American Express Membership Rewards - Green card not acceptable for business travel

I travel each week for business. My company is very good about reimbursing me for those expenses, usually within 1-2 weeks.

Over Christmas, I made some large charges to my Amex green card. This is also the card I use for business travel. I've always paid my bills on time since I've had the card. Now Amex is dunning me via phone and telling me I need to pay next month's bill (which isn't due until Feb. 21) now.

I explained to them that I had a vacation, Christmas and a large purchase in December plus business travel of about $3K a month. Their response was pay now and they don't care that your using your green card for reimbursable business travel which they're not going to take into account when they figure how much you've got outstanding.. They tell me I should get another corporate green card (which means more annual fee$) to take care of business travel expenses. Basically they're statement was don't use the green card for business expenses.

This must be a change in their attitudes towards personal green cards, which I've had off and on for years. Used to be they'd take reimbursable business expenses into account. But I guess not anymore!

I'm going to ditch Amex and use my Visa card from here on out. It's just not worth it wondering if I am going to get dunned by them and be able to use my card.

I explained to them that I had a vacation, Christmas and a large purchase in December plus business travel of about $3K a month. Their response was pay now and they don't care that your using your green card for reimbursable business travel which they're not going to take into account when they figure how much you've got outstanding.. They tell me I should get another corporate green card (which means more annual fee$) to take care of business travel expenses. Basically they're statement was don't use the green card for business expenses.


They don't have to care that YOU are getting reimbursed, that is really not their problem - it's yours. As far Amex is concerned it is YOU that owes them money, not your company.

I think they're concerned that you've put a lot of charges through which may be over their comfort zone for you.

BTW, why doesn't your company have a corporate charge card (they should be assuming the fee for that)?

As many of us know, the charge cards are not without a limit, just with no preset limit ...

I charged my wedding on my AMEX Platinum card and ran into trouble with AMEX because I accumulated a very large balance in relation to previous balances on the card during this month and they unceremoniously cut off all new charges, but they didn't really ask that I pay it, just told me I couldn't charge any more until I did.

I complained about this and they ended up giving me 10,000 MR points, especially because I had some siginficant issues with CSR's during the whole thing (it happened late at night in Detroit when I was trying to pick up a rental car and I had lost my Diners Club card a few days prior, setting off the entire chain of events).

I travel each week for business. My company is very good about reimbursing me for those expenses, usually within 1-2 weeks.

Over Christmas, I made some large charges to my Amex green card. This is also the card I use for business travel. I've always paid my bills on time since I've had the card. Now Amex is dunning me via phone and telling me I need to pay next month's bill (which isn't due until Feb. 21) now.

I explained to them that I had a vacation, Christmas and a large purchase in December plus business travel of about $3K a month. Their response was pay now and they don't care that your using your green card for reimbursable business travel which they're not going to take into account when they figure how much you've got outstanding.. They tell me I should get another corporate green card (which means more annual fee$) to take care of business travel expenses. Basically they're statement was don't use the green card for business expenses.

This must be a change in their attitudes towards personal green cards, which I've had off and on for years. Used to be they'd take reimbursable business expenses into account. But I guess not anymore!

I'm going to ditch Amex and use my Visa card from here on out. It's just not worth it wondering if I am going to get dunned by them and be able to use my card.

I use a personal green card for business expenses and frequently have 5-figure bills. I never pay by the "due date" since I'm still waiting for reimbursement, but always by the time the next statement closes. Never a problem.

It's the #1 reason I continue to keep an AMEX. I used to have a PLT card, but I decided to get rid of it as the only perk I used was the airline clubs and it's cheaper for me to buy a membership from NW.

Wow--I've never heard of this happening before. My spending patterns are erratic (and I am using my Plat card less these days) but like Rich MSN, I sometimes have bills in the 5 figure range and Amex has never made it a problem.

I wonder if you can avoid this in the future by giving them a call and warning them in advance when big or unusual charges are coming up. (Kind of like how you would give any cc co. a call if you are anticipating a change from your normal spending pattern--going abroad, making a big purchase, etc...)

This must be a change in their attitudes towards personal green cards,

I dont think the colour of the card is an issue. I went green/gold/platinum in the UK. Can't remember at which point, but someone from Amex UK told me the "secret" limit had nothing to do with the colour of the card. The limit was just based on what they knew about you and your and expenditure pattern.

I never had a problem with them, but it did burst my bubble a bit. I'd rather assumed in getting an Amex card I wouldn't have any limit. I felt safer with my VISA card where I knew what the limit was.

I think their suggestion to you about getting a corporate card is more to do with getting what they see as a "more credit worthy" backer involved, rather than believing certain types of expenditure should be charged to certain types of card.

I agree it has nothing to do with the color card, and nothing to do with it being "business" expenses (since they only know that because you told them). You are significantly over their preset limit for you (actually, you are lucky they approved those, and didn't deny any!) and they want some $$ from you now to pay them down before they will allow you to charge more.

PITA, I hate it when it happens to me (gold card). I just payed when I was ready (due date) and/or when I needed to use the card again. ;)

I wonder if you can avoid this in the future by giving them a call and warning them in advance when big or unusual charges are coming up.

I think that can help in the case of unusual charges - to stop them refusing an authorisation because they suspect fraud at the point of charge. But I doubt whether it would have helped the OP - might have made things worse as they might have told him he couldn't put through the purchases he ultimately did. It seems he failed some kind of credit check when he hit a certain level of expenditure.

It seems to me that Amex is within it's rights to say that you can't put any more on the card. However, I'd take the CSR to task for asking me to pay right now. A bill is dud on the due date. And I don't want to hear boo from anyone until I've missed that date.

In the United States we have the Fair Credit Billing Act. It doesn't get as much attention as the Fair Credit Reporting Act, but it has a number of things that protect consumers from unfair billing and debt collection practices. Assuming the OP's is correct that he's not due to pay until Feb 21st it sounds like Amex is making an unlawful attempt to collect a debt before it is due.

I'd raise hell with someone as far up the food chain as I can get and collect a pound of flesh in MR, Credits, or card status. Violations of the Fair Credit Billing Act are handled by the FTC IIRC.

I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, Your Millage May Vary

Now Amex is dunning me via phone and telling me I need to pay next month's bill (which isn't due until Feb. 21) now. Basically they're statement was don't use the green card for business expenses.

I don't think they are telling you not to use the card for business expenses (it's none of their business what you use it for) but rather that you have exceeded your (non preset :rolleyes:) spending limit and they want you to clear the balance.

If you read the fine print in your card terms and conditions then you will most likely find a clause to the effect that they can ask you to pay off the balance if they want to. The good news is that once you have cleared your balance, your spending limit goes up by 50%. At least, that's how it works in the UK.

I've had run-ins with the customer services before and there is no point arguing with them, they are just some muppet reading a script. Phone up in a rage and tell them you want to cancel your card because of the shoddy service then get put through to retentions and they get all apologetic about it and offer you a sweetener to stay on.

It seems to me that Amex is within it's rights to say that you can't put any more on the card. However, I'd take the CSR to task for asking me to pay right now. A bill is dud on the due date. And I don't want to hear boo from anyone until I've missed that date.

In the United States we have the Fair Credit Billing Act. It doesn't get as much attention as the Fair Credit Reporting Act, but it has a number of things that protect consumers from unfair billing and debt collection practices. Assuming the OP's is correct that he's not due to pay until Feb 21st it sounds like Amex is making an unlawful attempt to collect a debt before it is due.

I'd raise hell with someone as far up the food chain as I can get and collect a pound of flesh in MR, Credits, or card status. Violations of the Fair Credit Billing Act are handled by the FTC IIRC.

I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, Your Millage May Vary

I used to get these calls, and they are within their rights. Actually, what they are saying is that you can't charge any more unless you pay the bill. They aren't saying you have to pay the bill or else you will be delinquent. I thought the same thing you did, and mentioned that to them and they were quick to clarify. I didn't have to pay the bill until the due date---unless I wanted them to extend me more credit.

Why are you complaining?
You had unusual usage and ran up a large balance. I suspect more than 15% higher than your average or recent high balance. You exceeded your guide line and now they want you to pay it down before you use it anymore. There is usually another option. Provide them with bank statements or financials proving you have the money in the bank to pay the bill and they will adjust your guide line.
Visa would be worse, it is called a brick wall.

Visa would be worse, it is called a brick wall.

I don't see any difference between Visa and Amex other than that you know what your limit is with Visa but Amex generally won't tell you. :confused:

I suppose Amex could tell us what the spending limit is but that would destroy the carefully cultured marketing myth that Amex has "no preset spending limit".

I posted this because I don't appreciate the attitudes of the CSR's I've had to deal with.

This all started because I am getting re-married in March. My fiance found a wedding ring she really liked because it matched very well with the engagement ring I had bought her. We had been searching for several months for a ring that would match, etc. So we were out of town when she found this one. I wasn't expecting to pop a couple of thousand down on a ring on this trip. So I ran through my available payment options. Since I only had my Amex with me, I decided to call them and see if they'd approve a large purchase like that. They said it was fine. This was about half of my Dec bill. The rest was all business travel.

So January 13th, I get woke up at 8:15am with a call from Amex. They want a payment right then and there or I can't use the card any more. They were very pushy about collecting the payment via phone. So I got up, dropped everything else and took care of the payment due (a week early, I might add).

So now they're calling me again wanting more money.

True, it's there right to demand that I pay or quit using the card. But I don't like the way they treat someone who's a good, loyal customer. That's why I'm complaining. That's also why I'm not going to pay them until the bill is really due next month, even though the cash (and then some) is sitting in my bank account.

And I am going to get rid of my green card and my DL platinum. It's just not worth dealing with being blind-sided about my card use.

True, it's there right to demand that I pay or quit using the card. But I don't like the way they treat someone who's a good, loyal customer. That's why I'm complaining.

I agree. Its the method of delivery as much as the content that is the problem. They drove me crazy so many times with their attitude. I'd get a load of glossy stuff in the post, followed by a patronising, arrogant behaviour on the phone. I could sometimes wait 30mins-45mins to get through on the platinum line in the UK - generally the poorest of all the call centres I'd deal with.

I always felt that their marketing was so strong, Amex had become a cult within its own staff and members - and disbelievers are not welcome.

They really do think that their brand image is entirely driven by their marketing and they can completely discount the effect of on-the-ground experience and groups like this. I once got a questionnaire follow-up to a complaint I made. The questions were very biased and didn't really provide me with an outlet for what I wanted to say. I suspected they might want to use it as part of a statistic showing how many satisfied customers they had. Anyway I sent it back and someone called me. They asked me about the situation and I was promptly told that apparently it wasn't their fault as they'd been let down by their outsourced service provider.

They had a huge problem in Taiwan with their credit cards where overnight they summarily cut people's credit limits. They faced a bad debt problem and some bright spark decided that foreigners were the problem. Many expats suddenly found their cards would no longer work....

In the end, I really wanted the pleasure of ditching them - but had to face the reality that their PP/insurance deal couldn't be beaten. So kept it for that.

I always think its a kinda "sunset" brand. But somehow they continue on...

I just noticed that on the online Amex site they've started publishing a "maximum" for my corporate green card. Still no maximum on my personal gold.

I just noticed that on the online Amex site they've started publishing a "maximum" for my corporate green card. Still no maximum on my personal gold.

Perhaps this is because your employer is able to specify a limit for the corporate card?

my green card and my DL platinum.

Without wishing to pry into the details of your finances, is the amount of credit "available" on your Delta credit card substantially greater than the balance on the green charge card? If it is I would call American Express and ask to speak with a "manager", by which I mean someone above a supervisor, and recount this story absent any anger.

It's a matter of style, but if it were my call I would not threaten to cancel, I would express "bewilderment". I would mention that I called before I made a large purchase, you approved it, then you had second thoughts and asked for payment early, I sent the payment. Now you want early payment again? I can do this, but it appears that if I had used my other American Express card there would be no problem? Explain it to me.

ahh, but little details keep coming to the surface as he talks. He did not get a pre-auth for the purchase. He was NOT told that he had to pay then, he was told that he had to pay before he could charge anymore. Big Difference!

I don't sympathize here, sorry! :td: I agree with AX

I don't see any difference between Visa and Amex other than that you know what your limit is with Visa but Amex generally won't tell you. :confused:

I suppose Amex could tell us what the spending limit is but that would destroy the carefully cultured marketing myth that Amex has "no preset spending limit".
You can keep moving up your guide line by usage. The Visa limit does not change without a increase request.

You can keep moving up your guide line by usage. The Visa limit does not change without a increase request.

Happens all the time in the UK, especially with MBNA.

I started with GBP3000. Within about 3 years it had gone to GBP16500 (USD32000). Funny really - my outstanding balance was never more than about GBP2000.

Some credit card companies were criticised about this. (Often the increase is accompanied by a smarmy letter inviting you to spend more.) Some offer an "opt out" of these unrequested increases.

I use a personal green card for business expenses and frequently have 5-figure bills. I never pay by the "due date" since I'm still waiting for reimbursement, but always by the time the next statement closes. Never a problem.
RichMSN, do you notice any deterioration of your credit score because you aren't paying by the due date? I have always been scrupulous about paying on time, but I recently got a new job that doesn't provide a corporate Amex--I now have to run all charges through my personal card, and the bills are running into the five figures when I travel. Reimbursement typically takes 3 weeks, so several times, I've had to move money around in my personal accounts in order to pay the bills in full. This is a pain, but I've done it so that Amex won't get snippy. Am I doing this needlessly?

Card color isn't important in this scenario.

For years, my average monthly charges on my gold card were in the 5-6k region. Then one month I used the card for an 11k payment without advising Amex. The charge went through just fine.

The following month they called me and asked for 6 months of checking statements.

I had just wanted the Membership Rewards Points...

RichMSN, do you notice any deterioration of your credit score because you aren't paying by the due date? I have always been scrupulous about paying on time, but I recently got a new job that doesn't provide a corporate Amex--I now have to run all charges through my personal card, and the bills are running into the five figures when I travel. Reimbursement typically takes 3 weeks, so several times, I've had to move money around in my personal accounts in order to pay the bills in full. This is a pain, but I've done it so that Amex won't get snippy. Am I doing this needlessly?

I'm also interested in RichMSN's experience.

My understanding was that with the AMEX charge card (not the credit cards), their requested "pay by" date was only a suggestion, and so long as the payment was posted by the date the next monthly bill closed you were within the terms of the agreement.

Actually, merely paying late does not affect your credit rating (although with a credit card it can cause you to pay interest). The late payment has to be reported, and my understanding has been that most credit cards and charge cards will not report it until the payment is at least 30 days overdue.

If you're using a charge card, paying your bill before the billing cycle ends, and are giving them "five figures" in business per month, I doubt they're upset enough to report you for missing their "please pay by" date.

Why not say - "I'm waiting for reimbursement of expenses for part of this, which will happen in plenty of time for the due date, but I can send you $x000 now". You can even authorize them to take the money from you bank account over the phone - though in a case like this I'm not sure I'd trust them to take only the amount you tell them.

I know that it feels unfair (why should you have to pay anything before the due date) - but it should solve the problem, and enable you to keep using the card.

I'm also interested in RichMSN's experience.

My understanding was that with the AMEX charge card (not the credit cards), their requested "pay by" date was only a suggestion, and so long as the payment was posted by the date the next monthly bill closed you were within the terms of the agreement.

Actually, merely paying late does not affect your credit rating (although with a credit card it can cause you to pay interest). The late payment has to be reported, and my understanding has been that most credit cards and charge cards will not report it until the payment is at least 30 days overdue.

If you're using a charge card, paying your bill before the billing cycle ends, and are giving them "five figures" in business per month, I doubt they're upset enough to report you for missing their "please pay by" date.

Credit reports aren't dinged until a bill is reported as more than 30 days past due. And I don't think AMEX would make their first step reporting you as delinquent to the credit bureaus.

I am never that far behind in my payments, though. The due date is the 2nd each month and my statement closes about the 17th. You don't even forfeit MR points until the statement closes the second month.

My credit is outstanding, BTW.

People actually believe the "no (preset) credit limit" business? AmEx cards aren't unlimited credit, they're "guess your credit limit" cards. And by "preset" they mean that it changes all the time to keep you guessing.

Also agree with the above - the color of your card has no bearing on your credit limit.


I know that it feels unfair (why should you have to pay anything before the due date) - but it should solve the problem, and enable you to keep using the card.
But you don't have to pay anything before the due date. In the case described in the OP, he had used up as much credit as they were going to allow, so he could either pay now and charge more, or pay by the due date and stop using the card.

This is the same as any other credit card or line of credit - when you max out you can either pay and use or wait and not use. That's not really unfair in and of itself (though with AmEx's guess your credit limit program it may be an unwelcome surprise at the wrong time).

Wow--I've never heard of this happening before. My spending patterns are erratic (and I am using my Plat card less these days) but like Rich MSN, I sometimes have bills in the 5 figure range and Amex has never made it a problem.

I wonder if you can avoid this in the future by giving them a call and warning them in advance when big or unusual charges are coming up. (Kind of like how you would give any cc co. a call if you are anticipating a change from your normal spending pattern--going abroad, making a big purchase, etc...)

I tend to give amex a heads up when I'm gonig to do something that might be unusual. Especially before an international trip because it don't want to have problems in another country ... it's just a hassle.

One thing that might help in this case here is a feature on my gold card is the flexible spending. For big purchases or 250 or items under some categories (hotels), you can pay the balance later. The drawback is that you have to pay interest.

I also use my amex for personal and business ~9-12k a month and sometimes it takes my company forever to pay me back. Sometimes I feel like a bank. Sometimes you run into bad timing like you charged something right at the end of your billing cycle (2000 hotel bill) and have to pay the total balance the next day.

You aren't the only one. My Platinum Card (and my Delta, Starwood, and others) went bye-bye after I had several months of higher than normal charges. Here's the problem I have. Let's say my spending went: 5k, 6k, 11k, 10k, 8k, 10k. How then is that last 10k "outside" of my normal pattern? Basically, it seemed that any time I went over 6k they would call and whine and cut-off the card. This happened three times before I ditched the card. I had it for over two years before this started happening. My downfall was using the card to purchase some airline tickets and an engagement ring that last month. Amex demanded payment, and then wanted THREE YEARS of tax transcripts.

More annoying than the tax transcripts was randomly turning my card off. I'd be out eating dinner and my card would be declined. I'd be forced to make a payment online that same night, and then my charging would be restored. After 3 different times that this occurred (in seperate months), it finally dawned on me that I was a FOOL for letting a company drag me around by my neck.



I closed all my accounts and haven't looked back.

ahh, but little details keep coming to the surface as he talks. He did not get a pre-auth for the purchase. He was NOT told that he had to pay then, he was told that he had to pay before he could charge anymore. Big Difference!

I don't sympathize here, sorry! :td: I agree with AX

I DID get a pre-auth on the large purchase.

I was told that they wanted a payment immediately. I also agreed with Amex that it was within their rights to ask for such. You missed my point which is how I was treated in these circumstances. And yes, I have kept them updated on my financials as they have changed.

I'm using my credit union issued Visa plat now. No points but no annual fee, no hassles and 8.5% apr. Amex ain't worth the hassle.

Funny thing, I noticed they didn't have a problem charging my annual renewal fee to my card when it was supposedly "shut off". Guess they figure I can come up with that, eh...