Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Would an LH Award Allow this Routing?

Sorry, I cannot call LH right now, so if someone can help, that would be great.

Simple question:

Could I do the following routing on an LH award:

MAD-(MUC or FRA)-KBP // IEV-(MUC or FRA)-KBP

This is a simple open jaw, right? The LH.com gives an error when it tries to book.

Thanks,
BJ

If you are going to Kiev, you should use the code KBP rather than IEV. The former is for the main international airport, the latter is for one which does more internal flights. That might help on lh.com!

If you are going to Kiev, you should use the code KBP rather than IEV. The former is for the main international airport, the latter is for one which does more internal flights. That might help on lh.com!

Thanks, but that doesn't help. It replaces IEV and KBP with Kiev anyway.

Do you think this routing would be allowed?

So you are going from Spain to Kiev back to Germany and back to Kiev? I doubt that is allowed on a single award. And since M&M charges a wounded bull for one-way awards will not be particularly efficient combined award either.

So you are going from Spain to Kiev back to Germany and back to Kiev? I doubt that is allowed on a single award. And since M&M charges a wounded bull for one-way awards will not be particularly efficient combined award either.

No, no. I'm not stopping in Germany either way. It's just a transit. The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.

MAD-(MUC or FRA)-KBP // IEV-(MUC or FRA)-KBP


Then correct your post #1!

MAD-KBP-ATH should be possible. I suggest you call the M&M hotline.

No, no. I'm not stopping in Germany either way. It's just a transit. The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.

I seem to remember some discussion that the length of the open sector needs to be shorter than either of the flown sectors, which it is not in your case. If this is incorrect, I am sure someone will correct me...

I seem to remember some discussion that the length of the open sector needs to be shorter than either of the flown sectors, which it is not in your case. If this is incorrect, I am sure someone will correct me...

Yes by definition an open jaw must be the shortest of 3 sides of the triangle. In this case MAD-ATH must be shorter than both MAD-KPB, KBP-ATH. (I'm not sure if distances used direct routing or actual for the purposes of this test - in either case I don't think it meets the definition of open jaw.)

Yes by definition an open jaw must be the shortest of 3 sides of the triangle.
And they are very religious in applying this rule. Had problems getting SYD-NSN/AKL-SYD early this year. First agent argued that as one had to route SYD-WLG-NSN, the NSN-AKL segment would be longer than the WLG-NSN one (which is true but immaterial), the second one insisted that NSN-AKL was an "overwater segment" which is true for about 5% of the route :rolleyes: . The third agent smoothly booked it after verifying that SYD-WLG is indeed longer than NSN-AKL.
Still an interesting argument as the outbound is not SYD-WLG but SYD-NSN, so shouldn't the latter distance count?

I don't know. It is irrelevant, but NSN-AKL is indeed mostly over water. A bit hard to tell from GCM (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=nsn-akl&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=), but in my experience is basically over land only at Taranaki, and Pukekohe/Waiuku area (possibly also Manukau depending on runway direction being used). The rest is over Cook Strait, just off the North Island west coast, and over Manukau Harbour.

I don't know. It is irrelevant, but NSN-AKL is indeed mostly over water.
Hey! You side with them or with me :eek: ?

Of course you are right (http://www.airnz.co.nz/travelinfo/routes/new_zealand_routes_gif.htm), I did it a few times and there is a lot of Tasman water down there.

But then the SYD-PER is often mostly over water and still doesn't count as such. And you can do NSN-AKL by car or train & bus or by foot somehow ....

That is a rubbish map - shown for clarity rather than illustrating flight path.

Back to the OP. I think it would require 2 one-way awards (equals expensive on M&M).

That is a rubbish map - shown for clarity rather than illustrating flight path...
Yes of course these are not flight paths - but at such a small scale you can safely assume NZ to be twodimensional and draw the straight line between NSN and AKL. After all, the Great Circle Mapper doesn't do anything else.

The award would be MAD-Kiev//Kiev-ATH. Isn't that a simple open jaw that should be allowed? There is no stopover in Germany - just connect.
As e.g. MAD-Kiev//Kiev-CDG (or VIE) and also Kiev-MAD//MAD-ATH can be priced normally (15k for flysmart and 28k for a standard award), I would guess that the shortest-of-3-sides-of-the-triangle-rule (http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5307/tmpfk9.jpg)applies here!

no black and white here, again:
FRA-NCE//NCE-(MUC)-HEL is bookable, albeit FRA-HEL isn't the shortest distance. If the online booking engine shows "no fares found for this itinerary", I'd call as suggested.

As e.g. MAD-Kiev//Kiev-CDG (or VIE) and also Kiev-MAD//MAD-ATH can be priced normally (15k for flysmart and 28k for a standard award), I would guess that the shortest-of-3-sides-of-the-triangle-rule (http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5307/tmpfk9.jpg)applies here!

I'm sorry. You say it *can* be priced out, but I don't think I'm obeying the shortest side rule, since the open jaw is MAD-ATH, which is NOT the shortest. Sorry, I'm just not following.

I guess worst case is I booked MAD-FRA|MUC-KBP//KBP-FRA|MUC-MAD as a r/t award and throw away the last sector and buy a FRA|MUC-ATH ticket, which are alway cheap!

Also, what is FlySmart?

If you book you award <14d in advance, fly only LH/OS/LO/LX metal and keep a saturday night stay, you can book it online for only 15k/25k in Y/C inside europe instead of 30k for a traditional *A award in Y inside europe.

I guess worst case is I booked MAD-FRA|MUC-KBP//KBP-FRA|MUC-MAD as a r/t award and throw away the last sector and buy a FRA|MUC-ATH ticket, which are alway cheap!
No need to throw away the last sector! Simply do not book it! You can book an award ticket MAD-MUC-Kiev//Kiev-FRA (btw: less than 90 Euros taxes).

But still, I'd follow the suggestion of the others to call M&M, if you can book the full trip on one award ticket.

If you book you award <14d in advance, fly only LH/OS/LO/LX metal and keep a saturday night stay, you can book it online for only 15k/25k in Y/C inside europe instead of 30k for a traditional *A award in Y inside europe.

Ah yes... I did find that after I posted and edited my post, but you're too fast! The Saturday night stay will trip me up here. Thanks, though.

No need to throw away the last sector! Simply do not book it! You can book an award ticket MAD-MUC-Kiev//Kiev-FRA (btw: less than 90 Euros taxes).

But still, I'd follow the suggestion of the others to call M&M, if you can book the full trip on one award ticket.

OK I will call. It's fantastic having *A miles that I can actually use! ^

OK I will call. It's fantastic having *A miles that I can actually use! ^

BTW any open jaw is allowed on an award as long as it is the same region... outbound or inbound ..