European Rail Travel - German Rail Pass Explained

People frequently ask about using a rail pass, and whether point-to-point individual tickets might be a better deal for a given travel need.

I'll provide the example of my upcoming trip in mid-March, where I have acquired a 5-day German Rail 1st Class pass costing US$337, sent to me Fedex in 2 days at no shipping cost (a 2nd class pass is also available).

Here are 4 route segments I plan to take and their regular point-to-point fares as obtained from the DB website:

Frankfurt Airport-Berlin: E 165 (1st Class/ICE)
Berlin-Dresden: E 53 (1st Class/Eurocity; ICE would be more)
Dresden-Munich: E 146 (1st Class/ICE)
Munich-Frankfurt Airport: E 128 (1st Class/ICE)

These 4 trips alone add up to 492 Euros, which is about US$650 at current exchange rates, so my rail pass saves me about 50%.

I will be getting additional benefits, however, as I have one more day which I will use to travel Munich-Nuernberg-Regensburg-Munich. And, on the days that I select to use the pass, I will have free use of the S-Bahn system in Munich, which saves a bit more money (S-Bahns are covered by rail passes if they are operated by DB, which is most of them). These are local trains that can substitute for a subway or elevated transit service (locally-operated transit services are not included in the pass). So, for me, the pass goes from being a great value to a fantastic value.

Individual walk-up rail tickets, especially of the 1st class type, tend to be expensive on DB (1st class is generally priced at 150% of 2nd, or what Americans or the British might call standard, or coach, class). DB has some yield-managed fares for advance purchase that are cheaper, and weekend regional tickets for unlimited travel for small groups are a great deal, but they are valid only on regional and local trains and only in 2nd class.

The story will vary in other European countries, but in general there will be similarities. For example, in Paris, rail passes are valid on commuter trains (RER), including the one to Versailles. The trick is that a "flexipass" can only be used on the travel days selected, whereas the original-type Eurail pass was for unlimited travel over a certain number of weeks.

Some people might want to fly on the longer segments I have identified, but I don't have that desire, so for me the rail pass is usually a good deal. To the extent one only needs rail for shorter distances, the value of the rail pass will not be as great.

But, once you have one, all the additional rail travel you can do within the time allotted will be free, so the value of the pass just keeps getting better. And, for people travelling together, the German Rail Twinpass offers a discount over buying 2 individual passes.

I've done a couple second-class German Rail passes before and have always got my money's worth. They'll also allow you to go over to Salzburg, Austria, on a German Rail pass, without any extra charge.

I used an Austrian pass in January and got $330 worth of trips on a $200 flexipass. Haven't plotted out my February trip to Switzerland ($264 for 8 day pass) but I'm sure I would have spent substantially more than that, as I was out on the trains every day and had 4-6 hour trips a couple times, and it included local transit in Lausanne and Zurich that I did use. The Swiss pass gives free admission to museums, and that saved me about $30 for the two I did visit (one being the Olympic Museum in Lausanne).

I had a recent ICE 1st experience Cologne-Brussels South-Cologne. Had a a very reasonable Sparpreis ticket and single seat plus proper desk reservations in both directions.

The Friday trip Cologne-Brussels was rather enjoyable. Had maybe twenty minutes in the spartan DB lounge, reading the pinkish FT and the FAZ and sipping on an apple juice. Afterwards the journey from Cologne to the European capital was softened by some Nuernberg Bratwurst & potato salad and Spanish red wine delivered to my seat.

A big thumbs up also for proper reclining seats in DB 1st. Minuses primarily include the unfinished high-speed track between Aachen-Liege, these guys have already working on this stretch for some seven years or so, when are you going to get to job done?

Brussels-Cologne was very poor from the service point of view, luckily I had a gem of a German retired professor sitting opposite, his knowledge of French literature and Belgian society was impeccable and immensely fascinating.

Conclusion: As a 1st traveller do ask your service personnell for benefits. They are rather proud of their jobs and will do their best to accomodate you. Don't travel second if not necessary, it's really not nice.

German rail will allow you to book fares at 50% in some cases (called sparpreis) but those are fixed absolute trains and times. Such a railpass offers you better flexibility.

I myself use a so called bahncard with 50% off which costs me 206 Euro per year (first is double) but has the benefit of allowing me the flexibility of travelling around - then again, I do live in Germany.

Please note that in case of 1st class travel, you do have access in some few cities to a so called db lounge (probably nothing to call home about, but maybe interesting).

While it sounds a bit stupid to travel by trains, there are some nice routes and comparing the time for reaching an airport and alike, train travel is preferable. Especially when you are in 1st class ;)

For those of you wondering: Yes, 2nd class is not bad either, if you do choose to travel in there though you should make seating arragement and reservations which can be done online (register for an account, per reservation 3 euro). On longer routes this may save you a nice seat.

German rail will allow you to book fares at 50% in some cases (called sparpreis) but those are fixed absolute trains and times. Such a railpass offers you better flexibility.

I myself use a so called bahncard with 50% off which costs me 206 Euro per year (first is double) but has the benefit of allowing me the flexibility of travelling around - then again, I do live in Germany.

Please note that in case of 1st class travel, you do have access in some few cities to a so called db lounge (probably nothing to call home about, but maybe interesting).

While it sounds a bit stupid to travel by trains, there are some nice routes and comparing the time for reaching an airport and alike, train travel is preferable. Especially when you are in 1st class ;)

For those of you wondering: Yes, 2nd class is not bad either, if you do choose to travel in there though you should make seating arragement and reservations which can be done online (register for an account, per reservation 3 euro). On longer routes this may save you a nice seat.

One advantage to purchasing point-to-point tickets in 1st class is the access to the DB 1st class lounges. I was told, upon presenting my 1st class rail pass at Hamburg, that I needed a "real 1st class ticket" for admission, and this view was later confirmed by a DB bureaucrat. For the record, the lounge attendant allowed me to enter "her lounge" on a one-time basis as an "exception".

Good to clarify that! You can always try but then again, only a very few towns in Germany do have them and then you will most of the time arrive on time to board with the trains so you will probably not need them anyhow. :)

[I am working on their bahn bonus program to get access. Yes, how can I resist ...]

Cologne - Brussels or Paris can be had last minute (within 1 week of travel) on THALYS for as low as 30 Euros oneway in First Class, too ! The advantage of THALYS over ICE on the route to Brussels is that drinks and sometimes a meal is complimentary whereas it isn't on ICE.

One advantage to purchasing point-to-point tickets in 1st class is the access to the DB 1st class lounges. I was told, upon presenting my 1st class rail pass at Hamburg, that I needed a "real 1st class ticket" for admission, and this view was later confirmed by a DB bureaucrat. For the record, the lounge attendant allowed me to enter "her lounge" on a one-time basis as an "exception".

I can confirm this as I have been "denied entry" to 1st DB lounges in Frankfurt Airport and Koln on at least two differerent occassions when attempting to enter using a 1st Class Eurosaver Ticket...the type I had was for three countries: Austria (no such restrictions) Switzerland (I do not know, did not have time to look for lounges), and Germany.

Perhaps someone can post why restrictions apply in Germany if anything other than a change over the years in the DB policy.

I guess it's a space thing. When I used the DB Cologne lounge it was almost completely full despite offering only soft drinks, newspapers and paid wifi.

Anyway, the main benefits on DB 1st in my eyes are the single reclining seat & broad desk option for working (reservation recommended), the relative peace (in the "quiet zones") and the at-seat service.

I agree: First is worth the difference if the time on the train is significant...and I think it is worth difference even if the time is rather brief.
Of course, I usually purchase some sort of rail pass based on the countries I will be traveling in and the number of days I will be using the train systems.

Oh yes, hardily agree on the "reservation recommended" point basis my most recent experience of mid-Dec. All trains I was on were quite crowded in First.

Cheers

[QUOTE=mosburger;7359780]I guess it's a space thing. When I used the DB Cologne lounge it was almost completely full despite offering only soft drinks, newspapers and paid wifi.

mosburger, it has been 18 months since I was in the Koln DB lounge. At that time, I remember ordering goulash soup. Of course there was a charge for the food. Do you recall if you could order any snacks when you were there much more recently than myself? Ops, remember that I was there but was not admitted this past December so I do not know about what if any food is available of late.

Just to frame the mindset a bit - Trains in Germany are quite different to what I experienced in the states. ;)

Using the train is a frequent thing here and preferable in many ways over flying. ;)

You will have on bigger train stations on every plattform available little spaces where you can sit in protection of the weather, most trainstations have a little mall attached which openes until 22:00.

Big cities like Hamburg / Berlin / Munich and alike have enough food venues to choose from.

Just the smaller towns may only have open a store with magazines.
Usually around the train station are little pubs and something like this and you should always find a cab waiting.

Germans do get in time to the trainstation, as most trains do depart on time which is why there is no real need for the lounges in essence. ;))

[QUOTE=mosburger;7359780]I guess it's a space thing. When I used the DB Cologne lounge it was almost completely full despite offering only soft drinks, newspapers and paid wifi.

mosburger, it has been 18 months since I was in the Koln DB lounge. At that time, I remember ordering goulash soup. Of course there was a charge for the food. Do you recall if you could order any snacks when you were there much more recently than myself? Ops, remember that I was there but was not admitted this past December so I do not know about what if any food is available of late.

No food offerings at all if I recall correctly maybe apart from a few chocolate bars or such. According to the DB website the snack service is now on trial at the Berlin and Hamburg lounges only. That route should also have expanded 1st service as part of the same trial.

Gosh, mosburger, I cannot reconcile the DB announcement of trial service and the experience a party of three of us enjoyed more than a year ago. Could they perhaps offered the service at some point, canceled it, and are now considering resurrecting it?

At any rate, thanks for the info....I should have checked the web site.

Cheers

I agree, the German Rail passes (and Eurail variants) can be a great deal. The cheapest prices on DB require advanced planning, weekend stays, etc. The rail pass offers flexible and spontaneous travel as well as significant cost savings. A great deal! (On my last rail pass, I 'saved' about €800 over point-to-point tickets (though I'm sure that if I were paying cash for each ticket I would have made different choices, like taking the S-Bahn from Frankfurt to the airport instead of the ICE!).

What's the difference between 1st and 2nd class on German ICE trains? I will be traveling from Frankfurt to Munich RT. I thought about buying a rail pass, but I don't plan on taking additional trains other than that RT, so I don't think I should get the pass. What do you think?

LAX

1st class offers 2 and 1 seating, while seating in 2nd is 2 and 2 (in the big, open coach similar to American trains, but there are also compartments with 5 seats in 1st vs. 6 in 2nd).

2nd class tends to be more crowded, but this may not be a concern if you purchase a seat reservation.

With a pass, and traveling singly, I will never get a reservation, thus saving about E 3.50 per segment.

Here are couple of examples of when 1st class is better:

Traveling on the evening of the end of a holiday weekend, I found 1st class to be sparsely occupied, perhaps 50%, due to the absence of business travelers, while in the adjoining 2nd class, people were sitting in the aisles and vestibules. At least one person in 1st upgraded his 2nd class ticket on board to avoid the crowds. On German trains, ICE reservations are almost never required (except on the ICE Sprinters...the nonstop trains between Frankfurt and Berlin twice daily each way), but are an option (except at the last minute). Some people prefer the flexibility of going without a seat reservation because that allows them to board any train rather than a particular run.

The same was true when I traveled Munich-Frankfurt Airport on Saturday 3/17. 1st had lots of room, while 2nd was quite busy (maybe 20 percent occupancy and 90 percent, respectively).

On weekdays, 1st class will be much busier due to business travelers.

So, I would say, if you get a seat res. in 2nd class you should be OK.

You can reserve (in ICE and I think some others as well) with or without table. And note that there are smoling and non smoking coaches.

in first, afaik you will always have at place ordering instead of having to go to the bar wagon and iirc always a power plug.

I am likely to upgrade my bahncard 50 (always get 50% off but stay flexible) due to some overcrowded experiences in second though it will cost me 200 euros. still struggeling on that. ;)

but coming back from cebit I had to stay for 1,5 hours in the restaurant waggon due to no place available. Given, I had no reservation and did not bother to go throguh every waggon, but even then first was crowded. ;)

Take a look at the difference and if you do not find it too much and you do a bit more travelling, go for first.

But if not, second is really not that bad especially when you go on an ICe.

Second also has in some trains radio / music on every place.

Are the German Rail Passes good for night trains in sleeper cars? TIA.

LAX

Are the German Rail Passes good for night trains in sleeper cars? TIA.

LAX

This is more complicated. Passes are definitely not valid for the sleeping accommodation part of the cost. Traditionally, the pass was valid in a standard coach only, and virtually all overnight trains no longer haul 1st class coaches (just 2nd). Space in a couchette (German: Liegewagen) or sleeper was extra, in the latter depending on how many people shared the room.

Some of the newer overnight train concepts involve something known as global pricing, where one price covers everything (rather than the sleeper charge being an add-on). Here, it is my experience that a rail pass will get you a discount, but that no travel is completely free, whether in sleeper, couchette, or reclining seat car.

Sleepers, especially those for single occupancy, tend to be pricey, although less so in southern Europe. A good way to cut the cost was to offer to share, as in a double...and then to hope that no one else was booked in the compartment...essentially a 50% savings. Couchettes are more cramped, but are also more of a bargain.

Sleepers, especially those for single occupancy, tend to be pricey, although less so in southern Europe. A good way to cut the cost was to offer to share, as in a double...and then to hope that no one else was booked in the compartment...essentially a 50% savings. Couchettes are more cramped, but are also more of a bargain.It's true that sleeper compartments in southern Europe can be much more reasonable. But how does one offer to "share" if booking online?

I find that couchettes are really only better than seats in that one can be horizontal; I never get more than the odd couple of minutes of sleep in one. Others dont seem to have this problem, if snoring is any indication.

My daughter (age 16) and I have this itinerary. So far as I can see, a 4-day German Twin Rail Pass is the best option (this costs $406 CAD total through an agency, which is about 262 Euros).

August 15, Cologne to Hamburg (we can't set a definite time for this, due to the usual uncertainty as to flight arrival) - Day1 of Pass
August 16, Hamburg to Copenhagen (probably in the evening, we could set a time for this, but would prefer not to). I know that we'd have to pay for the Puttgarden to Copenhagen part of the journey separately. Day 2 of Pass
August 20, Copenhagen-Berlin on EasyJet - no rail involved
August 22, Daytrip to Dresden (could be 21, 22, or 23) - Day 3 of Pass
August 24, Berlin to Cologne by train, Day 4 of Pass

Any options other than the twin rail pass that would work better?

My daughter (age 16) and I have this itinerary. So far as I can see, a 4-day German Twin Rail Pass is the best option (this costs $406 CAD total through an agency, which is about 262 Euros).

August 15, Cologne to Hamburg (we can't set a definite time for this, due to the usual uncertainty as to flight arrival) - Day1 of Pass
August 16, Hamburg to Copenhagen (probably in the evening, we could set a time for this, but would prefer not to). I know that we'd have to pay for the Puttgarden to Copenhagen part of the journey separately. Day 2 of Pass
August 20, Copenhagen-Berlin on EasyJet - no rail involved
August 22, Daytrip to Dresden (could be 21, 22, or 23) - Day 3 of Pass
August 24, Berlin to Cologne by train, Day 4 of Pass

Any options other than the twin rail pass that would work better?

Wait! These passes do not need to be used on consecutive days?! Also, does one day count as one calendar day or one 24-hour period? TIA.

LAX

Wait! These passes do not need to be used on consecutive days?! Also, does one day count as one calendar day or one 24-hour period? TIA.

LAX

Here's my understanding - it's 4 days in one month, and it's a calendar day subject to this exception: "If an overnight train starts after 7pm on a validated Eurail Select Pass, the passholder must enter the next day's date on the pass, provided it falls within the validity of the pass."

Can anyone confirm that children under 6 are free when travelling with parents who have German rail passes? I will be travelling in Germany this summer with my family, and plan on buying a 1st class twin pass for my wife and I, and a half-price pass for my 6 year old daughter. There is no price mentioned for children under 6 in the German Rail Pass pricing info I've read, so I assume that my 4 year old son will be able to travel for free?

Can anyone confirm that children under 6 are free when travelling with parents who have German rail passes? I will be travelling in Germany this summer with my family, and plan on buying a 1st class twin pass for my wife and I, and a half-price pass for my 6 year old daughter. There is no price mentioned for children under 6 in the German Rail Pass pricing info I've read, so I assume that my 4 year old son will be able to travel for free?
From http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/germany.htm I think children under 6 travel free with an adult with an individual ticket ticket, but that kids from 6 to 11 need their own rail pass if their parents are traveling on passes instead of point to point tickets. 5 and under are free when traveling with a pass holding parent. So it lookis like you've got the right plan. Please note, the source for my info is Rick Steves, not DB, so please verify before travel!

Where should I order a German Railpass from? Are there sites that offer discounts off from what the DB site offers? TIA.

LAX

I ordered two this year from RailEurope. They had some type of deal back then to waive shipping fees if you bought two or more, so you might see if they have any promos on their web site. I have also ordered in the past from the RickSteves website. His site has offered free DVDs or videos with some rail passes in the past, so check what might be on offer there, too. Either works, and delivery is usually FedEx within a couple days.

Where should I order a German Railpass from? Are there sites that offer discounts off from what the DB site offers? TIA.

LAX

Many travel agents can issue a rail pass. Here is the one I use that offers free shipping for orders over a certain amount (I think around $250). That saves the $10 or so fee for Fed Ex shipping, which seems to be the standard approach for sending the pass out. You can find them on the Internet. Raileurope and Rick Steves both appear to charge a shipping fee for any order. Typically, when I place an order for a rail pass, I will have it in hand within 1 or 2 business days.

Euro Railways Inc.
1611 NW 91st Ave # 321
33071 - Coral Springs – FL

http://www.eurorailways.com/

I would reconsider it. The railpass is no bargain for your short distance travels knowing that the Putgarden to Copenhagen portion is about 68 Euro each. Furthermore, you could make more of your stay.

Through ticket from Cologne to Copenhagen (stopover in Hamburg is allowed) is 130 Euro each. Berlin to Dresden is 68 Euro each return (or 34 o/w). You might want to play around on Bahn.de. These fares are normal fares, not discounted. You may expect discounted fares in early summer. And for Berlin to Cologne I would conveniently fly either on Lufthansa for 68 Euro or on Air Berlin for 29 Euro on the day you proposed. In the end you pay the same price as on the railpass even with regular tickets but avoid the pretty long journey from Berlin into Cologne Airport.

You SHOULD (mandatorily) consider to stay the last night of your stay in Dresden, it is absolutely wonderful on summer evenings and fly back on Air Berlin to DUS for as little as 29 or 50 Euro or LH for 68 Euro (with a 40 minute extra train ride for 15 Euro to Cologne Airport). This could be much more rewarding than going down to Dresden just for the day.

By the way: What devil makes you flying Easyjet on the CPH-SFX (Berlin Schönefeld) route??? They take you into Berlin Schönefeld far outside the city. Air Berlin offers real onboard service for 49 Euro and they fly you into TXL Berlin Tegel.

EasyJet has a flight at 21:25 which is most convenient for our schedule. I haven't minded using SXF instead of TXL in the past - it takes about 2 minutes to get out of SXF in my experience and the extra 20 minutes or so to get into Berlin won't kill us. At the time I bought the ticket, there weren't any other convenient night-time options (not sure about now).

For the Puttgarden to Copenhagen tickets, I did some searches using dates as far as possible in the future and so far found the cheapest price I can get is 85 Euros for the two of us at a saver price on Bahn.de.

I agree staying in Dresden sounds like a good idea - not sure I want to add another short stay though (we have them before and after this part of the trip). I'll have to consider adding more flights to the itinerary.

Also, we wouldn't go straight from Berlin to CGN - I definitely want to stop in Cologne again for another visit to the cathedral and the excellent modern art museum.

The late flight makes sense. I can only strongly recommend to stay that night in Dresden. You will never forget the scenery. Last summer they had plenty of open air festival and cinema at the banks of the Elbe. I was located in DUS and we twice took the opportunity to fly over from DUS to DRS just for the evening

Train from Berlin down to Dresden is about two hours and something. So going down and back again will be quite a journey. Dresden Airport is very convenient and small, when staying at a downtown hotel you need less than 20 minutes by cab (about 18 Euro) to the airport, leaving downtown 1.10 hour before departure is sufficient. When arriving at DUS you will have a choice of several trains per hour to downtown Cologne which will need 40 minutes or so.

Doing it that way round might save you quite a lot of travelling. It is more or less the choice between doing Dresden - Berlin - Cologne by train, which is a travel time of about 7:00 hours or Dresden - Duesseldorf - Cologne by plane and train which brings it down to about 3:00 hours and the flight would cost you about the same as the return by train from Dresden to Berlin.

Ah, yes, but planes are so boring.

I never take a plane within Europe if I can avoid it. Last summer, I traveled from Venice to Berlin (14 hours) and the time went by "just like that". I even had an 83-year old travel companion (aka mom) and there was no complaint. And there is a lot to be said for seeing the people and the countryside, whether in Italy, crossing the Alps, entering the Munich area, or traversing the Thuringer Forest. It's TRAVEL, not mere transport. And the further you travel on the train, the cheaper it becomes (that's the point of this thread).

It's also possible to avoid going to Europe at all, and just read up on museum collections in a book or on line. It's certainly easier and more cost-effective, and with the time you save you can paint your garage or something. But it's not the same as actually going there.

It's also possible to avoid going to Europe at all.

:D

Difficult, if you live in Europe. But I understand your point. Some US friends had doubts about my mental health when I told them I would go on a journey by train across the US. But if you have this scenery more or less every day.....

By the way: Neither Berlin to Dresden nor Berlin to Cologne are "scenic" routes and WillTravel does not plan a "typical" railpass trip...

:D

Difficult, if you live in Europe. But I understand your point. Some US friends had doubts about my mental health when I told them I would go on a journey by train across the US. But if you have this scenery more or less every day.....

By the way: Neither Berlin to Dresden nor Berlin to Cologne are "scenic" routes and WillTravel does not plan a "typical" railpass trip...

I have been on both routes, and while they are not scenic in the conventional sense (mountains, rivers, etc.), for a traveler that doesn't travel the route often I would consider them to be worthy of looking out of the windows.

Some US friends had doubts about my mental health when I told them I would go on a journey by train across the US. But if you have this scenery more or less every day......I wouldn't doubt your mental health for having such a plan, but I'd know you hadn't spent much time on Amtrak!

Sadly, cross-country rail travel in the U.S. really isn't practical; the trains are very slow and unreliable. We have plenty of great scenery; in some places you pass very scenic areas on the train in the U.S. In urban areas though, the train often passes through the very poorest sections. The train can be good for certain specific trips (like anywhere between Washington D.C. and Boston or for scenery between Denver and Salt Lake City), but in general it is an unattractive option.

I bought my rail pass - made my reservations - and got back confirmations which look like this. Anyone have a clue what it means? Robyn

The following reservations have already been made and paid for:
================================================== ==============================
02.06.2007 InterCityExpress 1509 , Berlin Hbf (ab 10:57) - 7,00 EUR
Muenchen Hbf, 1.Kl., 2 Sitzplaetze, Wagen 28, Plaetze 33 35,
Grossraumwagen, Nichtraucher, 1 Fenster, 1 Gang

The following reservations have already been made and paid for:
================================================== ==============================
02.06.2007 InterCityExpress 1509 , Berlin Hbf Berlin Central Station(ab departs 10:57) - 7,00 EUR
Muenchen Hbf Munich central station, 1.Kl. 1st class, 2 Sitzplaetze 2 seats, Wagen 28 car 28, Plaetze 33 35, seats 33, 35
Grossraumwagen large room car (standard aisles--not a compartment), Nichtraucher non-smoking, 1 Fenster, 1 Gang 1 window, 1 aisle

The following reservations have already been made and paid for:
================================================== ==============================
02.06.2007 InterCityExpress 1509 , Berlin Hbf Berlin Central Station(ab departs 10:57) - 7,00 EUR
Muenchen Hbf Munich central station, 1.Kl. 1st class, 2 Sitzplaetze 2 seats, Wagen 28 car 28, Plaetze 33 35, seats 33, 35
Grossraumwagen large room car (standard aisles--not a compartment), Nichtraucher non-smoking, 1 Fenster, 1 Gang 1 window, 1 aisle

Thanks. That's what I thought I was ordering :) .

Regarding Amtrak - there was a long article in our local paper about it recently. Part of the problem is that (at least on the east coast) freight trains have preference over Amtrak. So Amtrak trains can be pushed off to railroad sidings for an hour or two to allow freight traffic to pass. Not a great way to run a railroad. I have very much enjoyed taking trains in other countries - but would never think of using Amtrak for a long trip.

One thing that is difficult on high speed trains is looking out the windows at things that are close by. You are traveling so fast that it's hard on your eyes (at least it's hard on my eyes). Robyn

Thanks. That's what I thought I was ordering :) .

Regarding Amtrak - there was a long article in our local paper about it recently. Part of the problem is that (at least on the east coast) freight trains have preference over Amtrak. So Amtrak trains can be pushed off to railroad sidings for an hour or two to allow freight traffic to pass. Not a great way to run a railroad. I have very much enjoyed taking trains in other countries - but would never think of using Amtrak for a long trip.

One thing that is difficult on high speed trains is looking out the windows at things that are close by. You are traveling so fast that it's hard on your eyes (at least it's hard on my eyes). Robyn

Amtrak typically has priority over freight; it's generally not a matter of sitting on a siding while freights go by except in meltdown situations, which admittedly have become more common as traffic builds due to a strong U.S. economy (a recession would be good for Amtrak). Freights are much slower than passenger trains and tend to take up a lot of space on the railroad, which in the US is typically single-track. The resulting congestion is the problem, not that Amtrak is handled worse than the freights. It's handled about the same. Indeed, whenever Amtrak is 8 hours late, the typical freight train is 24 hours late...that was the conclusion when Amtrak sued SP about 20 years ago. Ultimately, the freight train environment in the US tends to be a slow, plodding environment, and it's hard to run good fast service around all that, especially when the owner who dispatches the railrooad is primarily focused on freight.

...the freight train environment in the US tends to be a slow, plodding environment, and it's hard to run good fast service around all that, especially when the owner who dispatches the railrooad is primarily focused on freight.I think dispatching decisions are primarily focused on profit, and in the U.S. freight trumps passengers on that score.

We could have another long separate discussion about all the factors which led to the current deplorable state of passenger rail service in the U.S. The decline began in earnest during the mid-1950's to 1960's. Before then it rivalled that in much of the world. The saddest thing is that younger people don't know that and so have no concept that it could be improved.

I think dispatching decisions are primarily focused on profit, and in the U.S. freight trumps passengers on that score.

We could have another long separate discussion about all the factors which led to the current deplorable state of passenger rail service in the U.S. The decline began in earnest during the mid-1950's to 1960's. Before then it rivalled that in much of the world. The saddest thing is that younger people don't know that and so have no concept that it could be improved.

Except that railroads are not businesses; they're railroads.
They are big bureaucracies that tend to act partly like monopolies, partly like governmental entities, and partly like businesses. It is true that the railroads do not feel like they are earning any significant money from an activity that isn't theirs. Handling Amtrak properly requires more than just allowing it to run; it requires active use of resources to ensure that this happens; i.e assigning people to monitor what's happening and to figure out how to avoid problems. And railroads certainly are not usually willing to spend more money to do that. Freight also tends to be nonscheduled in the US, while Amtrak is scheduled. That doesn't help...no predictability about what operating conditions should strive to be on any given day.

Can anyone explain the advantages of the "German Rail Ticket"? Here's a link to the topic on the Deutsche Bahn site. I can't tell if there's any discount for such a purchase, or what the advantages may be.

http://tinyurl.com/ypczcg

From what I understand it is obviously an add on to your flight ticket issued as an extra flight cupon. Being located in Germany, I have never used it. Though, we have a similar feature called "Rail and Fly". With several airlines, you get the "feeder train" into the airport free of charge.

So why not follow their proposal:

To order the German Rail Ticket, please contact your local travel agency. Your agent will issue a flight coupon for each journey which is valid for rail travel. A ticket exchange at a railway station counter is not required. Simply board the train; the conductor will lift the coupon and validate the passenger receipt.

I will contact a few local travel agents - I'll be shocked if any know what this is, but we will see! I'll report back in a few days.

I read somewhere that I can get a partial refund on the unused portion of a German railpass, is that true? I have a 4-day pass, but even with just 3 days worth of travel, I would already get my money's worth. I can certainly use the 4th day just to not "waste" it, but if I can get a partial refund, then why not. Does anyone have any experience? TIA.

LAX

I read somewhere that I can get a partial refund on the unused portion of a German railpass, is that true? I have a 4-day pass, but even with just 3 days worth of travel, I would already get my money's worth. I can certainly use the 4th day just to not "waste" it, but if I can get a partial refund, then why not. Does anyone have any experience? TIA.

LAX

I'm unaware of any opportunity for refund of a partially used ticket. Refunds appear to be limited to an entirely unused ticket.

I've never seen anything about refunds of unused days either.

I said I would report back in respect to the "German Rail Ticket" mentioned earlier. The DB site, as mentioned above, tells you to contact your local travel agent. I've tried three local agencies, with full documentation, and none have any idea what this is.

I looked on the web site http://www.ameropa.de and discovered that if you search for a hotel, you are given the option to add two Bahnfahrt mit ICE-Berechtigung tickets to your hotel booking. The cost is 206 Euros for two tickets, and so far as I can tell, they can be used for going to/from any selected location in Germany - you are given the option to choose the starting station.

I am working on understanding all the terms and conditions, and I have sent an email to the site. My main concern is the dates on which it is possible to use this ticket - I can't tell if they are completely open-ended (other than the restriction that the journey be completed within a month), or if there's some date restriction related to the hotel stay. I also can't determine what the cancellation policies are for the hotel booking. But with enough diligence, I hope I will figure this all out.

I looked on the web site http://www.ameropa.de and discovered that if you search for a hotel, you are given the option to add two Bahnfahrt mit ICE-Berechtigung tickets to your hotel booking. The cost is 206 Euros for two tickets, and so far as I can tell, they can be used for going to/from any selected location in Germany - you are given the option to choose the starting station.

I believe this is called RIT (Rail inclusive travel) and is/has always been the answer to Deutsche Bahn AG to packaged tours incl. air travel. Ameropa used to belong to Deutsche Bank so they are historically strong with these offers. Can be very good if you travel long distance.

The very best offer currently available is the rail & fly of Germanwings. They offer a "Rail & Fly" from any German station to Berlin, Cologne, Stuttgart and Hamburg for 19 Euro in combination with a departing flight.

http://www.germanwings.com/de/rail_fly.html

Considering that their flights are as cheap as 19 Euro you may get the journey from Garmisch Partenkirchen to Hamburg or from Stuttgart to Berlin for 38 Euro. And it might happen that you decide to miss your flight.

Googling with RIT and Rail Inclusive Tours brought up more information. Thanks for the terminology. Example:
http://www.hamburg-tourism.de/Bahn-Anreise_nach_Ha.bahn.0.html

Rail and Fly does seem like an excellent deal. Thanks for your help with this - I feel confident I will end up with a good solution one way or another.

Another page I found helpful:
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/preise/surf_rail/surf_rail_internat.shtml
This provides deals like Hamburg to Copenhagen for a one-way total price of about 32 Euros per person.

This is loosely related to the thread, but anyway -

A friend of mine is studying here in the UK, she's from Stuttgart and has a UK rail pass similar to the one you get in Germany.. and no conductor ever seems to stamp it. So herself and all the other foreign students are visiting London once a week..

A big thumbs up also for proper reclining seats in DB 1st. Minuses primarily include the unfinished high-speed track between Aachen-Liege, these guys have already working on this stretch for some seven years or so, when are you going to get to job done?

Conclusion: As a 1st traveller do ask your service personnell for benefits. They are rather proud of their jobs and will do their best to accomodate you. Don't travel second if not necessary, it's really not nice.

I have to comment on the first part of your statement here...Consider how long the A3 / A5 interchange next to FRA was being repaired. My memory says something like 8 years.

Having just completed a journey in 2nd class from Leipzig Hbf to Stuttgart on one of the ICE 3s (granted it was off-peak times), I had a table an four seats to myself. And...as an added bonus...each bank of two seats had a power port, so laptop use was possible.

I heard back from Ameropa. The train tickets included with the package can only be used for direct travel from Cologne to Berlin and back.

One advantage of the Denmark-Germany saver rail pass is that it covers expensive travel within Denmark. For example, a daytrip from Copenhagen to Odense seems to cost about 872 DKK (117 Euros) for two people, based on the figures at www.dsb.dk .

I know there are various saver options if booked in advance, but it also seems that even a daytrip from Berlin to Leipzig, if taken spontaneously at full fare on the fastest route, costs 156 Euros for two people.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/114)

I heard back from Ameropa. The train tickets included with the package can only be used for direct travel from Cologne to Berlin and back.

One advantage of the Denmark-Germany saver rail pass is that it covers expensive travel within Denmark. For example, a daytrip from Copenhagen to Odense seems to cost about 872 DKK (117 Euros) for two people, based on the figures at www.dsb.dk .

I know there are various saver options if booked in advance, but it also seems that even a daytrip from Berlin to Leipzig, if taken spontaneously at full fare on the fastest route, costs 156 Euros for two people.

Should be around 50 Euro if you combine a "Brandenburg Day Ticket" and a "Saxony Day Ticket" and use the RE or about 30 Euro on a "Happy Weekend Nationwide Day Ticket" (Schoenes Wochenend) Ticket valid on Saturday or Sunday.

The premium product ICE is the cash cow of Deutsche Bahn and the sell it for premium prices if booked on short notice. Frquent travellers with a so called Bahn Card for about 200 Euro in 2nd and 400 Euro in 1st per year get a 50% discount on top of a 7.5% corporate discount you get if your company buy over (I believe) 10000 Euro a year in rail travel - we do not care too much.

If you book in advance and are flexible with the time of the day you wish to travel, they offer a 25% or 50% discount too..

If you have the bahncard 25% (around 50 euros for second class) you do get additional discount on the reducted prices.

But as said, yiu then are fixed on the dates. normally bought tickets with bahncard are flexible, only eventual seat reservations fall flat in case you do not make that train.

i found the discounts while nice to be too restricting for my travel purposes, which is why i opted for the bahncard 50.

Here's an explanation of "Rail and Fly" in English from the Tuifly site:

http://www.tuifly.com/en/offers/fly_and_rail.html

Maybe the suggestion mentioned above to book the cheapest flight and then somehow miss it would work.

German rail will allow you to book fares at 50% in some cases (called sparpreis) but those are fixed absolute trains and times. Such a railpass offers you better flexibility.


Could someone tell me if Sparpreis is the same as the RailPlus discount? I hold a half-price discount card for Swiss Rail (SBB/CFF/FFS). I read somewhere that this entitles me to an automatic 25% RailPlus discount in Austria, the Czech Republic and Germany. Can I get the same discount even when I'm buying a Berlin-Paris ticket directly from Deutsche Bahn or does this only apply when I'm buying tickets from Swiss Rail?

Could someone tell me if Sparpreis is the same as the RailPlus discount? I hold a half-price discount card for Swiss Rail (SBB/CFF/FFS). I read somewhere that this entitles me to an automatic 25% RailPlus discount in Austria, the Czech Republic and Germany. Can I get the same discount even when I'm buying a Berlin-Paris ticket directly from Deutsche Bahn or does this only apply when I'm buying tickets from Swiss Rail?

You are referring to two diffent animals:

SPARPREIS in GErmany is comparable to a non rebookable air ticket. You choose a certain train for both, inbound and outbound and (if capacity and booking rules allow) you will get a 50% or 25% discount on the fare. There one way SPARPREISE too.

RAILPLUS discount gives you (in your case) 25% discount for the portion outside Switzerland. However, this requires your journey to start in Switzerland.

RAILPLUS discount gives you (in your case) 25% discount for the portion outside Switzerland. However, this requires your journey to start in Switzerland.
It might be a bit late, but just some clarification. The journey does not have to start in Switzerland, but it has to cross a border. A RAILPLUS ticket is further on fully flexible, i.e. it allows to use any train on the particular route. In fact, as they are international tickets, they are even more flexible than "normal" inner-German tickets for two reasons. First, even one-way tickets are valid for two months, and second, within these two months you can interrupt your travel along the route as often and as long as you like (journeys on normal inner-German tickets must be completed within 2 days). Note that in some countries interrupting the journey is not permitted if the ticket is bought in that country, but this does not hold for Germany.

It might be a bit late, but just some clarification. The journey does not have to start in Switzerland, but it has to cross a border. A RAILPLUS ticket is further on fully flexible, i.e. it allows to use any train on the particular route.

Thanks for the helpful info. If I may, two additional questions:

(1) What's needed to buy a RailPlus ticket? Could I use my Swiss Rail 50% card to buy a RailPlus ticket in Germany or would only a German discount card qualify?

(2) Is there any way to look up a RailPlus fare for Berlin to Paris? The Deutsche Bahn website doesn't give prices for international tickets, it seems.

(1) What's needed to buy a RailPlus ticket? Could I use my Swiss Rail 50% card to buy a RailPlus ticket in Germany or would only a German discount card qualify?
You need a RailPlus add-on or pass.
Your 50% off SBB pass can give you access to the RailPlus discount, AFAIK, but only if you have paid the 25 CHF for Railplus:
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/print/reiselust/europareisen/railplus.htm

(related note: Deutsche Bahn does not sell RailPlus passes except in conjunction with a BahnCard. As of this December, all new BahnCards come with RailPlus included. Those with BahnCards issued before Dec. 9 2007 who didn't purchase RailPlus at the time of BahnCard purchase can pay 15€ to get a RailPlus addendum.)

This is from DB's webpage on Railplus:

http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/prices/europe/railplus.shtml

From my understanding of it, the German Rail Pass is also available for German nationals residing outside Europe. Now, "residing" is a somewhat loose concept... Thus, can anyone tell me if (and if so, when/how) DB checks the "non-Europe" residency requirement for the German rail pass, especially if the pass is bought, e.g., in the US? Thanks in advance for any insight.

From my understanding of it, the German Rail Pass is also available for German nationals residing outside Europe. Now, "residing" is a somewhat loose concept... Thus, can anyone tell me if (and if so, when/how) DB checks the "non-Europe" residency requirement for the German rail pass, especially if the pass is bought, e.g., in the US? Thanks in advance for any insight.

They check your passport at the time of validation at DB before the pass is used. I would guess that a long-term visa for a non-European country would be sufficient.