Starwood Preferred Guest - Any Westin Residence owners out there?

We are considering purchasing a Westin Residence in the Carribbean. I just wanted some owners advice on a few things. All I have is our salesperson, who is very nice, but is the WeEstin side of things. Thanks.

We are considering purchasing a Westin Residence in the Carribbean. I just wanted some owners advice on a few things. All I have is our salesperson, who is very nice, but is the WeEstin side of things. Thanks.

I am a Westin owner at Ka'anapali. Do you have any specific questions? or just looking for advice? Which Caribbean property are you looking at?

Thanks for responding. We own in Maui as well. These are full purchase/ownership residences.

I own in Maui also and will answer any questions you have.

The Westin Residences are different than the timeshares in Maui and elsewhere (I own some of those but no residences yet). There are also W Residences. They will be building one locally in another year or so. I think with the residences you actually are buying a condo with hotel services. I'd be interested in more information myself, particularly as it relates to the real estate value of such an ownership. Timeshares are nice luxuries but not a good financial proposition. I wonder if the Residences could be better in that respect (although they are typically fairly high end).

Would you be participating in the rental program? The fine print favors the management/developer so much that it doesn't look appealing as an investment (unless you're buying into the management company)

Items to think about:
Fees; quarterly deep cleaning, OS&E package.
Insurance; who chooses the policy?
Reserves.
Condominium BoD?
Developer owned units get rental priority.
No rate miniumum, Developer can have 15 complimentary nights.
Owner must pay for all amenities when staying (many condo-tels grant the owners some amenities, internet access, parking, business center, housekeeping).
Anything less than a 7 night stay by the owner counts as one week against the 12 permitted.

Unit owners are not required to join the rental program and may select another agency to manage their unit. Although I think most unit owners would join the program, think about the quality issues that could be created by 10% of the owners doing it their own way.

The term is 2-3 years. If owners decide not to renew with management the quality of the entire complex could plummet leaving you with a hard to rent/harder to sell hotel room that you may not even want to use.

To rqd, thanks for your input you raise lots of good points to consider. To anyone else just reading this, the Westin Residences are completely different from the Starwood timeshares. This is a full ownership condo purchase with hotel ammenities. We are looking at St. Lucia. We live in Calif. so we couldn't get there that often, so we're looking at owning something at a location we love with the investment potential.

Aside from the initial cost, the maint. fees and insurance are combined and quite high. The rental program gives you 50%, however they still take out 5% to set aside for replacment fund, and 10% for something else. You do get the assurance that (hopefully!) that Westin will take care of all the maintance properly. If you go with an outside managment company, there is some uncertainty about the proper maintanance and how frequently will the unit be rented.

The property at St. Lucia will not have a hotel, so the units will be from the condo rental program. The point that rqd raised about the developer owned units being rented out first is a real thing to consider. We didn't think about that one! I'm thinking that it will sell out!, but who knows?!

RQD are you a residence owner? How has it worked out for you? Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with this!

To rqd, thanks for your input you raise lots of good points to consider. To anyone else just reading this, the Westin Residences are completely different from the Starwood timeshares. This is a full ownership condo purchase with hotel ammenities. We are looking at St. Lucia. We live in Calif. so we couldn't get there that often, so we're looking at owning something at a location we love with the investment potential.

Aside from the initial cost, the maint. fees and insurance are combined and quite high. The rental program gives you 50%, however they still take out 5% to set aside for replacment fund, and 10% for something else. You do get the assurance that (hopefully!) that Westin will take care of all the maintance properly. If you go with an outside managment company, there is some uncertainty about the proper maintanance and how frequently will the unit be rented.

The property at St. Lucia will not have a hotel, so the units will be from the condo rental program. The point that rqd raised about the developer owned units being rented out first is a real thing to consider. We didn't think about that one! I'm thinking that it will sell out!, but who knows?!

RQD are you a residence owner? How has it worked out for you? Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with this!

To rqd, thanks for your input you raise lots of good points to consider. To anyone else just reading this, the Westin Residences are completely different from the Starwood timeshares. This is a full ownership condo purchase with hotel ammenities. We are looking at St. Lucia. We live in Calif. so we couldn't get there that often, so we're looking at owning something at a location we love with the investment potential.

Aside from the initial cost, the maint. fees and insurance are combined and quite high. The rental program gives you 50%, however they still take out 5% to set aside for replacment fund, and 10% for something else. You do get the assurance that (hopefully!) that Westin will take care of all the maintance properly. If you go with an outside managment company, there is some uncertainty about the proper maintanance and how frequently will the unit be rented.

The property at St. Lucia will not have a hotel, so the units will be from the condo rental program. The point that rqd raised about the developer owned units being rented out first is a real thing to consider. We didn't think about that one! I'm thinking that it will sell out!, but who knows?!

RQD are you a residence owner? How has it worked out for you? Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with this!

To rqd, thanks for your input you raise lots of good points to consider. To anyone else just reading this, the Westin Residences are completely different from the Starwood timeshares. This is a full ownership condo purchase with hotel ammenities. We are looking at St. Lucia. We live in Calif. so we couldn't get there that often, so we're looking at owning something at a location we love with the investment potential.

Aside from the initial cost, the maint. fees and insurance are combined and quite high. The rental program gives you 50%, however they still take out 5% to set aside for replacment fund, and 10% for something else. You do get the assurance that (hopefully!) that Westin will take care of all the maintance properly. If you go with an outside managment company, there is some uncertainty about the proper maintanance and how frequently will the unit be rented.

The property at St. Lucia will not have a hotel, so the units will be from the condo rental program. The point that rqd raised about the developer owned units being rented out first is a real thing to consider. We didn't think about that one! I'm thinking that it will sell out!, but who knows?!

RQD are you a residence owner? How has it worked out for you? Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with this!

To rqd, thanks for your input you raise lots of good points to consider. To anyone else just reading this, the Westin Residences are completely different from the Starwood timeshares. This is a full ownership condo purchase with hotel ammenities. We are looking at St. Lucia. We live in Calif. so we couldn't get there that often, so we're looking at owning something at a location we love with the investment potential.

Aside from the initial cost, the maint. fees and insurance are combined and quite high. The rental program gives you 50%, however they still take out 5% to set aside for replacment fund, and 10% for something else. You do get the assurance that (hopefully!) that Westin will take care of all the maintance properly. If you go with an outside managment company, there is some uncertainty about the proper maintanance and how frequently will the unit be rented.

The property at St. Lucia will not have a hotel, so the units will be from the condo rental program. The point that rqd raised about the developer owned units being rented out first is a real thing to consider. We didn't think about that one! I'm thinking that it will sell out!, but who knows?!

RQD are you a residence owner? How has it worked out for you? Sounds like you've had a lot of experience with this!

Sorry every one....I didn't mean to post my reply four times!!! Technical difficulties! I don't know how to get rid of all the duplicates!!!!

Would you be participating in the rental program? The fine print favors the management/developer so much that it doesn't look appealing as an investment (unless you're buying into the management company)

Items to think about:
Fees; quarterly deep cleaning, OS&E package.
Insurance; who chooses the policy?
Reserves.
Condominium BoD?
Developer owned units get rental priority.
No rate miniumum, Developer can have 15 complimentary nights.
Owner must pay for all amenities when staying (many condo-tels grant the owners some amenities, internet access, parking, business center, housekeeping).
Anything less than a 7 night stay by the owner counts as one week against the 12 permitted.

Unit owners are not required to join the rental program and may select another agency to manage their unit. Although I think most unit owners would join the program, think about the quality issues that could be created by 10% of the owners doing it their own way.

The term is 2-3 years. If owners decide not to renew with management the quality of the entire complex could plummet leaving you with a hard to rent/harder to sell hotel room that you may not even want to use.

Thanks for the information. I tried to get some information about the local Residences but Starwood never even acknowledged the e-mail.

Are you saying that for what you pay you only get 12 weeks of use? I thought if you purchased one of these it was yours to use as you saw fit and could theoretically live there year round.

Hi emuyshondt....I always see your posts at Tug and I post there as well as califgal, anyhow I wanted to let you know that I believe each residence is a a bit different in regards to the rental program. There are different programs within the same resort. For example at ST. Lucia there is a 4 year rental contract and you can only stay in your unit for 4 weeks out the the entire year with restrictions on peak times, I know there is also a shortercontract 2 or 3 years, and the split is 60 Wetin and 40 owner. I know that sounds like a real rip off considering it is your own unit. However for us living in Calif. and having 2 school age children, we could only goin the summer months. We'd want to rent it out at Chirstmas since that is top dollar season. We are looking at long term investment, and eventually staying there for longer periods of time.

Of course one does not have to enter into the rental program and can live there or rent it out with a property manager. But as rqd mentioned, who knows how the upkeep will be with the property management company? At least withy Westin, there hopefully would be no worries.

I purchased a residence at the Westin Riverfront Resort in Avon, Colorado at the Beaver Creek ski resort in October. The development is currently in pre-construction and is scheduled to open in the fall of 2008. Starwood had a press release on this the other day which I saw posted in another thread. Westin is also planning on building timeshares in an adjacent building to the hotel. The hotel is being developed where all units are owned by individual owners so there will be no competition from Starwood or the developer directly in the rental program. The units range from studio’s to three bedrooms.

I also own a Marriott timeshare in Maui and was intrigued by the condo-hotel concept and looked into properties at the W Las Vegas and Westin Napa. I decided to go with the Westin Riverfront since my family loves to ski and the Colorado Rockies, and we plan on visiting the property during the winter and summer seasons. Also, the pricing did not seem completely out of line when compared to the other condo hotel properties I looked at as well as other condo’s and timeshares in the Beaver Creek/Vail area. The Westin Riverfront also does not have any restrictions on how often the owner can stay in the unit (Napa had a 30 day maximum per year). For the rental program the basic split is 50%/50% between the owner and property manager. I conservatively don’t expect to be cash flow positive for the first several years as a result of participating in the rental program, but hope that as the resort area continues to grow this will eventually change.

While researching this purchase and the other properties I looked at, I did not find a lot of resources on condo-hotels, but did learn that the policies regarding owner usage and the rental program vary significantly from property to property. In the end we decided to move forward with this purchase since we viewed this as a second home where we loved the location and felt that we would visit the property a couple times every year. We also liked the fact that all of the units would be individually owned, so that the system the property manager uses for allocating rental units should not place a bias on specific units based on who owns them.

to da49130....I'm wondering what payment schedule was required when you purchased. For St. .Lucia they require a deposit and various percentages along the way during contruction. At the end you pay the last 5% and they hand the unit over. We are waiting to hear if they have financing for this process. Initally they indicated they would, but when I phoned it wasn't in place as yet. We really don't want to take equity out of our home here to pay up front, and would prefer a loan for the condo.

It sounds like their procedures vary a lot, given the location and the variety in the rental programs

Shar,

Buying a property in the USA like Avon could be easily financed typically as a second home or investment property (ie., 20% or less down). International condos typically have international financing companies. I think in the case of Roco Ki the Carribean bank's terms were interest rate around 10% with minimum of 35% down. I don't recall but this may have even been a variable rate loan. I didn't look at this as a favorable option and opted for the home equity route. Additionally...even if you went with a Carribean bank, you still needed to make the incremental cash payments (20% at contract, 20% at ground breaking, 20% at roof completion, 40% at closing) then recoup the funds by financing at closing. I don't believe the banks do what would be consider a construction loan.

Richard

We put 20% down at the time we signed the contracts and selected our unit. No other payments are required until Summer/Fall 08 when construction is complete. At that point we'll most likely finance the balance as a second home or use home equity.

Thanks for the information. We are anxious to hear from our sales rep to find out what they've arranged with financing. We just might be better off waiting for a Residence in the USA in a location that works for us.

I tried to get some information about the local Residences but Starwood never even acknowledged the e-mail.


Same here. They have this very nice site (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/interests/interest_home.html?category=RESIDENCES) and you click on find out more and there's a Flash web form and you click submit and it fills our the to:, Subject and Body of your windows default email client... not a good sales tool. I'm surprised, really, such poor marketing. :(

Thanks! I requested information through that site.

Do you know if there is any way to "exchange" residences? If you buy at one, do you get preferred rates to stay at other ones?

We ended up not going to St. Lucia and decided not to buy for a number of reasons. First of all they never got the pricing to us the day they said they would, we cancelled about 14-10 days before the event and we never found out the real prices. We rec'd our sales package which was lots of "fluff". Secondly, it finally hit us that living in CA , St. Lucia is nearly the same length of a plane ride as to London! The rental program is not equitable, and you have to pay for the condo "upfront" while it's under constuction.

I'm very curious about the whole sales event and posted questions here on FT about it, but I guess there weren't any FT members who went.

Anyhow to answer the question, NO TRADING, you own your unit and that's it. If in the rental program, you only get to stay in your unit for limited times that must be scheduled WAY in advance. I've noticed that depending where the condo/hotel is located there are different lengths of time you can stay in your unit if in the rental program. Like I think in Napa CA you can only stay a total of 30 days out of the year!!

I'm seriously considering purchasing into the Westin CampoReal in Portugal. ^ :)

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3036

Oh, I didin't read about any preferred rates for owners either.

Thanks for the additional information. It doesn't sound like the residences are that great of an investment. I wrote to them at the website mentioned earlier. We'll see if they ever respond.

i have a toll free phone # for Le paradis sales office ...Let me know .

Thanks for the additional information. It doesn't sound like the residences are that great of an investment. I wrote to them at the website mentioned earlier. We'll see if they ever respond.

I would have to concur based on the information I received and the conversations I've had with a realtor for their Avon, Co project. Once you move beyond the initial purchase price, their initial fee, quarterly fees, and taxes seem a bit prohibitive. I still have one more person to speak with who handles the rental of the units to see if she has any rental income projections.

How could I forget...since it was just mentioned ...the maintanace fees are very high!(At Le Paradis, anyway.)

To TTT103....you said you were going to speak to the person who handles the rentals for projected income. Is that through the Starwood rental program? They don't guarantee you anything and they have the right to give your unit away for free 15 days per year. When you sign up with an outside property management company, I would then worry about the maintance factor.

That's a good question. I don't know where Jill Alexander is from. I believe she is with East/West Resorts (the developer). Any way, we are looking at the following numbers for a Studio Plus unit:

Estimated annual property taxes $3,154
Estimated dues and assessments $7,571 ($1,892.75 per quarter)

The purchase price is around $400K +/-.

I'm really having second thoughts about this entire project. It seems like an awful lot of money for an overglorified hotel room that I may use a handful of times a year. The more I read, the more concerned I am about the location. Beaver Creek is upscale, but we're talking Avon--home of Walmart and other big box stores. Unless Jill really sheds some light on the rental program, I think that I may pass on the project. In addition, I'm not thrilled that I may have to donate 15 nights a year.

Have you asked for a copy of the rental program paperwork? That is something they can email you. The one for St. Lucia really put us off! Besides splitting the rent 50/50, they hold back 10% and an additional 5%. You also have to pay for 4 deep cleanings for the unit each year.

The maintanance fees are .88/sq.ft. in St. Lucia. Being in the Bahamas there is a benefit of no taxes on rental income for several years, so that was a bit of the plus, but did not make up for a lousy rental program and high fees. 1 bdrm. unit was starting at $495K but we never saw the actual real prices.

I'm not familiar with Beaver Creek. St. Lucia is marked the next big carribbean destination, but who really knows how it will all turn out.

It's a lot of $$$ to part with. We say it's great for someone with gobs of money and they want another vacation home if they were one plane ride away.

As for the rental programs, I think each property may vary a bit, but the basics are the same. Let's say you did not reserve at a peak time to stay there yourself, and you thought your unit would surely be rented out for top dollar. With the fact that they can give your unit away 15 nights/ year, they could actually give it away during that peak time that you were hoping for the top rental dollar. I'm sure they give nights away at peak times to their employees as a perk.

So there's lots to consider, as you well know!