Las Vegas - Pai Gow Poker-Best Place to Play

I know this game is poorly rated, but I love it. I usually play 2 hands for $100-$200/hand. I play 8 hours a day or so when I am in Vegas.

Currently, I play at Caesars or Paris in Vegas they give me RFB.

My wife would like to explore possibilities at Bellagio or Mandalay Bay. Would I get the same treatment at these places? I don't mind taking the leap, but I don't want to give up a good situation. I am a cash player, so when I call, they say simply: We'll bring you in a prevailing rate and comp you on your play.

Don't know current issues about other places, but Venetian at 150 average a hand for say 8 hours a day will get you room food and beverage as well as transport on PGP and only playing PGP. Venetian won't let you play two hands.

I can stand maybe 2 hours of PGP but 8 in a day and everyday of my stay? Don't think I have the patience for that.

You should come out and play in the Seattle area. Most of the casinos have gone to No Commission Pai Gow. I believe it is about the only area of the country that has this.

I did a rough estimate and figure you could save ~$200 an hour in commission. 2 hands at $200, 30 hands an hour, winning 30% of your hands.

I can stand maybe 2 hours of PGP but 8 in a day and everyday of my stay? Don't think I have the patience for that.

:D You gotta be patient to play PGP, it's such a slow push game. If you get a good table of players you enjoy generally PGP players run into the same folks over and over. For me personally, I come home with money by playing it and it comps me everytime and I go for work conventions it is usually helpful for me to play that over other games where I don't always come home with money :p

I think I sat there one time for well over an hour and a half with a decent bet out there and just pushed the entire time, drove me crazy, such a frustrating game at times. Sometimes when you think you will win you lose and sometimes when you get junk you can win. You don't need to sit there for eight hours, just have a good bet out there and they will comp you just like every other game. But of course the casino's want four hours or so a day of play.

[QUOTE=KosraeTV;7308808...usually helpful for me to play that over other games where I don't always come home with money :p
[/QUOTE]

Ahhh, so that's why I usually go home with less money @:-) :D

Anyone get a Royal while playing PGP?

Ahhh, so that's why I usually go home with less money @:-) :D

Anyone get a Royal while playing PGP?

I usually like Paris. Lots of tables. Good dealers.
Good drink service. I like Champagne too.

Got a Royal with Joker last year. Had $ 10.00
on the bonus. I think it was like $ 2500.00 back.
When I rolled the cards I thought cool. Another straight Flush.
Like my 4th in 3 years of playing PGP.
The guy next to me looked and said. Dude thats royal.
Still a push. 8 and 6 on top.

After years of playing too much blackjack. PGP is more
fun to play. Especially with a date in tow. But as far as
getting comps. PGP players are rated like scum.

PGP is more fun to play. Especially with a date in tow. But as far as getting comps. PGP players are rated like scum.

I agree with the date part. But the comps I only know Venetian lately but Mandalay, MGM, and others have ended up comping me in the past on PGP play. So I don't see that PGP players are rated like scum.

What's the story at Paris and such?? I am not a bally's / paris / treasure / mirage / harrahs / flamingo etc... fan lately so I don't know how they operate their comps.

Got a Royal with Joker last year. Had $ 10.00
on the bonus. I think it was like $ 2500.00 back.



A Royal pays 150 to 1, so you must have gotten $1500.00.

I've had 3 Royals and one time got 5 Aces, although not in Vegas.

http://wizardofodds.com/fortunepaigow

If the casino is not using Table 2, I would find somewhere else to play.

A Royal pays 150 to 1, so you must have gotten $1500.00.

I've had 3 Royals and one time got 5 Aces, although not in Vegas.

http://wizardofodds.com/fortunepaigow

If the casino is not using Table 2, I would find somewhere else to play.

I think your right. $ 1500.00 sounds right. I think it may be I cashed for
$ 2500.00 from the table when I got up. Remember 2 Yellows and Purple.

Sorry I was AWOL for all of these posts. Thanks for the feedback. We just stayed 4 nights at Paris and they treated us great. All comped including show tix (Producers w/ D. Hasselhoff) and spa for my wife. The people were great-good dealers etc. My wife liked Paris as well. Nice atmosphere and dinner at Eiffel Tower rest. was great.

Our best hand was a Royal Flush my wife got a few years back. Yesterday at Paris, someone got one with $30 bet for the bonus=$4500.00. I hate when the dealer gets a great hand when I could have banked.

I enjoy Pai Gow because you always have a chance. In BJ, when you bust out, the dealer can draw to 90 and you have already lost your $$. No matter how bad your cards are in PGP, you might push. And with the side bet, big $$ is always possible.

I really enjoy PGP myself, though I don't play quite that much ... maybe I should though ...

I wonder if the casinos rate those playing Fortune bets a lot higher than those of us who don't (because they are a pretty poor bet odds wise)?

I wonder if the casinos rate those playing Fortune bets a lot higher than those of us who don't (because they are a pretty poor bet odds wise)?

I've heard mixed reports about this. What I do know is Venetian does count the bonus bet for your rating. I've heard others do not.

I've heard mixed reports about this. What I do know is Venetian does count the bonus bet for your rating. I've heard others do not.

That seems consistent with the fact that Venetian counts your odds bet (or a portion) from dice for rating purposes. Though, some have told me they "look" for higher overall averages with craps compared to some other table games.

For those of you who play Pia Gow do you play the bonus? I typically don't but it seems like everybody does.

Have any of you played Pai Gow tiles? Does it have better odds? Seems complicated...............

For those of you who play Pia Gow do you play the bonus? I typically don't but it seems like everybody does.

Have any of you played Pai Gow tiles? Does it have better odds? Seems complicated...............

It's a stupid bet if you go by the numbers (if you play it via computer and can track the hands you have bonus hands and such you will see you lose money) but the whole issue is that once you hit a big bonus hand and if you have a bet out there you keep playing it, plus if you don't have a bonus bet out there and you hit a big on you kick yourself. But five or ten dollars on the bonus hand is usually not much compared to what others are betting on the hand overall.

Generally I'll take a five or ten off the bet when I win and keep them set aside to play the bonus hand just because it really hurts when you have a good bonus hand. Plus in my experience I've seen that I usually have a good run of bonus hands in a row and it hurts to keep seeing them and not winning that extra bonus.

But overall it's not a good bet.

Tiles are nothing like poker. Complicated and such but fun to play if you can get into it, I learned tiles in Asia itself surprisingly as a supplier happened to like playing tiles so he sat down with me for a long time and taught me.

It's a stupid bet if you go by the numbers (if you play it via computer and can track the hands you have bonus hands and such you will see you lose money) but the whole issue is that once you hit a big bonus hand and if you have a bet out there you keep playing it, plus if you don't have a bonus bet out there and you hit a big on you kick yourself. But five or ten dollars on the bonus hand is usually not much compared to what others are betting on the hand overall.

.... Plus in my experience I've seen that I usually have a good run of bonus hands in a row and it hurts to keep seeing them and not winning that extra bonus.

But overall it's not a good bet.


Yep, not a good bet but I feel more stupid if I get a great hand without the bonus bet. It is funny how there is usually a run on consecutive bonus hands.

Tiles are nothing like poker. Complicated and such but fun to play if you can get into it, I learned tiles in Asia itself surprisingly as a supplier happened to like playing tiles so he sat down with me for a long time and taught me.

Did he also teach you how to shake the dice bowl and SLAM it on the table? :D

Did he also teach you how to shake the dice bowl and SLAM it on the table? :D

Of course, but there's lots of dice games in asia and they ALL slam the bowl :D Go to just about any bar in Asia and you can generally hear the slamming of the cups on the tables Especially in KTV's and such.

Generally I'll take a five or ten off the bet when I win and keep them set aside to play the bonus hand just because it really hurts when you have a good bonus hand. Plus in my experience I've seen that I usually have a good run of bonus hands in a row and it hurts to keep seeing them and not winning that extra bonus.

But overall it's not a good bet.



Isn’t it rather dependent on how full the table is? With the envy bonus the house has about a 3.1% house advantage on a full table but a 7% advantage if only one hand is being played. The house has around a 2.8% advantage on the regular had. So on a full table I don’t see the bonus as being all that bad of a bet.

I'm probably missing something.

Isn’t it rather dependent on how full the table is? With the envy bonus the house has about a 3.1% house advantage on a full table but a 7% advantage if only one hand is being played. The house has around a 2.8% advantage on the regular had. So on a full table I don’t see the bonus as being all that bad of a bet.

I'm probably missing something.


Sorry but I think I'm a little lost in your post. Are you saying the house has an 3.1 advantage on the hand or the bonus bet for a full table? The house advantage or edge on the bonus bet I've heard to be about 40% which is terrible. The house has a 2.85% edge on the overall hands on average if they are always the banker. If you bank half the time one on one against the house then the house advantage shrinks in half.

If you bet over 5 bucks you do have the envy at most places, but what does that get you, 20 bucks or something like that if someone got a straight flush?

I was speaking by my own exerience that it's a bad bet but most bonus bets in gambling are bad bets and after looking at how often I achieved a bonus hand by playing it on my computer as the program I have charts the types of hands I get and I calculated that I lost a good amount by betting it always. I don't kow the exact % of the bet, sorry.


Also harrah's (the champion of carnival games) and Flamingo has released mini pai gow recently. As a trial. You get six cards and you have to make the best five card hand and then your top one card hand. There are other various bonus bets. It's created even more pushes then reguar pai gow. Joker is higher then ace. If house and player have ace up top it is a push not a loss for the player. King vs king up top goes to the house. 2 pair pays 1 to 1, a straight pays 4 to 1, flush pays 7 to 1. There was no commission. Table only seated six folks. Minimum was 25 a hand and minimum on bonus was 5. The bonus is where they were making their money on this game.

Check it out, it was interesting.

Sorry but I think I'm a little lost in your post. Are you saying the house has an 3.1 advantage on the hand or the bonus bet for a full table? The house advantage or edge on the bonus bet I've heard to be about 40% which is terrible. The house has a 2.85% edge on the overall hands on average if they are always the banker. If you bank half the time one on one against the house then the house advantage shrinks in half.

If you bet over 5 bucks you do have the envy at most places, but what does that get you, 20 bucks or something like that if someone got a straight flush?

I was speaking by my own exerience that it's a bad bet but most bonus bets in gambling are bad bets and after looking at how often I achieved a bonus hand by playing it on my computer as the program I have charts the types of hands I get and I calculated that I lost a good amount by betting it always. I don't kow the exact % of the bet, sorry.



I'm not sure where you are getting 40%.

http://wizardofodds.com/fortunepaigow

States on a full table playing $5, the house advantage on the bonus bet is only 3.1%. Sure you only get $20 on a straight flush, but when you factor in the big hands like 5 aces ($250), the envy money lowers the over all house advantage.

I've never seen a place where you can bank half the time. I thought you could normally only bank once every 12 hands.

I'm not sure where you are getting 40%.

http://wizardofodds.com/fortunepaigow

States on a full table playing $5, the house advantage on the bonus bet is only 3.1%. Sure you only get $20 on a straight flush, but when you factor in the big hands like 5 aces ($250), the envy money lowers the over all house advantage.

I've never seen a place where you can bank half the time. I thought you could normally only bank once every 12 hands.

You got me too. Maybe it's that we only win 40% of the time. To me it's like playing a slot machine, sometimes you get a few bucks and only rarely do you get a big one. But I still play it incase of the big one. I will look up and see if I can find any references on it. Who thinks it's a good value bet? What I also do with it is I'll tip the dealer and ask them if they want it on the hand or on the bonus, they always pick the bonus, just in case :p Once they did that with a 5 up for the dealer and I hit five aces (of course I had some up for me too).

On banking, you can alternate the bank with the house at Venetian, you bank, they bank, you bank, they bank, as long as no one else wants to bank. If you're at a table full of folks, as long as no one there wants to bank you can go every other hand. If someone wants to bank, he banks, you bank, house banks, he banks, you bank, house banks, etc... It's your option.

Where do you normally play?

On banking, you can alternate the bank with the house at Venetian, you bank, they bank, you bank, they bank, as long as no one else wants to bank. If you're at a table full of folks, as long as no one there wants to bank you can go every other hand. If someone wants to bank, he banks, you bank, house banks, he banks, you bank, house banks, etc... It's your option.

Where do you normally play?

With regards to banking it seems that most places have a banker’s button that they move around the table Player 1 – Dealer –Player 2 – Dealer etc. I have to admit that I don’t normally bank, or for that matter play much Pai Gow in Vegas anymore, and stick to BJ.

As another poster mentioned I found out about the No Commission Pai Gow in Washington. I go to Seattle on business a fair amount and like to stop and play at their casinos. After playing No Commission, it is hard to go back giving up 5% every time you win.

http://wizardofodds.com/askthewizard/askcolumns/askthewizard159.html

The best hand I think I’ve seen was a guy played $25 on the bonus and told the dealer $5 of that was for her and $5 was for the cocktail waitress. He hit a Royal. The waitress and dealer were pretty darn happy.

I've heard mixed reports about this. What I do know is Venetian does count the bonus bet for your rating. I've heard others do not.

That's odd if anything you would think they would want to encourage the bonus since most are great bets for the house right?

On banking, you can alternate the bank with the house at Venetian, you bank, they bank, you bank, they bank, as long as no one else wants to bank. If you're at a table full of folks, as long as no one there wants to bank you can go every other hand. If someone wants to bank, he banks, you bank, house banks, he banks, you bank, house banks, etc... It's your option.

Where do you normally play?

You can do this at Harrah's in Council Bluffs Iowa too. It is actually a good way to get a table by yourself. People here hate it when you bank. It's quite fun. The first time you do it they think it's a fluke or something, but when you keep banking they act like you're going to ruin their chances of winning.

You can do this at Harrah's in Council Bluffs Iowa too. It is actually a good way to get a table by yourself. People here hate it when you bank. It's quite fun. The first time you do it they think it's a fluke or something, but when you keep banking they act like you're going to ruin their chances of winning.

The variations I have seen are:

1) Bally's AC: House banks and then each player in succession gets a chance to bank. So in essence, if everyone wanted to bank, the house would bank 1 out of 7 hands. If no one wants to bank, then an individual player can bank every other hand.

2) A banker button moves seat to seat. So, if I am spot one, I bank. Next hand, the button moves to spot 2, that player ONLY can bank. If they chose not to, the house banks and then the button moves to seat 3 and so on.

3) similar to 1, but house banks every other hand.

4) I believe Caesar's Indiana didn't allow player bankers at all when I was there several years ago.

4) I believe Caesar's Indiana didn't allow player bankers at all when I was there several years ago.

while I know little of PGP; I do know for a fact that Indiana Gaming Commission does NOT allow players to bank at any of the Casinos in Indiana. I used to live 35 minutes from Argosy Lawrenceburg, and had this conversation with someone a while ago. So, it isn't Caesar's but instead Indiana's strange gaming rules, which also include : no free drinks while gaming and no hop bets at dice.