MilesBuzz! - Buy Traveler's Checks with AMEX cc

You can buy $1000 of American Express Travelers checks fee free each week with your American Express Card at an AMEX travel center. You can search for an AMEX travel office near you online. You need to have your cash advance limit be $1000, but it is considered a purchase, not a cash advance, although it comes out of this allowance. I had to raise mine to $1000 because I always lower mine because I don't ever plan to do a cash advance. However, for this purpose, I made an exception. You can only use an American Express credit card and each account is allowed to do this. So if you have a starpoints card AND a Hilton card, you could charge $2000 each week. You could buy foreign currency travelers checks as well as US.
Try not to abuse this as they may take it away.
I did this one month before posting this to make sure they actually appeared as a purchase, not as a cash advance, and I got my starpoints credited.
Why has this been a secret?

Ahhh, the Amex gigs... yes, I might have known.

Yup, this is one of those ones where many people know about it but amex has a way of letting only some of it slide--a bit--for now--sometimes.

A general example in life: I do a thing that technically should not be doable but only once and a while. So they let me do it. Once I do it a lot or regularly, they may be like, okay dude, enough for you. bye bye! And then I'm out. They let me know I've had my fun and they ease me outta there cuz they can.

Similarly, if I do it once and a while and only stay small, but I go and tell everyone I know, then they have the same problem, just many little versions of it! People may adhere to the "let's not abuse it" theory, but that only goes so far. The masses, by nature, abuse things just by existing! Have you ever been to an orderly but crowded outdoor concert? Look at the grass when it's over! WOW that grass is ruined, man!

And then, there ARE the people who go big on this sort of thing and that really makes them mad. (grass turns to mud and people get stomped on too--think: Lollapalooza :D)

I am a fan of sharing ideas and getting thru the loopholes or whatever this falls under. But I think even Amex has no officially quantified stance on this one and I am happily surprised they have never shut it down to date. I figure it will one day end, and no it is NOT going to be because it's posted in FT. I would go into this one with caution, treating it kinda the same way you would have used your fake ID back in college:

You got in tonight with it. Cool. Have fun, but that does not necessarily mean it will work again tomorrow!

those who did NOT adhere to this philosophy when using their fake IDs in college eventually got busted for it.

This gig with Amex should be treated the same way until their long arm of the law comes down on us all. Hey, them are just some words of experience in both matter(s).

:D
MM

good that you shared it though. Thanks! :)

I cannot put this in the same category of a fake ID which is completely illegal. This is the official policy of AMEX - that the buying of travelers checks is a purchase and not a cash advance for domestic or foregin travelers checks. Perhaps they make so much money on the float of uncashed travelers checks that they don't care. It is not illegal or a loophole. Could they decide to change it? Of course, but that is a different story. If you have access equally to more than one travel agency, it certainly would be good to alternate. I don't think an agent could stop you from adhering to the rules which is buying $1000 each week just because you do it every week. But then again, who knows. The nearest two offices are not that close to me so I doubt that I will be able to do 52 weeks a year. Oh, well.

no you are absolutely right. One is a legitimate loophole and also breaks no laws, and the other is a choice college kids make that does break laws but gets you girls so it's considered socially ok and necessary :D Plus, when you are like 20, they don't hang you for it like they might if you did it for a business or sponsored illegal entrants into the USA or something.

ANYWAY, the similarity I drew is in fact rather similar. here's again why:

AMEX, like other large bank companies, does have several products that can in fact create loopholes that could work in situations such as yours. But they do not, for many reasons, change or update or correct some of these and as a result, many of us can and will take advantage of these things when we find them.

They could and probably would shut people down if they perceived they did it too much, and especially with some regularity where you became all too familiar in their world as a user of these 'churn" like activities. Lilke the fake ID kid, if you stick your neck out TOO far, you WILL get caught eventually.

AND once they begin to really crack down on this issue, EVERYONE goes down--even the kid who just used his ID one time.

yeah, that's illegal but think of it from the standpoint of some otherwise innocent 19 year old kid who wouldnt even think of drinking and driving. he just wants to get in the bar and be cool. BUT the big bust happened and he looks as bad as the drop out senior who makes a living on doing fake IDs at $20-$30 a pop.

the relation to the Amex gig is that they may be able to live with a few people who seep thru some cracks in a non perfect world, and they may be able to handle the slight 'losses' if that is what they are perceived to be, just as a bouncer in a bar may let some kid in even if he suspects the ID is fake just cuz the kid has a couple of cute girls with him. the college scene is like that. Amex may see that you are doing other business transactions with your cards so they kinda let you slide. BUt liek I said, once everyone knows about it, things change.

I was someone who touted and regularly used the National City reloadable gift cards. You could load up to $5,000 in one shot, cash it out in a matter of days with a simple online transaction, and do it again. I think one month I did like 7 of them on 3 cards each! Since Citibank's Mastercard has the Virtual credit card feature, you could always use a DIFFERENT CC number to reload your gift cards, and their system would not see that it's the same person churning over and over.

one day, though, as expected, this all came to a screaching halt for me and a bunch of other people, and then, the whole thing came tumbling down brick by brick.

I recall getting a nasty letter from Nat City, who also conveniently 'held' my gift card funds on one of the cards I had yet to cash out until several weeks AFTER I would have needed those same monies to pay off my credit card!

Bastids! :D

their letter stated I was grossly breaking bank poilicies and this card was not intended for these purposes, etc. blah blah blah. It went on to say I was not welcomed to use their products.

I called them and they were obtuse, and even as I tried to explain that I DID in fact use my card for regular charges too, they said NOPE! We know what you are up to and it's not meant for that. Even as I stated their OWN policies back to them, I came to learn more about something I've always seen in marketing: Deals and schemes are put out there to the mass public to kinda work. If someone really makes it work well for themselves, they are not supposed to reach that limit and marketing changes the gig.

I have seen this a lot in my world, with banks, rebates, credit cards, ski areas, concerts, etc. And I am not just some churner scammer guy. I am just someone who finds ways to do things like you have, and tries to make them work while sharing the idea with others.

Sometimes companies like Amex don't like it when we take that much control from them.

good luck! Milk it til it dies. I may join you. :D
:)MM

You can buy $1000 of American Express Travelers checks fee free each week with your American Express Card at an AMEX travel center. ..... You could buy foreign currency travelers checks as well as US.



I am at a complete loss to understand why you would want to do this - apart from the poits from AMEX.

Very few people use Travellers checks these days when there are many ATMs available. TCs are an absolute pain and when travelling.

What do you do thith your $1000 in TCs every week?

cash them.
get the money, pay your AMEX bill before it is due.
get points for next to nothing.

I am at a complete loss to understand why you would want to do this - apart from the poits from AMEX.

Very few people use Travellers checks these days when there are many ATMs available. TCs are an absolute pain and when travelling.

What do you do thith your $1000 in TCs every week?I don't know about where you live, but my bank has absolutely no problem accepting travelers checques as a deposit.

Or, pay your taxes, pay your rent, etc. The uses are endless.

Hmmm. There's an AMEX travel center in the area where I live. I'm envisioning a little "mini mileage run" every week. :) Hey!, I wouldn't even have to go to the airport, and I can be home for lunch.

Let's see, I have a Hilton AMEX and an AMEX Optima card. My wife has another Hilton AMEX, different acct # (but tied to the same Hiton account). Hmmm.

I don't know of any AMEX card tied directly to an airline, but hotel points can be transferred over. Exchange rate is usually poor, but if the points don't cost anything, who cares? Or, I can just stay in 5* hotels.

I know, it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

You can look up (http://www134.americanexpress.com/travel/CTNWTServlet?request_type=tsofinder&ctrywrap=usa) where there's a travel center near you.

BONDBOY : It is completely for the points. For 3000 starpoints I can get a hotel stay.
I don't IMMEDIATELY cash them in. Still have the ones I got - $5000 worth. I found this out when I was getting 2 signature travelers checks for a friend that doesn't have a credit card using the cash she gave me. The people at the next window were using their credit card. So I asked about the details.
This is a situation more like the C2it of a few years ago where I racked up a lot of points because I have 4 different AA cards. It is like buying savings bonds when you were able to buy them with credit cards - and they took that away. (Actually, I never cashed mine in and they have turned out to be paying a very good rate of interest - and will cash out only as needed in the order of least interest. that turned out to be a good savings vehicle). Also awhile back Chase allowed you to buy travelers checks, and that got a bit ugly before they shut that down. What is hard is when they ask where I plan to travel, and I just say I am saving up for a big trip yet unplanned.
Just Google American Express travel centers and search near where you work or live.
You cannot use a secondary card on a primary account. The limit is for each account - and it comes out of your cash advance. If you increase your cash advance to $2000, and you find that it works, please post.

Deleted -- I previously wrote "IXNAY ON THE OOPHOLELAY" but you convinced me we shouldn't be keeping secrets.

You know, I hesitated posting this. On the other hand, I have gained from other people's posting of opportunities. I was unaware of this and would have appreciated knowing this years ago. So, now that you know, you don't want other people to know. How many other threads should we delete. I think AMEX profits from the float on uncashed travelers checks. They certainly have profited from me!!!!!

Another advantage of this is being able to get GOLD status with Starpoints by spending $30,000 a year. Don't always spend that much as it isn't the only card that I use. This makes sure that there won't be any shortfall since I don't usually pay for stays, so I can't get status with paid stays, and I have been using lots of award stays (quite a savings when I took my daughter east to look at colleges. Also was pleased to find out that Sheraton's allow dogs!).

I have an Australian issued AMEX, anyone in Australia done this?

IXNAY ON THE OOPHOLELAY! Any chance of deleting this thread?

Given FT history, I sincerely doubt it. That being said, there are so few AMEX Travel Centers in the US, I don't see this being a significant benefit for the bulk of FTers that live outside of a major city.

(The closest one to me is in San Francisco, and I'm not going to that length for a few miles.)

Mike

yuppieshrink: Why not call your Australian Travel Center and ask them if you can purchase Travelers checks with your credit card - fee free.
nako - but when you are going to San Francisco for some other reason, you might think about doing it....or if you are traveling to a different city. Sure, unless there is one "around the corner" it will have its limitations. Combined with another reason then there is no reason not to. Anyone living or working in a big city will, most likely, have several offices to choose from.

I don't know of any AMEX card tied directly to an airline

Delta

And JetBlue.

SPG card is basically tied to a ton of airlines.

And Air Canada...

Any idea if this works at independent amex franchises rather than corporate centers?

I'm guessing Amex crunched the numbers, and the $$$ they make from Travelers checks that are lost and forgotten about exceeds MR points they'd lose.

You don't want to use MR earns AmEx cards.

Membership Rewards®Terms and Conditions
If you are an existing American Express Cardmember with a Membership Rewards relationship, your account will be linked to that existing relationship and a $10 fee may be assessed for each relationship. Annual linkage fees may also apply if you have a Corporate Card or Business Card from OPEN from American Express® linked to your Membership Rewards account. For more information or to enroll in the Membership Rewards program, visit open.americanexpress.com/smallbusinessrewards or call 1-800-AXP-EARN (297-3276).

The following are not eligible to earn Membership Rewards points: Savings, Cash Advance Services, and Balance Transfers; Privileged Assets(R) and Express Cash; AMEX Travelers Cheque and AMEX Gift Cheque Purchases; Cash Advances; Fees and Interest; Charges for Dishonored Checks; Finance Charges - including Line of Credit Finance Charges, Sign & Travel Account Finance Charges, Extended Payment Option Finance Charges, BusinessFlex Finance Charges and Eligible Optima Card Finance Charges; Delinquency Charges; Bulk Mail Charges with the U.S. Postal Service; Program Annual Fees and Program Migration Fees; Card account annual fees; fees for enrollment-based Card services.

I don't know about where you live, but my bank has absolutely no problem accepting travelers checques as a deposit.

Or, pay your taxes, pay your rent, etc. The uses are endless.

One little problem, travelers checks are treated like cash when you deposit into the bank, doing this too often, you risk tripping over some anti money laundering
reporting requirement.

I travel to Thailand frequently and prefer AMEX traveler's checks to carrying cash and when I do cash them in, in Thailand, I get a better exchange rate than with cash.

Another problem, many small Amex Travel Centers (usually run by local TAs) won't be able/want to help you with this. I've inquired at various locations, and have usually been told that they require cash/only allow this scheme with Amex Plat and Optima. Plus, it's a fairly bureaucratic process, and I couldn't picture myself dealing with weekly purchases with three different Amex cards. Now, if it were 10 times the number of miles...

I am going to do a big trip in the Fall.

What are the advantages of getting Travelers Checks over just using a CC while there?

And what about foreign currency Travelers Checks? Is the value of the $ falling enough to make it worthwhile getting Yen and Aust$ now for a Fall trip?

Thanks,

Steve

I did this Amex thing last year for a while, getting my $1000 worth of TCs each week, and immediately depositing them at my bank.

After roughly 6 weeks I got a letter from Amex advising that they were looking into "suspicious activity" on my credit card account. I stopped, and never heard anything from them again.

Does anyone here have experience doing the TC thing over a longer term timeframe?

I travel to Thailand frequently and prefer AMEX traveler's checks to carrying cash and when I do cash them in, in Thailand, I get a better exchange rate than with cash.

Really?! Everywhere I've ever traveled / worked / lived from Asia (inc. Thailand) to South America to the Middle East always has worse rates for Travellers Checks. Some places you get better rates for the "new" $20s and $100s instead of the "old" ones, but the TC rate is uniformally the worst. At best, I've seen them be equal, but rarely. Maybe things have changed in Thailand in teh last five years since I was last there, but everywhere else the same paradigm still seems to exist.

peace,
~Ben~

I travel to Thailand frequently and prefer AMEX traveler's checks to carrying cash and when I do cash them in, in Thailand, I get a better exchange rate than with cash.

I had same experience at an exchange desk at ICN; there is a exchange desk just before you exit the custom area which offered better rate than outside the custom area including cash exchange.

schmare - perhaps the problem was that you immediately cashed the checks. I wonder if the same thing would happen if you cashed them more gradually. That is what I am trying. I have some old travelers checks that I collected and I am cashing them and depositing them first. I haven't done it all at once for fear it would get reported somehow. We'll see if I get a letter if I haven't cashed any of the checks I've gottn in the last month. Also if they were all cashed "at home." I am sure that they can track all of this. As far as they know, I am saving for a major trip.

One little problem, travelers checks are treated like cash when you deposit into the bank, doing this too often, you risk tripping over some anti money laundering
reporting requirement.

What kinds of reporting requirements are those / for what thresholds? I would imagine that people / travellers deposit unused TCs upon returning home all the time since most I know that do bother getting them do so "just in case." Merchants certainly deposit these all the time. I think we ran through this same discussion in the GC thread and nothing ever came of it. I don't see what is remotely illegal about it or how it could be money laundering, so please let me know. Getting a TC is just acquiring a cash instrument with one's own money (/line of credit). You're redepositing it into your own account. There's no tax evasion or attempt to or benefit from "concealing the source of the funds." How would it be any different than the fact that I constantly withdraw cash, change it into foreign currency, and redeposit when I get back from a trip. I think that Amex might get pissy over the terms/spirit of the thing, but I don't understand how it could be money laundering and would like to be enlightened before I embark on anything. Thanks.

I came across this Amex TC opportunity when I was looking for the next best thing after the Gift Card churning came to an end about a year or so ago. At the time it seemed like too much of a pain, but now that I'm in Manhattan where there are 8-12 Amex corporate centers I could do this, I'm definitely considering it.

Anyone who's done it low key for a while, I'd appreciate any tips.

peace,
~Ben~

schmare - perhaps the problem was that you immediately cashed the checks. I wonder if the same thing would happen if you cashed them more gradually. That is what I am trying. I have some old travelers checks that I collected and I am cashing them and depositing them first. I haven't done it all at once for fear it would get reported somehow. We'll see if I get a letter if I haven't cashed any of the checks I've gottn in the last month. Also if they were all cashed "at home." I am sure that they can track all of this. As far as they know, I am saving for a major trip.

For $1000s of dollars isn't the cost in interest (or lost interest if you're paying off the card and foregoign the cash in your account) greater than the value of the miles/points over any extended period? I agree with an earlier poster -- Amex makes their money off of the float so I don't see why they would care. It's not as if TCs are a convenience service / loss leader for them.

If I buy $10,000 in TCs one day and cash them at the bank even just a week later (or even a day later), they've earned interest on that money and it hasn't cost them anything transactionally. Why wouldn't Amex ENCOURAGE people to do this?

peace,
~Ben~

schmare - perhaps the problem was that you immediately cashed the checks. I wonder if the same thing would happen if you cashed them more gradually. That is what I am trying. I have some old travelers checks that I collected and I am cashing them and depositing them first. I haven't done it all at once for fear it would get reported somehow. We'll see if I get a letter if I haven't cashed any of the checks I've gottn in the last month. Also if they were all cashed "at home." I am sure that they can track all of this. As far as they know, I am saving for a major trip.

Yes, I certainly wasn't subtle about it, mostly because I was looking to do this with the minimum amount of hassle and effort.

Re-depositing the checks slowly may help, but eventually you'll need to deposit everything back into your account. I guess it depends whether it was the weekly purchase of the travelers checks causes suspicion, or whether suspicion arises when the same batch of travelers checks are all cashed together.

Hmmm....wondering if I should give it another (more subtle) go ....

Since these are treated as purchases but deducted from your cash advance limit (info from OP), would these purchases count towards the Delta AMEX mqm thresholds?

Re-depositing the checks slowly may help, but eventually you'll need to deposit everything back into your account. I guess it depends whether it was the weekly purchase of the travelers checks causes suspicion, or whether suspicion arises when the same batch of travelers checks are all cashed together.

Hmmm....wondering if I should give it another (more subtle) go ....

To do this right, you'd have to do, say, $1000 on 3 cards/week = roughly $150k/yr. That is a lot of Traveler's Checks in an age where virtually nobody uses them anymore. And you never know, cashing them slowly (apart from the administrative hassle), may also raise eyebrows these days.

What kinds of reporting requirements are those / for what thresholds? I would imagine that people / travellers deposit unused TCs upon returning home all the time since most I know that do bother getting them do so "just in case." Merchants certainly deposit these all the time. I think we ran through this same discussion in the GC thread and nothing ever came of it. I don't see what is remotely illegal about it or how it could be money laundering, so please let me know. Getting a TC is just acquiring a cash instrument with one's own money (/line of credit). You're redepositing it into your own account. There's no tax evasion or attempt to or benefit from "concealing the source of the funds." How would it be any different than the fact that I constantly withdraw cash, change it into foreign currency, and redeposit when I get back from a trip. I think that Amex might get pissy over the terms/spirit of the thing, but I don't understand how it could be money laundering and would like to be enlightened before I embark on anything. Thanks.

I came across this Amex TC opportunity when I was looking for the next best thing after the Gift Card churning came to an end about a year or so ago. At the time it seemed like too much of a pain, but now that I'm in Manhattan where there are 8-12 Amex corporate centers I could do this, I'm definitely considering it.

Anyone who's done it low key for a while, I'd appreciate any tips.

peace,
~Ben~

In the eyes of banks, TC is the same as cash since it's origin can not be traced/verified. I believe federal laws says that if someone deposited a aggregated total of > $10,000 in cash in a year, the bank has to report it. Remember that the act of deposit large amounts of cash is legal, same as transporting that cash in or out of the country, as long as it's been reported.

Now who gets to see this report? I don't know, but I can bet at least IRS is on that list and I certainly don't want to have a date with IRS.

how can you find if theres an amex travel center near you?

how can you find if theres an amex travel center near you?

Of all places, at the American Express website (under the "Locate a travel service office" link):

https://www134.americanexpress.com/consumertravel/travel.do

Mike

In the eyes of banks, TC is the same as cash since it's origin can not be traced/verified. I believe federal laws says that if someone deposited a aggregated total of > $10,000 in cash in a year, the bank has to report it. Remember that the act of deposit large amounts of cash is legal, same as transporting that cash in or out of the country, as long as it's been reported.

Now who gets to see this report? I don't know, but I can bet at least IRS is on that list and I certainly don't want to have a date with IRS.

Actually, the bank needs to report cash deposits if it's more than $10,000 in a day. The report is called a CTR (currency transaction report). As you noted, depositing large amounts of cash is legal, so this shouldn't cause problems or give reason for suspicion.

If you were to deposit large sums of money frequently, the bank may choose to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report), which is a much bigger deal.

Actually, the bank needs to report cash deposits if it's more than $10,000 in a day. The report is called a CTR (currency transaction report). As you noted, depositing large amounts of cash is legal, so this shouldn't cause problems or give reason for suspicion.

If you were to deposit large sums of money frequently, the bank may choose to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report), which is a much bigger deal.

Do you think that $1000 or $2000 a month would really trigger a SAR? Those amounts don't seem at all extraordinary to me given what banks deal with daily. Especially if it is seen to be regular, if anything.

Also, if I bank with BoA or Chase and do the deposits at different branches, would that decrease the liklihood? I mean, rather than a human flagging it for a SAR, the systems would have to flag the pattern, right? Seems a lot less likely to me for those kinds of amounts ($12k-$24k / year). Especially if they show as cash deposits as someone else mentioned. A lot of workers deposit their cash pay that way in similar amounts with similar frequency.

peace,
~Ben~

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7130e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

In the Spring of 2004, while on vacation in South Florida, I went to an Amex Travel Services office, and attempted to purchase traveler's checks with my Hilton HHonors Amex card. The office refused to let me purchase the checks with my card, explaining that only Amex CHARGE cards (not CREDIT cards) could be used to purchase traveler's checks. I called customer service from the Amex office, and they confirmed that the local office was correct.

Has the policy changed? Has anyone here used an Amex credit card (like Hilton HHonors Amex or SPG Amex) to purchase traveler's checks?

Do you think that $1000 or $2000 a month would really trigger a SAR? Those amounts don't seem at all extraordinary to me given what banks deal with daily.....

No - I don't think a few thousand a month would trigger anything. My understanding is that repeated deposits of more than $10,000 cash will trigger it, or repeated examples of trying to "hide" how much is being deposited (for example repeatedly depositing $9,999). Since there's a human element to it (i.e. the bank employee thinks something is shady), I don't know that there is one set of transactions that automatically trigger the SAR.

To be honest, my experience with this is very limited, so I could be incorrect!

Neither SARs nor CTRs will present a problem for anyone who is doing transactions that are 100% legal - as is the case here. They only become a problem if you are a drug dealer, money laundering for a criminal enterprise, or evading income taxes.

Charging travelers cheques to get miles doesn't break any laws.

I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ... ;)

They also tag you with a $15 per transaction (which means per $1000 limit mentioned here), so they are getting "something" even for an overnight out/in mentioned above.

Steve

There are no fees involved with this transaction. I have used my SPG card and my Hilton card. I think as long as there are charges on your credit card, you have a very good way of explaining the deposits of travelers checks. I would spread out the deposits to different accounts, and also use them to pay your other credit card bills if you can. I bank at citibank, so I have begun to pay my bills at the teller with some previous traveler's checks that I had gathered for trips but were never used. If everyone who deposited $10,000 in a year were investigiated, this country would be in big trouble. I agree, I think it is in one day.
I don't think AMEX makes a big distinction any more between Charge cards or credit cards. Am I wrong about that?

I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ... ;)
Only if people are keeping the checks well after already paying their AmEx bill. AmEx might have to wait 60 days between the time a TC is purchased and the time it gets the cash for it. If the TC is cashed anytime before, AmEx is losing interest (giving you a free loan) and had to pay the transaction costs to boot.

Neither SARs nor CTRs will present a problem for anyone who is doing transactions that are 100% legal - as is the case here. They only become a problem if you are a drug dealer, money laundering for a criminal enterprise, or evading income taxes.

Charging travelers cheques to get miles doesn't break any laws.

I don't think Amex will close this loophole because they make boatloads of interest from all the people who charge their cheques and then sit on them for weeks or months. Then again, if enough FTers do it ... ;)

Neither SAR nor CTR will present an immediate problem since everything is legal. However, you'd better keep all those credit card statements in a safe place so that when IRS come ask you where was those weekly $1000 come from, you are prepared.

Great tip. 1st time I knew of this. But I agree that this thread should be deleted. Suggestion to the mods to leave open threads like this for 1 or 2 days and then delete. Maybe allow a new posting once a month or so.

But again, thanks very much!

I'm going to try it with $1000 every other week.

^ ^ ^

EDIT: Quick question: How do I increase cash advance limits? Do I have to call them or can I do it online?

call them and ask to increase your limit.
I think it is funny that now that you know about it, and didn't know before, this thread should be eliminated. I thought flyertalk was about sharing and helping one another. If everyone else felt this, we wouldn' have a bulletin board. Let me think of all that has been shared.
TC from Chase
c2it
savings bonds
gift card at Wal Mart to use at Sam's Club
Double coupons for Healthy Choice

Oh, I'll just stop at that. Except for the savings bonds and Wal Mart which I found out or figured out on my own, I would not have benefited had it not been discussed here. I am always grateful to those who share.

call them and ask to increase your limit.
I think it is funny that now that you know about it, and didn't know before, this thread should be eliminated. I thought flyertalk was about sharing and helping one another. If everyone else felt this, we wouldn' have a bulletin board. Let me think of all that has been shared.
TC from Chase
c2it
savings bonds
gift card at Wal Mart to use at Sam's Club
Double coupons for Healthy Choice

Oh, I'll just stop at that. Except for the savings bonds and Wal Mart which I found out or figured out on my own, I would not have benefited had it not been discussed here. I am always grateful to those who share.

^ ^ ^ ^

Since you wished knowing about this earlier, I'll mention that I did this sort of thing with my AAA credit card when I was a starving grad student. (that's 3 A's for the auto club). They allowed free traveller's checks, so I used it to float cash while waiting for my stipend. You might still be able to do this, but I'm not sure.

Since you wished knowing about this earlier, I'll mention that I did this sort of thing with my AAA credit card when I was a starving grad student. (that's 3 A's for the auto club). They allowed free traveller's checks, so I used it to float cash while waiting for my stipend. You might still be able to do this, but I'm not sure.

AAA changed the terms recently; now TC purchased are processed as cash advance including AAA credit cards.

I have two questions regarding this:
1- when you get TCs, is there any processing fees in addition to the amount of TCs you want?
2- You can buy foriegn currency TCs online as well as i checked, and you can use any CC, the only problem there is processing fees and mailiing fees. I guess this was a statement.

I have purched amex gift cards at safeway for company giveaways using my amex card and have never paid attention if it was billed as cash or a purchase. Any ideas?

I have purched amex gift cards at safeway for company giveaways using my amex card and have never paid attention if it was billed as cash or a purchase. Any ideas?

It's purchase but there are fees AmEx GC purchase.

I have two questions regarding this:
1- when you get TCs, is there any processing fees in addition to the amount of TCs you want?
2- You can buy foriegn currency TCs online as well as i checked, and you can use any CC, the only problem there is processing fees and mailiing fees. I guess this was a statement.

1 - The fee is waived for AmEx card members.

Thanks!

Actually it was more of a suggestion so that it would not be overused and pulled by amex. :)

call them and ask to increase your limit.
I think it is funny that now that you know about it, and didn't know before, this thread should be eliminated.

One little problem, travelers checks are treated like cash when you deposit into the bank, doing this too often, you risk tripping over some anti money laundering
reporting requirement.

your deposit has to be $10K or multiple deposits that total $10K structured to avoid the reporting requirements under the federal money laundering statute.

1 - The fee is waived for AmEx card members.

Actually the website says AmEx Gold and Platinum card holders.

Steve

I am going to do a big trip in the Fall.

What are the advantages of getting Travelers Checks over just using a CC while there?

And what about foreign currency Travelers Checks? Is the value of the $ falling enough to make it worthwhile getting Yen and Aust$ now for a Fall trip?

Thanks,

Steve
If you think you know what is going to happen with currency values over the course of time, then there are ways to bet on the future value of currencies. Putting up cash now to buy travelers checks as a "hedge" against a fall in the dollar is not a good way to go about that, however.

As for the advantages of travelers checks over a CC, the only one that occurs to me is that you may avoid a 2 or 3% foreign exchange charge by the CC issuer. But travelers checks usually entail their own costs if you are exchanging them for foreign currency, as well as the inconvenience of going into a bank or exchange office. ATMs are the best in my view, though with them you will have the lesser security of carrying around cash.

I travel to Thailand frequently and prefer AMEX traveler's checks to carrying cash and when I do cash them in, in Thailand, I get a better exchange rate than with cash.
If you draw your cash from an ATM, though, you are already in the local currency, hence no need to exchange currency and worry about commissions and exchange rates. (ATM transactions should get one the best exchange rates. CCs should get the best exchange rates too, but with most of them there is the bank's 2 or 3% vigorish.)

You don't want to use MR earns AmEx cards.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, but the excerpted T&C in post #20 seem to indicate that traveler check purchases will not bring MR (or SPG?) points. Yet, others are saying that they do, and without any fees???

Just to add a bit to the CTR and SAR discussion.

Anyone who deposits or withdraws $10,000/day aggregate (so $4000 in and $6000 out will do it) will trigger a CTR. The bank has to investigate this. Doing this once or twice usually won't matter, but perpetually doing this will have SARs filed against you. Banks have a policy that after a customer of your profile has X SARs, you're out.

Additionally, most banks have an unpublished threshold that triggers internal audits. At some banks, its $5000/day, at others I've seen it as low as $1000/day, with $3000/day seeming to be the median value. They do this to look for people who structure. Depending on the complexity of the reporting the bank uses, you may be able to fly under the radar by staying below their threshold.

I'll echo the comment that as long as what you are doing is legal, which this is, you really don't have anything to fear. However, you WILL get at the very least a call from your bank. Think of it as doing lots of same-day turns in YYC: you're going to get hassled, so you better tell the truth up front.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, but the excerpted T&C in post #20 seem to indicate that traveler check purchases will not bring MR (or SPG?) points. Yet, others are saying that they do, and without any fees???

My understandng is that earning Amex MR points are specifically excluded. However, if you have an Amex that earns other points/miles (such asn the HHonors Ame, or the AA Amex, etc), you can earn those miles/points by doing this.

peace,
~Ben~

are you sure that amex mr doesnt earn points? where did u hear this?

i bought on both my spg amex and my amex gold bizness card today, i was hoping for pts on both...

r

EDIT: whoops, i see in post 20 where it says no MR points...oh well, too bad, i was looking forward to more MR points to xfer to alitalia...guess itll just be spg then...


My understandng is that earning Amex MR points are specifically excluded. However, if you have an Amex that earns other points/miles (such asn the HHonors Ame, or the AA Amex, etc), you can earn those miles/points by doing this.

peace,
~Ben~

I called my "local" but not that close AMEX Travel Service Office, and they said that if you use your AMEX HHonors or AMEX Starwood credit card to buy T-chks, that it would be considered a cash advance even if they treated it as a credit card. They said they had a client do this and it was billed as a cash advance. Do these people not know what they are talking about, or could this be correct? A cash advance off an AMEX is not worth the points.

Having never taken out a cash advance, do you have to do anything special to use the card for "cash advance" purposes (ie do you have to supply a pin like ATM transactions?). So if I just signed a credit card slip that it should never be interpreted as a "cash advance"? Can someone clarify?

I also wonder if the Travel Service reps are just giving the most logical answer and not the accurate one. Despite what ET wrote, AMEX told me these would be processed as a purchase and not a cash advance on my SPG AMEX.

I also wonder if the Travel Service reps are just giving the most logical answer and not the accurate one. Despite what ET wrote, AMEX told me these would be processed as a purchase and not a cash advance on my SPG AMEX.

I guess we'll know when we try it. I'm going to try it next week for $50 and if I get hit with cash advance interest on it, it'll just be a pricey experiment. Anyone else with experiences doing this, please post how it hit your bill.

peace,
~Ben~

I just got $1000 in travelers cheques and immediately deposited them in my bank account. Charges haven't fully posted yet to AMEX but I'll let you know if they show up as a purchase or not.

As I stated in my very first post, I didn't post this right away because I wanted to make sure that what I understood would happen, would really happen. It is considered a purchase, but it is your cash advance amount, if less than $1000 that would limit what you could get since it uses this availabilaity to get the funds. So my very first purchase was denied until we figured this out. I called AMEX while I was still there to raise my Cash Advance limit to $1000 so that I could buy $1000 worth of travelers checks. No problem. First two times I only used my SPG card. I got points transferred that included these transactions. It was NOT a cash advance. There were NO other fees involved. We are in the next month, and I have added getting checks using my Hilton card as well - a card I don't use except when I am staying at a Hilton which is not very often. I had to raise my limit to $1000 first because I never keep that amount allowed on any of my cards. I always lower it to $10 or 0.
There is no fee buying travelers using any method (cash, check, or CC) if you have an AMEX card of any kind.
You can buy foreign travelers checks the equivalent of the $US $1000 also at no fee.
It takes about a week for the $1000 cash advance limit to become available again, but I am not sure if the $1000 a week limit is related to that, or different rules by AMEX.
When I was getting checks today, I saw a notice that any $10,000 transaction in one day is reported to the IRS. I would gather that the same rule applies to banks.
The rep that told you that it was treated as a cash advance was wrong. But, because it is the cash advance availability that matters, they might be thinking so.

shukris - if I were you I would NOT immediately deposit the entire amount at once. Deposit a few on different days. I think your method is more likely to trigger suspicion as to your motives, whereas it is realistic that you could use your TC over a few days. Anyway, I am doing it differently.

The AMEX website will show different types of travel centers.

https://www134.americanexpress.com/consumertravel/travel.do

Some are labelled "American Express Travel Service," and others are independently licensed with American Express. Is it possible the conflicting info is coming from the latter type? And maybe this trick doesn't work with them for whatever reason?

See also: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7793887&postcount=23

I looked at my last SPG AMEX bill for last month where I made two different $1000 purchases of checks. When you click on the detail, under merchant type, it says Travel Agents - cash advance. In spite of that, I will REPEAT myself. In the points transferred to SPG it included the $2000 purchase of checks. There were NO cash advance fees. It was treated as a purchase. If anything else happens on your card, I would call and complain because it is happening as I was told - it is a purchase, NOT a cash advance.

I looked at my last SPG AMEX bill for last month where I made two different $1000 purchases of checks. When you click on the detail, under merchant type, it says Travel Agents - cash advance. In spite of that, I will REPEAT myself. In the points transferred to SPG it included the $2000 purchase of checks. There were NO cash advance fees. It was treated as a purchase. If anything else happens on your card, I would call and complain because it is happening as I was told - it is a purchase, NOT a cash advance.

Sounds like a green light to me! I can't wait to try this out this coming week... I have a lot of AmEx cards and in NYC there are a lot of these centers. The only thing I only have one of is a bank, but that cna be remedied if need be. But it won't be necessary because I plan on taking my own advice here:

Churn gently, folks. :cool:

peace,
~Ben~

Thank you. Advice noted. I'll wait a bit from now on.

shukris - if I were you I would NOT immediately deposit the entire amount at once. Deposit a few on different days. I think your method is more likely to trigger suspicion as to your motives, whereas it is realistic that you could use your TC over a few days. Anyway, I am doing it differently.

Thank for the OP, I will give it a try, but I don't think it will last long before AMX fix this loophole.

When I was getting checks today, I saw a notice that any $10,000 transaction in one day is reported to the IRS. I would gather that the same rule applies to banks.

Actually, the reporting of cash transactions (including cash equivalents such as travelers cheques) covers ALL businesses in the United States. Basically, any transaction of any type that involves more than $10,000 in cash in a single day must be reported, even if the business is not a financial institution and even if they don't ordinarily transact in large cash transactions. A car dealer will certainly know about this requirement, as it may not be that unusual for people with earnings from unreported sources to attempt to buy a car with cash. But the rule applies to ALL businesses - your grocery store would have to file a report if you bought more than $10,000 of groceries in a single day and paid cash.

I just called Amex customer service for my Delta Skymiles card. They verified that buying travelers checks with this card counts as a purchase, there is no fee, and you can do it as often as you like. They also give the approved cash advance allowed while you're waiting for a rep.

Since I just about walk past an Amex travel center every day, I'll be giving this a try. Thanks to original poster for the great info.

JJ

You are welcome. Just giving back. If it weren't for flyer talk I would not be lifetime platinum with AA and lots more. The limit is once a week which is about the time it takes for the cash advance to become available again.

Speaking of cash, does anyone have any good cash redemption ideas for MR points? I am convinced my Costco Business card-- which gives me a weighted average $.03 per dollar back-- is a better value than my old Starwood (I don't stay in hotels much anymore) or airline miles (I travel up front for work so rarely need upgrades). At 5% cash for gas, 3% for food, 2% for airlines/hotels and 1% on all else I love this card. No status, but I don't care about that.

However, I still have to use an MR card (Platinum) for some purchases, so any good cash redemption ideas?

Since I haven't seen anyone else ask this yet, i assume the answer must be obvious, but do purchases of NON-AMEX travelers checks also post as a purchase, rather than a cash advance?

I don't know of any other place that allows the purchase of travelers checks with a credit card. Do you?

I don't know of any other place that allows the purchase of travelers checks with a credit card. Do you?

AAA used to for its credit card until recently.

My Hilton credit card just closed and I went online to see my statement. I charged $2000 in travelers check purchases (two separate occasions of $1000 each). Well, 6000 points was earned. Can anyone explain why I got 6000 points. I haven't used my card in ages. I thought you get only 1 point per $1 spent which is one of the reasons I don't use it very much. Is there a bonus going on or is that the new ratio - 3 points per $1 spent.

My Hilton credit card just closed and I went online to see my statement. I charged $2000 in travelers check purchases (two separate occasions of $1000 each). Well, 6000 points was earned. Can anyone explain why I got 6000 points. I haven't used my card in ages. I thought you get only 1 point per $1 spent which is one of the reasons I don't use it very much. Is there a bonus going on or is that the new ratio - 3 points per $1 spent.
On the HHonors Amex, 3 points/dollar is the "normal" earning rate -- EXCEPT at Hilton HHonors hotels, as well as at grocery stores, drugstores, gas stations, restaurants, U.S. Postal Service, and wireless phone bills, where you get 5 points/dollar!

In other words, the HHonors Amex has gotten better! It gives the Starwood Amex a run for its money for certain types of spending. @:-)

I only charged my SPG card so far for this. I will definitely start on the Hhonors Amex. Already racked up 65000+ hhonors points in only 6 months with minimal spending so far. ^ ^ ^

On the HHonors Amex, 3 points/dollar is the "normal" earning rate -- EXCEPT at Hilton HHonors hotels, as well as at grocery stores, drugstores, gas stations, restaurants, U.S. Postal Service, and wireless phone bills, where you get 5 points/dollar!

In other words, the HHonors Amex has gotten better! It gives the Starwood Amex a run for its money for certain types of spending. @:-)

On the HHonors Amex, 3 points/dollar is the "normal" earning rate -- EXCEPT at Hilton HHonors hotels, as well as at grocery stores, drugstores, gas stations, restaurants, U.S. Postal Service, and wireless phone bills, where you get 5 points/dollar!

In other words, the HHonors Amex has gotten better! It gives the Starwood Amex a run for its money for certain types of spending. @:-)

AFAIK, 3pts/$1 or 5pts/$1 have alwasy been the deal for HHonors Amex -- it's the card that I put everything through. Keep in mind that it isn't an apples-to-apples comparison since the redemtion rates for Starwood and Hilton are pretty different as well and you don't have the transferability with the HHonors Amex that you do with SPG.

That said, I far prefer the Hilton card because I far prefer the Hilton resorts and reward opportunities, etc.

But why choose? There's no reason you can't do this TC tango with both cards for $1k/mo...

peace,
~Ben~

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7130e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

Since I haven't seen anyone else ask this yet, i assume the answer must be obvious, but do purchases of NON-AMEX travelers checks also post as a purchase, rather than a cash advance?

I think the answer would be "yes," IF you were able to find another traveler's check vendor willing to accept payment by Amex. But I don't think you will: Why would a vendor of another brand of traveler's checks be willing to pay the credit-card issuer (Amex) the percentage that credit-card issuers charge vendors for purchases?

You need a lot more points from Hilton to get a hotel, but if you get more points that is a factor. I think SPG still has opportuntiies at their category 2 and 3 which can't be beat, and I don't know what lowest redemption is for Hilton. When I started doing this last month, I only did my SPG, but then decided that for the same effort I could do both and it keeps my Hilton points alive. Have used my Hilton points in London, and it was quite a savings. Thanks for the explanation. It was such a nice surprise, and certainly nice confirmation that we will actually get points for this "purchase."

You need a lot more points from Hilton to get a hotel, but if you get more points that is a factor. I think SPG still has opportuntiies at their category 2 and 3 which can't be beat, and I don't know what lowest redemption is for Hilton. When I started doing this last month, I only did my SPG, but then decided that for the same effort I could do both and it keeps my Hilton points alive. Have used my Hilton points in London, and it was quite a savings. Thanks for the explanation. It was such a nice surprise, and certainly nice confirmation that we will actually get points for this "purchase."
Here's my ROUGH average valuation:

One Starpoint = 2.5 cents

One HHonors point = .7 cents

So, 3 HHonors points (~2.1 cents) won't necessarily beat 1 Starpoint, but 5 HHonors points (~3.5 cents) definitely beats 1 Starpoint. @:-)

As for the claim by seoulmanjr that "AFAIK, 3pts/$1 or 5pts/$1 have alwasy been the deal for HHonors Amex," that is false. The 5 HHonors points per dollar for certain types of spending is a relatively recent enhancement -- within the last year or so. (The 5 points/dollar used to ONLY apply for stays at HHonors hotels.) I've had both types of Amex for about 5-6 years, and I have recently switched most of my "everyday" spending (the aforementioned grocery stores, drugstores, gas stations, restaurants, U.S. Postal Service, and wireless phone bills) from Starwood to HHonors Amex.

As a comparison of redemption values, I recently spent 40,000 HHonors points per night for two nights at the Times Square Hilton (longer stays would be cheaper per night, of course, on an AXON or GLON-type award). Starwood's comparable NYC hotels are now running some 20,000 Starpoints per night -- which, I realize, is inconsistent with the average point values I put above. All the more reason for me to switch my spending to HHonors Amex!

I am most interested in exchanging my starpoints for the low end hotels. 3000 or 4000 depending on the day of the week, but had to go to 7000 for a hotel outside Boston. Could I get the equivalent with Hilton for 9000, 12000, or 21000 points? Are there any hotels that give you rooms for that few points? That would be MY basis of comparison on the value of the points.
Also, I no longer use my SPG for grocery stores as I use my Premier Pass card which gives 2 points per $1, but then frees up 2 flight points of the Thank You Points program.

I am most interested in exchanging my starpoints for the low end hotels. 3000 or 4000 depending on the day of the week, but had to go to 7000 for a hotel outside Boston. Could I get the equivalent with Hilton for 9000, 12000, or 21000 points? Are there any hotels that give you rooms for that few points? That would be MY basis of comparison on the value of the points.
Also, I no longer use my SPG for grocery stores as I use my Premier Pass card which gives 2 points per $1, but then frees up 2 flight points of the Thank You Points program.
I don't know how recently you've checked Starwood points redemption rates, but they recently increased the redemption category on quite a lot of their hotels (including the low-end ones). On the other hand, you are correct in surmising that Hilton HHonors redemption rates for the low-end hotels are not necessarily always a good value.

Regardless of all that, I think that for this type of purchase (traveler's checks/cheques), where you're getting 1 Starpoint or 3 HHonors points, the Starpoints generally have a slightly higher value (2.5 cents vs. 2.1 cents). But if one had an account they wanted to "top off" (e.g., they needed another easy 3,000 HHonors points to get an award), that might be a determining factor in choosing which card to use.

Last fall I spent time in Springfield, MA, Bangor, ME, Boston Logan, Hartford, Providence, RI all in Category 2 hotels for 3 or 4K. MOre recently needed a place outside of Boston (2 dogs, free parking) in Needham for 7K. If I can't get anything in that "price range" or location I look for a cheap hotel -the Choice chain allows dogs. So the Starpoints are more valuable to me right now. My daughter is now going to school in Bar Harbor, ME and the flights out of Bangor leave very early in the morning. What a relief to be able to stay right at the airport for 3 or 4K starpoints the night before. So for the next couple of years I know where some of the starpoints will be going. On the other hand the hotel I stayed in San Diego several years ago has been upgraded a category and therefore requires more points, as does the hotel near LaGuardia in NY.

Just to add a bit to the CTR and SAR discussion.

Anyone who deposits or withdraws $10,000/day aggregate (so $4000 in and $6000 out will do it) will trigger a CTR. The bank has to investigate this. Doing this once or twice usually won't matter, but perpetually doing this will have SARs filed against you. Banks have a policy that after a customer of your profile has X SARs, you're out.

That's not entirely true. Every single month, I have at least 2 days where I deposit $10k or more into my money market account and on the 1st of the month, I have over $10k withdrawn.

My bank loves me and has put me into their private bank...

That's not entirely true. Every single month, I have at least 2 days where I deposit $10k or more into my money market account and on the 1st of the month, I have over $10k withdrawn.

My bank loves me and has put me into their private bank...
Cash transactions?

does anyone know if this works in Canada?
I have an Air Miles AMEX
This would be a great way to gain air miles.

I called amex & this is true, you can even do this at their travel ctrs located through out the world.

But you DO NOT gain miles.

I tried....if you find otherwise, please let me know we could have miles galore...

Did we determine that you need to go to a real-live "American Express Travel Service" center in order to do this?

I called amex & this is true, you can even do this at their travel ctrs located through out the world.

But you DO NOT gain miles.

I tried....if you find otherwise, please let me know we could have miles galore...
Since a lot of things have been said here, could you say what you mean by "this?" Are you talking about Air Miles AMEX in Canada? What dgordon described in the original post did get him points already.

That's not entirely true. Every single month, I have at least 2 days where I deposit $10k or more into my money market account and on the 1st of the month, I have over $10k withdrawn.
If these are cash transactions, the bank still has to file CTRs, but has probably already determined that they're not "suspicious," which is why you're not having any problems.

Travelers Cheques - Sell
Travelers Cheques in the USA can be used like cash at most retail locations, hotels and restaurants. In addition, cheques may be exchanged at participating banks for local currency. A customer can go into a participating Travel Location to purchase American Express Travelers Cheque Products. In some Travel Locations, the Travelers Cheques may be purchased as a charge to the American Express Card. Foreign Travelers Cheques are available in Sterling, Euro, Japanese Yen, Canadian Dollars, Swiss Francs and Australian Dollars. It is highly advised to call the office directly to verify policies and availability.

It is highly advised to call the office directly to verify policies and availability.
Indeed, that is exactly what I plan to do!

Thanks for all the info, by the way. ^

I did this Amex thing last year for a while, getting my $1000 worth of TCs each week, and immediately depositing them at my bank.

After roughly 6 weeks I got a letter from Amex advising that they were looking into "suspicious activity" on my credit card account. I stopped, and never heard anything from them again.

Does anyone here have experience doing the TC thing over a longer term timeframe?

All I know, from having been "shut down by banks" on several gift card gigs of late, is that there is nothing "illegal" about it all but the banks dont like it when we find and push the limits of their marketing schema. Letters with wording like, "this is not what the product is intended for" or "activitiy that is not consistent with the terms and conditions of the card," etc. And when you call them up to dispute that you have, say, been doing some regular activity or you have followed the terms to the letter of how they are written, you often end up with a belligerent CSR or CSR manager who has you pre-disposed as a "bad customer." It usually follows a long on hold time and then you get a big fat NO. You have run up against the policies of the bank and once in their little black book, even if you are not really any worse than the next guy, you are marked and you are out.

Now, if you play it smoothly and never get to this point--and for some of these things it's only a matter of time--then you are lucky and happy. Everyone should remember that while this lasts. :D

For $1000s of dollars isn't the cost in interest (or lost interest if you're paying off the card and foregoign the cash in your account) greater than the value of the miles/points over any extended period? I agree with an earlier poster -- Amex makes their money off of the float so I don't see why they would care. It's not as if TCs are a convenience service / loss leader for them.

If I buy $10,000 in TCs one day and cash them at the bank even just a week later (or even a day later), they've earned interest on that money and it hasn't cost them anything transactionally. Why wouldn't Amex ENCOURAGE people to do this?

peace,
~Ben~

We thought this during Charter One banking days too mate :D^ If only the whole world worked this way, eh?

call them and ask to increase your limit.
I think it is funny that now that you know about it, and didn't know before, this thread should be eliminated. I thought flyertalk was about sharing and helping one another. If everyone else felt this, we wouldn' have a bulletin board. Let me think of all that has been shared.
TC from Chase
c2it
savings bonds
gift card at Wal Mart to use at Sam's Club
Double coupons for Healthy Choice

Oh, I'll just stop at that. Except for the savings bonds and Wal Mart which I found out or figured out on my own, I would not have benefited had it not been discussed here. I am always grateful to those who share.

Never stop being what or who you are because someone else told you not to. FT is for sharing. It dont mean you HAVE to share every little tidbit about your experiences in things you do, but I think once a topic is put out there in here, it should be freely discussed but with the modicumof "he/she shared something with us so that's a good thing regardless" in mind.

AAA changed the terms recently; now TC purchased are processed as cash advance including AAA credit cards.

This was never worded correctly in the AAA terms until now, maybe. I ran up against them when trying to do something with my Citi MC. I had set my cash advance on that card to $100 and bought something worth $1000 from AAA. Due to some bank trickery that some vendors will pull, AAA being one of them, their "temp authorization" of just $1 triggered some sort of override to this limit I had set and the next thing I knew, a $1000 cash advance appeared! What I later found out is that my CA limit had to be and could be set to $0. I know this is a different issue than this AMEX gig, but I am mentioning it here because when doing these sorts of things, I think people have to constantly watch and never just rely on any sort of automation in this if going long term. That's when you will miss some suble change or policy update and you will suddenly see some huge charges on your account and be (wongly) all mad at the OP or something. Just tread lightly but go big while you can! I know I have been so far, TYVM... :D

MM^ ^ ^

Last fall I spent time in Springfield, MA, Bangor, ME, Boston Logan, Hartford, Providence, RI all in Category 2 hotels for 3 or 4K. MOre recently needed a place outside of Boston (2 dogs, free parking) in Needham for 7K. If I can't get anything in that "price range" or location I look for a cheap hotel -the Choice chain allows dogs. So the Starpoints are more valuable to me right now. My daughter is now going to school in Bar Harbor, ME and the flights out of Bangor leave very early in the morning. What a relief to be able to stay right at the airport for 3 or 4K starpoints the night before. So for the next couple of years I know where some of the starpoints will be going. On the other hand the hotel I stayed in San Diego several years ago has been upgraded a category and therefore requires more points, as does the hotel near LaGuardia in NY.

Wouldnt it be ironic if one day your daughter later met and married a person who is seriously allergic to dogs and then, as graduation neared, she came to tell you she just got accepted for her first job out of college in AMEX's fraud prevention center? :D:D:D

(Well, as we all know or should know, doing this TC scheme is not 'fraud' but banks or some over zealous employees in them sometimes begin to see it all that way. And oh, my above joking is not there to jinx you. I'm just being me. :D)

There is NO WAY she would EVER marry someone who was allergic to Dogs or Cats. Her animals are SO important to her (I wonder where she gets that from). So at the end of spring break, this past March I drove her and the two dogs from Chicago to Maine and left them all there, flew home (On a frequent flyer ticket - always a savings of $$ by not buying a ticket to/from Bangor-25Kmiles), and this Saturday I will do the reverse - fly back to Maine, and we will drive home for the summer. I've had the 4 cats and she has had the 2 dogs. Right now she is really into Organic Gardening - I don't think she'll be working for AMEX. It's a good thing I have lots of miles saved and lots of miles still to be earned because she won't listen to me and work for American Airlines either. Oh, well. At least I've been putting all this effort to good use. I was able to fly her TO Bangor (twice) over her first quarter there which started in January on a reduced mileage ticket for 17.5K because of my Citi AAdvantage Card. So those people who think you can never get an award ticket are SO wrong. Oh, well, just more availability for us frequent flyer nuts.

My SPG account closed yesterday so the actual statement is not yet online because today is a holiday. Something didn't make sense because by phone it said I had a -$9 in the cash advance category. I called and looked carefully at my last month's charges. One time, I went to a different location where the transacation got listed as emergency funds. When I first saw this I called AMEX (at that point I was concerned about the points) and I was told to not worry about it. Any way, they had charged me $9 for the transacation, and had not disclosed this in anything that I had signed. The rep gave me a credit for the $9 and I plan to call this travel agency tomorrow, and will not use them again.
So, be careful and ONLY use an official American Express office. Even though this place is listed, it is actually a travel agency that carries out some American Express duties but calls them something else. So, if the office calls itself something else, I wouldn't get the travelers checks there.

I won't know until I see my statement whether or not I get the points for this particular transaction. I'll keep you posted.

....So, be careful and ONLY use an official American Express office. Even though this place is listed, it is actually a travel agency that carries out some American Express duties but calls them something else. So, if the office calls itself something else, I wouldn't get the travelers checks there.

Indeed, from reading the website, I got the general impression that it is probably ONLY the actual American Express Travel Offices, and NOT the contracted travel agencies (operating under different names than American Express, for example Ethan Allen, etc.), that we should expect to be getting the fee-free TCs from. The contracted ones have an asterisk next to them and the footnote reads: "Location operating independently under license from American Express." Right under that statement it reads: "Note: Availability of the services may vary by location and issuer participation. Please call ahead."

Call ahead I will (after the holiday is over) -- to the one official Amex Travel Office in my city.

BTW, in case this hasn't been posted yet, here is the Travel Office search page:

http://www134.americanexpress.com/travel/CTNWTServlet?request_type=tsofinder&ctrywrap=usa

I just don't see an official amex office in all of State of Michigan! Visions of gazillions of points are fading away:D

Kathy- I found this place doing a search and now when I look back I see the asterisk and read the disclaimer. So, even though it is listed through the link you listed, one cannot assume it will be OK. Lots of places sell AMEX travelers checks but THEY are not listed. So a lesson learned. Unless it's title is American Express, don't take any chances.
So gpap - you will just have to travel more out of state and make sure you include a week-day non holiday so that you can buy your TC's while away from home.

Kathy- I found this place doing a search and now when I look back I see the asterisk and read the disclaimer. So, even though it is listed through the link you listed, one cannot assume it will be OK. Lots of places sell AMEX travelers checks but THEY are not listed. So a lesson learned. Unless it's title is American Express, don't take any chances.
So gpap - you will just have to travel more out of state and make sure you include a week-day non holiday so that you can buy your TC's while away from home.
There's a different webpage where you can search for OTHER places to buy Amex TC's -- such as banks, grocery stores, etc. Obviously, I didn't include THAT link since such places will ALL charge a fee.

As I said, there is just ONE official American Express Travel Office in my town (plus a couple of others in the region); I will be phoning them within a couple of days to confirm whether they offer the fee-free deal.

The place where I first discovered this was Oak Brook and it is an official AMEX travel center. There are two in downtown Chicago but I rarely go downtown. So all the other locations I checked are travel agents. The link you listed is the one I originally used and had assumed that the ones listed would fall under the same category. Hope this discovery has saved some people follow up phone calls. It is really the one in Oak Brook which is the most realistic, but not really so convenient. For anyone working in downtown Chicago - or most downtown big cities, I think that they will easilty visit once a week on their lunch hour!

I called amex canada today.
The agent yes, I can buy traveller's cheques with my air miles amex.
it is considered a purchase, not a cash advance.
However, I have to go to AMEX Canada's Bank office in Markham.
Since amex no longer has travel offices in Toronto, just little rep offices inside travel agencies, there is only 1 place to do it in the Toronto area.

THanks to all contributors for this GREAT find.Anybody want to make a guess as how long it will last.

Ohio also has no amex offices...Can someone post the list of amex offices ONLY...There can't be that many around...And I wonder how amex offices abroad handle this the same way...

gpap I thihk you will have to do your search. there seems to not be a master list.
Given the scarcity of official AMEX travel centers, this will limit how many people who can actually take advantage of this. My guess is those people who can't easily do this in their own hometown will travel differently from now on, always looking to see if there is an official AMEX office at their travel destination. These offices are usually closed on the week-end. May change the whole concept of mileage run.

I was in Chicago 3 weeks ago staying next to the amex office:o

I will be in Rome in early September and will be paying a visit to the amex office....if this is still around:D

I usualy avoid joing my wife to her brother's place in NYC...but now I will have to reconsider;)

...My daughter is now going to school in Bar Harbor, ME and the flights out of Bangor leave very early in the morning...


College of the Atlantic? A few years ago, Princeton Review rated them No. 1 among colleges for the quality of the food they served in their dining hall. My daughter went to Bowdoin, in Brunswick, ME, which they put at No. 2.

...These offices are usually closed on the week-end. May change the whole concept of mileage run. ;)

Since a lot of the cheap fares (at least on UA) are only available for Tuesdays/Wednesdays, I can easily see a TC run being incorporated into a mileage run! (At least for those of use who are free to fly mid-week.) @:-)

BTW, I accidentally managed to find a master list of Travel Offices for the USA. Only the first 55 in the list are American Express-branded; the subsequent ones are independent agencies operating under license from American Express:

http://www134.americanexpress.com/travel/CTNWTServlet?request_type=tsodetail&action=4&region=United+States+of+America

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, but the excerpted T&C in post #20 seem to indicate that traveler check purchases will not bring MR (or SPG?) points. Yet, others are saying that they do, and without any fees???

Unlike other affiliated cards, MR is AmEx's program so it can set the earning rules. As someone pointed out earlier in other thread, AmEx can not change the earning rule for certain type of purchase transactions. I noticed that AmEx Blue cards (cash rebate) same restriction on TC purchases. Using SPG/DL/HH cards would be safer bet.

This was never worded correctly in the AAA terms until now, maybe. I ran up against them when trying to do something with my Citi MC. I had set my cash advance on that card to $100 and bought something worth $1000 from AAA. Due to some bank trickery that some vendors will pull, AAA being one of them, their "temp authorization" of just $1 triggered some sort of override to this limit I had set and the next thing I knew, a $1000 cash advance appeared! What I later found out is that my CA limit had to be and could be set to $0. I know this is a different issue than this AMEX gig, but I am mentioning it here because when doing these sorts of things, I think people have to constantly watch and never just rely on any sort of automation in this if going long term. That's when you will miss some suble change or policy update and you will suddenly see some huge charges on your account and be (wongly) all mad at the OP or something. Just tread lightly but go big while you can! I know I have been so far, TYVM... :D

MM^ ^ ^

At least Mid-Atlantic AAA offices posted signs by the cashers, saying that TC's purchase will treat as CASH ADVANCE a month or two before AAA allowed TC to be purchased as purchase instead of cash advance for AAA CREDIT CARDS ONLY. Someone reported racking up awards points by purchasing TC with AAA cards.

...SO wrong. Oh, well, just more availability for us frequent flyer nuts.

shhh! don't tell anyone!
:D
Well, how many miles are needed to fly a dog or any pet? Does your daughter belong to the programs or have her own amex to rack up points too?
She ought to try this gig in this thread even! I cant wait for our 11 month old to grow up so she can start earning miles!
(only kidding--about the grow up part :D)

:)MM

funny thought:

if one person were to say, go into the same AMEX office and churn this so boldly they looked suspicious and were never acting below the radar, wouldnt AMEX raise an eyebrow? What if that person did like 100 of these transactions in a month or something wild like that?

So, if 100 people walk into the lone Boston office that could be workable for this gig and did it only once per person, isnt that kinda the same thing?

I wonder how they'd view that.

MM, the answer is hinted at by this post (#25 in this thread):

I did this Amex thing last year for a while, getting my $1000 worth of TCs each week, and immediately depositing them at my bank.

After roughly 6 weeks I got a letter from Amex advising that they were looking into "suspicious activity" on my credit card account. I stopped, and never heard anything from them again....

I think it's clear that no one should push this thing to its limits. @:-) I suspect, however, that someone will. And then it'll be all over (if not before). ;)

Itsme: Yes, my daughter is going to COA. I haven't asked her how she rates the food. She's off campus (because of the dogs) so she eats the majority of her meals at home.
Marathon Man: We didn't fly with the dogs. We drove there, and I will fly on Saturday to drive back. Do not know if you can passage with miles and they are big dogs. I think the airlines charge about $80 to transport a dog - at least that was the case of a friend, but she had a tiny dog that she took into the cabin with her.
I have signed up my daughter for every program, but she isn't "in to it"", just thinks her Mom is a frequent flyer nut, and I drive her crazy over which card to use for which kind purchase. I gave her secondary cards to my accounts from age 15 so I wouldn't miss the miles and she would get experience with CC before being away at college. I didn't want her to go wild. She now has a Citi AA card in her own name (fee waived) so she is able to earn miles in her own account and build credit. Most of what she gets are from my accounts. She has a spg account, so I could transfer points into her account if she needed miles to be topped off. It might be time to get her her own spg amex and get bonus points, however her income is really too low to get one legitimately. Maybe we'll wait until she has her money to spend.
Let's not forget that there is a limit of $1000 per week so there is no way to go in daily and do this. Also, I think schmare's problem may not have been active buying of checks, but the immediate depositing of these checks all on the same day in the same place. I'll let you know if I hear from them since I have done this for close to 6 weeks, but I have not deposited the checks. I got some for a friend who wanted some checks as a safer way of keeping her emergency cash so those checks won't be cashed anytime soon. I'll let you all know.

So:

1. Do we know for sure that if you buy at a franchise AMEX office, you will be charged a fee? 1000 miles for a $5.00 fee is still a half-cent a mile, and puddingguy says he'd snap at that one. Anyone know what the fee is/might be?

2. If we call the office in question, will they know what we're talking about?

So:

1. Do we know for sure that if you buy at a franchise AMEX office, you will be charged a fee? 1000 miles for a $5.00 fee is still a half-cent a mile, and puddingguy says he'd snap at that one. Anyone know what the fee is/might be?

2. If we call the office in question, will they know what we're talking about?

Fee aside, I think the bigger concern is that a franchise would process is as a cash advance rather than a purchase which on most FF credit cards will run out about 20-25% interest on the spot, if I'm not mistaken. Those 1000 points aren't worth $20-$30 to most.

peace,
~Ben~

Fee aside, I think the bigger concern is that a franchise would process is as a cash advance rather than a purchase which on most FF credit cards will run out about 20-25% interest on the spot, if I'm not mistaken. Those 1000 points aren't worth $20-$30 to most.
In that worst case scenario, you could avoid the interest by pre-paying your AMEX to get a credit balance. The bigger expense would be a cash advance fee if it were charged.

In that worst case scenario, you could avoid the interest by pre-paying your AMEX to get a credit balance. The bigger expense would be a cash advance fee if it were charged.

Right, the fees from most FF cards are x% for an advance, but a minimum of $10 in fees regardless of the amount OR x% for an advance or $20, whichever is greater. (usually 2-5% in fees)

Cash advances begin accruing interest immediately / have no grace period - are you sure that carrying a credit balance would mean there would be interest of $0? Knowing CC companies, I'd imagine that they would charge me the cash advance fee and interest and reconcile that balance against my outstanding credit only once the bill is processed for the month.

All that aside, you don't earn points/miles for cash advances -- only purchases -- so if this is a concern, there's no reason to bother with this scheme anyway.

peace,
~Ben~

Cash advances begin accruing interest immediately / have no grace period - are you sure that carrying a credit balance would mean there would be interest of $0? Knowing CC companies, I'd imagine that they would charge me the cash advance fee and interest and reconcile that balance against my outstanding credit only once the bill is processed for the month.

All that aside, you don't earn points/miles for cash advances -- only purchases -- so if this is a concern, there's no reason to bother with this scheme anyway.
Well the whole deal dgordon posted rests on the fact that AMEX will process this as a purchase anyway. Pre-paying the balance is just a way to mitigate the risk for someone who isn't convinced, and fears a cash advance.

I guess I'll have to double check the very latest T&C in case something has changed, but yes pre-paying means you'll avoid interest. Let's say you took a normal cash advance on the 1st of the month and then sent a payment which arrived on the 14th. Your statement closes on the 21st of the month. The bank will bill you for 2 weeks of interest, not 3. By the same reasoning, if you had a credit balance you'd pay no interest.

Partial update. My statement is not yet available online so I don't know the details of what happened on my bill, but I was charged $9 as a fee which AMEX refunded. What got transferred to SPG was 812 points short of what I should have gotten. The agent said it shows in the system that I will get the 812 transferred with my next statement - closing June 27th. She agreed that it doesn't make sense. Nothing was said that it had anything to do with the $1000 being treated as a cash advance or emergency funds - which would have left a difference of 1000 points short, not 812. By tomorrow I should be able to see my statement online. I still have to call the travel agency that "sold" me the TC as emergency funds. I'll let you know.

The statement has appeared. THAT purchase was treated as a cash advance and I was charged 3.91 in interest, not the $9 that the rep thought, but she is crediting me $9. No other fees were showing. I pay my bill along the way, so the average daily balance was $204 which is why the $1000 at 23+% was that low. It look about two weeks to finally appear on my account with the two week later date being the one that showed. I have no idea if the underpayment of points has any relationship to this but the rep said it shows that I am scheduled to get 812 more points. I have a call to the travel agency that did this so I don't know what they will say, and if it can be done as a purchase, not a cash advance with them.

I just called my nearest center where i can get Amex TCs , they told me that they will charge my CC as a cash advance, so if they do it like this then amex will treat it as cash advance also? if they do then no points? am i right?

I just went to amex bank canada at lunch today.
the people at the bank won't let me do it. (including the supervisor)


so, they asked me to call the card centre again, and the rep I got this time said no.
so, conflicting info.

so, since the bank won't do it, I can't do it here in toronto.

From my local AMEX affiliated travel agency......


Halothane,

We do sell AMEX travelers cheques fee free to American Express cardholders.

When you use you AX card to purchase travelers cheques, it is American Express that considers their prepaid products, as a cash transaction on your account. We are an American Express affiliate, and we do sell their products but they must approve the purchase on your card.

Thank you.

Thanks for the update, dgordon.

I like how you could be in this hotel using SPG points right around when your statement cuts, and then go get more while never leaving the property:D

American Express Travel Service
c/o Westin Maui Hotel, Shop #101
2365 Kaanapali Pkwy
Lahaina , HI 96761

I imagine it would go something like this:

Front desk clerk: "Sorry sir, you do not have enough points to stay one more night."

ME: "Oh, wait a moment, please, I'll go get more..."

Cha Ching!

ME: "There, done. Please check my account now!"

:DMM

Unfortunately it takes about a week for the charge to appear on your credit card, and then the end of the statement for the points to transfer to SPG. And given the limitation of $1000 per week, you'd have to do a little better advance planning. But it sounds nice.:cool:

I just did my first Travelers Check MR, I have an Amex location right next to my office.

I purchased $3,000 worth of checks on 3 seperate *wood cards - I hope i get all the points.

If this thing really works I will be doing many transactions in the future!!^

Are these 3 totally separate accounts or secondary cards on a master account?

3 separate account. I actually wanted to purchase with 4 cards but the 4th only had a cash advance of $600 so I had to call to up it.

You could have bought $600 on the 4th card. Also, they can raise it immediately by phone while in the travel center! It takes about a week for the cash advance to clear and to show up in your account.

Why is there a $1000 per week limit? I was on the phone w/ the Hilton AMEX CSR and she said that I could charge up to my credit limit. Of course, she may not know what she is talking about. She did say that for a cash advance, that I'd have to give them my pin.

I just talked to my local AMEX Travel Office again, and the woman said that it depends on my AMEX card. For certain cards (Optima, true Platinum, true Gold, etc), I wouldn't be charged the cash advance interest. For others (Costco, Starwood, Hilton, Starbucks, etc), it's considered a cash advance and I'd be subject to the cash advance interest. She said when they bill it out, they have to bill it out as "cash" to buy travellers checks. That is probably why it earns points as it's not a "true" cash advance since no pin was required, but may be subject to cash advance rules (don't ask me how or why). Hence you can only buy as many travellers checks as your cash advance limit (if that's $5K, then you can charge $5K).

This woman at the local AMEX Travel Office seems like she was much more in the know, so I'd believe that my Honors card will be charged as a cash advance and be subject to the cash advance rules and interest.

Hmmmm.... I think I'll wait and see what other people's results are, before becoming a guinea pig myself! I certainly do NOT want any cash advance fees, nor do I want to pay any interest on the purchase. (I've never paid a dime in credit card interest, never will.) Fees and interest would totally defeat the purpose -- which is free points, with no investment (other than the investment of a bit of my time). @:-)

At the AMEX travel center I was told that it was $1000 a week limit. That it was charged as a purchase. I used my SPG and Hilton cards, and everything they said was right. I doubt if my cash advance limit were higher than 1K that they would sell me more, because they said that was the limit.
My problem came from making ONE purchase at an affiliate where they treated it as a cash advance, and when seeing it listed on my statement (online before end of statement) as emergency funds, I looked back at my slips and sure enough the slip I signed said cash advance. When I called AMEX and explained that it wasn't emergency funds, but I purchased travelers checks, she said that it didn't even use my cash advance limit, instead was coming out of my credit line. When the statement was finally available online, I saw that the charged my interest and I was 812 short of points. I called again. She said I was scheduled to get those points on my next statemment and credited back the interest. It was listed differently than my first purchases. No other fees were incurred in either case.
Don't push the limit and try to buy more than $1000 a week, please.
If you are worried, buy only $150 worth of checks, pre-pay your card so that there isn't a balance. I don't think you have anything to worry about as long as are at Travel Centers and not affiliates. She never said anything about particular kinds of AMEX, but I have SPG and Hilton so that is what I used.

The problem seems to be that true blue AMEX travel centers are few and far between, and most of us will have to deal with affiliates.

I'd like to know how that works out before I jump into this whole hog.

OTOH, it will probably depend on the individual affiliate, so maybe I'll do a trial run at the $100 level and see what happens.

The new SPG statement notes how much you have spent in the calendar year towards the $30,000 which is required in order to be allowed Gold Status. When I added it all up, it was $1000 short. I called AMEX and I was told that cash advances do not count towards "spending" and don't get points, but she would issue me the 1000 points for the misunderstanding. She said that there is no way to go back and change a cash advance to a purchase.
I guess I will have to spend $31,000 this year to achieve GOLD instead of $30,000. So anyone thinking that they will get points will be disappointed and it won't count. Perhaps for some it is not an issue because you spend this much anyway - but since this is not my only card, and use my Premier Pass for flights, groceries and gas, Diner's Club for car rents, and some places don't take AMEX, I can't count on $30K being spent. Buying TC will guarantee that I can achieve this.

Make sure that you don't sign anything that says cash advance, and ask them if this is a purchase or a cash advance. If they say it is a cash advance, believe them.

I have a Citi Amex through AA, but I didn't know whether that'd be accepted -- it seems like it doesn't always fit into the traditional Amex rules

You can go in and try. If TC are fee free for American Express holders, I don't see why you couldn't purchase. Start with a small amount and see if you get the miles if you are afraid to do $1000. Some here have said that MR cards don't give points for TC and it is written under terms and conditions. See if you find them.

I am very confused. I don't know if dgordon got lucky, or if it's just a very nice AMEX Travel Office ;) .

The place I called and spoke to is called "American Express Travel Service" in Palo Alto, CA --- is this the true blue AMEX Office? The CSR said it was owned by AMEX and their email has an american express extension. Anyway, this woman was the one who said that when charging the travelers checks with a credit card, the system will automatically make it a cash advance because it knows you're using a credit card to buy a cash equivalent --- no pin required. She said that it will always show as a cash advance on your credit card statement, though some cards (like true Platinum, Gold, Optima, etc) will not charge you the transaction & cash advance interest fees. She claimed Starwood, HHonors, Costco, Starbucks, etc would be treated as a cash advance and be charged interest, etc. Perhaps somehow dgordon's AMEX office thought he had one of the former cards and coded something to that effect (??).

I called HHonors AMEX CSR and she said it would be a charge not a cash advance. She also said I could charge up to the full amount of my credit limit. I didn't press her, but I'm pretty sure she's not right. She transfered me to the AMEX Travel office who told me the above (that yes it was a cash advance).

I then called Starwood AMEX and asked that CSR. She at first said that it would be treated as a charge, not a cash advance. I pressed and asked if she was sure because the office was telling me otherwise. She put me on hold to check, and she came back and apologized and said yes, it would be treated as a cash advance. I said would I have to give a pin? She said no, in this case AMEX would know it was travelers checks and automatically make it a cash advance. She also said that if I tried to pay off the cash advance, to remember that any money received first goes against regular charges before it goes against the cash advance, so I'd have to pay everything off and not use the card for awhile to let it all zero out.

So anyway, I don't know. I wonder if you bundled the travelers checks with some small purchase (luggage tag?) and they made one charge to AMEX if somehow the travelers checks denotion would be lost, or if it would be smart enough to line item the travelers checks out to treat as a cash advance. Anyway, I'm not going to try it out --- because if it is a cash advance as my AMEX office assures me it is, you don't get the points which defeats the whole purpose.

I don't think that I am "lucky" as it has happened this way for 5 SPG purchases and 2 Hilton purchases. Why not bring your SPG card balance to zero just before the close of your billing cycle, and buy just $150 of travelers checks, and even pay that off before the billing cycle. The interest would be minimal if any, and if it worked, you would now know that it worked.
On my Hilton card, which I don't otherwise use, it was very clear - I got 6000 points for $2000 work of travelers checks brought on 2 different occasions one week apart.

You could have bought $600 on the 4th card. Also, they can raise it immediately by phone while in the travel center! It takes about a week for the cash advance to clear and to show up in your account.

The CSR didn't know immediately the reason why the transaction was declined.
I have a $12,500 cash advance limit of you think doing that much each week would give me the max points?

I wouldn't do more than $1000 per week per card!:td:

The CSR didn't know immediately the reason why the transaction was declined.
I have a $12,500 cash advance limit of you think doing that much each week would give me the max points?

1) That won't work. Read the earlier posts.
2) If you get greedy with this, they will shut you down. Do it for $1000 here and there and enjoy the free points. Fly too close to the sun and they're going to burn your wings off.

peace,
~Ben~

I may try that. Unfortunately I have been using my HHonors and SPG AMEX card alot, so would have to bring them completely to zero first. I think I'll wait until closer to the billing close as you suggest, if I do take the time to attempt it. However, the person at the AMEX Travel Service place told me that another client of hers got charged the cash advance --- apparently he/she had called to complain. So I have been duly warned by her.

I don't think that I am "lucky" as it has happened this way for 5 SPG purchases and 2 Hilton purchases. Why not bring your SPG card balance to zero just before the close of your billing cycle, and buy just $150 of travelers checks, and even pay that off before the billing cycle. The interest would be minimal if any, and if it worked, you would now know that it worked.
On my Hilton card, which I don't otherwise use, it was very clear - I got 6000 points for $2000 work of travelers checks brought on 2 different occasions one week apart.

the person at the AMEX Travel Service place told me that another client of hers got charged the cash advance --- apparently he/she had called to complain.

Probably someone who read this thread! LOL

peace,
~Ben~

Actually, the bank needs to report cash deposits if it's more than $10,000 in a day. The report is called a CTR (currency transaction report). As you noted, depositing large amounts of cash is legal, so this shouldn't cause problems or give reason for suspicion.

If you were to deposit large sums of money frequently, the bank may choose to file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report), which is a much bigger deal.

I believe the amount was lowered to $5,000 in recent years.

You could clear just one of the cards and only use the other and try the purchase on that card. Next time I go (maybe tomorrow) I could ask about why someone would have the problem of it being considered a cash advance instead of a purchase. When I click on the details of the transaction this is what it shows:
Transaction Date: 05/25/2007
Post Date: No Additional Information
Transaction Description: AMERICAN EXPRESS TRS U.S.A.
000000000

Charge: $1,000.00
Merchant Address: AMERICAN EXPRESS TRAVEL
1600 16TH ST

OAK BROOK IL 60523
USA

Merchant Type: TVL AGNTS-CASH ADVNC
Doing Business As: AMERICAN EXPRESS TRVL CKS

In spite of it saying cash advnc under Merchant type - it is clearly a purchase, no interest, no fees and points.


It is still $10,000 according to the notice at the teller's window at AMEX

Aw, screw it.

I'll be stopping in next Monday on my way from the airport. I'll get a $1000 set of TC's and insist they're a purchase. We'll see where it goes.

I'm tired of all this if-then-else-maybe fannying about.

Merchant Type: TVL AGNTS-CASH ADVNC
Doing Business As: AMERICAN EXPRESS TRVL CKS

In spite of it saying cash advnc under Merchant type - it is clearly a purchase, no interest, no fees and points.

Same for my first attempt. If it was regular cash advance, it would show fees.

Aw, screw it.
...
I'm tired of all this if-then-else-maybe fannying about.

The tone of that post is totally in line with what I envision when I see the name "BigLar". :)

I'm gong to buy some tomorrow at lunch, too. Here's to hopin'! ^

peace,
~Ben~

OH my, If I had realized what stres I would be putting people through, I might have decided to keep this all to myself.:(

OH my, If I had realized what stres I would be putting people through, I might have decided to keep this all to myself.:(

A darn good thing that you didnt. I'm a thousand SPG points richer. In addition, I discovered some other benefits of traveler's cheques that I hadn't foreseen.

OH my, If I had realized what stres I would be putting people through, I might have decided to keep this all to myself.:(

I wouldn't be ine business if you wouldn't have shared! Now I can get 1,000's of starpoints a week!

OH my, If I had realized what stres I would be putting people through, I might have decided to keep this all to myself.:(
A little bit of stress is all part of the game! Don't regret sharing. @:-)

AUS Flyertalkers alert: The three AmEx agencies in Austin, all "Accent Travel" offices, will NOT allow you to buy TC's using your AmEx card.

Their reason is that "it would be like giving you a cash advance." Well, duh! No amount of questioning or explaining would get them to budge.

I would report them to Amex headquarters.They have a franchise and are in the business of selling Travelers Cheques.What you do with them is not of their concern.I contacted a local Agency office to clarify the question about Purchase vs Cash advance,they said it would be treated as a purchase.I told them if it was otherwise I would hold them respondsible for any charges to my card in excess of actual purchase.Would suggest getting clairfication and understanding before buying.

They are an affiliate rather than an official AMEX office, so I am not surprised. Reporting them will do you no good. You can get TC fee free, but what I am seeing is that the affiliates do it this way and the official AMEX offices treat it as a purchase. It has nothing to do with what you are going to do with the travelers checks. Maybe they have to pay whereas the official AMEX offices don't have to pay credit card commisions because they are AMEX.

AUS Flyertalkers alert: The three AmEx agencies in Austin, all "Accent Travel" offices, will NOT allow you to buy TC's using your AmEx card.

Their reason is that "it would be like giving you a cash advance." Well, duh! No amount of questioning or explaining would get them to budge.

A Amex agency refusing to accept an American Express card for purchases,What if you wanted to purchase a cruise?You bet I would let Amex Headquarters know about this refusal.What is the purpose of having them as an agency.Maybe they should take the Amex logo sign down.Burn this Dummy.

A Amex agency refusing to accept an American Express card for purchases,What if you wanted to purchase a cruise?You bet I would let Amex Headquarters know about this refusal.What is the purpose of having them as an agency.Maybe they should take the Amex logo sign down.Burn this Dummy.

They are very likely doing the right thing. In fact, they would possibly risk losing their Amex acceptance privileges if they DID allow you to purchase T/C's with an Amex as a purchase charge, in the absence of a special arrangement with Amex.

Merchant agreements generally have a specific clause which prohibits the merchant from allowing people to "purchase" cash or cash equivalents. And unless the merchant is specifically set up to process cash advances, it's not an option that most merchants would even have on their accounts.

Getiton
They sell American Express Travelers Checks. You can purchase them with cash, checks, or an AMEX credit card. They do American Express tours. They have every right to keep their logo. The fact that they can't sell it as a purchase is unfortunate for the consumer, but that's how it is. We are lucky that the official AMEX offices ARE allowing this as a purchase. And it always feels awful when you can't take advantage of an opportunity. No different than targeting offers when YOU don't get them and someone else does.
You'll just have to make frequent trips to Dallas, Chicago and New York.

In the course of an hour, no less than 4 people (have to be Ft'ers) walked into the AMEX Center closest to me, each asking for $1,000 purchases of travelers cheques on separate cards and inquiring "because it has been so long" as to whether they would get charged cash advance fees.

The teller specifically warned me that there might be cash advance charges in the future. They are real suspicious at the sudden increase in these kinds of requests.

Rats...

And that is why arguing with an agency to do it differently will only encourage them to change it everywhere and in their eyes remove an issue. When I was at the Travel Center today, somone wanted to charge their purchase on their Master Card. The teller said, only American Express or a check. She bought her purchase by check.
I'm amazed how many people don't have AMEX cards and therefore pay fees for their American Express checks and foreign currency. They don't realize that they would save the fee, or perhaps don't travel enough to see that it is worth it (some people actually buy travelers checks because they are "traveling.") What a concept.:)

I used to get TC for travel. But now days it's such a hassle to exchange them as opposed to cash & many places charge you a "convenience" fee to exchange them. But when I was using them, I would get them at AAA for free.

Domestically there should be no charge, just like cash or a check. It is in foreign countries when you are exchanging them that there is sometimes a greater fee than if you were changing dollars.

I used to get TC for travel. But now days it's such a hassle to exchange them as opposed to cash & many places charge you a "convenience" fee to exchange them. But when I was using them, I would get them at AAA for free.

Unless you are really in a very remote third world country, an ATM card is the ONLY logical way to get cash in a foreign country, particularly if your bank (like mine) does not charge you for using ATMs at other banks.

You're right. I wasn't clear on that. I never used them traveling domestically. Credit cards are just too easy. But overseas many of those have added fees & so used TC until they started imposing all the barriers.

Unless you are really in a very remote third world country, an ATM card is the ONLY logical way to get cash in a foreign country, particularly if your bank (like mine) does not charge you for using ATMs at other banks.
I travel pretty remotely & have had problems with my pin not working even when traveling in western countries (different # of digits or something). But when available & when it works ATMs are great. I always take cash too since I'm never sure unless I've been to the country before.

And you need a debit card that doesn't charge a fee every time you take out cash. I use my Citibank ATM because it doesn't charge any fees, but I always have Travelers Checks with me "just in case."

And you need a debit card that doesn't charge a fee every time you take out cash. I use my Citibank ATM because it doesn't charge any fees, but I always have Travelers Checks with me "just in case."

Hmmm, Citi always charges me a fee in a foreign country unless I'm able to find a Citi ATM. Otherwise: 1) fee for non-Citi ATM use or 2) percentage fee for any charges made in a foreign currency (now itemized separately)

Getiton
They sell American Express Travelers Checks. You can purchase them with cash, checks, or an AMEX credit card. They do American Express tours. They have every right to keep their logo. The fact that they can't sell it as a purchase is unfortunate for the consumer, but that's how it is. We are lucky that the official AMEX offices ARE allowing this as a purchase. And it always feels awful when you can't take advantage of an opportunity. No different than targeting offers when YOU don't get them and someone else does.
You'll just have to make frequent trips to Dallas, Chicago and New York.

Well put. Lots of people don't have access to this "deal." Move on and wait for the next one.

drjh -you might want to ask your citibank branch what is needed to have the fees waived. I believe it is a minimum of 2500 at the bank in any combination of accounts. or it might be a certain kind of account. I do believe initially when I first opened my account for this purpose, that it was a $2500 minimum.

I would report them to Amex headquarters.They have a franchise and are in the business of selling Travelers Cheques.What you do with them is not of their concern.I contacted a local Agency office to clarify the question about Purchase vs Cash advance,they said it would be treated as a purchase.I told them if it was otherwise I would hold them respondsible for any charges to my card in excess of actual purchase.Would suggest getting clairfication and understanding before buying.

I called AMEX, and regardless of how the agency treats it (purchase, cash advance, etc), the CSR said AMEX will automatically change it to cash advance *on their end* when it's coded as a travelers check purchase. AMEX CSR said that's because you are buying a cash equivalent with a credit card (is it in the small print?). She said you don't need to enter a pin or sign anything saying cash advance, that it will be a cash advance & you should know it will be treated as a cash advance. Even when it worked correctly for dgordon, it still is listed as a cash advance. Whether or not you get whacked with the transaction fees and interest is another story. If the agency codes it as a cash advance, then chances are high you will get charged the fees/interest --- if the agency codes it as a purchase, that's when it gets a little fuzzy, and maybe where alot of people have been fortunate.

In the past I used the Travelers Cheque card to buy travelers checks. Here there was no way for them to charge a cash advance fee. You received the points when you bought the Travelers Cheque card using an Amex points yielding card. Unfortunately they quickly shut down the cards and it was a real pain to get any money left on the card out. I will be surprised if Amex does not quickly shut this deal down.

I will be surprised if Amex does not quickly shut this deal down.

:( With people calling AmEx about this it won't last too long...

FWIW this is hardly a secret. Its been going on since the early 90s.

Isnt FT about exploiting loopholes? and this hasn't been covered?

People have been asking for years if there was any way to buy travelers checks with a credit card. and if people knew they have been keeping it a secret. When
Chase was selling travelers checks that could be charged to any credit card, it was all over here and there were threads about it. It got shot down. I hope that it doesn't happen here. I would suggest you stop calling amex and make a very small purchase (min I think is $150) towards the end of your billing cycle, and only at an official AMEX and see what happens. If it is handled as a case advance you will see it listed that way and pay very little interest, and you will know you can't do it.
When I called about the one place charging as a cash advance, the first gal refunded the interest, and the next gal said she would give me the 1000 points (haven't seen it posted yet???). Clearly not all reps know the same.
The other people who have gone ahead and tried this will give us feedback on how it turns out.

I would suggest you stop calling amex and make a very small purchase (min I think is $150) towards the end of your billing cycle, and only at an official AMEX and see what happens.

Just repeating for emphasis. Please, people!

peace,
~Ben~

Stopped in today at a mom&pop travel agency. They called AMEX for authorization. Used my Hilton Platinum AMEX. Got $500 worth of checques.

The receipt showed no fees, I entered no PIN. I signed a receipt that looks like a regular cc purchase receipt.

On the receipt they printed out, There's a line saying "Optima Advance", which seems suspiciously like a cash advance -- however, we'll see what AMEX does with it when they get it.

At worst I'm out a cople of buck and I should still get the Hilton points ... I think.

People have been asking for years if there was any way to buy travelers checks with a credit card. and if people knew they have been keeping it a secret.

Inconclusive discussion here in 2003...

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8290

Msg 15 was written by Ms.DtG :)

I need approximately 1800 GBP shortly after arriving in London at the end of the month. Has anyone successfully used the technique discussed in this thread to purchase traveller's cheques with their AMEX card and had it treated as a purchase for points purposes at any of the AMEX travel centers in London? If so, please disclose the details! Thanks, Casimir

Stopped in today at a mom&pop travel agency. They called AMEX for authorization. Used my Hilton Platinum AMEX. Got $500 worth of checques.

The receipt showed no fees, I entered no PIN. I signed a receipt that looks like a regular cc purchase receipt.

On the receipt they printed out, There's a line saying "Optima Advance", which seems suspiciously like a cash advance -- however, we'll see what AMEX does with it when they get it.

At worst I'm out a cople of buck and I should still get the Hilton points ... I think.

The key is that there was no cash advance fee charged for TC purchase.

I haven't done cash advance in years but IIRC fee appeared almost same time...

The key is that there was no cash advance fee charged for TC purchase.

I haven't done cash advance in years but IIRC fee appeared almost same time...So maybe I'm home free?

Just repeating for emphasis. Please, people!

peace,
~Ben~
Seoulman - Do you live in Seoul Korea? If so, have you tried the new DL flights?

So maybe I'm home free?

;)

I went today in person to the official Amex office at 55 W. Monroe in Chicago (one of two here).

No dice. They suggested I call the 800 number, which I did from their lobby, and the rep on the phone, after putting me on hold for about 6 minutes, came back to say this could not be done at any office, except as a cash advance.

So if you are getting points succcessfully, it may just be a fluke.

I am going to give this a shot today, at the local AMEX Travel office in downtown Seattle. I'll try with both SPG AMEX and the Hilton AMEX. My Hilton AMEX should be finalizing its month end bill today, so it's possible I'll see the impact/results by tomorrow. Will report what I encountered here if people promise to stop calling AMEX.

I went today in person to the official Amex office at 55 W. Monroe in Chicago (one of two here).

No dice. They suggested I call the 800 number, which I did from their lobby, and the rep on the phone, after putting me on hold for about 6 minutes, came back to say this could not be done at any office, except as a cash advance.

So if you are getting points succcessfully, it may just be a fluke.Since other reps have said otherwise, even in writing, why do you assume your rep was not misinformed?

drjh -you might want to ask your citibank branch what is needed to have the fees waived. I believe it is a minimum of 2500 at the bank in any combination of accounts. or it might be a certain kind of account. I do believe initially when I first opened my account for this purpose, that it was a $2500 minimum.

You are thinking of the fee for using a non-Citibank ATM. Yes, that is farily easy to get around with minimums. But about 6 months ago Citi started charging all customers a 1% foreign transaction fee. On all non-Citi ATMs (actually, it might even be with Citi ATMs) abroad. Give them a call.

I don't know any way around the fees though if you have a good relationship with a banker they can put it back in your account.

I went today in person to the official Amex office at 55 W. Monroe in Chicago (one of two here).

No dice. They suggested I call the 800 number, which I did from their lobby, and the rep on the phone, after putting me on hold for about 6 minutes, came back to say this could not be done at any office, except as a cash advance.

So if you are getting points succcessfully, it may just be a fluke.

The transactions are coded as cash advance. As people are suggesting, do it for a small amount if you not comfortable. Calling CSRs will only bring attention to this.

P.S. I have been given either wrong or old info by AmEx and other CSRs many times.

Since other reps have said otherwise, even in writing, why do you assume your rep was not misinformed?

Two reps at least. Phone rep (who got the info from a superior) and the rep in the Amex office.

There is also the fact that this "perk" makes absolutely no sense.

I missed the part where this was in writing.

I gave it a try Saturday at an AMEX owned office. The Rep. there didn't know how it would be charged to my cards (Hilton and SPG). The receipts said purchase. When I checked my account online today my available balance was reduced on one card but not the other and the transaction has not been posted yet for either card. It doesn't seem that there is anyway to see the available cash advance balance online.

Stopped in today at a mom&pop travel agency. They called AMEX for authorization. Used my Hilton Platinum AMEX. Got $500 worth of checques.

The receipt showed no fees, I entered no PIN. I signed a receipt that looks like a regular cc purchase receipt.

On the receipt they printed out, There's a line saying "Optima Advance", which seems suspiciously like a cash advance -- however, we'll see what AMEX does with it when they get it.

At worst I'm out a cople of buck and I should still get the Hilton points ... I think.Looked at my AMEX statement on line today. The transaction doesn't show up yet, but my available cash advance line has decreased by $500. :(

Maybe I'll call them and see if this is correct.

Advice? (other than to shut up and suck it up)

Looked at my AMEX statement on line today. The transaction doesn't show up yet, but my available cash advance line has decreased by $500. :(

Maybe I'll call them and see if this is correct.

Advice? (other than to shut up and suck it up)From the original posts, what you're seeing is correct. It comes out of the cash advance line even though it is treated as a purchase.

Looked at my AMEX statement on line today. The transaction doesn't show up yet, but my available cash advance line has decreased by $500. :(

Maybe I'll call them and see if this is correct.

Don't call them about that. Everyone seems to agree that the cash advance credit limit plays a role in these transactions (see OP). The question is, are fees/interest charged and does it earn points.

So I found myself in downtown ORD on Saturday, and managed to buy 2 x $1000 travellers check bundles with my one Starwood card (My cash advance line is > $5000)

I tried again on Monday and it wouldn't approve. According to the lady at the Amex Travel Center on Michigan Avenue, you're only supposed to be able to buy $1000 every 15 days. When I called (sorry) 1-800-AXP-1000 they said you could only do $1000 every 7 days.

So I'm not sure how come I was able to buy 2 x $1000 bundles. In any case, this seems like far far too much work for me to get 1000 SPG points.

Note: I didn't ask about getting points on the purchase, and I am posting my experiences here so that other people may decide not to call.

Don't call them about that. Everyone seems to agree that the cash advance credit limit plays a role in these transactions (see OP). The question is, are fees/interest charged and does it earn points.Fair enough.

I guess the question is, then, can I tell from my online statement whether I will be charged interest and/or whether it will be treated as a purchase?

I'm thinking it may be too soon to see (transaction on Monday: "cash advance" happens right away: gets through the system a couple of days later). I'l wait until Wednesday or Thursday and see what shows up.

Meanwhile, I have a credit limit >$10,000, but the cash advance line is only $800. If this thing works, I'll have to goose it up a bit.

In any case, this seems like far far too much work for me to get 1000 SPG points.You're correct -- depending on your geographical location, it may indeed be a lot of work.

However, if my location works out, it's very convenient -- I just signed up for the SPG card and combining the 10,000 point bonus with a few trips to the Travel store could yield me the additional 10,000 points (becoming 25,000 miles in all) that I'm going to need for a family trip next year.

So, for me, it's worth it.

YMMV, as we say around here. :)

Does anyone know where to see the cash advance balance online. I only see it on the end of the period statement but not the live online statement.

In any case, this seems like far far too much work for me to get 1000 SPG points.


I'm thinking of it as a possible 1000 SPG points and 3000 Hilton points for about the cost of one gallon of gas.

Does anyone know where to see the cash advance balance online. I only see it on the end of the period statement but not the live online statement.The only clue I had was that it listed my cash advance limit and the available balance, which in my case was exactly $500 less than the limit.

Nothing showed up (as yet) in the detail transaction listing.

You're correct -- depending on your geographical location, it may indeed be a lot of work.


I live and work in downtown ORD, so the cost to me is walking to the Travel Center (4 blocks from my office) and standing in line.

If I could do it for 5000 SPG points at a time, I'd probably make a habit of it, but 1000 is just far too little reward for the hassle.

I live and work in downtown ORD, so the cost to me is walking to the Travel Center (4 blocks from my office) and standing in line.

If I could do it for 5000 SPG points at a time, I'd probably make a habit of it, but 1000 is just far too little reward for the hassle.
1,000 Starpoints = roughly $25 in redemption value.

How long is the wait in line? :D

SPG charges $35 to BUY 1000 starpoints.

The charge for the TC doesn't seem to show up on your bill for about a week. It also seems to take 6 days for the cash advance to be available again. AGAIN, you are allowed to buy $1000 per week per account (no matter how many secondary cards exist). It comes out of the "cash advance" limit, but it isn't treated as a cash advance EXCEPT at an agency that treated it as such. In that case it took two weeks for charge to show up, it was written as emergency funds, and THAT charge did not use the cash advance limit - go figure that one.
It is NOT until you get your statement (which can be seen online within a couple of days after the close of your bill) - then it will show up as that average daily balance under cash advance. When I saw this, I did call and I was credited back. Fortunately the average balance was only $204 - because it was I had pre paid most of my bill.
The biggest thing lacking here is patience. Stop calling and getting a million explanations and wait and see how it shows up in your account. Hopefully the other people who have done this will post how it shows up in their accounts and whether or not they got points. People here seem to want to push the envelope. DON'T charge more than $1000 a week. If you are unsure and afraid, charge only $150 and wait and see. I have only done this in Oak Brook, IL where it has worked, and the one experience in a travel agency not officially AMEX where there was a problem. I have not tried downtown Chicago but am disappointed by their response. If I were downtown, I would be willing to try a $150 purchase to see what happens. Can someone else report who has made purchases to see if anyone else has had this work?
If all the calls ruin this, I will be very sorry for having shared this with you.:td: :mad: :(

I live and work in downtown ORD, so the cost to me is walking to the Travel Center (4 blocks from my office) and standing in line.

If I could do it for 5000 SPG points at a time, I'd probably make a habit of it, but 1000 is just far too little reward for the hassle.


That is why I have 4 *wood cards so each time I go get 4,000 *points.
Now I will also start doing it with Delta Amex 2,000 miles, and HHilton Amex 6,000 points.

That is why I have 4 *wood cards so each time I go get 4,000 *points.
Now I will also start doing it with Delta Amex 2,000 miles, and HHilton Amex 6,000 points.Is there a goose around here somewhere?

Let's find it and kill it and grab all them golden eggs. :(

dgordon, Thanks for the heads up. Ive been reading and keeping up with this thread. As of yet I havent jumped in but probably will do so tommorrow, no Amex Office near me but there are plenty in Manhattan a short subway ride away.

As for MOST Everyone else but the OP, Big Lar and others whose Handles I dont recall,

Theres a saying on Wall Street " The Bulls make Money, the Bears make money, but the PIGS will in the end always LOSE". Had those looking to Milk this DRY been the OP or found this out on their own, then they have a RIGHT to Milk it for all they can, BUT if You ONLY know about it due to dgordons GENEROSITY to share with Everyone, then take it easy with it as PIGGING out will cause the OP who has been so kind to lose out on it as well.

I hope my PLEA isnt in VAIN

Is there a goose around here somewhere?

Let's find it and kill it and grab all them golden eggs. :(

Exactly. Those who haven't learned from the mistakes of the past are unfortunately condemned to repeat them. Sad...:(

Seems like most of the folks who have tried this did so w/branded cards (SPG , Delta, etc).

I have 1 week left on an AMEX Green double mile promo and would like to use that one if it flies.

Seems like most of the folks who have tried this did so w/branded cards (SPG , Delta, etc).

I have 1 week left on an AMEX Green double mile promo and would like to use that one if it flies.

See thread #20 -
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7793446&postcount=20

Seems like most of the folks who have tried this did so w/branded cards (SPG , Delta, etc).

I have 1 week left on an AMEX Green double mile promo and would like to use that one if it flies.

When I purchased 4K worth of travelers checks today the CSR told me that I will not get points for it, I am assuming that he is talking about MR. I guess I will have to wait till the end of the month to see if my *points post...

Is there a goose around here somewhere?

Let's find it and kill it and grab all them golden eggs. :(

While we're at it, why don't we all call the airline while a mistake fare is in play? (A little OT I know but still a related peeve of mine)

That is why I have 4 *wood cards so each time I go get 4,000 *points.
Now I will also start doing it with Delta Amex 2,000 miles, and HHilton Amex 6,000 points.

I think WE out did You and then ourselves.

WE all (25) took the plunge today and met at a Mid-Town NYC office. The line was bad enough w/o all 25 family members showing up, I think each of us presenting 4 different cards each and asking the same questions over and over set off the 1st alarms.

Bringing along a blanket and a Keg of Ice Cold Beer and 3 coolers with sandwichs etc and spreading it out mid floor really got them yelling at Us but we werent gonna let that stop Us from having a great outing and racking up the SPG & HH pts.

what finally set them wild was when I started asking anyone who wanted to enter if they were looking to purchase TCs as it would take hours with till all 25 of Us were finished, so I came up with a Brainstorm, why not sell them the TCs I just got since I was gonna deposit them into my bank acct anyway, so I started asking and told everyone that I wouldnt charge them even 1 cent in fees. This way I get to dump some of the TCs, I dont have to fill them out and they save the fee and their time waiting to buy them.

The worst part was my Stupid Younger brother had to go brag to the cute girl clerk that he wanted to pick-up how smart we were for we getting free hotel nights and a float while it sat in our bank accts, till we had to pay it off. Turns out she was married and called some higher ups to gain some Brownie pts and told them what my brother told her. Im piffed at him that was a great idea I had selling the TCs right there to that captive audience and thusly having the TCs spread all over the place.

Moral of the story watch out for Younger bros who are still into picking up chics. Next time We decided we arent taking Him alone hes gonna ruin it for everyone.

I think WE out did You and then ourselves.

WE all (25) took the plunge today and met at a Mid-Town NYC office. The line was bad enough w/o all 25 family members showing up, I think each of us presenting 4 different cards each and asking the same questions over and over set off the 1st alarms.

Hey, why wasn't I invited?!?! I work and go to the Amex office in Midtown!!


Moral of the story watch out for Younger bros who are still into picking up chics. Next time We decided we aren't taking Him alone hes gonna ruin it for everyone.

I don't know why you stress the fact of younger bros, guys will always be guys...

I think WE out did You and then ourselves.

WE all (25) took the plunge today and met at a Mid-Town NYC office. The line was bad enough w/o all 25 family members showing up, I think each of us presenting 4 different cards each and asking the same questions over and over set off the 1st alarms.

Bringing along a blanket and a Keg of Ice Cold Beer and 3 coolers with sandwichs etc and spreading it out mid floor really got them yelling at Us but we werent gonna let that stop Us from having a great outing and racking up the SPG & HH pts.

what finally set them wild was when I started asking anyone who wanted to enter if they were looking to purchase TCs as it would take hours with till all 25 of Us were finished, so I came up with a Brainstorm, why not sell them the TCs I just got since I was gonna deposit them into my bank acct anyway, so I started asking and told everyone that I wouldnt charge them even 1 cent in fees. This way I get to dump some of the TCs, I dont have to fill them out and they save the fee and their time waiting to buy them.

The worst part was my Stupid Younger brother had to go brag to the cute girl clerk that he wanted to pick-up how smart we were for we getting free hotel nights and a float while it sat in our bank accts, till we had to pay it off. Turns out she was married and called some higher ups to gain some Brownie pts and told them what my brother told her. Im piffed at him that was a great idea I had selling the TCs right there to that captive audience and thusly having the TCs spread all over the place.

Moral of the story watch out for Younger bros who are still into picking up chics. Next time We decided we arent taking Him alone hes gonna ruin it for everyone.

by the time you got home a fedex letter (same day delivery, not overnight :) ) was sitting by your door saying your accounts were frozen for FR. also any Amex member worldwide whos last name is also CRAZ will be getting the same letter sent to them :cool:

Maybe you could use your TC's for your bail:)

good thing I got my $2000 in TCs as I have an upcoming trip the end of this week for a few days.

Even better that Im top tier with Hilton,Marriott, and SPG as a benefit is being able to get Checks or in this case TCs cashed. MR has it as $500 per day so a 2 night stay = 3days = $1500 being able to be Cashed out, this way I dont need to bother with a Bank and it gets spread out in 2 States in which I dont live. Besides it will show up as if I paid my bill with them, since the Hotel will be putting it into their acct. Hint,Hint

I assume its the same, but has anyone had experience doing this with a Cent card? Also, anyway been successful with 2000 per week?

Thanks

If You Have 2 Cards, You Can Do $1000 Per Card Per Week.

duplicate:eek:

Try not to abuse this as they may take it away.


Why has this been a secret?

Try not to abuse this as they may take it away.

Good advice Dgordon. I guess not all heeded it.

Why has this been a secret?

well now you know why.

yes, I am beginning to see. What a shame. Greed will kill the golden calf. There are limits and there is no reason to push the envelope. :( :td:

yes, I am beginning to see. What a shame. Greed will kill the golden calf. There are limits and there is no reason to push the envelope. :( :td:


If you have questions on this and if you will be charged anything, just forget that you ever read this thread!

Otherwise do it as if You have done it a thousand times already. Walk into an "Amex Office' wait on line give the teller/clerk your Amex card/s and ask for the TCs, say no more ask NOTHING about Nothing. If you cant do this then Dont go and buy anything. The more attention you draw to yourself the greater the chances that you wont have to worry about being able to continue doing it., as the Golden Goose will have been killed.

Still not sure then do it one time and wait till it hits your acct and see if you were charged anything, if you were Im 1000% sure that Amex will refund it as they were the sellers and said it was suppose to be Fee Free.

Think of it like an error in fare, the more questions you ask the greater the chance that it will be taken down. Can you upgrade with miles , will there be a fee for changing the flights etc etc, is all best dealing with ONLY after the fare has been pulled, asking everything before that simply will alert more people at the Carrier about the Error in fares! So too with Amex either play it and wait or dont play it, but the 1 thing that will close it is asking questions and especially to the low level clerks who usually dont have the correct answers anyway!!

This is my first post in this thread.

I knew about this opportunity long ago. Part of me was sad to see it get posted here; part of me happy to see information shared. The problem is this opportunity will go away much sooner now.

Not just because it was posted. But because of the way less considerate/savvy FTers will go about this.

When it comes to this sort of opportunity, I will test first, NOT ASK QUESTIONS. I am willing to loose $5 here and there in order to find ways to earn lots of miles at a low cost. The more calls Amex gets asking about miles earning on these transactions the less likely miles will still be earned on these in a year from now in the same way they are today.

The smart way to go about something like this is to walk into a center, use no more than 2 or 3 cards max, not bring more than one other person with you doing the same thing, not make calls to Amex asking about miles earning this way, not ask questions of the local rep and WAIT and see if it works. If it works, repeat every week. Quietly.

It is a shame how threads like this discourage people like me who want to share but also want the goose to live. We are torn: share and kill the goose or not share in the most visible FT forum and let live? We often don't share to preserve the life of the goose. Does the goose live on when not killed by people doing as they report in this thread? Yes, usually for many years.

How then can we share? Through FT events and personal contact with FT friends. Hopefully sharing this way we can also instill in the recipients a respect for our knowledge of the system and a desire to carry out miles earning quietly. I encourage all to check out the FT community forum and get involved.

It's funny how this thread has come full circle. Now can we delete it? :)

I went to my local AMEX travel center today - when I asked, the lady behind the counter told me that purchases of travelers' checks were now officially counted as cash advances and would not accrue MR points. She told me some "crazy people on the internet have been scamming American Express, and there was a policy change implemented last week to stop it."

I guess it was fun while it lasted. :(

Not just because it was posted. But because of the way less considerate/savvy FTers will go about this.


My first post here too...

I didn't partake in this, but was AMAZED at some of the posts and at the way some "less considerate/savvy" FTers went about this...couldn't believe what I was reading!

...definitely will continue to network through FT events and personal contact with FT friends!

I believe MR AMEX never got points according to their terms and conditions. This looks like my decision to share will be regretted.

I went to my local AMEX travel center today - when I asked, the lady behind the counter told me that purchases of travelers' checks were now officially counted as cash advances and would not accrue MR points. She told me some "crazy people on the internet have been scamming American Express, and there was a policy change implemented last week to stop it."

I guess it was fun while it lasted. :(


I dont know if I should thank you for the heads up or say Thanks to those like You who killed this.

Why did you have to ask anything? Everyone said to simply go in and buy them , also I guess you need to learn to read English , since the OP as well as others on almost every page of this thread said the Amex SPG or Hilton cards and NOT the reg Amex charge cards.

but people like You just have to MESS things up and blow hot air out of your mouths.

I thought the person who wanted this thread Deleted a few pages back wasnt fair to all others since they only wanted it to be Deleted once they found out about it.

Now Im Sorry to say, I wish it was DELETED, true I wouldnt have gotten in on it the 1 time last week, but at least the OP still would have been able to reap it for awhile longer before, all the Beautiful People MESSED it up for Her.

the saying still lives on, The Pigs will always Lose and cause others to lose as well. I didnt check but I wouldnt be surprised to see this on slickdeals or fatwallet.

But lastly THANKS cause I Promise if and when I should find something ,I Will Not post it on FT least people like You Kill it for Me.

I went to my local AMEX travel center today - when I asked, the lady behind the counter told me that purchases of travelers' checks were now officially counted as cash advances and would not accrue MR points. She told me some "crazy people on the internet have been scamming American Express, and there was a policy change implemented last week to stop it."

I guess it was fun while it lasted. :(So ... who in their right mind would take out a cash advance to buy traveller's checks?

Won't this sort of kill that business for AMEX?

So ... who in their right mind would take out a cash advance to buy traveller's checks?

Won't this sort of kill that business for AMEX?


Not at all, when I was waiting in line last week, many a person purchased them with CASH, or AMEXgets to do what most people here wanted to do "Play with the float , as they have the $$$ that can go to work as they wont have to pay any one for the TCs till they are presented to them for payment.

The woman before not a US citizen (she gave her passport as her ID) used a CC from wherever she was from or at least wanted to, then alot of banks sell these TCs as well, so Amexwill still make their $$, only we wont make our Miles/Pts

I dont know if I should thank you for the heads up or say Thanks to those like You who killed this.

But lastly THANKS cause I Promise if and when I should find something ,I Will Not post it on FT least people like You Kill it for Me.

I think WE out did You and then ourselves.

WE all (25) took the plunge today and met at a Mid-Town NYC office. The line was bad enough w/o all 25 family members showing up, I think each of us presenting 4 different cards each and asking the same questions over and over set off the 1st alarms.

Bringing along a blanket and a Keg of Ice Cold Beer and 3 coolers with sandwichs etc and spreading it out mid floor really got them yelling at Us but we werent gonna let that stop Us from having a great outing and racking up the SPG & HH pts.

what finally set them wild was when I started asking anyone who wanted to enter if they were looking to purchase TCs as it would take hours with till all 25 of Us were finished, so I came up with a Brainstorm, why not sell them the TCs I just got since I was gonna deposit them into my bank acct anyway, so I started asking and told everyone that I wouldnt charge them even 1 cent in fees. This way I get to dump some of the TCs, I dont have to fill them out and they save the fee and their time waiting to buy them.

The worst part was my Stupid Younger brother had to go brag to the cute girl clerk that he wanted to pick-up how smart we were for we getting free hotel nights and a float while it sat in our bank accts, till we had to pay it off. Turns out she was married and called some higher ups to gain some Brownie pts and told them what my brother told her. Im piffed at him that was a great idea I had selling the TCs right there to that captive audience and thusly having the TCs spread all over the place.

Moral of the story watch out for Younger bros who are still into picking up chics. Next time We decided we arent taking Him alone hes gonna ruin it for everyone.

Are you serious? Do you want to re-read what you had posted earlier about taking 25 people into an AMEX travel office, asking the same questions over and over again, and having your brother spill the beans? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Are you serious? Do you want to re-read what you had posted earlier about taking 25 people into an AMEX travel office....

The post about 25 people was a joke, a parody of what might occur if people did not exercise restraint.

Are you serious? Do you want to re-read what you had posted earlier about taking 25 people into an AMEX travel office, asking the same questions over and over again, and having your brother spill the beans? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

OMG it was a (very obvious) joke. Geez.

OMG it was a (very obvious) joke. Geez.

Yea I was joking OMG Id never would have thought anyone would have believe that there were 50 of Us, so i said 25:rolleyes:

Not just because it was posted. But because of the way less considerate/savvy FTers will go about this.

When it comes to this sort of opportunity, I will test first, NOT ASK QUESTIONS. I am willing to loose $5 here and there in order to find ways to earn lots of miles at a low cost. The more calls Amex gets asking about miles earning on these transactions the less likely miles will still be earned on these in a year from now in the same way they are today.

The smart way to go about something like this is to walk into a center, use no more than 2 or 3 cards max, not bring more than one other person with you doing the same thing, not make calls to Amex asking about miles earning this way, not ask questions of the local rep and WAIT and see if it works. If it works, repeat every week. Quietly.

It is a shame how threads like this discourage people like me who want to share but also want the goose to live. We are torn: share and kill the goose or not share in the most visible FT forum and let live? We often don't share to preserve the life of the goose. Does the goose live on when not killed by people doing as they report in this thread? Yes, usually for many years.

How then can we share? Through FT events and personal contact with FT friends. Hopefully sharing this way we can also instill in the recipients a respect for our knowledge of the system and a desire to carry out miles earning quietly. I encourage all to check out the FT community forum and get involved.

did as you and the OP suggested. I walked into an AMEX owned center in NYC and bought my TCs and asked no questions about fees or miles or anything else.

I too was willing to gamble a little of my time and any possible fee to see the results for myself.

What I can't understand is how on this or ?able fare issues, any FTer thinks the CSR knows the true answer and moreover that any FTer would be able to use any answer given over the phone as support for a claim to TPTB. :confused:

THANKS AGAIN to the OP, you and the rest who share.

Know that there are at least some FTers who follow the spirit of the site and respect the info and alerts given. Hopefully, there are fewer spoilers than some of these threads tend to indicate.

Still, your point is well taken. I'm now off to find my 2nd DO to attend.....

Greed will kill the golden calf. :( :td:

Based on my thorough research in the archives of veterinary medical journals, greed has NEVER killed any golden calves. But there are several hundred cases on file of greed killing geese thay lay golden eggs.:p

Are you serious? Do you want to re-read what you had posted earlier about taking 25 people into an AMEX travel office, asking the same questions over and over again, and having your brother spill the beans? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Anyone who thought the post about taking 25 family members into an Amex office to buy TCs was serious should be permanently banned from FT.... :rolleyes:

Hey! That was a JOKE!!! Just kidding. :eek: :p ;)

OK, so both the golden calf and the golden geese will get killed. All the gold is out the window. No good deed goes unpunished.:D

OK, so both the golden calf and the golden geese will get killed. All the gold is out the window. No good deed goes unpunished.:D
This is so sad. What a wonderful thing she did to share. And now to have it messed up by not just one or two but by so many is disheartening to this new FT member. How will anyone ever decide to share info when they are just shooting themselves in the foot if they do? Wish I knew folks personally so that I would be on the "share list". Alas.

I can confirm that whatever OP experienced as successful attempts to get AMEX points from purchasing T/C cannot be successfully replicated on my side here. No points were earned on those purchases and finance charge starts to cumulate as soon as it registered.

This does not mean it is not possible to be successful somewhere else on another occasion. All I can conclude is there is a fair amount of fluke and local circumstances involved and should be not considered a reliable or predictable way of earning AMEX points.

Those purchases were treated as "Emegency Funds".

Just want to let people know so that if you do want to try this, beware that it is very likey you will not be successful.

OK, so both the golden calf and the golden geese will get killed. All the gold is out the window. No good deed goes unpunished.:D

I hate to say this but I don't think there was any secret per say to begin with. First of all, you being successful at earning AMEX points through T/C purchases doesn't mean that is the norm elsewhere. After all, it's pretty clearly stated in the T&C of AMEX cards that points won't be earned on cash advances or T/C purchases. Being at the right spot, at the right time coupling with a few Travel centers staff who don't know what they are doing may in fact lead to points being credited to T/C purchases. But if the people who processed for you actually followed the procedures by calling AMEX to pre-book / confirm your credit and etc., it is highly unlikely what you experienced would be the norm.

Besides, like others have mentioned, the time cost should be considered and the laborious steps that one must goes through is quite daunting. I wouldn't do this even if I can actually earn points now that I tried this once. It takes about 2 hours of my time factoring the various steps involved for so little points. But thanks for sharing your success. Hopefully, others have better luck.