Asia - SE Asia experts... need some trip planning help.

I know the "I need help planning an itinerary" question pops up weekly here. That said, I need help planning an itinerary. Travel will likely be in February 2008, but would like to have most plans in order to redeem FF miles when the window opens in March.

Some things of note (itinerary starter below):
- I know that we're cramming a TON into a 2-week trip (should have 13 nights on the ground in SE Asia). However, from experience, I know that I'd rather see the tip of the iceberg in many locations (i.e. the Cliffs Notes version) than an in-depth look at fewer. This way, we can see what we like and explore certain areas in more detail on a future trip.
- Adding to the previous point, I know all cities have their own flavor and flair. However, I'd rather dive deeper into the cultural centers of country than spend more than a couple days in a major city, even one as diverse and exciting as Bangkok (again, which could be explored in more detail on a future trip).
- I also would think that FTers would recognize the fun in traveling from city A to City B (i.e. experiencing new airports or airlines). So while some people would think it's nuts to travel every 2nd or 3rd day, I enjoy that.
- As an AA Platinum, I'm a bit out of luck when it comes to flying OneWorld airlines through most of SE Asia. So, I've tried to sneak in a day in Hong Kong to see the city, and (perhaps more importantly!) check out the top-notch lounges they have at HKIA.
- Previous SE Asia trip took us to Bali and Singapore, and while I'd love to get back down that way (and see KL), I would like to narrow the focus to Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam (with perhaps a 24-hour stint over to Hong Kong)


OK, all that said... an initial blush plan would look something like this (assuming I could get the FF seats into and out of the selected destinations)

Korean Air IAD-ICN-SGN
Ho Chih Minh City- 2 nights
Fly to Hanoi (Vietnam Airlines)- 2 nights
Fly to Hong Kong (Cathay, op by Vietnam Airlines)- 1 night
Fly to Bangkok (Cathay)- 2 nights
Fly to Chiang Mai (Bangkok Air)- 3 nights
Fly to Koh Samui (Bangkok Air)- 2 nights (wife wants to hit a beach for a couple days)
Fly to Siem Reap (Bangkok Air via BKK)- 1 night (but leave 10pm final night to ICN-IAD, so 1 1/2 days total)

OK... thoughts? I know it's nuts, but what would be worth cutting out. I'm tempted to nix the Hong Kong portion... the Wing and Pier lounges may have to wait! Also, would it be worth it to add/substitite Hue or Danang (perhaps add Hue and remove Koh Samui for my wife's beach fix)??

Thanks in advance!

you are nuts, but not the way you think. It's not crazy to jump around from city to city, you are just jumping around from the wrong city to city.

for instance to go to hanoi and not to jump to ha long harbor by bus and boat is wrong (a two day trip to do it right)

You're also assuming america's ease of travel is southeast asia, which isn't exactly right. (the travel time can take longer).

finally you're using expensive airlines. i believe air asia flies from hong kong to bangkok.

if it were me, i'd skip saigon and spend the additional time to go to ha long harbor or in siem reap.

but i also believe you need to check your routing. If you can get cathay from the states, you may be able to stop off in hong kong going or coming effectively givijng yourself another day. You can certainly stop there for less than 24 hours

so unless you particularly want to stop in icn, your routing would be states-hkg-wherever

as far as your questions.
1. while hoi ann (danang) has a beach, it doesn't compare to the thai beaches. But boy can you get cheap clothes made there. danang itself has a museum, but it you stay, you'll want to stay in hoi ann.

2. Hue doesnt have a beach that i know of

3. there are long long discussions of beaches about the various alternatives of thai beaches in koh samui versus phuket versus koh phi phi etc. Whatever the discussions, the flights are easier into phuket. It has international service.

OK... after my wife saw the potential itinerary in writing, she convinced me to nix Hong Kong and Siem Reap to make the travel a bit more manageable and let us see the other sites in a bit more detail.

there is no wrong trip in southeast asia. And by the way, depending on what you do and what American allows you still could easily do hong kong if your flight goes thru there.

First question you need to figure out is where you want to go. I would definately point you to thailand, but not as you have it in your limited time. too much in chiang mai which can be done in a night and two days. too little in bangkok where there is a lot to see and do. You've also not mentioned chiang rai or the golden triangle which are possible.

The way it works in thailand the north is very hilly but with hills unlike those seen anywhere else (sort of giant dunes) while the south has gorgeous beaches. The ideal has a bit of both.

I'd also suggest that if you go to vietnam in your limited time, you should probably concentrate on the north. Hanoi 2 days and ha long harbor 2 days or hanoi and hoi an and possible hue (which is about 3 hours from hoi an). Ho chi minh city isn't as interesting as the north.

That said, if i were choosing Siem Reap and Angor or Vietnam and could only pick one, I'd probably pick angor.

Now have i thoroughly confused you

On our recent trip to Southeast Asia, the prepaid, in stone portions were these - we arrived in Ho Chi Minh City on 16 November, and we departed Bangkok on 27 November.

We stayed flexible in between, and ended up spending our time thus - two nights in HCMC; a boat to Chau Doc and one night there; another boat to Phnom Penh and one night there; a bus to Siem Reap and four nights there; and a flight to Bangkok and three nights there. The route was planned, but the times and modes of travel were DBE (Determined By Events).

Next year we plan on flying to Hanoi on 15 November and returning from Bangkok on 1 December. So far we are roughly planning on five nights in North Vietnam, five nights in Laos and five nights in Northern Thailand, but we will remain flexible and stay and/or move on as events dictate.

I know this doesn't address the OP's questions, but it's our experience, FWIW. I don't get all the backtracking, especially to Hong Kong. Have you plotted all that itinerary on a map? I would maybe do HCMC-Danang-Hanoi-Siem Reap-Chiang Mai-Bangkok.

But, to each his or her own, for sure. We pack a lot of places into short periods of time our ownselves, but we are of the DBE school of travel as to how long we stay.

As previously posted, there is no wrong trip to Southeast Asia.

If you are looking for exotic spots, I would leave Hong Kong out of the schedule. You should try to visit Bali, Indonesia. It is a cool and cozy beach place to go and it's highly recommended for good dining, massage, visiting the volcano (in Ubud, 1 hour drive from airport), rice fields, temples.

Saigon would be a weekend thing, so is Hanoi. In fact pick one of the two. Hoi Ann is good but it requires further connection. Have you considered going to Burma? It's really a good place to visit despite the press coverage. The country is mostly unexploited...go to Bagan, Mandalay, you will love the peace and the beauty of the nature.

Korean Air IAD-ICN-SGN
Ho Chih Minh City- 2 nights
Fly to Hanoi (Vietnam Airlines)- 2 nights
Fly to Hong Kong (Cathay, op by Vietnam Airlines)- 1 night
Fly to Bangkok (Cathay)- 2 nights
Fly to Chiang Mai (Bangkok Air)- 3 nights
Fly to Koh Samui (Bangkok Air)- 2 nights (wife wants to hit a beach for a couple days)
Fly to Siem Reap (Bangkok Air via BKK)- 1 night (but leave 10pm final night to ICN-IAD, so 1 1/2 days total)


Thanks in advance!

Better check the map...you're back tracking in some spots. I think the more efficient (and maybe then cheaper) route is:

HK/Hanoi/HCMC/Cambodia/Thailand
or HK/Cambodia/Hanoi/HCMC/Thailand

Since you need visa for Vietnam, need to do hanoi/hcmc together, even though side trip to Siem Reap (ankor wat) is shortest distance and has convenient flights.

If you are looking for exotic spots, I would leave Hong Kong out of the schedule. You should try to visit Bali, Indonesia. It is a cool and cozy beach place to go and it's highly recommended for good dining, massage, visiting the volcano (in Ubud, 1 hour drive from airport), rice fields, temples.

Saigon would be a weekend thing, so is Hanoi. In fact pick one of the two. Hoi Ann is good but it requires further connection. Have you considered going to Burma? It's really a good place to visit despite the press coverage. The country is mostly unexploited...go to Bagan, Mandalay, you will love the peace and the beauty of the nature.

Thanks... Hong Kong has already been dropped, as my wife won't support hauling there for the primary purpose of seeing the Cathay lounges!
We've actually been to Bali before, and while my wife would love to go back, we'll do that down the road.

I think we've resolved to picking either Hanoi or Saigon. Main issue is that while the North seems to be the "preferred" selection given limited time, it will be colder there, so stopping at a beach (i.e. China Beach) in February probably won't allow much beach time.

Had briefly thrown Burma and Laos onto the long list, but figure those will be for another trip.

I think we've resolved to picking either Hanoi or Saigon. Main issue is that while the North seems to be the "preferred" selection given limited time, it will be colder there, so stopping at a beach (i.e. China Beach) in February probably won't allow much beach time.


China Beach is in Danang, which is in the central part of the country. This is driving distance from either Hoi An or Hue. This area will be plenty hot enough for the beach in February as the temperature is similar to Saigon's year-round.

I have a slight preference for Saigon over Hanoi, but given what you expressed in your OP I'd say spend your VN time in Hanoi and vicinity, then hit a beach outside of VN.

I agree with the poster who said you can't go to Hanoi without going to Halong Bay and taking at least a one-night boat cruise. Check out Emeraude Classic Cruises and the photos. It's one of the most beautiful places I've been. It's three hours from Hanoi and I wouldn't take a bus, but get a driver. It's not much more expensive and may even be included in the price with Emeraude; I believe mine was.

Luang Prabang, Laos would be next on my list and then Siem Reap. These places are changing rapidly (another FTer told me when he visited Angor Wat in '95 there were 300 people visiting daily; when I went last year there were 7,000 a day and that number is only growing - go now). Some of the other places on your list you have plenty of time to see without expecting extreme changes.

Good luck

My wife and i did something along the lines of this last year, most people told us we were crazy to go so many places in such a short period of time. We ultimately had an amazing time, hitting KL, Saigon, Siem Reap, Bangkok, Pattaya, and Langkawi (and then Tokyo on the way home). Other places on our short list had been Laos and northern Thailand, as well as a few beach spots in VN. Like you we like the actual travel so it was no big deal to move every 2 days, we flew first or business instead of budget carriers and it wasn't that expensive and well worth it (and we tried to keep flights to less than 2 hours). We also just enjoyed being in nice hotels and going out in each city and eating and drinking, and most of these cities allowed us to try out some of the finest in the world.
You can't go wrong with the various options you have proposed. We ultimately revised our plans up until the day we left the US-- we werent confident enough to leave anything unsettled before we left, but now I see that would have been easy. If I had it to do over I would have skipped Malaysia and spent more time in VN. I saw 4 interesting options in VN that we passed on: (1) Phu Quoc Island (just got a brief write up in CondeNast Traveler), (2) Le Domaine de tam hai (see http://www.hotels-in-vietnam.com/hotels/Hoian/ledomainetamhai.html), (3) Con Dao Islands (see http://www.divevietnam.com/condao.shtml) and (4) Mui Ne/ Phan Thiet. Now that we live in Singapore we are plotting a trip to hit all these sometime soon.
Have a great time!!

I suggest front loading the trip with the not-to-be-missed sites, in case someone gets sick, etc. Since you want to get a range of sites, though, work from generally east to west, starting in Saigon, where you need a visa in advance. Then Cambodia, visa on arrival. Then Thailand, no visa. Then Laos (ok, I'm aware this is north), visa on arrival.

The main site in SE Asia is Angkor. Arrive day 1. Tour days 2, 3, 4. Depart day 5.

Next priority would probably be Luang Prabang in Lao, easily reachable from Bangkok.

Use a couple of days visiting Bangkok sites using river express boat to minimize traffic hassles.

The potential open jaw itinerary would be SGN,
then over land through the delta (http://www.sinhcafevn.com/Tour.asp?TypeTour=50) to Phnom Penh,
overland by 3 hour bus to Siem Reap,
fly to Bangkok,
fly to Luang Prabang,
fly to Bangkok.

You'll have a very different experience than S'pore or Bali.

The following itin is in March, 2007 and for this 10 time visitor to SE Asia. Having traveled in the area extensively, this is also an aggressive itinerary.

Day 1, 2, 3 to BKK
Day 4 to Hanoi on AF (afternoon, so day is shot),
Day 5 HAN-DAD on VN (Entire day ends up being travel)
taxi to Hoi An
Days 6,7,8,9, & 10 Hoi An beach and riverside. Possible day trip to Hue.
Day 11 DAD-SGN
Day 12 & day 13 SGN, day trip to My Tho
Day 13 evening my wife returns to BKK on AF
Day 13 morning I depart for Phu Quoc on VN
Day 14 wife in BKK, I'm in Phu Quoc
Day 15 wife to PDX, I go PHQ-SGN-BKK on VN and AF, arrive late evening
Day 16 Morning departure to Udon Th5;ani on Nok Air, surface to Vientiane, Laos via Freedom Bridge.
Day 17 VTE-LPQ (Luang Prabang) Lao Airlines
Day 18 Luang Prabang
Day 19 return to VTE Lao Airlines, try to get to Nong Khai in time for train or to Udon Thani for Nok
Day 20 Back to BKK
Day 21 BKK
Day 22 BKK-NRT-PDX NW

Despite none of the Asian flights being more than 1.5 hours, most of a day will be wasted getting to the Airport, checking in (AF wants 3 hours in BKK & SGN), clearing immigration (getting visas) and customs on arrival, arranging transport, changing money and getting to your hotel.

Flight schedules rarely mesh, flights can be delayed even first world carriers like AF and NW. Both AF and NW have caused me 3 hour and 24 hour delays on previous trips. One also needs a little time to acclimate. This traveler has been to each of the locations on the itin. with the exception of Phu Quoc and Vientiane and has exerienced much of what can happen in SE Asia travel

So, in conclusion, decide where is important and go there. I would skip HKG, PNH, Chiang Mai, and Samui this trip even though each has things of interest in varying degrees.

Siem Riep (Angkor) is a must see.

My FT self is somewhat satisfied by adding two new airports (Udon Thani and VTE) and one new airline (Lao Airlines). Obviously this is done without the benefit of my other half.

Please note that my wife cannot deal with a non-stop trip. This trip is slowed down to maintain my sanity and it goes to far fewer places than your original idea.

I'm still confused on how you are using miles to fly korean air (which is a delta partner), cathay (which is an american partner) and then use Vietnam all using miles.

First there are some other factors to consider on mileage trips. For instance Singapore, thai (both united partners) and i believe cathay fly nonstop from new york and may have schedules that work out to giving you an extra day overseas from dc. (the singapore air flight leaves at 11 p.m. from Newark, meaning you may be able to make a friday night flight if you can figure out a connection)

second there are some ways to do the trip with easy stopovers. As I mentioned above, you can fly united or cathay thru hongkong in a way that gives you a less than 24 hour stay in hong kong. it isnt ideal, but you do get a little taste of the city.

I do agree with much of the above that if you want a taste of the area, the best choices may be hanoi, bangkok and siem reap. A real beach is probably best taken in Thailand, but to do it there would probably mean like two days including travel and give you at best one full day at a beach, given your limited time. While i love the thai beaches, I'd probably lean toward the ha long harbor experience (which includes swimming) but isnt really a beach experience.

I'm still confused on how you are using miles to fly korean air (which is a delta partner), cathay (which is an american partner) and then use Vietnam all using miles.

First there are some other factors to consider on mileage trips. For instance Singapore, thai (both united partners) and i believe cathay fly nonstop from new york and may have schedules that work out to giving you an extra day overseas from dc. (the singapore air flight leaves at 11 p.m. from Newark, meaning you may be able to make a friday night flight if you can figure out a connection)

second there are some ways to do the trip with easy stopovers. As I mentioned above, you can fly united or cathay thru hongkong in a way that gives you a less than 24 hour stay in hong kong. it isnt ideal, but you do get a little taste of the city.

I do agree with much of the above that if you want a taste of the area, the best choices may be hanoi, bangkok and siem reap. A real beach is probably best taken in Thailand, but to do it there would probably mean like two days including travel and give you at best one full day at a beach, given your limited time. While i love the thai beaches, I'd probably lean toward the ha long harbor experience (which includes swimming) but isnt really a beach experience.


To clarify the mileage use... we will be redeeming a stockpile of NW miles I have. I'm thinking we'll have the easiest time redeeming on KE through ICN, based on my previous ease of KE redemption and the general consensus that KE has decent award avails to SE Asia (much better than NW, as the 330 flown to BKK has a real lack of biz class seats).

My only though of HKG on Cathay was to exploit my AA Plat status to enter the CX lounges, but have been convinced (namly by my wife) that is a huge time commitment just to see a lounge!

All other inter-Asia travel will be using $$, not miles.

given that u’re travelling business class and cost isn’t a big factor, bangkok airways is a good airline to use for ur flights in south-east asia, as the on-board service is excellent, not low-cost in any way, and the airline is often willing to be flexible if something goes wrong and u need to change ur ticket. there’s an FFP that u can join, called flyerbonus.

i notice that u plan to go through bangkok twice. my main suggestion is to move ur bangkok stay to near the end of ur holiday, as bangkok is where u’re likely to do most shopping in the markets and malls. this will give u the option of cannibalising one of ur days in bkk if, after two days on samui, u don’t want to leave (this happens to more people than u might think). of course, u won’t be able to capture the real essence of bangkok in a day, but u’ll have plenty of chances in future to pass through, while this isn’t the case for most other places on ur list.

ian. :)

in terms of how you get there korean or whatever you probably should forget about it and let northwest figure out how to do it because you're going to call northwest and they'll give you what they have anyway unless you particularly want or need a specific routing.

Further using mileage you may end up getting some combination of airlines.

My first tip would be to fly in to one place and another to fly out from and consider the possibility of reversing them depending on award availability.

But also consider in between measures. If you want to go to bangkok and northwest has trouble getting you there but can get you to singapore, put that on hold and look at air asia to fly between them for one leg.

My 2 cents here, FWIW, from a frequent traveller to SE Asia (and a photographer who is always looking for interesting shots)...

Fly IAD-ICN-BKK; you'll arrive in BKK in late evening. Overnight there for 1-2 nights depending on your wish.

Then follow this schedule:
Day 1-2 BKK
Day 3-6 fly BKK-LPQ (Luang Prabang) on Bangkok Airways; overnight there
Day 6-8 fly LPQ-VTE (Vientiane) on Lao Aviation; overnight there
Day 8-10 fly VTE-Hanoi on Vietnam Airlines; overnight there
Day 10-13 - fly Hanoi-Siem Reap on Vietnam Airlines; overnight there
Day 13-14 - you should be able to get a KE flight from REP-ICN non-stop aboard 737-800; double check this; otherwise, Bangkok Airways back to BKK then onward back to IAD

I think you are going to find with the heat and sheer magnitude of things to see on this trip, you'll be better off doing 2 fewer destinations than you put on your original list. HCMC is a non-starter in my opinion; besides the Cu Chi tunnels and the access to the Mekong Delta, your time might be better spent elsewhere. The above itinerary allows you three visas (Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia), 3 airlines, and will give you a general good flavor for the true beauty of SE Asia.

Don't bother with Burma on such a short trip - it will be difficult to achieve anything more than a glance here, there.