Starwood Preferred Guest - Resort at Singer Island. Platinums Beware

So I just returned from a trip to singer island. I had booked a poolview suite and was excited to see on my day of check in that they had many better suites available.

I was surprised when I got to the front desk and inquired about an upgrade and I was told that the hotel does not upgrade platinums. All their rooms are suites so they don't have to do it. I spoke with the front desk manager and she reiterated that they will not upgrade. So consequently I paid an upgrade charge to get a room with an ocean view suite.

I understand that the terms and conditions do not require them to upgrade but it does not make sense. Every room is the same size just different views. The hotel was at 48% occupancy when i was there.

If they want to do well, the hotel is going to step up to the plate and treat Starwood's best customers better.

I stay at the Atlantic in Fort Lauderdale quite often and am always upgraded to higher level suites there. They are the same type of condo hotel as singer island.

I am very surprised by this as on my last visit I was given a two bedroomed ocean view suite. I wonder if someone could clarify that they have now changed their policy as if this is the case I would not be visiting anytime in the future. I hope that this is not the case as I really liked the hotel. F&B had huge problems when I was there but I would hope that improved as it was just open a month on my visit.

With regard to the Atlantic I found the opposite to you on my last stay and had to really fight for an upgrade as I was told that there was none available but one soon became available when I found that there were still selling on line. I would not rate the Atlantic very highly and will not return there. The service was poor at best.

I am very surprised by this as on my last visit I was given a two bedroomed ocean view suite. I wonder if someone could clarify that they have now changed their policy as if this is the case I would not be visiting anytime in the future. I hope that this is not the case as I really liked the hotel. F&B had huge problems when I was there but I would hope that improved as it was just open a month on my visit...

Platinums can be upgraded to standard suites based upon availability at check-in; however, at this property, the lowest class room type is a standard suite, so technically, they don't have to upgrade any further.

It could be that they were not tuned into the nuances of the program rules when you first stayed; however, it seems that they've caught on in the interim.

Not to say that they shouldn't go above and beyond, especially if there is a lot of open availability, but that is their perogative.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Thank you for posting the reply. I think many times it just depends on who you get at the desk at the time. I thought the hotel was a great addition to Starwood and will probably venture another trip there as they told me to get in contact in order to make sure they took special care of me due to some problems on my last stay. Overall I would tell people to stay there.

Cheers

Stephen

Just looked at the website for the Singer Island property - looks very nice. No info on website about using points. Does anyone know how many points/night?

Just looked at the website for the Singer Island property - looks very nice. No info on website about using points. Does anyone know how many points/night?

It is a Cat 5 so normally 12-16k per night. Since it is an all suites hotel it must be booked over the phone and will most probably be between 20-30k.

It is a Cat 5 so normally 12-16k per night. Since it is an all suites hotel it must be booked over the phone and will most probably be between 20-30k.

This post has me baffled. If it is an "all" suites hotel why would it be given the classification of Cat 5 but not have any rooms available for redemption at the 12-16k point level? If they truly do charge 20-30k per night, why not make it a Cat 6 or some such designation? I'm not questioning the facts above, just the logic if true.

Platinums can be upgraded to standard suites based upon availability at check-in; however, at this property, the lowest class room type is a standard suite, so technically, they don't have to upgrade any further.
Is this property choosing to classify all oceanview suites as "specialty" suites because of their premium view? If I had booked a 1BR poolview standard suite, then I would expect to be upgraded to a 1BR oceanfront standard suite if one were available at check-in.

From the Plat benefits overview:
"You'll automatically be upgraded to our best available guest room at check-in. Best room varies by property and includes select standard suite."

From the SPG T&Cs:
"Upgrades to the best room at Participating Properties at time of check-in, based upon room availability for your entire stay, including Select Standard Suites. Specialty Suites such as, but not limited to, premium view, Presidential, Honeymoon, and multiple bedroom suites are excluded. Best rooms are identified by each property and may not include upgraded Towers level accommodations unless Towers level accommodations are booked originally."

Lurker, my understanding is that SPG categories are based almost exclusively on each hotel's average room rate (or RevPAR or some similar variation). In the case of these all-suites properties that choose to treat every award as a suite upgrade award, is their category instead based on what a theoretical standard room price would be if that hotel had such a room?

Is this property choosing to classify all oceanview suites as "specialty" suites because of their premium view?

Yes, that is generally what every property with oceanview suites does.

If I had booked a 1BR poolview standard suite, then I would expect to be upgraded to a 1BR oceanfront standard suite if one were available at check-in.

Then you would have been as disappointed as the OP.

including Select Standard Suites

Lurker, my understanding is that SPG categories are based almost exclusively on each hotel's average room rate (or RevPAR or some similar variation). In the case of these all-suites properties that choose to treat every award as a suite upgrade award, is their category instead based on what a theoretical standard room price would be if that hotel had such a room?

It is based upon Average Daily Rate (ADR). Suites cost twice as many Starpoints, on average, but it is still based on the ADR for a suite, not a standard room in the conventional sense. It just so happens that the standard rooms at this hotel are standard suites. There are no "rooms" as such. You can book the better suites here using Starpoints as they have four categories of suites and three of those are the two-bedroom variety.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

This post has me baffled. If it is an "all" suites hotel why would it be given the classification of Cat 5 but not have any rooms available for redemption at the 12-16k point level? If they truly do charge 20-30k per night, why not make it a Cat 6 or some such designation? I'm not questioning the facts above, just the logic if true.

It is an all-suite resort like Bora Bora Nui. It is Category 5 because its ADR places it in that category for redemption and reimbursement purposes.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Yes, that is generally what every property with oceanview suites does.

That's not my experience at the Westin Grand Bahama, but perhaps it's because that hotel doesn't have any suites on the backside of the hotel. It's been almost two years since my last visit there, so I can't say what they're latest practice is.

Maybe the same explains all of my oceanviews at the Westin Maui and Westin Rio Mar (now gone from SPG). Or maybe they just went above and beyond for some reason.


It is based upon Average Daily Rate (ADR). Suites cost twice as many Starpoints, on average, but it is still based on the ADR for a suite, not a standard room in the conventional sense. It just so happens that the standard rooms at this hotel are standard suites. There are no "rooms" as such. You can book the better suites here using Starpoints as they have four categories of suites and three of those are the two-bedroom variety.

It sounds to me as if you are saying that at an all-suite hotel, the category is based on the ADR of a suite as if it were a regular room. And then for award redemption, additional points are required as if it is an upgrade from a regular room. So if one ordinary hotel's ADR is $250 and it gets categorized as a Cat5, then if an all-suite hotel's ADR is also $250, it also gets categorized as a Cat5. But the points required to book even the most basic "room" at the all-suite hotel will still require more points than at the non-suite hotel. Do I understand this correctly?

...It sounds to me as if you are saying that at an all-suite hotel, the category is based on the ADR of a suite as if it were a regular room. And then for award redemption, additional points are required as if it is an upgrade from a regular room. So if one ordinary hotel's ADR is $250 and it gets categorized as a Cat5, then if an all-suite hotel's ADR is also $250, it also gets categorized as a Cat5. But the points required to book even the most basic "room" at the all-suite hotel will still require more points than at the non-suite hotel. Do I understand this correctly?

I think you'll need to simplify these questions for me. I'm obviously on a different page. Maybe if I understood what the concern was...

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I think you'll need to simplify these questions for me. I'm obviously on a different page. Maybe if I understood what the concern was...

I'm concerned that the hotel is categorized as if it was an ordinary hotel but then the points redemption requires an excessive number of points.

If the ADR at this hotel is in the same range as the ADR at the Westin Casuarina Grand Cayman (which has 0 suites), then they're both given the same category. So the average cash price per room is in the same range. Wouldn't it make sense for the number of points per award room to cost the same, too?

Finally found Singer island Resort on website for points. I am still not very familiar with the new website

On the website it has redemption for 12,000 to 16,000 points/night - Cat 5. Is this accurate? I assume the lower end of the range is for the one bedroom suite and upper is for 2 bedroom.

Some of the posts here seem to indicate although it is Cat 5 costing 12000 to 16000 points in actuality to reserve you must pay 20,000 to 30,000 points??

I never knew that there were Starwood condo hotels other than the timeshares. We really prefer this type of arrangement on a vacation. What other Starwood hotels are all suites - meaning a suite that is similar to a condo with separate bedroom/living area and a kitchen?

I'm concerned that the hotel is categorized as if it was an ordinary hotel but then the points redemption requires an excessive number of points.

If the ADR at this hotel is in the same range as the ADR at the Westin Casuarina Grand Cayman (which has 0 suites), then they're both given the same category. So the average cash price per room is in the same range. Wouldn't it make sense for the number of points per award room to cost the same, too?

The ADR statistic is the same for every category 5 hotel/resort/all-suites property. If they earn $X ADR, they're category 5. Doesn't matter if they sell all suites, or suites + rooms, or just rooms to get there. If they make the grade, they get the category.

By your example, if the Westin in Grand Cayman had standard award suites, it would be twice the redemption as their regular rooms, thus the same cost as this hotel. So, the price would be the same.

But, let's look at an example that may help.

Standard award rooms at a category 4 property are 10,000 Starpoints. Right?
Standard suite award rooms at a category 4 property are 20,000 Starpoints. Right?

Therefore, if a category 4 property only had suites to offer for redemption, then it stands to reason that the standard suite award would be 20,000 Starpoints. Right?

And because standard suites are what Platinum members can get upgraded to, subject to availability, the hotel/resort does not have to upgrade any further. They can, if they wish, but they don't have to.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Finally found Singer island Resort on website for points. I am still not very familiar with the new website

On the website it has redemption for 12,000 to 16,000 points/night - Cat 5. Is this accurate? I assume the lower end of the range is for the one bedroom suite and upper is for 2 bedroom.

Not exactly. The range accounts for the usual difference in high and low seasons at a Category 5 property that has standard award availability. All this property has are suites. The lowest award for this resort is going to be in the range of 24,000 Starpoints per night in low season and 32,000 Starpoints per night in high season.

We need to get the web site updated with this information, however.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Therefore, if a category 4 property only had suites to offer for redemption, then it stands to reason that the standard suite award would be 20,000 Starpoints. Right?

And because standard suites are what Platinum members can get upgraded to, subject to availability, the hotel/resort does not have to upgrade any further. They can, if they wish, but they don't have to.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

William, regarding these two issues, not saying that SPG policy is right or wrong (it is what it is), but I can see how members can get all riled up about it.

1) The SPG hotel categories are based on ADR, which I think most members grasp. So, X ADR is equal to Cat 4, and Y ADR is equal to Cat 5. No problems there - this sounds perfectly logical. I think the problem lies with the room classification. Just because a hotel is all suite, I don't think it deserves a higher number of points for redemptions, as compared to a hotel within the same category, with a mixture of regular rooms and suites. I don't think most members would think a standard suite, at an all suite hotel, to be upgraded accomadations, and deserving of 2x the points. Bottom line is that if this room in this hotel costs $300, and a suite in this hotel also cost $300, a reasonable person would assume that the points required for redemption should be equal.

2) Standard suites... Yes, this SPG technicality is what it is. It seems to go against the spirit of the program. Upgrade to best available room (up to a limit, of course) would seem to be the more customer friendly policy. Did you guys ever think about changing the policy to this? This change would seem to be able to get all of your properties in line, without exceptions, which is where I think loyalty programs most easily lose loyal customers.

William, regarding these two issues, not saying that SPG policy is right or wrong (it is what it is), but I can see how members can get all riled up about it.

1) The SPG hotel categories are based on ADR, which I think most members grasp. So, X ADR is equal to Cat 4, and Y ADR is equal to Cat 5. No problems there - this sounds perfectly logical. I think the problem lies with the room classification. Just because a hotel is all suite, I don't think it deserves a higher number of points for redemptions, as compared to a hotel within the same category, with a mixture of regular rooms and suites. I don't think most members would think a standard suite, at an all suite hotel, to be upgraded accomadations, and deserving of 2x the points. Bottom line is that if this room in this hotel costs $300, and a suite in this hotel also cost $300, a reasonable person would assume that the points required for redemption should be equal.

I think you may be a little off assuming that a room at a regular resort property like the Westin in Grand Cayman and a suite at a all-suite property like Singer Island cost the same. That might be close to being the case at various and sundry Sheraton Suites properties, which do not charge twice as much. But, this isn't a Sheraton Suites. Other than that, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

2) Standard suites... Yes, this SPG technicality is what it is. It seems to go against the spirit of the program. Upgrade to best available room (up to a limit, of course) would seem to be the more customer friendly policy. Did you guys ever think about changing the policy to this? This change would seem to be able to get all of your properties in line, without exceptions, which is where I think loyalty programs most easily lose loyal customers.

No, we are not going to change the upgrade policy to any suite in the house. Like you said, it is what it is...standard suites. And, if a resort or hotel happens to have its lowest room category be a standard suite, then that is the letter of the program. We always celebrate when a property is willing to go above and beyond, but we aren't going to force them to.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I think you may be a little off assuming that a room at a regular resort property like the Westin in Grand Cayman and a suite at a all-suite property like Singer Island cost the same. That might be close to being the case at various and sundry Sheraton Suites properties, which do not charge twice as much. But, this isn't a Sheraton Suites. Other than that, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Just for kicks, I ran a quick price check on this hotel, plus another solid Cat 5 hotel - W NYC. The date in question is 8/20 to 8/21. Here is the price comparison:

The Resort at Singer Island - $249 for a base room, best available rate
W NYC - $349 for a base room, best available rate

Granted, this point in time comparison may not reflect true ADR's for each hotel. But, is the Singer Island resort really worth 24K pts vs the 12K pts for the W NYC on this date, just because it is all suite?

This is a pipe dream, but can we have points actually reflect price, though many FT'ers will probably disagree (think of all threads where someone claims they got .20 in value for each point)?

...This is a pipe dream, but can we have points actually reflect price, though many FT'ers will probably disagree (think of all threads where someone claims they got .20 in value for each point)?

That will all sort out eventually. If the Resort at Singer Island does not reach the ADR for a Category 5 property this year, then they'll be Category 4 next year.

But, based upon your snapshot, it seems more likely to me that the W NYC will be a Category 6 property next year and the Resort at Singer Island will simply maintain their Category 5 standing. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

We always celebrate when a property is willing to go above and beyond, but we aren't going to force them to.


Can you please describe the ongoings at such a celebration? Interested platinum members want to know, and if we are invited to the celebration :D

Can you please describe the ongoings at such a celebration? Interested platinum members want to know, and if we are invited to the celebration :D

LOL. Perhaps a poor word choice on my part.

But, the next time you are in Austin, I'll arrange for some cake and balloons if the Sheraton Austin gets you into a suite. ;)

Seeing as they only have two, I think we'll just have to stick to having a beer at the bar, though. :)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

The lowest award for this resort is going to be in the range of 24,000 Starpoints per night in low season and 32,000 Starpoints per night in high season.

We need to get the web site updated with this information, however.



William, in my experience the website is correct and doesn't need an update because it says
- it is a Cat 5
- it is suites only and you need to call for the exact rate.
This is what you will find at all other all suites hotels as well (Bora Bora Nui etc.).
Is it always double the normal award for suites? I recently called about the Bora Bora Nui and was quoted 50k per night by the SPG call centre in Singapore which is less than double the normal rate.

William, in my experience the website is correct and doesn't need an update because it says
- it is a Cat 5
- it is suites only and you need to call for the exact rate.
This is what you will find at all other all suites hotels as well (Bora Bora Nui etc.).

Thanks, but I was referring to the landing page for all Free Night award redemptions. Bora Bora Nui and the handful of other properties that have this configuration are mentioned, but the Resort at Singer Island seems to have been left off. Probably an oversight because they are so new.

Is it always double the normal award for suites? I recently called about the Bora Bora Nui and was quoted 50k per night by the SPG call centre in Singapore which is less than double the normal rate.

Normally, yes, but sometimes the high vs. low season thing can confuse the issue.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Bottom line is that if this room in this hotel costs $300, and a suite in this hotel also cost $300, a reasonable person would assume that the points required for redemption should be equal.

Yes, this is exactly my point. And I am a reasonable person. :D

Well... It is now 3 days since my email to the GM at singer island, and still no response....

Dear Mr. Lamers,

I am both a past and a future guest. I have a reservation for the end of september. I am also a Starwood Preferred Guest Platinum member.

I had my first stay about a week ago and thoroughly enjoyed the property, the room, the pool, etc, with the exception of one issue... The resort's inability to recognize SPG Platinums.

I only stayed a little while, as I was also trying out the new St Regis in Fort
Lauderdale, and returned to the Atlantic, a favorite of mine.

I understand that it is not required as per SPG terms and conditions (as your
front desk people clearly spelled out). I realize every room is a suite. But
I feel that you are i injustly treating Starwood's best customers with a
loophole in the SPG program.

On my previous stay, I booked a standard poolview room with the assumption of being upgraded to the best available 1 bedroom room at check-in. Which I
assumed would be an ocean-front one bedroom suite, as there were quite a few available during my stay. As usual, I called the front desk the evening before to request the upgrade and was shocked when I was told that, I am sorry since all of our rooms are "speciality suites" we do not upgrade. I spoke with the front desk manager and was given the same answer. (not a typical "luxury collection" response), but irregardless...

I called Starwood Platinum Concierge and changed my reservation to a room with a better view as I was not going to spoil my luxury collection experience with a poor view.

Every room is the same size, just a different view from the balcony. There is
no reason why the resort does not upgrade Starwood's most loyal customers to rooms with better views.

I can understand not upgrading to two-bedroom suites, or even ocean front
suites. But the least that can be done is to upgrade one or two levels for
Starwood's best customers.

I have stayed many times at "The Atlantic", also a luxury collection
condo/hotel, and have always been upgraded from a basic suite to a Luxury Ocean Front Suite or Penthouse suite without question or even request. I am always pre-blocked into the best available suite.

I have also recently stayed at the St Regis Fort Lauderdale and was upgraded from a basic intercoastal view room to an Ocean Front suite.

I have been a Starwood Platinum Guest for over 5 years and consistently stay at least 50 stays per year at Starwood properties, all of which are leisure and non-business related. I stay at least 4-5 times per year in south florida and was hoping to include the Resort at Singer Island as one of my stops. However, I do not wish to stay at properties that do not recognize Starwood's Best Customers. The Platinum Preferred Guest Members. Without upgrades and other benefits, there is no reason to stay loyal.

In conclusion, if you wish to retain customers, retain loyal Starwood
customers, the property needs to rethink it platinum room upgrade process.

Well... It is now 3 days since my email to the GM at singer island, and still no response....


I have been a Starwood Platinum Guest for over 5 years and consistently stay at least 50 stays per year at Starwood properties, all of which are leisure and non-business related. I stay at least 4-5 times per year in south florida and was hoping to include the Resort at Singer Island as one of my stops. However, I do not wish to stay at properties that do not recognize Starwood's Best Customers. The Platinum Preferred Guest Members. Without upgrades and other benefits, there is no reason to stay loyal.

In conclusion, if you wish to retain customers, retain loyal Starwood
customers, the property needs to rethink it platinum room upgrade process.

I have never had this situation happen to me and my personal experience has been that SPG properties have always given me the best possible upgrade as opposed the minimum possible.I certainly agree that they need to consistently look after their most loyal guests .

Starwood Lurker and a couple of other posters have compared this "all-suite" property to the Bora Bora Nui.

Let me assure you, there is NO comparison.

The Bora Bora Nui might be expensive, but it has a superb and customer-centric Manager (Rui Reis). He could hide behind the line "all our base rooms are standard suites, so we don't have to upgrade anyone" but he doesn't.

Instead, Senor Reis' staff at the Bora Bora Nui go out of their way to recognise SPG Elite status, and to upgrade elite guests if space permits.

And what he understands, and certain fools in Florida do not, is that when an upmarket hotel recognises elite guests they will direct their loyalty back to the hotel. Since the Bora Bora Nui first upgraded me in 2004 I've paid for 24 nights there, and have already booked a return 8 night stay for next year.

If you go to the InterContinental forum you will find that the Mark Hopkins in San Francisco shows similar contempt for that chain's highest yield customers. My advice is to avoid such hotels like the plague, and direct your custom elsewhere.

...is the Singer Island resort really worth 24K pts vs the 12K pts for the W NYC on this date, just because it is all suite? ...

I don't know. Tell me if you think the 750 square foot base (room as you call it) suite at the Resort at Singer Island is worth twice as much as the 170 square foot base room at the W NYC. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I don't know. Tell me if you think the 750 square foot base (room as you call it) suite at the Resort at Singer Island is worth twice as much as the 170 square foot base room at the W NYC. ;)
The people that pay with cash apparently don't think so. Why should the people that pay with points feel any different?

The people that pay with cash apparently don't think so. Why should the people that pay with points feel any different?

Run this by me again, please. Someone takes one day out of a 365-day calendar year and that makes it the gospel? I think we need to look at the bigger picture rather than a snippet. Regardless, demand reflects price, so the paid with cash issue isn't really relevant in a case like this. It might be relevant to be able to say I got a X cents return on my points, but not to compare redemption value. Rooms in NYC are more in demand than suites on Singer Island, so they get more money for less space. But, which would you really value more? A suite in a resort destination for 24-32K or a room in a metropolitan city for 12-16K?

Ergo, like I said before, look for the W NYC to be Category 6 next year and Singer Island to remain at Category 5. You heard it here first. ;)

By the way, if we really want to compare apples to apples, the suite at the W NYC is going to be the same 24,000 - 32,000 Starpoints as the suite at the Resort at Singer Island.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

William, I agree with you, a 1 day example does not tell the entire picture. Still, if the Singer Resort does remain at Cat 5 next year, members would be looking at a redemption spread of between 24K and 36K pts, still higher than the W NYC even at Cat 6, where the range will be 20K to 25K. That will still be a miserable value given that W NYC will cost substantially more dollars.

Regardless, demand reflects price, so the paid with cash issue isn't really relevant in a case like this.
guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Are you saying here that points redemption in some instances, is not reflective of ADR or equivalent cash cost for room, but rather is more aligned with the points redemption demands on a property - e.g., higher points redemption rates at a hotel, will lead to higher points required? If so, this is news to me, but I may have been naive.



By the way, if we really want to compare apples to apples, the suite at the W NYC is going to be the same 24,000 - 32,000 Starpoints as the suite at the Resort at Singer Island.
guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I would disagree that this is an apples to apples comparison, as I thought redemption values are purely based on ADR, and whatever category the hotel falls in. In this comparison, the suite at W NYC would be $700+ vs. the $249 at Singer Island.

...Are you saying here that points redemption in some instances, is not reflective of ADR or equivalent cash cost for room, but rather is more aligned with the points redemption demands on a property - e.g., higher points redemption rates at a hotel, will lead to higher points required? If so, this is news to me, but I may have been naive.

No, what I'm saying is that ADR drives the category status a hotel has. If a hotel is able to extract more dollars for their space, then rates naturally go up. If a hotel is able charge higher rates, their ADR goes up and so does their category status.

I would disagree that this is an apples to apples comparison, as I thought redemption values are purely based on ADR, and whatever category the hotel falls in. In this comparison, the suite at W NYC would be $700+ vs. the $249 at Singer Island.

Well, then we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. A standard suite in any Category 5 property is going to cost the same number of Starpoints and that is just the way its going to be, regardless of what the suite may go for cash-wise in a given location or a given date.

Besides, we are talking about a suite in NYC that is 300 square feet as opposed to 750, so I guess we are comparing granny smiths to red delicious. Some prefer one over the other for whatever reason, but they cost the same. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Ergo, like I said before, look for the W NYC to be Category 6 next year and Singer Island to remain at Category 5. You heard it here first. ;)

By the way, if we really want to compare apples to apples, the suite at the W NYC is going to be the same 24,000 - 32,000 Starpoints as the suite at the Resort at Singer Island.
Well, knowing that the ADR for the W NYC is actually on the fringe of pushing it into Cat6 level, I didn't pick the W NYC as an example. My pick for a more sensible comparison was the Westin in Grand Cayman with 0 suites. But there are others that I could choose from as well: the Westin Key West, either of the properties in Los Cabos, or the Atlantic.

You know very well that a suite at any W in downtown NYC is worth well more than a suite on the Florida coast. Starpoints are not just a philosophical "currency." (Though I fear that someone might try to argue that they are just for the sake of arguing. :p)

Do you really believe in what you are saying in your side of the argument, or are you just saying what you have to say because this is the current stance of SPG? (Perhaps a rhetorical question.)

...Do you really believe in what you are saying in your side of the argument, or are you just saying what you have to say because this is the current stance of SPG? (Perhaps a rhetorical question.)

I don't have any compunction about supporting SPG in this issue. A Cat5 standard suite worldwide is 24,000 - 32,000 Starpoints and a Cat standard room is 12,000 - 16,000 Starpoints as far as redemption is concerned, regardless of what amount of cash can be paid for either on a given date in a given location. To have it any other way would create utter chaos and the high/low season thing is confusing enough as it is, frankly.

So, yes, I really do believe that the standard suite in Singer Island is priced right for redemption in comparison to a standard room in NYC.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I can accept that. But not if this property is categorized as a Cat5. It seems to me that this property is miscategorized.

SPG Categories are not like AAA ratings or a measure of how relaxed they make you feel at the end of the week. They're based on room rates. And the suite rate of this property is very disproportionate to the suite rate at other properties in the same category.

I got chastised by a fellow FTer once before for asking why Sheraton Suites properties are not treated the same way. As if I was pointing out something that SPG staff didn't already know. Well, why aren't they? Why doesn't an award room at the Cat3 Sheraton Suites Galleria Atlanta cost a whopping 14,000 Starpoints?

I can accept that. But not if this property is categorized as a Cat5. It seems to me that this property is miscategorized.

SPG Categories are not like AAA ratings or a measure of how relaxed they make you feel at the end of the week. They're based on room rates. And the suite rate of this property is very disproportionate to the suite rate at other properties in the same category.[quote]

It may indeed be miscategorized at the moment or it may be right on track. We won't know that until early next year. After all, this will be their first year as an SPG property, so the numbers have to go on projected sales. If they don't measure up, then it will be corrected. If they do, then they will remain where they are.

[quote]I got chastised by a fellow FTer once before for asking why Sheraton Suites properties are not treated the same way. As if I was pointing out something that SPG staff didn't already know. Well, why aren't they? Why doesn't an award room at the Cat3 Sheraton Suites Galleria Atlanta cost a whopping 14,000 Starpoints?

Is this really something you want us to consider? Or would you rather just be able to have it the way it is? (Maybe a rhetorical question.) ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

It may indeed be miscategorized at the moment or it may be right on track. We won't know that until early next year. After all, this will be their first year as an SPG property, so the numbers have to go on projected sales. If they don't measure up, then it will be corrected. If they do, then they will remain where they are.

You won't know if your formula simply equates the ADR at this all-suite hotel with the ADR at a mixed-room hotel. If the current formula is that simple, then it ought to be rethought.


Is this really something you want us to consider? Or would you rather just be able to have it the way it is? (Maybe a rhetorical question.) ;)

Of course this is not something that I would like to be considered. I think that it is sensible the way it is for Sheraton Suites properties. I never pay over $120 for this location. Instead, I'd like some sense in the way it is for other all-suites properties. I have no idea what prompted this senselessness at Singer Island. But if there is a reason that this is different than Sheraton Suites, I'd like to hear it. If there's not a reason, I'd like to hear that, too.

Imagine... a night at the Sheraton Suites Galleria costing more Starpoints than the Westin Buckhead. :eek: Personally, I have almost no vested interest in the categorization of the Sheraton Suites Galleria anymore. When I started staying there, it was a Cat2, and my negotiated rate was $69. It's ADR has crept up because of local demand during the business week and some minor room renovations. The cash price on weekends are usually significantly cheaper, yet the Starpoints price is now the same as during the week. And there are several better Starwoods in the area with the same category. There are plenty of other SPG members who would recognize the same thing, and I think it would be foolish for SPG to consider trying to charge double points for a room there.

I've held off posting to see how this played out for the OP. I stayed 3 nights this past weekend. It was a special occasion (Wife's 40 BD) and my own booking snafu required me to link two reservations. I sent an email to the GM which received a phone call from the Front Desk Mgr within 4 hours. She was kind enough to link the reservations and noted that while I was SPG Gold they would look at upgrading me on check-in. I booked Ocean view. When we checked in we were not told of any upgrade but they did confirm the two reservations had been linked and would not cause any problems. Our room was 517 which was an oceanfront suite so in fact we did receive an upgrade to the best single bed unit.^ The room and the service at this resort were 9 out of 10. Our only issue was the Spa and F&B credits did not appear at checkout for the packages booked but it was quickly fixed.

As far as comparisons to the W in NYC, try comparing rates for March 2008 and you will see that Singer Island’s lowest priced room is $739. On a separate note I was allowed to view a 2 bedroom unit (1200sq ft), which we may book for a family trip next year, and was amazed at the size of each bedroom, bathroom and living area. If anyone’s interested in these units note that all rooms which end in 08 (208, 308, 408, etc.) are all two bedroom units but also have a separate dining table and kitchen bar whereas the other two bedroom units only have the bar.

In response to DallaStarwooDelta.......

I Still ... two emails and three days later have have yet to receive any reponse from the hotel.

FWIW, I stayed last week at The Resort on Singer Island and was also not upgraded as a platinum.

Instead of complaining about the situation, maybe the best course of action is to get the GM of the hotel to speak to DiplomatAmy or others in the Starwood system about the benefits that accompany treating SPG Platinums well.

I am reasonably certain that if the GM understood the goodwill and incremental business generated he would have a change of heart.

I find it really odd... but it has been almost two weeks since my first email to the GM of the Resort at Singer Island. And even after two emails I have still yet to have a response.

Starwood Lurker: is this common for hotel GMs to not respond to emails/letters from guests?

I haven't read every single word of this lengthy thread, but I've just scanned through it and I'm disappointed.

If I am understanding correctly, this hotel (being a high end all suites property) supports no form of further upgrade for Platinum guests. Unlike Starwood, I disagree with that decision and it's not out of greed on my part.

It seems to me that the spirit of the SPG program includes a consistent goal of acknowledging their highest frequency guests. We all know that usually means higher floors, club floors, occasional suites, good views, etc.

Consistent with the SPG program would be a plan to give Platinum members some consideration at the Singer Island property that would not necessarily mean larger deluxe suites, but would surely include high floors, ocean views or ocean front rooms, etc, etc. These are all gestures that are well within the boundaries of reason and fully within the control of the hotel.

(And, remember, these rooms would never be available as Plat upgrades if, indeed, they had sold for street prices to other guests.)

This location is not a place I'm likely to visit anytime soon, but if I were to visit, I'd be sorely disappointed to meet up with a front desk staff that made no effort to accomodate me as a Platinum guest with a better view or corner room, etc.

In short, from where I'm sitting, that really seems to violate the spirit of the SPG program. I don't see how Starwood can disagree with me on this one.

You won't know if your formula simply equates the ADR at this all-suite hotel with the ADR at a mixed-room hotel. If the current formula is that simple, then it ought to be rethought.

And this is why sc flier is so clearly right in this debate.

Imagine two hypothetical SPG properties right next door to each other. One is all suites (but not a Sheraton Suites). The other is not. However, the non-suite property has much nicer common areas, better amenities, and better appointed rooms. As a result, the two properties have the same ADR, and are therefore in the same redemption category.

However, when using *points, the all-suites property costs twice as many points. Something's clearly amiss here.

sbtineme, as I wrote earlier in this thread, there are high-class Starwood hotels like the Bora Bora Nui which upgrade Platinums even though they could hide behind the wording of the rules and avoid upgrades because even the base room type is a specialty suite.

And there are badly-run, no-class hotels like the Resort at Singer Island which do choose to hide behind the wording of the rules, and which see it as an opportunity to nickel and dime guests.

Much as I like William, and appreciate his work, I have to say that this is the fault of Starwood's corporate office.

Firstly, the weasel words "select standard suite" have obviously been designed to permit and indeed encourage this sort of behavior.

Secondly, consider the outrageous example of the "St Regis" Lanesborough in London, which Starwood permits to offer neither points nor elite recognition. If Starwood had the integrity we expect they would say "if we have management rights then you participate fully in the program, or you get some other chain to manage you". But no, so desperate were they for a luxury property in London to call a St Regis that they agreed to dump on their most loyal clients.

I recently considered buying enough Starwood Vacation Ownership time to be "Platinum for life". Except events like these have left me cynical as to how Starwood can devalue (sorry, I mean "enhance") Platinum status - "enhance" it to offering an automatic one category upgrade at time of reservation, for example, or upgrades to the Best Available Room or select standard suite subject to a "qualifying room rate" (i.e. rack rate).

I find it really odd... but it has been almost two weeks since my first email to the GM of the Resort at Singer Island. And even after two emails I have still yet to have a response.

Starwood Lurker: is this common for hotel GMs to not respond to emails/letters from guests?

No, I would think that to be abby-normal. ;) Are you certain the messages got through?

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com