Starwood Preferred Guest - Royal treatment of pilots

I just checked in at the Four Points Boston Airport. It seems that pilots must consider themselves more important than mere mortals - and Four Points agrees.

First, when you call for shuttle service, they make it very clear that you have to have your luggage and be ready to go to the curb since if you're not there, they won't wait. Yet after I got on the shuttle, the driver got a call from the office telling him to wait at the next terminal for a couple of pilots. They all the paying customers on the bus had to cool our heels waiting for the pilots to get off their plane and get there.

Then, when we got to the checkin desk, the pilots cut in front of the line (even pushing the SPG sign out of the way) again making everyone else wait.

Sorry, Four Points, but I'm planning a sales meeting for next year and you just got crossed off the list.

Then, when we got to the checkin desk, the pilots cut in front of the line (even pushing the SPG sign out of the way) again making everyone else wait.

Sorry, Four Points, but I'm planning a sales meeting for next year and you just got crossed off the list.

Did you think that they might be dangerously close to the mandatory window for rest in order to make an on time departure next day? They could have been outside it for all you know...

I can't tell you how many "crew rest" delays I have experienced over the years...

Certainly, the pilots were rude for cutting to the front, but did you say anything about their behavior? If you and the other folks let it go, you can't complain. Be a man and show a little backbone next time by dealing with those that are causing you anguish.

I would be much more interested in the possible confrontation with the "holier than thou" pilots than the part about the shuttle waiting...

Certainly, the pilots were rude for cutting to the front, but did you say anything about their behavior? If you and the other folks let it go, you can't complain. Be a man and show a little backbone next time by dealing with those that are causing you anguish.

Sorry, I don't see any reason to be confrontational - since it would only have slowed down my checkin even further.

I'll just take my business somewhere where paying guests are appreciated.

I'll just take my business somewhere where paying guests are appreciated.

Ah, but that's just the point. Four Points obviously realise that the revenues generated by corporate contracts far outweigh the business that you offer them and treat them accordingly. What on earth are you thinking? The airlines get the rooms for free? :rolleyes:

Airlines block a certain number of rooms 365 days a year and hotels know that this is a good business. Many hotels put space at the crew's disposal as a "crew lounge" and offer the crews other benefits, beacuse they know that unhappy crews will put pressure on the airline to change hotels.

Four Points were indeed giving their good customers good service and you are just bent out of shape because you had to wait.... :td:

Ah, but that's just the point. Four Points obviously realise that the revenues generated by corporate contracts far outweigh the business that you offer them and treat them accordingly. What on earth are you thinking? The airlines get the rooms for free? :rolleyes:

Airlines block a certain number of rooms 365 days a year and hotels know that this is a good business. Many hotels put space at the crew's disposal as a "crew lounge" and offer the crews other benefits, beacuse they know that unhappy crews will put pressure on the airline to change hotels.

Four Points were indeed giving their good customers good service and you are just bent out of shape because you had to wait.... :td:

Sorry, but the pilot doesn't choose his hotel room. I do.

Furthermore, I've never stayed at any other hotel where the pilots (or anyone, for that matter) got such blatant preference.

Should someone who works for General Motors get to cut in front of the line just because their company books lots of rooms? Why is it OK if United employees do it, but not GM employees?

Sorry, but the pilot doesn't choose his hotel room. I do.

Furthermore, I've never stayed at any other hotel where the pilots (or anyone, for that matter) got such blatant preference.

Should someone who works for General Motors get to cut in front of the line just because their company books lots of rooms? Why is it OK if United employees do it, but not GM employees?

Wow. . .I would hate to have to see how you would act if something really disastrous happened. Sorry, but most pilots don't "cut in front" the hotel has a pre-made list with room assignments to give to the pilots and flight attendants. They do this so that the crew can go right to the room and they can reduce the wait for most customers.

Also, I don't know what company you work for but I do know that the sales guys in my company wouldn't be all that impressed with a meeting at a 4 Points (unless it was the Sydney Harbour 4 Points ;)).

Finally you're comparing apples-->oranges re: UA employees/GM. How long did you have to wait (out of curiosity)? Was it 1/2 hour, 1 hour, 10 minutes, 5? :confused:

Wow. . .I would hate to have to see how you would act if something really disastrous happened. Sorry, but most pilots don't "cut in front" the hotel has a pre-made list with room assignments to give to the pilots and flight attendants. They do this so that the crew can go right to the room and they can reduce the wait for most customers.

Also, I don't know what company you work for but I do know that the sales guys in my company wouldn't be all that impressed with a meeting at a 4 Points (unless it was the Sydney Harbour 4 Points ;)).

Finally you're comparing apples-->oranges re: UA employees/GM. How long did you have to wait (out of curiosity)? Was it 1/2 hour, 1 hour, 10 minutes, 5? :confused:

Sorry, but you weren't there. The pilots did cut in front. Since you weren't there, how can you say that they didn't?

As for the amount of the delay, it wasn't all that long, but I don't like being treated as a second class citizen. As I said, they're no longer on my list. Granted, they probably wouldn't have made it, anyway, but with two bad FP experiences in the last 3 months, I think I may skip Four Points, entirely.

Should someone who works for General Motors get to cut in front of the line just because their company books lots of rooms? Why is it OK if United employees do it, but not GM employees?Actually, I have seen some hotels set aside a specific portion of their front desk for people from a large corporate customer, even to the point of displaying an engraved sign stating "For Employees of XYZ Corporation" or something similar.

As for the pilots, I always thought that most hotels work with airline crew scheduling departments to obtain the crew names in advance so that they could pre-assign the rooms. When arriving, the crew members then only need to sign a log (for verification/billing purposes), and are given pre-filled-out key packets allowing them to bypass the main check-in desk.

R u SPG Plat by chance and they said there are no more suites left? ;)

aircrew do not have choice of suites. They do however get preferred room such as preferred views or corner rooms which may be larger. Hence the room pool would be limited further for spg gold members and possibly spg platinum if the hotel decides to only allocate certainnumber of junior suites for plat members.

I do feel for the op. Maybe a letter to spg expressing your disappointment that their employees would display such disdain to you and entertain rogue customers such as pilots.

I know of one hilton property that would go all out for SQ cabin crew but show no regard to its top tier members.

Can the OP tell me what happened at the Four Points Boston Airport on this particular stay outside of the check in process?

Actually, most airline agreements with hotels STIPULATE that the pilots and FA's will NOT have to stand in line for the rooms. As a previous poster stated, many airlines are scheduling crew rest at the minimum allowable time and I, for one, would like the pilots to get as much rest as possible.

That being said, the manager or an additional agent usually comes out and helps the airline crews at an unoccupied area of the counter (not forcing the pilots/FA's to "cut" in line). It sounds like the hotel was disorganized or short-staffed that night.

It's probably worth emailing the GM to let him/her know what their front desk is doing.

Sorry, but the pilot doesn't choose his hotel room. I do.

How do you get to choose the pilot's room? :p

Wow. . .I would hate to have to see how you would act if something really disastrous happened. Sorry, but most pilots don't "cut in front" the hotel has a pre-made list with room assignments to give to the pilots and flight attendants. They do this so that the crew can go right to the room and they can reduce the wait for most customers.


Another lame apologia for rudeness . . . :td:

Unless you think that the OP is lying, he clearly stated that the pilot did "cut in front" of the line. It does not "reduce the wait for most customers" to allow other customer to cut their way to the front of the line. It makes their wait longer. Indeed, my room assignment is usually made in advance and my room key is all ready so by your logic, I should be able to cut in front of the line too.

Hotels give a huge discount to the airlines too for the block of rooms. At the same time they also bend over backwards to keep them happy. Airlines pilot know this and they exercise their power every time they can.

Unfortunately, the hotel industry does not get reciprocal privileges with the airlines.

I remember once a pilot at the airport getting upset about waiting for 15 minutes for the ride to the hotel. One of the pax politely mentioned to him that we do this everytime we travel on an airplane except much longer.

Can the OP tell me what happened at the Four Points Boston Airport on this particular stay outside of the check in process?

Room was OK, but nothing great. Room service was good and well handled. A/C unit in the room was set way too low (and I like my rooms cool!) to the point where it was quite cold. The A/C unit was very noisy all night long. Wakeup call was handled properly.

(added): The airport shuttle is scheduled on the quarter hour. Everyone was on the van this morning and the driver got in an started the van on time. One of the pilots asked him to wait because another of the pilots was running late. So we waited on the return to the airport, as well.

Overall, not a very impressive stay. Combined with my experience with the Pittsburgh Four Points, I don't think I'll be staying in them very much.

Actually, most airline agreements with hotels STIPULATE that the pilots and FA's will NOT have to stand in line for the rooms. As a previous poster stated, many airlines are scheduling crew rest at the minimum allowable time and I, for one, would like the pilots to get as much rest as possible.

I don't think this was an issue. They had flown DEN-BOS which is only about 4 hours. They arrived before 7 pm and were talking about where they were going to go out to dinner. AFAICT, there were no unusual flight delays on this flight.

I just get irritated at this behavior by airline crews and companies who support it. I remember one flight when I was waiting in line to clear customs. Although I had scheduled a 3 hour connection, my incoming was late, so it was going to be close. A flock of FAs and pilots just cut to the front of the customs line so that they could go to their hotel - forcing paying pax to wait. No apology, not even an ackowledgement that anyone else was in line. I ended up barely making my connecting flight, but only by running full speed through the airport.

I just resent people who have this feeling of entitlement. And Four Points clearly went out of their way to feed it.

This is a typical deal that airlines negotiate with the hotels. The crew isn't supposed to have to wait in line because their rooms are already assigned, etc. etc.

I've waited in line a few times while the crew was given priority - but that's just a matter of understanding that is what their contract provides.

It's not worth getting bent out of shape about - the hotel is just doing what they are required to.

Also, I don't know what company you work for but I do know that the sales guys in my company wouldn't be all that impressed with a meeting at a 4 Points (unless it was the Sydney Harbour 4 Points ;)).

silly comment. :rolleyes:

unlike others, i am inclined to believe the OP. why would he make up the story? i bet the bus was told to wait for the pilots. and, knowing a number of flight attendants, i can believe that pilots would cut in front of everyone else.

regardless of pre-assignment of rooms, the pilots should have waited considering that everyone else waited for them to catch the bus.

regarding crew rest, does it really depend on when the pilots check into the hotel or does it depend on when the plane has its parking break on and is at the gate?

having said all of that, i am not sure that i would have taken the time to post the experience on flyertalk. but, if you think it is a regular service problem at the hotel, then i would have posted the story AND put the property name in the title. the title is a bit insufficient as i believe that most starwood properties do not give "royal" (i.e., preferential) treatment to pilots....just this property (perhaps).

4PTs LAX is notorious for bending over backwards for airline crew (I see the FA's in those lines too) where they send over a couple of people to check them in while there is a long line with one clerk to check in a group of waiting riff raff (what else does the 4Pts think of us.. the way we are treated) customers

I was there two nights ago, for the first time in a year and nothing has changed, the same crap different day.. so I won't be back there for a while, that I can promise..

its unbelievable how bad it gets at this property with check in.. and when its crew you have to compete with even if they come in after you.. forget it.. no service is the only service you will get.

I have seen at several airport Sheratons and Hiltons signs at the check-in desk (adjacent usually to HHonors or SPG check-in) that say Airline Crew. Perhaps the pilots were looking for that sign when they turned the SPG sign?

I would have had no problem saying, "excuse me but I'm waiting" to the pilots. However, it sounds like the front desk should have had a second person help the other guests if in fact they are contractually required to help airline crews on the spot.

Have you pmed the Starwood lurker to find out the deal instead of just speculating?

As for the idea of crew members desiring "upgraded" rooms, I could see if it was going to be a long layover, but most of the time, on short "turnaround" stays (based on my experience staying in crew hotels during my non-rev days), they just want to get to their rooms so that they can go to sleep as soon as possible.

I have seen at several airport Sheratons and Hiltons signs at the check-in desk (adjacent usually to HHonors or SPG check-in) that say Airline Crew. Perhaps the pilots were looking for that sign when they turned the SPG sign?

I would have had no problem saying, "excuse me but I'm waiting" to the pilots. However, it sounds like the front desk should have had a second person help the other guests if in fact they are contractually required to help airline crews on the spot.

Have you pmed the Starwood lurker to find out the deal instead of just speculating?

Sorry, but I'm not speculating anything. There was an SPG sign and the pilots pushed it out of the way (not just turned it around) and cut in front of the line. The FP clerk went over to help them, ignoring the long line of other guests. Just what is there to speculate about?

btw. why do you think that you have priority in clearing customs?

there are always CREW customs officers, havent seen any airport without special CREW lines.

anyway, even i have status with airlines and the higest status in the most hotel programs, i dont mind if a pilot gets his checkin done before me.

btw. why were you standing in a line? no platinum line?

and a 4points is the cheapest option in the spg group, i wouldnt expect too much anyway ...

and if i had the problem, i would adress the issue immidiately to the front desk and would ask the pilot if he is a SPG PLUTONIUM as he fasttracked himself into the line...

dp

btw. why do you think that you have priority in clearing customs?

there are always CREW customs officers, havent seen any airport without special CREW lines.

anyway, even i have status with airlines and the higest status in the most hotel programs, i dont mind if a pilot gets his checkin done before me.

btw. why were you standing in a line? no platinum line?

and a 4points is the cheapest option in the spg group, i wouldnt expect too much anyway ...

and if i had the problem, i would adress the issue immidiately to the front desk and would ask the pilot if he is a SPG PLUTONIUM as he fasttracked himself into the line...

dp

1. I don't think I have priority in clearing customs. I just don't think that air crews should be able to cut in front of me.

2. There was no crew customs line in this one (It was PHL quite a few years ago, IIRC). Or, if there was, why did the crew cut in front of me in the regular customs line?

3. I'm glad you don't mind if someone cuts in front of YOU. That doesn't give them the right to cut in front of ME.

4. I was in the SPG line (there was only one SPG line) when the pilots cut in front of me.

5. What difference does it make how expensive the room was (btw, I don't consider $140 to be 'cheap', anyway)? Is it OK to be rude in a cheap hotel, but not an expensive one?

6. I don't like being confrontational. If I had confronted him, it wouldn't have accomplished anything but slowing things down further and possibly causing a fight. Since it wouldn't gain anything, why create a confrontation?

Any other questions?

the problem I have is that no one comes out to help the regular riff raff line.

you have those lard arses in the back just sitting there

the 4Pt LAX example, had the manager come out, say something to the clerk working the crew; looked at the line, walked out back and never came out.

I brought this up and the clerks answer was, well she's very busy.. why of course.. why didn't I think of that

Couple of thoughts-

The general procedure for crews checking into hotels for the night is the front desk has a sign-in sheet and our keys ready to go. This takes a few minutes, tops.

Airlines contract a certain # of rooms per night, and the airlines pay for those rooms whether they are used or not. The airlines are very good customers for the hotels because the hotel can count on guaranteed revenue.

Certain stipulations are written into the airline/hotel contract. These include type of room/wait times for van/how long we have to wait for a room, etc.
In our contract, if a room is not provided for us in a certain amount of time, the hotel has to "walk" us to another hotel that meets our criteria and pay for that room as well.

If the hotel will not wait for you but will wait for crews, your issue is w/ the hotel, NOT THE CREWS!

Um, you know absolutely for sure that the pilots only worked the one 4 hour flight? You cannot say for sure how long their day was, so I don't buy that arguement.

Also, many rest requirements for pilots are determined by the amount "behind the door" meaning their hotel room door. The longer they have to wait to get "behind the door" can determine how late their flight will leave the next morning.

The "scene" you describe at the front desk (pilots "cutting" in line) has been the SOP for the 10+ yrs I have been flying and the procedure has been agreed to by both parties-hotels and airlines.

My point is that your beef is with the hotel-so don't direct your anger at the crews.

My experience is different than the OP. I see the flight crew's get priority at many hotels where I have stayed, not just FP. That includes some Fairmont (so it is not limited to lower-level).

Regarding your sales meeting, the solution is easy. Have one of your staff do pre-checkin and then have a private table in the lobby so that, as your employees arrive, they meet up with one of your AA's who gives them the keys.

Couple of thoughts-

The general procedure for crews checking into hotels for the night is the front desk has a sign-in sheet and our keys ready to go. This takes a few minutes, tops.

Airlines contract a certain # of rooms per night, and the airlines pay for those rooms whether they are used or not. The airlines are very good customers for the hotels because the hotel can count on guaranteed revenue.

Certain stipulations are written into the airline/hotel contract. These include type of room/wait times for van/how long we have to wait for a room, etc.
In our contract, if a room is not provided for us in a certain amount of time, the hotel has to "walk" us to another hotel that meets our criteria and pay for that room as well.

If the hotel will not wait for you but will wait for crews, your issue is w/ the hotel, NOT THE CREWS!

Um, you know absolutely for sure that the pilots only worked the one 4 hour flight? You cannot say for sure how long their day was, so I don't buy that arguement.

Also, many rest requirements for pilots are determined by the amount "behind the door" meaning their hotel room door. The longer they have to wait to get "behind the door" can determine how late their flight will leave the next morning.

The "scene" you describe at the front desk (pilots "cutting" in line) has been the SOP for the 10+ yrs I have been flying and the procedure has been agreed to by both parties-hotels and airlines.

My point is that your beef is with the hotel-so don't direct your anger at the crews.

I was wondering too - did the pilots specifically (while cutting in line) tell OP they had flown DEN-BOS as their only flight of the day? Did he catch part of a conversation and make an assumption? I have a feeling OP will stick to his story :)

Again, the moving the SPG sign out of the way is presented in a way to make it seem that the pilots are showing disrespect to the other customers in line.

Why would they push it out of the way? Accident? Who knows? It seems unlikely that they did it to thumb their noses at the others on line.

Anyway, OP has a history of being anti-union, anti-employee and pro-management on the AA board so I will take his assessments with a grain of salt.

I agree it sounds like the hotel should have sent a second person out to help with the SPG line. I have never had flight crews wait in line with me - they always seem to have a separate set-up.

I was wondering too - did the pilots specifically (while cutting in line) tell OP they had flown DEN-BOS as their only flight of the day? Did he catch part of a conversation and make an assumption? I have a feeling OP will stick to his story :)

Again, the moving the SPG sign out of the way is presented in a way to make it seem that the pilots are showing disrespect to the other customers in line.

Why would they push it out of the way? Accident? Who knows? It seems unlikely that they did it to thumb their noses at the others on line.

Anyway, OP has a history of being anti-union, anti-employee and pro-management on the AA board so I will take his assessments with a grain of salt.

I agree it sounds like the hotel should have sent a second person out to help with the SPG line. I have never had flight crews wait in line with me - they always seem to have a separate set-up.

I see. So because I tend to take a pro-management position on some occasions, you're accusing me of lying? What kind of logic is that?

As for the rest, I was there and you weren't. The pilots pushed the sign out of the way because it was blocking them from cutting in front of the line. They pushed it out of the way and stepped in front of people. IMHO, that's not justifiable, no matter WHO you are.

And I don't care if they flew in from Sydney. It's still rude - and the hotel shouldn't support it.

our sales meeting, the solution is easy. Have one of your staff do pre-checkin and then have a private table in the lobby so that, as your employees arrive, they meet up with one of your AA's who gives them the keys.

I have an easier solution. We're going somewhere that the guests are appreciated and treated with respect.

I see. So because I tend to take a pro-management position on some occasions, you're accusing me of lying? What kind of logic is that?

As for the rest, I was there and you weren't. The pilots pushed the sign out of the way because it was blocking them from cutting in front of the line. They pushed it out of the way and stepped in front of people. IMHO, that's not justifiable, no matter WHO you are.

And I don't care if they flew in from Sydney. It's still rude - and the hotel shouldn't support it.

I didn't accuse you of lying - I just think maybe you saw it from your perspective.

As others have explained to you, flight crews generally have arrangements negotiated for them by their airlines that they don't have to wait on line. In some cases there are signs that direct them to a special area - in others they just have to approach the front desk.

What were they supposed to do? Wait when they are not supposed to?

Again, it sounds like the hotel could have done a better job either bringing someone to help on the front desk or having the person who left your line to serve the flight crew provide you and the others with an explanation.

You've now learned that the pilots were not cutting in line - just following the typical procedure. Tell us again what you wanted the pilots to do?

You've now learned that the pilots were not cutting in line - just following the typical procedure. Tell us again what you wanted the pilots to do?

I've learned no such thing.

The pilots cut in front of a long line of paying guests.

The fact that you may think that they're entitled to do so does not change the fact that the cut in line.

Furthermore, even if they WERE entitled to do so, what part of the FAA rest rules precludes them from apologizing to all the people standing in line? What part of the rules precludes FP from having enough people at the desk to take care of guests? What part precludes FP from apologizing or saying something along the lines of "we have to take care of the pilots first, we're sorry"?

The fact is that it was rude and uncalled for. Furthermore, I don't care if the airlines DO have a negotiated rate, I don't think it's appropriate to cut into line.

I wonder why Starwood Lurker hasn't commented?

I didn't accuse you of lying - I just think maybe you saw it from your perspective.

In which language is this ("Anyway, OP has a history of being anti-union, anti-employee and pro-management on the AA board so I will take his assessments with a grain of salt.") not an accusation that I'm not telling the truth?

...I wonder why Starwood Lurker hasn't commented?

Maybe because I haven't been asked to? :)

My comment is this: As flygirl94 and several others have noted, hotels have special arrangements with the airlines for airline crew. Could this hotel have handled it better? Probably so, and obviously there is anecdotal evidence submitted here that many of our hotels do. If I was upset about this particular experience, then I would call Hotel Customer Service to file a formal complaint. That way management is aware. Otherwise, they may never know and it may continue unabated.

I do agree with your premise that it is rude to cut in line, but what part the hotel played in that and what part belongs to the rude person who did it is obviously up for debate.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I'll tell you William, I called the 4Pt lax mgt on this a few times in 2004/5/6.. and it fell on deaf ears.

Why I go back here, I don't know.. i hadn't in a while but I guess I thought, Id try once again and nothing has changed

Its really bad at the LAX 4 Pts.. mental note, next one nighter at LAX.. try another property

Maybe because I haven't been asked to? :)

My comment is this: As flygirl94 and several others have noted, hotels have special arrangements with the airlines for airline crew. Could this hotel have handled it better? Probably so, and obviously there is anecdotal evidence submitted here that many of our hotels do. If I was upset about this particular experience, then I would call Hotel Customer Service to file a formal complaint. That way management is aware. Otherwise, they may never know and it may continue unabated.

I do agree with your premise that it is rude to cut in line, but what part the hotel played in that and what part belongs to the rude person who did it is obviously up for debate.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I'll tell you William, I called the 4Pt lax mgt on this a few times in 2004/5/6.. and it fell on deaf ears.

Why I go back here, I don't know.. i hadn't in a while but I guess I thought, Id try once again and nothing has changed

Its really bad at the LAX 4 Pts.. mental note, next one nighter at LAX.. try another property

Yes, but did you do it directly with the hotel? Or did you go through Hotel Customer Service? Management does not necessarily mean hotel managment, by the way. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Hmm I could have sworn I read something earlier in this thread that went like....

"6. I don't like being confrontational...." ....very odd ;)

mike

I've learned no such thing.

The pilots cut in front of a long line of paying guests.

The fact that you may think that they're entitled to do so does not change the fact that the cut in line.

Furthermore, even if they WERE entitled to do so, what part of the FAA rest rules precludes them from apologizing to all the people standing in line? What part of the rules precludes FP from having enough people at the desk to take care of guests? What part precludes FP from apologizing or saying something along the lines of "we have to take care of the pilots first, we're sorry"?

The fact is that it was rude and uncalled for. Furthermore, I don't care if the airlines DO have a negotiated rate, I don't think it's appropriate to cut into line.

Sorry to say, but you seem a bit resistant to facts. If their contract was that they don't have to wait in line, they didn't cut in line (that's just the way you perceived it) - they went to the front desk to be served per their contract. You may not like it - and neither would I - however, why should they apologize - they didn't do anything wrong.

Again, as Lurker says, send a complaint to customer service about how the handled it.

Also, again, I did not say you were lying but as somebody who typically posts on the side of AA management, it would seem to an outside observer that you like to find something about pilots and FAs to whine about. To be fair, I guess I am a bit on the opposite side - I feel AA has so significantly cut back on their premium products, including staffing, I am always pleasantly surprised when I have a decent experience expecting the worst.

All I was saying is own your feelings about pilots and FAs and understand that it colors they way you see a situation :D:cool:

well, as lurker pointed out, i guess that we have learned that these pilots didnt cut into the line.

you just had the feeling they cut into the line, from the pilots view they didnt.

a solution for this would have been, 1.) the hotel staff appologizes to you , sorry we have to check the pilots in first, and 2.) pilots should say something like. sorry dude, but we have priority over normal paying customers.

this would have given you a better feeling i guess.

anway, the hotel should change their procedure and should assign someone for the pilots and crews.

anyway, i asked my friend she is a FA for Alitalia and she told me that they dont have to wait in customs line and are allowed to cut into a line .
i dont know if this is for all airlines, but it seems that not only hotels but custom lines are fast track for crew members.


as i said, i would have escalated this at checkin, as whining afterwards doesnt change anything.

about the SPG checkin line, when there is only one line available and i see gold members in front of me, i usually ask the front staff if they cant assign someone for me to check me in , as i am a platinum .

in 9/10 cases someone comes out of the backoffice and checks me other waiting platinum members in.

dp

Way back when I was a FA for PanAM-- our rest began when we got the room key. Required crew rest ran from the moment you received the key to the moment you turned the key in. We had separate check in at hotels and separate customs clearance lines.

I would like to clear up a bit of misunderstanding about the crew rooms though-- Usually, airline crew gets the standard rooms- no upgrades! In most hotels, the crew rooms are the same set of rooms day after day....Once in great while a crew member will be upgraded based on good looks or charm, but not often.

Wow. You guys are a tough crowd.

I thought that the days when pilots were considered sky gods was over. I guess not . . .

I don't care whether the pilots had the "right" to cut in the line -- it is exceptionally rude to do so without any apology or explanation.

At least in my case it isn't that I think they are "sky gods." And I agree that it might have seemed rude to the OP. But:

1. Do you aplogize to all the people in the security line, stretching through the terminal, every time you "cut in front of them" by using the Elite line? I don't.

2. Do you apologize to all the people in the hotel check-in line every time you "cut in front of them" by using the SPG preferred line? Or before you "cut in front of them" by going upstairs to use the check-in on the Club Level?

3. Do you apologize to everyone at the ticket counter before you "cut in front of them" by using the FC check-in line?

My understanding is that the pilots employers negotiated a contract stating that they get served first, ahead of everyone. What *should* have happened is that the FP employee should have announced "Excuse me, but we are required to serve the flight crew first by contract."

At least in my case it isn't that I think they are "sky gods." And I agree that it might have seemed rude to the OP. But:

1. Do you aplogize to all the people in the security line, stretching through the terminal, every time you "cut in front of them" by using the Elite line? I don't.

2. Do you apologize to all the people in the hotel check-in line every time you "cut in front of them" by using the SPG preferred line? Or before you "cut in front of them" by going upstairs to use the check-in on the Club Level?

3. Do you apologize to everyone at the ticket counter before you "cut in front of them" by using the FC check-in line?

My understanding is that the pilots employers negotiated a contract stating that they get served first, ahead of everyone. What *should* have happened is that the FP employee should have announced "Excuse me, but we are required to serve the flight crew first by contract."

its a bit different to phsically push someone away and cut in line and skipping a long line using a special fast track line....

its the hotels fault, they should have assigned a special checkin for crews or should have assigned someone waiting with all keys so they wont block the other customers.

i am sure that if we complain about these things it doesnt have a lot impact, but MAYBE STAR LURKER can write a message to the GM pointing him to this thread ?

dp

...i am sure that if we complain about these things it doesnt have a lot impact, but MAYBE STAR LURKER can write a message to the GM pointing him to this thread ?

dp

No, but I encourage the OP to contact Hotel Customer Service and file a formal complaint. 800-328-6242 or customercare@starwoodhotels.com.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I can very well understand the OPs feelings as Ive been there myself. But on both sides!

having status on a few Carriers , Ive gotten to a Gate that had a mile long line for boarding and simply walked up to the front of line and handed the GA my BP. I never once explained to even 1 person on that mile long line that with the Status I have with said Carrier or Alliance that Im allowed to do exactly what I did , even though they may have been waiting say 15 mins and I just walked up, nor do I feel that I should have to explain why I did what I did, yea at times I get the Cat calls, and every so often someone will approach me once on board or after we land and tell me I a very rude person for doing wha I did, but then I explain to them that what I did was 1000% legit and a benefit for having Status.

Ive also gotten to the Security line that was a mile long with the Elite entrance empty and walked right thru and by everyone, could be alot of people thought somehow I was cutting the line , again I said nothing to no one.

As to Hotels I also walk up to the Elite area if there is 1 otherwise its to the back of the reg line. I also hate it when the shuttle wont wait or if someone cuts in line. However if its an agreement they have with said Hotel or Chain then that ends that. Im sure all the Major Hotel Chains have the same agreements.

I wonder does the OP have Status with any Carrier and when they walk to the front of avery long line do they explain to each and every person on that line that they arent really cutting ahead of them, but instead using a benefit of theirs for having Status with said Carrier or Alliance. I dont think they would do so.

I think there's a difference between walking to the short/empty priority line to which you're entitled, from pushing over the priority sign that is not for your status and pushing ahead of people already validly in that priority line.

I would have no problem with an airport hotel having a sign that said "SPG Gold/Platinum and Airline Crew" if they didn't have enough staff or a large enough check-in counter to have separate priority lines for SPG Elite and Crew.

But unless that's what the sign says, then that line should only be for SPG Elite, not for Crew. And even if it was for both, crew should not get to cut ahead of other priority-entitled customers.

Crew entitlement mentality drives me nuts. There's an airport hotel I stay at regularly (not a *wood property) that's fine, except for their van priority. Ever since WN started flying there, it's become a Southwest crew zoo. Although the hotel specifically has a sign-up list for the airport shuttles, the drivers give the crew priority. I've seen customers who have been waiting 20-30 minutes for the van (it's every 30 min) lose their place when the driver goes "Crew First" and a bunch of WN flight and cabin crew just showed up 5 minutes ago. I've raised a stink with management there as well as with corporate/loyalty program mgmt for that chain, and since they seem to have taken some steps to fix it (like additional drivers and vans for service in the 4:30-8:30 am timeframes) I'm not identifying them by name in this post.

But on occassion they're short a driver, and in that case the crew entitlement mentality takes precedence over even top-level hotel elites with a "reservation" for that van. I'm sure people have missed flights this way.

No, but I encourage the OP to contact Hotel Customer Service and file a formal complaint. 800-328-6242 or customercare@starwoodhotels.com.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I did so.

I wonder does the OP have Status with any Carrier and when they walk to the front of avery long line do they explain to each and every person on that line that they arent really cutting ahead of them, but instead using a benefit of theirs for having Status with said Carrier or Alliance. I dont think they would do so.

I do have EXP on American and status on a number of other carriers. I think that's different because the status is clearly published. For example, I board my flight when EXP is called.

In this case, the pilots cut ahead of everyone with status without any apology, pushed the sign out of the way, and asked the shuttle to wait (not once, but twice) even though the policy is clear that the shuttle does not wait.

I do have EXP on American and status on a number of other carriers. I think that's different because the status is clearly published. For example, I board my flight when EXP is called.

In this case, the pilots cut ahead of everyone with status without any apology, pushed the sign out of the way, and asked the shuttle to wait (not once, but twice) even though the policy is clear that the shuttle does not wait.

Going up to board when EXP is called etc isnt what I was talking about. My example is say you know the flight is in a sold-out form and that means that carry-ons will probably have to be gate checked if one didnt find a space in a bin. So either you were running late or your inbound flight is late. So by the time you get to the gate EXP was called along time ago. That means no one will know that You are EXP. Could also be the flight isnt sold-out but you dont want to stand on the line.

As for the Hotel its happened to me and I was told by the mgr that the Hotels policy was for them to simply cut the line and would the next ones to be taken care of.

I had it where they simply walked up to the desk and stood and waited for the clerk to motion them over. Ive also had it where they had to go with the Elite line and did say excuse me as they walked to the front of the line. I would think that they usually will do whatever the hotel told them to do, but if they simply were Bulls in a China Shop that would be most unprofessional.

As for the waiting with the shuttle which of cause wouldnt happen if I needed it to. Its simply a given for them. I cant tell You how many times I ran to try and get onto an earilier flight cause we landed early then we were suppose to. Of cause the planes door was just closed and no can reopen. Yet coutless times I see the door on my flight gets shut , only for it to be reopened and a dead heading employee gets on meaning we will now push back a few mins Late. Has happened a few times and some of the time they ended sitting next to me up front. So I asked what was up and was told they were suppose to be on the next flight but their flight arrived early so they ran over to try and get onto my flight so as not to have hang out at XYZ for another 1hr or so., and the GA said 'No Problem'.

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.

I just stayed 5 nights in a Luxury Collection hotel and every day the LH crew arrived and spend the next 16 hours or so feeling special and occupying the communal areas. Sure they get good rates and probably good business for the hotel, but as a shareholder or customer of the airline I really wonder if money is well spent.

I just want to make a point about crew rest. The FA unions generally gripe that crew rest can include transit time, paperwork, getting dinner, etc and can start as soon as the PAX deplane. I'm pretty sure the days of rest beginning when you check into the hotel are long gone.

As far as jumping to the front, the issue seems to be the exact same one as elite FF PAX. Poorly labeled, or no lines, inconsistent policy adherence.

I'm not sure is UA was the offending airline for the OP. However, I know from my work that a number of *wood properties are no longer 100% bookable because of UA room blocks. It caught me a bit off guard because I've only run into flight crew blocks at low end business hotels. Not nicer properties like Sheraton.

Here's my $0.02:

I don't condone that pilot's behavior but extrapolating this incident into somehow impugning the integrity and decency of pilots and flight attendants in general because of one jerk is, at the very least, unfair and unnecessary. A jerk is a jerk, period. Some of them happen to be pilots.

The entity that should be receiving our collective ire is the management of the hotel in question, not even the clerks or supervisors who were working the shift. So if it were me who witnessed the incident I would write a complaint letter to Hotel Customer Service as Starwood Lurker suggested.

/Sanctimonious hat off. :D

Folks - gentle reminder - this isn't Omni ;)

ldsant
*wood Moderator

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.

I just stayed 5 nights in a Luxury Collection hotel and every day the LH crew arrived and spend the next 16 hours or so feeling special and occupying the communal areas. Sure they get good rates and probably good business for the hotel, but as a shareholder or customer of the airline I really wonder if money is well spent.


You are kidding, right?? "feeling special"-- What the hell does that mean? Only special people stay in your class of hotel? Airline crews stay in the sort of accomodations they negociated in their contracts. For some airlines, that is a "basic" hotel, for others (like the long dead PanAM) the contract calls for a high quality, centrally located hotel.

I think it is thoughtful of you to consider the hotel's financial interest the way you seem to, but I suspect that if renting rooms to airline crews wasn't financially beneficial for the hotel, the hotel wouldn't do it.

Should someone who works for General Motors get to cut in front of the line just because their company books lots of rooms? Why is it OK if United employees do it, but not GM employees?

Because I'd bet United books 100x the rooms that GM does every year?

Sure they get good rates and probably good business for the hotel, but as a shareholder or customer of the airline I really wonder if money is well spent.

I'm not sure it's de rigeur, but the last hotel I saw, the airline (in this case BA) rate was < 50% of my corporate rate, which is already a good 10-20% off the best prevailing rate in most cases. Trust me, the airline is usually getting a great value compared to the rest of us.

I'm not sure it's de rigeur, but the last hotel I saw, the airline (in this case BA) rate was < 50% of my corporate rate, which is already a good 10-20% off the best prevailing rate in most cases. Trust me, the airline is usually getting a great value compared to the rest of us.

Airline crews = cash flow and guaranteed revenue --- ive seen some airline rates as much as 70% off.

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.

I just stayed 5 nights in a Luxury Collection hotel and every day the LH crew arrived and spend the next 16 hours or so feeling special and occupying the communal areas. Sure they get good rates and probably good business for the hotel, but as a shareholder or customer of the airline I really wonder if money is well spent.

WOW. :rolleyes:

Here's my $0.02:

I don't condone that pilot's behavior but extrapolating this incident into somehow impugning the integrity and decency of pilots and flight attendants in general because of one jerk is, at the very least, unfair and unnecessary. A jerk is a jerk, period. Some of them happen to be pilots.

The entity that should be receiving our collective ire is the management of the hotel in question, not even the clerks or supervisors who were working the shift. So if it were me who witnessed the incident I would write a complaint letter to Hotel Customer Service as Starwood Lurker suggested.

/Sanctimonious hat off. :D

My point exactly. Thank you. ^

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.
Goodness me, ordinary people who have to work for a living, and most likey also had to buy their furniture, are now allowed into decent hotels, simply because they're paying the price their employers negotiated with the hotel. I guess they also did keep their caps on and didn't bow as you passed them. Come to think of it, they probably made eye contact as well. Rising above their station and all that. Shocking, I say.
But that's what the world has come to, hasn't it? Nobody quite seems to know their place nowadays. I wonder what will happen next. Why, we might even lose the Empire.
Oh, Jeeves, I will have a little G&T before dinner, thank you very much.
:rolleyes:

Hi folks,

I really wondered about a few comments in here. I am pilot with a major European (!) carrier and flying short-haul. This per se means that I will have like 16 to 17 hotel stays per month average. I also will have to commute not less than 10 to 20 times per month. I hardly will wait in line at customs or passport control, just to arrive late at my flight - as unlike for a normal passenger me missing my plan means roughly 150 passengers elsewhere getting stranded, right? So I try to fulfill my airline's responsibility to get those paying customers to their destination. If this means I have to hussle through some rows and cut some lines - so what? Yes, I will do it. Because it is part of the job and any airport employee will do the same, just they got sometimes a special airport permit to use back doors...

About the hotel: depends on the hotel, the day's length and some other factors. Normally my crew doesn't cut line or whatever, but I also wouldn't want to see us wait at the end of a seemingly endless line... but depends on the situation as I said.

So I cannot comment about the 4pts in LAX, never been there - even less saw what happened over there.

Just wanted to enlighten a few people that pilots are not superior beings, but for sure have to be treated different giver certain circumstances. Next time a GOLD tier is unloaded and a pilot comes along, he should wait or what?

And on the opposite site: even outside of the airport some top tiers of my airline want to tell me what I would have to do for them recognizing my airline by the uniform - how nice ...

So next time before talking how mean those pilots are, just consider also the other side of the coin.

Thanks a lot and kindest regards,

~t

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.

I just stayed 5 nights in a Luxury Collection hotel and every day the LH crew arrived and spend the next 16 hours or so feeling special and occupying the communal areas. Sure they get good rates and probably good business for the hotel, but as a shareholder or customer of the airline I really wonder if money is well spent.

Flying for an airline just want to respond:
I could look up what hotel you refer to most probably, but it doesn'T matter in the end. The comparison with a bus driver doesn't bother me. What I really would argue is a more standard hotel. So what country we are talking about here? In my oppinion it is not Western Europe, right? ;)

So let me assume I get a standard hotel. If there goes anything wrong, let's say someone is doing a party outside, or the room ain'T alright - seen this more than often enough...

What will happen? MAYBE I will just recruit another hotel on the run without a negotiated rate - really expensive! Or I will just delay the next day's flight - as you are so management knowledgeable just do the math and tell me what around 1 or 2 hour delay would cost you/the airline.

And then tell me again I am supposed NOT to sleep in reasonable hotels. Were you on vacation or for professional reasons? ...

~t

hotels with > 300 rooms usually have issues of filling up their room inventory. Thats why priceline, aircrew rates and government rates exist.

I have never set foot in Four points Boston but unless it is one of those luxury hotels, the hotel did nothing wrong to accomodate the aircrew but i would agree that full revenue/loyalthy member programme guests should be accorded priority. Thats the purpose of the spg sign. If the pilot pushed the sign away or went straight to the spg counter, then maybe yes it is time for william to do abit of enforcement on his end by making the spg legal team to direct the hotel to ensure the spg counter is manned and is made available to spg members and not obviously ineligible customers like aircrew. Unfortunately, in this time, unless hotels are being threatened with legal/financial penalty, we as customers will always suffer. and btw, no one really cares if you are given a hard time. If i were the staff, i would laugh at your predicament.

Come on, what it the issue here: These guys don't travel for work but travel is their work. And I appreciate if they cut the lines at immigration, at the hotel and whereever. I am a lawyer and I am no different when being at work: I am entitled to cut the lines at security at the court-house, my court-house offers me a special parking lot and even at the court-house coffee-shop they offer a special line. So what? I cannot blame airline crews.

And you can certainly not compare the business airlines bring into a hotel with normal corporate rates. At big stations, airlines contract 50 or 100 rooms all year long, 365 days. Let's take NYC and LH. LH has 8 or 9 flights into NY every day. Assuming an a/c is staffed with 13 persons this comes up to a least 100 rooms. And these customers do certainly not bother to contact the GM before arrivial to get the best upgrade or continuously complain about not getting that and that Platinum benefit. Maybe the best guests you can get. Come in, sleep, get out again.

So if you guys would contract 100 rooms a day resulting in 36500 rooms a year in one single hotel, what kind of service would you expect? Most of us expect the full hotel crews to bend over backwards and kneel down just because we do 25 stays with Starwood's entire chain within a full year. If I had the buying power of 36500 rooms for a single hotel in a year I would certainly request priority of all of my staff and at least golden water tubs - but I assume they refrain from the water tubs to get a better discount.

The problem with the OP experience is the hotel and not the airline crew and the hotel's attitude in particular with the shuttle service: If the hotel offers a shuttle service every at so and so minutes it has to be available. And for Christ's sake, if they rent out 100 rooms to an airline and these people use the shuttle, the hotel has to make more shuttle capacity available. It is their service, their offer and I paid for it with my roomrate. And if the hotel is not in a position to offer me the contracted shuttle service I would have a serious word with the GM

Come on, what it the issue here: These guys don't travel for work but travel is their work. And I appreciate if they cut the lines at immigration, at the hotel and whereever. I am a lawyer and I am no different when being at work: I am entitled to cut the lines at security at the court-house, my court-house offers me a special parking lot and even at the court-house coffee-shop they offer a special line. So what? I cannot blame airline crews.

And you can certainly not compare the business airlines bring into a hotel with normal corporate rates. At big stations, airlines contract 50 or 100 rooms all year long, 365 days. Let's take NYC and LH. LH has 8 or 9 flights into NY every day. Assuming an a/c is staffed with 13 persons this comes up to a least 100 rooms. And these customers do certainly not bother to contact the GM before arrivial to get the best upgrade or continuously complain about not getting that and that Platinum benefit. Maybe the best guests you can get. Come in, sleep, get out again.

So if you guys would contract 100 rooms a day resulting in 36500 rooms a year in one single hotel, what kind of service would you expect? Most of us expect the full hotel crews to bend over backwards and kneel down just because we do 25 stays with Starwood's entire chain within a full year. If I had the buying power of 36500 rooms for a single hotel in a year I would certainly request priority of all of my staff and at least golden water tubs - but I assume they refrain from the water tubs to get a better discount.

The problem with the OP experience is the hotel and not the airline crew and the hotel's attitude in particular with the shuttle service: If the hotel offers a shuttle service every at so and so minutes it has to be available. And for Christ's sake, if they rent out 100 rooms to an airline and these people use the shuttle, the hotel has to make more shuttle capacity available. It is their service, their offer and I paid for it with my roomrate. And if the hotel is not in a position to offer me the contracted shuttle service I would have a serious word with the GM

i would like to see what happens if these pilots always run late, and our flights are cancalled, screwing up our mileage runs, connection plans etc.

so i rather wait two minutes longer in a hotel or immigration to let a pilot and his crew pass, than to wait at the gate for a pilot who came in late because he was not able to use the hotel shuttle with priority..

these guys are the guys who fly us to our destinations, and as FL pointed out, even if we take all members of FT and all hotel nights we spent, it doesnt come even close to what airlines all over the world are spending in hotel nights...

dp

so i rather wait two minutes longer in a hotel or immigration to let a pilot and his crew pass, than to wait at the gate for a pilot who came in late because he was not able to use the hotel shuttle with priority..dp

I don't think anyone would care in the least bit if it was two minutes, but its not TWO minutes.. its a heck of a lot more

I wouldn't be surprised if many of us have a significantly higher hourly rate of compensation than most pilots.. time is money

I wouldn't be surprised if many of us have a significantly higher hourly rate of compensation than most pilots.. time is money

Your and my hourly rate is not of any interest for the hotel. It is nothing but personal vanity. If you book 36.000 rooms in a single year in a single propery you are allowed to compare yourself with airline business. If not, do not brag with hourly rates and do not blame the poor pilotes. Every airline employee travelling on duty is a "Tiple-Iridium-Platinum-Preferred-Customer" and none of us mortals is - from the hotel's perspective - as important as he is. Even if your hourly rate is a four digit Bush-Peso figure. :D

I don't think anyone would care in the least bit if it was two minutes, but its not TWO minutes.. its a heck of a lot more

I wouldn't be surprised if many of us have a significantly higher hourly rate of compensation than most pilots.. time is money

its the hotel to blame. not the pilots.

1.) hotels should assign enough seats in the airport shuttles.
2.) hotels should assign enough staff for check-in




dp

Hi folks,

I really wondered about a few comments in here. I am pilot with a major European (!) carrier and flying short-haul. This per se means that I will have like 16 to 17 hotel stays per month average. I also will have to commute not less than 10 to 20 times per month. I hardly will wait in line at customs or passport control, just to arrive late at my flight

Perhaps as such an experienced pilot you can explain how a delay in getting through customs (leaving the airport) or checking into your hotel room is going to make you late for a flight.....

i would like to see what happens if these pilots always run late, and our flights are cancalled, screwing up our mileage runs, connection plans etc.

so i rather wait two minutes longer in a hotel or immigration to let a pilot and his crew pass, than to wait at the gate for a pilot who came in late because he was not able to use the hotel shuttle with priority..

Once again, care to explain how a delay in checking into a hotel room is going to make a pilot late for his flight?

Or how a delay in being picked up at the airport on the way to his hotel is going to make him late for his flight?

Yes, a delay in being picked up from the hotel in the morning could make him late, but wouldn't it be more effective for him to get ready early enough to make his flight? Why should everyone else be inconvenienced because the pilot can't get out of bed early enough. After all, they're telling pax to get to the airport 2-3 hours early.

Once again, care to explain how a delay in checking into a hotel room is going to make a pilot late for his flight?

Or how a delay in being picked up at the airport on the way to his hotel is going to make him late for his flight?

Yes, a delay in being picked up from the hotel in the morning could make him late, but wouldn't it be more effective for him to get ready early enough to make his flight? Why should everyone else be inconvenienced because the pilot can't get out of bed early enough. After all, they're telling pax to get to the airport 2-3 hours early.

Touché!

I haven't read this entire thread, but have experienced similar hotel/crew actions. I agree that most of the issue resides with the hotel and poor planning/staffing. On the SPG sign, there should be a similar sign for crew at the other end of the desk when the crew is coming in - they have the schedule and know exactly when they will arrive.

Yes, the crew only has to sign in and receive their keys which are already set up for them, but it's still a transaction. A quicker, more straightforward one than for most of the rest of the us but still takes some time/attention. All of that said, I've still had the occasion where the pilot (and it does always seem to be the pilot leading the charge) walks straight up to the desk, interrupts whoever is there regardless of whether they are engaged or not and request their sign in sheet and service. I watched that little scenario at an HI at BWI once while I was standing back, waiting for someone to free up as the front desk was packed, and all agents busy when the crew arrived. The pilot circumvented everyone, went straight to the desk and interrupted the agent. I give kudos to the folks at the desk, but the FAs were clearly embarassed as they had moved to the side and were going to wait a moment or two for the desk agents to finish, but that pilot didn't feel it was necessary :td:

As far as the shuttle goes, that is a contract thing and I've had the occasion in the mornings where no one was allowed on a shuttle as it was designated "crew only" for the trip (although I did manage to mistakenly find myself in there once and got to the airport far quicker than I would've otherwise).

sheraton LAX has a dedicated checkin counter for flight crew. I have stayed at that hotel many times and never run into the problem of flight crew cutting in line. :D

Once again, care to explain how a delay in checking into a hotel room is going to make a pilot late for his flight?

Or how a delay in being picked up at the airport on the way to his hotel is going to make him late for his flight?

Yes, a delay in being picked up from the hotel in the morning could make him late, but wouldn't it be more effective for him to get ready early enough to make his flight? Why should everyone else be inconvenienced because the pilot can't get out of bed early enough. After all, they're telling pax to get to the airport 2-3 hours early.

As I stated in an earlier post, if the pilots were only getting their minimum rest on a short l/o, the clock starts when they are "behind the door". In this scenario, the pilot would then call crew scheduling and then the airline can then determine the time of the outbound flight the next morning.

Granted, the above scenario only applies usually under irrops, but I think you get my point. The longer it takes them to get "behind the door", the later their next flight leaves.

Once again, care to explain how a delay in checking into a hotel room is going to make a pilot late for his flight?

Or how a delay in being picked up at the airport on the way to his hotel is going to make him late for his flight?

Yes, a delay in being picked up from the hotel in the morning could make him late, but wouldn't it be more effective for him to get ready early enough to make his flight? Why should everyone else be inconvenienced because the pilot can't get out of bed early enough. After all, they're telling pax to get to the airport 2-3 hours early.

As for your rude tone, I first apologize for not responding instantly and you even had to wait for five minutes without any response from me on here. Should not happen, granted...
But at least it gives a good image of what person you are ;)

About the other stuff, you should have already some answers. Unfortunately with many people enjoying cheap ticket prices, it gets more and more convenient for the air carrier to schedule their crews along maximum duty time and minimum rest requirements. That being said the time until entering the hotel is neutral time, not rest time.

I don't need to be told by someone that I am not getting out of bed early enough, as the company is supplying us with a special crew shuttle, so I don't feel really any more need to answer such a nice phrased question.

It might also have slipped your attention that I not only do one flight a day, Sir. Indeed, most of the day I do up to 5 sectors, and once in a while I also have to commute or have proceedings for the next day. This again means sometimes to go along the passenger controls and customs as well. And if the crew box is not staffed, guess what? I will use the normal lane. But as my scheduling department is in the process of thinking that one hour from on-blocks to scheduled departure is enough, it sometimes will get really tight.

I have to wait until the very last one left the aircraft, and sorry, I cannot run to the next gate along with the business traveller who makes it easily in 45 minutes. That means I will wait for the UM and WCH to get picked up etc.

THEN I have to care for my silly luggage, as this is not checked in yet. Then get a boarding card in the entrance hall. Then security control. And then - maybe- I will have to go to passport control, if it is a flight to a certain destination. And then, as I already laid out, it might happen that there is no crew line or they just didn't feel like opening the crew lane today - whatever.

So tell me what you think is going to happen if I miss my next said flight? The flight is going to wait most probably, or, if someone was negligent enough, it will leave. Then for sure the flight in the next morning will be delayed for some hours due to crew rest time requirements.

Hope you get the example anyway, otherwise feel free to drop a polite line.

And on a last note: I am for sure not the one telling you to be at the airport 2 or 3 hours in advance - that's the airline, my friend. I am the one saying that I am happy that even you are on my plane and made it in time, so we can leave now ON TIME.

On a site note: If you now wanna feel pissed at all pilots world-wide, go ahead. I hope I can bear it. I like my profession, although sometimes some people really can make your day... or they at least seem trying to ;)

All the best and many happy landings, yours

~t

As for your rude tone, I first apologize for not responding instantly and you even had to wait for five minutes without any response from me on here. Should not happen, granted...
But at least it gives a good image of what person you are ;)

About the other stuff, you should have already some answers. Unfortunately with many people enjoying cheap ticket prices, it gets more and more convenient for the air carrier to schedule their crews along maximum duty time and minimum rest requirements. That being said the time until entering the hotel is neutral time, not rest time.

I don't need to be told by someone that I am not getting out of bed early enough, as the company is supplying us with a special crew shuttle, so I don't feel really any more need to answer such a nice phrased question.

It might also have slipped your attention that I not only do one flight a day, Sir. Indeed, most of the day I do up to 5 sectors, and once in a while I also have to commute or have proceedings for the next day. This again means sometimes to go along the passenger controls and customs as well. And if the crew box is not staffed, guess what? I will use the normal lane. But as my scheduling department is in the process of thinking that one hour from on-blocks to scheduled departure is enough, it sometimes will get really tight.

I have to wait until the very last one left the aircraft, and sorry, I cannot run to the next gate along with the business traveller who makes it easily in 45 minutes. That means I will wait for the UM and WCH to get picked up etc.

THEN I have to care for my silly luggage, as this is not checked in yet. Then get a boarding card in the entrance hall. Then security control. And then - maybe- I will have to go to passport control, if it is a flight to a certain destination. And then, as I already laid out, it might happen that there is no crew line or they just didn't feel like opening the crew lane today - whatever.

So tell me what you think is going to happen if I miss my next said flight? The flight is going to wait most probably, or, if someone was negligent enough, it will leave. Then for sure the flight in the next morning will be delayed for some hours due to crew rest time requirements.

Hope you get the example anyway, otherwise feel free to drop a polite line.

And on a last note: I am for sure not the one telling you to be at the airport 2 or 3 hours in advance - that's the airline, my friend. I am the one saying that I am happy that even you are on my plane and made it in time, so we can leave now ON TIME.

On a site note: If you now wanna feel pissed at all pilots world-wide, go ahead. I hope I can bear it. I like my profession, although sometimes some people really can make your day... or they at least seem trying to ;)

All the best and many happy landings, yours

~t

hi,

its nice to see the inside , and to read with what kind of things you have to deal.

dp

On a site note: If you now wanna feel pissed at all pilots world-wide, go ahead. I hope I can bear it. I like my profession, although sometimes some people really can make your day... or they at least seem trying to ;)

Hi Captain,

don't feel pissed off by all people on FT, some here have a tendency to feel overimportant because they spend 60 nights a year in a hotel. :D

See u on board
TFL

Sure, I walk to the front of the line if I am entitled to do so. I however dislike seeing airline crew in 5 star hotels, sitting in groups in the lobby sipping cocktails and spreading their luggage all over the place, feeling all special, whereas - let's be honest - they are just like bus drivers and should be in basic hotels close to the airport.


Nasty..... :td:

don't feel pissed off by all people on FT, some here have a tendency to feel overimportant because they spend 60 nights a year in a hotel. :D


Ain't that the truth! The sense of entitlement and downright nastiness in some of the posts on this thread are really nauseating. :(