Asia - Myanmar

Hi,

does anybody want to share their experiences about travelling in Myanmar.
We are planning a short trip of 10 days in June.
Wanna do Yangon, Mandalay, Bagan and Inle Lake.
I ve received several different reactions wheather to go or not due to the political and government aspects of the country.

thnx
Martine

If you are not concerned about visiting 99% of other world and "western" countries with various political and governental inclanations, then just don't worry and go.
It is like Thailand and Malaysia used to be 30-40 years ago. No ATMs, no mobiles (governement has secluded network not accessible with our mobiles), but rikshas and old post-war American buses still running. You can find all minimum modern things (hot water and aircon) if you need it.
We did similar itenary 2 years ago ^ ^ ^ and dream to go back again soon. Great people (there are touts but they exist in every Asian country anyway) and lots of history/monuments/temples!
Take Lonely Planet or RTFF and you will find your way there :)

I ve received several different reactions wheather to go or not due to the political and government aspects of the country.

Sure many people will disapprove. I used to wonder the same about Vietnam - and there are many Vietnamese who left after the war who still won't go back. In the end, I just did as much reading as I could and went there in 1993 and have since lived and worked there. My view is that constructive engagement is the best way and through the involvement of international business and to a lesser extent tourism, many of the reforms have become irreversible and a virtuous circle is in place. I don't think I've ever met a VN person that wished foreigners in general weren't there.

But Myanmar is a bit different. Perhaps like VN in the early 1980s - a much more repressive regime. I probably wouldn't go for the simple reason that Aung San Suu Kyi has said that tourists shouldn't visit. She is the closest Burmese people have to a representative leader - having won elections in 1990 which were then ignored by the military government. She subsequently won the Nobel Peace Prize and has spent many years since under house arrest. I would feel a bit uncomfortable about going there against the wishes of such a respected figure and leader of her people.

Some info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi

and some "anti-tourism stuff" here: http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/action_holiday.html

Anyway, there is an issue there. I would read up some of the stuff and then make your own judgement. I'm sure if nothing else Burmese people would appreciate people who pitch up with at least some background knowledge.

Certainly in Vietnam I sometimes cringe at some of the crass and ignorant remarks some visiting foreigners come out with. Often people arrive with a daft, close minded point of view, only see stuff that confirms their warped opinion and then leave with everything re-inforced. Only now they are more dangerous - because now they can boast to their friends that "they've seen it for real" and therefore speak with even more authority. Defeats the purpose of travelling if you do so with a closed mind. (But I have an open mind on that!)

We did similar itenary 2 years ago ^ ^ ^ and dream to go back again soon. Great people (there are touts but they exist in every Asian country anyway) and lots of history/monuments/temples!
Take Lonely Planet or RTFF and you will find your way there :)

Thnx!
Because it is still not ruined by busloads of people we still on the side that we want to go, but reading all the background to make sure ;)

Can you give me some handy tips for the itinerary?

Martine,

I'm glad you're inclined to go^ . I visited last February and can't wait to go back. The places you've mentioned are just right: 1-2 days in Yangon is sufficient. The city is a time capsule itself. Seeing the old (and somewhat unwashed) British colonial buildings is a bit nostalgic. I would not miss Scott Market, the Strand and of course Shwedagon Paya. The Traders is a convenient hotel within walking distance to the Scott Market.

I suggest at least 2 days in Bagan. An early morning hot air ballon ride over the plain dotted with temples is an unforgettable sight. If you have some spare time, take a 2-hour drive to Mount Popa Resort and have lunch there. The view from the Resort (on a mountain top) is really nice.

I find Inle Lake to be most idyllic. Pindaya Cave houses hundreds of Buddha statues and the drive from Pindaya to Inle Lake is very scenic. Spend at least 2 days in the Inle Lake region. You could go on a hiking day trip and take in the beautiful scenery at close range. As for accommodation, if you're noise sensitive, do not stay right on the water. I like both the Lake View Resort and Princess Resort.

Wishing you a great time. IMHO, the locals are very friendly and they are very happy to have visitors from abroad.:)

3 days is fully enough for Yangoon.

we took over-night train (we love rail-travel generally in Asia and much better then buses) to Mandalay. You do have THE attention there as station manager personally sell you the ticket, take you through security barriers to the wagon doors and say goodbye. It was most expensive ($50)and most luxury wagon (within Myanmar public transport) but still a bit rough (if you know Thai or Malaysian 2nd class trains - those ARE better than Yangoon-Mandalay super-grand coupe express train). Large double-bed in the coupe though (plus entry hall, shower cubicle and toilet cubicle - all quite dirty or normal, depending how you measure it). Very slow 15 hour journey (kids jump on and poke into the windows:) ). a bit exotic for 1 time but I would better fly next time. Stock up on food and drinks - it does not stop anywhere (officially) so we starved a bit!

Mandalay is a huge city but I would say 1-1.5 day is enough for it. but dont rush. All main, nice and interesting monuments and temple complexes are spread outside the city (all within 10-15 km from its centre) so 3-4 days would be good to see those without rush. I was not so impressed with Mingun (shown on Lonely Planet guide front page) as by monastir complexes on the hills down the river.

Took a touristy boat (prices are much higher vs local boats so not many locals take it, they could be put off by toilet signs "Foreiner only":mad: ) to Bagan. Whole day trip, wide river and you see bits of life in the villages and fileds around. ok-ish (I heard same 12 hour trip by bus is a torture as roads are bad there).

Bagan is something really really special. I cannot describe it's magnity and shire size. Sunrise or sunset (we woke up and stayed on for all of them!) are absolute majic there. We were there 4 days (incl New Year celebration with local kids singing for us by the open fire!:-: ) and saw pretty everything but I would take even slower pace next time. We used horsecart and this is definately thing to do (try to find horsecart #318, guy with name Wyne - good english and very helpful), or bicycle. We spent the whole week in Angkor this year (just returned) so I would stay for 5-6 days in Bagan next time and just enjoy it slowly. We'll take that baloon ride next time for sure. It is a life-lime experience and you will never forget that sunrise flight over hundreds of temples poking through the fog as sun comes up with orange light.

Took a flight to Inlay lake (planes are actually ok if you take Air Bagan or Air Mandalay) and stayed there for 4 days. Found great local guide Tanzin (he and his wife runs a small pharmacy aka travel office in the main street - please please say him hello from Mish&Kira - we were there in Jan 2006). He took us around on his long-tail boat (he was brilliant to avoid tourist hords and get to best places while nobody was there) to local villages nad local markets, went up to the hills for whole day trek, paddled us around through small channels, took us for lunch to local families and just helped to show how people live. It was a biut chilly in the mornings but ok during the day (Inlay is quite high and remote).

Flew back to Yangoon and then stayed a week on a Thai beach to relax after greatest Asian holidays so far.

I think Myanmar is a gem. People have different views about their government and "regime" but I saw much more police on my return day back to London then in the streets of Myanmar during 15 days. It is safe there, people do respect and like tourists and it was definitely much much safer then in many streets/areas of London or NY. About that political lady - I am not sure that some democratically elected (or skillfully promoted) presidents do the best for their people, countries or world. I have example of Chile (1970s), much of Africa, some Eastern European countries or some other very recent examples of countries where communists or democrats or freedom leaders have had no clue how to manage their country, how to run economy and what to do after election celebration, followed by things turning into nasty civil wars, lootings, killings etc etc. Let is be where we are now and we'll see the future. I want to go back to Myanmar soon rather then hear stories about civil wars, powerless democratically elected leaders or other countries bringing western democracy operations. I wish you visit Myanmar and see it as it is now.

People have different views about their government and "regime" but I saw much more police on my return day back to London then in the streets of Myanmar during 15 days. It is safe there, people do respect and like tourists and it was definitely much much safer then in many streets/areas of London or NY. About that political lady - I am not sure that some democratically elected (or skillfully promoted) presidents do the best for their people, countries or world.

I think this part of your post is ridiculous - you took the trouble to go all the way to Myanmar but it appears you can't even be bothered to refer to "that political lady" by name. I wonder if in pre-reformed South Africa you would have enjoyed a holiday there and referred to Nelson Mandela as "that political gentleman". I doubt whether it was Aung San Suu Kyi's "skillful" promotion that got her a Nobel prize.

Of course you might see "more police in London".... They generally wear uniforms. And the London police are at least attempting to uphold the rule of law - the security authorities in your "gem" of holiday destination have a different function. I'm sure YOU were very safe there - nobody will knock on your door in the middle of the night.

Its true people get mugged and murdered in London, the wrong people get locked up and politicians are sometimes corrupt. But to try and just equate the two systems is just abdicating responsibility.

The reality is that the system is dire there. The only question that remains is whether going there helps perpetuate the system or is likely to improve things. To throw up your hands and say "well things can be bad in London too" as an excuse to dismiss the issue is a great shame, IMHO.

I think this part of your post is ridiculous - you took the trouble to go all the way to Myanmar but it appears you can't even be bothered to refer to "that political lady" by name. I wonder if in pre-reformed South Africa you would have enjoyed a holiday there and referred to Nelson Mandela as "that political gentleman". I doubt whether it was Aung San Suu Kyi's "skillful" promotion that got her a Nobel prize.

Of course you might see "more police in London".... They generally wear uniforms. And the London police are at least attempting to uphold the rule of law - the security authorities in your "gem" of holiday destination have a different function. I'm sure YOU were very safe there - nobody will knock on your door in the middle of the night.

Its true people get mugged and murdered in London, the wrong people get locked up and politicians are sometimes corrupt. But to try and just equate the two systems is just abdicating responsibility.

The reality is that the system is dire there. The only question that remains is whether going there helps perpetuate the system or is likely to improve things. To throw up your hands and say "well things can be bad in London too" as an excuse to dismiss the issue is a great shame, IMHO.

Jimbo99, that is Your opinion and here I just want to say that I find it ridiculously naive. Lets not going to open a debate. I gave my views and you might have yours - we exchanged opinions and I still dont agree with yours.

The fact is you have NOT been to Myanmar (reading it from your "I probably wouldn't go for the simple reason that Aung San Suu Kyi has said that tourists shouldn't visit" which made me laughing - do you really listen to opinion of any politician?). IMHO, she needs to accept that her presidency has failed 16 years ago and she needs to move on rather than reffering to the votes of previous generation. In fact, current Myanmar goverment treats her quite mildly - home arrest is not the worst what could happen and did happen to many other politicians in her situation. Surely it is not nice but I should say it is much much better than how many "democratic" governments treat their political opponents (I can give you dozens of examples from both western and 3rd world).
As for Nelson Mandela, don't we have clear example of political cult here (and I dread Myanmar would go same way). I have been to South Africa several times and I have listed to local people there. And I WOULD go to holidays there while he was in the prison, no problem (dont be ridiculous to start another discussion on this point).

Finally, just to let you know that I originated from the country where "midnight knock on the door" was used for millions of people (including my close relatives) so I know what it is. It is not for you to educate me on this. Take a deep pause and move on with your life now, no need to reply me any further.

I think Myanmar is a gem. People have different views about their government and "regime" but I saw much more police on my return day back to London then in the streets of Myanmar during 15 days. It is safe there, people do respect and like tourists and it was definitely much much safer then in many streets/areas of London or NY. About that political lady - I am not sure that some democratically elected (or skillfully promoted) presidents do the best for their people, countries or world. I have example of Chile (1970s), much of Africa, some Eastern European countries or some other very recent examples of countries where communists or democrats or freedom leaders have had no clue how to manage their country, how to run economy and what to do after election celebration, followed by things turning into nasty civil wars, lootings, killings etc etc. Let is be where we are now and we'll see the future. I want to go back to Myanmar soon rather then hear stories about civil wars, powerless democratically elected leaders or other countries bringing western democracy operations. I wish you visit Myanmar and see it as it is now.

I agree with you absolutely. Burma is indeed a gem, and you wont find a more interesting place to visit in Asia.

Many "democratically" elected governments in the third world are far more oppressive and draconian than Burma. Just because certain news does not make it to the front page of the New York Times or the Guardian doesnt mean all is well and fine in these places.

I dont think isolating Burma is going to help the people there who are some of the most friendly and helpful people around (unlike the fake smiles you find at many places). I am amazed certain people would avoid Burma just because a "politician" said tourists should not go there.

Many "democratically" elected governments in the third world are far more oppressive and draconian than Burma.

Many?

Many?

Yes, many.

I am amazed certain people would avoid Burma just because a "politician" said tourists should not go there.

This is drifting into OMNI land now, so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

I'm sorry you feel "amazed" at my position. The "politician" you refer to is the closest Burmese people have to a leader, and she has been recognised outside Burma too. It appears she is still well supported in Burma too and that's why she's seen as a threat. You mention newspaper headlines. She probably doesn't make them anymore because she's effectively gagged - with no pictures or publicity , newspapers move on to more exciting stuff - and that's why posters here probably can't even remember her name. Its this apparent dismissive attitude that saddens me.

But her request for tourists not visit ranks higher in my book than observations that people smile at you alot and seem pleased to see you. Very few tourists manage to scrape more than the surface of what's going on in a country. Just not speaking the local language and sticking to touristy places is enough to cut you off from what's really going on. Having lived and worked in Vietnam, and speaking Vietnamese, my view of that place is very different from the tourist who takes a week or so to visit the pagodas, Perfume River and Cu Chi tunnels.

I can't agree that many "democratically" elected governments in the third world are far more oppressive and draconian than Burma (whatever "third world" means). But this is beside the point - the concern is to what extent a visiting tourist is making things more or less oppressive, not better.

I'm sure Burma's a "gem" from the point of view of the visitor and I'm sure if the OP goes there she'll have a great time.

As for Mishkira's "Take a deep pause and move on with your life now, no need to reply me any further" - thank you. I don't need your advice either.

But her request for tourists not visit ranks higher in my book than observations that people smile at you alot and seem pleased to see you.

For most of us in the third world, economic survival takes precedance over political freedom. Idolise her for all you want, but in my opinion sacrificing the livelihood of thousands of her countrymen as part of her crusade does not make her a saint.

There is quite a large Burmese community spread across SE Asia. Some are students and many are working as construction workers, cooks, waiters etc I suggest you strike up a conversion if you meet one of them before coming to conclusion on a country you have never visited. People from different parts of the world have very different priorities in life and I hope you will eventually realise that in years to come.

For the time being, you may also wish to avoid Thailand.
Oopps...., Thaksin didnt tell us not to visit Thailand nor did he tell us not to invest in Thailand, so I suppose its ok to visit :p

There is quite a large Burmese community spread across SE Asia. Some are students and many are working as construction workers, cooks, waiters etc I suggest you strike up a conversion if you meet one of them before coming to conclusion on a country you have never visited. People from different parts of the world have very different priorities in life and I hope you will eventually realise that in years to come.

It seems nobody in this thread has spent any serious time in Burma except as a transient traveller. And, since you mentioned it, I do know some Burmese people and they have informed by point of view, as well as some longer term expats.

I suggest people don't ANY make conclusions about a country they've only visited as a tourist or on a business trip.

In the spirit of the thread, perhaps it would be helpful to add "I hope you will eventually realise that in years to come."

Martine, apologies for going off-topic about travel information which you are possibly after (I guess above posts gave you enough views to make your mind about visiting Burma or not, in principal).

If you decide to go and like independent travel, I suggest you to read Lonely Planet guide and forum. Plenty of info there and lots of latest details, trip reports and hints.
If you prefer to travel in a package group (I still think it is worse), then there are travel agents who sell tours to Burma (mostly limited to Yangoon-Baga-Mandalay circle).

For OMNI discission: please make the following text bigger if you are interested in non- travel discussion about Burma

Jimbo99, your last post is good enough but we still have not seen any contribution from yourselves about Burma sights and things to do there (that is purpose of this forum and thread). Do you have anything to contribute to Martine and other people interested in TRAVEL TO Burma?
All your posts were in support of political party and leader that didn't know how to manage their country (incuding military) after elections thus they had lost what they miracly won. I would say, they won elections while nobody in the goevrnment considered them as serious opponents. Well, this things happenned in many countries and sometimes it gets self-corrected after surprises. Take Spain or Chile - it might also give you some thoughts about what was better for their countries in long-term - dictators Franco and Pinochet or communist partisans and Salvador Aliende at al. And lets not start about post-discator Iraq...

As for Aung's representation of Burmese people in 1990... Well, I see interesting picture from the links - she grew up and spent her life abroad since 1965 (living comfortable life in embassies and western countries - I take it she had little clue about her country and real lifes of Burmese people). She came back to Burma in 1988 only. I serously doubt that many Burmese people have had any knowledge about her existance before 1989. Somehow she got wide publicity during 1989 via media campaigns, meetings and demonstrations (it is easy to start popular with demonstarators). Provided the rulers did not consider them seriously (remind me Germany of late 1920s and victory in early 1930s...), they managed to get lots of votes from millions of ordinary people who were not fully happy with their government. The rest is history. Here is my view on how things developed.
Overall, I dont see there is a good ground to say that somebody appearing in the country out of the blue months before elections, would really represent his/her people. It is just easy to promise and give vauge speeches about "freedom" thus winning people hearts.
I do respect her sufferings and struggle all last years (somehow children live in comfortable London though?) but I think she is very naive politically in her peaceful revolution (like Sakharov used to be all his life). On positive side that might keep her alive all these years. I am sorry to say but politics is a dirty game and she had and will have to act stronger to win. But the most serious question (for Burma) is what she will do with the victory and country after celebration day?

I could be wrong... buy my memory is that the Australian guys who run the hot air baloon in Bagan take to low season 'off'. My info is a couple of years off so YMMV.



Martine,
I suggest at least 2 days in Bagan. An early morning hot air ballon ride over the plain dotted with temples is an unforgettable sight. If you have some spare time, take a 2-hour drive to Mount Popa Resort and have lunch there. The view from the Resort (on a mountain top) is really nice.

I find Inle Lake to be most idyllic. Pindaya Cave houses hundreds of Buddha statues and the drive from Pindaya to Inle Lake is very scenic. Spend at least 2 days in the Inle Lake region. You could go on a hiking day trip and take in the beautiful scenery at close range. As for accommodation, if you're noise sensitive, do not stay right on the water. I like both the Lake View Resort and Princess Resort.

Wishing you a great time. IMHO, the locals are very friendly and they are very happy to have visitors from abroad.:)

For OMNI discission: please make the following text bigger if you are interested in non- travel discussion about Burma

No, if you want a general political discussion about Burma that you consider appropriate for OMNI then I think better you post it there, albeit with a link from here.

Hi,

does anybody want to share their experiences about traveling in Myanmar.
We are planning a short trip of 10 days in June.
Wanna do Yangon, Mandalay, Bagan and Inle Lake.
I ve received several different reactions wheather to go or not due to the political and government aspects of the country.

thnx
Martine

June is not the best time for Myanmar as it is a bit hot and the monsoon season is going to start soon after.

Air travel with Bagan Air or Mandalay Air in economy is even better than on US carriers. The airports are a little shabby but if you have been in other third-world country then you will feels right at home.

Long train travel in Myanmar is not for the faint of heart (India general carriage comes to mind). Bus journey are also not recommended due to really bad road conditions. For short jaunts <> 3 hours they are tolerable.

Yangon -> Mandalay: You would want to fly this route. It is about 2 hours flying time. The Mandalay Air was flying twice daily when I was there in Nov 2004.

Mandalay is good for about 1-2 day as you can take a day trip to see the U-Bein bridge.

Mandalay -> Bagan: Best if you take the SLOW ferry. It will allow you to relax and enjoy the idyllic life of Myanmar famous Irrawaddy river.

Bagan: Give yourself at least 2 days, 3 if you want to see mount Popa. This is the crowning jewel of Myanmar. With Angkor in Cambodia and Borobodur in Indonesia, they are the 3 most important Buddhism complexes in the world. Sunrise in Bagan is amazingly beautiful.

Yangoon: 2 days is quite enough for me here. Not many thing to see here except for the Schwedagon. You would want to take a train trip on the Yangoon loop. It takes about 2 hours.

I have a few of pictures on my Nov 2004 trip here (http://thien.fotki.com/travel/burma/) and more here (http://thien.fotki.com/travel/burma_folder/)

I'm in Myanmar in April for 3 days (if I like it I'll go back). I was looking at spending two days in Yangon, and doing a day trip up to Mandalay. Is that a good use of time?

Also, does anyone know how to book domestic flights in Myanmar?

Thanks,
MD

I'm in Myanmar in April for 3 days (if I like it I'll go back). I was looking at spending two days in Yangon, and doing a day trip up to Mandalay. Is that a good use of time?

Also, does anyone know how to book domestic flights in Myanmar?

Thanks,
MD

One day in Yangon, 2 days in Bagan. Yangon is nothing special at all and you will missing the splendor of Bagan!

Also, does anyone know how to book domestic flights in Myanmar?

I cant remember the name of the TA we used but if you do a search on FT they are there somewhere.

I communicated with them through emails on fares and seats availability. Tickets were delivered to my hotel when I arrived in Yangon, and I paid them in cash (USD). If I remember correctly payment could also be made by TT to their account (may not be possible from US) but I chose to pay with cash upon delivery of tickets.

Domestic tickets are not cheap in Burma, and its not worth doing Mandalay without Bagan. I would choose Bagan instead of Mandalay, I dont think there is another place on earth that is similar to Bagan and you will not be disappointed .

(Sorry to totally hijack the thread)

Thanks for the replies mario33 and Q Shoe Guy.

I am definitely in Yangon for 4 night (3 days) and have already paid for the accommodation there. My reasoning is on this trip I am doing a lot of 1-2 nighters at different places, so wanted a long stretch at the one hotel.

Having said that, do you think it is worth doing a day trip to Bagan? The flights work out such that I can be there at 8am and out at 6pm.

Having said that, do you think it is worth doing a day trip to Bagan? The flights work out such that I can be there at 8am and out at 6pm.

8-10hrs is certainly enough time for some sightseeing. If you are unlikely to visit Burma again and there is no way you could squeeze in a night there, yes its worth it even for a day trip. The main attraction is the scenery (do choose a nice spot for viewing) and there is no need to visit every single temple close-up.

Do, however, bear in mind that you will not have a hotel room to rest inbetween your sightseengs. The flight though short is not exactly comfortable and you may not arrive with the best physical form. If you choose to use a horse-cart to move around, the ride itself can also be very uncomfortable (best to use a car under your circumstances). You will miss the sunset scenery which is most spectacular when the temples "glow" against the vast plains. You will also miss the tranquility of Bagan (it is really isolated) at night under the stars, and the cool crisp air at the temples early in the morning.

Do spend a night if you can, but if you absolutely cant its still worth a visit. I believe the TA we used for flight bookings was http://www.radianttours.com/

hehehehe,

i was thinking about posting a reply and ask where the earlier debate would lead to, but it is not necesarry anymore ;)

thnx mishkira for your tips!
we might shorten up on Mandalay and Yangoon to do Bagan and Inle longer time. Unfortunately we have only 11 days, but we r convinced it will be a special holiday. If we find the people you mention we would defenitely say hi from you!
And you r right about travelling independent, would note consider to join busloads of tourists ;)

Can anybody give me an idea how much money i would have to take with me for 10 days. Based on inbound travelling by plane.

Thnx n Ciao
Martine

ok , 11 days will be tight but I hope it will be a good introduction trip convincing for more later;)

I would suggest the following plan (I know all plans will fail but take it as idea then;) ):

Yangoon - arrival day and Day 1 (I guess you will also have several hours or more on your departure day) - that should be enough to see pretty everything. Try to fly to Mandalay in the evening of day 1. Train is ok also (but see my earlier notes about it scomfort) as it leaves at about 4pm.

Mandalay - 2.5 - 3 days (day 2 for the city and close suburbs, days 3 and 4 for outside trips).
Try to fly to Bagan in the afternoon/evening of day 4. If you won't fly then you will have to take whole day boat trip (day 5) which is not bad but too time consuming for your short visit (forget bus or train as those are tiring and you won't see anything during whole day journey).

Bagan - 3 days (Days 5, 6, 7) I am strongly disagree with idea of one-day flying visit and speedy sighseeing especially without sunset/sunrise experience -you will miss a lot as midday sun makes picture and viewing of temples much pale and you will be tired under hot sun.
I think you will figure out yourselves after 2 days if you want to stay more in Bagan, or you will visit Mount Popa (I did not go there but I am not saying it is not worth it) or will head to Inlay lake on day 3. We bought air-tickets in Bagan 1 day before flight (and it was busy New Year season) so I think it will be easy to decide and move on easily.

Inlay Lake - 2-4 days (depending if you want to relax a bit after busy previous days and if you want to do a day trek up to the hills). Allow 2 full days to tour the lake, villages and monastires.

This will take you to day 10-11 and your flight back to Yangoon.

2 main things to make things happenned and seen:
1) plan early start every day (say 6-7am for normal sighseeing) and 4-5am for sunrise (must in Bagan and on Inlay lake, please dont miss it). This will also allow time for some rest and long launch during hot afternoon hours, afterwards you can see things till sunset. Not much of nightlife but there are few bars where you will be ok with drinks if you want it (but pretty everything else shuts down as the sun goes down).
2) take it easy and respect local way of life (sometimes service is slow but it is just their life and many myanmar people don't know that travellers expect it speedy, like in western world or in HK/SG). but absolutely majority of people made a real effort to make us happy, and they well succedded^

As for the money, I think you can find current airfares on websites of Air Mandalay and Air Bagan (sorry I dont remember but I think they were about $50-70 per flight in Dec 2005, can be higher now with oil price hike last year).
Daily costs, well it depends on your taste and habbits but we paid about:
12-20 US$ for clean double-bed rooms (with hotwater and aircon but nothing funcy, but we ok with those to sleep in and take showers only),
guides cost ~10 US$/day (incl horsecart or longtail boat),
food and drinks - say 1US$ per single meal (mind you, we enjoyed street food and not those tourist restaurants;) ) or beer.
If my memory still works, we had exchanged about 800 US$ into local kyats on day 1 and it was enough for 2.5 weeks of travelling includinig all internal flights, my beers and her bit of shopping:)

ok, i guess you are tired reading this so you better go there and check yourselves:-) enjoy, I hope you will ^

mishkira

For the conversation about the politics of visiting Burma, here are two websites that some might find helpful for background, thought, ...:

<http://www.freeburmacoalition.org/>; and, more generally,
<http://www.freeburma.org/>.

THNX everybody for tips,
i have something to work out again hehehhe ;)

it might be silly to ask and some of you might laugh but i read somewhere on the internet that customs will take our mobile phones in their possesion on arrival, is that true?

ciao
Martine

it might be silly to ask and some of you might laugh but i read somewhere on the internet that customs will take our mobile phones in their possesion on arrival, is that true?

Not a silly question at all. I left mine at home to avoid problems and in anycase your mobile wont work in Burma.

THNX everybody for tips,
i have something to work out again hehehhe ;)

it might be silly to ask and some of you might laugh but i read somewhere on the internet that customs will take our mobile phones in their possesion on arrival, is that true?

ciao
Martine


Your mobile will not work there (they do have some internal network but access is given to local rulers and their close-bys only, you cannot get on it).
But I did not see that phones were taken away nor I was even requested to show it. I think 99,99% that you will just carry your phone around with no problems. If it is too heavy than leave it at home;)
11 days without mobile - can you survive it?:D

by the way, no ATM/cash machine either in the whole country. They do accept creditcard for payment in the Strand hotel but not much elsewhere. Hard greenbucks will do it for you nicely though;)

You will be laughing but the fact is - we have just booked our tickets for another trip to Myanmar in Dec'07! I hope nothing politically correct will happen before, hurrrreyyyy!:cool:

I left mine at home to avoid problems

Oh did you? You must do that alot then...


Many "democratically" elected governments in the third world are far more oppressive and draconian than Burma.


:D

Oh did you? You must do that alot then...

Actually I do, though sometimes its not because of local regulations. My phone wouldnt have worked in Japan ! and some phones wouldnt work in the US. And phone calls are so expensive in Cambodia I rather leave them at home ! Have you actually been travelling ?

AFAIK they would keep your phone till you leave the country. I dont see the big deal since I wont be able to use it anyway, and in anycase I was using fixed line phones there. It might also interest you that they dont photograph and finger print you when you enter the country.

They do accept creditcard for payment in the Strand hotel but not much elsewhere.

I dont think credit card actually works in Burma. What they do at certain larger establishments is that they actually charge your card through their associates in SIN or BKK. I believe the company managing the Strand is headquartered in SIN.

Do let me know if your experience indicate otherwise.

I dont think credit card actually works in Burma. What they do at certain larger establishments is that they actually charge your card through their associates in SIN or BKK. I believe the company managing the Strand is headquartered in SIN.

Do let me know if your experience indicate otherwise.

I think you are right actually. I did not stay in the Strand but I had a couple of drinks in the bar and I do remember those signs with Visa and Amex pictures at reception desk. Also pricewise, I wouldn't think Strand patrons would carry stacks of banknotes around (and you need a lot of those as the room rates level at about $200/night at least, if my memory still works). I guess they connect somehow via telephone line to a creditcard terminal in Singapore and it works for everyone's satisfaction:)

It might also interest you that they dont photograph and finger print you when you enter the country.

I love that^ :D What they did instead (in Burma of course:) ) on arrival immigration - they kindly invited me to go through passport control to the loos (as I was bursting, sorry for details) on the landside of terminal and they processed my passport and visa paperwork meantime. I returned in a minute, they were smiling and said "We hope you feel better now, welcome to our country!". ^ ^

8-10hrs is certainly enough time for some sightseeing. If you are unlikely to visit Burma again and there is no way you could squeeze in a night there, yes its worth it even for a day trip. The main attraction is the scenery (do choose a nice spot for viewing) and there is no need to visit every single temple close-up.

Do, however, bear in mind that you will not have a hotel room to rest inbetween your sightseengs. The flight though short is not exactly comfortable and you may not arrive with the best physical form. If you choose to use a horse-cart to move around, the ride itself can also be very uncomfortable (best to use a car under your circumstances). You will miss the sunset scenery which is most spectacular when the temples "glow" against the vast plains. You will also miss the tranquility of Bagan (it is really isolated) at night under the stars, and the cool crisp air at the temples early in the morning.

Do spend a night if you can, but if you absolutely cant its still worth a visit. I believe the TA we used for flight bookings was http://www.radianttours.com/
(Sorry to re-hijack this thread lol)

Thanks for the information. I have actually reshuffled my plans around and will be doing 2 days in each of Yangon, Mandalay and Bagan. I have sent a request off to Radiant Tours to book the flights.

MD

...i read somewhere on the internet that customs will take our mobile phones in their possession on arrival, is that true?...
This wasn't my experience. I declared my mobile phone (and my laptop, etc.). The Customs official said is was ok. I didn't have to register anything or show on departure, either. I didn't bother trying to get a SIM.

Does anyone have experience in geting a Myanmar visa in BKK? How long does it take and how much does it cost? Thanks.

Does anyone have experience in geting a Myanmar visa in BKK? How long does it take and how much does it cost? Thanks.
Anyone have an answer to this?

Also, if flying UA to SE Asia (SIN, SGN or BKK), is BKK the best jumping off point for Myanmar? Best carrier to get one there? The sort of place one is best advised to have advanced booking for hotels, or OK to get there and ad lib on hotels and domestic travel? January an OK time of year to go?

JUST returned. I flew out of BKK. I used an intra Asia award on Thai using UA miles. It was only 20,000 miles RT. Thai has several flights from BKK to RGN daily. If you are paying for the tickets, Thai is rather expensive. Jet Asia is much cheaper. The way tourism is now it should be ok to wait until you get there to book hotels. However, a local agent can often get better deals. At this time some of the domestic flights have been cut back. We were there in middle of Nov. and most of the domestic flights on Yangon Air were pretty well full. January will probably be ideal time to travel. I used a private tour guide who booked all my hotels, flights, transportation and went with me. He handled checking into hotels, immigration at four domestic airports, and my money exchange. He travelled with me and his price was much lower than I was quoted from tour agencies which did not include private guide throughout. His name is MR. YE. He can be reached at ye700@mail4u.com.mm. He will give you a quote, no obligation. You can also get much valuable info from Lonely Planet Thorntree Myanmar branch. If I can answer more questions, ask away by PM or in this thread. Larry

We are goin to Burma for Xmas and NY for a couple of weeks.

I travelled all over 2 years back and a nice country.

Forget the politics. It is more dangerous to cross any western street than any danger you'll be in there.

The USA is FAR more oppressive than Burma in many ways if you really think on it. @:-)

Watching that dangerous froot loop Bush frothing at the mouth about Iran this week, when even the US spook agencies all agree they are not making nuclear weapons, and have not tried for years, makes me wonder why any Americans criticise anyone else's paranoia. :)

I've travelled to well lover 100 countries and there are far more dodgy places than Burma

Anyone know if visas on arrival are happening there yet?

I am once again using one guide to take us around the entire country.

He speaks absolutely PERFECT English, and is for Burma very politically INCORRECT so is a good guy to spend time with.

Not typing his name here to protect him, but email me if you need a contact.

Booking via him wil save you a lot of money over US or Europe agent.

I am very interested in travel perspectives on Burma/Myanmar, since considering a visit. And don't want to turn this thread into an OMNI-type one. But do want to respond to the OMNI parts below:

...The USA is FAR more oppressive than Burma in many ways if you really think on it. @:-)
You can't possibly believe that citizens of Burma/Myanmar live freer lives under a less oppressive government than do the citizens of the United States under the government they have. The notion is beyond silly, it is absurd.

Watching that dangerous froot loop Bush frothing at the mouth about Iran this week, when even the US spook agencies all agree they are not making nuclear weapons, and have not tried for years, makes me wonder why any Americans criticise anyone else's paranoia. :)...
"...when even the US spook agencies all agree that they (Iran) are not making nuclear weapons, and have not tried for years..." That is at best a very misleading summary.

The IAEA, no US puppet, breaks nuclear weaponization down into three (3) component parts. The first is work to obtain the fissible material needed for a nuclear weapon. It is undisputed that for quite some time and even as we speak now, Iran has had those centrifuges spinning to enrich uranium. They say the enriched uranium will only be used for the peaceful purposes, but that same enriched uranium is the stuff of atomic bombs. The third part is work on the systems to deliver nuclear weapons to their intended targets. It is beyond dispute that Iran has missiles with sufficient range and precision to hit those targets. Moreover, Iran has been anything but subtle in identifying Israel as a candidate target for their missiles. That leaves for consideration only the second part, which is work to develop and perfect the necessary bomb mechanisms. The NIE report which was declassified concluded that Iran had been working on development of a bomb, but stopped working on that perhaps four (4) years ago. There is no reason that they can't start up again whenever they chose or that they won't.

Anyone who is very sanguine about Iran as a possible possessor of nuclear weapons does not comprehend the issue. Concerns about Burma/Myanmar are of a very different sort.