Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Question on "C" class (business)

I'm planning a trip to Europe in Jan/04 (YVR to FCO via FRA) and was planning to use LH, business class. As you can tell from my sig, I'm an AC FF.

The reason for choosing LH over AC was that LH would be using their new A340's by then and I'm assuming that means your own personal entertainment tv. AC (through other routing) shows using 767's which don't have personal entertainment tv's in business (personal experience).

However, I'm starting to hear that "C" class (business) in LH isn't very good at all and that AC business is actually better.

Does anyone have personal experience with both AC and LH business class?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Braindrain:
However, I'm starting to hear that "C" class (business) in LH isn't very good at all and that AC business is actually better.
</font>

Not usre what you mean by "isn't very good"... LH's business-class product as it is currently is average compared to competitors over the Atlantic. It has personal video in every seat, decent food- and drink selection and consistent service as far as my experience goes. It's not hit-or-miss like some North American carriers provide. Seats are OK but pitch is slightly below the market-leaders.

However when you fly FRA-YVR in 2004 (after Feb. 8th) you will get the new LH business-cabin, and from what I heard about it, it will bring LH back to the top of that market. And you will fly in a brand new A346 aircraft, too, not one of those old 767...

My choice would be pretty obvious...

Greetings - Dirk

I flew from YVR to FRA in LH Business class last new years as a result of a major foul up with my economy ticket on LH's part. It was my first time in business and i thought it was great. I admit I have nothing to compare it to but when you're used to being in cattle class it is superb! Seats were comfortable, food was excellent and the IFE on the personal screen was good. I was also impressed by the service. I am flying KLM business to Los Angeles next week, so it will be interesting to compare the two products.

Whist I don't know what aircraft/configuration will be used in early 2004 (whatever is showing now can quite easily get changed anyway) I can strongly recommend LH's business class.

Service and food is very good, aircraft and interiors are well-maintained and clean and seats are comfortable with IFE etc.

Now, the seats are not as big as some of the competition, and pitch and recline might be a tad smaller, but the overall package - the big picture - is a very positive one.

Whilst the seats on the 330s and 340s are improved, AC's business class seats in 767 are a complete disaster. They are old and worn out, many still have the older, small personal TVs that are falling to bits. The food is nowhere near as good as what you get on LH.

Try it and see.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Braindrain:
AC (through other routing) shows using 767's which don't have personal entertainment tv's in business (personal experience).</font>

Not so. They all have personal TVs, most just have old, small ones.

Thanks for all the responses! I have flown AC business quite extensively but what interests me is flying on new LH metal (A340) and seeing how good it will be.

LondonElite, my experience with 767 business has mainly been domestic. In those, there aren't any personal tv's and the seats are definitely worn. Maybe it's different for trans-atlantic 767's? However, when I do trans-pacific business, AC has always flown me in A340's and I've been quite happy in those.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Braindrain:
my experience with 767 business has mainly been domestic. In those, there aren't any personal tv's and the seats are definitely worn. Maybe it's different for trans-atlantic 767's?</font>

Internationally configured 767s have Executive First seats (2-2-1) and personal TVs. Some planes have had their IFE upgraded to a larger screen, but many still have the old ones with TVs the side of a business card. The seats are quite worn.

Domestic 767s have Executive seat configured (2-2-2).

I fly Toronto - Europe quite a bit and often via FRA. Personally, for seat comfort and seat pitch, I prefer AC business class (especially the newly reconfigured ones) over LH business class for now. For the food and service, LH is better and is more consistent, even though AC's international meal service in business class has improved quite a bit. So it comes down to personal choice, but in any case, both airlines have good products.

I am looking forward to the LH "new business class." From what I have been hearing, it should be great.

Have a great flight.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LH-AC:

I am looking forward to the LH "new business class." From what I have been hearing, it should be great.
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Yes, I'm hoping that's with the introduction of the new A340's.

And... thanks!

If you can guarantee the opportunity to fly LH's A340-600 YVR-FRA, I'd go for it.

Otherwise, Air Canada shouldn't be half bad. No matter what, you'll have a personal video system (AVOD on A330s & select-A340s, PTVs on 767-300s & other A340s, and DVD players on ex-Canadian 767-300s). Also, all Air Canada flights to Frankfurt are featuring the new ExecutiveFirst service (improved menus, blankets/pillows, amenity kit), which is supposed to be quite good!

Derek

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LondonElite:
Internationally configured 767s have Executive First seats (2-2-1) and personal TVs. Some planes have had their IFE upgraded to a larger screen, but many still have the old ones with TVs the side of a business card. The seats are quite worn.
(2-2-2).</font>

Well I flew with AC last year from ZRH to YYZ some time ago with AC and we didn't have PTV's in Executive First. It was an old CP plane and, quite frankly, it was falling apart (well, looked like it anyhow). Before AC merged with CP I thought that AC Executive First was the best, now that there is a risk of old CP metal (and it has happened to me too often, I steer clear...

If you compare LH C with old CP metal C, I would take LH. If you compare LH C with true AC C, I would take AC.

Why not try BA with New Club World (NCW) if you are connecting to FCO anyhow. The seats are truly flat and about 185cm seat pitch; it is like a short and narrow bed. If you get upper cabin in the 744, there are only 20 seats, 4 more than in LH´s F product and I think it is excellent value for money.