oneworld - Changing stopover to transit requires reissue, Qantas says

Just got off the phone with Qantas in Australia as I was making some changes to the dates of the flights on my DONE4. No problems with that, except that the lady I spoke to claimed the ticket has to be reissued because I am changing a stopover in SYD to a transit. I tried to argue with her based on my understanding of the xONEx rules, but got nowhere. Note that I am not proposing any change to the routing, just doing ASP-SYD-AKL on the same day instead of flying SYD-AKL a few days after ASP-SYD.

My plan is just to show up at SYD tomorrow morning, get on my flight to ASP and not have the ticket reissued. I hold reservations now for the flights I wanted, and I figure as long as I have the (paper) coupons and the reservations for the new dates I should be OK.

I really do want to avoid a reissue, not just because of the fee, but also because of the time this'll take.

Any comments or advice?

Clearly the agent is wrong. There is never any problem using a ticket issued for a stopover for a transit. Clearly you may be paying some unnecessary taxes, but the reissue cost is higher than the refunded tax. You shouldn't have any problem at all checking in as you suggest.

The only other reason you might want to do the reissue is if you are in the continent of origin and want to use the stopover quota later - the fact that you actually did a transit is probably not going to swing the argument if the ticket shows a stopover.

If you were about to take an AA flight I'd say just go, but being in Oz, and in the hands of QF, things seldom are as simple as that. Hyper-technically, I feel the agent is correct, because they probably have to refund you some taxes, and that can only be done through a reissue.

If reservations have said that it requires a reissue, do not be surprised if you are required to go to ticketing before you can check in for the flight. Also, since it is an international ticket, you may well have to go to T1 ( international terminal ) ticket desk to get it sorted so allow an extra 30 minutes for the travel to and from International

Are you sure that they said it needed reissue and not a revalidation? I would have thought that the date change would only need revalidation . Revalidation is a normal requirement with QF when making changes to a paper ticket.

If you do need a reissue, expect to pay the USD125 reissue fee plus a AUD75 service fee. If it is a revalidation, I believe that they charge a $25 service fee

Dave

christep, I'm not in the continent of origin, so the stopover/transit considerations do not come into play here (although it is not something I had realized). As you said, I'll be paying some unnecessary taxes, but the cost and hassle of reissuing a DONE4 (even in its final stages) will far exceed any potential savings.

Viajero, why do you say that things aren't as simple with QF? Sort sorts of problems could I run into? Would they refuse to check me in because I did not have the ticket reissued? Can the check-in agent see that it should have been reissued according the telephone reservations desk?

This is my first trip through Oz so I have no first-hand experience of QF. Thank you both for your comments.

I can't believe that even Qantas would be that stupid - a reservations agent isn't a ticketing agent; she simply doesn't know what she is talking about. The tickets are not "Valid FLT/Date shown" so you can turn up for any flight you want provided you use the coupons in order. Don't worry about it.

Dave Noble, I was planning on allowing for some extra time before the flight, but now I am getting somewhat concerned. I guess factoring in even more time is becoming necessary...

Are the domestic and international terminals that far apart in SYD that it takes 30 minutes to go back and forth?

I think I will just show up as christep suggests, but allow for extra time to argue and haggle. I guess I'll be printing the DONE4 rules just in case...

...Viajero, why do you say that things aren't as simple with QF? Sort sorts of problems could I run into? Would they refuse to check me in because I did not have the ticket reissued? Can the check-in agent see that it should have been reissued according the telephone reservations desk?...
Well, IME QF tends to go by the book, their book, and if their book says "reissue" then you are not going to be able to check-in without going through a reissue.

Dave Noble, I was planning on allowing for some extra time before the flight, but now I am getting somewhat concerned. I guess factoring in even more time is becoming necessary...

Are the domestic and international terminals that far apart in SYD that it takes 30 minutes to go back and forth?

Yes they are. To get between the terminals you will need to take a train which takes about 4 minutes and runs approximately every 15 minutes.

I wouldn't try waving rules in front of the check in staff, since it will do no good since they do not handle revalidations. With an paper ticket, the standard QF process is to require that you take the ticket to the ticket desk where they will verify that the change is valid and then validate (or reissue if necessary) the ticket.

Whenever I have made a change to a paper ticket with QF, they have always stated the proviso that the change is subject to the ticket being sighted and I have had to have the ticket verified by a ticketing desk before checking in. Also, the reservation has been noted with the information that the ticket needs validating so that the check in staff can see it

Dave

I think I will just show up as christep suggests, but allow for extra time to argue and haggle. I guess I'll be printing the DONE4 rules just in case...

I've never had any problems in changing a stopover to transit. It might be an issue if this is your continent of origin and you actually need that stopover somewhere else. Or if you're feeling parsimonious and want to claim the airport tax.

If you don't need the stopover and you can spare the 10€ or whatever, then just don't tell them anything about changing the stopover to a transit but just change the second flight to make a convenient connection. No matter what your ticket X/O coding says, you can still check in all the way through your final destination if you've got a couple of hours' transit somewhere.

This is how I've done it, no fuss.

/hv

Yes they are. To get between the terminals you will need to take a train which takes about 4 minutes and runs approximately every 15 minutes.

I wouldn't try waving rules in front of the check in staff, since it will do no good since they do not handle revalidations. With an paper ticket, the standard QF process is to require that you take the ticket to the ticket desk where they will verify that the change is valid and then validate (or reissue if necessary) the ticket.

Whenever I have made a change to a paper ticket with QF, they have always stated the proviso that the change is subject to the ticket being sighted and I have had to have the ticket verified by a ticketing desk before checking in

Dave

Whilst I have disagreed with Dave Noble in another thread, I am going to have to agree with him on this one.

QF is a stickler for rules and regulations and general bureaucracy, especially if they can make some money on it. ;)

Whilst I have disagreed with Dave Noble in another thread, I am going to have to agree with him on this one.

QF is a stickler for rules and regulations and general bureaucracy, especially if they can make some money on it. ;)

Hey, we don't have to agree on everything :) . Indeed. QF does like collecting their service fees whenever they can.


Something of note to consider. If the ticket was originally issued by AA and it does need a resissue, expect to get hit for a lot of fuel fines on remaining sectors.

Good luck tomorrow

Dave

Thanks everyone. I'll leave plenty of time in the morning to get things sorted out if need be.

The ticket was originally issued by BA in BKK, then recently reissued by BA in AMS. I just looked at the coupons, and although I have a few transits, the coupons all show Os and no Xs. We'll see if that mollifies the QF ticketing desk. I'll report back with details.

Now I'm off to see Sydney by night. :)

...Now I'm off to see Sydney by night. :)
Hit the right spots and then you will not care what happens tomorrow! :)

Greetings from the cavernous depths of the Qantas club at the domestic terminal! After a fairly short night (or long one, depending on whether one counts hours sleeping or waking :D ), I set off early to the airport for my flight to ASP.

In the end, it was a bit of an anti-climax. I checked in at the QF Sapphire/Emerald business counter, and the check-in agent never so much as batted an eyelid. He just lifted the coupon, changed 18 Dec to 16 Dec with a pen, and that was that.

Phew.

So far, so good... we'll see how they handle the return flight in ASP and the connection to AKL.

Thanks again to everybody who responded. Better safe than sorry with these kinds of things, especially if there's only one flight a day to your destination.

In the end, it was a bit of an anti-climax. I checked in at the QF Sapphire/Emerald business counter, and the check-in agent never so much as batted an eyelid. He just lifted the coupon, changed 18 Dec to 16 Dec with a pen, and that was that.


Nice going; you were lucky there. I would have expected them to want it validated ( one of the drawbacks of paper tickets and QF). Have fun in Alice Springs.

Dave

Nice going; you were lucky there. I would have expected them to want it validated ( one of the drawbacks of paper tickets and QF). Have fun in Alice Springs.


Considering that I still have six more coupons to fly on QF, I'll be stuck with a vestigial worry whenever I'm checking in. First test will be in ASP in a few days' time, but I am somewhat more hopeful this morning than last night that I can avoid a reissue. I suspect one really would not want to do a DONE4 reissue in ASP.

Considering that I still have six more coupons to fly on QF, I'll be stuck with a vestigial worry whenever I'm checking in. First test will be in ASP in a few days' time, but I am somewhat more hopeful this morning than last night that I can avoid a reissue. I suspect one really would not want to do a DONE4 reissue in ASP.

Which sector has been changed? have you flown the changed sector yet?

I still suspect that it isn't a reissue that they wanted, but a revalidation. Bon chance

Dave

Which sector has been changed? have you flown the changed sector yet?

I still suspect that it isn't a reissue that they wanted, but a revalidation. Bon chance


I've changed all of my SWP sectors, so the first SYD-ASP had already been affected. I'm now in the QF F lounge in SYD doing ASP-SYD-AKL, which is where I changed a SYD stopover to a transit. This was the original bone of contention when I spoke to QF about changing my flights. I had no problems whatsoever checking in at ASP this morning, and have been checked through to AKL as a matter of fact. Three down, three to go...

I've changed all of my SWP sectors, so the first SYD-ASP had already been affected. I'm now in the QF F lounge in SYD doing ASP-SYD-AKL, which is where I changed a SYD stopover to a transit. This was the original bone of contention when I spoke to QF about changing my flights. I had no problems whatsoever checking in at ASP this morning, and have been checked through to AKL as a matter of fact. Three down, three to go...

Excellent. Handy tip for next time. If ever making changes, use AA and not QF; QF are so keen to snatch service fees it''s unfunny

Dave

Don't worry. I am doing this frequently. Buy the tickets with the stops build in and then just connect when my planes are changing.
Disadvantage: more taxes when buying the ticket. Advantage: no need to change and no change fee.
The other way around causes problems: Have a connection (X) in the ticket and then stop. Cathay and LAN is good catching this. AA never does....

Excellent. Handy tip for next time. If ever making changes, use AA and not QF; QF are so keen to snatch service fees it''s unfunny


I had the ticket reissued by BA (it was on BA stock originally as well), but the disputed changes were made with QF. But next time I'll try calling BA or AA to make the changes as you suggest.

Don't worry. I am doing this frequently. Buy the tickets with the stops build in and then just connect when my planes are changing.
Disadvantage: more taxes when buying the ticket. Advantage: no need to change and no change fee.
The other way around causes problems: Have a connection (X) in the ticket and then stop. Cathay and LAN is good catching this. AA never does....

This is something I had not even considered when buying my RTW, but it makes eminent sense. The thought had crossed my mind to buy an all-transit ticket, but the chances of running into problems when you start changing those to stopovers would be substantial.

I have now flown five of my six SWP segments on the DONE4. All of these had had their times and dates changed when I called QF; that was the call that set off my initial question in this thread. I had no problem whatsoever checking in for any of these flights. The check-in agent in each case just took the coupon, and changed the flight number and date with a pen.

So far, so good. I am now in Western Australia, trying to figure out how to continue my DONE4. The problem is that when I reissued the ticket with BA in AMS, I changed my SYD-AKL-ADL-PER flights to SYD-AKL-MEL-PER, and my remaining coupon in PER-SYD. This, of course, is not allowed under xONEx rules. I still need to get back to SYD in order to fly out of SWP, but I am very likely to need a reissue (for all sorts of reasons).

I'm sure I can fly the PER-SYD segment as I have the coupon in hand, but what happens when I try to reissue the ticket? If I reissue before flying PER-SYD, I suspect it'll get flagged and I'll need to change the routing. So my options are:

1) Fly PER-SYD, then reissue, having flown an illegal itinerary. Will this cause problems?

2) Reissue before PER-SYD, and do PER-ADL or something like that instead, and buy a separate ADL-SYD ticket. D availability for next week on PER-SYD is quickly eroding to zero though.

Any thoughts? Tips on how to reissue an (almost spent) DONE4 with QF in either PER or SYD?

... when I reissued the ticket with BA in AMS, I changed my SYD-AKL-ADL-PER flights to SYD-AKL-MEL-PER, and my remaining coupon in PER-SYD. This, of course, is not allowed under xONEx rules. ...Ugh, so BA in AMS permitted this change making your routing illegal?

It seems you are intending to further change you route after SWP departing from SYD.

Assuming you have already booked your flight to SYD, If I were in your shoes I would simply fly to SYD and work out any reissue then.

If you are worried about the tiny risk that you won't be able to reissue having done, then indeed reissue in PER and go to ADL (perhaps to CBR would be better, there's D availability on most days next week).

Yup, and I didn't realize it at the time. I changed my original SYD-AKL-ADL-PER to SYD-AKL-MEL-PER without changing the later PER-SYD flight. At that point it didn't even occur to me that this was an illegal routing; it's only now that I remember the Australian transcon restrictions.

I indeed need to change my routing out of SWP to Asia. i'm currently booked on SYD-BOM-HKG-BKK to end my DONE4, but that won't work for me now.

... At that point it didn't even occur to me that this was an illegal routing; it's only now that I remember the Australian transcon restrictions.....It depends on the date of original issue of your OWE whether it is an illegal routing. MEL-PER was allowed under the OWE rules until a certain date, so if your OWE was issued prior to that date, it is still allowed (this is why the airlines have to keep all the old fare rules in the system, your ticket is subject to the rules when issued and not to any later changes). I don't remember when MEL-PER was added to the transcon list, but it was a year or so ago; BA tend to be a stickler for the rules, so chances are it is allowed for your issue date. In view of that, fly PER-SYD and it shouldn't be a concern.

... I don't remember when MEL-PER was added to the transcon list, but it was a year or so ago; ...August 15, 2005: Importance of Ticketing (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4491550&postcount=16).

My ticket was issued April 18th, 2006, so it fell under the new rules with the transcon restriction.

I would suggest flying to SYD ( so that you don't have issues with the invalid sector) and then getting AA to reissue it. If you get BA or QF to do the reissue, you will get hit for (a) the USD125 ticket fee plus (b) a AUD75 service fee plus (c) fuel fines for any additional sectors.

Go to AA and you can avoid B and C

Dave

Never thought of using AA while in Oz, but they do appear to have a ticketing office in Sydney. I guess I'll try to get the AA RTW desk to set up a ticket mask to make the reissue easier.

If that fails, there's always BA or QF.

Never thought of using AA while in Oz, but they do appear to have a ticketing office in Sydney. I guess I'll try to get the AA RTW desk to set up a ticket mask to make the reissue easier.

If that fails, there's always BA or QF.

They do indeed have an office in Mascot; get the ATW desk to make the booking and then get the ticket to the AA office; not quite as nice as it was when AA had a travel centre in N Sydney, but still does the trick

Dave

Briefly OT, What services are available from AA at Mascot? Can direct bookings, tickets and sales be arranged, given the problems using AA.com with an Australian credit card?

Briefly OT, What services are available from AA at Mascot? Can direct bookings, tickets and sales be arranged, given the problems using AA.com with an Australian credit card?

AA at Mascot is just a back office service. For making normal bookings to pay with an Australian credit card you can phone 1800 673 486 and speak to reservations and make a booking and pay for it. Or if it is an AA only reservation, can hold online and just call them up and pay for it

The telephone sales is located in India but the Sydney office handles activities such as reissues or issuing of paper tickets once purchased

Dave

In the end, I went with a QF reissue instead of AA, as the AA ATW desk couldn't see my ticket, and it was just much more convenient to pop down to a QF office, despite the higher charges.

I did fly the "illegal" second Oz transcon PER-SYD, and then did the reissue. This caused no problems whatsoever. The reissue itself was a breeze, partly because there were only three coupons left, and partly because the nice lady I dealt with at the QF Bridge Street office knew what she was doing. She said they do a lot of RTW tickets there; she'd done three just the previous day.

And just to return to my question that spawned this thread: every time I made a change to a time or date, QF phone reservations said that I'd have to get the ticket revalidated (and sometimes reissued), but I never did. I just went to the check-in desk, and was checked in without a hitch.

Thanks again everyone. :)

And just to return to my question that spawned this thread: every time I made a change to a time or date, QF phone reservations said that I'd have to get the ticket revalidated (and sometimes reissued), but I never did. I just went to the check-in desk, and was checked in without a hitch.



I had to do some revalidations with QF today and yesterday; all that happens is that the ticket agent checks the ticket and revalidates; takes all of about 2 minutes and nothing to worry about doing anyway ; the domestic ticket desk and Qantas Pub were not even attempting to extract a service fee.


Dave