Travel Technology - FCC No Longer Planning to Lift In-Flight Cellphone Ban

Hope this isn't duplicated elsewhere, if so, will delete:

FCC chairman Kevin Martin will recommend that the FCC drop its planned proposal to lift its ban on in-flight cellphone use. The proposal has received only a lukewarm response from consumers, who fear the potential disruptions caused on flights by obnoxious phones users......

Yayyyy!

Yayyyy!
I second that emotion!!!!!^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Seems i hit the g-spot with this. I second the other's - glad to hear it's no off the deck.

No doubt, there are many who disagree

I second that emotion!!!!!^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Add me to the 'Yayyy' group!!

Add me to the 'Yayyy' group!!and add me as well and go figure, a govenmnet agency with common sense :rolleyes: :eek:

I've got mixed feelings about this. As a business traveler there are times where I would love to be able to use my cell phone on a flight. Just the other week I had a situation at work as I was about to board a plane. Luckily we resolved the issue at the same time my boss was calling the airline to cancel my flight and rebook me on a later flight. It worked out that time, but obviously there would have been much less pressure if I could have simply continued the call on the flight.

That said, of course, I can certainly understand why people like the quiet on the plane and 15 people shouting "Can you hear me now?" would not make for a pleasent flight.

They do allow cell phone use after the plane has landed, and I don't see too many people being too disturbing at that time. My guess is that since no one has been able to use their phone during the flight, and a lot of people want to make arrangements with people on the ground at that time, that there are probably more people on the phone at that time than there would be during a flight if it were allowed.

Frankly, though, having a blackberry type device and being an email addict I'd put up with people talking on their cell phones if I could stay current with me email during the flight.

Brett

The article I read about this a couple of days ago specifically said that travelers' input - letters, emails, phone calls, etc. - was overwhelmingly in favor of keeping the ban. I suspect that had at least something to do with it.

In a way, I even like not having email/WiFi onboard. I get a lot of work done because nobody can reach me for a couple hours. But I can eventually see onboard access becoming more common. I hope it's high-quality enough to allow email and web access, but poor enough to prevent VoIP. :p

Put me in the 'yipee' category.

I get the scenario BrettS describes, but I'd be quite wealthy if I had a penny for every phone conversation that starts out w/ "I'm on the plane" and then doesn't really discuss anything important/didn't really require a phone call at all. Or, you get the ones who are on w/ the office & speak in loud voices talking about sales or employees reviews & mentioning their company name :rolleyes: Talk about stoo-pid.

The thought of having to endure all that in-flight - ugh.

I'm also w/ pinniped in that I like that no one can get me on a plane. I can either catch up on work - or more likely - use it as 'me/escape' time & read magazines, books, and watch movies.

Cheers.

If you have a sound proof private cabin, and I don't have to hear you tell little Becky that you "Lovesy-Wuvsy" her, or tell Aunt Martha how you got upgraded into First Class, and they serve free liquor, and you're going to drink them dry, that would be fine.

I most of the traveling public weren't inconsiderate morons I wouldn't mind cellphones in-flight. Given that this will not change anytime soon, ^ ^ to the FCC.

or tell Aunt Martha how you got upgraded into First Class, and they serve free liquor, and you're going to drink them dry, that would be fine.

The best is when the guy in 16E - a United Economy Plus middle seat - is calling the whole world to tell everyone about how he sweet-talked an "upgrade" because of his mad negotiating skillz. :D

Before Amtrak had quiet cars, I was on an almost empty car from nyc to dc with a guy on a cell phone. His wife was dumping him. he wined and wined for 4 hours. wish I could have taped it, so I could play it loudly on every flight with cell allowed.

not everyone is as quiet and as soft spoken as those of you who wish to use cells on the planes.

I have a friend who is so important that he must take calls on the plane. his employer provides him with a private plane.

When I saw the article in the paper this week, I rejoiced that I won't have to endure all those inane conversations on a flight.

Put me in the 'yipee' category.

I get the scenario BrettS describes, but I'd be quite wealthy if I had a penny for every phone conversation that starts out w/ "I'm on the plane" and then doesn't really discuss anything important/didn't really require a phone call at all. Or, you get the ones who are on w/ the office & speak in loud voices talking about sales or employees reviews & mentioning their company name :rolleyes: Talk about stoo-pid.

The thought of having to endure all that in-flight - ugh.

I'm also w/ pinniped in that I like that no one can get me on a plane. I can either catch up on work - or more likely - use it as 'me/escape' time & read magazines, books, and watch movies.

Cheers.We must sit next to the same people.

The article I read about this a couple of days ago specifically said that travelers' input - letters, emails, phone calls, etc. - was overwhelmingly in favor of keeping the ban. I suspect that had at least something to do with it.

In a way, I even like not having email/WiFi onboard. I get a lot of work done because nobody can reach me for a couple hours. But I can eventually see onboard access becoming more common. I hope it's high-quality enough to allow email and web access, but poor enough to prevent VoIP. :p

The previous in-flight wifi -- Connexion -- had me doing email/web (including lots of FT :D ) -- and VOIP. ;) [I used VOIP mostly to check voicemail or just listen in on brief calls.]

Thank god.

The best is when the guy in 16E - a United Economy Plus middle seat - is calling the whole world to tell everyone about how he sweet-talked an "upgrade" because of his mad negotiating skillz. :D Probably using a Bluetooth headset talking to thin air and looking at his seatmates. :rolleyes:

The article I read about this a couple of days ago specifically said that travelers' input - letters, emails, phone calls, etc. - was overwhelmingly in favor of keeping the ban. I suspect that had at least something to do with it.


Well, it seems the pollsters have spoken: nay for cell phones :)

Traveler responses were not the major factor. Rather at 2-4 miles up, phone will use multiple towers which would overload the circuits. So the providers (eg verizon, tmo, att) told FCC technically it would be a nightmare.

That was the major reason, and thank god for it ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Am I the only person who has headphones? Talk on your phone or not - it's not going to bother me. I'd like to be able to send text messages and emails inflight.

I most of the traveling public weren't inconsiderate morons I wouldn't mind cellphones in-flight. Given that this will not change anytime soon, ^ ^ to the FCC.

Well I'm 99% of the time in C or F class, so I don't know that the ones there are 'most of the traveling public' or self-declared important folk ;)

The only folk I usually call pre-takeoff is the 1K line if it looks like there's going to be a misconnect due to weather or mechanical, so I can get protected on another flight. Normally once I'm on the plane I shut down the phone.

Well ok, there was the one time I called cawhite to tell her how cool Swiss F was & about the hot hors d'ouerves pre-takeoff (I've never been on a flight where you got hot munchies before the plane pulled back from the gate!), but I whispered :D

Yes, I have headphones but there are some people loud enough to override them. Grrr.

BTW - true story. Just remembered it, as it's been a few years. I had a friend who was flying somewhere to do a sales pitch for a multi-million $$ account. Turns out his competition who was also flying to make his pitch was sitting in the seat directly in front of him, and discussing 'loudly' pre-take off w/ the home office his pitch & #s (the moron). My friend wrote down all the info and revised his presentation/#s while in flight, got to the account, did the pitch & got the bizness. He said after that that he never looks at anything confidential on his laptop or talks about it on the cell phone while on a plane.

Cheers.

BTW - true story. Just remembered it, as it's been a few years. I had a friend who was flying somewhere to do a sales pitch for a multi-million $$ account. Turns out his competition who was also flying to make his pitch was sitting in the seat directly in front of him, and discussing 'loudly' pre-take off w/ the home office his pitch & #s (the moron). My friend wrote down all the info and revised his presentation/#s while in flight, got to the account, did the pitch & got the bizness. He said after that that he never looks at anything confidential on his laptop or talks about it on the cell phone while on a plane.

Cheers.

From conversations we've overhead against our wills on numerous occasions in airports, airport lounnges, and on planes, I've long assumed that's happened more than once, especially with competitors converging on one destination for a presentation, and it's enjoyable to read your verification. :)

Traveler responses were not the major factor. Rather at 2-4 miles up, phone will use multiple towers which would overload the circuits. So the providers (eg verizon, tmo, att) told FCC technically it would be a nightmare.

The phone is only connected to one tower at a time.

There are two technical main reasons why cell phone on airplanes won't work:

1. The cell phone systems aren't designed to handle the frequency shift (doppler effect) caused by traveling toward or away from a cell tower. The GSM system is only designed to work at 250 km/h. Any higher speed than that, the cell towers cannot properly receive the signal from the phone and the phone can't receive the signal from the sell tower (the frequency shift causes the received frequency to be outside of the specified boundaries)

2. Since an active call would have to be transfered to the cell tower closest to you, there would be multiple handoffs every minute. Not only does it lead to potential dropped calls, it also makes for terrible overall network performance and land-bound users may find themselves not being able to use their phones because the phone system is 'flipping out'.

The phone is only connected to one tower at a time.


From the original article that I read:
carriers are also not very enthusiastic. They fear that in-flight phones could clog their networks by reaching too many substations at the same time because of a plane's altitude, which gives phones line-of-sight access to far more towers on the ground than they would normally have access to.

In any case, the result is what it is - ^ ^ ^

The phone is only connected to one tower at a time.

There are two technical main reasons why cell phone on airplanes won't work:

1. The cell phone systems aren't designed to handle the frequency shift (doppler effect) caused by traveling toward or away from a cell tower. The GSM system is only designed to work at 250 km/h. Any higher speed than that, the cell towers cannot properly receive the signal from the phone and the phone can't receive the signal from the sell tower (the frequency shift causes the received frequency to be outside of the specified boundaries)

2. Since an active call would have to be transfered to the cell tower closest to you, there would be multiple handoffs every minute. Not only does it lead to potential dropped calls, it also makes for terrible overall network performance and land-bound users may find themselves not being able to use their phones because the phone system is 'flipping out'.

I thought that planes were going to avoid using the regular cell network for the reasons above + the fact that collectively the phones might put out a fair whack of signal, which isn't a good thing to do on a plane.

To overcome this airlines were going to install pico cells that meant the phones were communicating with an onboard cell, not one on the ground. The pico cell is connected to a satellite antenna and the calls are routed that way. One of the companies (think there are 2) that are offering this technology is aeromobile (http://www.aeromobile.net/) with Emirates being among the first to offer it.

I'm happy however that the FCC have dropped the plans.

I've got mixed feelings about this. As a business traveler there are times where I would love to be able to use my cell phone on a flight. Just the other week I had a situation at work as I was about to board a plane. Luckily we resolved the issue at the same time my boss was calling the airline to cancel my flight and rebook me on a later flight. It worked out that time, but obviously there would have been much less pressure if I could have simply continued the call on the flight.

I am in the yaaayyy group, because I really DONT want to listen to the people in the situation described above solve their problems for the 5 hours of my flight. It annoys me listening to it from the time you board until they close the door and they finally hang up. Most people on cell phones forget they are not sitting in their office or home and do not remember we can all hear EVERY word they say, and we dont want to.

I would be ok with them banning cell phone from the minute you enter the airport even (they could have isolated rooms where they are allowed). People on phones are incredibley rude talking through security, at check in, walking and so on and hold up the rest of us (newsflash your speed moving does slow down when youa re on the phone)

another yay here. I see traveling as a means of escape- and that includes the cell phone.

thank goodness.... i'm all for being able to connect to an important business call while in flight and agree that a quiet cabin would be a great idea. but the idea of the guy next to me blabbering on to his girlfriend for 3 hours would cause me to commit a in-air crime. The idea of being able to talk while inflight makes sense but unfortunately the realistic viewpoint is NO...

I'm all for being able to use a blackberry while in flight though. Being able to access email and replying to emails while inflight is my hope. If my staff emails me while i'm flying 5 hours and they need an answer asap, I could email back and be done with it vs that delay..

Of course the problem there is that people would use the voice part of the blackberry to dial out and kill that idea.

Always makes me laugh when the plane touches down and the announcement on cell phone usage comes on... 200-400 cell phones get lit up and the beeps go around the cabin....

Maybe the FCC isn't that bad afterall....... NAH

^ Saved me $254.86 for the cellphone blocker I didn't have to order. :D

Am I the only person who has headphones? Talk on your phone or not - it's not going to bother me. I'd like to be able to send text messages and emails inflight.

Yeah, its that attitude that bothers me...
200 people shouldn't have to bring headphones so 20 people can yammer on phones. Unless the charges were very expensive (such as airphone) everybody would be chatting themselves silly. Kids would be on Sidekicks and talking about the new movie with so-and-so; bosses would expect to reach employees who are in the middle seat in coach and suddenly supposed to work as effectively as at work; fights would break out between people who want a modicum of quiet in an aircraft and their seatmate who is screaming at their aunt minny because they normally need to yell on a cell phone on the ground and now have to yell even more on the plane...

I'm sorry, NEVER going to happen.

And as for those who talk on their phones the second the wheels touch down I never understood. Unless you are meeting someone for a connecting flight, why bother? I arrived at JFK the other day on an intl flight and you basically had 30 seconds to use your phone before getting to the restricted area where phones aren't allowed...

I won't be inconvenienced because other people need to talk themselves silly. Call me greedy, selfish, whatever. I want somewhere where I don't need to hear blackberries, sidekicks, and cell phones with the latest j-lo song on them...

Put me in the YAHOOOOOOO YIPEEEEEE KAI YEHHH ! category

At last, a thoughful decision from the Bush administration.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17935297/

Updated: 1 hour, 46 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Federal Communications Commission has officially grounded the idea of allowing airline passengers to use cellular telephones while in flight.

Existing rules require cellular phones to be turned off once an aircraft leaves the ground in order to avoid interfering with cellular network systems on the ground. The agency began examining the issue in December 2004.

Although the public comments seemed to be concentrating on the public nuisance aspect, that's out of the FCC's jurisdiction. They can only rule on the technical aspects.

The ruling simply says that research is still underway as to whether cell phones will be allowed at all on planes due to potential interference, so it's premature to consider lifting the ban with respect to terrestrial networks.

Although the public comments seemed to be concentrating on the public nuisance aspect, that's out of the FCC's jurisdiction. They can only rule on the technical aspects.

The ruling simply says that research is still underway as to whether cell phones will be allowed at all on planes due to potential interference, so it's premature to consider lifting the ban with respect to terrestrial networks.

Alas, you are correct.

I'm in the "YAY!" group because inane cellphone conversations would be as bothersome as crying children, whining micro-dogs, talkative old-timers and gate lice.

Also because I like the privacy that I have (from the outside world) when I'm on a plane. Sure, there is the occasional incident where being able to make a (quick) important call would be helpful, but there ARE satellite phones on board intercontinental flighs and most domestic flights have the (expensive) seat-phones. So leave it at that.

The "problem" is that technically, providing cellular service is not super straightforward, but it IS doable.

And I suspect that the 'potential interference' is about as valid a bit of junk science as 'don't use a cellphone in a gas station; it will blow up' ... or 'don't use a cellphone, you'll get cancer of the ear/brain/whatever.' But although I seriously doubt there is any technical merit to any of these, I am willing to say that cellphones DO interfere, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, because it is a way to keep annoying conversations off planes.

Which, of course is NOT the FCC's purview. But of course Government agencies have increasingly been willing to stick their nose into things that are none of their business on a whole range of topics, so what's one more case :-)

I do note with interest in yesterday's Wall Street Journal column that portends that US airlines will begin to deploy on-board WiFi (hooray! I was a big fan of Connexion).

They ARE expected to block Skype and other voice-over-IP services, but I am sure that there will be work-around "hacks" for this. And I'm not sure they could recognize such traffic, if encrypted via a SSL-VPN connection. They might, however, wind up restricting your bandwidth consumption.

Unfortunately said article does mention that there is still a fighting chance for cellphones on board:

The days when airplanes offer a hiatus from being connected to the office are numbered.

After years of discussion and delay, U.S. airlines will start offering in-flight Internet connections, instant messaging and wireless email within 12 months, turning the cabin into a WiFi "hotspot." Carriers are expected to start making announcements around the end of the summer, with service beginning early next year.

Like it or not, airborne cellphone chatter still has a flying chance in U.S. airplane cabins, as well, despite a recent indication that the Federal Communications Commission will keep a ban in place.

For full article go to online.wsj.com and search for 'WiFi in the Sky: Airlines Prepare Cabin Hotspots'; April 3, 2007; Page B9

It's interesting because on the Metro in Paris you can just about make calls underground across the network yet few people feel obliged to sit there making calls. I have no doubt, however, that when they do the trial in London (although the Waterloo and City line is about the worst choice for a trial) people will be as obnoxious as it is possible to be.

Given the amount of people who call from overland trains on their commute to say "I'm arriving at the station, move the car to the entrance" or "the train has been delayed by 5 minutes, don't leave home early", planes would become a nightmare really fast.

For some people, flying is stressful enough without having to contend with a load of people who simply HAVE to be in contact with their office at all times via email and phone. You know, if you REALLY can't be out of contact, don't get on the damn plane, send someone else.

Alas, you are correct.

I'm in the "YAY!" group because inane cellphone conversations would be as bothersome as crying children, whining micro-dogs, talkative old-timers and gate lice.

Also because I like the privacy that I have (from the outside world) when I'm on a plane. Sure, there is the occasional incident where being able to make a (quick) important call would be helpful, but there ARE satellite phones on board intercontinental flighs and most domestic flights have the (expensive) seat-phones. So leave it at that.

The "problem" is that technically, providing cellular service is not super straightforward, but it IS doable.

And I suspect that the 'potential interference' is about as valid a bit of junk science as 'don't use a cellphone in a gas station; it will blow up' ... or 'don't use a cellphone, you'll get cancer of the ear/brain/whatever.' But although I seriously doubt there is any technical merit to any of these, I am willing to say that cellphones DO interfere, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, because it is a way to keep annoying conversations off planes.

Which, of course is NOT the FCC's purview. But of course Government agencies have increasingly been willing to stick their nose into things that are none of their business on a whole range of topics, so what's one more case :-)

I do note with interest in yesterday's Wall Street Journal column that portends that US airlines will begin to deploy on-board WiFi (hooray! I was a big fan of Connexion).

They ARE expected to block Skype and other voice-over-IP services, but I am sure that there will be work-around "hacks" for this. And I'm not sure they could recognize such traffic, if encrypted via a SSL-VPN connection. They might, however, wind up restricting your bandwidth consumption.

Unfortunately said article does mention that there is still a fighting chance for cellphones on board:

The potential for 300 (an entire aircraft full of) phones all trying to connect (at full transmit strength whilst at 30,000ft) to a cell, to interfere with the aircraft systems I'm told does exist. I also work in a building where mobiles are banned in certain areas to prevent interference. It isn't a flight I'd want to be on board when they test it out though, things transmitting at very low power are far safer, hence the systems I mentioned by Aeromobile and (I think) Onair in my earlier post. Also the things aren't going to work much outside of major land masses and so any cellphones left on on Trans Pacific/Atlantic flights are going to be continually transmitting at full strength to try and find a network :eek: .

This one is easy to respond to!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Doesn't make sense though, when has the government ever did the right thing. :D

But still glad they did. ^

It's interesting because on the Metro in Paris you can just about make calls underground across the network yet few people feel obliged to sit there making calls. I have no doubt, however, that when they do the trial in London (although the Waterloo and City line is about the worst choice for a trial) people will be as obnoxious as it is possible to be.

I'm not a regular Metro, Tube, or BART rider, but my impression is that the noise from the wheel flanges on track make conversing on a cellphone problematic anyway?

I'm not a regular Metro, Tube, or BART rider, but my impression is that the noise from the wheel flanges on track make conversing on a cellphone problematic anyway?


You would be wrong birdstrike. The solution is simple... just talk louder! :D I ride the Metro daily and almost once a day there is someone in my car that is talking obnoxiously loud on their cell phone. Just today someone was talking about why the USPS sucks and how they lost his mail. :mad: The only time he quieted down was when we went into a tunnel and traveled underground. Then I heard a lot of "hello? Hello! HELLO!" :(

Given the amount of people who call from overland trains on their commute to say "I'm arriving at the station, move the car to the entrance" or "the train has been delayed by 5 minutes, don't leave home early", planes would become a nightmare really fast.




Like the woman who sat next to me a couple flights ago. She whipped out her cell phone and said, "Hey, we just landed and are still on the runway. I will call you when I get to the gate." Are you telling me the person she called couldn't have waited 5 minutes to hear from her? :rolleyes:

:D :D ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


:cool: sigh of relief!!!!!

What seems odd to me is that the S'pore MRT and HK MTR (local underground/metros/subways) have mobile coverage essentially everywhere. Usually 10 or so people in a car are on the phone simultaneously and it doesn't seem to be a social problem.

I see no need for using cell phones on the plane, surfing the web while flying would be nice ( of course then I would need a cheap, lightweight with long battery life laptop)

Remember if they do offer some kind of service, it's not going to be free

Although it would be funny to see after a flight, which several people had been using their cell phones, blackberry and pda devices during the whole flight get off the plane and have their batteries go dead, when they need them the most

The mixed rulings (wifi yes; cellphone no) is going to hurt Blackberry on the short haul. Blackberry has to connect through the phone system. My Nokia E61, the T-Mobile Dash, Cingular 8525, etc. can read their e-mail from wifi as well as cellular signals. Assuming the airlines implement a PDA friendly logon screen, we'll be in business.

I'm thinking that Blackberry should be able to come up with a Blackberry which uses wifi as well as cellular, but at the moment there does not seem to be such a creature.

I carry a spare, but now that so many devices can recharge off of USB which is low volt and low amp, it would be nice if the airlines could provide that much power at the seat.

Now there is that upcoming deal where many airlines have agreed to make their seats iPod friendly and which will power the iPod in flight. I'm guessing that there should be some sort of hack to charge other devices. By the way, it just occurred to me that Apple has another base covered there. The forthcoming iPhone will use the same connector as an iPod.

I am so glad that cell phones will not be allowed in airplanes. having people talk while I am in the airplane does not strike my fancy. so yippee that decision :D