Hilton HHonors - Must Now Have All Points in Hilton HHonors Account Before Booking Reward Reservation

I just found out today from two different phone calls that effective a few days ago, Hilton Honors has changed their reward policy. You can no longer reserve award nights without first having the all the points necessary in your account. In the past you were able to reserve an award without all of the points and as long as you accumulated them by the time you needed the award you were fine. This was always a great benefit and one that caused me to go out of my way to stay at Hilton Hotels. I expressed my dissapointment that Diamond VIPS such as myself were not notified and they replied they are just telling customers when they call in. Their guest assistance people didn't know anything about it. To register a complaint in writing they gave the following address:

755 Crossover Lane
Memphis Tennessee 38117

Bummer. Thanks for the heads up.

Wow. I normally stay at Starwood with Hilton as a second choice due to this policy and the ability to transfer from many other programs into Hilton. With this change, it makes me rethink having any loyalty to Hilton...

I have mostly used it to temporarily hold rooms while I try and assemble an itinerary to maximize free nights. Lately, my trips have been to places with few hiltons so my points are gathering dust.

That's a bummer that they took away this feature. Although in my memory I've only used it once but still the flexibility is what we need for those "rainy" days

Seems like I got in just ahead of the change. I managed it about 10 days ago.

It is a major benefit downgrade IMHO.

I certainly will NOT consider Hilton as my choice of hotel now! it certainly was a fabulous perk that I did appreciate and certainly did not abuse!:(
Hyatt still does hold reservations for Diamond members without the points in the account and I will take that into consideration especially that I dont ahve to stay till 2009 to keep my status!:cool:

Color me as someone who didn't know this feature existed. I guess I won't miss what I never knew I had.

This got me my second GLONP2 stay for my current trip - literally getting the remaining points on a stay just before. It's a shame to see it go (although I still think Hilton has a very good program, and I've always been treated well by it).

-simon

Color me as someone who didn't know this feature existed. I guess I won't miss what I never knew I had.

Moi aussi...

Hilton isn't my 1st choice of hotel chains and I'm definitely not the most knowledgable about the ins/outs of Hiltons program. But I do know a little about Marriott and they do allow this nice feature and I make use of it quite often as it is very helpful in getting an award reservation if I see one available at a possible future vacation time.

With that said, for a Diamond, I wouldn't have thought this benefit would be a big issue. Doesn't Hilton 'force' award availability for a Diamond even if there isn't any available to others? If so, then just wait until you have the points and then make the reservation at that time. No harm done. Now I could see a possible issue with persons who aren't Diamond level. If they have to wait until they have the points to make a reservation, award availability may no longer be available for the dates they need. That could put a damper on your vacation plans. :eek:

....Now I could see a possible issue with persons who aren't Diamond level. If they have to wait until they have the points to make a reservation, award availability may no longer be available for the dates they need. That could put a damper on your vacation plans. :eek:

count me in that group. Just got gold and I was about to book a 5 night stay for next May but only have 3.5 nights worth of points. Trying to decide whether I should go ahead and reserve the 3 nights now, or wait and see. There are two hotels in the city I am staying at, so I will probably keep checking and if one runs out of availability I'll reserve for as many nights as I can at that point.

I also have Marriott points I had planned to use for another city. As a backup, I am making multiple Marriott reward reservations and will cancel as necessary. I have mixed feelings about that though, as I'm not sure if it is unfairly taking up reward space.

Doesn't Hilton 'force' award availability for a Diamond even if there isn't any available to others?

Not really a frorce, because there are times that a hotel can say no to the request from the Diamond desk.

The new policy doesn't affect me so much, but we often travel internationally with another couple who only gets points through their HH credit card. In the past they were able to reserve their room when we did ours,although they didn't have enough points.
By the time they would have the points I'm sure they would have had a difficult time getting their desired stay (no status).

I just found out today from two different phone calls that effective a few days ago, Hilton Honors has changed their reward policy. You can no longer reserve award nights without first having the all the points necessary in your account. In the past you were able to reserve an award without all of the points and as long as you accumulated them by the time you needed the award you were fine. This was always a great benefit and one that caused me to go out of my way to stay at Hilton Hotels. I expressed my dissapointment that Diamond VIPS such as myself were not notified and they replied they are just telling customers when they call in. Their guest assistance people didn't know anything about it. To register a complaint in writing they gave the following address:

755 Crossover Lane
Memphis Tennessee 38117

I just booked a stay at Hilton Tokyo a week ago, no problem, I only had 28000 pts, and so tx from my partner acc, then short 1.500 pts , which they just have me

I've used it. I'll miss it. It changes how I feel but likely won't affect my choice of programs or properties much.

So, how can you reserve a room and have someone else issue the award with the new policy? I forsee a decline in HH activity in the coupon connection.

So, how can you reserve a room and have someone else issue the award with the new policy?

Give them the certificate number that has been issued in your name from another member's account.

Give them the certificate number that has been issued in your name from another member's account.

i called and made a reservation today and told them i have another cert from my friend account which i will hand over at checkin.

reservation was made without being asked for the reward cert number

dp

Now this affects me big time. I use this feature all of the time.

Currently, I have a 10 night award for Cabo Hilton next February, an an AMEX for four nights in AMS Hilton and they took out the 168,000 for the eight night stretcher for the BUD Hilton, but they haven't taken out the points for the 10 nights @ Cabo or the 125k AMEX award.

I take advantage of this all of the time. This will affect me negatively mostly because I won't be able to take advantage of airfare specials. I have had very good luck with the Diamond Force on awards, but they have never been last minute.

Bummer....big bummer.

Dawn

count me in that group. Just got gold and I was about to book a 5 night stay for next May but only have 3.5 nights worth of points. Trying to decide whether I should go ahead and reserve the 3 nights now, or wait and see.

Grab the 3 nights now! Or better yet, try to grab all 5 by doing what Derpelikan says in Post #18 ;) !
BTW, what category is your hotel? As a Gold, UR eligible to use a GLON2 award to get 6 nights for 150K (the normal price of 4.3 Cat. V or 5.0 Cat. IV nights! )

Maybe I'm not getting the big picture here as I['m so used to this being standard practice for airlines (o.k., not that that makes it any more palatable).

I don't really have a problem with the hotel chain requiring the amount of points necessary to acquire a reward at the time of booking.

It seems to me that it would prevent people from holding rooms that may otherwise be difficult to obtain. That is to say, perhaps the person who has enough points decides to try to reserve a room but can not because occupancy is reserved for a reward that may or may not be obtainable by someone who doesn't have enough points accumulated in the long run.

Sure, it stinks for us, but its' a no brainer for the hotel.

i called and made a reservation today and told them i have another cert from my friend account which i will hand over at checkin.

reservation was made without being asked for the reward cert number

dp

I have been doing this for years .... whether the points or certs are there or not. (If you don't like an answer when doing this, there's the old "thank you, I'll get back to you" method.)

Grab the 3 nights now! Or better yet, try to grab all 5 by doing what Derpelikan says in Post #18 ;) !
BTW, what category is your hotel? As a Gold, UR eligible to use a GLON2 award to get 6 nights for 150K (the normal price of 4.3 Cat. V or 5.0 Cat. IV nights! )

It's Paris, and it doesn't look like either the Arc de Triomphe or the Eiffel Tower properties participate in the GLONP2. I think I will grab what I can, see if I can't get all 5.

It's Paris, and it doesn't look like either the Arc de Triomphe or the Eiffel Tower properties participate in the GLONP2. I think I will grab what I can, see if I can't get all 5.
Tfmpa, both of those hotels are Cat. 6, requiring a GLONP2 @ 175K. They do participate, but A. U must phone HHonors to get that rate (doesn't show online :( :td: ) & B. The trick is finding 6 consecutive available nights!
Even if U forfeit the 6th night, 175K < 200K & U already have 140K, so UR closer than U think! :)
If U actually need only 5 nights, book 6, then offer someone a freebie when U check out & they check in :D in a random act of kindness!

Tfmpa, both of those hotels are Cat. 6, requiring a GLONP2 @ 175K. They do participate, but A. U must phone HHonors to get that rate (doesn't show online :( :td: ) & B. The trick is finding 6 consecutive available nights!
Even if U forfeit the 6th night, 175K < 200K & U already have 140K, so UR closer than U think! :)
If U actually need only 5 nights, book 6, then offer someone a freebie when U check out & they check in :D in a random act of kindness!

thanks for the tip. I checked online. I'm looking at next May, so maybe I'll get lucky. :)

While I currently have enough points in my account I can forsee a time when I might be short but would have them by the time I booked, so for me this is a bummer.

I have used this benefit w/ Marriott. Right now I'm holding an award ressie for my annual birthday trip to London in Feb. I'm currently short of the points required, but will definitely have them by the time the trip comes. If I had to wait until I had them all, then I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be going to London because the properties there book quickly for award stays (especially given the exchange rate).

Cheers.

I just found out today from two different phone calls that effective a few days ago, Hilton Honors has changed their reward policy. You can no longer reserve award nights without first having the all the points necessary in your account. In the past you were able to reserve an award without all of the points and as long as you accumulated them by the time you needed the award you were fine. This was always a great benefit and one that caused me to go out of my way to stay at Hilton Hotels. I expressed my dissapointment that Diamond VIPS such as myself were not notified and they replied they are just telling customers when they call in. Their guest assistance people didn't know anything about it. To register a complaint in writing they gave the following address:

755 Crossover Lane
Memphis Tennessee 38117

this was especially useful with those difficult properties in europe wher you had to book so far in advance to get any decent dates

this was especially useful with those difficult properties in europe wher you had to book so far in advance to get any decent dates

they should offer this as diamond only benefit.

that would be good.

anyway, i have 500K HH sitting in my account so i dont worry :)


cheers dp

Tfmpa, both of those hotels are Cat. 6, requiring a GLONP2 @ 175K. They do participate, but A. U must phone HHonors to get that rate (doesn't show online :( :td: )

This used to be true, but no longer. If you're logged in, there's now a way to reserve these awards online. I don't have it in front of me right at the moment, but I DID reserve the ALON2 award online about 3 weeks ago...

This used to be true, but no longer. If you're logged in, there's now a way to reserve these awards online. I don't have it in front of me right at the moment, but I DID reserve the ALON2 award online about 3 weeks ago...

you can book these online now.

under rewards, VIP only rewards.

up to 14days.. 350K points.

cheers dp

From a common sense standpoint I can understand why they wouldn't allow us to book rooms without having the points. I would hope that they use common sense and allow a certain flexibility when they can see stays have been completed but points haven't posted for whatever reason.

Unfortunately I'm sure this is a case of a few rotten apples spoiling it for everyone. Only takes a few people making all kinds of points reservations that they can't honor to have Hilton decide its not fair to those that actually have the points.

What I'd really like them to do is to have ALL of their hotels simply follow the rules that exist. What I find surprising is that from my own observations the hotels that treat their customers overall well, and also treat their diamond guests well are almost always busy. There are a couple of examples of hilton hotels that offer terrible customer service and are still busy - but many more examples of hiltons that could be much more successful if they'd only offer decent customer service.

One poster stated that it seemed a bit odd that they would allow you to make a reservation w/out the required points to begin with...I'm paraphrasing. While I can see that point, the other side of the coin could have been that if you get closer to the travel dates and you don't have the points, perhaps Hilton was hoping you would plop down $400 and buy the extra needed....if it was close enough to the end of the year and your trip was in the next calendar year, they may be able to get $800 out of you.

Just a thought...although since the perk has been taken away, I suppose it makes not difference at this point.

Dawn

I wrote HHonors an email venting my frustration at the change in policy. I know it means so little, but I thought I would at least let the program reps know how I felt.

I make my travel plans WAY in advance. 8 months to a year beforehand. As a Diamond member with 60+ nights a year (on my own dime) I appreciated this service and used it frequently.
Here is their response....

We are very sorry to learn you are not happy with the HHonors program. We do strive at all times to ensure the comfort and ease of travel for all HHonors members and especially our loyal Diamond Members.

We changed the reward redemption to having to have the points in your account at time of booking so as to match the website.

We realize you have a choice of where to stay when you travel and we hope you will give us another chance to impress you with our commitment to excellent service.

We appreciate your business.

Best Regards,

ummmmm....... :rolleyes: right.

I just attempted to make a reward reservation via telephone and was told that there is a new policy as of about one week ago that you must have the points needed for your reward in your account before you can make a reservation. This new policy is very dissapointing to me. I greatly appreciated the old policy in which reward reservations could be made in advance without having the points in hand. Now I anticpate it will be much more difficult for me to plan my vacations in advance since I try to use my points as soon as I earn them.

I just attempted to make a reward reservation via telephone and was told that there is a new policy as of about one week ago that you must have the points needed for your reward in your account before you can make a reservation. This new policy is very dissapointing to me. I greatly appreciated the old policy in which reward reservations could be made in advance without having the points in hand. Now I anticpate it will be much more difficult for me to plan my vacations in advance since I try to use my points as soon as I earn them.


You're way late.... ;)
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=725655&highlight=points+before+booking

about a week too late

Drats - that's not good. Have often used this feature in the past.

I have loads of points in my account which I am unable to use because I am almost never able to get rooms for points with Hilton. Often I end up using starwood as it seems their availability is better. It has gotten to the point where I stay at a starwood if I will pay and earn points, because at least I know I can use them later. If this change will increase availability, I fully support it.

Marriott allows you to place a reservation without having all the points available.

If you want a reward from Amex and don't have the points, you can advance up to 15,000 points based on (I assume) your spending patterns.
Now i realize a CC isn't like a hotel stay but it seems like Hilton could give some wiggle room there - book it if you're only short X points ..

IMHO it does make sense. If you read the Marriott board there are people who have multiple (and I do mean MULTIPLE) award reservations that they will eventually cancel depending how their plans pan out.

As long as Diamond desk and hotels can "open" up inventory for Diamond members I am satisfied with the program.

As long as Diamond desk and hotels can "open" up inventory for Diamond members I am satisfied with the program.And for their top elites that is one of the strengths of Hilton (and *wood) over Marriott. But one of Marriott's strengths is that I can still make that reservation even if I don't have the points yet in my account (or even if I have the points, I may make more than one reservation and hold until I decide which one I will really take.)

I will admit that I definitely make use of this Marriott benefit. The reason is that Marriott hotels tend to put so few rooms out for standard awards that we have to play that game. With Hilton and *wood the top level elites don't have to play as they will have more availability to pull awards from.

Color me silly but how do you make a reward reservation that you are going to pay for with an alternative award (ie the AXON or GLON awards)? My limited experience with the website is you HAVE to use one of the traditional awards.

I just got back from a GLONP @ the Hilton Effiel.

Scott

I just got back from a GLONP @ the Hilton Effiel.And??? :confused:

Welcome back!

I just got back from a GLONP @ the Hilton Effiel.

Scott

Scott,

Are you hinting that we should throw you a welcome home party - or was there some other point to your post?

IMHO it does make sense. If you read the Marriott board there are people who have multiple (and I do mean MULTIPLE) award reservations that they will eventually cancel depending how their plans pan out.

As long as Diamond desk and hotels can "open" up inventory for Diamond members I am satisfied with the program.

Agreed. I honestly don't see what all the hype is about, especially if your Diamond.

Scott,

Are you hinting that we should throw you a welcome home party - or was there some other point to your post?


No smart A _ _ , I was responding to post # 23. The person was not sure if they still take a GLONP @ that Hilton. But thanks for the offer of the party anyway

Scott

No smart A _ _ , I was responding to post # 23. The person was not sure if they still take a GLONP @ that Hilton. But thanks for the offer of the party anyway

Scott

i guess hilton analysed the blocked room patterns and found out that mostly the rooms are blocked at high season and other diamonds or golds couldnt get award rooms.

i guess they found out that most of the rooms got cancalled again, so for me its good news as i think that overall availability will go up in peak seasons.

still the approach with booking first, than calling them and telling them that you use another Reward cert still works, so i dont think its a huge change.

you have to have 200K in your account constantly than you dont have a problem

dp

What a novel idea?:)

Pretty soon the airlines are going to require you to have all the miles in your account before booking a free ticket.:)

mike

Mike:

Certainly, requiring all points to be in your account prior to making a reservation makes "sense."

I think all we are pointing out by this thread is 1) there is a new change in the policy and 2) for those of you that are affected by this change, here is the information.

We can go back and forth whether we supported/appreciated/ridiculed (whatever) the policy in this first place but I don't think that is what is at hand here.

Many of the "perks," unusual or otherwise, may make no difference to me. In that case, I just keep on reading other things that spark my interest. In this case, I do and have (and am currently) utilizing this perk and so it sparked my interest.

We can all agree that it was a very interesting perk to start with....but the OP was really just letting us know that someone (again) has changed in the loyalty program. And I am very happy about that because in this case, it does affect me.

Dawn

Mike:

Certainly, requiring all points to be in your account prior to making a reservation makes "sense."

I think all we are pointing out by this thread is 1) there is a new change in the policy and 2) for those of you that are affected by this change, here is the information.

We can go back and forth whether we supported/appreciated/ridiculed (whatever) the policy in this first place but I don't think that is what is at hand here.

Many of the "perks," unusual or otherwise, may make no difference to me. In that case, I just keep on reading other things that spark my interest. In this case, I do and have (and am currently) utilizing this perk and so it sparked my interest.

We can all agree that it was a very interesting perk to start with....but the OP was really just letting us know that someone (again) has changed in the loyalty program. And I am very happy about that because in this case, it does affect me.

Dawn


Ahhh thats the grey area. As you mention this is a (supposedly a well known) perk, not a published benefit.

MIKESILV's comment is dead on!

What a novel idea?:)

Pretty soon the airlines are going to require you to have all the miles in your account before booking a free ticket.:)

mike

I am wondering when pretty soon is and where that will be applicable.

In most US airline programs in which I participate, I can make a booking for a "free ticket" without all the miles actually in the account. It's just that the booking for a free ticket doesn't get ticketed until the miles are in the account.

However, in the realm of the hotel programs, things usually work differently than they do with the US airlines' programs. For those who still know how to do it, HHonors is still great for making award bookings even when all the points for all the award stays are not in the account.

I am wondering when pretty soon is and where that will be applicable.

In most US airline programs in which I participate, I can make a booking for a "free ticket" without all the miles actually in the account. It's just that the booking for a free ticket doesn't get ticketed until the miles are in the account.

However, in the realm of the hotel programs, things usually work differently than they do with the US airlines' programs. For those who still know how to do it, HHonors is still great for making award bookings even when all the points for all the award stays are not in the account.

for most asian and european programs you cant make a reservation without the points in your account.

well at least not for 1year in advance.

maybe 3 days to 3 weeks reservation , but not 1year ...

dp

In most US airline programs in which I participate, I can make a booking for a "free ticket" without all the miles actually in the account. It's just that the booking for a free ticket doesn't get ticketed until the miles are in the account.


But the hold before ticketing is i.e. from 2 to 14 days with UA and AA. Not like with Marriott where you can hold an award ressie for about a year.

For those who still know how to do it, HHonors is still great for making award bookings even when all the points for all the award stays are not in the account.

We all have paper certs, don't we?

So to clarify does HH now require you to have the points, but not necessarily redeem them? For example I have 500k points and want to book an GLONP2 in a couple of places, will they actually force me to redeem the certificate (and use the points) upon reservation? Or they just want to make sure I have the points to pay for it and then I can get the e-cert whenever I want?

So to clarify does HH now require you to have the points, but not necessarily redeem them? For example I have 500k points and want to book an GLONP2 in a couple of places, will they actually force me to redeem the certificate (and use the points) upon reservation? Or they just want to make sure I have the points to pay for it and then I can get the e-cert whenever I want?

Hilton will issue you a "Reward Certificate" as part of the confirmation process. The issue of this certificate (has a unique number which is also linked to your confirmation) will trigger a deduction of the appropriate number of points from your account.

Unused certificates can be "redeposited" in your account

When I've booked award stays in the past I did the booking long before I ordered the certificate. I had points in my account & they stayed there until I ordered the reward cert.

Cheers.

Ah. This change does suck then -- used to be two separate steps, book, and then get award certificate. Now the follow up question is-- are there 'redeposit' or cancellation fees if you get an award certificate and then decide you don't want to use it? Marriott charges to redeposit unused certs

are there 'redeposit' or cancellation fees if you get an award certificate and then decide you don't want to use it? Marriott charges to redeposit unused certs

Hilton has never charged me to redeposit an unused cert - but then again, neither has Marriott.

Hilton has never charged me to redeposit an unused cert - but then again, neither has Marriott.

Ditto to both.

I have mostly used it to temporarily hold rooms while I try and assemble an itinerary to maximize free nights. Lately, my trips have been to places with few hiltons so my points are gathering dust.

Good for Hilton. Those who take rooms out of inventory without having the ability or actual desire to use them are doing a disservice to those of us with a need WITH the points.

so please explain the difference, because perhaps I'm missing something....

The old policy - Let's say I have 50K points that I want to use towards a 100K point award 3 months from now. The cancellation part is still the same, usually 24 hours. They take my CC number in case I don't show up. I call them 25 hours before to cancel and no damage is done.

New policy - Same idea. I make a res for the same exact dates, same hotel, 100K points which I have in my account. They also take my CC number to guarantee the res.

Now I cancel 25 hours before arriving. In the first case, nothing happens, no more button pushing necessary, no certs being issued, etc...

In the second case, it seems to me that it will cost Hilton some extra $. They need to redeposit my cert, meaning that some res clerk has to spend few minutes punching keys on their computer.

Either way, whoever else was waiting for an open award res, they would still be screwed.

Unless we are coming to a new era of redepositing certs for a fee, this does not make sense.

AA will allow you to hold a res for 24 and up to 72 hours, depending on the res with a a fare guarantee on a revenue ticket, yet, they will give you 2 weeks to hold an award ticket. Why can't Hilton come up with somewhat similar policy?

If your res is 9-12 months ahead you have up to 6 months to book it, 6-9 months, you have up to 3 months to book it, 3-6 months ahead, you have a month to book it, anything less, you need the points at the time of booking.

i dont get it anyway.

you reserve a full flexible booking for the days you need.
after you have enough points in your account, you check if there is award availability.

if yes, book it online on points,
if not, make a diamond force and let them change the paid booking to an award.

if someone is blocking a room one year in advance even he/she doesnt have the points, its unfair to others who have the points and can book right away.

there are still enough ways to get around this, so i dont get the problem here!

dp

I think the issue is in your 'old policy' scenario you only have 50k points in your account but will still be able to make the reservation. In the new world order, you won't be able to make that reservation which is why in your 'new policy' scenario, you had to state that 100K points were available in your account.

So unless you are a Diamond elite, there is a definite possibility that the award room you see today, will not be available in 3 months when you will have the points needed.

Granted there is a different issue about "blocking" rooms and then not using them. And possibly that is the reason for the change in rules. The end result is that with this rule change, some may not be able to get awards they could have under the old rules. Whether that is a good thing or bad, depends on your point of view.

This is how the Hilton desk explained the new policy to me: You can make a
future reservation, and when you have the points required you can call and request an award certificate IF the hotel has award inventory available at that time, and at that time you cannot make a Diamond force even if there are rooms available--inventory must show award availability.

This is how the Hilton desk explained the new policy to me: You can make a
future reservation, and when you have the points required you can call and request an award certificate IF the hotel has award inventory available at that time, and at that time you cannot make a Diamond force even if there are rooms available--inventory must show award availability.

So, basically, you can make an award reservation when you have enough points. Please don't make this more complicated than it is.

So unless you are a Diamond elite, there is a definite possibility that the award room you see today, will not be available in 3 months when you will have the points needed.


Exactly, this is what it is: It is taking away benefits from not so frequent or sometimes not even frequent travellers (Gold) and making clear that there is a difference between Gold and Diamond. I had talks with Hilton Corporate and there is more to expect. Gold benefits will go down, Diamond benefits will go up and there might be something beyond Diamond at the end of the day - I appreciate it.

Marriott does not charge to redeposit traditional awards - what they don't let you do is redeposit the hotel portion of their main awards (the Travel Packages) for full value. (In fact, they may not let you redeposit those at all - I think you used to be able to do it for 40-50% value or something.)

I can appreciate why Hilton has tightened the restriction, as long as you can still cancel the award for free per the normal cancellation rules of the property. It would also be nice if HH had a short "hold" feature similar to the airlines - long enough to complete an AA->HH transfer, knowing that when it completes you can finish booking your award.

What a novel idea?:)

Pretty soon the airlines are going to require you to have all the miles in your account before booking a free ticket.:)

mike

When I book a paid airline ticket, I pay for the ticket in full either at purchase time, or within a few days before it is ticketed... even though travel may not be for a few weeks or months into the future.

When I book a paid hotel stay, I pay nothing, only a commitment that I will abide by their cancellation policy if I choose to cancel. My room is billed each night as I stay.

In other words, don't compare full-points airline tickets (prepaid reservation) to a full-points hotel stay (pay per night). It's two different business models!

Exactly, this is what it is: It is taking away benefits from not so frequent or sometimes not even frequent travellers (Gold) and making clear that there is a difference between Gold and Diamond. I had talks with Hilton Corporate and there is more to expect. Gold benefits will go down, Diamond benefits will go up and there might be something beyond Diamond at the end of the day - I appreciate it.

Ok...so I just busted my a$$ to become a Diamond, and now can't book award stays without actual point availability? And I can't use a Diamond force? Why did I push so hard for Diamond again?
Back to Marriott I go...

Ok...so I just busted my a$$ to become a Diamond, and now can't book award stays without actual point availability? And I can't use a Diamond force? Why did I push so hard for Diamond again?
Back to Marriott I go...

the diamond force was never a benefit of diamond if you tried to book an award.

diamond force is officially only for a paid stay, and the diamond force for award rooms is a bonus which is still applied.

i just forced an award room (via diamond force) so please do not post incorrect information that a diamand force is not possible.

to force a diamond award room you have to reserve the room (paid stay) and when you have the points you have to call hilton to force the award if not availalbe.

this still works.

dp

When I book a paid airline ticket, I pay for the ticket in full either at purchase time, or within a few days before it is ticketed... even though travel may not be for a few weeks or months into the future.

When I book a paid hotel stay, I pay nothing, only a commitment that I will abide by their cancellation policy if I choose to cancel. My room is billed each night as I stay.

In other words, don't compare full-points airline tickets (prepaid reservation) to a full-points hotel stay (pay per night). It's two different business models!

Nice neat little example to fit your line of thought isnt it?

Question:
Ever book a hotel room at the Internet No cancel rate you pay in full at booking no stay - no refund?

KaBoom goes the "little logic" :)

mike

Gold benefits will go down, Diamond benefits will go up and there might be something beyond Diamond at the end of the day - I appreciate it.

I think that there may be something like this already behind the scenes. i.e. where not all diamond members are treated equally. I can't say for sure, but I've been a member of the HiltonHonors program for many years, and I think that I get rewards I seek much easier now that I stay 300 nights a year (will hit 400 this year) than I did when I just cleared 60. It could just be all in my head, but this past year I called for a hotel room for New Years Eve in Times Square at the end of September and got it no problem (after the CSR originally chuckled at the idea).

I don't know if they need a level beyond diamond, certainley earning and using 1M or more points a year if you greatly exceed the 60 nights is reward enough for me. Remembering the days and thinking to the future when I traveled less and in the future when I will travel less, I think Hilton should be good to ALL their customers.

400 nights in one year? And I thought there were only 365 nights in a year! :confused: (Just kidding. I do realize some people book more than one room at a time...)

Anyway, at this rate, wouldn't it be better to just buy (or get a permanent lease) the damn Hilton hotel room?


I think that there may be something like this already behind the scenes. i.e. where not all diamond members are treated equally. I can't say for sure, but I've been a member of the HiltonHonors program for many years, and I think that I get rewards I seek much easier now that I stay 300 nights a year (will hit 400 this year) than I did when I just cleared 60. It could just be all in my head, but this past year I called for a hotel room for New Years Eve in Times Square at the end of September and got it no problem (after the CSR originally chuckled at the idea).
.

Nice neat little example to fit your line of thought isnt it?

Question:
Ever book a hotel room at the Internet No cancel rate you pay in full at booking no stay - no refund?

KaBoom goes the "little logic" :)

mike

Most hotel reservations are not prepaid. This is why prepaid hotel reservations have a lower rate than standard one which allow you to cancel ahead without penalty.

It seems like MIKESILV is the one who cherry picked the example to fit his argument.

Most hotel reservations are not prepaid. This is why prepaid hotel reservations have a lower rate than standard one which allow you to cancel ahead without penalty.

It seems like MIKESILV is the one who cherry picked the example to fit his argument.

Thats exactly right:) .. as a demonstration that although my initial post on this thread was not Intended to fit the "hotel model' exactly one can always find plenty of examples to support (or contradict) ones point of view.

That said I really dont care one way or the other about the HH change but I will bet it came from a significant number of members (or HH would have even bothered) with not enough points in their accounts making quite likely multiple reservations way in advance and then cancelling when they finally decided to stay (or not at all for that matter).

mike

As a silver HHonors member, I do not use Hilton as much as the regulars here. I consider the new rule a negative, unless people were hogging rewards (IMO more than 3 at one time for each expected award to use). Time will tell if it gets easier to secure awards after this rule change, assuming Hilton makes the same amount of awards available as before.

I have taken advantage of reserving without points on Marriott, but I only take one award at a time and cancel as soon as my plans change.

Hilton could have made it so that each account would be limited to one award without having all the points in the account, although this would have required extra work to implement.

Hilton could have made it so that each account would be limited to one award without having all the points in the account, although this would have required extra work to implement.

Agreed, agreed! Better still, they could have at least left this a possibility for Gold/Diamond members. The fact that, even though it was only recently instituted, the Diamond desk is not willing to make even a single exception, has me seriously considering booking away from Hilton. This new policy is a HUGE devaluation to Diamond status.
Again, I am a new Diamond, and so far...I am NOT impressed at ALL! :td:

Agreed, agreed! Better still, they could have at least left this a possibility for Gold/Diamond members. The fact that, even though it was only recently instituted, the Diamond desk is not willing to make even a single exception, has me seriously considering booking away from Hilton. This new policy is a HUGE devaluation to Diamond status.
Again, I am a new Diamond, and so far...I am NOT impressed at ALL! :td:

Well if you ask me ( considering the hue and cry here :) ) this change may very well be a nice additional benefit to those Diamonds who actually have stayed in HH properties and accumulated some points, which is not that difficult anyway.

Everybody and his dog got double or triple points by pleading with the DD CSRs for the last promo ( supposedly targetted) plus they all rack up tons of points on their Hilton Amex... even as I post there is link to the right for 50K points to sign for the Amex.

mike

400 nights in one year? And I thought there were only 365 nights in a year! :confused: (Just kidding. I do realize some people book more than one room at a time...)

Anyway, at this rate, wouldn't it be better to just buy (or get a permanent lease) the damn Hilton hotel room?

I wish they would sell me a room! You haven't heard of them doing this have you? It is not a bad deal. I tried corporate apartments but missed all the things that Hilton offers. I'll tell you what, the cleaning staff loves me because they go in the room half the time and I haven't even been there. Off at another hotel or even better...home!!

Well if you ask me ( considering the hue and cry here :) ) this change may very well be a nice additional benefit to those Diamonds who actually have stayed in HH properties and accumulated some points, which is not that difficult anyway.

Everybody and his dog got double or triple points by pleading with the DD CSRs for the last promo ( supposedly targetted) plus they all rack up tons of points on their Hilton Amex... even as I post there is link to the right for 50K points to sign for the Amex.

mike


I agree. No more hogging the Cavalieri or other premium hotels with multiple awards for which you don't have the points. This is one change that I agree with!

Moreover, it is no different than Hyatt GP and the FFN promotion. If you have the points, you can park a reward reservation there and then substitute a FFN once it is earned. If not, then too bad.

Marriott still allows you to reserve without the points, but if they were to switch, it would be no sweat off my back -- wife and I have a combined 800,000 plus Marriott points, in addition to 500,000 plus HHonors points.

I believe the change is saving HHonors money by reducing the number of “Diamond Redemption” award stays. My understanding is that there are two buckets of award rooms. The first is your standard bucket of award rooms (“HHonors Certificate” award rooms) that is accessible by anyone. The second bucket is the “Diamond Redemption” award room bucket which is only available to Diamonds. (This is not the Diamond force. This is a separate bucket that is used before a force is needed.) Award rooms come out of the standard bucket for all members, including Diamond members, until depleted. Then the Diamond Redemption bucket is opened up to handle any additional requests for award rooms by Diamond members.

The HHonors payment to hotels for the standard HHonors Certificate redemptions is relatively low (I’ve seen as low as $15 for the charge to HHonors for award stays at some Hampton Inns). I think the HHonors payment to hotels for Diamond Redemptions is substantially higher (average daily room rate or some % of rack).

What I believe is happening is that non-Diamond members are reserving award rooms (many without having the points needed) and depleting the bucket of standard HHonors Certificate rooms, forcing Diamond members into the Diamond Redemption bucket. When the non-Diamond members determine that they won’t be using the award room, they cancel and the room likely goes back into the standard award inventory. This could be at any time, but is likely very close to the planned stay date. Thus, Diamonds are making Diamond Redemption stays (and HHonors is paying the higher rate) while standard HHonors Certificate rooms (the lower cost for HHonors) remain available in inventory.

By requiring that members have the points in their accounts prior to reserving an award room, HHonors is reducing the number of situations like those described above, thus reducing their costs.

Well if you ask me ( considering the hue and cry here :) ) this change may very well be a nice additional benefit to those Diamonds who actually have stayed in HH properties and accumulated some points, which is not that difficult anyway.

Everybody and his dog got double or triple points by pleading with the DD CSRs for the last promo ( supposedly targetted) plus they all rack up tons of points on their Hilton Amex... even as I post there is link to the right for 50K points to sign for the Amex.

mike

Not familiar with what you are speaking of. I earned my status with stays. Last year, I stayed in Marriott hotels 143 nights. This year, I divested, spending a lot of time in Hilton to earn my status. I won't be making the same mistake again next year.
Besides....Marriott just treats me better anyway.

Besides....Marriott just treats me better anyway.

Marriott's program is the worst one out there when it comes to actually rewarding program members and I spent 125+ paid nights with FS Marriott's last year.

The grass is definitely not greener on Marriott's side. You will learn that when you actually try to book an award room. Yes - it is not available.

Tchau!

Marriott's program is the worst one out there when it comes to actually rewarding program members and I spent 125+ paid nights with FS Marriott's last year.

The grass is definitely not greener on Marriott's side. You will learn that when you actually try to book an award room. Yes - it is not available.

Tchau!

you dont have points, you dont get an award.

this does reward those of use who really earn points. i have over 500K hilton points, and they are growing as i dont stay so much on awards on points.

but its good to know that the availabiltiy might go up without the need to diamond force or do other tricks to secure a reward.

but it would be good if hilton just annonces no reward black out dates.

that would solve the problem

dp

Heres one downside to all this which just occured to me.

A number of my recent HH award stays have been "Special requests" or if you will Diamond Force and I have been very lucky to get points based on the re-embursement amount by HH to the properties ( the last three for example have been AXONs in excess of $500/night) if HH is trying to reduce the cost those special arrangements then my "lucky bonus points" are to drop considerably :D

Oh well
mike

I don't know who's right and who's wrong, but just yesterday I was able to make a PointStretcher reservation at the Conrad Istanbul for 4 nights @72K points total. I'm ~10K points short at the moment, but the Diamond desk had no problem putting it on hold. :confused:

I really dont care one way or the other about the HH change but I will bet it came from a significant number of members (or HH would have even bothered) with not enough points in their accounts making quite likely multiple reservations way in advance and then cancelling when they finally decided to stay (or not at all for that matter).Someone earlier mentioned that the change makes the phone reservations now match the web site. Given that they have been trying to move people to make reservations via the web (to save them the cost of the phone agent), it makes sense that the change furthers that by eliminating a benefit of using the phone.

I believe the change is saving HHonors money by reducing the number of “Diamond Redemption” award stays. My understanding is that there are two buckets of award rooms. The first is your standard bucket of award rooms (“HHonors Certificate” award rooms) that is accessible by anyone. The second bucket is the “Diamond Redemption” award room bucket which is only available to Diamonds. (This is not the Diamond force. This is a separate bucket that is used before a force is needed.) Award rooms come out of the standard bucket for all members, including Diamond members, until depleted. Then the Diamond Redemption bucket is opened up to handle any additional requests for award rooms by Diamond members.

The HHonors payment to hotels for the standard HHonors Certificate redemptions is relatively low (I’ve seen as low as $15 for the charge to HHonors for award stays at some Hampton Inns). I think the HHonors payment to hotels for Diamond Redemptions is substantially higher (average daily room rate or some % of rack).

What I believe is happening is that non-Diamond members are reserving award rooms (many without having the points needed) and depleting the bucket of standard HHonors Certificate rooms, forcing Diamond members into the Diamond Redemption bucket.I have no knowledge of the reimbursement rates for awards (and have often wondering about it). I've had stays where I had two rooms, one on an award and one on a web-special rate, and the hotel told me they could only upgrade the award room, implying that the web-rate room was too inexpensive. This was before I made diamond, so it had to be the normal award rate. It was an overseas Conrad, BTW.

A number of my recent HH award stays have been "Special requests" or if you will Diamond Force and I have been very lucky to get points based on the re-embursement amount by HH to the properties ( the last three for example have been AXONs in excess of $500/night)How did you earn points on an award stay?

I am 578 points short to book a 30,000 point reservation. AMEX HHonors points will post next month so no worries, but would HHonors allow you to book award reservation over the phone if you are so close to the required number of points? Would they give you a customer service credit to push the account to 30,000 points if you asked in a nice way?

All you can do is ask...

You can always buy 1000 points online for $12.50.

I am 578 points short to book a 30,000 point reservation. AMEX HHonors points will post next month so no worries, but would HHonors allow you to book award reservation over the phone if you are so close to the required number of points? Would they give you a customer service credit to push the account to 30,000 points if you asked in a nice way?

All you can do is ask...

@:-)Don't you just love the search feature?!@:-)

Ask? Ha! Don't ask, the answer is here on FlyerTalk. ;)

Read this little thread: Must Now Have All Points in Hilton HHonors Account Before Booking Reward Reservation (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=725655&highlight=reward). Enjoy!

The FT search is often lame but can often yield surprising and immediate results.

MisterNice

I just tried to make a reservation in a Hilton Hotel which shows availabilty.

I have tons of Amex MR points but have not transferred them yet because I first wanted to secure the reservation before transferring points to HHonors.

The lady on the phone told me, that the points have to be in the account before she can make an award reservation.

Question: Did I just get an unhelpful agent or is this a new rule?
And if yes, is this rule valid for all HHonors levels or only for the "lower" levels?

Thanks for your advice, Martin

That's the rule, not really new as it's been around for quite a bit.

This new rule has been there for a while now. It applies to all levels of membership I belive.

I just tried to make a reservation in a Hilton Hotel which shows availabilty.

I have tons of Amex MR points but have not transferred them yet because I first wanted to secure the reservation before transferring points to HHonors.

The lady on the phone told me, that the points have to be in the account before she can make an award reservation.

Question: Did I just get an unhelpful agent or is this a new rule?
And if yes, is this rule valid for all HHonors levels or only for the "lower" levels?

Thanks for your advice, Martin

Sure, the points need to be in your account. That's how it works. No exeptions.