KLM Flying Dutchman - Destination Wishlist

KLM already has such a very broad scope of international flights going to places few airlines venture, i.e. Almaty, Accra or Bonaire.

Not certain if discussed before, but would like to see others suggestions in regards to where KLM should fly to next.

On my list, I would like to see KLM fly...
AMS-Buenos Aires
AMS-Havana
AMS-Bali
AMS-San Juan
AMS-Honolulu (would this be the first European carrier with non-stop flight?!?!)
and lastly...
AMS-LAS (from one sin city to the next) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

And I would really like to see some flights merged, ie. how much demand could there possibly be for AMS-Seoul. Have that flight continue on to TPE and reschedule the AMS-BKK-TPE to AMS-BKK-Phuket for example.

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Going back to the bAAsics

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idealflyer:
KLM already has such a very broad scope of international flights going to places few airlines venture, i.e. Almaty, Accra or Bonaire.

Not certain if discussed before, but would like to see others suggestions in regards to where KLM should fly to next.

On my list, I would like to see KLM fly...
AMS-Buenos Aires
AMS-Havana
AMS-Bali
AMS-San Juan
AMS-Honolulu (would this be the first European carrier with non-stop flight?!?!)
and lastly...
AMS-LAS (from one sin city to the next) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

And I would really like to see some flights merged, ie. how much demand could there possibly be for AMS-Seoul. Have that flight continue on to TPE and reschedule the AMS-BKK-TPE to AMS-BKK-Phuket for example.

</font>


Idealflyer, KLM has lost some 400 million $, do you want them to loose even more ? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

They operated AMS-EZE in the past, but with the recent monetary problems there, I doubt that they come back any time soon...

Havanna is served by MP, San Juan by CO.HNL is served by NW and ofen advertised on klm.nl, same with LAS.At least a dozen flights on NW per day...

DPS will definitely came back as a popular tourist destination and there are certainly some dutch origins in that area, but I doubt that KLM will fly there, but maybe MP again

I don`t think it makes sense to continue long 747 flights at all, especially the AMS-BKK-TPE one ( you need a 747 for ten hours to do BKK-TPE-BKK, let a partner fly it with smaller planes ), but that is the result of lacking a serious partner in the region.On the other hand many european airlins have pulled TPE, so maybe they really earn some money on that route...

Finally I doubt that we will see many new routes soon, I guess the opposite will become reality ....

[This message has been edited by Threy (edited 05-17-2003).]

oh, i think airlines will for sure try to experiment on some routes with all their grounded aircraft.

Here's mine:

just ONE --
AMS-DTW
AMS-MSP
AMS-MEM

Top of my wish list :

LHR - DUR

Direct
Nonstop

Two cities.

AMS - Nagoya (please come back!)
AMS - Calcutta - Sydney

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Uli:
oh, i think airlines will for sure try to experiment on some routes with all their grounded aircraft. </font>


Not necessarily with grounded aircraft, but I guess KLM is looking closely at LH`s BBJ experiment.The only US route cancelled after Sep. 11 was AMS-ATL, a flight with very solid loads upfront but mediocre loads in the back.Maybe we will see KLM operating "all C" planes to some destinations in the near future...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idealflyer:

And I would really like to see some flights merged, ie. how much demand could there possibly be for AMS-Seoul. Have that flight continue on to TPE and reschedule the AMS-BKK-TPE to AMS-BKK-Phuket for example.

[/B]</font>

I have flown AMS-SEL (well, ICN now) several times over the last 2 or 3 years.

The flights were always busy both ways.

The Korean shipbuilding industry is very busy and this generates a lot of traffic.

Bear in mind on AMS&gt;BKK&gt;TPE the busines they do on cargo is very good. I use this route a lot and I often ask about the load and they always say cargo is full.

AMS-AKL. Then we wouldn't have all the problems with MH (although that is exactly why it won't happen).

I've also flown AMS-SEL and AMS-INC. South Korea has one of the largest cargo airports in the world, not surprisingly, it was always a 747-combi, so I guess even with the lighter loads that I experienced, the cargo capacity would make that route work.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Threy:

Not necessarily with grounded aircraft, but I guess KLM is looking closely at LH`s BBJ experiment.The only US route cancelled after Sep. 11 was AMS-ATL, a flight with very solid loads upfront but mediocre loads in the back.Maybe we will see KLM operating "all C" planes to some destinations in the near future...

</font>

You mean all "World Select" class planes with Y seating and C price I guess http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif - sarcasm switched off -

Hmm, IMO something like two weekly flights to LAS or SAN would be an interesting experiment. Many pax certainly would pay a little more for a direct flight instead of routing through DTW with all those extra hours waiting and addtl. flight time.

AMS-HNL would certainly be interesting too, as no other european airline could sell it. Two weekly flight should be possible to sell IMO. But is this routing doable with a 747 or MD11?

And of course SYD! MH seems not to be a very good alternative... But again the range-problem...?

LGW, unless they're going to reduce the ridiculous fares ex-LCY.

I'd rather they sort out the problems with MH, rather then replace them - at least for me, their Y product is vastly superior to KL's.

I've yet to try MH, but the posts I've seen do concern me....I was/am hoping to take her indoors down under next year, but unless I get confirmed upgrades from KL, then no way on a long haul like that. So, I would like to see stronger KL participation in both AUs and NZ....perhaps if the ongoing rumours regarding One World turn out to be creditable, then that may be my answer.

Here are my thoughts,

KLM could certainly further cement
their alliances by flying :

AMS-BKK/KUL-SYD. If NWA resumes NRT/KIX-KUL
and LAX-SYD ops this would be an ideal
freight/pax node.

AMS-LGW should be resumed...one more
interline conx point for europe bound US
travelers ( eg. CMH-DTW-LGW-AMS-Europe )

DPS is a good idea. NWA wanted to fly KIX-
DPS in the mid '90s . I think they could
both market conx via NRT/KIX , rather than
op. a nonstop AMS-DPS

In essence. NWA and KLM could once again
reconnect many of their destinations to
reinforce the global aspect of their tight
, and very clever , alliance.

I would also like to see more, and better
scheduled AMS-Russia service, and India.

Oh, and let's not for get the Mid-East.
Baku ? Baghdad ? word has it that the
very established Arab community in Detroit-
Dearborn MI has smartly, once again,
petitioned NWA to apply for AMS-BAG
( in the past AMS-BEY/AMM routes were
sought)service.

I am very interested in seeing where these
carries focus on if and when the global
ecconomy improves.

LeSnail

AMS-BTS, at least a few times a week. F50 will do.

BTS only has one network carrier: CSA, and one LCC: SkyEurope.

--Jano

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jano:
AMS-BTS, at least a few times a week. F50 will do.

BTS only has one network carrier: CSA, and one LCC: SkyEurope.

--Jano</font>

Hi Jano,

I guess BTS has the same problems several other former EW destinations currently have, KLM has not enough planes to serve those cities .... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

They once offered Dortmund, Münster/Paderborn and Leipzig/Halle out of Germany, but after LH took over EW they simply had not enough aircraft to serve those destinations anymore.Same could be true for BTS, either they find a partner for that route or they have to find some F 50 or 70.But AMS-BTS on a F 50 can be a loong flight...

Does anybody know, if KLM has any planes to retire the F 50 and F 70 soon.I am surprised that they did not order a regional jet ( family ) yet, I was pretty sure that KLM exel tested the waters with their ERJ`s and that KLM would follow with an order....

Not an important factor on shorther routes like DUS-AMS, but several cities in Germany ( Stuttgart and Nuernberg come to my mind ) should be served with a Jet asap ....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
You mean all "World Select" class planes with Y seating and C price I guess http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif - sarcasm switched off -

</font>

Sure and remember: No Preassignment of seats over the phone at all anymore, if you are booked in one of those funny name booking classes !! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by idealflyer:
KLM already has such a very broad scope of international flights going to places few airlines venture</font>

You should see the list of destinations they used to serve! (I'll see if I can dig it up somewhere.

johan

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Threy:
Hi Jano,</font>

Hi Threy

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I guess BTS has the same problems several other former EW destinations currently have, KLM has not enough planes to serve those cities .... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif</font>

But, did not they ground some planes? Or, maybe BTS is too small. I mean, I fly out of VIE to TYS 3x a year and notice whole bunch of Slovakians (some 5 to 15) on 11AM flight (the one I always take). Now, there are 4 flights VIE-AMS a day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">They once offered Dortmund, Münster/Paderborn and Leipzig/Halle out of Germany, but after LH took over EW they simply had not enough aircraft to serve those destinations anymore.Same could be true for BTS, either they find a partner for that route or they have to find some F 50 or 70.But AMS-BTS on a F 50 can be a loong flight...</font>

I do not care! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I do TYS-VIE, so I arrive to VIE, need to wait for a bus for some 2 hrs to get on a bus to BTS (the ride takes some 75 mins), then another bus (4 hrs ride) to get to a big city close to SLD. If there was a direct flight to BTS that would shorten my trip. For me, time-wise, DTW-AMS (on a plane) = VIE-SLD (on a bus) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

re: "partner for that route" Well, maybe Malev flying BUD-BTS-AMS on a CRJ.

Is there anyone from KLM lurking here?

Jano

Of course, how could I overlook the Land of Oz. Australia definitely needs more streamlined operations there as MH is confusing and lacking at best. Also, wouldn't they be better off codesharing KUL-MNL instead of running a 747 on that route?

I also like the BKK continuing on to Australia option however, they would be competing head on with world class carriers like British Airways or Qantas. What would work out best is to increase flights to KUL (at least daily) and then codeshare from there to SIN, CGK, DPS, MNL, etc. At the same time, do they have enough flights from Europe to Tokyo to feed into NW Asia's system? Osaka would help.

I am still surprised nobody mentioned other cities in Latin America like Buenos Aires which would use the benefits. Also, NW seems to be lacking on routes to South America, maybe they should implement a mini-hub like Tampa has been for the Caribbean. Besides, it would be nice to use a stopover in Bonaire or Curacao en route to Brazil for example. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At the same time, I wonder how profitable such flights currently could be say between Bonaire-Lima on a 747 for example!?!?



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Going back to the bAAsics

OK, here we go. Discontinued destinations (courtesy of http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/805915/4/ )

Dated back to 1988.

Anchorage 4x weekly 747; discontinued 1991.
Atlanta 7x weekly 747/M11/767; disc after 9-11
Baku 3x weekly 767 disc 2001
Bali/Denpasar 2x weekly 747 disc 1998
Baltimore 4x weekly 747 disc 1995 [flights transferred to IAD]
Bogota 1x weekly D10 disc 1994
Buenos Aires 3x weekly 747 disc 2001
Bombay/Mumbai 3x weekly 747 [now daily by NW]
Calgary/Banff 3x weekly 747 disc 1996
Casablanca 7x weekly 737 disc 1998 [now operated by HV]
Colombo 3x weekly 747 disc 1996
Conakry 3x weekly 310 disc 1996
Dhaka 2x weekly 747? disc 1996
Freetown 2x weekly 767 disc 1998
Guatemala 5x weekly 747 disc 2001
Halifax 3x weekly 767 disc 1996
Harare 2x weekly 747 disc 2000
Ho Chi Minh City 2x weekly 747 disc 1998
Jeddah 3x weekly 767 disc 2001
Karachi 3x weekly 747 disc 2000
Khartoum 2x weekly 310 disc 1996
Lilongwe 2x weekly 310 disc 1996
Lome 2x weekly M11/767 disc 2001
Melbourne 2x weekly 747 disc 1994
Minneapolis 7x weekly 747 disc 2000 [now operated by NW]
Monrovia 2x weekly 310 disc 1991
Montevideo 2x weekly 747 disc 1996
Muscat 6x weekly 767 disc 9-11
Nagoya 4x M11 disc 2002
Orlando 4x weekly 747 disc 1994
Ottawa 3x weekly 767 disc 1996
Panama 3x weekly 747 disc 1998
Philadelphia 7x weekly [operated by NW] disc 2000]
Port of Spain 2x weekly D10 disc 1991
Rio de Janeiro 3x weekly 747 disc 2001
Sana'a 3x weekly 767 disc 9-11
San Jose CR 3x weekly D10 disc 1998
San Juan 2x weekly M11/747? disc 1998
Santiago de Chile 3x weekly 747 disc 2001
Sapporo 4x weekly M11 disc 2002
Sydney 3x weekly 747 disc 2000
Tanger 2x weekly 737 disc 1994
Tunis 2x weekly 737 disc 1996
Washington DC 4x weekly 747 disc 1996 [now operated 7x weekly by NW]

johan

To confirm a previous post...bring back Gatwick to AMS...CityHopper will do...the connections that KL must miss out on....