JetBlue TrueBlue - March 16, 2007, jetBlue self-destructs again

One would think that checking the status of a flight later today on an airline purported to be credible may be as simple as going to their website, or calling them on the phone. Well, jetBlue refutes that assumption.

We are scheduled to fly later today. A trip to the flight status function of the jetBlue website is greeted by a "server is busy" response, followed by several minutes of "processing," that resulted in "this website is not available."

In frustration, I try calling "Black and Blue," to be greeted by "all circuits are busy."

It seems to me that the house that David built is once again crumbling when confronted by predicted adverse weather in the northeast.

What flight are you trying to get out on? I'll find out what I can.

Predicted adverse weather in the northeast is going to create havoc no matter what airline you are flying in or out of the NE.
Hang in there! Being one who has called, waited, and spoke to several airlines already this morning including JetBlue, I have found them to be accomodating as best they can.

I said in another post that we, along with every other NYC airline, are booked at or near capacity this weekend. So that means thousands of customer flooding the phone lines and the server. I'm no computer wiz, just a glorified vending machine, but I'm not sure if any server or phone system can handle that much volume. The internal site I use is working so I can help in some small fashion with flights and times.

I am having the same issues with flight status on the website. I was wondering if the last 2 flights of the day from BUR to JFK have been canceled yet?

From what I am looking at, nothing official from the company, all flights to and from JFK this afternoon have been cancelled.

mobile.jetblue.com is up and working fine, for the time being.

According to jetblue.com, all flights in and out of JFK, LGA and EWR are cancelled through tonight.

I'm no computer wiz, just a glorified vending machine, but I'm not sure if any server or phone system can handle that much volume.


Yes, it can, it's called infrastructure and having an adequate number of lines and people during irregular ops. It costs money.

From what I've seen, other carriers do a much better job of this than JB.

From what I've seen, other carriers do a much better job of this than JB.

Other carriers are more diversified in geography than is JetBlue. If UAL had 100% of their hubs impacted by a major ice storm their phones and web servers would be overwhelmed, too.

With only a single, major hub there really isn't a good way to handle this. You'd have to build an infrastructure that is several times larger than what is needed for normal operations.

Even if increased infrastructure was planned as a result of the February mess I doubt that it would be implemented just a month later.

Other carriers are more diversified in geography than is JetBlue. If UAL had 100% of their hubs impacted by a major ice storm their phones and web servers would be overwhelmed, too.

With only a single, major hub there really isn't a good way to handle this. You'd have to build an infrastructure that is several times larger than what is needed for normal operations.

Even if increased infrastructure was planned as a result of the February mess I doubt that it would be implemented just a month later.


The fact remains, other airlines do a better job of this. If you're a fair-weather flyer, JB may be just for you. But the true test comes during irregular ops.

A month probably isn't enough time to make any major changes in the infrastructure. But the question is whether JB will make a commitment and follow through. It will cost money.

Other carriers are more diversified in geography than is JetBlue. If UAL had 100% of their hubs impacted by a major ice storm their phones and web servers would be overwhelmed, too.

With only a single, major hub there really isn't a good way to handle this. You'd have to build an infrastructure that is several times larger than what is needed for normal operations.

Even if increased infrastructure was planned as a result of the February mess I doubt that it would be implemented just a month later.

You are right that this can happen to any airline even if just one of their hubs is affected. Look at what happened to UA with the horrible storm that hit DEN back in December. You couldn't even get through to agent (or were on hold for excessive periods of time)or get anything to work on the website. So blame mother nature, but don't blame Jet Blue.

With only a single, major hub there really isn't a good way to handle this. You'd have to build an infrastructure that is several times larger than what is needed for normal operations.


Also, my post was in response to JetBlueFA's assertion that "I'm not sure if any server or phone system can handle that much volume." It can, but obviously not using home-based workers on dial-up modems with not enough phone lines.

You couldn't even get through to agent (or were on hold for excessive periods of time)or get anything to work on the website.

BS. You're making this up. UA's website continued to provide up to date flight status information through the DEN storm.

Just because B6 sucks, don't try to bring down other airlines with you.

The fact remains, other airlines do a better job of this. If you're a fair-weather flyer, JB may be just for you. But the true test comes during irregular ops.

A month probably isn't enough time to make any major changes in the infrastructure. But the question is whether JB will make a commitment and follow through. It will cost money.The true test of B6 IS in bad weather; you're right. Do they spend a lot of money to get some recording of an idiot woman who says that she is hanging up on you so if you want info, go to the website, a website B6 knows is not functioning. Explain the rationale of that. What idiot inside the B6 infastructure came up with that IDEA??? The result of that infastructure's move to create that recording which hangs up on me is for them to lose a customer who used to BRAG about them to others.

This is interesting. I just received this preemptive email from Expedia even though I am not flying today:

Dear BearX220,

You are probably already aware of the winter storm affecting the Northeastern US today. This has affected flight operations at dozens of airports and resulted in call volume thus far today outpacing forecast by two-fold. Hold times will be long for the remainder of today – 5-10 minute range. We knew this was coming and it is all hands on deck at the support centers with overtime being utilized and shifts extended wherever possible.

It’s definitely an inconvenience for travelers any time this happens but our first priority is to make sure all travelers are taken care of and issues are resolved as quickly as possible.

Regards,

Erik Hunter
Senior Director, Global Customer Service
Expedia Corporate Travel

Talk about setting expectations properly... apologizing for making customers go through a 5-10 minute hold while JetBlue customers can't get through at all.

This is all about managing expectations! Score a point for Expedia.

BS. You're making this up. UA's website continued to provide up to date flight status information through the DEN storm.

Just because B6 sucks, don't try to bring down other airlines with you.

No I am not. The website did not work 100% of the time during the storms. I could not get accurate information on certain flights I was booked on. Also, when it came to using the website for ticketing, there were issues there as well. I ended up having to call websupport in India, who surprisingly was actually able to help.

B6 does not suck and I am not trying to bring down any other airline. I am just trying to show that no airline is immune from the problems related to what mother nature brings us. When severe weather hits a particular area and an airline has a hub there, they get screwed. It doesnt matter if its B6, UA, US, NW, etc.

Oh and since when does being a "Evangelist" give you the right to be hostile to those that have opposing viewpoints to you??

The fact remains, other airlines do a better job of this. If you're a fair-weather flyer, JB may be just for you. But the true test comes during irregular ops.

A month probably isn't enough time to make any major changes in the infrastructure. But the question is whether JB will make a commitment and follow through. It will cost money.

The other airlines do not do a better job than this. As I stated in a previous post, if severe weather hits an airline's hub, they get screwed. Doesn't matter which airline it is.

No I am not. The website did not work 100% of the time during the storms. I could not get accurate information on certain flights I was booked on. Also, when it came to using the website for ticketing, there were issues there as well. I ended up having to call websupport in India, who surprisingly was actually able to help.


Did you post about it? Can you dig up the post? I had no problems whatsoever using the webpage during the storm.


B6 does not suck

No, you're right. They're the best airline in the world!!!!

The other airlines do not do a better job than this. As I stated in a previous post, if severe weather hits an airline's hub, they get screwed. Doesn't matter which airline it is.

Try calling UA right now and see if they answer your call.

The fact remains, other airlines do a better job of this.

It's not as big a problem for them as they have more geographically diverse route structures.

t can, but obviously not using home-based workers on dial-up modems with not enough phone lines.

Actually, the home-based worker system is probably better suited to this then a call center operation. UAL got hit hard at DEN a few months ago and the storm also hit their big call center keeping agents from reaching their stations. If the agents were based at home this would have been less of a problem and it would be easier to ramp up the operation since the workers wouldn't have to leave home to do the overtime.

Do they spend a lot of money to get some recording of an idiot woman who says that she is hanging up on you so if you want info, go to the website, a website B6 knows is not functioning. Explain the rationale of that. What idiot inside the B6 infastructure came up with that IDEA???

Every system has technical limits. When those limits are reached it fails. When the JetBlue system's limits are reached it plays that recording and disconnects. Would you prefer that it just drop the call without giving any explanation first?

Every system has technical limits. When those limits are reached it fails. When the JetBlue system's limits are reached it plays that recording and disconnects. Would you prefer that it just drop the call without giving any explanation first?What explanation did they give? They told people to go online since all of their agents were on the phone. So who gets through? Online tracking info is down. So why direct people to a system which they know is inept and then hang up on them??

What explanation did they give? They told people to go online since all of their agents were on the phone. So who gets through? Online tracking info is down. So why direct people to a system which they know is inept and then hang up on them??

Flight tracker appears to be up and running at the current moment, not sure if it will stay up, but there it is.

What explanation did they give? They told people to go online since all of their agents were on the phone. So who gets through? Online tracking info is down. So why direct people to a system which they know is inept and then hang up on them??

NW did this to me a couple of times as well. "We are experiencing heavy call volumes. Goodbye."

It was infuriating. I can't possibly understand how someone thought that the above is a good idea.

So why direct people to a system which they know is inept and then hang up on them??

When the system's capacity is reached you are going to get hung up on regardless. Are we arguing over what the message should say before you're disconnected?

The other airlines do not do a better job than this. As I stated in a previous post, if severe weather hits an airline's hub, they get screwed. Doesn't matter which airline it is.


No one at B6, from the top down, denied the infrastructure problems during the previous meltdown. It was too obvious to deny.

I'll stand by my statement. Other airlines have more phone lines, customer-service reps, don't use dial-up modems for home-based workers, have better logistics, and do a better job of handling irregular ops than B6.

How long will it take for B6 to improve its infrastructure and how much are they willing to spend? Who knows.

How long are their passengers willing to wait?

I Drove friends to the airport this morning as I couldn't get though on the phone to check status. Their flight out of BQN (Aguadilla, PR) was cancelled, as expected. The Jet Blue response was not.
I understand weather delay, I do not understand that the next available flight will be NEXT WEDNESDAY, with no compensation for the extra 5 days before a possible return to home and work. I've never flown Jet Blue, and after this I doubt that I ever will.
BTW, Continental (which is the only other to fly this route) departed on time and arrived early.

My take on all of this (opinions and observations):

1. Adverse weather in the northeast, where jetBlue's operations are localized, causes jetBlue's thresholds to be exceeded, and causes havoc on jetBlue's telephone system, website, and airport customer service operations;

2. Adverse weather is an effective barometer for measuring/assessing an airline's operational thresholds and their infrastructure (and redundancies);

3. Unlike other airlines that have hubs disbursed throughout the country, jetBlue stands little chance of minimizing the impact of adverse weather in the northeast on the rest of their system ("all roads lead to Kansas, Dorothy," "all roads lead to JFK, David" - - that's a problem!);

4. jetBlue's unwillingness to endorse their tickets to other carriers represents a major risk that the average consumer is unaware of (jetBlue will undoubtedly allege that this policy is a requisite to maintaining their value fare structure);

5. Passengers of any airline - - not limited to jetBlue - - that operate a limited or irregular frequency of flights out of a particular city, and who are unwilling to endorse their tickets to other carriers, are at great risk for long delays/limited options in alternate routings (e.g. in a city with high load factors, a passenger may be stuck in that city for several days, until alternate routings are available);

6. Building an adequate infrastructure ("safety net") at jetBlue will require significant time and expense.

My take on all of this (opinions and observations):

1. Adverse weather in the northeast, where jetBlue's operations are localized, causes jetBlue's thresholds to be exceeded, and causes havoc on jetBlue's telephone system, website, and airport customer service operations;

2. Adverse weather is an effective barometer for measuring/assessing an airline's operational thresholds and their infrastructure (and redundancies);

3. Unlike other airlines that have hubs disbursed throughout the country, jetBlue stands little chance of minimizing the impact of adverse weather in the northeast on the rest of their system ("all roads lead to Kansas, Dorothy," "all roads lead to JFK, David" - - that's a problem!);

4. jetBlue's unwillingness to endorse their tickets to other carriers represents a major risk that the average consumer is unaware of (jetBlue will undoubtedly allege that this policy is a requisite to maintaining their value fare structure);

5. Passengers of any airline - - not limited to jetBlue - - that operate a limited or irregular frequency of flights out of a particular city, and who are unwilling to endorse their tickets to other carriers, are at great risk for long delays/limited options in alternate routings (e.g. in a city with high load factors, a passenger may be stuck in that city for several days, until alternate routings are available);

6. Building an adequate infrastructure ("safety net") at jetBlue will require significant time and expense.


Good analysis.

I'm sure a B6 cheerleader will be along soon to say "it ain't so."

some other airlines certainly do a better job by any objective measure. even Jet blue has admitted it. now, perhaps they may be better in the future, but they haven't proven it yet.

The other airlines do not do a better job than this. As I stated in a previous post, if severe weather hits an airline's hub, they get screwed. Doesn't matter which airline it is.

NW did this to me a couple of times as well. "We are experiencing heavy call volumes. Goodbye."

It was infuriating. I can't possibly understand how someone thought that the above is a good idea.

While I understand your frustration, all -and I mean all- large call center operations that are subject to unusually large surges do this. It's called blocking. They have to. Just from the phone line side, you can have 5 phone lines handlining this operation that would take 250 or more to operate that connect to a person.

From the human side, you absolutely cannot have thousands of employees that sit around all day just in case a snowstorm or hurricane strike. One of my customers in another business once estimated that they would have had to have 2,500 additional employees on hand to handle their call volume down to a fairly acceptable level. Remember, calls during trouble times are much longer than calls during regular times.

The above being said, JBLU does seem to be running a pretty seat of the pants operation.

It's why I quit flying them - and Airtran. I find I need a certain level of professionalism when I'm at 35,000 feet.

4. jetBlue's unwillingness to endorse their tickets to other carriers represents a major risk that the average consumer is unaware of (jetBlue will undoubtedly allege that this policy is a requisite to maintaining their value fare structure);


This is the reason I see myself avoiding JetBlue in the future. I love JetBlue planes and I love their CS reps, but knowing that when other airlines have irregular opps, they can put you on another airline while JetBlue will say "Sorry, have your money back, lad. See what you can do for yourself." makes me think twice. Or more than twice. At the end of the day, I need to get from point A to point B and I need to be with an airline that can make that happen.

My take on all of this (opinions and observations):

Excellent summary, IMO.

This is the reason I see myself avoiding JetBlue in the future. I love JetBlue planes and I love their CS reps, but knowing that when other airlines have irregular opps, they can put you on another airline while JetBlue will say "Sorry, have your money back, lad. See what you can do for yourself." makes me think twice. Or more than twice. At the end of the day, I need to get from point A to point B and I need to be with an airline that can make that happen.

Agree wholeheartedly! ^ Couldn't have said it better myself.

Well operations are pretty much on schedule for today. JFK and BOS are experiencing sporatic cancellations, BOS more than anything because the system just moved out. All NYC airports are seeing departures this morning and few cancellations. Looks like precancelling helped out this time. If only we had done it a month ago we wouldn't have suffered. However the falilure last month brought to light our major problems and lack of infrastructure!

However the falilure last month brought to light our major problems and lack of infrastructure!


A well-run airline would have improved the infrastructure before it collapsed and inconvenienced thousands of passengers.

I have tried all day to cancel a B6 flight, and at the point of True Blue login, and/or on the page where you would enter your confirmation number I get a
Skylights critical server error. There is mo mention of this web problem on the ops update, or when you call in. I just tried to call and it said hold time of 18 mins so I hung up. I tried to call earlier and got a recording saying lines were so busy it would not even queue people up for an agent.

Given that B6 has the infrastructure in place to allow work at home res agents, I don't know why they can't do better with calls. Heck, I might consider working for them in exchange for flight credits :) during some irregular operations. After all I'm just home watching tv and on FT :) as sad as that is on a Sat night.

Let's review.

Overloaded phone system, before it hangs up, refers callers to a website that doesn't work. Then someone who appears to be a B6 employee comes on FT and offers to check on flights.

Great way to run an airline.

As someone who has been a frequent flier (150,000 to 225,000 BIS miles per year) over the past 20 years, I have flown virtually every airline from low-cost to full-service. I've flown B6 a few times and applaud them for a good Y in-flight product and generally pretty good service.

Right now, I mainly fly F so B6 is not my choice. However, if you fly enough, you run into snowstorms, ice storms and other things that turn a trip into something ugly.

That said, if I were flying 10-50x per year in Y, I would be on B6 every trip enjoying that 36 inch pitch and TV. As long as B6 runs a safe airline, I would prefer to take one or two ugly trips a year as opposed to 35 bad trips in Y on one of the network carriers.

As someone who has been a frequent flier (150,000 to 225,000 BIS miles per year) over the past 20 years, I have flown virtually every airline from low-cost to full-service. I've flown B6 a few times and applaud them for a good Y in-flight product and generally pretty good service.

Right now, I mainly fly F so B6 is not my choice. However, if you fly enough, you run into snowstorms, ice storms and other things that turn a trip into something ugly.

That said, if I were flying 10-50x per year in Y, I would be on B6 every trip enjoying that 36 inch pitch and TV. As long as B6 runs a safe airline, I would prefer to take one or two ugly trips a year as opposed to 35 bad trips in Y on one of the network carriers.

I would say the BEST judge of "jetBLUE's" performance are its frequent fliers, not the passenger who makes an occasional passing on jetBlue.

The novelty of jet Blue’s aircraft and in-flight service quickly wear off when one is subjected to dysfunction on a repeated basis. Take Friday, March 16, 2007, for example: (1) accessing jetBlue by telephone was impossible, (2) determining flight status or modifying a reservation via jetBlue's website was equally impossible, and (3) due to jetBlue's unwillingness to endorse their tickets over to other carriers (who may have a higher frequency of flights between a particular city pair, or an available seat or two (recognizing that that is not their responsibility during adverse weather)), we were left with one of two options: (a) wait till Monday for jetBlue to create two available seats between PBI and BOS, or (b) seek a refund from jetBlue on our PBI-BOS flight segment (exactly what jetBlue wants in this situation), and purchase a walk-up fare on Southwest to PVD.

Your comments, although well intended and representing your valuable perspective, remind me of the Hospital Administrator in the meticulously pressed suit who hides in his office, insulated from the anguish that patients suffer every day, and completely out of touch with reality. This is a case where you have to be in the trenches to smell the foul smell.

BS. You're making this up. UA's website continued to provide up to date flight status information through the DEN storm.

Just because B6 sucks, don't try to bring down other airlines with you.
No I am not. The website did not work 100% of the time during the storms. I could not get accurate information on certain flights I was booked on. Also, when it came to using the website for ticketing, there were issues there as well. I ended up having to call websupport in India, who surprisingly was actually able to help.

B6 does not suck and I am not trying to bring down any other airline. I am just trying to show that no airline is immune from the problems related to what mother nature brings us. When severe weather hits a particular area and an airline has a hub there, they get screwed. It doesnt matter if its B6, UA, US, NW, etc.

Oh and since when does being a "Evangelist" give you the right to be hostile to those that have opposing viewpoints to you??
Yes, you are making this up. I know, because I was scheduled to fly UA 932 between DEN-IAD on Friday, December 22 at 3:36 p.m. DEN was closed until noon that day and UA started cancelling flights on Thursday, December 21. I spent a good part of the day on December 21 checking united.com to see which flights were cancelled and which ones were going. I checked at least once per hour, and as clunky as that website it, I never received anything but updated flight status. By the evening of December 21, united.com showed all DEN-IAD flights before noon as cancelled and about one-third of the ones after noon as cancelled. And all of those that were scheduled as of that time did leave as scheduled on Friday afternoon.

You are correct in saying "that no airline is immune from the problems related to what mother nature brings us." However, most other airlines handle those problems a lot better than JetBlue.

This is the reason I see myself avoiding JetBlue in the future. I love JetBlue planes and I love their CS reps, but knowing that when other airlines have irregular opps, they can put you on another airline while JetBlue will say "Sorry, have your money back, lad. See what you can do for yourself." makes me think twice. Or more than twice. At the end of the day, I need to get from point A to point B and I need to be with an airline that can make that happen.
Good assessment.

However, JetBlue won't even refund my money from last February. After we were held on a JetBlue plane for nearly 9 hours, they cancelled our flight and offered us no confirmed flight for the remainder of the week. And for the past year, they have refused to refund the remaining value of the ticket, because they are a "non-refundable" airline. I know that fares are non-refundable. But when I have been on flights on other airlines that were cancelled due to weather, and they were unable to accommodate me within a reasonable period, they offered me the option of a refund.

I hope I can find someone at JetBlue who will apply a little common sense to this situation, but I'm not holding my breath.

Let's review.

Overloaded phone system, before it hangs up, refers callers to a website that doesn't work. Then someone who appears to be a B6 employee comes on FT and offers to check on flights.

Great way to run an airline.

This was the case with practically any Carrier that flys into the NE this time around. Just click onto any Forum and read the horror stories of people complaining how they were left to fend for themselves and cant get a flight for days from now if anything at all.

And yes there were close to a dz planes that sat on the Tarmac on Fri for up to 10 hrs and then Cancelled the flight, mainly Intl Carriers. Hey, Not 1 of them were JB!! Lets give JB credit when in fact they are DUE it!!

I would say the BEST judge of "jetBLUE's" performance are its frequent fliers, not the passenger who makes an occasional passing on jetBlue.

The novelty of jet Blue’s aircraft and in-flight service quickly wear off when one is subjected to dysfunction on a repeated basis. Take Friday, March 16, 2007, for example: (1) accessing jetBlue by telephone was impossible, (2) determining flight status or modifying a reservation via jetBlue's website was equally impossible, and (3) due to jetBlue's unwillingness to endorse their tickets over to other carriers (who may have a higher frequency of flights between a particular city pair, or an available seat or two (recognizing that that is not their responsibility during adverse weather)), we were left with one of two options: (a) wait till Monday for jetBlue to create two available seats between PBI and BOS, or (b) seek a refund from jetBlue on our PBI-BOS flight segment (exactly what jetBlue wants in this situation), and purchase a walk-up fare on Southwest to PVD.

Your comments, although well intended and representing your valuable perspective, remind me of the Hospital Administrator in the meticulously pressed suit who hides in his office, insulated from the anguish that patients suffer every day, and completely out of touch with reality. This is a case where you have to be in the trenches to smell the foul smell.

The point you are missing is that the "meltdowns" you are talking about don't happen everyday. If you're unlucky, you get nailed twice a year.

For a person who travels 30-45 times per year, that's not bad. Airlines have to cancel a half day worth of flights because their computer system goes down, everything out of LHR to Europe is xxd for days because of weather, an airline xxs several days of flights because of a proposed flight attendants strike, and on and on.

Flying in the front on other airlines I come across these things and the recovery of other airlines varies from good to bad, and one time an airline that is good is bad the next time in recovery.

My point was simple. If I lived in NYC and flew Y 30-45 times a year and B6 had flights to enough of the places I traveled, I would happily take the 28-43 times everything worked on B6 with its better legroom and TV than say a slightly better recovery by AA, CO, US etc on those two times the sh*t hit the fan, but then be stuck in cramped Y seating for my 30-45 trips.

Again, don't misinterpret what I said. Maybe B6 isn't as good as dealing with the snow days as other airlines, and if I was flying to SJU to catch a cruise, I would book AA instead (because they have more options to get me there), but for a road warrior B6 provides more comfort in Y under normal ops.

My point was simple. If I lived in NYC and flew Y 30-45 times a year and B6 had flights to enough of the places I traveled, I would happily take the 28-43 times everything worked on B6 with its better legroom and TV than say a slightly better recovery by AA, CO, US etc on those two times the sh*t hit the fan, but then be stuck in cramped Y seating for my 30-45 trips.If those 2 trips are so lacking in importance that your personal comfort in Y is of higher priority, then you're the right target audience for JetBlue.

Travelers for whom each trip is important - JetBlue's image has changed.

If those 2 trips are so lacking in importance that your personal comfort in Y is of higher priority, then you're the right target audience for JetBlue.

Travelers for whom each trip is important - JetBlue's image has changed.

Each trip is generally important to me :D

My point however is flying BA, AA, AZ, DL, etc I have good trips and bad trips. Snow is going to screw up the plans of the AA and DL pax as well on those days - and they certainly handled it better than B6. However, I would rather have a worse experience on those days when it is snowing on B6 than get crammed into DL, CO or AA coach cabins which have much tighter seating, mostly no inflight TV and have the current reputation for being dirty.

I think B6's bigger issue what you said - image. They need to make sure they don't have parts falling off their engines anymore because most people IMHO will trade comfort for the perception of safety, which is an advantage the network carriers have.

However, I would rather have a worse experience on those days when it is snowing on B6 than get crammed into DL, CO or AA coach cabins which have much tighter seating, mostly no inflight TV and have the current reputation for being dirty.


Different strokes, I guess.

I'd much rather be on an airline that can get me where I'm going quicker and more efficiently, than to have a "worse experience" on JetBlue for a TV and maybe a little extra legroom. And dirty planes have not been an issue with me on the three carriers you mentioned--DL, CO and AA.

YMMV.

Different strokes, I guess.

I'd much rather be on an airline that can get me where I'm going quicker and more efficiently, than to have a "worse experience" on JetBlue for a TV and maybe a little extra legroom. And dirty planes have not been an issue with me on the three carriers you mentioned--DL, CO and AA.

YMMV.

Maybe I'm not making my point correctly:

A) Two badly handled snow storm delays from hell and 25 flights w extra legroom - up to 36 inches
B) Two decently handled snow storm delays and 25 flights with 32 inch legroom

My choice would have been A

Each trip is generally important to me :D

My point however is flying BA, AA, AZ, DL, etc I have good trips and bad trips. Snow is going to screw up the plans of the AA and DL pax as well on those days - and they certainly handled it better than B6. However, I would rather have a worse experience on those days when it is snowing on B6 than get crammed into DL, CO or AA coach cabins which have much tighter seating, mostly no inflight TV and have the current reputation for being dirty.


Based on what? I'd say CO has some of the cleanest planes in the U.S.

Based on what? I'd say CO has some of the cleanest planes in the U.S.

I absolutely agree. B6 is definitely not the cleanest airline; it just has most of the newest aircraft. What you may think is dirt, is actually wear on the other airlines.

I absolutely agree. B6 is definitely not the cleanest airline; it just has most of the newest aircraft. What you may think is dirt, is actually wear on the other airlines.


EXCUSE ME??? Have you ever stayed behind at the end of a flight to watch the flight attendants and flight deck crew, with their blue gloves on, cleaning out each and every seat back pocket? Two cleaners are onboard, one doing the bathrooms, one with the vacuum. Here's what we routinely find in the pockets: folded up dirty diapers, chewed gum, not wrapped in anything, full vomit bags, crushed chips/cookies/crackers, a full bag of breast milk, articles of clothing. I could go on and on but the point is, how often do you get on a B6 plane and find any of this in the pockets?

We take pride in how clean our planes are. You wanna see some dirty planes? Go fly someone else.

BTW, for all of you who are whinning about B6...please, feel free to fly another carrier. Our flights are full, we do our best, if you want to get out your three nails and a hammer, fine. but we'll still smile at you while your .....ing at us.:D

Based on what? I'd say CO has some of the cleanest planes in the U.S.

I guess cleanliness is subjective. 36 inch pitch vs. 32 inch is not:D

EXCUSE ME??? Have you ever stayed behind at the end of a flight to watch the flight attendants and flight deck crew, with their blue gloves on, cleaning out each and every seat back pocket? Two cleaners are onboard, one doing the bathrooms, one with the vacuum. Here's what we routinely find in the pockets: folded up dirty diapers, chewed gum, not wrapped in anything, full vomit bags, crushed chips/cookies/crackers, a full bag of breast milk, articles of clothing. I could go on and on but the point is, how often do you get on a B6 plane and find any of this in the pockets?

We take pride in how clean our planes are. You wanna see some dirty planes? Go fly someone else.

BTW, for all of you who are whinning about B6...please, feel free to fly another carrier. Our flights are full, we do our best, if you want to get out your three nails and a hammer, fine. but we'll still smile at you while your .....ing at us.:D

Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree.

It's going to be very difficult to convince the general public that B6 is doing their best at managing the airline. The mishaps over the past 5 weeks have been inexcusable.

Your flight attendants ask the passengers to clean out their pockets. Supposedly these actions by the passengers keep the fares down. Thats a bit far, I think. So, you may be doing a wonderful job, and I applaud you, but the passengers are cleaning out the seat back pockets themselves before you find the nasty things you mentioned above. On other airlines, not all, they don't ask you to clean out seat back pockets. They expect that the crews that come onboard afterwards to do that job. Frankly, if the passengers did your job, you'd be out of one. Be thankful for the garbage you find; its keeping you employed.

You asked if we find nasty things in the seat back pockets of B6? We don;t. Nor do we find them on other airlines. Must be lots of blue gloves going around.

As I mentioned above, other airlines aren't necessarily dirty, they are just older product. Sometimes what we think is dirt is only wear. I'm not justifying that wear is ok, its just a fact of aging aircraft. When your 2 kinds of aircraft start to get old, you'll see it too. No matter how hard you try to scrub, the dirt won't come off.

BTW, for all of you who are whinning about B6...please, feel free to fly another carrier. Our flights are full... I think that's a pretty unfortunate attitude given recent events and the state the brand is in right now. Pride goeth before a fall.

I think that's a pretty unfortunate attitude given recent events and the state the brand is in right now. Pride goeth before a fall.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an attitude prevalent amongst most of the JetBlue employees who post on this board.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an attitude prevalent amongst most of the JetBlue employees who post on this board.

Exactly. Again, we go back to the same issue. A good number of the people that work for JetBlue that I have encountered have a huge chip on their shoulders that JetBlue is the best thing since sliced bread. I am not a lemming at anything. I refuse to be told to believe something that I have empirically proven for myself to be false. If you are happy getting subpar service, treatment, etc., then go for it. I am all about free markets and competition. But, don't lecture me that I am wrong as to the way I feel about an airline because it supposedly brought the "dignity" back to travel. Please.

Exactly. Again, we go back to the same issue. A good number of the people that work for JetBlue that I have encountered have a huge chip on their shoulders that JetBlue is the best thing since sliced bread. I am not a lemming at anything. I refuse to be told to believe something that I have empirically proven for myself to be false. If you are happy getting subpar service, treatment, etc., then go for it. I am all about free markets and competition. But, don't lecture me that I am wrong as to the way I feel about an airline because it supposedly brought the "dignity" back to travel. Please.

I totally agree. What is it with these Jetblue employees that makes them think that they are G-d's gift to the world? The are FAs just like other FAs. Sure, they crack jokes sometimes, but besides that, whats the difference?

What is it with these Jetblue employees that makes them think that they are G-d's gift to the world?

I honestly can't understand how anyone could get that impression from reading this board. Employees at any start-up are naturally enthusiastic about the company and its prospects. They'd have to be stick-in-the-muds not to. But enthusiasm about your job in no way equates to conceit.

If you prefer employees who don't like their employers, you have many other airlines to choose from. And in my experience, it's those unhappy employees who are more likely to give customers poor service than an employee who enjoys his work. If you can't tolerate employees that like the company, use another company.

Likewise if you can't tolerate forum posters that like a company, go to another forum. There's one made especially for people who DISLIKE the service provided. It's called Travel Safety and Security. You can bash the TSA all day over there, and the other members will love you for it.

Each airline and each FF program has its own quirks, advantages, and disadvantages. One size does not fit all. You prefer apples, I prefer oranges. But sometimes I want an apple, so I'm glad that others keep the apple growers in business.

I honestly can't understand how anyone could get that impression from reading this board. Employees at any start-up are naturally enthusiastic about the company and its prospects. They'd have to be stick-in-the-muds not to. But enthusiasm about your job in no way equates to conceit.

If you prefer employees who don't like their employers, you have many other airlines to choose from. And in my experience, it's those unhappy employees who are more likely to give customers poor service than an employee who enjoys his work. If you can't tolerate employees that like the company, use another company.

Likewise if you can't tolerate forum posters that like a company, go to another forum. There's one made especially for people who DISLIKE the service provided. It's called Travel Safety and Security. You can bash the TSA all day over there, and the other members will love you for it.

Each airline and each FF program has its own quirks, advantages, and disadvantages. One size does not fit all. You prefer apples, I prefer oranges. But sometimes I want an apple, so I'm glad that others keep the apple growers in business.

Whats evident in the post above by flying4aliving is resounded by many Jetblue workers. I'm not bashing, I'm simply stating facts. I don't fly Jetblue often, only when its the only airline I can get on. I rarely fly coach, so its not really a problem for me.

Likewise if you can't tolerate forum posters that like a company, go to another forum. There's one made especially for people who DISLIKE the service provided. It's called Travel Safety and Security. You can bash the TSA all day over there, and the other members will love you for it.


Well said. I've never travelled with JetBlue but I enjoy reading about their progress. I don't understand why so many people come here simply to bash them.

I honestly can't understand how anyone could get that impression from reading this board. Employees at any start-up are naturally enthusiastic about the company and its prospects. They'd have to be stick-in-the-muds not to. But enthusiasm about your job in no way equates to conceit.

If you prefer employees who don't like their employers, you have many other airlines to choose from. And in my experience, it's those unhappy employees who are more likely to give customers poor service than an employee who enjoys his work. If you can't tolerate employees that like the company, use another company.

Likewise if you can't tolerate forum posters that like a company, go to another forum. There's one made especially for people who DISLIKE the service provided. It's called Travel Safety and Security. You can bash the TSA all day over there, and the other members will love you for it.

Each airline and each FF program has its own quirks, advantages, and disadvantages. One size does not fit all. You prefer apples, I prefer oranges. But sometimes I want an apple, so I'm glad that others keep the apple growers in business.

There is a difference between being enthusiastic and positive about your employer and being a fanatic to the point where you cannot objectively judge your employer's faults and shortcomings. I don't want sour people providing service on any flight I take, but I also don't want sugarcoated cheerleaders that gloss over legitimate issues that need to be addressed. Again, to each his own, clearly there are sufficient numbers of people that feel JetBlue provides adequate service, and so they will continue to fly them. I will not be one of them. I also don't fly SWA for the same reason. Everyone else thinks they are wonderful, I think it is a deplorable cattlecall. As was stated earlier by another poster, I don't fly coach much anyway, so JetBlue's product does nothing for me either. However, I will not get over the 10 hours I spent stuck on a JetBlue craft last year because of their selfishness and poor operations management.

No crewmember that posts on this forum ever stated or emplied that they blindly follow the company or declair we the best thing since sliced bread (pretty good invention). What we are doing here is sticking up for our company against some of these ridiculous posts. Take a look at some of the thread titles in this forum, like this one. Now go and look at the titles in the other forums. There is a noticable difference. It seems some people come in here with a chip on their shoulder and are looking at inciting a riot.

There are always people that are going to dislike a company. There is nothing that can be done about it. But there is a better way to voice your opinions and concerns and they way it has been done on this forum is only going to elicit the same responses from the crewmembers employeed at JetBlue.

This is the reason I see myself avoiding JetBlue in the future. I love JetBlue planes and I love their CS reps, but knowing that when other airlines have irregular opps, they can put you on another airline while JetBlue will say "Sorry, have your money back, lad. See what you can do for yourself." makes me think twice. Or more than twice. At the end of the day, I need to get from point A to point B and I need to be with an airline that can make that happen.

I second that. I really will try to avoid them especially during the winter months from now on...It's funny becuase I find that JB's fares are equal if not higher in many cases than....say CO or DL out of the same market....so the excuse of they cannot endorse their tickets to other airlines becuase of their "low fare structure" just doesnt add up to me. I am not a JB basher...I have flown them a number of times, and they are fine enough service wise. nothing too fantastic, but totally respectable...but the whole thing that happened the last two snow storms is enough to scare me off for awhile, I must admit. 34", TV, Terra Blues and all.

I remember once on CO, during Irreg. Ops....my flight was delayed out of EWR enough that I missed the last flight out at IAH to YYV that night. Continental, put me up in a hotel that night, gave me food vouchers, and put me on a UA flight the next day to get me to where I was going. These are the type of things that will gain my loyalty to a company. The TRUST that they will do whatever they can, reasonably, to accomodate me. CO, I'm sure lost money on that deal....but in the long run made it back in spades with my continued loyalty. Now, don't get me wrong, I have had bad experiences with CO, as with just about every airline for some reason or another....however, it comes down to a matter of trust to me...and B6 took a huge hit in this department to me and I'm sure with many other people the past few weeks.

Maybe I'm dense or just dont get airline economics.....but why is it that B6 cant do interline agreements? maybe they should reconsider and spend some of that $30M for the bill of rights for something, to me, more tangible.

I honestly can't understand how anyone could get that impression from reading this board. Employees at any start-up are naturally enthusiastic about the company and its prospects. They'd have to be stick-in-the-muds not to. But enthusiasm about your job in no way equates to conceit.



Unfortunately, for several of them that post on this forum, "enthusiasm" does, in fact, equal "conceit." They have gone on record telling certain posters, including myself, to take our business elsewhere. This is not "enthusiasm." This is called "driving business away."

They have no idea about the business/corporate accounts that many of us have. Some posters here could/might/did represent significant money to JetBlue.

I came here because I have had mostly positive, or neutral, experiences on JetBlue, but have noticed a gradual, if steady, deterioration in service and concern for the customer. Personally, I think their employees have started to believe the "hype" and think that people will continue to fly JetBlue no matter what. The latest meltdown drew me to this forum because, along with other earlier meltdowns, I saw it coming. I just had, from my experience, a feeling that the airline was running on "overdrive," outstripping its infrastucture, perhaps from overexpansion, and perhaps, in part, from arrogance.

All I know is that I have seen enough instances of JetBlue employees telling posters with criticisms to go fly another airline. If JetBlue does not want my business, there are plenty of airlines that do.

And, despite what some JetBlue employees on this forum like to think, I am a passenger that pretty much deals calmly with any situation. I always comply with crew/employee instructions, because I realize that dealing with the public is a hard job. I'm a customer who rarely complains, but I'm also a customer that never comes back beyond a certain point. I suppose that would make the JetBlue employees on here very happy, since I have been "invited" not to spend my money on their airline.

They have gone on record telling certain posters, including myself, to take our business elsewhere. This is not "enthusiasm." This is called "driving business away."

I share your perception that such posts are more common on this forum than elsewhere on FT. It remains a fact, however, that LCCs do business differently than legacy carriers, and that passengers expecting a legacy-like experience (e.g., they get upgrades all the time as a top-tier elite member) are bound to be disappointed by JetBlue.

You've probably heard the term "firing the customer". There are some customers who end up costing a company money in price concessions or other coddling. Customers who crave upgrades and pampering probably belong in that category for JetBlue. They definitely do for Southwest.

Does any of this excuse impolite behavior toward customers here? Not in my book. But I understand the reason: JetBlue is fighting for its life. Employees at a financially secure airline like Southwest are naturally going to be more calm overall.

What would it take for B6 to win more business from FTers? Simple: a much more generous FF program. But that's a subject for another thread.

I share your perception that such posts are more common on this forum than elsewhere on FT. It remains a fact, however, that LCCs do business differently than legacy carriers, and that passengers expecting a legacy-like experience (e.g., they get upgrades all the time as a top-tier elite member) are bound to be disappointed by JetBlue.

You've probably heard the term "firing the customer". There are some customers who end up costing a company money in price concessions or other coddling. Customers who crave upgrades and pampering probably belong in that category for JetBlue. They definitely do for Southwest.

Does any of this excuse impolite behavior toward customers here? Not in my book. But I understand the reason: JetBlue is fighting for its life. Employees at a financially secure airline like Southwest are naturally going to be more calm overall.

What would it take for B6 to win more business from FTers? Simple: a much more generous FF program. But that's a subject for another thread.

Well put - I guess it comes down to the same formula in every business: Revenue - Expenses = Profit/Loss. B6 has choose to offer more legroom, free inflight TV and a somewhat egalitarian LCC type product in terms of fulfilling special needs - be it interlined baggage, re-accommodating pax on other carriers, elite boarding, etc.

I think the "Fire the Customer" analogy in this case might be correct. B6 does not have the organization to deal with "high-touch" fliers even in difficult situations. Of course, they don't charge $1500 Y from NYC to DFW where for that type of money, one could be easily disgruntled with poor service and no meals.

I came here because I have had mostly positive, or neutral, experiences on JetBlue, but have noticed a gradual, if steady, deterioration in service and concern for the customer. Personally, I think their employees have started to believe the "hype" and think that people will continue to fly JetBlue no matter what.

This has been my experience, too. And quite honestly, the planes ARE often dirty (I always find CO planes cleaner), and the attitude of the employees has been worse than anything I have encountered at US. And despite going through the motions, most crewmembers I encounter seem to think that simply following the rulebook is enough work to create a positive customer experience that will generate more business. It never is, in any industry.

I guess what it comes down to is this: Some B6 employee on this board is likely to bash this post, and or strike back with "well, if you have a complaint, you should fill out an e-mail form or call the customer service line." Either reponse is invalid.

Rather than arguing with people you perceive to be "always negative" or "out to bad mouth you", its time to take a good look at what you do, and take it to heart. Do a better job. Instead of simply being the crewmember who puts the blue gloves on for show, actually bother to do some cleaning the cabin. Instead of chatting incessantly with your fellow crewmates during a redeye flight, consider loweing your voice level. Don't wait for me to fill out a comment card. Odds are I won't, and I will just take my business elsewhere. By the time you get to a comment card, you've likely already lost business.

If B6 employees are so insistent there is no truth in the negative feedback they here, they should just be content and move on rather than antagonizing the situation. Of course, the reality is that they should probably find some truth in the negative feedback, even from customers who have been loyal (like me).

I mostly agree with what BAM BAM and defiance have said. It seems, to me at least, that there has been a drop in the customer service department. I personally thing that company moral is continuing to drop, it was a rough road last year for the crewmembers and the past month has not helped boost our confidence. Everything seemed to happen all at once, especially to the flight attendants, and that really angered many. It is most previlant as you stroll through JFK. I know many many flight attendants that have JFK on their avoid list because of the attitudes of many of the crews there. It's as if they don't care any more and they take it out on the customers and that is really unfortunate. I'm hoping management pulls the moral up out of the gutter otherwise i believe our customer service will continue to suffer as you guys have already seen.