Practical Travel Safety Issues - Hygiene: Can I request not to take my shoes off?

The thought of walking over that filthy floor in my socks is horrible. Plus, I have a plantar wart on the bottom of one of my feet, although it'd be covered by the socks.

While we're on the subject, is there any way to avoid putting my expensive suit jacket into that disgusting, never-cleaned gray box which everyone's shoes have been in?

I too find the shoe take off thing disgusting. I haven't raised much of a fuss about it, though I do mumble how gross it is while waiting for them to come out of the x ray.

I tend to take them off at the very last second, I don't take them off well far back in the line like the sheeple.

Also, if the xray is far from the wtmd, I do sometimes mention this is disgusting to the TSO, in a nice way. The more they get the message, the more the slight possibility this unsanitary practice will end.

I tend to take them off at the very last second, I don't take them off well far back in the line like the sheeple.

Also, if the xray is far from the wtmd, I do sometimes mention this is disgusting to the TSO, in a nice way. The more they get the message, the more the slight possibility this unsanitary practice will end.


The TSO's are just sheep too. We should make KH take off his shoes and walk around in the filth he calls airport security.

While we're on the subject, is there any way to avoid putting my expensive suit jacket into that disgusting, never-cleaned gray box which everyone's shoes have been in?Last time I brought paper towels to put on the bottom of the bin. Or you could bring a large plastic bag to protect it.

The TSO's are just sheep too. We should make KH take off his shoes and walk around in the filth he calls airport security.

If you ask Spiff, Kippie is filth. He'd make the airport floor even worse.

Or you could bring a large plastic bag to protect it.

Good idea.

Will the screeners allow little blue paper booties for the feet - like the ones you sometimes see at 'Open-houses' or at hospitals? Maybe that would satisfy OPs footwear issue.

DD

Will the screeners allow little blue paper booties for the feet - like the ones you sometimes see at 'Open-houses' or at hospitals? Maybe that would satisfy OPs footwear issue.

DD

They are provided in the security line at Little Rock.

Will the screeners allow little blue paper booties for the feet - like the ones you sometimes see at 'Open-houses' or at hospitals? Maybe that would satisfy OPs footwear issue.

DD

I buy them on e-bay. Kinda funny since I sell Medical equipment :p Usually get them in lots of 24-50, and carry at least 4 pairs in my backpack on every trip. I refuse to walk thru airports barefoot. I get a few strange looks, but then I hear quite a few "why didn't we think of that?"

Last time I brought paper towels to put on the bottom of the bin. Or you could bring a large plastic bag to protect it.

Sure enough, one of the TSA would tell you it's not allowed since it's over 1 qt.....:td:

Safe travels
Tim

The "temple socks" I used in SE Asia are now my "(in)security socks." Just can't do summer/sandal weather without them. If you see someone dancing around on one foot putting on socks as she approaches the belt, that would likely be me.

I too find the shoe take off thing disgusting. I haven't raised much of a fuss about it, though I do mumble how gross it is while waiting for them to come out of the x ray.

I tend to take them off at the very last second, I don't take them off well far back in the line like the sheeple.

Also, if the xray is far from the wtmd, I do sometimes mention this is disgusting to the TSO, in a nice way. The more they get the message, the more the slight possibility this unsanitary practice will end.

I always remind the passenger that they're about to spend several hours in a tin can with several hundred other people breathing in recirculated oxygen... ;)

I always remind the passenger that they're about to spend several hours in a tin can with several hundred other people breathing in recirculated oxygen... ;)

It's really only 50% recirculated. ;)

Will the screeners allow little blue paper booties for the feet - like the ones you sometimes see at 'Open-houses' or at hospitals? Maybe that would satisfy OPs footwear issue.I've brought those, too. Just be careful taking them off after they have touched that foul floor.

The thought of walking over that filthy floor in my socks is horrible. Plus, I have a plantar wart on the bottom of one of my feet, although it'd be covered by the socks.

While we're on the subject, is there any way to avoid putting my expensive suit jacket into that disgusting, never-cleaned gray box which everyone's shoes have been in?

Providing that you are wearing a substantial pair of shoes and not loafers or flip-flops, just tell them you have orthopedic shoes and can't take them off. You'll have to get them swabbed but they can't force you to remove them NOR require you to explain the reason for wearing "orthopedic" shoes. Works for me.

Providing that you are wearing a substantial pair of shoes and not loafers or flip-flops, just tell them you have orthopedic shoes and can't take them off. You'll have to get them swabbed but they can't force you to remove them NOR require you to explain the reason for wearing "orthopedic" shoes. Works for me.

A big DITTO here.

I've seen people use the shower caps from hotels (the plastic ones with elastic) to cover their feet.

I've brought those, too. Just be careful taking them off after they have touched that foul floor.

Ok, we can figure this out... pinch the bootie between your first two toes; then, grab the bootie from the achilles heal area and pull them off inside out! Throw them into a baggie for disposal... All those with OCD, raise your hand (^)

Btw, Dr. Wanderlust, using hotel shower caps is a great idea since they almost never get used for their intended purpose :cool:

DD

MSY provides disposeable booties for people like me who can't stand the thought of walking barefoot on the gross airport floor.

The TSA agent was wondering why I was standing there with my feet all scrunched up and sideways.

She told me they have booties.

I don't know if all airports have them.

I am a diabetic and frequently have foot ulcers that can take several months to heal. After the Ricard Reid incident, the TSA started "requesting" people to take off their shoes (even though X-rays don't detect explosives). I usually complied as I just wanted to get through the harassment lines that try to pass for security. While coming from someplace in Canada through DTW on my way home, the TSA lady barker told me to take off my shoes. I complied and walked through the WTMD. The barker then asked me what that red stuff was I just tracked through the WTMD. Blood had soaked through my bandage and socks and got tracked on the floor. This shut down that security lane until they could get it cleaned up. The barker then got mad at me for causing this shutdown (although her supervisor apologized to me and sent her off to another line).

I told my doctor about the incident at my next appointment and was chastised for taking my shoes off in the first place (I haven't removed them going through security since then). Having a blood-soaked bandage isn't the normal rule unless I have been traveling all day and haven't had a chance to change things out. However, the risk of infection is there. Considering how long it takes for those woulds to heal and the fact that I spent a week in the hospital taking care on one ulcer back in March, I just refuse to remove them (after explaining why). Ofttimes I get a retaliatory secondary or an ignorant screener who thinks he has to do a complete booty pat down, but I just take their name and file a report with the airport FSD.

I have a few pair of no-slip socks that I carry with me, the type they give out to patients in the hospital. They are substantial enough to protect my feet when walking through and not as slippery as the disposable ones provided by some airports. I bring baggies with me to hold them after they get used and then wash them at home between trips. It's yet another pain point added to what travel is today, on top of the stupid baggie and increased cost of toiletries like toothpaste for traveling.

GeorgiaRebel - your doctor was totally right. As a diabetic, you should not go barefoot in any public place. My mother has similar issues with her feet that has me fairly paranoid for myself at this point, her infections were finally stopped but actions beyond medicine were being discussed at one point.

The TSO's are just sheep too. We should make KH take off his shoes and walk around in the filth he calls airport security.

All TSA employees should work w/o shoes on to demonstrate that it's safe to do this. Do a study to see how much their rate of foot infections, warts, etc. increases.

Of course that would probably be illegal under workplace safety regulations. :mad:

I am a diabetic and frequently have foot ulcers that can take several months to heal. After the Ricard Reid incident, the TSA started "requesting" people to take off their shoes (even though X-rays don't detect explosives). I usually complied as I just wanted to get through the harassment lines that try to pass for security. While coming from someplace in Canada through DTW on my way home, the TSA lady barker told me to take off my shoes. I complied and walked through the WTMD. The barker then asked me what that red stuff was I just tracked through the WTMD. Blood had soaked through my bandage and socks and got tracked on the floor. This shut down that security lane until they could get it cleaned up. The barker then got mad at me for causing this shutdown (although her supervisor apologized to me and sent her off to another line).

I told my doctor about the incident at my next appointment and was chastised for taking my shoes off in the first place (I haven't removed them going through security since then). Having a blood-soaked bandage isn't the normal rule unless I have been traveling all day and haven't had a chance to change things out. However, the risk of infection is there. Considering how long it takes for those woulds to heal and the fact that I spent a week in the hospital taking care on one ulcer back in March, I just refuse to remove them (after explaining why). Ofttimes I get a retaliatory secondary or an ignorant screener who thinks he has to do a complete booty pat down, but I just take their name and file a report with the airport FSD.you have two options and in both cases you should not be taking your shoes off.


tell the screener that you are diabetic and have foot ulcers and taking your shoes off poses a health risk to you.

have your doctor give you a letter on his/her letterhead explaing the above and show it to the screeners
carry a copy of this with you (http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/assets/pdf/special_needs_memo.pdf). page 3 is where it's at and this may/may not get you by without the above but it has never failed me with my wearing orthotics (see below)


n.b. never let the letter or tsa memo out of your sight-if they start to walk off to show it someone else, stop them and politely ask that the other person come to you..

in either case, do not take your shoes off but willingly offer to have secondary on your shoes. that's what i do when i tell ths screeners "i am wearing orthotics and i'll need a secondary swab on my shoes". if they ask what happened, i simply say "ankle surgery" and that's it. if they ask "can you take your shoes off", i simply tell them "no and your poilicy forbids you from asking me that". this tact should aslo work for you as well.

I am a diabetic and frequently have foot ulcers that can take several months to heal. After the Ricard Reid incident, the TSA started "requesting" people to take off their shoes (even though X-rays don't detect explosives). I usually complied as I just wanted to get through the harassment lines that try to pass for security. While coming from someplace in Canada through DTW on my way home, the TSA lady barker told me to take off my shoes. I complied and walked through the WTMD. The barker then asked me what that red stuff was I just tracked through the WTMD. Blood had soaked through my bandage and socks and got tracked on the floor. This shut down that security lane until they could get it cleaned up. The barker then got mad at me for causing this shutdown (although her supervisor apologized to me and sent her off to another line).

I told my doctor about the incident at my next appointment and was chastised for taking my shoes off in the first place (I haven't removed them going through security since then). Having a blood-soaked bandage isn't the normal rule unless I have been traveling all day and haven't had a chance to change things out. However, the risk of infection is there. Considering how long it takes for those woulds to heal and the fact that I spent a week in the hospital taking care on one ulcer back in March, I just refuse to remove them (after explaining why). Ofttimes I get a retaliatory secondary or an ignorant screener who thinks he has to do a complete booty pat down, but I just take their name and file a report with the airport FSD.

Everybody with diabetes needs to refuse to remove their shoes. If that would happen, maybe the TSA would finally begin to get the message that it's unhealthy to be tramping over filthy floors sans shoes.

I recently was unable to take my shoes off due to foot surgery, and had a note stating that from my Dr. They took me over for the secondary, and said I had to remove my shoes because "they alarmed" and had to be put through the x-ray.

I will be flying again in two weeks. Do I have to remove the shoes if they alarm?

I recently was unable to take my shoes off due to foot surgery, and had a note stating that from my Dr. They took me over for the secondary, and said I had to remove my shoes because "they alarmed" and had to be put through the x-ray.

I will be flying again in two weeks. Do I have to remove the shoes if they alarm?

No, you do not have to remove your shoes if you have a medical condition. AND they cannot ask you about your condition. If they try to push it, just ask if they have a medical degree and advise that they are coming close to violating medical privacy. Call for a supervisor.

They should only swab your shoes, but if you get a screener with attitude, you're likely to face a groping.

See goalie's post above and print out his link.

I recently was unable to take my shoes off due to foot surgery, and had a note stating that from my Dr. They took me over for the secondary, and said I had to remove my shoes because "they alarmed" and had to be put through the x-ray.

I will be flying again in two weeks. Do I have to remove the shoes if they alarm?are you sure it was your shoes that alarmed? how did they alarm-during your walk thru the wtmd or with the hand wand? do you have any metal pins in your foot? if the hand wand, did it physically touch your shoes? if it did physically touch your shoes, that is a screener ploy as physical contact with the hand wand will cause an alarm. if that is the case, ask the screener to re-screen your shoes but a) get a new wand, b) have them turn it on in front of you and c) tell the screener not to touch your shoes with it as it WILL alarm due to physical contact. if no alarm, simply remind the screener that all that is required is an edt swab of your shoes (and perhaps your palms). if you have metal pins in your foot, tell the screener as that might be causing the alarm and if that is the case, then you definitely do not have to remove your shoes as that is a medical condtion but i would have your doctor's letter modified to reflect that.

as i posted above in post #22, you do not have to remove your shoes if you have a medical condition and/or are wearing some sort of othopedic device nor are the screeners allowed to a) ask what your condition is* or ask you/require you to remove your shoes.

*i wil volunteer that info but only basic info-i.e. i've had ankle surgery but that's all they get

Providing that you are wearing a substantial pair of shoes and not loafers or flip-flops, just tell them you have orthopedic shoes and can't take them off. You'll have to get them swabbed but they can't force you to remove them NOR require you to explain the reason for wearing "orthopedic" shoes. Works for me.


I do wear orthotics. The last time I kept my shoes on I got the full molester pat down, not the "swab only" I should have gotten. I wasn't SSSSed and I didn't set off the WTMD. The WTMD screener asked "what are orthotics?" before he sent me for a full secondary. I tried to tell him I only needed a swab since I didn't alarm and got an arrogant "Oh really? Hmmmm..." answer.

I do wear orthotics. The last time I kept my shoes on I got the full molester pat down, not the "swab only" I should have gotten. I wasn't SSSSed and I didn't set off the WTMD.


Did you file a complaint? If not, you certainly should have done so.

Did you file a complaint? If not, you certainly should have done so.

I talked to the supervisor and got the necessary information (badge numbers and last names) and then misplaced the information before I got home. I was rather annoyed with myself for that. The supervisor was very polite and did acknowledge I was "mostly" right when I said that I understood the proper procedure was swab only when I didn't alarm the WTMD. Mr. Teeny-Peeny looked a bit uncomfortable when he was called over for me to get his badge # and name.

I was also annoyed with the female screener because she wouldn't listen to me either. She just kept saying to me "If you'll just be quiet we can get this over quickly" instead of answering my questions. I think she knew Mr. T-P was wrong but wouldn't say so to a passenger.

I wore my shoes through and did not alarm the WTMD. They proceeded to do a full body patdown and did a bag search. No one was able to explain to me why they needed to do that if the only problem was my shoes.

Mike

I wore my shoes through and did not alarm the WTMD. They proceeded to do a full body patdown and did a bag search. No one was able to explain to me why they needed to do that if the only problem was my shoes.

Mikethey were flat out wrong :mad: and i would have told them that tsa policy is that if there is no alarm with shoes on, it is a swab and that's it. the patdown is fine as i run about 50/50 with it but they need to have cause to look in your bag-either SSSS or something showed up on the x-ray machine (and they are required to tell you what they are looking at/for).

they were flat out wrong :mad: and i would have told them that tsa policy is that if there is no alarm with shoes on, it is a swab and that's it. the patdown is fine as i run about 50/50 with it but they need to have cause to look in your bag-either SSSS or something showed up on the x-ray machine (and they are required to tell you what they are looking at/for).

That's what I thought. I've looked on the TSA website and couldn't find anything on this topic. Do we have an idea of where I could find the official policy on this?

Thanks!
Mike

they were flat out wrong :mad: and i would have told them that tsa policy is that if there is no alarm with shoes on, it is a swab and that's it. the patdown is fine as i run about 50/50 with it but they need to have cause to look in your bag-either SSSS or something showed up on the x-ray machine (and they are required to tell you what they are looking at/for).

Done under the guise of "continuous screening?"

Everybody with diabetes needs to refuse to remove their shoes. If that would happen, maybe the TSA would finally begin to get the message that it's unhealthy to be tramping over filthy floors sans shoes.

Excellent suggestion! Better yet, if everyone refused to go shoeless on a particular day, they'd really get the message. It could be called "National Shoe Day" or something like that. The TSA couldn't ground everybody for refusing to participate in their sick and disgusting ritual, which has absolutely nothing to do with security.

Excellent suggestion! Better yet, if everyone refused to go shoeless on a particular day, they'd really get the message. It could be called "National Shoe Day" or something like that. The TSA couldn't ground everybody for refusing to participate in their sick and disgusting ritual, which has absolutely nothing to do with security.

Out of "an abundance of caution," Kippie would probably ground all aircraft on that day. :mad:

Done under the guise of "continuous screening?"

This was exactly the excuse the supervisor gave me at MKE today when I was groped after not taking my shoes off and not setting off the magnetometer. :td:

And I told him what I thought of his "excuse"... :rolleyes:

Out of "an abundance of caution," Kippie would probably ground all aircraft on that day. :mad:

Maybe he would. Of course, that would cause an enormous outpouring of protest from the airlines, not to mention the abundance of outrage from most pax. It would certainly help to make the public aware of just how useless and unsanitary the shoe carnival is.

. The TSA couldn't ground everybody for refusing to participate in their sick and disgusting ritual, which has absolutely nothing to do with security.

Sick and disgusting? That's a wee bit harsh, eh? Considering what's happening in Afganastan, what you described is just a tip toe through the tulips. :p

Sick and disgusting? That's a wee bit harsh, eh? Considering what's happening in Afganastan, what you described is just a tip toe through the tulips. :p

The United States is a developed country. Here, people normally do not walk around in public buildings barefoot or in their stocking feet. As another poster mentioned, winter weather means sloppy conditions. Most airport restrooms have liquid of one sort or another on the floors, which liquid then gets tracked all over, including the floors at checkpoints. There is a reason why life expectancy has historically been lower in Afghanistan than it is here in the United States.

Better yet, if everyone refused to go shoeless on a particular day, they'd really get the message. It could be called "National Shoe Day" or something like that. The TSA couldn't ground everybody for refusing to participate in their sick and disgusting ritual, which has absolutely nothing to do with security.

I think it's a great idea. Set a date 6 months in the future and start to organize a national day of civil disobedience at the airports.

I think it's a great idea. Set a date 6 months in the future and start to organize a national day of civil disobedience at the airports.

Great idea - but it will never happen.

This was exactly the excuse the supervisor gave me at MKE today when I was groped after not taking my shoes off and not setting off the magnetometer. :td:

And I told him what I thought of his "excuse"... :rolleyes:

Didn't think they'd even let you thru without taking your shoes off any more. At least what I had been hearing, secondary wasn't an option anymore. If it is, I'll be keeping my shoes on again.

I thought it was ridiculous my 2 year old son's sandals had to be removed. :td:

The United States is a developed country. Here, people normally do not walk around in public buildings barefoot or in their stocking feet. As another poster mentioned, winter weather means sloppy conditions. Most airport restrooms have liquid of one sort or another on the floors, which liquid then gets tracked all over, including the floors at checkpoints. There is a reason why life expectancy has historically been lower in Afghanistan than it is here in the United States.

I agree that this is a highly disgusting behaviour we're being demanded to follow. So, my question is: Why doesn't the Health Department get involved?? Certainly people from there also travel and have to go through the shoe carnival - how can they not see what we see and do something about it?

DD

I agree that this is a highly disgusting behaviour we're being demanded to follow. So, my question is: Why doesn't the Health Department get involved?? Certainly people from there also travel and have to go through the shoe carnival - how can they not see what we see and do something about it?

DD

It would certainly help to make the public aware of just how useless and unsanitary the shoe carnival is.

I think a short walk with shoes off is hardly going to be a health risk (for those without a medical condition) even less of a risk if your wearing socks.

I would say about 99% of passengers who take their shoes off on board don't put them back on before going to the toilet - there is your health risk.

I see it all the time and the only good thing to come out of that is I don't need to mop the toilet floors since all the passengers socks are doing it for me! (of course I still clean the floor - just making a point)

Taking your shoes off for 5 seconds should be the least of your worries. If your putting a plastic cover over your feet, make sure you put one on your seat, on the plane floor, on the... actually would someone invent a plane condom - that way we can all be safe!

I think a short walk with shoes off is hardly going to be a health risk (for those without a medical condition) even less of a risk if your wearing socks.

I would say about 99% of passengers who take their shoes off on board don't put them back on before going to the toilet - there is your health risk.

I see it all the time and the only good thing to come out of that is I don't need to mop the toilet floors since all the passengers socks are doing it for me! (of course I still clean the floor - just making a point)

Taking your shoes off for 5 seconds should be the least of your worries. If your putting a plastic cover over your feet, make sure you put one on your seat, on the plane floor, on the... actually would someone invent a plane condom - that way we can all be safe!


I find it a truely disgusting process. And then we get to put our feet back in our shoes. I don't even walk around my own home (or any other) without slippers on my feet.

As for pax going to the lav in stocking feet... Eeeeewwww! Some people weren't brought up - they were dragged! :D Actually, if that is their choice, who am I to judge? It's what I choose for myself and what I am being obliged to do to which I am objecting.

DD

I agree that this is a highly disgusting behaviour we're being demanded to follow. So, my question is: Why doesn't the Health Department get involved?? Certainly people from there also travel and have to go through the shoe carnival - how can they not see what we see and do something about it?

DD

Health Department does not get involved because national security/Shoe Carnival trumps public health and basic hygiene. I called CDC one day and asked about its position on walking around airports without shoes. The woman who took my call basically told me to bug off. TSA practices (shoe carnival, screeners rummaging through luggage and bags without changing gloves) are far more likely to spread disease than to stop terrorists.

Health Department does not get involved because national security/Shoe Carnival trumps public health and basic hygiene. I called CDC one day and asked about its position on walking around airports without shoes. The woman who took my call basically told me to bug off. TSA practices (shoe carnival, screeners rummaging through luggage and bags without changing gloves) are far more likely to spread disease than to stop terrorists.


^ For your efforts

:td::td: For their response

Last month saw a lady in LAX while TSA insisted her to took off her sandal & broke her pretty long painted red toe nails, she asked TSA for the compensation of fixing her toe nails, don't know the outcome as I was rushing to the gate to catch my flight...

TSA practices (shoe carnival, screeners rummaging through luggage and bags without changing gloves) are far more likely to spread disease than to stop terrorists.Can you provide any data whatsoever to support that assertion? Even one proven case of some disease being caught from a TSA screener's gloves?

You can request anything you want, but the TSA and its minions are not answerable to US laws or constitution.

Knowing this, are you still waiting in line for your barefoot outrage?

Are you insane?

Can you provide any data whatsoever to support that assertion? Even one proven case of some disease being caught from a TSA screener's gloves?


Common knowledge that many germs and diseases are spread by contact. I have searched but have not found any articles or reports.

Any data that TSA has intercepted shoe bombs? Even one proven case of TSA stopping a shoe bomber on a flight originating in the United States?

Any data that TSA has intercepted shoe bombs? Even one proven case of TSA stopping a shoe bomber on a flight originating in the United States?

If there was even a remote possibility of Kippies minions finding a shoe bomb, it would have been all over the news for weeks. The silence speaks for itself.

Common knowledge that many germs and diseases are spread by contact. I have searched but have not found any articles or reports.

Any data that TSA has intercepted shoe bombs? Even one proven case of TSA stopping a shoe bomber on a flight originating in the United States?My point entirely - so why are you worried about one unproven and probably infinitessimally negligible risk (if people were catching diseases from screening surely it would be all over the newspapers?), but not another (assuming you subscribe the the "the TSA is a complete waste of money" view)?

My point entirely - so why are you worried about one unproven and probably infinitessimally negligible risk (if people were catching diseases from screening surely it would be all over the newspapers?), but not another (assuming you subscribe the the "the TSA is a complete waste of money" view)?


Read post #19 in this thread for the appreciable risks of the Shoe Carnival. Blood on the floor was enough of a concern to shut down a checkpoint line so the floor could be cleaned. The risk of passengers contracting a disease or adverse medical condition such as athlete's foot is far greater than the benefit of TSA trying to prevent a terrorist attack by forcing all passengers to remove their shoes.

Moreover, think about the signs in restrooms admonishing employees to wash hands after using the facilities. I suppose that germs magically disappear at TSA checkpoints. Imagine this scenario: TSA screener paws all through dirty laundry of passenger immediately before he paws through your bags. Would you want TSA screener to change gloves? The same principle applies to walking on a filthy airport floor.

Again, I submit that the risk of cross-contamination and passengers becoming ill is far higher than is the possibility that TSA will foil a shoe bombing.

Show us some data!

If you can't then your argument has no more merit than that of the idiot Hawley.

Read this - the entire thread - if you're still skeptical:

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=616220&highlight=infectious+disease

As did PatrickHenry, I had called the CDC, but got a much more sympathetic reception. The person I spoke with told me that he agreed that an airport check-point floor is ripe for transmitting infection, especially to certain susceptible individuals. However, he basically said the CDC wasn't going to touch this one with a ten foot pole.

Read post #19 in this thread for the appreciable risks of the Shoe Carnival. Blood on the floor was enough of a concern to shut down a checkpoint line so the floor could be cleaned. The risk of passengers contracting a disease or adverse medical condition such as athlete's foot is far greater than the benefit of TSA trying to prevent a terrorist attack by forcing all passengers to remove their shoes.

Moreover, think about the signs in restrooms admonishing employees to wash hands after using the facilities. I suppose that germs magically disappear at TSA checkpoints. Imagine this scenario: TSA screener paws all through dirty laundry of passenger immediately before he paws through your bags. Would you want TSA screener to change gloves? The same principle applies to walking on a filthy airport floor.

Again, I submit that the risk of cross-contamination and passengers becoming ill is far higher than is the possibility that TSA will foil a shoe bombing.

Since when did TSA have any concern or mission to protect public health - or to do a cost/benefit analysis?

Since when did TSA have any concern or mission to protect public health - or to do a cost/benefit analysis?

TSA's failure to consider other factors, such as public health and consequences of the Shoe Carnival, is one of its major problems. Failing to do a cost/benefit analysis is risk avoidance rather than risk management. Cold but true.

Again your all worried about 10-15 seconds of walking on the floor than other parts of travelling. If food can stay on the floor for up to 45 seconds without contracting any germs, I'm sure 15 seconds is harmless for the majority. There are probably times where we have walked bare foot outside or wherever that would be just as, if not more 'germy' than an airport floor.

Moreover, think about the signs in restrooms admonishing employees to wash hands after using the facilities. I suppose that germs magically disappear at TSA checkpoints. Imagine this scenario: TSA screener paws all through dirty laundry of passenger immediately before he paws through your bags. Would you want TSA screener to change gloves? The same principle applies to walking on a filthy airport floor.

There was a thread on here where a TSO was in the men's room taking a leak with gloves on and went right back out to the floor without changing gloves.

He touches his unit, then touches other people's belongings. Diseases or not, it's disgusting. :td:

Super

Again your all worried about 10-15 seconds of walking on the floor than other parts of travelling. If food can stay on the floor for up to 45 seconds without contracting any germs, I'm sure 15 seconds is harmless for the majority. There are probably times where we have walked bare foot outside or wherever that would be just as, if not more 'germy' than an airport floor.

BS it's 15 seconds. Don't know what airport you go thru, but I was shoeless for multiple minutes each at BWI and SLC this week.

My backyard isn't teaming with thousands of people's germs walking thru day in and day out with little cleaning or regard for people.

And of course, some of the diseases found at airport checkpoints were listed in here http://www.airportbusiness.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=7090

If you would eat food dropped on a floor in a public place, go right ahead. However, what germs I expose myself to should be MY choice and not some TSA bureaucrats who can't even prove that there have been any shoe attempts (in fact, the admit they didn't).

http://travelnewsblog.latimes.com/dailytraveler/2006/04/airport_shoe_ch.html

The original article is still there, but it's archived on the LA Times' website. I'm not paying for it, but it's an interesting read. Though you can find snippets in this thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=552567&highlight=shoe+bomb+attacks

Super

Again your all worried about 10-15 seconds of walking on the floor than other parts of travelling. If food can stay on the floor for up to 45 seconds without contracting any germs, I'm sure 15 seconds is harmless for the majority. There are probably times where we have walked bare foot outside or wherever that would be just as, if not more 'germy' than an airport floor.


I do not eat any food that has fallen on the floor or ground, no matter how little time has passed between it hitting the surface and when it is picked up.

One's immune system is geared up for the germs in one's surroundings. Antigens/antibodies. People from all over the world pass through airport checkpoints. They bring exotic microbes with them. The risk of innocent people contracting illnesses increases dramatically when they are exposed to bacteria and viruses foreign to their immune systems. As stated before, the benefits of the shoe carnival (mandatory shoe/footwear removal for all) do not outweigh the risks of infection from this egregious breach of public hygiene.

Again your all worried about 10-15 seconds of walking on the floor than other parts of travelling. If food can stay on the floor for up to 45 seconds without contracting any germs, I'm sure 15 seconds is harmless for the majority. There are probably times where we have walked bare foot outside or wherever that would be just as, if not more 'germy' than an airport floor.

Food dropped on the floor gets contaminated pretty much straight away:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/dining/09curi.html

Again your all worried about 10-15 seconds of walking on the floor than other parts of travelling. If food can stay on the floor for up to 45 seconds without contracting any germs, I'm sure 15 seconds is harmless for the majority. There are probably times where we have walked bare foot outside or wherever that would be just as, if not more 'germy' than an airport floor.

I don't know where you've heard that food dropped on the floor for less than 45 seconds is safe to eat. There was actually a Mythbusters episode that tested "the five second rule" about food dropped on the floor. And even that was busted! They found that food became contaminated almost immediately.

The point that many of us are trying to make is that the TSA should be held accountable when its actions present a risk to public health, even if that risk is extremely small. If people want to eat off the floor, walk barefoot in an airplane lavatory, or pick their nose while driving, that's their choice. But a government agency should not force everyone to subject themselves to a security procedure that's unsanitary and undignified, especially when it's a total waste of time. An X-ray machine can't detect explosives hidden in shoes. And even if it could, there are many other articles of clothing (and body cavities) in which explosives could be concealed. "A small battery could also be used as a detonator" was one of Kip Hawley's reasons for lifting the ban on cigarette lighters. Why can't that same logic be applied to the Shoe Carnival?

I have always thought it was gross to walk around on the airport floor in my socks - it's also why I never wear flip flops when I fly. The idea of walking around in bare feet is just nasty.

Still...it's important to have some perspective here. I mean, if it were that easy, we'd all be dead by now. And it's not like anyone's feet are ever close to being sterile. It's one thing if you have open cuts on your feet - quite another if not. Your skin, after all, is DESIGNED to keep nasties out of your body.

Even though I know walking around in socks or bare feet is probably fine, if I have any extra time I just refuse to take my shoes off and let them swab me.

Oh, and to the guy who implied that people in Afghanistan are shorter-lived because of hygiene - you're wrong. People in Afghanistan are shorter-lived because they're caught in the crossfire between the US Army and the Taliban.

For a minute I thought I had a line of defense for the TSA in relation to people walking around the airport bathrooms then in stocking feet through the security area; one thing cancelling out the other, if you will. But if you read to the end, you see that there's just not enough 'contact time' for it to work ;) :D

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/070330.html

DD

Even though I know walking around in socks or bare feet is probably fine, if I have any extra time I just refuse to take my shoes off and let them swab me.


Sadly, that is no longer an option. I guess you haven't flown since August 10th.

Sadly, that is no longer an option. I guess you haven't flown since August 10th.
It's an option, but a painful and time consuming ending up with a full pat down and SSSS search of your baggage :rolleyes:

It's an option, but a painful and time consuming ending up with a full pat down and SSSS search of your baggage :rolleyes:

Not always; often just the swab.

Not always; often just the swab.
are you just saying no or saying no due to a medical condition?

It's an option, but a painful and time consuming ending up with a full pat down and SSSS search of your baggage :rolleyes:Not always; often just the swab.sop is if no alarm and shoes are not removed, you and not your bags are subject to secondary. do not let them tell you otherwise. if the screener at the x-ray machine "passed" your bags, then they better explain the probable cause to you in front of a leo before opening and inspecting your bags.

are you just saying no or saying no due to a medical condition?i say "no" because i wear orthotics and have never had my carry-ons inspected; only me (and it's 50/50 for a swab 'n go and full body maSSSSage).

Providing that you are wearing a substantial pair of shoes and not loafers or flip-flops, just tell them you have orthopedic shoes and can't take them off.

I kinda have an issue with that - if you're not wearing orthopedic shoes or orthotics then you shouldn't lie and say that you are.

I do wear orthotics. The last time I kept my shoes on I got the full molester pat down, not the "swab only" I should have gotten.

Me too. SFO and ORD did it wrong - full grope including folding over the top of my pants. I told them both times, but the screeners didn't seem to speak English. Only FLL did it correctly AND they were very polite about it. I went over and thanked the supervisor having his people do their job correctly...but also because he was way hot. :)

I kinda have an issue with that - if you're not wearing orthopedic shoes or orthotics then you shouldn't lie and say that you are.

I have absolutely no problem with being dishonest with an organization that is not honest with me. I also have no problem with being dishonest with an organization that "requires" shoe removal from babes in arms and elderly people.

It's an option, but a painful and time consuming ending up with a full pat down and SSSS search of your baggage :rolleyes:

So it's really no different than the retalation pre 8/10 when you dared to question a TSO's authoritah.

Re: flip flops...

A guy (white, mid 20's) in front of us at LAS D checkpoint refused to take off his flip-flops and they gave him a secondary. He was kinda loud and mouthy about it. When we were waiting for the train, I saw him being walked over to some side office by an airport cop. :eek: Musta got an attitude adjustment because we later saw him coming up the escalator while we were eating in the food area.

I fly all the time - haven't refused to take off my shoes in a few months because I've lately developed the nasty tendency of arriving at the airport at the last minute. :)

Sadly, that is no longer an option. I guess you haven't flown since August 10th.

So it's really no different than the retalation pre 8/10 when you dared to question a TSO's authoritah.
Actually it's worse since they changed the policy ... the entire thing is a load of bull.

Actually it's worse since they changed the policy ... the entire thing is a load of bull.

Well, it has been since TSA was formed, but that's another thread. :)

Oh, and to the guy who implied that people in Afghanistan are shorter-lived because of hygiene - you're wrong. People in Afghanistan are shorter-lived because they're caught in the crossfire between the US Army and the Taliban.

I am the guy who implied that lack of personal hygiene is a reason why life expectancy is less in Afghanistan than it is in the United States. I humbly submit that one should review life expectancy statistics for Afghanistan prior to September 2001. I am extremely confident that such a review would prove that ousting the Taliban was not the only reason that average life expectancy in Afghanistan is less than it is in the United States. Nice try ...:rolleyes:

Edit: I did a quick Google search and found this link http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/english/modules/social/life/map1.html that proves my point.

tell the screener that you are diabetic and have foot ulcers and taking your shoes off poses a health risk to you.

have your doctor give you a letter on his/her letterhead explaing the above and show it to the screeners
carry a copy of this with you (http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/assets/pdf/special_needs_memo.pdf). page 3 is where it's at and this may/may not get you by without the above but it has never failed me with my wearing orthotics (see below)




Yesterday at ORD (one-way ORD-MCI flight), I gave the a copy of the TSA memo to the TSO, who said "This is dated September 2006. Our SOPs have changed since then." Of course she didn't show me anything in writing.

She then got another supervisor, and to convince him I actually did have a medical problem, had to pull off my socks and shoes (while not letting my feet touch the ground) and show him the wart on the bottom of my foot. So much for medical privacy.

Oh, and I got the full pat-down, including the TSO saying that my wallet (!) had alarmed and needed to run that through the X-ray machine. Almost missed my flight. Man oh man, am I glad I decided to drive home instead of flying (it was a 10 hour drive).

Yesterday at ORD (one-way ORD-MCI flight), I gave the a copy of the TSA memo to the TSO, who said "This is dated September 2006. Our SOPs have changed since then." Of course she didn't show me anything in writing.

She then got another supervisor, and to convince him I actually did have a medical problem, had to pull off my socks and shoes (while not letting my feet touch the ground) and show him the wart on the bottom of my foot. So much for medical privacy.

Oh, and I got the full pat-down, including the TSO saying that my wallet (!) had alarmed and needed to run that through the X-ray machine. Almost missed my flight. Man oh man, am I glad I decided to drive home instead of flying (it was a 10 hour drive).they were wrong-sop has not changed and you are still not required to remove your shoes if you have a medical condition.
the tsa's own website regaring mobility disabilties (http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1371.shtm) where if you look at the 9th bullet point:

Let the Security Officer know if your shoes cannot be removed because of your disability so that alternative security procedures can be applied to your shoes.

sorry, but to me having a wart on the bottom of you foot falls into this category, dontcha think?

Yesterday at ORD (one-way ORD-MCI flight), I gave the a copy of the TSA memo to the TSO, who said "This is dated September 2006. Our SOPs have changed since then." Of course she didn't show me anything in writing.

She then got another supervisor, and to convince him I actually did have a medical problem, had to pull off my socks and shoes (while not letting my feet touch the ground) and show him the wart on the bottom of my foot. So much for medical privacy.

Oh, and I got the full pat-down, including the TSO saying that my wallet (!) had alarmed and needed to run that through the X-ray machine. Almost missed my flight. Man oh man, am I glad I decided to drive home instead of flying (it was a 10 hour drive).

A violation of your right to medical privacy and by people who are not physicians at that. Further, they have no qualifications to make a determination about the wart on your foot.