American Express Membership Rewards - Shell stations in NV, AR, and TN will temporarily stop accepting American Express

Some Shell stations, the number one selling brand of gasoline in the U.S., stopped accepting AmEx on 2 APR 2007.

"Shell-branded sites in Las Vegas, NV, Little Rock, AR and Knoxville, TN will temporarily stop accepting American Express to help to raise consumer awareness about merchant service fees, which increase operating costs. The Shell-branded wholesalers – independent business people -- that own and operate a total of 200 Shell-branded gasoline stations in three different areas of the country are conducting a short-term credit card acceptance pilot to explore ways to reduce merchant service fees."

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=us-en&FC2=/us-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/payments/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/us-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/payments/payments_amex.html

Some Shell stations, the number one selling brand of gasoline in the U.S., stopped accepting AmEx on 2 APR 2007.

"Shell-branded sites in Las Vegas, NV, Little Rock, AR and Knoxville, TN will temporarily stop accepting American Express to help to raise consumer awareness about merchant service fees, which increase operating costs. The Shell-branded wholesalers – independent business people -- that own and operate a total of 200 Shell-branded gasoline stations in three different areas of the country are conducting a short-term credit card acceptance pilot to explore ways to reduce merchant service fees."

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=us-en&FC2=/us-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/payments/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/us-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/payments/payments_amex.html


Good for them. They are totally ripped off by AMEX. Other cards do not charge nearly as much. I am not a huge fan of Shell, but somebody needs to let consumers know that their transactions are not free. Maybe then the companies will become more resonable about their charges.

this is retarded. i'll be sure to always avoid shell stations. quite retarded to force your customer base to use specific cards.

this is retarded. i'll be sure to always avoid shell stations. quite retarded to force your customer base to use specific cards.

Yes but I do not think most people know how much more AMEX charges for your transactions.

Yes but I do not think most people know how much more AMEX charges for your transactions.

Agreed. Merchants are doing you a favor by accepting credit cards. Every transaction they accept from you costs them money. Amex is notorious for charging higher transaction fees than Visa or MC. (Ever wonder why Amex isn't as widely accepted as the other 2?) Eventually, you can bet that these fees are passed on to the consumer. Think of it along the lines of a tax.

A decision to stop accepting cards that hurt profitability is not at all "retarded". I don't like it, but can't fault Shell for their stance on this.

Currently, American Express' average US merchant rate is about 2.3%, while the average Visa/MasterCard credit card US merchant rate is about 1.9% (Visa/MasterCard signature debit cards are at 1.7%). Some merchant sectors, such as quick-service restaurants including McDonald's, have special reduced rates to accommodate business needs and profit margins.

Interestingly enough, American Express offers further reduced merchant fees to merchants who accept American Express exclusively.

I understand the CC companies making money. That is how the economy runs. But they make money on so many ends of the transaction, it makes you wonder.

I'm very aware of the AmEx high merchant fees. Visa Signature and Mastercard World merchant fees are also high. If you don't like them, don't use them. I don't use Shell.

A decision to stop accepting cards that hurt profitability is not at all "retarded". I don't like it, but can't fault Shell for their stance on this.
My employer insists I used my Amex Corporate Card for travel and entertainment expenses. If a merchant doesn't accept Amex I think I can pay with an alternate method and claim back but it's a really big hassle by comparison with using the Corporate Card.

So I would guess that I and anyone else who works for my (Fortune 50) employer is going to drive on past and look for the next gas station rather than shop with Shell.

The relationship between credit card companies (particularly Amex, which exerts a near-strangehold on the corporate T&E market) and retailers is not nearly as one sided as you suggest: the retailers certainly do gain important benefits from accepting cards.

In Finland Shell is actually one of the most expensive fuel stations ... I think they can afford to pay the merchant fees. And according to some rumors, in Finland the most expensive merchant fee is actually DC.

I expect all the big companies/chains to accept Amex and if they do not have enough revenue to accept it then they should just drop it and accept that they may lose some customers who prefer Amex.

In Finland, it would ridiculous if Shell wouldn't accept the Amex as even some really small companies are accepting it without any kind of problem or complains (cafes, small pubs and taxis for example).

200 stations will do nothing to AMEX... Now if all Shell statsions across America stopped accepting AMEX untill they matched VISA/MC's fees, I bet AMEX would work out a deal with them.

Those stations have the right to accept or do not accept specific credit cards Amex, MC or Visa. I think it is ridiculous on the part of those Shell sations to just temporary not accept Amex. My point is if they are not happy with Amex, just drop Amex completely and not temporary. That way I would just take my business elsewhere.

"American Express, don't leave home without it!"

Agreed. Merchants are doing you a favor by accepting credit cards. Every transaction they accept from you costs them money. Amex is notorious for charging higher transaction fees than Visa or MC. (Ever wonder why Amex isn't as widely accepted as the other 2?) Eventually, you can bet that these fees are passed on to the consumer. Think of it along the lines of a tax.

A decision to stop accepting cards that hurt profitability is not at all "retarded". I don't like it, but can't fault Shell for their stance on this.

They are def not doing me a "favor" by accepting amex. If they dont accept it i dont shop there. I have walked out of stores many times including for larges purchases where they don't take amex.

Agreed. Merchants are doing you a favor by accepting credit cards. Every transaction they accept from you costs them money.
They're doing us a "favor" by allowing us to contribute to their bottom line?? Sure, there is a transaction cost with every transaction, but it's lower than their markup on the sale, or they wouldn't be doing the transaction in the first place.

I think you've got the whole system backwards here. Customers are doing businesses a favor by buying their goods and services.

They're doing us a "favor" by allowing us to contribute to their bottom line?? Sure, there is a transaction cost with every transaction, but it's lower than their markup on the sale, or they wouldn't be doing the transaction in the first place.

I think you've got the whole system backwards here. Customers are doing businesses a favor by buying their goods and services.

I completely agree with you Doppy.

They are def not doing me a "favor" by accepting amex. If they dont accept it i dont shop there. I have walked out of stores many times including for larges purchases where they don't take amex.

I dont think Shell cares if you go down the street, what there saying is "your not getting that horrible high fee from us"

ya, go down to fufu down the road, whom probably dont pay the fee anyways cause Amex has some contract with illegals :p

If Shell cannot use their global position and size in the negotiations with Amex while some other companies are able to use it then it is just a lack of competence in Shell side.

Amex does charge retailers about 1% more than Visa/MasterCard & usually Discover. For many businesses that can be a big number that does have an impact on the prices we pay, like every other expense. Why shouldn't we care? Too many people who tender Amex seem to be a bit insensitive and arrogant about this. Do you want to pay 1% more for everything you buy and pay including your taxes? If you make & spend 100K that's $1,000 per year, maybe twice once in spending and once in taxes. If $1,000 does not matter to you, send it along, I provide a way to send that amount along to me, I could use it.

Amex does charge retailers about 1% more than Visa/MasterCard & usually Discover. For many businesses that can be a big number that does have an impact on the prices we pay, like every other expense. Why shouldn't we care? Too many people who tender Amex seem to be a bit insensitive and arrogant about this. Do you want to pay 1% more for everything you buy and pay including your taxes? If you make & spend 100K that's $1,000 per year, maybe twice once in spending and once in taxes. If $1,000 does not matter to you, send it along, I provide a way to send that amount along to me, I could use it.

Amex does charge retailers about 1% more than Visa/MasterCard & usually Discover. For many businesses that can be a big number that does have an impact on the prices we pay, like every other expense. Why shouldn't we care? Too many people who tender Amex seem to be a bit insensitive and arrogant about this. Do you want to pay 1% more for everything you buy and pay including your taxes? If you make & spend 100K that's $1,000 per year, maybe twice once in spending and once in taxes. If $1,000 does not matter to you, send it along, I provide a way to send that amount along to me, I could use it.

You act like you should be receiving the fees back, but you don't realize that Amex does exactly that, in fact, and that's why I use them. The annual fee on most amex cards does not cover the total amount of the benefits you receive with that card...the majority of Amex's revenue comes from merchant fees.

So, this isn't $1000 out of "your" pocket that someone is "taking", rather, it is their way of subsidizing the benefits you receive on their card. I pay $450/yr and so far this year have saved $240 on airfare, and plan on doing it several more times. Before I upgraded to platinum, back in January, I had a warranty claim on my Green charge that Amex paid $280 on to fix a digital camera that broke after the expiration of Canon's warranty. After upgrading to Plat, I cancelled AAA saving myself $87/yr, since the same benefit is included free of charge with the Plat card.

So, Amex has given me back $650 or so on an annual fee of $450, and I will continue getting benefits like that for the remainder of the year, as will every other Plat Card holder. The fees on Amex cards don't cover what benefits the cards provide, if you actually use them...the MERCHANT FEES are what subsidize that...

The money isn't disappearing, and you ARE in fact getting it back.
Basically, the guy at the gas station is just subsidizing your CrownRoom access, rental car insurance, baggage insurance, free companion tickets, etc, etc...which I think is absolutely peachy!

You act like you should be receiving the fees back, but you don't realize that Amex does exactly that, in fact, and that's why I use them. The annual fee on most amex cards does not cover the total amount of the benefits you receive with that card...the majority of Amex's revenue comes from merchant fees.

So, this isn't $1000 out of "your" pocket that someone is "taking", rather, it is their way of subsidizing the benefits you receive on their card. I pay $450/yr and so far this year have saved $240 on airfare, and plan on doing it several more times. Before I upgraded to platinum, back in January, I had a warranty claim on my Green charge that Amex paid $280 on to fix a digital camera that broke after the expiration of Canon's warranty. After upgrading to Plat, I cancelled AAA saving myself $87/yr, since the same benefit is included free of charge with the Plat card.

So, Amex has given me back $650 or so on an annual fee of $450, and I will continue getting benefits like that for the remainder of the year, as will every other Plat Card holder. The fees on Amex cards don't cover what benefits the cards provide, if you actually use them...the MERCHANT FEES are what subsidize that...

The money isn't disappearing, and you ARE in fact getting it back.
Basically, the guy at the gas station is just subsidizing your CrownRoom access, rental car insurance, baggage insurance, free companion tickets, etc, etc...which I think is absolutely peachy!

What? Lets here it for income redistribution! I can't believe I just read this especially on this forum.

You act like you should be receiving the fees back, but you don't realize that Amex does exactly that, in fact, and that's why I use them. The annual fee on most amex cards does not cover the total amount of the benefits you receive with that card...the majority of Amex's revenue comes from merchant fees.

So, this isn't $1000 out of "your" pocket that someone is "taking", rather, it is their way of subsidizing the benefits you receive on their card. I pay $450/yr and so far this year have saved $240 on airfare, and plan on doing it several more times. Before I upgraded to platinum, back in January, I had a warranty claim on my Green charge that Amex paid $280 on to fix a digital camera that broke after the expiration of Canon's warranty. After upgrading to Plat, I cancelled AAA saving myself $87/yr, since the same benefit is included free of charge with the Plat card.

So, Amex has given me back $650 or so on an annual fee of $450, and I will continue getting benefits like that for the remainder of the year, as will every other Plat Card holder. The fees on Amex cards don't cover what benefits the cards provide, if you actually use them...the MERCHANT FEES are what subsidize that...

The money isn't disappearing, and you ARE in fact getting it back.
Basically, the guy at the gas station is just subsidizing your CrownRoom access, rental car insurance, baggage insurance, free companion tickets, etc, etc...which I think is absolutely peachy!

I agree with your statement, but i guess everyone has to make a decission whether they actually utilize these benefits (especially for lower tier cards, ie green/gold)

Also: I feel the customer service at AMEX is much more superior to VISA/Mastercard and promos come in much more frequently.

They are def not doing me a "favor" by accepting amex. If they dont accept it i dont shop there. I have walked out of stores many times including for larges purchases where they don't take amex.


If Shell chooses not to accept Amex,that is certainly their right-but if I encounter a location that has this restriction-the sale will go to the competitor.

I think Shell is gambling that customers will simply pull out another card rather than go elsewhere.

If you are really married to Shell,purchase a gift card at a supermarket and pay with Amex.

What? Lets here it for income redistribution! I can't believe I just read this especially on this forum.

Huh? Thats what capitalism is...the redistribution of wealth to those businesses and people lucky or intelligent enough to snag more of it than the next guy...

Every rewards card (except the bad ones nobody gets) basically offer you benefits far exceeding the cost you pay for them, and then subsidize that process by making merchants pay for the privilege of having you spend your money there. It's not just Amex, that's the way the ENTIRE system works. Amex charges more, because Amex has the most benefits.

It's silly not to take advantage of it.

I guess you could always move to Cuba...or China...if you're into the communism thing...oh wait...they have Amex too...

:D :D :D :D

They're doing us a "favor" by allowing us to contribute to their bottom line?? Sure, there is a transaction cost with every transaction, but it's lower than their markup on the sale, or they wouldn't be doing the transaction in the first place.

I think you've got the whole system backwards here. Customers are doing businesses a favor by buying their goods and services.

I am an American Expat. I can see how an American would view this situation in this light. Now that I live in Europe, however, I can appreciate a different point of view (not that I agree with it). It's not a "wild" idea for merchants in Europe to charge a "transaction fee" for credit card transactions. (Or, a "discount" if you pay cash), which essentially passes the additional fee burden to the consumer.

I am an American Expat. I can see how an American would view this situation in this light. Now that I live in Europe, however, I can appreciate a different point of view (not that I agree with it). It's not a "wild" idea for merchants in Europe to charge a "transaction fee" for credit card transactions. (Or, a "discount" if you pay cash), which essentially passes the additional fee burden to the consumer.

I always wondered about that? Doesnt the agreement between amex and the merchant prohibit these transaction fees that are being charged from the customer?

I always wondered about that? Doesnt the agreement between amex and the merchant prohibit these transaction fees that are being charged from the customer?

Ya, you're right...

Charging additional fees to use a credit card is a big no-no under the issuers' merchant agreements...at least here in the US.

They have provisions in their contracts that allow them to fine merchants, or close their accounts, if they are found to be doing that. The three major issuers (V/MC/Amex) all have 1-800 numbers you can call to report merchants doing that type of thing.

I am not sure how it works in other countries.

Ya, you're right...

Charging additional fees to use a credit card is a big no-no under the issuers' merchant agreements...at least here in the US.

They have provisions in their contracts that allow them to fine merchants, or close their accounts, if they are found to be doing that. The three major issuers (V/MC/Amex) all have 1-800 numbers you can call to report merchants doing that type of thing.

I am not sure how it works in other countries.


Thats a good thing to know! Thanks for the response.

Agreed. Merchants are doing you a favor by accepting credit cards. Every transaction they accept from you costs them money. Amex is notorious for charging higher transaction fees than Visa or MC. (Ever wonder why Amex isn't as widely accepted as the other 2?) Eventually, you can bet that these fees are passed on to the consumer. Think of it along the lines of a tax.

A decision to stop accepting cards that hurt profitability is not at all "retarded". I don't like it, but can't fault Shell for their stance on this.

a favor by accepting credit cards?

hardly... most merchants would rather deal with the discount rate than deal with huge amounts of cash which has to be counted, transported and is subject to theft etc. And dont even think about checks, which have a huge fraud risk etc.

Amex charges more, sure, and it is every merchants decision to accept it or not. Merchants accept it because of the demographics of the card holders--average income is like 2x or something that of MC and VI

I always wondered about that? Doesnt the agreement between amex and the merchant prohibit these transaction fees that are being charged from the customer?

In the US you're right, in Europe you're not. Several years ago the same rule applied in Europe, but unfortunately (for us) this has changed. The only restriction is that, when you -as reseller- want to add a fee for using a credit- or chargecard, you have to that for all in the same way.

For example, it is not allowed to ask 1% for Visa, 2% for MC and 3% for Amex, this has to be the same for all cards. Ofcourse there may be -and will be- difference between debit and creditcards.

In most occasions this happens I go -when available- to the competitor. If not -sadly- I use one of my debitcards.

I do have to hope this doesn't expand in the next few weeks. I have been driving from Lakeland, TN, to Mountain Home, AR, every Monday/returning on Friday or Saturday, since early March; my son has been in ICU with terrible pneumonia. As a 60+ female driver, I have my preferred stops for gasoline, clean restrooms, etc; one of those is a Shell station in Hardy, AR. I'm sure there is another station close that would accept my Amex, or I do have a Visa in my wallet. But that would be outside my present "comfort zone", and I need all the "comfort" I can get right now.

He's getting better, and I won't need that "comfort zone" much longer.

ETA: Thank goodness I could edit this, I worded the deleted sentence badly.

If Shell cannot use their global position and size in the negotiations with Amex while some other companies are able to use it then it is just a lack of competence in Shell side.

I'm sure this whole thing is part of a negotiation.

Amex went through this with Walgreens a year or so ago. Walgreens very publicly said they were dropping the Amex card. After about a month, however, they resumed accepting it.

Amex went through this with Walgreens a year or so ago. Walgreens very publicly said they were dropping the Amex card. After about a month, however, they resumed accepting it.

Yeah, I remember that. They very quickly backtracked and said something like "oh, it was just a temporary...blah blah", but I bet Amex probably had to cut the merchant rate they charge Walgreens.

Statements re Communism are a straw man/men.
It's good Capitalism for Shell to refuse to pay excess fees & to give Amex a chance to reduce the fee.
It was good Capitalism for me to use *wood Amex to reap the generous earning of *points until the Feb. 2007 devaluation. Now I mostly use my Marriott Visa at 2x merchants & DC elsewhere.

Statements re Communism are a straw man/men.
It's good Capitalism for Shell to refuse to pay excess fees & to give Amex a chance to reduce the fee.
It was good Capitalism for me to use *wood Amex to reap the generous earning of *points until the Feb. 2007 devaluation. Now I mostly use my Marriott Visa at 2x merchants & DC elsewhere.

Actually, the statements about the invalidity of my previous post, in light of some "redistribution of wealth" argument, was what I found most ridiculous.

Some Shell stations, the number one selling brand of gasoline in the U.S., stopped accepting AmEx on 2 APR 2007.

"Shell-branded sites in Las Vegas, NV, Little Rock, AR and Knoxville, TN will temporarily stop accepting American Express to help to raise consumer awareness about merchant service fees, which increase operating costs.

Awwww, filthy-rich Shell doesn't like the excessive fees charged by filthy-rich (though not doing quite as well of late) Amex and all the Banks. Cry me a river! This will be over before you know it. Shell gets screwed by Amex fees, Amex gets screwed by merchants who won't accpet the card. Customers get screwed by BOTH.

I have noticed Shell stations not liking any credit cards lately here in FL. You swipe it at the pump and you dont get authorized. You need to go into the store and tell them the dollar amount and they ring it up. Always stated as 'something must be wrong with the card' or 'must be something wrong with the system'. The problem is Shell likes to scare off potential customers - which is their right to deny service. I wont stop at a Shell station anywhere because I know I will be driving away without any gasoline.

Today, a Shell station in Charlotte, NC wouldn't take my Amex card at the pay-at-the-pump. I used another card (my car was on empty) and I called Amex. Apparently, they're getting bombarded by calls today because Shell and Texaco have had their merchant accounts cancelled.

Nice of someone to give us a 'heads up'.

Good for them. They are totally ripped off by AMEX. Other cards do not charge nearly as much. I am not a huge fan of Shell, but somebody needs to let consumers know that their transactions are not free. Maybe then the companies will become more resonable about their charges.

You certainly choose your big corporate goblins selectively. The same paragraph above would be written by lots of folks about Shell and not in support of them.

I pay as I go all the time. If I charge $5,000 in a month, I pay it off at the end of the month. Regular credit card companies don't like that, they want that interest income. But with your normal Amex, it's expected. So I don't own ANY credit cards and only use Amex.

I also don't have the time to go driving around town looking for stuff on sale to save a few dollars. I don't clip coupons and I'm not very price conscience. I'd say I'm close to the ideal customer for most places.

Merchants who don't take Amex, don't get my business. Pretty simple.

I'm also betting the demographic of Amex users are one of higher disposable income than other cards -- yet another reason not to blow them off. (That has to be documented somewhere)

Yes, 1% higher fee sucks. So does advertising costs, custodial costs to keep the place pleasant, cost for energy to keep the store temperature pleasant, etc, etc.... it's the cost of doing business.

I'm also betting the demographic of Amex users are one of higher disposable income than other cards -- yet another reason not to blow them off. (That has to be documented somewhere)

According to Amex Finland merchant site:


card holders earn 54% more than average
card holders use money more than average, they also buy more expensive items
card holders travel a lot
61% of card holders will not visit stores, which do not accept Amex


Maybe that is just for Finland ... :)

...pay it off at the end of the month. Regular credit card companies don't like that...

Companies do not have emotions. We use a mix of charge and credit cards issued primarily by American Express and Citibank. We always pay in full. If you imagine this has created any problem with the credit cards you are mistaken.

The charge versus credit card distinction has lost its relevance. Mastercard and VISA both offer credit cards with "no preset spending limit" and American Express sends frequent invitations to add revolving credit features to the charge cards. The products have become interchangeable.

However, if you're really uncomfortable with the idea of a credit card, investigate Diners Club. It's a charge card, it's also a Mastercard (in North America), and Club Rewards is overall a better program than Membership Rewards.

http://dinersclubus.com/dce_content/clubrewardsandbenefits/benefits/chargecardpersonal

Companies do not have emotions.


No, but their stockholders do! :)


The charge versus credit card distinction has lost its relevance. Mastercard and VISA both offer credit cards with "no preset spending limit" and American Express sends frequent invitations to add revolving credit features to the charge cards. The products have become interchangeable.


True, I get them all the time. After spending the first 15 years of my adulthood in credit card debt, it's not something I even want to be tempted to fall back into, so I stay away from all of that.

I've charged as much as $25k on my Amex card in one transaction before. Of course I had the cash sitting somewhere to pay at the end of the month and knew that. I just wouldn't want a credit card with $25k in credit limit on it I guess. (The first time I was going to charge $25k, I called Amex ahead of time to make sure they'd approve it. The second time I did that they replied "Sir, you don't have to call to get authorization for these kinds of amounts." Makes me wonder what my real internal limit is with them! :p )

Current system works for me and if I jumped ship to another "no preset spending limit" card I'd have to rebuild up a history with them to get that kind of flexibility.


However, if you're really uncomfortable with the idea of a credit card, investigate Diners Club. It's a charge card, it's also a Mastercard (in North America), and Club Rewards is overall a better program than Membership Rewards.

http://dinersclubus.com/dce_content/clubrewardsandbenefits/benefits/chargecardpersonal

That's actually interesting. I didn't know they paired off with MasterCard -- needed around the U.S. since so few places take DC on its own.

... because Shell and Texaco have had their merchant accounts cancelled.
... wait- NATIONWIDE?! All I use is Shell!

(Oh, and I have to side with "Weave" on this issue, too- I've cut down on my use of merchants who don't take AmEx.)

The charge versus credit card distinction has lost its relevance.
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That's actually totally untrue, unless you always PIF monthly, or like to use more than one card.

I have no use for a giant wallet with 12 cards in it, and only carry 3 cards. My atm card, my Platinum Card, and my USAirways card for the places that don't take Amex. I use the Amex for most of my monthly puchases.

Anyway, point is...some months I revolve a balance and some months I do not. It's generally not for very long, since the interest rates on the pay over time features are usually around 18% or so, but it's convenient to have it available nonetheless, and to have everything in one place. Plus, Amex's rewards setup is much easier to use, since points are transferrable with few restrictions and you can redeem on most any carrier (except AA, which I don't fly anyway).

All of the revolving charges are put into a separate section, and interest charges are only assessed on that amount.

With a credit vs. charge card, if I revolved a small balance one month...say $200...and didn't pay in full, and also charged my normal $5000+ in monthly purchases, then they are going to assess interest on the entire average daily balance, including the $5000 in purchases I plan on paying in full as usual.

With a charge card, if I want to take a trip or want to revolve something until I catch the reimbursement for it, then I am assessed interest only on that exact amount, and any other charges that I intend to pay off at the end of the month are not assessed any interest.

It is much cheaper to pay 17.something % on $1000, than to pay 8% on a $5000+ average daily balance.

All credit cards use the average daily balance calculation method, meaning you will be assessed interest on the entirety of your average rolling balance if you don't pay even a small portion of your total charges in full. Additionally, many issuers use two-cycle billing calculations, which further increase your interest charges in the event you don't PIF even a small portion of your balance. It's very unfair.

With charge cards, you avoid this entirely even if you do run a balance.

unless you always PIF monthly

If I need to borrow money it wouldn't be from a card issuer, but you are correct that Diners Club and American Express charge cards do allow the user to revolve an isolated portion of the balance without paying interest on new charges, although the same can be accomplished by transferring the balance to another credit card which you need not keep in your wallet.

If were going to carry one, and only one, card it would be Diners Club rather than American Express, because of the wider acceptance and reward redemption flexibility.

So, I should get a companion DC/MC as a complement to my AmEx? (Thing is, so far, 90% of my annual card spend has been able to go on my AmEx 'cause there's few places that won't take it in the course of my day, and those purchases tend to be small).

If I need to borrow money it wouldn't be from a card issuer, but you are correct that Diners Club and American Express charge cards do allow the user to revolve an isolated portion of the balance without paying interest on new charges, although the same can be accomplished by transferring the balance to another credit card which you need not keep in your wallet.

If were going to carry one, and only one, card it would be Diners Club rather than American Express, because of the wider acceptance and reward redemption flexibility.

ehh...

I get what you're saying, and you're definitely right....card companies are certainly the most expensive way to borrow money....but it's just plain easier.

I guess I could go to my credit union or bank and establish a LOC or something similar to use as a backup, but then it's just one more thing to keep track of.

And as far as transferring balances, there are usually 3% fees on balance transfers, and most companies have no cap on BT fees....so that is just as expensive an option as doing it the way I do it, and then you're back to having yet one more thing to keep track of.

I use Amex for pretty much everything, and if I pay a whopping $200+/- in interest over the course of the year for revolving some charges and paying others, then I think it's worth it to keep everything in one place and easy to manage.

...if I pay a whopping $200+/- in interest over the course of the year for revolving some charges and paying others, then I think it's worth it to keep everything in one place and easy to manage.

Agreed. Once-upon-a-long-gone-time we could withdraw cash from our bank's ATMs with their credit card and there were no transaction fees, only interest at the same rate as purchases. This was a convenience that cost us only a couple hundred dollars per year and saved the marital stress of "Why didn't you tell me you had withdrawn money from the checking account?" ;) Then, the bank sold their credit card business to MBNA and cash advance fees appeared :( .

...get a companion DC/MC as a complement to my AmEx?

We are drifting pretty far from the topic of gasoline merchants protesting American Express transaction fees, but if you search or post in the Other Credit Cards section you will find plenty of advice on the topic of Mastercard or VISA cards to supplement American Express.

My own belief is we need to have at least one each American Express, Mastercard and VISA, each from a different issuer, to insure acceptance in the event of merchant refusal, lost card, frozen account or authorization network failure. This doesn't mean I won't venture out of the house without all three, but when travelling we carry the full set between Ms Mia's wallet and my own.

Agreed. Merchants are doing you a favor by accepting credit cards. Every transaction they accept from you costs them money.

Funny... I thought I was doing them a favor by patronizing their location. I personally walk out of establishments that do not take credit card, and go to the next available place that does. I do this in favor of spending money on gas to drive to the bank/atm every $300 dollars, and in favor of lowering the chances of having money to be robbed of in my pocket.

There are far better ways to handle this situation, but inconviencing customers is not the way to do it.

I was a Shell boycotter for years due to their policies on divestment in South Africa during apartheid. There is still a trigger in my brain, almost two decades later, that screams "no" when I see a Shell sign. Good thing too since I like to pay for gas on my AMEX. ;)

So I have a question for all retailers:

When I am on my corporate business, or trying to bolster my *wood points (the two reasons I use AMEX)....

Lets say I want to buy a $100 dollar item. At most places, the retailer is making a 20% or better profit margin on said item. If not, they should reconsider dropping that product, or being a retailer.

So you are saying that most V/MC are charging 2% or so, and AMEX is a point above that at 3%.

Would you rather have 100(total charge)-80(min. COGS)-$3= $17 profit

-or-

0 (I walked out because you didnt take AMEX) - (Shelf life of product) = 0

I would take the $17 dollars and run every time.

... but if you search or post in the Other Credit Cards section you will find plenty of advice on the topic of Mastercard or VISA cards to supplement American Express.
Oh, I have (and I do), but I specifically meant a Diner's Club MC, for its points system as you'd mentioned. I'd prefer to accumulate points on one issuer's system only, to maximize potential and you seemed to like the DC/MC system better than AmEx MR.

I guess I should spend more time in the DC forum.

...specifically meant a Diner's Club MC, for its points system... seemed to like the DC/MC system better than AmEx MR.

My ranking ...

1. Starwood Preferred Guest
2. Diners Club Rewards
3. Membership Rewards
4. Thank You Rewards
5. Merrill Signature Rewards

...of course this reflects my redemption preferences. For example, if I flew on CO or DL Membership Rewards would move to #1.

If looking for a mileage earning Mastercard or VISA to complement SPG or Membership Rewards I know of three strategies:

A. Diners Club Mastercard because Club Rewards points transfer to many of the same partner airlines and hotels which is an efficient way to combine earnings from two programs. The drawback is the $95 annual fee, which is negotiable, but only if you use the card enough to matter to Citi.

B. Merrill+ VISA earns British Airways miles in blocks of 5,000. No annual fee. Meaningful benefits for $20,000 and $50,000 annual spend, but anecdotal evidence is that even $20,000 is sufficient to obtain a Diners fee waiver or bonus points.

C. An affinity card for a specific airline or hotel chain. Less flexible than Diners but typically you can earn an enrollment bonus and avoid annual fees by changing the card every year or so.

Funny... I thought I was doing them a favor by patronizing their location. I personally walk out of establishments that do not take credit card, and go to the next available place that does. I do this in favor of spending money on gas to drive to the bank/atm every $300 dollars, and in favor of lowering the chances of having money to be robbed of in my pocket.

There are far better ways to handle this situation, but inconviencing customers is not the way to do it.


Couldn't agree with you more.

There is a gas station on every street corner these days...in fact there are usually 3 or 4 of them on every street corner....

They aren't doing you some 'favor' by selling you something you can get from someone else *literally* across the street...

The 'favor' is you, the customer, picking their establishment instead of one of the 20,000 other gas stations in the city.

If they want to turn around and act as though they're doing the customer some great personal favor simply by being there to make a profit from the sale, and then start hassling people over what cards can be used, then screw it...I'll go over to chevron, texaco, mobil, gate, bp, gulf, exxon, a&p, valero, or one of the bazillion other gas stations within 2 miles of my house.

Big whoop. Their loss.

Lets say I want to buy a $100 dollar item. At most places, the retailer is making a 20% or better profit margin on said item. If not, they should reconsider dropping that product, or being a retailer.

So you are saying that most V/MC are charging 2% or so, and AMEX is a point above that at 3%.

Would you rather have 100(total charge)-80(min. COGS)-$3= $17 profit

-or-

0 (I walked out because you didnt take AMEX) - (Shelf life of product) = 0

I would take the $17 dollars and run every time.

The retail margin on gas is no where near 20%. More like 4-5%. While the oil company may be making lots of money on gas sales, the gas station guy is not. Most stations are run by small business folks, not oil company owned.

IMHO, the real issue is that credit card companies in the US vastly overcharge the merchant on fees. The merchant's cost to take cards here is two to three time that in many other countries. Guess that is what happens when you have a credit card oligopoly. :td:

Of course, FTers benefit greatly from this unfair system, because we are collecting benefits which are paid for, at least in big part, by the merchant overcharges. Good for us, bad for the economy.

Now, if I can only get that free F seat on Singapore for my next trip ...?

So I have a question for all retailers:

When I am on my corporate business, or trying to bolster my *wood points (the two reasons I use AMEX)....

Lets say I want to buy a $100 dollar item. At most places, the retailer is making a 20% or better profit margin on said item. If not, they should reconsider dropping that product, or being a retailer.

So you are saying that most V/MC are charging 2% or so, and AMEX is a point above that at 3%.

Would you rather have 100(total charge)-80(min. COGS)-$3= $17 profit

-or-

0 (I walked out because you didnt take AMEX) - (Shelf life of product) = 0

I would take the $17 dollars and run every time.

Probably true on clothing & other dry goods, but the profit margin on gasoline and groceries is much lower.

I am happy receiving DC points which to me are better than Membership Rewards & almost as good as *wood, so I am happy to oblige the merchants by using the DC/MC (or my Marriott Visa at 2x points merchants :) .) If a merchant refuses all CCs, y'all would have a point, but price, quality, & service are much more important to me than the "Visa/MC only--No Amex" issue!

BTW,
How many of U love Amex so much that UR willing to forego FFNs at Hyatt :D ?

:D;)OK..then Exxon or BP will get my Business..

...Shell and Texaco have had their merchant accounts cancelled.

I cannot find any reference to this in the financial news, and that seems odd. Few years back when Walgreens briefly broke with American Express it was widely reported. Has anyone read anything about this, or might it be a local issue?

Me neither, Dennis- but I guess I'll find out for sure tonight when I get gas on the way home!

FWIW, worked in SoCal tonight.

Thanks. (You posted exactly 12 hours later.) I would check, except I don't have a car. Maybe Ms Mia will loan me hers if I offer to fill the tank :) .

What kills me is that the Shell at the corner of 96th and 1st doesn't taken Amex. I've started boycotting it.

(You posted exactly 12 hours later.)
Huh. I had no idea!
I would check, except I don't have a car.
So, is your chauffeur reasonable? I've always wanted one, so I don't have you yell at slow California drivers :)