Starwood Preferred Guest - Best remaining category 4 and lower hotels

Any ideas on the best remaining category 4 and under hotels? When deciding whether to stay with Starwood after the devaluation I came across the following that still seem like good values:

Westin Whistler, Canada, category 4

Westin Cape Hotel and Spa, South Africa, category 4

Arabella Sheraton Grand Hotel Cape Town, South Africa, category 3.

As I'm hoping to take a trip to South Africa in the next year having those two hotels not change category encouraged me to stick with Starwood. Any other ideas for other good value hotels? Fortunately I booked the Grand Bertagne before the devaluation, but I'm interested in people's thoughts on the remaining value hotels. I only do personal travel so don't accumulate enough points to stay at the higher categories.

Well, I haven't looked for Cat 4, but all Cat 5 hotels in Athens/Greece have basically been left unchanged. 12,000-15000 points for a night these hotels is fair in my opinion.
-Wayne

Le Royal Meridien Bristol in Warsaw is amazingly still a Category 3.

I second Westin Whister. I got upgraded to a suite there as Gold right before New Years and it was a terrific room, very convienient to both Whistler and Blackcomb.

Thanks,

JB

And I'll chip in for Whistler as well - a great hotel.

I'd also add in:

The Laguna Nusa Dua in Bali, category 3.
Le Royal Mansour Méridien, category 3

Both really nice hotels for a stay and with good treatments of SPG Gold upwards from my experience.

The Sheraton Bilbao is a dramatic new hotel in an good location near Frank Gehry's Guggenheim Museum and the attractive riverfront. In my view, it has to be one of the better Category 3 properties.

I'll second the Sheraton Laguna Nusa Dua in Bali. It is, or should be, rated 5 stars. Amazing that it's just Category 3. Probably because Americans (and Australians) are not visiting Bali in the same numbers as before the October 2005 bombings.

When we stayed next door to it (at the Melia Bali) a year ago, the Melia Bali was at 100% occupancy, filled with Brits, French, Germans and other Europeans (we didn't meet anyone else there from the U.S.), while the Sheraton, Hilton, Hyatt, and other U.S. brands were only at 18 to 25 % occupancy. It was really sad in a way to see these gorgeous properties with almost no one using them. I assume it's picked up quite a bit since then.

Le Meridien at Beverly Hills - Category 4
Sheraton Delfina Santa Monica Hotel - Category 4
Sheraton Minneapolis Midtown - Category 3
Sheraton Pretoria Hotel (South Africa) - Category 2 (an absolutely beautiful hotel!)

By the way, the so-called devaluation is simply to adjust the category to fit the average rates being charged last year. If the rates drop (enough), so will the category. Of course, this doesn't work so well when category 5 hotels change to category 6 -- they really need a category in between.

W Montreal - Cat 4

It's an amazing property and one of the few hotels that offer cash & points all year round

Just picking up that bone and waving it around again...
Dont forget your Category 4 + $$$ Resort fee nonsense...:td:

Well, I haven't looked for Cat 4, but all Cat 5 hotels in Athens/Greece have basically been left unchanged. 12,000-15000 points for a night these hotels is fair in my opinion.
-Wayne

Not true! I think you must be looking at a bad list! Changes in Greece are as follows:
Grande Bretagne from a Cat. 4 to a 5
Westin Athens Astir Palace from a 4 to a 5
Blue Palace from a 5 to a 6
Santa Marina from a 5 to a 6
Vedema Resort from a 5 to a 6

If I remember correctly several of these have seen increase of +2 categories over the last two years. Grande Bretagne used to be a 5 then it was moved to a 4 last year and now is back up to a 5.

Le Meridien at Beverly Hills - Category 4

There has been discussions of this hotel changing to another flag in other posts so I assume it wasn't upped because they will be leaving *W anyway so enjoy it as a Cat. 4 while you can. Here's a link to a post I had started with this news in the past:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547533&highlight=lemeridien+beverly

I think some of the Cat. 4 LeMeridien hotels in Europe are still a pretty decent (until they get changed) deal. Vienna, Hamburg and Budapest come to mind.

W Mexico City (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1444) is still Category 4 and a great hotel.

W Seattle
Westin St Francis
Sheraton Boston

Those are the ones I can think of right now. They all have rates higher than $200 sometimes so 10K points would be a great use!

Even though it just went from a 3 to a 4, I think the Sheraton Old San Juan is still a great value for points. The location in Old Town San Juan is hard to beat, it has a decent casino, the staff are quite good at processing upgrades (even when I was a Gold), and the harbor views are very nice, especially when cruise ships are in.

This Sheraton is still a category 4. I got upgraded to the Club Floor as a gold member. Their club lounge had an amazing evening 'meal' supposedly appetizers but beautifully presented and very original and tasty dishes. The breakfast was also very very good and a full breakfast not just muffins and juice. The rooms are great, the gym is great.

This Sheraton is still a category 4. I got upgraded to the Club Floor as a gold member. Their club lounge had an amazing evening 'meal' supposedly appetizers but beautifully presented and very original and tasty dishes. The breakfast was also very very good and a full breakfast not just muffins and juice. The rooms are great, the gym is great.

A great prop, excellent location, and a fair deal at Cat 4...

Hacienda Santa Rosa and Hacienda Puerta Campeche in Mexico are still Cat 4 (unfortunately the other Yucatan Haciendas went to 5, but these two are excellent properties as well).

Sheraton Wild Horse Pass in PHX is a good Cat 4 value (at least during high season).

I think all the Australia hotels are still good value.

Of course this thread will be used by SPG to raise the category of all hotels mentioned next year. :)

I understand the purpose of this thread. However, it might just backfire... I mean, if everyone flocks to one of the last good Starpoint "deal" property, it will go up soon enough. Also, someone from Starwood might be lurking here... Hi! William! ;)

If I would pitch one in... it would be the Sheraton Atlantic City Convention Center. I was sure this one was going to 4.
When the Four Points Philadelphia Airport is a category 3, we know we're in trouble.

...Also, someone from Starwood might be lurking here... Hi! William! ;)

Hello...but I'm not sure how my being here would have any affect on what category any of these properties are next year. :confused:

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Hello...but I'm not sure how my being here would have any affect on what category any of these properties are next year. :confused:

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Sorry for the bad joke William. I just meant that Starwood might keep an open eye on those "nice" properties to raise them soon enough & if I recall correctly, I've seen some properties change category mid-year... I know, I know it has everything to do about rates & occupancy and not how "nice" a property is or how much we like it. But still, I'm sorry William, but we're all a little bummed about the hit our Starpoint accounts took a week ago. I was saving, collecting & adding Starpoints and look where I am now, devaluation :(. I was expecting changes, but this was a bit much. I know you're here to help and thank you for it. :)
Sorry again for the bad joke.

Sorry for the bad joke William. I just meant that Starwood might keep an open eye on those "nice" properties to raise them soon enough & if I recall correctly, I've seen some properties change category mid-year... I know, I know it has everything to do about rates & occupancy and not how "nice" a property is or how much we like it. But still, I'm sorry William, but we're all a little bummed about the hit our Starpoint accounts took a week ago. I was saving, collecting & adding Starpoints and look where I am now, devaluation:(. I was expecting changes, but this was a bit much. I know you're here to help and thank you for it. :)
Sorry again for the bad joke.

No worries. The number of adjustments this year were significant and I hate to say it, but I told you so. :) And despite opinions to the contrary, they were based (as usual) on average daily rates. If anyone feels otherwise, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and say that our empirical data set is probably more of an accurate measurement of that reality than anyone else's experiential data set.

And, you are right. It can change at any time if a property disputes where they are within a given redemption range at the beginning of the year and provides the data to prove their point.

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

And, you are right. It can change at any time if a property disputes where they are within a given redemption range at the beginning of the year and provides the data to prove their point.

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

So I guess if we're happy about the current category of a property, we should book N-O-W. Since it can change at any time, I have a few reservations to make. ;)

And despite opinions to the contrary, they were based (as usual) on average daily rates.
For what it's worth, so no FTers misunderstand my previous posts, I've never said that the category changes were based on anything other than ADR... I've just said that theoretically other things could have driven some changes, and of course SPG doesn't release the formulas so I wasn't in a position to say...

And to contribute to the 'value' discussion..

Le Meridien Limassol at Cat 4
Le Meridien Pyramids at Cat 1
W Seattle at Cat 4
Sheraton Keauhou Bay Resort & Spa at Cat 4 (see, William, there is still a cat 4 property in Hawaii... :p )
Sheraton Moorea at Cat 5
Westin Sydney & Westin Melbourne at Cat 4
Sheraton Grand Bahama Island Our Lucaya Resort at Cat 3 (though I haven't been there)
Sheraton Anchorage (in the summer) at Cat 3
Le Meridien Cyberport at Cat 3

Honorable mention: just because it's in Hawaii, it's worth noting that Sheraton Princess Kaiulani is still cat 3..

Sheraton Keauhou Bay Resort & Spa at Cat 4 (see, William, there is still a cat 4 property in Hawaii... :p )

Beware, it might be a 5 tomorrow. :D

There is no such thing as a Westin Cape Hotel as claimed in post one.

It is the Western Cape Hotel, actually a Lux. Coll. ArabellaSheraton. It is Cat.4 but before last year it was for sure the best Cat. 3...too bad it moved up to 4 a year ago.

Despite the category 5 increase, the Athens Grande Bretagne required 12000 points when I previously searched before the change, and still does today.
I know because I've been planning a trip to Greece and Paris using nothing but airline and hotel points for a year.

But none the less, let's take a look at Egypt.

Sheraton Soma Bay Resort
Soma Bay, Red Sea 7,000
Category 3

Sheraton Montazah Hotel
Alexandria 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Sheraton Sharm Hotel, Resort and Villas
Sharm El Sheikh 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Sheraton Cairo Hotel, Towers and Casino
Cairo 3,000-4,000
Category 2

Le Meridien Pyramids
Cairo 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Le Meridien Makadi Bay
Makadi Bay 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Sheraton Luxor Resort
Luxor 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Sheraton Miramar Resort El Gouna
El Gouna 2,000-3,000
Category 1

Le Meridien Heliopolis
Cairo 2,000-3,000
Category 1

-W

Here's a few more above-average hotels in Category 3:

The Westin Prince Toronto
Le Center Sheraton Montreal
Sheraton Buganvillas Resort in Puerto Vallarta
Westin Resort & Spa Cancun
Westin Bonaventure Los Angeles
Westin Crown Center, Kansas City

and in Bangkok, the Plaza Athenee and the Westin Grand Sukhumvit.

While we're at it, does it make any sense why the Royal Orchid Sheraton on the river in Bangkok is a Category 2? It certainly looked a lot better than that when I was in Bangkok a year ago. I just checked, and TripAdvisor still ranks it in the top ten percent of all hotels in Bangkok, which is quite an achievement. (I know, the answer is supply and demand; my point is that this is a great use of 3,000-4,000 points per night.)

Le Meridien at Beverly Hills - Category 4


Stayed there in December wouldn't recommend this place to ANYONE. In fact I have referred people away from the hotel to other hotels in BH area.

The sooner they close it and do the refurb, the better it will be. Hopefully they will also do a refurb in the whole customer service aspect that mgmt has towards their customers.

Some excellent value in Israel:

Herods Vitalis Spa Eilat (Category 3)
Merideien Dead sea (Category 1)

There has been discussions of this hotel changing to another flag in other posts so I assume it wasn't upped because they will be leaving *W anyway so enjoy it as a Cat. 4 while you can.

This thread is about 2007, not 2008. The reflagging is not going to happen until early 2008 according to its owners, SBE Entertainment (www.sbeent.com):

"The new brand will offer the utmost luxury, with lively public spaces, private guest check-in and guestrooms which will go beyond the notion of ‘interior design’ into works of art. The first property in this new brand will debut in early 2008, in what is currently Los Angeles’ Le Meridien at Beverly Hills, which SBE acquired in November 2005."

Stayed there in December wouldn't recommend this place to ANYONE. In fact I have referred people away from the hotel to other hotels in BH area. The sooner they close it and do the refurb, the better it will be. Hopefully they will also do a refurb in the whole customer service aspect that mgmt has towards their customers.

The location is excellent and your experience may not be typical. The reviews on tripadvisor.com are mixed, so it all depends on the room you are assigned.

I rarely interact with staff or use any of the hotel's services, except to check in at the front desk, so customer service is not as important to me as it obviously is to you. I care mostly about room size and quality of the furnishings. If I am not happy with the room I am assigned, I am not hesitant to ask to see another one.

I would add the most of the hotels in the West Hollywood area leave MUCH to be desired in terms of ambience and customer services and some are simply disgusting, so would be interested in knowing which nearby hotels meet your approval.

This thread is about 2007, not 2008. The reflagging is not going to happen until early 2008 according to its owners, SBE Entertainment (www.sbeent.com):

"The new brand will offer the utmost luxury, with lively public spaces, private guest check-in and guestrooms which will go beyond the notion of ‘interior design’ into works of art. The first property in this new brand will debut in early 2008, in what is currently Los Angeles’ Le Meridien at Beverly Hills, which SBE acquired in November 2005."
You are right that this thread is about 2007 and not 2008 but don't you think the hotel might leave SPG in 2007 for renovations, etc. if it is to debut as a new brand in early 2008??? Just my thoughts!

I rarely interact with staff or use any of the hotel's services, except to check in at the front desk, so customer service is not as important to me as it obviously is to you. I care mostly about room size and quality of the furnishings. If I am not happy with the room I am assigned, I am not hesitant to ask to see another one.

When they don't give you the room you reserved (and downgrade you) that is a problem, especially when you check in ~ 5 p.m. and they claim no other rooms are available.

When the parking attendant smashes your vehicle and tries to hide the fact until confronted (we watched him hit another car), that is a problem.

Like I said, I have referred people away from this hotel and will continue to do so as long as I have breathe. It is the ONLY hotel I have ever said this about.

I would add the most of the hotels in the West Hollywood area leave MUCH to be desired in terms of ambience and customer services and some are simply disgusting, so would be interested in knowing which nearby hotels meet your approval.

Nicest in the area is the Sofitel, if you want West Hollywood. Given you pretty much need a car here, I recommend folks head over to Century City or Beverly Hills proper (Rodeo Dr area) for a hotel.

IMHO, W Seattle is a high-quality property & good value as a Cat 4.

Stayed there in December wouldn't recommend this place to ANYONE. In fact I have referred people away from the hotel to other hotels in BH area.

The sooner they close it and do the refurb, the better it will be. Hopefully they will also do a refurb in the whole customer service aspect that mgmt has towards their customers.

Amen Maple Leaf.

Speaking of LA, the Sheraton Gateway LAX at an unchanged Category 2 has always offered and continues to offer a phenominal value. Especially now that the 4 Points LAX which I have always regarded as skanky at best (I know some of you will disagree) is also a 2 and everyone's favourite the Westin LAX (believe it or not) is a 3.

I would recommend the Westin in Leipzig. It went from a 1 to a 2 but it is still a great value. The location is great, near the train station and all of the action. As a plat our room was a nice high suite with a balcony. In the lounge we were given a free drink and served nice snacks.

I think the Westin Tremblant is a great value for a catagory 4 hotel. I have gone Christmas week for three years on awards. The going rate is over $500. a night at that time of year.

Sheraton Taipei is catagory 3 with its USD $60 Million comprehensive renovation in final stage now. I will expect it goes up to cat 4 soon.

Westin Taipei is still Cat 4.

Sheraton Taipei is catagory 3 with its USD $60 Million comprehensive renovation in final stage now. I will expect it goes up to cat 4 soon.

Westin Taipei is still Cat 4.

I love this hotel.....the Club Lounge is absolutely excellent...with very nice offerings in the morning and evening hours. Bathroom amenities are from L'Occitane, and I got to stock up every time... :D

Also, the Lounge serves M&C Brut Imperial (not the cheaper White Star) during breakfast hours as well as the evening hours..... waking up each morning with a Imperial Mimosa is a great way to start the day!!!

I expected the hike to Cat 4 this year, especially the daily rates exceed those of the Westin, which is a Cat 4 currently. It's a value at Cat 3, and if you can guarantee the Executive Diplomatic Suite at 14K points, it's the best deal (and can shoot for an upgrade to Ambassador Suite).

I just had a great stay at the Westin Cancun (still Cat. 3).
3s: Sheraton Puerto Vallarta;
Le Méridien Versailles, Montreal;
Sheraton Philadelphia City Center Hotel;
The Westin Grand Berlin, Germany.

2s: Sheraton Buckhead Hotel Atlanta;
Sheraton Raleigh Hotel, NC;
Four Points by Sheraton Central Dusseldorf, Germany;
Royal Orchid Sheraton Hotel & Towers, Bangkok.

Villa Cipriani in Asolo, Italy - a truly first class property, only a Cat 4 because of highly seasonal traffic patterns.

The Palace in San Francisco is a fine hotel, some great rooms (and some small ones, too). But a nice hotel nonetheless.

Really hated to see the Bristol and Goldener Hirsch go up to 5. But the Sheraton Salzburg always gets great reviews too.

Hoping to be able to endorse the Convento D'Espirito in Portugal after our trip in May :)

Any ideas on the best remaining category 4 and under hotels? When deciding whether to stay with Starwood after the devaluation I came across the following that still seem like good values:


Greg999: are you sure you don't work for Robin Korman, VP of SPG and she asked you to find out which hotels were left off the list of increases?

MOD: This thread should be deleted or moved to email/PM so Ms. Korman does not get any more ideas! We can't fall into her trap by contributing to this thread.

With the rather large exodus of previously devoted *wood travellers after the Feb. 1 devaluation, wouldn't you think that something like this would only further that? *wood is a business, they know that when push comes to shove, shoving us out the door could leave unrecoverable damage to their financials. I would hope it be unlikely that they would do another massive change for at least a couple of years...unless the individuals making the decisions are in fact completely and entirely disconnected with the customer base and trends.

Cheers,

Adrian

Greg999: are you sure you don't work for Robin Korman, VP of SPG and she asked you to find out which hotels were left off the list of increases?

MOD: This thread should be deleted or moved to email/PM so Ms. Korman does not get any more ideas! We can't fall into her trap by contributing to this thread.

Despite the category 5 increase, the Athens Grande Bretagne required 12000 points when I previously searched before the change, and still does today.


Well, I stayed at the GB in mid-January for 10,000 points per night. Unless I am mistaken, 12,000 points (ie 2,000 more) was the amount needed to book a Junior Suite instead of a standard room.

I think the Le Royal Meridian Phuket Harbour is a good deal as a cat 3 !

I have been thinking about this for a while in terms of how the category changes are viewed. I believe William when he writes that Starwood bases the category changes on average daily room rates.

If a property moves up a category because of an increase in average daily room rate, then this could be considered a "market adjustment." This is only true though if the internal average daily rate for a specific category of hotel remains the same.

While Starwood is unlikely to publish the information, suppose that category 4 represents an average daily room rate of $200 to $250 in 2006. If Starwood uses the same range in 2007, then all of the category changes could be considered a market adjustment. If the range for a category 4 drops to $180 to $230 per night, then this is an intentional devaluation of the program. The key question is how much of the category changes are the result of changes in average daily room rates versus changes in how Starwood defines the range of average daily rates within a specific category of hotels.

Ontario Sheraton is a recently renovated Cat 2 - $149/n.
Nice/new sweet sleeper beds, down (or down sim.) pillows, etc. Though there are only 2 suites, the club level or club upgrade (for Gold+) includes bathrobes, bottled water and shower gel (wooptie doo, you may say, but I'm giving the full review, eh). The Club Lounge for Gold+ had free food (chinger tenders, homemade chips/salsa, etc.) and good breakfast (continental + eggs, bacon and potatoes as well as a nice selection of fresh fruit) ^

Thanks for everyone contributing to the list! For an SPG n00b, this is gold :)

I wish this thread was Sticky, there are SO many posts about great hotels, I wish there was a list of values by category somewhere that was thorough...

The key question is how much of the category changes are the result of changes in average daily room rates versus changes in how Starwood defines the range of average daily rates within a specific category of hotels.

And the key answer is: We'll never know that info.......:( That's for SPG to know and us to...............not know. :td:

Well, I stayed at the GB in mid-January for 10,000 points per night. Unless I am mistaken, 12,000 points (ie 2,000 more) was the amount needed to book a Junior Suite instead of a standard room.

I too booked a room at the Grande Bretagne in late Nov or early Dec. 2006 at the old 10,000 pt rate. The previous poster must have been misinformed or something........................

Any other suggestions? Once again, this list has been very helpful in planning vacations and destinations. Thanks! :)

It would be great if this list could be updated taking the March 4, 2008 category changes into consideration.