JetBlue TrueBlue - CoC Not Acceptable For Business Travelers (in my opinion)

I have now reviewed the full CoC which has been updated to include the new Passenger Bill of Rights.

Frankly, prior to the recent problems, I had never reviewed the JetBlue CoC. Having now done so I was shocked to realize that you are unable to cancel a reservation, with full refund (not a voucher, not a service charge), if B6 says that the flight will be substantially delayed. That, in combination with the lack of interline agreements, just doesn't work for me.

Example 1 (regular airline): I want to travel from LA to NY on Tuesday for an event (business or personal) on Wednesday morning. I have a reservation on the 1pm flight on xxxxxx. I check the computer and I find that their 1pm flight will be delayed by 2+ hours. I have 3 main options. A) Wait for the flight. B) Obtain a full refund, without any penalty, and book a reservation on another airline so that I can arrive before my event. C) Request that they endorse my reservation to one of the other 5+ airlines which fly from LA to NY so that I can arrive near my original schedule.

Exampe 2 (B6): Same scenario. My only option is A, wait for the flight, even if it will be operated 8-10 hours later than scheduled. And I will get a voucher for a nominal amount (less than the cost of the cancellation penalty on the hotel room that I won't be visiting in NY after my involuntary red-eye flight).

In general, I don't think I will make that choice.

During irops, I recall jetBlue always offering a FULL refund to your credit card. This is announced in the PR before a storm arrives, advising customers of their rebooking/refund options. This does not apply to "delays" but rather to major service disruptions including lengthy delays and cancellations.

Example A #2, I dont know of any airline that will refund a non-refundable tkt. Nor does #3 always come into play as they arent too swift in FIMing anyone to anyone else.

2ndly in the NY-LA mkt its basically AA or JB from JFK and CO from EWR. Everyone else who has a non-stop its like maybe 2 flights a day.

A better example would be the NY-Chicago mkt where they are more players with alot of flights from JFK,LGA,EWR and then some.

Ov ehad to be FIMed in the past and Boy till you get them to do it, forget about it it almost pays either to Wait or forget about going at all, thats on a non-refundable, with a Fully Refundable theres not much they can do as you can simply send it in at any time for a Full refund and walk up and buy a SSSS tkt on anyone with a seat.

Example A #2, I dont know of any airline that will refund a non-refundable tkt. Nor does #3 always come into play as they arent too swift in FIMing anyone to anyone else.

2ndly in the NY-LA mkt its basically AA or JB from JFK and CO from EWR. Everyone else who has a non-stop its like maybe 2 flights a day.

Both of the quoted statements are wrong, based on my experience and the information set forth below.

1. Most (all?) domestic non-LCC airlines will refund a non-refundable ticket if they fail to operate as scheduled. I have done it (the flight to NY was going to be about 2 hours late). For example, the AA CoC states:

In the event the refund is required because of American's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -

If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or If the ticket is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment(s).


I agree that FIM isn't common, but I have done it many times. It helps if you: a) are a good customer; b) if you know about flying.

2. You are mistaken about the frequency of flights from LA to NY. Even looking at only non-stop service, AA has 10+, UA has about 8, DL has about 5, CO has about 8. If you include connecting service (which is still better than waiting for multiple hours for a delayed flight), then you have at least 4 other airlines to choose from, and dozens of additional flights among the airlines I have listed.

Both of the quoted statements are wrong, based on my experience and the information set forth below.

1. Most (all?) domestic non-LCC airlines will refund a non-refundable ticket if they fail to operate as scheduled. I have done it (the flight to NY was going to be about 2 hours late). For example, the AA CoC states:

In the event the refund is required because of American's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -

If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or If the ticket is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment(s).


I agree that FIM isn't common, but I have done it many times. It helps if you: a) are a good customer; b) if you know about flying.

2. You are mistaken about the frequency of flights from LA to NY. Even looking at only non-stop service, AA has 10+, UA has about 8, DL has about 5, CO has about 8. If you include connecting service (which is still better than waiting for multiple hours for a delayed flight), then you have at least 4 other airlines to choose from, and dozens of additional flights among the airlines I have listed.

I had AA refund me a non-refundable back in Jan when DFW was going thru their Ice storms. I was gonna drive down to PHL since it was $188 r/t while LGA or EWR were closer to $400. AA cancelled my flight they wanted and did rebook me for a flight that night I was booked for alate morning. They after some arm twisting agreed to let me leave from EWR or LGA but at first wouldnt let me return to that same Airport. They called me back and said I can change to leave and return to either EWR or LGA but upon checking told me EWR was cancelled as well. In the end I asked for afull refund as even LGA wouldnt go and by the time they could get me there it would be too late. LGA was also eventually cancelled and my return flights as well.

Yes I got the full amount as 1 a full refund to my CC and another voucher since I used 1 as partial payment. But it wasnt as simple as you made it out to be. they really wanted me to fly out later in the day, even thou I kept telling them if they cant guarantee that I will get to DFW by---, that it will be a trip in vain for me. Im sure had it simply been a factor with my flight out of PHL alone that it would have been much tougher to get the whole thing refunded as I was able to. Dont know if being a 2MM helped me in any way.

As for flights to LA, since CO goes out of EWR along with 2 for AA and 1 for UA I dont consider that as NY. I was looking at JFK alone, where AA and JB are the Major players. I havent checked in a few months but DL was down to 3 and I think UA too. Just checked its 7 for UA and 4 for DL. Still I feel it belongs to AA & JB although JB is BUR & LGB.

Are ALL of JBs tkts so called Non-refundable, after all once the cheap ones are gone I find that JB can be alot more then another Carrier. I agree that with no interlining with JB it can result in problems. But I really dont see AA or UA simply giving a refund on a non-refundable if the problem lies with that 1 flight and they have another flight going out within a reasonable time. If one is on a Full Fare then one will be treated differently. I feel its really a case of YMMV

Both of the quoted statements are wrong, based on my experience and the information set forth below.

1. Most (all?) domestic non-LCC airlines will refund a non-refundable ticket if they fail to operate as scheduled. I have done it (the flight to NY was going to be about 2 hours late). For example, the AA CoC states:

[INDENT]In the event the refund is required because of American's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -

If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or If the ticket is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment(s).



That's been my experience, as well, with AA, without any hassles or problems. IMHO, AA is the best at handling irregular ops.

That's been my experience, as well, with AA, without any hassles or problems. IMHO, AA is the best at handling irregular ops.

I don't have much experience on AA, but UA also gives refunds if you're significantly delayed (at least for 1Ks, I'm not sure about GMs) and will endorse you over to other airlines, often AA on my routes :), during irops.

This is one area where the legacies definitely have a leg-up on B6, for business travelers.

"Endorsing a ticket" to another airline essentially means that carrier A buys you a full-fare ticket on carrier B. The negotiated interline rates between legacies are very, very high (usually the full Y fare) so it costs big time to use rule 120.20 and endorse your ticket over. Think $800+ per person billed to the airline for a short flight.

Even with the absence of official interline agreements, however, I'd think a B6 general manager at an outstation could always write a company check to another airline if they want to reroute passengers (instead of printing a flight coupon or a FIM as other carriers would do). It's just a matter of cost, however, as last-minute tickets on that other airline are likely to be expensive!

"Endorsing a ticket" to another airline essentially means that carrier A buys you a full-fare ticket on carrier B. The negotiated interline rates between legacies are very, very high (usually the full Y fare) so it costs big time to use rule 120.20 and endorse your ticket over. Think $800+ per person billed to the airline for a short flight.

Is that right?

If so, then why do the airlines only endorse to other airlines that they have agreements with? For example, they never endorse to Southwest, but any computer with an internet connection can go to iflyswa.com and puchase a ticket on a WN flight...

If it is basically buying a Full Y ticket, why even have the endorsement process? Why don't the agents just say "Sorry we screwed up; here is your new reservation code and one-way ticket number; go to Carrier B's gate and check in there..."?

Put another way: why does it matter that JetBlue doesn't interline when all of the airlines have to basically buy Full-Y when interlining anyone? United would be just as unlikely, IMHO, to endorse someone over to Usair(@FullY) as JetBlue would be to buy a Usair ticket outright(@FullY), yes?

"Endorsing a ticket" to another airline essentially means that carrier A buys you a full-fare ticket on carrier B. The negotiated interline rates between legacies are very, very high (usually the full Y fare) so it costs big time to use rule 120.20 and endorse your ticket over. Think $800+ per person billed to the airline for a short flight.

Even with the absence of official interline agreements, however, I'd think a B6 general manager at an outstation could always write a company check to another airline if they want to reroute passengers (instead of printing a flight coupon or a FIM as other carriers would do). It's just a matter of cost, however, as last-minute tickets on that other airline are likely to be expensive!

Ding dong, you're wrong!

Under SIPP (Standard Interline Passenger Procedures) 120.20, which is a procedure agreed to by members of ATA (Air Transport Association), the airline receiving the endorsing airline's flight coupon is paid the face value of the coupon. All the endorsing carrier is out is the value on that portion of the ticket. So it doesn't really cost them anything to endorse a ticket over to another airline that is an ATA member airline and with whom they have an interline ticketing agreement.

I'm sure this has been addressed many times before. Do a search on both Rule 240 and SIPP 120.20, or the international equivalant IATA resolution 735d.

Ding dong, you're wrong!

Under SIPP (Standard Interline Passenger Procedures) 120.20, which is a procedure agreed to by members of ATA (Air Transport Association), the airline receiving the endorsing airline's flight coupon is paid the face value of the coupon. All the endorsing carrier is out is the value on that portion of the ticket. So it doesn't really cost them anything to endorse a ticket over to another airline that is an ATA member airline and with whom they have an interline ticketing agreement.

I'm sure this has been addressed many times before. Do a search on both Rule 240 and SIPP 120.20, or the international equivalant IATA resolution 735d.



Now that makes sense. But some airlines still don't want to give up the revenue with the interline, even if it means their passengers suffer.