makes him look big.

Sorry, I had a case of the Mondays and overreacted!

Love the anecdote. I can definitely picture that happening a fair bit more than most westerners would realise.

I once tried to leave a pile of leftover RMB for the housekeeper with a note attached saying "thanks". She took the note and organized the bills in a nice neat pile on my nightstand.

As it turns out, timely article in USA Today today. On page 6B.

Online:
Tipping Abroad (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-09-10-tipping-abroad_N.htm)

Pretty shabby article. I'm guessing the journo guessed 10% when they didn't have a clue. Christep is right about HK. I also lived in Germany for many years where you are generally expected to round up but Germans would not normally add 10%. Interestingly they also split the UK into its constituent parts and then suggested that tipping in Scotland was higher than England and Wales! (as a born and bred Scot I can assure that it ain't). Really, how do these people get jobs?

I once tried to leave a pile of leftover RMB for the housekeeper with a note attached saying "thanks". She took the note and organized the bills in a nice neat pile on my nightstand.

Lets hope that we wont see the day when you get a note in return saying "we prefer new US notes ......"

Much of Asia is still unfamiliar with this "weird" American practice. Please keep it that way .....

If tipping is not really appreciated, how can we best show that we notice and appreciate their work? One friend brings little gifts like candy etc and gifts that. Is that a good thing or about as bad as a tip?
Why not just say thank you in the appropriate language?