Asia - Tipping in south east Asia

Me and my daughter are going to Laos , Vietnam and Cambodia in Aug.
on a private tour arranged by a tour company in Vietnam.
We will be just the 2 of us + a local driver and a guide . The total tour ( flts.
hotels , meals ) has already been paid in advance.

I need some info in regard to tipping to the various drivers and guides in the
3 countries , above. : is tipping common ? and if YES than how much ?
and what about in the restaurants where all our meals have already been paid
in advance ?

Thanks very much for any info .

Michael

As a rule, tipping is not customary anywhere in Southeast Asia. If eating at a restaurant, locals may leave the spare change (coins); if they take a taxi, they'll leave nothing at tall.

If service was genuinely good, you can consider a tip of a dollar or two. But forget US-style 15-20% tips, especially as you are almost certainly paying through the nose for everything and are guaranteed to eat only at the most mediocre restaurants possible...

No, there is generally no tipping. This includes drivers, guides, and restaurants - whether or not the meals have been paid for in advance, hotel housekeeping. With these "all-inclusive" meal deals, you might still have to pay extra for certain drinks etc.

Typically, Vietnamese might themselves leave small change. Eg if a bill came to VND58,000, they might well leave the VND2,000 (about US$0.13) when paying VND60,000. But the change would always be brought back and they wouldn't care or see it as an insult if you did take the VND2,000. Do use local currency where possible rather than flinging USD around as some visitors do.

There are some other exceptional situations (eg massages/other personal services, during the Lunar New Year, Labour Day) where it might be appropriate to offer something extra. But its unlikely they apply here.

Some Taiwanese friends recently took one of these "all-in" tours - didn't tip and everyone was happy.

One common "scam" is for the tour guide to say he earns good money so he really he doesn't need to be tipped, but that the driver has a hard life and earns very little. "So maybe you'd like to tip him." I'm sure they try this more with western tourists than locals! No need to cave in. If they persist then say you'll complain to the tour organizer. Remember also that kick backs are not uncommon - the guide might well get something back from restaurants he takes you to if they are not fixed by the tour operator.

If you "really feel the need to tip", my suggestion would be to buy a gift. A bottle of booze or whatever. Or invite the guide/driver to eat with you (if they don't already).

Though tipping is not normal, tourists are at the cutting edge of its introduction. Either because they are from tipping cultures themselves, or they feel pity for people in "poor countries" (or both). Bear in mind that people that get themselves in front of foreigners are generally well paid compared with other locals.

Families tend to be extended and swap money between themselves. Someone who apparently has a low income might still have a mobile phone, motorbike etc. SE Asians have found their own way of redistributing wealth and evening out some of the financial injustices of the world.

A more difficult issue is beggars on the streets and street kids in general. Some are OK, some will give money they get to to drug addicted fathers/brothers, some are controlled by mafia type gangs. I think the answer is if you want a shoe shine, a fresh coconut etc., then don't by shy to haggle to what you think its worth or a guide book tells you should pay - but don't be paranoid about over paying by every last $0.01.

In Vietnam, some poorer people sell lottery tickets and this is a good way to help them out. They visit outdoor eateries etc. Normally they never trouble foreigners as they assume they are not interested. For fun you could always buy a few. The same people carry lists of recent winning numbers - they'll help you check your winnings though can rarely speak English. Or you could give your tickets away. A British friend of mine won an astonishing US$8000. The tickets are really cheap (less than US$0.50 - I don't know I never play it!)

Have a great trip!

Read through this hilarious and informative thread in the China forum for more than you ever wanted to know about tipping in S.E. Asia.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599462&highlight=tipping

By the way, in the end, summary is almost no one tips, but, no one can stop you if you are hot to do so. IMHO, however, the locals will think you are a fool.

Thank you very much , JPATOKAL , JIMBO99 , and BIGGESTBOPPER , for
your valuable info.

michael

Funny story (to me at least...I hope it doesn't offend anybody).

A few years back, I was up in the hills of Doi Inthanon, the highest mountain in Thailand. The area is quite remote.
I found a roadside restaurant w/ outdoor seating consisting of long tables. Appeared to be run by a mother and her about 8 year-old son. I was the lone customer at the time.

I ate a modest rice-based meal. Upon departing I left a few baht as a tip.
As I was making my way back to my truck the little boy came running after me yelling something I couldn't understand (I don't speak Thai). I stopped.
He extended his hand and with a big smile returned to me the money I had "forgotten" on the table!

Along the same lines, I spent a few days in a really off the beaten path hotel west of Danang Vietnam. Like a 100k Dong/night type place. When I went out for the day I left a small tip for the maid in the middle of the messed up bed. Not much, maybe 10k Dong (~65 cents). When I returned that night I found my room neatly cleaned and my tip neatly arranged in the middle of my now made up bed. Later I mentioned that in passing to some local Vietnamese friends. They concluded the maid probably figured I didn't trust her and was "testing" her honesty by leaving money laying around as bait to see if she would steal it from me.

I've encountered maids who refuse to take small tips in off the beaten path areas of Laos as well.

They concluded the maid probably figured I didn't trust her and was "testing" her honesty by leaving money laying around as bait to see if she would steal it from me.

I doubt whether she thought so much. I don't think cleaners in VN really think guests are going around testing their dishonesty. She probably just regarded it as your property and left it alone for that reason.

I don't usually leave valuable stuff out. But when I have left stuff out in Vietnam, its never been stolen. Funnily enough I left VND4M (about US$250) on my desk this morning. It was still there tonight - and I regretted even doubting that would be.

thanks for the useful info for a US traveler going to SE asia in about 6 months...i actually feel guilt when not tipping, so i probably won't get over it by then...ha ha easy come, easy go...plus, i paid for college on earning tips...

My bill for lunch today was $28 for 2 people. I left 26,000VND as a tip as the service was good. I don't see a problem with doing that. The staff wages are extremely low at these jobs.

My bill for lunch today was $28 for 2 people. I left 26,000VND as a tip as the service was good. I don't see a problem with doing that. The staff wages are extremely low at these jobs.

Well... I see problems... but they've been done to death in the various tipping threads in travelbuzz....

My observation in VN is that generally Vietnamese people don't tip (beyond leaving small change), they often get good service for meals costing alot less than US$28 for 2. I had a very nice "Hue style" meal for lunch today in district 1 - excellent service - bill came to around VND90,000 for 2 (around US$6). My VN friend who was paying collected up all the change.

Foreigners often do tip, especially if they come from tipping cultures. The worst "offenders" are some "vietkieus" (overseas Vietnamese) - usually young males - who like to flash the money around to prove they've made it or how american they now are. I went through a week with such a guy (though an older businessmen type). He constantly tipped and seemed very proud to be doing so. Had the habit of paying in USD all the time too. Some of my VN friends actually despise such people.

There is much truth in jimbo99's observations on overseas Vietnamese. I know many Vietnamese Americans at home and have traveled with some of them in Vietnam as well. I am always amazed and somewhat baffled by the way they throw money around. Often they will go to Vietnam, spend a month with family in a village somewhere and come back and say they spent USD$20,000 while they were over there. That is without 5* hotels or really even any fixed expenses at all. They are staying with family. Nor is that large long term type gifts to family. They might pay for a refrigerator or a new roof or something but the majority of the money is blown on parties, eating out and other things of little long term practical value. I do not think I could manage to spend USD$20,000 in one month in Vietnam even if I tried and I most certainly would be staying in 5* resorts on that kind of budget.

It's funny to read this quote below... one of my good friends once went to visit his extended family in VN and said he went through so much money because everyone was fleecing him for cash for this and that and making him pay for everything! I learned more about this one night over drinks with some other SE Asian folks I know, and it was surprising how common this viewpoint was among the "American" SE Asians at the table. I think there are two sides to the story...

On tipping, I see so many people talk about how there is no tipping "in SE Asia." It's a big place folks, you're talking about a bunch of countries, not just VN. As one of the offenders you seek to discourage, I can tell you tons of stories about people who didn't come running after me to return my tips, but rather who look forward to my return to their hotel or restaurant. I can also tell you that the worst service I've encountered is in Singapore, where I currently live, because the people waiting on you know they'll get their 10%. We've started crossing it out, I'm not kidding you the service is so bad and you're spending US$100 a head with drinks factored in for someone to ignore you, disappear after they drop your food at the table or act confused when you point out they brought you the wrong dish. I happen to be a former restaurant/bar worker and always thought the tipping system added a nice layer of accountability. But on top of that, I have no problem rewarding people beyond what their employer chooses to pay them if they provide particularly good service.

There is much truth in jimbo99's observations on overseas Vietnamese. I know many Vietnamese Americans at home and have traveled with some of them in Vietnam as well. I am always amazed and somewhat baffled by the way they throw money around. Often they will go to Vietnam, spend a month with family in a village somewhere and come back and say they spent USD$20,000 while they were over there. That is without 5* hotels or really even any fixed expenses at all. They are staying with family. Nor is that large long term type gifts to family. They might pay for a refrigerator or a new roof or something but the majority of the money is blown on parties, eating out and other things of little long term practical value. I do not think I could manage to spend USD$20,000 in one month in Vietnam even if I tried and I most certainly would be staying in 5* resorts on that kind of budget.

As mentioned above, Asia is a big place and what might offend someone in one place will be gratefully accepted in another.

In Indonesia, for example, most of the locals that I know tip in some situations. Not necessarily the same amount as I would at home, or in all the places I might.

Where you do need to be careful is when you are dealing with someone who considers themselves above receiving a tip, as that is something that you would only give to someone who is well subordinate to you. There is the potential to offend in that case.

In the final equation, if I give a taxi driver in Jakarta an extra dollar (a meaningless amount to me), it will have a real effect for him (he probably takes home $8 a day).

Ask a local who is relatively affluent what they do and follow suit.

one of my good friends once went to visit his extended family in VN and said he went through so much money because everyone was fleecing him for cash for this and that and making him pay for everything!

Yep... some VN-based members of VN families play that card very well. I knew a couple who left VN in 1979 as young teenagers and ended up in the UK, married and had a son. They returned in 2001. I met them at SGN. It amused the locals as I had to help them cross the road etc.

They were so keen to see their family again. They were also to discuss a business venture. I did warn them what this could mean.... They insisted on staying with their family despite my suggestion they check-in to my usual mini-hotel.

Two days later I got a call to "come and rescue them". Literally I went there in a taxi, opened the door, they jumped in, and we drove off. They didn't even have enough cash left for the taxi. Their ATM card had "gone missing". The "venture" turned to be nothing more than a scam, and in the meantime they'd footed the bill for entertainment, aunt's medicine, overdue rent etc.

They told me from the moment they arrived they were subjected to psychological pressure, playing on family links, how the family suffered in the 1980s whilst they had a great life in the UK etc

From the moment I (a transient super hero) arrived in the taxi, they felt that VN was no longer their country and they regarded themselves as more British than Vietnamese.

Even when there is no ill motive, some VN people think that life is easy overseas. They hear of the salaries people can get but don't know of the costs. Even if you tell them VAT is 17.5% or tax rises to 40% (as it does in the UK) they just assume that nobody actually pays it. For UK travellers, the best way is to tell them that petrol costs around VND30,000 a litre, or cigarettes VND150,000 a pack. (Yes.. for 20 not 200!). Then it begins to register.

Getting back OT, since my previous post, I had dinner with one of the girls that used to work in one of the expat bar/restaurants in Saigon. (Can't say which one, one of the rivals to Cafe Latin...) So I discussed all this with her. Currently the pay is VND1.3M/month, about US$80. Most people don't tip, but the ones that do have the effect of doubling the salary. She worked for the same place for around 5 years. (Now she works for an export company.) At first the staff like tipping because of the extra cash. She grew to hate it as she just sees it as a way of her boss getting rich. She was quite happy that I never tipped and called customers that did so "stupid, but up to them". She worried that if they got too much they'd never leave bar work.

For comparison, the Pho (noodle) place around the corner charges less than US$2 for a bowl of lovely chicken/beef noodles. Nobody ever tips there.

Anyway, I paid for the dinner and she made sure I took the change! Ha ha ha.

There is an interesting article on service in Singapore in the most recent "Time Out" magazine here in Singapore. It was explaining how the ranking for Singapore in terms of service had plumetted over the last decade, and suggested there were kids waiting tables who had for their entire lives been waited on by a maid, so you can't really expect much. That puts things in perspective, I do feel like people waiting on me are so oblivious that it's as if they had never even put their own clothes on by themselves before- turns out that is closer to the truth than I would have guessed. Another funny quote was from a Singaporean who came back from the US and was shocked "that the white people there serve food and clear plates!" Apparently the parents here dont really want their kids going into service jobs here because they are viewed as soooo beneath the good folks. But from what I can see, Singapore really needs these jobs to maintain full employment and the govt is pushing more and more as tourist destination (why you would come here on vacation I do not know...) so the service industry here needs a wake up call.

The article also had some interesting points about tipping in Singapore and explained that here the 10% service charge doesnt go to the employees in the form of wages. Most employers use it to pay for uniforms, training, etc, but bottom line is staff doesnt get it in a very useful form (ie cash). Interestly, the article noted that in "local" (as opposed to "expat") bars here, the locals tip more than the foreigners!!! This was so interesting, I guess tipping is catching on more among the affluent locals than among the expats. I suspect this may because the euros who see a service charge assume that goes to the server in cash... Anyway, I went to dinner afterwards in an upscale (but still predominantly local) place, got mediocre service (which I have now come to accept as good or standard here) and I left a 15% tip and really got a nice thank you as I left, but nothing suggesting it was a huge amount.

The article also had some interesting points about tipping in Singapore and explained that here the 10% service charge doesnt go to the employees in the form of wages.

People seem to have different expectations about this. I've never regarded a service charge as being the same as tip, nor have I ever expected it to go to the staff. It seems Americans are more inclined to think that this is the case. I suppose a service charge is a way of making non-tippers pay up whilst not costing tippers anymore as the service charge replaces the tip they'd otherwise leave. In the UK, if it says 10% service, then you have to pay it - and you are no more right to dispute it than you do the rest of the bill - which of course you can do if you're not happy. Actually usually they say its "discretionary" - this is because they can then escape paying VAT - and of course then you can refuse to pay it.

Had an annoying meal experience in Saigon last week. Was with a group of friends in a restaurant which was not really a place for tourists. It was a little old fashioned in that they had a separate air-conditioned room for which they charge 10% extra. This was stated on the menu (in English). When the bill came, an American in our group complained about being charged extra for aircon - no restaurant in the US would do this. They pointed it out on the bill, but she still wasn't happy. Anyway we paid up and the waiter brought the change back. Then she wanted to leave a tip - suggesting "only" 10% - as she thought they were a bit dishonest and "we've already given them 10% extra" !!

Currently the pay is VND1.3M/month, about US$80. ....

For comparison, the Pho (noodle) place around the corner charges less than US$2 for a bowl of lovely chicken/beef noodles. Nobody ever tips there.

.

wow... a month's pay only buys 40 bowls of noodles!? That's not good!

People seem to have different expectations about this. I've never regarded a service charge as being the same as tip, nor have I ever expected it to go to the staff. It seems Americans are more inclined to think that this is the case. I suppose a service charge is a way of making non-tippers pay up whilst not costing tippers anymore as the service charge replaces the tip they'd otherwise leave.

That is true: in the U.S. a service charge replaces a tip. But since it is often a bit lower than what some people would leave, some of us will add additional $$ if the service is good. Many restaurants only have service charges for large parties (say 8 or more people), which will be clearly stated on the menu. And yes, it's to protect the server from getting stiffed on a really big bill.

As an American who travels overseas extensively I can say I much prefer the tipping system. I laugh off horrid service in many places (especially W. Europe and especially Amsterdam) that no Yank would tolerate at home.

wow... a month's pay only buys 40 bowls of noodles!? That's not good!

Actually I think $2 for a bowl of Pho is a bit steep for Saigon.

That is true: in the U.S. a service charge replaces a tip. But since it is often a bit lower than what some people would leave, some of us will add additional $$ if the service is good. Many restaurants only have service charges for large parties (say 8 or more people), which will be clearly stated on the menu. And yes, it's to protect the server from getting stiffed on a really big bill.

As an American who travels overseas extensively I can say I much prefer the tipping system. I laugh off horrid service in many places (especially W. Europe and especially Amsterdam) that no Yank would tolerate at home.

The first time I ever encountered a service charge was in France many years ago. I understand the service charge was put in there during the Depression to protect the workers and that it does go directly to the workers. I do note that generally, service in France is excellent, especially in the better restaurants.

As for a service charge in the US, I started noticing it a few years ago in places with pretensions (justified or not) and I suspect it is both an effort to get fair treatment for the waiters from folks who think 5% is just fine and to appear European/French--perhaps more the latter than the former.