KLM Flying Dutchman - Another POLL : What will an award/upgrade ticket cost ?

My guess from Europe R/T (hope they will keep oneway)

Destination Eco/Business/Upgrade

USA : 70.000 / 100.000 / 30.000
Asia : 80.000 / 120.000 / 40.000
Africa : 60.000 / 90.000 / 25.000
Australia : 110.000 / 150.000 /60.000

EXACTLY like NW

US-Europe
50K Coach
80K Business

beaubo, hope you are right, but don't think so..

today:
NW Europe-Asia / 60.000 /100.000
NW Europe-Australia / 80.000 / 120.000

seems to good to be true depending on conversion rate of course ....

Remember that the NW seats availability requires a Sat. night stay and is severely limited by capacity control. As a result, frequently members end up shelling out 200% of the listed requirements for the Rulebuster seats.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tractor Boy:
[B]Remember that the NW seats availability requires a Sat. night stay and is severely limited by capacity control.

Probably why KLM don't get a look in.

I don`t care so much about the actual cost of the award, if the only keep the current system.

If kurz is right with his describtion upon the fare buckets KLM uses for BW, SW and Royal Wings, you will have a guaranteed seat on KLM in any case,if you are a RW and book some weeks in advance...
D class inventory for coach and C class inventory for WBC is normally always available.... !

Beside that I never suffed from capacity controls on NW...
OK,it is tough to upgrade on the DC 10 with only 26 WBC seats especially out of LGW and FRA. On the other hand you can book KLM metal and have guaranteed space....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tractor Boy:
Remember that the NW seats availability requires a Sat. night stay and is severely limited by capacity control. As a result, frequently members end up shelling out 200% of the listed requirements for the Rulebuster seats.</font>

Do you mean it could be double up ?
Europe -Asia 120.000 /200.000
Europe-Australia 160.000 /240.000

That will be the most expensive program in europe, so I do not hope that (unless conversion is 1:4 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
OK,it is tough to upgrade on the DC 10 with only 26 WBC seats especially out of LGW and FRA. On the other hand you can book KLM metal and have guaranteed space....

[/B]</font>

What I have been unable to find, is a same price ticket to Minneapolis from either LGW using NW, or via AMS, in which case I would go KLM and get a nearly garanteed upgrade , unlike NW.

My guess:

rt eco/biz/upgr
cent. Europe-US/CA eastcoast:
50.000/80.000/40.000

cent. Europe-US/CA westcoast:
60.000/100.000/50.000

And I would guess a 200% rulebuster award and hope that Plat's won't need it...


No idea for the other regions...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
And I would guess a 200% rulebuster award and hope that Plat's won't need it...</font>

I'm not totally familiar with the NW program but I believe that even Plat's have to pay 200% to get no cap control award seats. I hope FD doesn't follow this path.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
[B]My guess:
rt eco/biz/upgr
cent. Europe-US/CA eastcoast:
50.000/80.000/40.000

cent. Europe-US/CA westcoast:
60.000/100.000/50.000
B]</font>

Interesting, if they do this will they then be the first european airline, to split USA in two zones or does other airlines do that ??

KLM already has US in several different zones. Its cheaper in points to fly to New York then to San Fransisco.

First miles-based european airline http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ???

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The-Longhauler:
My guess from Europe R/T (hope they will keep oneway)Destination Eco/Business/Upgrade

USA : 70.000 / 100.000 / 30.000
Asia : 80.000 / 120.000 / 40.000
Africa : 60.000 / 90.000 / 25.000
Australia : 110.000 / 150.000 /60.000

</font>

So this is the correct miles:
North America: 50,000/80,000/20,000;
Far East: 100,000/150,000/40,000;
Australia - New Zealand: 120,000/180,000/--

A little more than more than NW,
I think asia is far to expensive AMS-LAX 50.000 miles, same distance AMS-SIN 100.000...

NW Europe-Asia / 60.000 /100.000
NW Europe-Australia / 80.000 / 120.000


Good guesing regarding the US award ,beaubo http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

While not disagreeing with you on the cost of Asia, the direct mileage comparison with LAX is misleading. From Europe, Asia is generally a far more expensive destination than west coast USA (it is not unusual to find Europe-LAX economy returns for 300 to 400 Euros. You are very lucky if you can find similar fares to Asia)
I think that in most European FFPs, Asia is way more expensive than USA.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickB:
While not disagreeing with you on the cost of Asia....., I think that in most European FFPs, Asia is way more expensive than USA.</font>

Yes, more expensive is fine, but not double 50.000 US /100.000 ASIA

SAS Eurobonus is 70.000 US / 80.000 ASIA.....
Lufthansa is 70.000 US / 90.000 ASIA

As posted elsewhere, the "new" awards appear pretty generous in repect to points deducted than the old ones. HALF as *expensive* for me anyway.

Let me give ONE example of the "new Deal" works in practice:

Right NOW for me to fly from OZ to DUS in Biz class will cost 200,000 "current" miles. (Not good *VALUE* at all)

There is no SYD-Europe award. So I need to do SYD-KUL, in "M" is 80,000 RT. To go KUL-AMS is "O" or 110,000 so there is 190,000 and we still need another award to fly into DUS costing 10,000 - on eco only. (Small plane I guess?) Does not seem good value for 200,000 miles?

Under the NEW POINTS DEAL - it is 180,000 miles round trip. Not only to DUS, but to and the rest of Europe as well (Europe = Austria / Azerbaijan, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Great Britain, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Scotland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and Ukraine)

So, 180,000 "new" miles will after being multipled by 1.83 from "old" miles cost me less than 100,000 "old" miles. Short answer ... I can under "new deal" get to Europe in biz from SYD for less than HALF what it now costs.

Footnote .... does anyone know if KLM awards allow open-jawing? i.e. Can I fly SYD-Moscow and Cyprus-SYD on a Australia-Europe award? And do they allow 1 or 2 stopovers on the round trip.

If so I imagine I can take an extra award Cyprus-Moscow one-way (via AMS) to fill in the *gap* which seems to be 50% of either 25K or 45K in coach or biz - excellent value if it is. Can anyone confirm that this looks "doable"? Might book this for Xmas if it is. And yes, I do know there are seldom heatwaves in Moscow in December. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



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~ Glen ~ Calling all United 1K Members - please join .. www.1Kflyers.com (http://www.1Kflyers.com)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
Footnote .... does anyone know if KLM awards allow open-jawing? i.e. Can I fly SYD-Moscow and Cyprus-SYD on a Australia-Europe award?</font>

Assuming the posts we have seen about one-way awards being available for half the round-trip mileage, you can always construct your own "open jaw" from two one-way awards.

Footnote .... does anyone know if KLM awards allow open-jawing? i.e. Can I fly SYD-Moscow and Cyprus-SYD on a Australia-Europe award? And do they allow 1 or 2 stopovers on the round trip.

If so I imagine I can take an extra award Cyprus-Moscow one-way (via AMS) to fill in the *gap* which seems to be 50% of either 25K or 45K in coach or biz - excellent value if it is. Can anyone confirm that this looks "doable"? Might book this for Xmas if it is. And yes, I do know there are seldom heatwaves in Moscow in December. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[/B][/QUOTE]


By far the most interesting question out there at the moment, Glen !!

Until now you had to book each seperate segment, so nobody has any experience...

I would love to see unlimited stopovers and open jaws, but without any information it is tough to speculate...

And there are too many rumours and speculations around at the moment...

BTW, could not agree more on the new award structure.By far the most competitive in Europe.Awards to the US are really cheap, not to mention 20000 miles for an upgrade...

Do you already make plans for the FT DUS meeting next year or is there any reason to visit our beautiful Lower Rhine area ??

Greetings

Patrick

Thank you Hagbard Viking and Threy - good points. So if one books a ONE WAY award on KLM ..... SYD-MOSCOW has there been in the past a stopover permitted?? It is literally about 30 hours+ of flying and airports, so I do hope so. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Threy:

Do you already make plans for the FT DUS meeting next year or is there any reason to visit our beautiful Lower Rhine area ??

Greetings

Patrick</font>

Threy, I really am going to try and Make Dusseldorf Doo Three in July 2003. And yes, will fly KLM there I think. Have attended the first 2 - in fact my innocent question about DUS started the whole ball rolling back in 2000:

www.flyertalk.com/pasttalk/ftpasttalk_forum/Forum50/HTML/002374-2.html (http://www.flyertalk.com/pasttalk/ftpasttalk_forum/Forum50/HTML/002374-2.html)

When Rudi, I, Kokonutz, Bernie and Mizu decided to meet there, and Dusseldorf #1 grew from that. Wonderful weekends, and Bernie is a superb host. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Are you planning on coming? Anyone else from the KLM boards? I know Rudi has booked his tickets already!

------------------
~ Glen ~ Calling all United 1K Members - please join .. www.1Kflyers.com (http://www.1Kflyers.com)


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 09-29-2002).]

All this discussion of awards assumes that there will be good availability under the new system. If KLM are moving to a NW model then this may be a problem. RWs are used to having seats made available for them at no extra cost even if all the FD seats are gone. For Worldperks members these "no capacity control" seats cost 200% of listed awards.

[This message has been edited by Tractor Boy (edited 09-29-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
Thank you Hagbard Viking and Threy - good points. So if one books a ONE WAY award on KLM ..... SYD-MOSCOW has there been in the past a stopover permitted?? It is literally about 30 hours+ of flying and airports, so I do hope so. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
</font>

No-one has any experience of this either. In the present system, each segment is booked separately on award tickets, thus stopovers are unlimited (but each segment, of course, adds to the total mileage you pay).