Starwood Preferred Guest - Poll: Who is leaving SPG for good?

Reading all these threads bashing *wood for what I think is an outrageous redemption hike and a lot of folks giving wood the boot. I for one will stick it through also bcs I only have *points for their airline redemption value. Should that drastically change (like CO) then Im gone for good.

So, how many are you going to leave *wood based on whatever reason?

Lurker, might want to track this thread if it gets out of control!!;)

I think a lot of us at times say we are going to leave one affiliation or another and then when they have a great deal we go back. God, I have done this many times. I have gotten angry at the treatment I have recieved at times and then I get over it and go back. People may take a break, but more times than not they go back. I wonder if the people at corporate know this and count on it.

I don't jump ship absolutely. I just revise my plans and adjust my "game". ;)

The next time they have a 5-night for 50k (or something like, say 10-night for 100k bonus), I'll game it.

Even with all the complaining, this adjustment seems minor in the scheme of things. About a year ago, Fairmont cut their benefits by 2/3 (you could look at that as 300% "inflation" in the terms of this board). I switched at that point to SPG, and have no regrets. Even at the new, higher redemption rates, SPG points are still easily worth $.03 each, and potentially much more in some cases. Relative to almost any other program out there (when comparing apples to apples -- i.e. unrestricted redemption options), SPG is still far ahead. So, while I'm not happy about the increases, abandoning ship just doesn't make sense, not yet anyway.

I think it only makes sense to "jump ship" if you see that there's something to keep you from drowning (preferably a better ship). I'm actively learning about other programs and won't hesitate to jump ship if a better deal is out there. That's too bad as I kinda felt that Starwood was "my" chain. I'm not feeling the warm-n-fuzzies these days... :(

I don't jump ship absolutely. I just revise my plans and adjust my "game". ;)

The next time they have a 5-night for 50k (or something like, say 10-night for 100k bonus), I'll game it.

^ ^ ^

I think it only makes sense to "jump ship" if you see that there's something to keep you from drowning (preferably a better ship). I'm actively learning about other programs and won't hesitate to jump ship if a better deal is out there. That's too bad as I kinda felt that Starwood was "my" chain. I'm not feeling the warm-n-fuzzies these days... :(

From where I'm sitting, that's about the most sane and reasoned comment thus far on this topic since the formal announcement (oops!!!! there was none) from *wood on this on 1 FEB.

Essentially, I am miffed at some of the jumps since they seem a little aggressive (Aladdin to CAT5 for heaven's sake?), but many of the hotels I'll use did not change. In the end, I don't think I've been significantly impacted by these recent upticks in categories, but I will feel some of it.

For me, I need to say in a clear voice that it is my expectation that after this heavy round of category escalation that this needs to not happen again next year. (One wonders if the revenue management in White Plains studied this scenario for some time to ultimately decide that, if they had to make painful changes, just go ahead and make most of them at the same time. Kind of the slow approach to removing a stubborn band-aid versus the warp speed rip off.) In the long term, if these are the primary changes for the next 24-36 months, I can stomach that. However, if my crystal ball told me that we could expect yet another upheaving next February... that would be enough to make me really upset.

I will confess that I'm like GUWonder in that sense. I'll do revenue stays at SPG for the right promo. The catch is that they've now moved the bar a lot higher for themselves. I had a series of three W Seattle stays scheduled to earn 6,000 bonus points between now and March - but have since canceled them and gone back to my usual Marriott stays. Now I need 10k or 12k to do a similar 3-stay 6-night series. With the devaluation, I'm better off with Marriott points at their normal levels.

SPG has slipped far behind Marriott and Hilton comparing apples-to-apples. The raw earning power on revenue stays is much higher at the other two. The SPG Amex has now fallen roughly in line with HH Amex. Starwood advertises their "No Capacity Controls" pretty well to people who don't pay close attention, but in reality all three chains have "out" clauses that allow themselves to effectively install capacity controls - they just handle it differently in their systems.

SPG still has a couple of key advantages - the ability to confirm true suites on award stays, for example. But I'm definitely moving away from accumulation in SPG unless I'm teased back with something special. SPG Amex was my main mode of accumulation - that's now been shelved until a promo comes along. Perhaps I will pay $5k to the IRS with the card.

I don't think the devaluation hurt me too bad. I have just over 50k sitting in my account - enough for a 5-nighter at an "old" Cat 4. In the end, I will have gotten burned for 8k. The worst part about it has been the utter lack of communication from Starwood about this. That's offensive.

Call me crazy, but I still like SPG the best even at the higher rates. I typically stay 30 nights at SPG hotels a year and that wouldn't get me too much with Hilton or Marriott as far as status goes.
I'm not much into math, but it still seems to me that SPG is the best bang for the buck...and I've never had capacity control issues...I certainly could be persuaded to another chain if someone could make a compelling case!

I probably won't "jump ship" for good but after staying at a Hyatt Place a couple of weeks ago I'm thinking I may use them as my primary hotel in cities where they are located.

Most of my stays are at the Atlanta airport and there is now a Hyatt Place there. Very comfy rooms and beds, decent breakfast but the real perk for me is the complimentary wireless access.

I continue to have SPG and Marriott as my primaries, with selection based on various promos, proximity, and room rates at my project sites. Plus current points balances.

After blowing all my points last year, and having plenty in other programs, plus many SPG bonuses over the last 6 months, and better rates at SPG, it's been nearly exclusive for that time. I'll be close to the 50 PLT nights before too long, so I'll bias toward Marriott when I move on to another project, given relatively equal options.

The no blackout policy will cause me to continue to keep an SPG balance as a fallback in peak periods. If they ever drop that, I'll be gone as the earn/redeem ratios are worse than others. No blackouts is the crown jewel.

Well, I wouldn't say I'm jumping ship, but I was seriously considering moving more of my business to Starwood. I've been traveling more internationally and there just seemed to be more options available. I stayed 23 nights last year and had considered a 2 nighter sometime in December to get Gold. But with all the weeping and nashing of teeth here, I decided it wasn't worth it.

I did get an SPG Amx, but personally I find the new Marriott Premier Visa to be a better card (5 points at Marriotts and 2 points for travel related charges like restaurants and such, plus other goodies). With Marriott's travel package award that gives a 1 to 1 transfer to most airline FF programs, I can turn $1 spent into 2 FF miles (based on the 2 points/$ on travel expenses.)

But overall, I agree with the general sentiment here "don't get mad, get calculating". Take the emotions out and figure out which program works best for you.

I won't jump ship completely, but I've effectively changed my strategy as of 2/1:

1. Only use SPG Amex for SPG stays. Net effect for amex is loss of around $100k of spend... who knows what the impact to SPG is. Don't yet have a better card strategy for my non SPG spend, but no way I'm giving that to SPG.

2. Only will stay in SPG hotels for 50 nights, and only during promotions. Right now, I'm able to take advantage of the starry nights promo, and the NYC triple points, so pretty happy. I get about 11K pts per week so can't complain. But, after 50 nights, I'm staying somewhere else, prob Marriott or Hyatt. Net effect for SPG is probably a loss of 120 room nights a year (In NYC, thats almost 40K).

3. Didn't book anything before 2/1, so count me as a big devaluation loser. But, I'm no longer planning to stay at the "aspirational" hotels, so no lost there. I figure if I want to go some place nice, I'll just pay for it if the price is right. I'll probably give my awards to friends or family, and only at reasonable value properties.

So, no, I'm not yet giving up on SPG, but hopefully I've made a statement to them by shifting some of my business elsewhere. I know I'm a small fish to them, especially in this boom market, but it there are enough ripples in the water, they are bound feel it sooner or later.

I'll still use my SPG Amex because, well, I can accrue extra AA miles by using it.

But as far as redeeming miles for hotel stays, that will probably drop to zero. Most of the interesting cases where it made sense are going away -- but I admit that I'm willing to either step down to a 4pts, or just priceline my actual hotel stays if I am looking in an expensive area.

Steve

As an Amex Centurion SPG Plat...

I'll be taking my 10-20 high-ticket annual stays to others (mix of RC/FS/MO/Intercon/Hyatt).

It's too bad. Amex Centurion drove some of my business to SPG and now they'll lose it.

Well, I was planning a 3 day Paris vacation and stayed at a Sheraton in Nashville the week of the rate increase to get to 36000 points and reserve 3 nights at the Westin. But the points didn't post in time to the account and now the Westin requirers 20,000 points/night.
This has really put a damper on my plans (the Paris Westin is in a really amazing location and is a nice hotel) and now I'll have to stay at the LMerdien for 10,000/night (major walk to any of the big sights). So, I'm just going to collect Priority club points now. I'm Platnum on SPG, and Gold on Priority Club, and the rate I can rack up Priority club points for free nights is about 2x that of SPG. Granted though, you have to keep a watch out for all of priority club's bonus point offers hidden all over their site to rack them up quickly.

I just can not imagine how anyone is expected to save 7000 SPG points for a stay at an airport Sheraton. At an average rate of $150/night, one would have to stay at a low end Sheraton nearly 25 nights just to get 1 free night at most airport hotels. I racked up enough points this last week at Priority Club by staying 7 days at a $70/night Holiday Inn Express to get a free night at just about any Holiday Inn. And the Holiday Inn Express bed was nearly as good as the sweet sleeper.

Additionally, I've found the price for Sheratons have increased considerably relative to other hotels in the places I travel. This may be one reason why the point values dropped. A free night simply costs more against the bottom line than it use to, and unless Four Point hotels become more numerous and stop being as high end as most Sheratons, I can't justify the expense vs other airport hotel brands (Hampton Inn, Fairfield Inns, etc) on business travels.

-W

I won't drop Starwood entirely, but I'm definitely decreasing use of its hotels and its Amex card in favor of competitors. My first opportunity to act on this in a major way comes up in a few weeks, when I'll be staying for about 10days at a Hyatt rather than Le Meridien.

Whooohooo!!!

I sure hope, and THANK YOU, to all you disgruntled SPG Plat who want to defect. You are doing those of us Plat who want to remain a BIG FAVOR. We will have better upgrades for starter, and who knows, may be SPG will cater to us a bit more? Remember that Starwood Lurker is on this board, and he's lurking ^ :p

Whooohooo!!!

I sure hope, and THANK YOU, to all you disgruntled SPG Plat who want to defect. You are doing those of us Plat who want to remain a BIG FAVOR. We will have better upgrades for starter, and who knows, may be SPG will cater to us a bit more? Remember that Starwood Lurker is on this board, and he's lurking ^ :p

Arent you "celebrating" a little two early?:rolleyes:

I think the OP expected more defectors than have posted on this thread so far ( in fact it appears to have the opposite result) .

Go far I have counted only one definately leaving.

mike

Whooohooo!!!

I sure hope, and THANK YOU, to all you disgruntled SPG Plat who want to defect. You are doing those of us Plat who want to remain a BIG FAVOR. We will have better upgrades for starter, and who knows, may be SPG will cater to us a bit more? Remember that Starwood Lurker is on this board, and he's lurking ^ :p

Why would SPG "cater to us a bit more" if some people leave the program? Do you think there's a limited supply of "goodness" in SPG and if others leave you'll get their share???

And I'm not sure what the Lurker has to do with this. Do you think that he is the mastermind in charge of redistributing SPG Goodness or are you suggesting he may track down defectors and inflict bodily harm? :D :p :rolleyes:

(in case it's the latter, note to William: I didn't say I was going to leave. I'm the sole support of my family...I wanna live!!!)

As an Amex Centurion SPG Plat...

I'll be taking my 10-20 high-ticket annual stays to others (mix of RC/FS/MO/Intercon/Hyatt).

It's too bad. Amex Centurion drove some of my business to SPG and now they'll lose it.

The Centurion Plat benefit first got me stay at Starwood but losing the Plat benefit ended all that. I was not a huge customer. I had 24 nights in 2006 but it looks like 0 nights for 2007. I moved all my hotel business to Hilton. I still have the SPG Amex card since the SPG program is like a mileage bank for airline travel. I move out 20000 SPG points for the 5000 point bonus whenever I need miles.

As an Amex Centurion SPG Plat...

I'll be taking my 10-20 high-ticket annual stays to others (mix of RC/FS/MO/Intercon/Hyatt).

It's too bad. Amex Centurion drove some of my business to SPG and now they'll lose it.

Same here.
Byebye St Regis, Hello MO.

Same here.
Byebye St Regis, Hello MO.

I too had the Plat status for quite a number of years on account of Amex Centurion. However the thought of losing it actually made me stay at *woods in order to re-qualify. So far it is still the best program with regards to benefits during a stay. The upgrade policy works quite well (as opposed to HH..).

I'm actually moving nights to Starwood this year, particularly as its competitors get increasingly stingy about award availability.

Mike

Call me crazy, but I still like SPG the best even at the higher rates. I typically stay 30 nights at SPG hotels a year and that wouldn't get me too much with Hilton or Marriott as far as status goes.
I'm not much into math, but it still seems to me that SPG is the best bang for the buck...and I've never had capacity control issues...I certainly could be persuaded to another chain if someone could make a compelling case!

Hard to make a compelling case without knowing specific cities, brands, etc.

As for the math, my valuations are based on relatively conservative numbers - HH = 0.8c, MR = 1c, SPG (post-2/1) = 2.5c. Everybody's own math will vary based on what they'd otherwise spend on hotels in a world without points.

For 30 nights per year, you're almost in the worst spot possible for Marriott - that's a very high Silver, and everybody is Silver. If you were reliably over 35 nts/yr., it's a better story, as Marriott does tend to take pretty good care of Golds.

At HH, you'd probably be a Gold - either with a fast-track or HH Amex spending - before you spent the 30 nights. That's pretty good - lounge access, free breakfast, etc.

But this is where your specific cities are important. If you are already doing 30 nights with Starwood - and you're happy with the hotels themselves - chances are good that one or more of those destinations doesn't have a kick*ss Hilton sitting next door. The HH network has a huge number of properties - but a small number of really outstanding properties. If you're used to Sheratons, it's probably no big deal - the average Sheraton and the average Hilton are interchangeable. But if you are used to the more unique properties in the SPG network - say, some of the better W Hotels - you'd be looking at a step down to HH in a lot of markets.

And if you're used to St. Regis, you probably could care less about hotel points - as far as I'm concerned, HH does not have anything really built out to compete with that. Maybe 5 years from now we'll see a bigger network of Waldorf Collection hotels - I don't know.

Pretty much jumped ship last year. Did have 10 stays to remain Gold this year. Basically SPG is my 3rd choice now. Hyatt is #1 and Hilton is #2. Got comped to Hyatt Diamond, which I used to be many years ago and really loving it, the customer service is fantastic. Actually my Hilton Gold stays especially in Germany have been excellent as well.

No regrets so far. Certainly there are properties I'll miss staying at, but then I guess if I really miss them that much I can always spend the $$ to do so. But in most cases Hyatt has an equivalent or better property in the location (Hawaii & Scottsdale were always big redemption places for me).

The last year the suite upgrade had almost completely disappeared as a Platinum benefit, so the only thing I'll miss this year being Gold vs. Platinum is the 500 points per stay (on the few times that SPG is the only choice).

I'm like GUWonder.. Am a Platinum SPG member but with the new reward structure, I'm not sure if its worth it as opposed to Marriott Rewards. Sorry fellas but I'm on a dungy roped to the SPG ship getting ready to cut loose.

I'm actually moving nights to Starwood this year, particularly as its competitors get increasingly stingy about award availability.

Same here. The changes will definitely decrease Starpoint value, but the promotions have helped to offset that, and I still feel the overall SPG program is better, which is why they got my Freddie vote.

In contrast at HHonors, I saw less upgrades (even to Executive level), stingy MyWay preferences (especially compared to the SPG Platinum Amenity) and decreased service for Diamonds, so they'll likely only get Gold out of me this year (which is not all that different from Diamond anyway). I'll probably move most of my Hilton stays to SPG and Hyatt instead.

I'm not a PM and rarely travel for business. This will most likely affect me when travelling in Hawaii or Europe leisurely. Previously, when I am paying, I'll try to squeeze in a couple SPG to get more points. Now that's points are not as important, and for the amount of money, I'd feel less 'guilty' checking into FS or MO. Esp in Hawaii, most SPG are grossly inflated.

All the devaluation talk made me shop. This week I chose the Hyatt Century City instead of an SPG hotel (even with the 1k LA bonus). The Hyatt g2 bonus of 2,000 points was a big factor.

Realistically speaking, I can't say I'll be "jumping ship", primarily because the other ships out there don't offer much better. Each program has it's unique advantages and disadvantages, and strengths in various geographies. Since I travel all over, I am at least minimally elite in all of the major programs. But maybe since I wasn't an super-platinum loyal elite, I don't feel as "betrayed" as many of you.

A price jump in terms of points was bound to happen at some point--once people get over it, I think they will again recognize the unique strengths that SPG has, one of them being able to get suite upgrades with points. (what other program allows you to get anything but a standard room with an award?)

Not yet. But last year I made Platinum via 20/50, this year it's not clear that I'll make Platinum. I've added Hyatt/Summerfield/Amerisuites to compete against Sheraton/4P and Homewood/Hampton for my one-night leisure stays. Bonus offers from each program will definitely come into play.

but certainly agree with other posters - there aren't many options really IMHO, but clearly the new redemption hurts...
Time to 're-sweeten' the pot?

I have not abandoned ship, and I will not move elsewhere altogether. However, my consideration of properties has changed.

It the past, I only checked Starwood hotels. I comparison-shopped within the family of hotels. I booked that which worked out best for me. I have not stayed at another hotel (in a city where Starwood has a property) in a long time.

However, now I am going to be a much-more diligent shopper. I will be moving my business around based on prices and promos offered by the various chains.

Why does SPG hate us so much? :(

Hard to make a compelling case without knowing specific cities, brands, etc.

As for the math, my valuations are based on relatively conservative numbers - HH = 0.8c, MR = 1c, SPG (post-2/1) = 2.5c. Everybody's own math will vary based on what they'd otherwise spend on hotels in a world without points.

For 30 nights per year, you're almost in the worst spot possible for Marriott - that's a very high Silver, and everybody is Silver. If you were reliably over 35 nts/yr., it's a better story, as Marriott does tend to take pretty good care of Golds.

At HH, you'd probably be a Gold - either with a fast-track or HH Amex spending - before you spent the 30 nights. That's pretty good - lounge access, free breakfast, etc.

But this is where your specific cities are important. If you are already doing 30 nights with Starwood - and you're happy with the hotels themselves - chances are good that one or more of those destinations doesn't have a kick*ss Hilton sitting next door. The HH network has a huge number of properties - but a small number of really outstanding properties. If you're used to Sheratons, it's probably no big deal - the average Sheraton and the average Hilton are interchangeable. But if you are used to the more unique properties in the SPG network - say, some of the better W Hotels - you'd be looking at a step down to HH in a lot of markets.

And if you're used to St. Regis, you probably could care less about hotel points - as far as I'm concerned, HH does not have anything really built out to compete with that. Maybe 5 years from now we'll see a bigger network of Waldorf Collection hotels - I don't know.

Pinniped,
Thanks for the input. I appreciate the honest feeback without being degrading (even though I told you you could call me crazy?!?!):-)
I think I'm in a unique situation. I travel for work almost exclusively in my territory (9 States in the Midwest). My company really frowns on spending a lot of money on hotels (they try to keep us under $125/night...UGH!) So what I end up doing is using our company rates to stay at SPG properties for around that price. The reason SPG works well for me is I usually get more points from Platinum bonuses and promotions that I do from actual dollars spent.
That being said my wife and I usually take one adults only vacation and one vacation with the family every year. SPG 50% redemption is a great tool for that and platinum status usually gets us a suite so we have some room for the kids cribs/stuff. In addition, I think SPG's high end hotels (Westins, W's, Luxury Collection, Le Meridien's, etc.) are SIGNIFICANTLY better than Marriott and Hiltons.
My second program is Hyatt I have accumulated a lot of FFN's and redeemed them and currently have 200K+ points....trying to save them up for a big family vacation in Hawaii...and the price keeps going up!
Anyhow, I think it's all a personal situation and I think my situation is best with SPG...if anyone think's I'm missing the boat somewhere else, please let me know...I'm open to suggestions!

Leaving for good? No.

Directing significantly less business to Starwood? Yes, absolutely.

Realistically speaking, I can't say I'll be "jumping ship", primarily because the other ships out there don't offer much better. Each program has it's unique advantages and disadvantages, and strengths in various geographies. Since I travel all over, I am at least minimally elite in all of the major programs. But maybe since I wasn't an super-platinum loyal elite, I don't feel as "betrayed" as many of you.

A price jump in terms of points was bound to happen at some point--once people get over it, I think they will again recognize the unique strengths that SPG has, one of them being able to get suite upgrades with points. (what other program allows you to get anything but a standard room with an award?)

You can book suites at Hyatt using points, although it is a three night minimum stay.

As many have stated, SPG took a big turn for the worse. I am looking to switch my business.

Also, I no longer tell friends and family about "the best hotel loyalty program and credit card" any more. I truly hope SPG will reconsider the changes and return the program to its greatness. If inflation is the driving force, then a point inflation in line with the national average would be fair.

- A former big fan of SPG

Pinniped,
Thanks for the input. I appreciate the honest feeback without being degrading (even though I told you you could call me crazy?!?!):-)
I think I'm in a unique situation. I travel for work almost exclusively in my territory (9 States in the Midwest). My company really frowns on spending a lot of money on hotels (they try to keep us under $125/night...UGH!) So what I end up doing is using our company rates to stay at SPG properties for around that price. The reason SPG works well for me is I usually get more points from Platinum bonuses and promotions that I do from actual dollars spent.
That being said my wife and I usually take one adults only vacation and one vacation with the family every year. SPG 50% redemption is a great tool for that and platinum status usually gets us a suite so we have some room for the kids cribs/stuff. In addition, I think SPG's high end hotels (Westins, W's, Luxury Collection, Le Meridien's, etc.) are SIGNIFICANTLY better than Marriott and Hiltons.
My second program is Hyatt I have accumulated a lot of FFN's and redeemed them and currently have 200K+ points....trying to save them up for a big family vacation in Hawaii...and the price keeps going up!
Anyhow, I think it's all a personal situation and I think my situation is best with SPG...if anyone think's I'm missing the boat somewhere else, please let me know...I'm open to suggestions!

Well, if your company has good ties to SPG (especially at such a good price point like $125!), then I don't think you're missing the boat somewhere else: to get to that price point with HH or MR, you're looking at less-than-FS brands.

And it sounds like you enjoy the high-end hotels (Lux Collection, etc.) for awards - MR and HH both have nice hotels, but they don't have nearly as much variety and character at unique properties like Starwood does. So you're probably best served sticking with SPG - look on the bright side: lots of good props went 4 -> 5, and that's only a 20% hit outside of peak season.

You can book suites at Hyatt using points, although it is a three night minimum stay.

Thank you. Good to know.

...And I'm not sure what the Lurker has to do with this. Do you think that he is the mastermind in charge of redistributing SPG Goodness or are you suggesting he may track down defectors and inflict bodily harm? :D :p :rolleyes:

(in case it's the latter, note to William: I didn't say I was going to leave. I'm the sole support of my family...I wanna live!!!)

LOL. Everyone is safe, if they should decide to leave SPG or not. We appreciate when your choice is Starwood and Starwood Preferred Guest; however, we realize it is by voluntary participation and you must weigh the benefits or lack thereof.

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

SPG has slipped far behind Marriott and Hilton comparing apples-to-apples. The raw earning power on revenue stays is much higher at the other two.


While I agree that these moves close the gap, I haven't seen anything that would cause me to believe that Hilton has either the quality of properties nor the services to match SPG (this is from someone who travelled exclusively with Hilton for many years).


The SPG Amex has now fallen roughly in line with HH Amex.

SPG Amex offers a 25% bonus when travelling to airlines. HH miles suffer massive dilution when moving to an airline. I don't see this as equal.

You've been around here longer than me, but I respectfully disagree with these statements.

I am not leaving for good, but those cat 5->6 jumps are quite painful.

SPG Amex offers a 25% bonus when travelling to airlines. HH miles suffer massive dilution when moving to an airline. I don't see this as equal.

I don't see it as a "25% bonus" - I see it as a raw deal except in very extreme circumstances. The currencies are not equal, so the fact that it's 1 -> 1.25 is misleading. I think even the most diehard SPG fans here agree that burning their Starpoints for air miles is a bad deal unless it's an urgent award need.

Sure, HH is even worse, but again, it's never remotely entered my mind to swap those points for air miles.

The only decent hotel to air miles deal going is with Marriott, where you are earning 17-18 per dollar on stays and moving 120,000 of them at one time at 1:1.

Agree with your point about the top end: Starwood's Cat 6 & 7 has more character and variety than either Hilton's or Marriott's. Even in the middle category, HH and MR have more volume whereas Starwood seems to have more flavor/uniqueness. (It's a tradeoff: in a different context, I praise Marriott for its consistency.) I'm mainly talking about earning power when I say HH and MR are superior - not so much the properties themselves.

Arent you "celebrating" a little two early?:rolleyes:

I think the OP expected more defectors than have posted on this thread so far ( in fact it appears to have the opposite result) .

Go far I have counted only one definately leaving.

mike

Yeah, I was afraid that I was indeed celebrating a bit too early.

It looks like all talk but no action, e.g. too few defectors from the SPG program :D

Yeah, I was afraid that I was indeed celebrating a bit too early.

It looks like all talk but no action, e.g. too few defectors from the SPG program :D

I don't know...I think when the emotion fades, it's a lot of people scaling back a bit but still playing the game where it makes sense. But that's us - FT'ers - people who actively "play the game". Very few will totally walk 100% away from any one program.

Like I mentioned on one of the other threads, I think Starwood re-baselined the credit card market on 2/1/07 moreso than the hotel market.

.....SPG Amex offers a 25% bonus when travelling to airlines. HH miles suffer massive dilution when moving to an airline. I don't see this as equal.

But if you use the points for hotel stays the Hilton Amex gives 5 HH points/$ on gas, grocery stores, and restaurants. 5HH points is valued as more than 1 SPG by most people. Not all, but most.

So with the changes in SPG devaluation and that a couple airlines no longer are 1:1 (maybe more next time) SPG card is looking less appealing.

I just started moving over to SPG last year and now I'm thinking I missed the boat...

I'll stick with SPG as part of my hotel "portfolio"...but will continue to watch for promos on earning and redeeming. SPG has some GREAT properties, especially LeMeridien hotels.

I like the staff and most things at spg and how it is more than easy to get gold in some ways you can even get it for free. But the thing that does not work for me is the shearton sleeper bed I have never had a decent night sleep on it compared to hiltons and marriots. So to make a long story short I will probaly stay with spg till my gold expires next year

I'm off - as I have said here before - because the scheme has changed so that it doesn't really deliver the upgrades it promises anymore.

Hyatt are doing a double qualification offer at some of its new properties, and after I'm done over there I'll chase Hilton Diamond.

BTW - Am using up my SPG points to top off airline programmes so I can cash in old miles before the new 18 month airline mile expiring comes in.

In my case, there will probably be no impact on my travel pattern as the combination of my three frequent guest programs still enables me, most of the time, to select the best performing property (my criteria do vary) across a good selection of hotel (this can vary a lot, depending on the time in the year). In this respect, the integration of Le Meridien is very positive. It is just that it may take me about 40% more time and money to earn the same number of award nights in my favorite hotels. Really unpleasant and unwelcome, but not significantly more than the "fine tuning" of perks in my other loyalty programs ...

I don't see it as a "25% bonus" - I see it as a raw deal except in very extreme circumstances. The currencies are not equal, so the fact that it's 1 -> 1.25 is misleading. I think even the most diehard SPG fans here agree that burning their Starpoints for air miles is a bad deal unless it's an urgent award need.

Sure, HH is even worse, but again, it's never remotely entered my mind to swap those points for air miles.

The only decent hotel to air miles deal going is with Marriott, where you are earning 17-18 per dollar on stays and moving 120,000 of them at one time at 1:1.

Agree with your point about the top end: Starwood's Cat 6 & 7 has more character and variety than either Hilton's or Marriott's. Even in the middle category, HH and MR have more volume whereas Starwood seems to have more flavor/uniqueness. (It's a tradeoff: in a different context, I praise Marriott for its consistency.) I'm mainly talking about earning power when I say HH and MR are superior - not so much the properties themselves.



No question HH has more volume in the mid-tiers. However, I think that a large number of people have the desire to redeem their points for destination properties. SPG doesn't have 5 properties in Cincinnati, but they do have higher quality properties in most destination areas than Hilton does. So, while the Hampton Inn every 15 miles makes it easier to amass points in the HH program, you still have fewer choices for viable destination properties in Hilton than in SPG, IMO. Also, it's just my personal preference, but if I spend all year staying in hotels for business that are the likes of a 4 points or Hampton Inn, I want to stay at the Hotel Danieli when I go on vacation. :cool:

I am definetely not going anywhere...I love *wood and its program...absolutely the best choice especially when travelling internationally!

No question HH has more volume in the mid-tiers. However, I think that a large number of people have the desire to redeem their points for destination properties. SPG doesn't have 5 properties in Cincinnati, but they do have higher quality properties in most destination areas than Hilton does. So, while the Hampton Inn every 15 miles makes it easier to amass points in the HH program, you still have fewer choices for viable destination properties in Hilton than in SPG, IMO. Also, it's just my personal preference, but if I spend all year staying in hotels for business that are the likes of a 4 points or Hampton Inn, I want to stay at the Hotel Danieli when I go on vacation. :cool:

Confession: I actually redeemed HH points in the 'Nati. :o Last-minute decision to run the Flying Pig Marathon - the whole city was nearly sold out. (I actually checked SPG and MR first.) I called HH, and they let me redeem 25k for one night at the Hilton downtown. (Nice art deco style hotel, BTW.) I'm thankful that that one small test of "no capacity controls for Golds" passed.

I'm with you - I like quality properties on vacation stays. In some destinations that means I look for local boutiques, in others it means I look to redeem awards in one of the large chains. In places where I like staying at MR/HH/SPG (usually resort destinations or in a major city other than in Europe), I generally find that not all 3 are represented exactly where I want to go. So I will continue to stay at least somewhat active in all three programs.

I've relieved myself of the Starwood Amex--there's room for another card from my stack to be put in my wallet now.

As far as SPG, I can't leave a program that I never really embraced in the first place and it costs me nothing to have them send me the Gold card in the exaggerated packaging each year.

---
Edited to add this bizarre coincidence...within 30 minutes of me making this post, this note arrived in my e-mail: Congratulations on Your Gold Status Renewal. Welcome to elite status in the Starwood Preferred Guest® program for 2007, and thank you for your loyalty.
---

Me favors Hilton as always.

send me the Gold card in the exaggerated packaging each year.

Sidebar: I've always sort of wondered why they even bother to mail MR Silver, HH Silver, or SPG Gold cards. They are not real statuses. Wouldn't it save them money to not bother? Or have their marketing folks determined that enough people like getting pretty cards in the mail that the net brand effect is positive. (That is, more people see the cards and are reminded of the brand than are annoyed by getting junk mail.)

I guess I'm in that category - I usually *do* read junk mail from my airline/hotel programs. Do most people?

So, to summarize, at 56 posts into this thread I count 5 "I'm leaving for good" and quite a number of "I'll look more closely" comments.

So, to summarize, at 56 posts into this thread I count 5 "I'm leaving for good" and quite a number of "I'll look more closely" comments.

"Looking more closely" means that they will be staying. Yeah, looks like my "celebration" was premature. I was hoping that the disgruntled would be leaving in drove so that we're one big happy Starwood family again :D :cool:

Confession: I actually redeemed HH points in the 'Nati. :o


Ewwwwwwww! I used to travel to Cincy on business pretty regularly and couldn't wait to find my way back out again.


(Nice art deco style hotel, BTW.)

Are you sure? Cincinnati? Just South of Columbus and North of Hades?


So I will continue to stay at least somewhat active in all three programs.

Agree with this strongly. I'm keeping my fingers in SPG, MR and HH, although to be honest, I'll probably greatly reduce HH once I use up the last 100K of points I have. I think you can travel pretty comfortably between the SPG and Marriott families and find a good property in most destinations using points.

Ewwwwwwww! I used to travel to Cincy on business pretty regularly and couldn't wait to find my way back out again.


Well, I have spent a grand total of 1 night there in my life. :) Flew into CVG, took the 26.2-mile foot tour, and then drove to IND for the flight home. I recall being annoyed that MCI-CVG R/T was about eight hundred bucks on DL, but a MCI-CVG-IND one-way on DL and IND-ORD-MCI one-way on UA were about $75 each.

That big Cincinnati airport was so confusing, I never did find my CVG-IND flight. ;) (By the way, Alamo has/had no drop charges amongst a few of those airports in Ohio/Indiana.)

Cincinnati is a frickin' hilly place, if anyone is wondering.

Are you sure? Cincinnati? Just South of Columbus and North of Hades?

Yep - some Hilton that had just been completely renovated. I think it's the only one downtown. They did a nice job with it.

I'll probably greatly reduce HH once I use up the last 100K of points I have. I think you can travel pretty comfortably between the SPG and Marriott families and find a good property in most destinations using points.

And since you're an AA guy, you can always get more HH in a pinch if you absolutely need to. The HH->AA conversion is brutal, but the AA->HH conversion is acceptable if you really need HH points fast.

Reading all these threads bashing *wood for what I think is an outrageous redemption hike and a lot of folks giving wood the boot. I for one will stick it through also bcs I only have *points for their airline redemption value. Should that drastically change (like CO) then Im gone for good.

So, how many are you going to leave *wood based on whatever reason?

Lurker, might want to track this thread if it gets out of control!!;)


Clearly I was suprised at the huge increases in redemptions. Many cat 4s are now cat 6. That is huge for many here. Basically they are doing what the airlines do...they devalue your points. Overall I have been hugely supportive of starwood using the credit card for huge volumes. I am looking at some other things now.

Rob

"Looking more closely" means that they will be staying.

I don't think so. Savvy FTers keep abreast of all the major (i.e. big 3 or 4) programs.

Savvy FTers don't keep abreast of all programs, but savvy FTers will: 1) pay attention to other FTers (e.g., you) to help ascertain which program makes more sense for today than say last month; and 2) research/follow a few more programs than the typical non-FT traveller.

For example, I invest a bit more than the typical traveller (on or off FT) to keep aware of what's going on, but I by myself would still have trouble staying on top of even the biggest five or six hotel programs.

All said, you are 100% correct that "looking more closely" does not equate with "staying" with Starwood in the same sort of way that was the case pre-mega-devaluation. That is, people are shopping around more, and I certainly encourage others who are not yet there to do the same -- for it's not about what we can do for Starwood, it's about what Starwood can do for us.

I for one will be staying with the program as I have never really considered the points collection of the program to be all that interesting. I have always felt that points collection leads to economically unsound decision making.

I do however value:

(1) the plat benefits
and
(2) William

The combination of the two keeps me loyal.

The W/Westin beds are the only reason i stay with spg......are there any hotels that have beds as close to comfortable? if so, i will leave spg. if not, i will stay, no matter how high they jack up the points, because the only thing i use the *wood points for is going on vacation and making sure i stay at a w/westin for the beds.

I for one will be staying with the program as I have never really considered the points collection of the program to be all that interesting. I have always felt that points collection leads to economically unsound decision making.

I do however value:

(1) the plat benefits
and
(2) William

The combination of the two keeps me loyal.
I have to agree, points are going up every where. Hilton just changed rewards last year. MY reward stays are all cat 4 or less.

The W/Westin beds are the only reason i stay with spg......are there any hotels that have beds as close to comfortable?

Yes, of course. Have you ever slept in a Sheraton Sweet Sleeper bed? Just as comfortable. But they are also part of SPG!

I spent right at 200 nights in *wood properties in 2006, I would have stayed many more nights but due to *wood promos based on stays - not nights - I had to check out of my *wood home-away-from-home and stay at competitor hotels on numerous occasions.

I'm getting ready to start an approx 50 consecutive night stay at a *wood, there's a good chance by the time 2007 is over I will have stayed more nights than in 2006.

That being said my only request - and so far it's fallen on deaf ears - is that *wood offer some promos based on nights - NOT stays. At least in my case these stays-based promos are costing *wood a lot of money.

I for one will be staying with the program as I have never really considered the points collection of the program to be all that interesting. I have always felt that points collection leads to economically unsound decision making.

I do however value:

(1) the plat benefits
and
(2) William

The combination of the two keeps me loyal.

Well put cbellero. I want to expand a bit on your points for the reasons for my staying put:

1) the plat benefits, specifically the ability to book award rooms at practically anytime (the upgrades are OK, but inconsistent)

2) the Heavenly and SweetSleeper beds

3) some really cool top end properties that SPG has

4) William

5) The Platinum Concierge

Being able to use the points for free night is merely the baseline benefit. Otherwise, what's the point (pun intended) of a loyalty program?

And like the cost of things, the amount of points needed will increase (or not increase as fast) depending on the overall global economic condition. So that's life.

I spent right at 200 nights in *wood properties in 2006, I would have stayed many more nights but due to *wood promos based on stays - not nights - I had to check out of my *wood home-away-from-home and stay at competitor hotels on numerous occasions.

I'm getting ready to start an approx 50 consecutive night stay at a *wood, there's a good chance by the time 2007 is over I will have stayed more nights than in 2006.

That being said my only request - and so far it's fallen on deaf ears - is that *wood offer some promos based on nights - NOT stays. At least in my case these stays-based promos are costing *wood a lot of money.

I have a recommendation for you: move your business over to Marriott, where they richly reward you for number of nights stay.

With your pattern of stay, you could be in their Presidential Suites a lot :D

I have a recommendation for you: move your business over to Marriott, where they richly reward you for number of nights stay.

With your pattern of stay, you could be in their Presidential Suites a lot :D

Now now-let's not fill his/her head with promises which may-or more likely-may not be fulfilled!
Marriott is very poor when it comes to upgrades to a standard suite,let alone a presidentiol suite.

I spent right at 200 nights in *wood properties in 2006, .

My goodness... and i thought i didnt have a life, glad someone out there can beat me to this unsavory stat. ^

William is certainly a great resource BUT IME *wood CS has always been TOP NOTCH and have yet to utilize Lurker. That said I do not have CS experience in the other mass-chain Hotels offering programs.

I won't jump ship completely, but I've effectively changed my strategy as of 2/1:

1. Only use SPG Amex for SPG stays. Net effect for amex is loss of around $100k of spend... who knows what the impact to SPG is. Don't yet have a better card strategy for my non SPG spend, but no way I'm giving that to SPG.

2. Only will stay in SPG hotels for 50 nights, and only during promotions. Right now, I'm able to take advantage of the starry nights promo, and the NYC triple points, so pretty happy. I get about 11K pts per week so can't complain. But, after 50 nights, I'm staying somewhere else, prob Marriott or Hyatt. Net effect for SPG is probably a loss of 120 room nights a year (In NYC, thats almost 40K).

3. Didn't book anything before 2/1, so count me as a big devaluation loser. But, I'm no longer planning to stay at the "aspirational" hotels, so no lost there. I figure if I want to go some place nice, I'll just pay for it if the price is right. I'll probably give my awards to friends or family, and only at reasonable value properties.

So, no, I'm not yet giving up on SPG, but hopefully I've made a statement to them by shifting some of my business elsewhere. I know I'm a small fish to them, especially in this boom market, but it there are enough ripples in the water, they are bound feel it sooner or later.
Why do you cap your SPG stays at 50 nights? Is there a hidden threshold at 50 nights or something?

Why do you cap your SPG stays at 50 nights? Is there a hidden threshold at 50 nights or something?

50 nights = Plat status - nothing above that. May as well move over to another chain and work on attaning status with them instead.

My goodness... and i thought i didnt have a life, glad someone out there can beat me to this unsavory stat. ^

Fortunately my 200 nights isn't nearly as "unsavory" as it sounds, I work a 4 days on/4 days off schedule and during my off days I choose to go home and not stay at the hotel (i.e. my employer pays for my hotel room even when it's sitting empty for 4 days).

I have a recommendation for you: move your business over to Marriott, where they richly reward you for number of nights stay.

With your pattern of stay, you could be in their Presidential Suites a lot :D

To be honest upgrades aren't important to me, except on that rare occasion when my family is with me. What I'm looking for from a hotel loyalty program is a generous rewards program that gives me the choice of converting their points to airline miles, I know many FTers will cringe when they read this but through the years I've converted all of my SPG points into miles - none have been used for free hotel stays.

You are right!I am cringing!
I have a friend who does the same-just won't listen to me when I opine about the value of free nights versus airfare----but too each their own.

i'm leaving, the devaluation is just too large

To all who are leaving... we'll miss your posts and contributions. Good luck with your other hotel programs and I hope you have fun posting in those forum's!

You are right!I am cringing!
I have a friend who does the same-just won't listen to me when I opine about the value of free nights versus airfare----but too each their own.

For someone who does not travel enough for work to become platinum, I usually can get 4* hotels for great prices through priceline or hotwire, whereas I can't get discounts when it comes to airfares especially to international destinations, so with the 1.25% bonus, airline transfers make a lot of sense to me.

Now now-let's not fill his/her head with promises which may-or more likely-may not be fulfilled!
Marriott is very poor when it comes to upgrades to a standard suite,let alone a presidentiol suite.

Well my boss and another colleague of mine are Marriott Platinums and I have been invited to hang out in their very large suites, including the Presidential one, a few times at quite a few Marriotts in the US already.

They always wonder why I do not stay exclusively at Marriott like they do :D

i'm leaving, the devaluation is just too large

Like danwhy said in his post, good luck and good ridance.

Like danwhy said in his post, good luck and good ridance.

Hopefully not, for even FTers who won't use Starwood/SPG as much going forward still have valuable information to share.

I've officially abandoned ship and am now served quite well by the SS Priceline. I have to watch my costs (not paid by client) and the "math" no longer justifies my spending so many extra $ for increasingly decreased value points. Just can't get it to pencil out unless some ultra-special promo comes along giving free nights (as opposed to extra points). I'm most loyal to Hyatt because they at least have Faster Free Nights promos on a regular basis. I'll pay the full rate for those!

Like danwhy said in his post, good luck and good ridance.

I did not say good riddance, please don't read into my posts!

I am starting to de-emphasize *wood. Using their Amex was an excellent deal when many nice+ hotels in places where I wanted to go were Cat. 1 & 2. Now that those hotels are 3s & my favorite 3s (Vancouver, Toronto) are 4s, no sense in making my merchants pay higher fees when I can get Hyatt points from my DC or use my Marriott Visa for restaurants & airline tickets.

Like danwhy said in his post, good luck and good ridance.

good riddance? (and yep, two d's I think) to smunky?, who posts an average of 0.05 generally-sociable posts per day? :confused:

Hang around all you wish, smunky.

I spent right at 200 nights in *wood properties in 2006, I would have stayed many more nights but due to *wood promos based on stays - not nights - I had to check out of my *wood home-away-from-home and stay at competitor hotels on numerous occasions.

....

That being said my only request - and so far it's fallen on deaf ears - is that *wood offer some promos based on nights - NOT stays. At least in my case these stays-based promos are costing *wood a lot of money.

Same situation here, I hate packing and checking out just to get those promo points.


Back to the OT.
I will not completely jump ship and for the next month I will keep staying in the same "Home away from Home" hotel. (for other reasons than points)
But once the project is over and I will be looking for the next "home" chances for *wood to become this place are lower, due to the lower value of points in my personal which hotel to choose equation.

So if so many are leaving *Wood, where are you going, and what benefits outweigh even the modified version of SPG?