MilesBuzz! - Why Upgrade Domestic Flights Anymore?

I live in Dallas and have to fly American since they dominate the area. I fly monthly to Denver, Atlanta, Chicago and Phoenix and only upgrade my seat when my original seat is stuck somewhere in the middle of the plane. First class isn't really what it used to be and I would like to know how many people actually upgrade to first for something other than a better seat location. The choice of yogurt or cold cereal for breakfast really isn't my idea of "first class" service (although, I know the airlines are

I am with you. I don't try to upgrade to 1st class unless it is a 4+ hr flight. Even then, if the plane is not completely full, I would rather have seat next to me vacant rather than sit in a fully loaded 1st class. I do try to get upgraded to BE (on Delta) whenever available.

Two words. Free Booze. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And a few more words:

1. Room to actually work. (Even on UA in Economy+, if there's someone in the middle seat and the person in front reclines, there's no way at 6'1" that I can actually use the laptop.

2. First off the plane. Those extra 10 minutes can be most helpful.

3. Usually no worries about overhead bin space.

4. (Usually) nicer meals.

You are right on the short haul trips, such as DFW-PHX, DFW-DEN, etc. However going transcontinental, which living in DFW you wouldn't really do it pays off.

You might want to upgrade if you are on a 777 say from DFW-ORD, as the 777 is wonderful in business or first class.

I have been on some flights where there is only 2 or 3 other people in first class, and even on a MD-80 that is nicer than back in coach. It is nicer being first off the plane, and it is also nice not getting hit with everyones bags if you sit in the front of coach as the people make their way to the back of the bus.

Domestic short run first class isn't great, but at least on the flights around 1000 miles you might actually get a sandwich or a meal if you are flying at the right time.

You sometimes even sit next to people who are as witty and charming as yourself, something that is a rarity in coach these days. They also tend to know when to end a conversation, also a rarity in coach.

I'm totally with you on this one. Have over 30 electronic upgrades in my AA account but haven't used any in over a year. Using 3 upgrades for DCA-DFW seems like such a waste. I've gotten used to coach on domestic flights- have never been in coach international. The times I've upgraded domestically in the past sould never understand what the big deal is. Could never bring myself to actually buy upgrades domestically, though I understand some do. The times I've sat in domestic F, it seemed such a joke. The least they could do is stop calling it first class- call it business or enhanced economy. It's definately not first class- and I'm not picking on AA- all the domestic carriers are pretty pathethic. These days, it's just basic transportation. Beats Greyhound and Amtrak at least.

As a CO plat who hasn't flown AA in ages, I wonder if MRTC lives up to the billing, as that'd have a competitive leg up if more airlines tried to do what Delta does with its insULT fares (i.e. lock out space-available upgrades entirely to certain fares).

CO and NW sound like they have more generous upgrade policies, but then it's not so much that conditions in first class are great, it's that conditions in coach keep worsening. CO's domestic fleet is increasingly dominated by 737s, including the cramped 737-800. Schedule cuts aim to fill what flights are left even more (i.e. fewer empty middle seats). Then there are the RJs, where upgrades are meaningless. That might get me over to NW next year.

Leg room, free booze, faster off the plane, easier access to the lavoratory, and not having to deal with as many yahoos as in the back.

I upgrade on every flight I can, even those at an hour. Why not?

On Delta I never use all my coupons and throw some away, but even if they cost a little,I would upgrade for:
More legroom
More width
Chance of some kind of decent service
Free drinks
Maybe snacks
More bin space
First off the plane
More aware of what might be happening with delays.
Why not?

As Delta Plat Medallion, upgrades are unlimited on qualifying fares (which I am on 99% of the time). Seats are wider with more pitch, FA's more pleasent, more o/h storage per passenger, quicker getting off plane, etc.
If I had to pay for or use certs from a finite supply to upgrade, I would probably not use them on short flights.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RustyC:
As a CO plat who hasn't flown AA in ages, I wonder if MRTC lives up to the billing, as that'd have a competitive leg up if more airlines tried to do what Delta does with its insULT fares (i.e. lock out space-available upgrades entirely to certain fares).</font>

as a 6'3" NW plat and DL silver who recently began converting to AA, i can tell you that MRTC does live up to the billing. the worst case scenario is survivable, and since i got gold on AA, i've booked tickets on flights with zero available seats on the seatmap--something i'd never do on NW/CO. despite my 100% upgrade record on NW in the last two years, i'm flying coach on AA more and more, because the schedules are better, and the difference between NW F and AA Y isn't enough to send me hours out of my way.

i started my switch to AA because of DL's addition of T class, making it nearly impossible to upgrade there. i was pleasantly surprised, and have seen a lot of my NW flying shift as well.

I only upgrade if the flight is crowded and if I've got some e-certs ready to expire.

If I'm on UAL and have the E+ seats, or American and have the coach seats up front and an aisle seat, I'm good to go.

But I am low maintenance, so others may have different opinions.

I have never upgraded before except in a starwood property which was nice.

On the planes, i have only flown first class twice, which was nice.

never really cared.
I suppose the only real gripes I ever had on a flight involved three minor things, in retrospect:

1) headphone jack failed to work without me holding it a certain way the whole time. But then I happened to have a bandaide in my pouch so I used that to hold it in. Also, headphones had cost $5 per on some AA flights so i brought my own and hid the ear things from site. Fortunatly they have since done away with this fee. Good.

2) seat in front of my was loose a bit so it bounced a bit. I mentioned it so they would maybe fix it for their next trip but was able to move. This happened to me on a few flights and some have been too full to move. Oh well, you get what you pay for and so I lived with that too. I suppose newer planes are better!

3) meals I must admit, are OK and the last United trip I took to Vegas had great chicken lunch. If I think I need something better, I bring my own sandwich. I do that if I fly EasyJet overseas or Southwest here.

I think First class would be nice but even though I fly a lot for leisure, I have not needed the things it gives people. I cant realy sleep on a plane anyway unless I was so tired anyway.

But these are all just my thoughts and my own experiences. I suppose flying first would be nice but the price or policies on upgrades seems rather tough for me to deal with. I just got Gold and Premire on AA and United so maybe I will give it a try but always try to remembe that it is a BONUS and nothing for me to expect unless I pay the fare for it.

My wife flies using segment upgrades for flights under 3 hours. If she doesn't get the upgrade it's not a problem since AA has MRTC and she's not a tall person. If it's over 3 hours we consider using points to upgrade, especially if she gets stuck in a middle seat. Having elite status usually gets her in the front of coach so she isn't concerned about getting off the plane quickly. She doesn't drink so that's not a concern. It's really a matter of her feeling good about being in FC. I usually buy her the upgrades as a birthday or christmas present so when she hits on an upgrade, I earn brownie points http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

ahh yes, being IN or OUT of the dog house!
Yes, wives and other people do like FC for this reason...

Not that women or men are the issue here, but yeah, my wife would sure like to fly FC so for this reason, I will take my chances to get her a nice seat when we can!
thanks for the tip (man, I should have known...automatically!! ha ha)

more reclining (without disturbing the passengers behind me too much) - I sleep when I connect in NorthAmerica after a transatlantic- or transpacific flight.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by phoenixitc:
It's really a matter of her feeling good about being in FC.</font>

Not to pick on your wife, but I've never understood this. I mean, after all, what did you do to get put in first? You burned some miles or you paid for it.

It's not like you actually did something difficult! This really cracks me up, but if you can make your wife happy by putting her in first, more power to you.

No prob., but you know what I mean...some people, namely, my wife and other wives of friends of mine, etc., seem to hold onto this notion of "first class" being something like the princess treatment that you see in the movie Aladdin or something... So be it. (I wish they were totally right!)

If the wives are not as hip to the ways of flying and its rules, restrictions and whatevers, then to make someone happy, I suppose I can burn up an upgrade should I have one lying around. BUT mainly she does not really care... or so she says.

One learns though that when the S.O. says they do not really care, they sometimes do. So, like I said, I might not burn 1000000 miles to get a better seat for one half of the relationship, but if this makes even more good things take place, then why not! I mean she IS worth it all to me after all!

To quote a great man:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by auh2o:
Two words. Free Booze. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

'nuff said.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
Not to pick on your wife, but I've never understood this. I mean, after all, what did you do to get put in first? You burned some miles or you paid for it.

It's not like you actually did something difficult! This really cracks me up, but if you can make your wife happy by putting her in first, more power to you.</font>

Ahh...it's those little things in life that make life nicer http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif True, it's not difficult to buy her the credits and working really hard to get her on the list ( http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif ), it's the mere fact that what little I had to do made her happy.



[This message has been edited by phoenixitc (edited 11-12-2002).]

hey now, I am doing just fine by my wife, but YOU KNOW what I mean, right?
It is good to do the extras.
As for me, I said I have yet to even use an upgrade AND my wife and I have been low maintanance anyhow in our flying.

But time keeps a changin...
...children get older and I'm getting older too...

maybe we/she deserves a bit of class treatment once and a while, but we have not been in FC to notice or care yet...

As only a lowly silver on NW, I still appreciate every upgrade I get. Probably the biggest reason is that I am 6'4" tall. I would not say I am fat as my sholders are still quite a bit wider than my stomach. This is just a matter of having some space. I find it almost impossible to use my laptop in NW coach especially if the person in front reclines their seat in the least. I also do not have enough leg room to slouch down to get the back of my head to rest properly against the seat to nap. Also my sholders are 21" across, hmm wonder what would happen if 3 guys like me were side-by-side in NW's 17" +- coach seats? Luckily I usually fly with my wife who is very thin and is willing to share some sholder space with me :-).

I upgrade because I can and it doesn't cost me a darn mile or cent.

What...I'm supposed to let those free upgrades go to waste?

Not this puppy! As long as they are offering me a bigger seat and better service and amenities for free, who am I to say no?

Now, if the only way to upgrade were to have to use your miles...well...that might be another story.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man:
No prob., but you know what I mean...some people, namely, my wife and other wives of friends of mine, etc., seem to hold onto this notion of "first class" being something like the princess treatment that you see in the movie Aladdin or something... So be it. (I wish they were totally right!)</font>

Hey, whatever works. If it makes your wife happy, from what I hear, that is priceless so go ahead and do it!

See ya!

AA flyer:

1) Legroom, wider seat

2) Best flight attendants of any major IMHO

3) Decent, if not good sometimes, food

4) First on/off

For me, Seat width is everything (and seat pitch is everything else)! All other First Class amenities are peripheral benefits. I have connected even on relatively short trips (e.g. RDU-BOS, RDU-BWI, RDU-ATL) in order to upgrade rather than be stuck in a coach seat on a non-stop. I CAN (barely) put up with the width of a coach seat, and I have often enough, but it is RATHER uncomfortable for me, while a First Class seat is usually wide enough to be comfortable.

I upgrade for Food and Booze on anything more than 1,500 miles.

Doubly true when scheduling doesn't allow you time in the airport. For example, coming back HNL-SFO-BOS on the redeye, the flight takes off at 2:10pm and I get 45 minutes to transfer in SFO at past 9pm. Sitting in coach means an inedible dinner and paying for drinks.

Definitely a time to whip out the upgrade.

For anything less than a US domestic transcon, I totally agree. It's just not worth it. The only time I've burned miles on a short hop has been on the Sh*ttle SFO&lt;-&gt;LAS because it was *SUCH* a cattle-car.

Other than that I upgrade only on widebody transcons over overnights.

JD

DL -- Maker's Mark, although it's meaning less and less.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ShortyDog:
Why Upgrade Domestic Flights Anymore? </font>

Because they're unlimited and free for me on US and CO.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CPRich:
Because they're unlimited and free for me on US and CO.</font>

It seems that a lot of you who replied have unlimited upgrades. Sure I will upgrade too in that case. But I have to upgrade using miles or MSUs. In general I have noticed people saying that it is rare to run out of MSUs. But I fly mostly ATL-SFO (4000+ miles RT) and it takes me 2+ round trips to earn four 800 miles MSU and I need six of them to upgade one RT. So I must be missing something or most people don't take longer flights like I do or they are already PMs.

three words: free Crown Royal

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by greg:
I'm totally with you on this one. Have over 30 electronic upgrades in my AA account but haven't used any in over a year. Using 3 upgrades for DCA-DFW seems like such a waste. I've gotten used to coach on domestic flights- have never been in coach international. The times I've upgraded domestically in the past sould never understand what the big deal is. Could never bring myself to actually buy upgrades domestically, though I understand some do. The times I've sat in domestic F, it seemed such a joke. The least they could do is stop calling it first class- call it business or enhanced economy. It's definately not first class- and I'm not picking on AA- all the domestic carriers are pretty pathethic. These days, it's just basic transportation. Beats Greyhound and Amtrak at least. </font>

I have a whole lotta upgrades in my AA account yet I fly LAX-SJC-LAX so there is no reason for me to burn an upgrade on a 45 minnute flight. With AA's MRTC, I will only burn an upgrade on overnight transcons or on a dinner flight where I am tired and probably won't have a chance to grab something to eat before heading to the airport.

At least they don't ever expire. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FC has one major benefit that we all can utilize: We get off the planes first and have a much better chsnce of making a tight connection than the pax in row 27,28, etc.

Good Luck!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jrd:
It seems that a lot of you who replied have unlimited upgrades. Sure I will upgrade too in that case. But I have to upgrade using miles or MSUs. In general I have noticed people saying that it is rare to run out of MSUs. But I fly mostly ATL-SFO (4000+ miles RT) and it takes me 2+ round trips to earn four 800 miles MSU and I need six of them to upgade one RT. So I must be missing something or most people don't take longer flights like I do or they are already PMs.</font>


Of course, on DL one must purchase a higher upgradeable fare in order to upgrade regardless of elite status. The differences used to be almost inconsequential, but the upgradeable fares are now often much higher than the cheapest discount fares.

I don't upgrade my tix, CO does. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

I am back in because my short trip was canceled, but hey, maybe they will give me the miles anyhow!
ha ha
well, I can use the ticket later.
As for upgrades, I found I WOULD have gotten one!
Oh well, maybe next flight.
I guess it would be nice to have CO or whatever airline just sort of do that and give ya one on their own!

good on ya, mate! glad they did.

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If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ctuttle:
You sometimes even sit next to people who are as witty and charming as yourself, something that is a rarity in coach these days. They also tend to know when to end a conversation, also a rarity in coach.</font>

That's hot and cold.

I tend to meet some interesting people and have good conversations when traveling alone, and I would have to say that I've definitely done better in first than in coach.

On the other hand, not many people my age fly first or hang out in the lounge, so that's kind of a disappointment.

I've been thinking that I should start hanging around the gate area and upgrading young, interesting people to sit in first with me. Not that I have anything against older businesspeople, but it's nice to sit with your peers too.

d

Since my primary residence (CLE) is so close
to major hubs, F isn't even an option anymore, as RJs are the equipment of choice for US, NW,DL,AA,UA.

Besides the free booze (which is more practical on longer flights, not the 24 minute hops to hubs, domestic F has lost any cache for me. I can just as easily sit in 4C in Y to get off plane quick; can board first using elite status.

Intl. C/F is where the benefits really kick in.

Howdy,

I've gotten enough stickers and miles to upgrade pretty much anytime, so here my general guidelines on when I upgrade.

1. Am I traveling with my family? If yes - then I upgrade. (I almost never travel with me, I travel weekly on business, family trips are only 4-5 times a year generally. And when I travel with family, most of the time it's award tickets in F. (By the way - yes I do like to give my family a nice plane ride as well as a trip. So with them - I always sit in F if I can)).

2. Is the flight over 1 hour in length - if no - then I never upgrade. Not worth 1 sticker to me for a trip that short. I'm not tall, so even stuck in the middle seat on an MD80 for under an hour is no big deal. Play a few CD's on the PDA with my noise canceling headset while I'm blasting aliens or jotting down a few quick email replies and we're back on the ground.

3. Can I get three seats across? If yes - then I won't upgrade. 3 seats across and I can lie down flat and sleep, or spread out a nice lunch or work or whatever - beats first hands down in my opionon.

4. Can I get a blocked seat next to me? If yes - and if the flight is under 3 hours, then generally I wouldn't upgrade. Again - with a window seat and blocked middle - it's easy for me to sleep, work, etc... I am very comfortable this way. On the drinks - it's rare that I drink and if I do - one beer or bloody mary is enough for me.

5. Flight over an hour and no blocked seat next to me? Then I generally upgrade. In fact, I think I always have.

6. Flight over 3 hours - and not three across - then it depends on my mood. Sometimes I hit the upgrade, sometimes not. May depend a bit on equipment here - where can I sleep easier, etc...

As far as food, if I'm hungry - I will generally get food to go from airport resturant (Legal seafood in Boston will back you one heck of a nice lunch - beats anything in first ever).

So generally, I'll spend a few bucks on a good lunch/dinner so the food is never an upgrade issue for me. Once in a while I've had 2-3 drinks, coming home from a job - but even then - a sticker is worth around $20 to me, and 2 drinks are less. So I'll pay for the booze in coach. Again - free booze isn't much of a motivator.

But - show me a full plane, and a 2 hour + trip - and you'll see me in first.

I am also a bit lucky - I think my upgrade requests have always cleared.

Just my two cents.

Keep the faith,

Pakse

(I was surprised to see 8+ folks sitting in F BOS-ORD on Friday, when in coach - there were quite a few empty 3 seat rows. I don't think they served a meal on this one, I of course had crab cakes, a lobster roll, a shrimp cocktail and a couple of beers for lunch - in my three seats across, then I took a took a nap http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

I usually upgrade most flights at the end of the work week. I fly domestic based in Denver. The reason for upgrade is primarily space. I am able to complete my paperwork before I get home so I can spend more time with my family. I do not upgrade for meals, alcohol or other perks. For me, it's the space. I also try to upgrade when the back of the bus is full and I am stuck with a middle seat. UA is very stingy with comp upgrades although I have been upgraded when coach is sold out and there are upgrades available in F or B class. However, it is rare that upgrade space is available and UA will always fly employees in F or B before upgrading one of their best flyers. I have seen this practice too many times. That is a sad situation.

This is one of the top reasons I'm a big fan of AA: I no longer have to obsess about upgrading. MRTC is acceptable, and I'm 6'3".

I'm both Platinum and PremEx (although not for much longer), but on UA I still always obsessed about the seat assignment, equipment type, etc. Sometimes the agent on the phone would say "You're in 12D - that's E+" and then I board the plane and E+ stops at row 10. On AA I can always pick my seat online, and there is no mystery about what kind of seat I will get in coach: they are all fairly good.

I still upgrade widebodies on domestic flights. The number of widebodies I fly per year about eats up the number of upgrades I earn per year. (Of course, I used to redeposit the earned ones and use purchased ones, but that's another story.) To me, the business class seat and the longer flight is worth it.

Getting off the plane first is nice, but not a big deal. I've never had an agent hold the door open for my connection, only to close it on the coach passengers running through the airport behind me. Likewise, I've never been in seat 21B and missed a connection by two seconds. If I have misconnected, everybody on my flight has been in the same boat - seat assignment didn't matter one bit.

On AA...

0-700 miles: Only to avoid a middle seat

701-900 miles depends on the plane:
F100: To avoid a middle seat
MD80: To avoid a middle or non-exit window
737/757: If I don't have an exit aisle

900-1050 miles - always upgrade except F100

1051+ miles for work - always upgrade
1051+ miles for play - depends on equipment, expected load, and most importantly likelihood of a ground stop.

On UA (new, most of my segments will be less than 750 miles):
1. If I can get E+ aisle at reservation, I'm not upgrading.
2. If I cannot get E+ at reservation, and American has MRTC, I'm flying American.
3. If I'm stuck with E- and American is an Eagle flight, then I'll consider upgrading.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RobotDoctor:
...UA will always fly employees in F or B before upgrading one of their best flyers. I have seen this practice too many times. That is a sad situation.</font>

The last time I took a UA flight was approximately 9 years ago about the time they introduced the 1K program. I abandoned UA for the same reason you state above.

I had about 950,000+ actual miles with UA, was a Premier Executive and would have reached 1K status in another few weeks based upon my travel history. The reason I abandoned UA was that I paid a full Business class fare for a RT SEA-SEL flight connecting in SFO. Since there were no FC seats on the domestic SEA-SFO leg when I made the reservation two days before the trip I opted to sit in coach and had them priority waitlist me for FC. I was told that I'd be the first to get FC if any opened up as I had paid a full business fare and that business class fares are entitled to FC on domestic 2 class service flights. At the gate there was a noshow in FC and the gate agent upgraded a non-rev vacationing UA employee for the SEA-SFO segment (overheard from their conversation at the boarding gate) and I ended up in coach paying a business fare. I explained in a very polite manner to the gate agent about my business class fare and the fact that UA accomodates Business fare passengers in FC but that did not get me anywhere. I then told the agent that I'd discontinue using UA for future flights if I did not get that seat. I never did get taht seat and that was the last time I ever set foot on UA property.

I've logged perhaps over 2 million miles since then on AA and DL and all in FC and business class. I will not fly them ever even if they provide free upgrades to me. For flights to the far East where DL & AA have poor coverage I fly other carriers but never UA.

Like you on numerous occasions I'd see UA upgrade passengers who are on award tickets, UA employess, friends of UA employees, etc., ahead of me as a Prem Exec. I'd have reached 1K status, reached a million miles in a couple of weeks, and become lifetime Prem Exec but I figured that it was not worth it on UA.