MilesBuzz! - Amtrak Mileage Alert!!!

I know this belongs in the Amtrak forum but some very important transfer changes have been made to the Amtrak program, anyone who belongs should immediately be made aware of! I as a matter of routine do not go this forum and was astounded to learn what is happening! Amtrak has changed the transfer limit of any participating program to a maximum 25,000 points per calendar year. It is still possible to transfer as many points as you want into the program, it is just getting the points out that is now the problem. If you use a Amtrak Visa, for major purchases; start planning some train travel!

My brother (acting on my advise unfortunately) transferred 200,000 miles from Continental to Amtrak with the intention of moving the points to United. I had made a very similar transfer several months ago and was able to move the miles to United. This was permitted and I was allowed to do the transfer by the rules of the program.

My brother requested a transfer in October from Continental to Amtrak and the transaction was just recently completed. When he tried to transfer his points to United, he was informed: starting November 1st, Amtrak was limiting ALL transfers to 25,000 points per year. It will now take him eight years to transfer all the points he put in the program out. This limitation was arbitrarily imposed and done without any warning.

I only post this to warn others of the new limitation and there is more discussion, (I found out too late) in the Amtrak forum. Be aware!


[This message has been edited by cy-gone (edited 11-11-2002).]

Thanks Cy-gone for the info and for posting it here. I don't go to the Amtrak forum very often and would have found out too late.

ooohhh-- you saved me!
was just gonna do that too!
BUT the saving grace is that at least you can still get SOME transferred over! Ouch though, huh?

Firstly, though I am new, I think all these topics are so related that there shoudl be one forum, but that's just me. Besised, I am new so I am in no position to say it yet.

BUT for this one, I think you may be ok since i THINK you can still fly on CO awards on Delta, another partner (maybe) and with United awards, you can also book some flights on Delta. Thus, you can fly Delta maybe for all things if that helps!

(although the code share restrictions on partners can hurt certain flight plans when using combined partners)

For those who haven't done any transfers yet, you can still get 50,000 out pretty quickly, because as mentioned the limit is calendar year.

And for those who actually ride Amtrak, the limit per year is 50,000 for Amtrak Select members.

Still, not a very "nice" move on Amtrak's part, even though I assume they reserved the right to change program rules at any time without notice.

[This message has been edited by landspeed (edited 11-11-2002).]

Could you clarify please. It the limit 25,000 points per year out of the Amtrak account or is it 25,000 points to each of Delta, United, Continental & Hilton for a total of 100,000 out?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by clanson:
Could you clarify please. It the limit 25,000 points per year out of the Amtrak account or is it 25,000 points to each of Delta, United, Continental & Hilton for a total of 100,000 out?</font>
According to section D-10, (http://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/docs/Ts_and_Cs.cfm?CFID=1168270&CFTOKEN=33259692) it appears the limit is 25K/50K total.

If you happened to be one of the "lucky ones" caught mid transfer some info. that may be helpful... The person with Amtrak that is ultimately responsible for the decision to implement this limit with no notice is:
Gayle Reisman
Amtrak Guest Rewards
P.O.Box 1762
Minn., MN 55440

A couple flying Web sites and people who write their columns come to mind here:

http://www.zyworld.com/brancatelli/branc.htm

(By: JoeBrancatelli &lt;joebrancatelli@topica.email-publisher.com&gt; )

ELLIOTT'S E-MAIL
http://www.elliott.org

(Chris Elliott)

The Frequent Flier Crier
Tim Winship
www.frequentflier.com (http://www.frequentflier.com)

Smarterliving.com

and a few others I cannot recall at this minute.

These all should be made aware of your findings on the fact that Amtrak has chosen to give LITTLE OR NO notice to such changes!

Surely that is against the "ethics" of mile programs!

While they SAY they can change at any time, they mostly give at least 6 months to give people a chance to do a transition. Sounds like you gotta scramble to get anywhere now!

Tell these site managers about it please. You know the facts, but I do not.

hope this helps. I do not intend to downplay or highlight any site in particular--they are all good, but they are far better at this stuff than I and can spread the word to possibly even help prevent the problem!!!

AMTRAK really pulled a fast-one! No notice=fraud. What a deceptive and unfair trade practice. I smell class-action!!

Also threads about this in the OnePass forum, since CO was the program that could transfer miles TO Amtrak.

Was lucky to transfer my last mileage batch FROM Amtrak to UA on 10/28.

Doing this with no notice really stinks.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for one sec....

What is wrong with Amtrak getting tired of people using their program as a way to launder miles earned through other means. I can see people who have earned all of their points by traveling on Amtrak being upset, but for those who just use them to launder their miles from other programs, I can't see those people having a right to be indignant over the fact that Amtrak no longer desires to provide this free service.

In principle there is no reason why Amtrak cannot get bored with us doing transfers - JUST TELL US IN ADVANCE THAT YOU'RE CHANGING THE RULES.

I had previously transferred about 30,000 points to my UA MP account before the new rules were announced. Can I still transfer any more this year? I realize that they can't take away what I have already transferred, but will the previously transferred miles now count toward my annual limit and prevent me from transferring any more until 2003?

I made transfers before November 1st which exceeded 25,000 miles. Now have 10,000 points from recent credit card transactions. I tried to transfer to United last week and was told I had reached yearly limit.

It is calendar year so I only have to wait till January, but I will be severely curtailing my spending with Amtrak Master Card.

hence my thoughts mentioned in other posts about trying to ZERO out some accts, bring them up to award level, use my awards and get out fast!
things change too much, but I know that most of the FFPs and other points programs AT LEAST give some decent notice.

Anyone tell the columnists yet? I will too.

------------------
If speed is not your thing, distance may as well be. Enjoy and embrace it all!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marathon Man:

things change too much, but I know that most of the FFPs and other points programs AT LEAST give some decent notice.
</font>

What about GoldPoints/Radisson? Can never forget that one!

...and we wonder whether it is ethical to KEEP some stray miles that may find their ways into our accounts?...

not to bring up a recent subject, but...

cygone - - Thank you for your generosity. You've been very thoughtful in your attempt to save others. Hope good things come your way!

yeah I second that. I do owe you one for being the one to basically warn me NOT to do the transfer!

thanks and I hope something comes back to you for it too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by we2sparks:
I'm going to play devil's advocate here for one sec....

What is wrong with Amtrak getting tired of people using their program as a way to launder miles earned through other means. I can see people who have earned all of their points by traveling on Amtrak being upset, but for those who just use them to launder their miles from other programs, I can't see those people having a right to be indignant over the fact that Amtrak no longer desires to provide this free service.</font>

we2sparks, I agree with you on this one. The 2-way transfer between Continental and Amtrak was not designed to be a laundering scheme to begin with. People just happened to exploite the loop-hole to death. (On other threads there're people boasting transfer of 200000 miles or more.) Amtrak's CSR's must be getting tired of the extra work. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

On the other hand, this is not the worst that could have happened neither... Those who transferred recently should be aware that both Amtrak and UAL are in serious financial trouble and should have thought thrice before initiating the transfer. Now at least, your miles are still there (as long as Amtrak remains solvent.)

One other thought, if Amtrak just wants to shut down the scheme, I think they should allow undoing the CO---&gt;Amtrak transfer for those who got caught mid-way. Try contact them and keep you finger crossed. Good luck folks.

1. I agree with the thought this really wasn't a scheme that benefitted Amtrak in many ways but ...it did make alot of people very aware of an otherwisw sleeper program.
2. Changing without notice is unethical. It's one thing to give 30 days notice so noone is caught midstream, but no notice was underhanded.
3. I have contacted Amtrak at the above address via fax, but as of yet no reply.
4. The press should be contacted but a few more details should be known..are they going to make exceptions or extensions ie; gold points 30 day extension...were they really aware of what a sore taste they are leaving with at least the flyer talk public pulling this...and are they going to count previous transfers as the 25,000 pt. yearly limit. (I was told no. Nov. 1 started a clean slate for all).
This certainly wasn't a customer service oriented move. For those concerned about UA's solvency has the thought of moving the miles on to DC occurred to you?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">On the other hand, this is not the worst that could have happened neither... Those who transferred recently should be aware that both Amtrak and UAL are in serious financial trouble and should have thought thrice before initiating the transfer. Now at least, your miles are still there (as long as Amtrak remains solvent.)</font>Except that my AwardGuard would have covered the demise of either the CO OnePass program (where my mile came from) or the UA Mileage Plus program (where the miles were intended to go), but NOT Amtrak Guest Rewards (where my miles are trapped mid-transfer). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif