Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED: Dragonair now on board with The Marco Polo Club

Dragonair now on board with The Marco Polo Club
Since Dragonair became a wholly owned subsidiary of Cathay Pacific on 28 September 2006, we have already announced plans to improve connection times between our two airlines at Hong Kong International Airport and to relaunch Dragonair's service to Phuket, Thailand.
Now we are delighted to announce the latest customer benefit to come from the alignment of the two airlines - the integration of our loyalty programmes.

From 1 January 2007, you will enjoy Marco Polo Club privileges and convenience when flying Dragonair, just like you do with Cathay Pacific (depending on your tier and your class of travel). These include:

Earning Club miles and sectors on eligible fare classes
Earning Asia Miles on eligible fare classes (including 100% accrual in Economy fare classes Y/B/H/K/M/L/V)
Your usual Marco Polo Club privileges such as 24 hours worldwide toll-free Club service line, priority check-in and boarding
Your tier benefits like lounge access, extra baggage and carry-on allowances, priority baggage handling, advance seat reservation and priority waitlisting
Guaranteed seat confirmation (for Economy fare classes Y/ B/H/K/M/L/V on both airlines and Business fare classes J/C on Cathay Pacific only)
Dragonair's extensive coverage of China, together with Cathay Pacific's network and membership of the oneworld alliance, makes The Marco Polo Club Asia's most powerful airline loyalty club and the clear choice for serious world travellers.

We are confident these latest developments will result in greater comfort, choice and convenience whenever you fly.

But, it doesn't say how The Elite members will be integrated into MPC.

one link from that message...with the new benefits chart:
http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/mpo/benefits_summary_en.pdf

nothing much too new/interesting...the only points to note are:
they are keeping the same qualification requirements in terms of Club miles/sectors
they are keeping the KA lounge in HK - in fact, it says in the chart that you get access to CX F/J lounges only when traveling with CX, and KA lounge only when traveling with KA...no "cross" lounge benefits, e.g. cannot go to the Wing/Pier if you are flying KA...but an additional benefit now for Diamond's is that they can access KA lounge as well when flying any airline (not available to KA Platinum before even - not necessarily nicer, but just another option e.g. if your flight departs from gates 16-19)
otherwise, since this is an announcement to existing MPO members, it naturally didn't talk about transition of KA Elite members yet...wait for the announcement from KA Elite...

I know that the club miles/sectors are starting counting next year, but what about all the sectors/miles I've made for upgrade of tier level for KA? Are they all wasted? This sucks somehow... Like my membership year with KA is ending March 2007 and the one with CX ending June 2007. Wouldn't it be "fair" to count at least the ones of KA sectors/miles from July 2006-December 2006 as club miles/sectors for (re)qualification for Marco Polo?

I do hope they cancel all the KA members and ask them to rejoin the MPO again (maybe just waive the membership fees). Really the actuall effort and $$ value contributed to being a MPO is much higher compare to KA Elite.

I also just find out they have reduced the Economy Class guaranteed benefit to members now.

They now restrict it to YBHKMLV class only.

I clearly remember they used to permit S and N class as well (the super cheap tickets!)

I also just find out they have reduced the Economy Class guaranteed benefit to members now.

They now restrict it to YBHKMLV class only.

I clearly remember they used to permit S and N class as well (the super cheap tickets!)

I don't think there's any change here ? I think the seat guarantee has always been applicable to the mileage-earning subclasses only ?

I do hope they cancel all the KA members and ask them to rejoin the MPO again (maybe just waive the membership fees). Really the actuall effort and $$ value contributed to being a MPO is much higher compare to KA Elite.

I also don't quite agree here...yes, if you're talking about only the J/F long-haul flyers, it costs a lot to become Gold/Diamond MPO...but it's just similar case for J/F flyers for KA. Say me as an example, I fly HKG-PVG-HKG weekly in J for ~25 weeks in order to get KA Platinum...each week is HKD 5500 x 25 = HKD 130,000+...frankly I think many CX Gold or even Diamond flyers are contributing much less than this. What I spent yearly on oneworld, around HKD 150,000, also would have qualified me for Diamond (although I have been putting them on AAdvantage because of the bonus etc)...

If you're talking about mostly the Y flyers, then it's even more obvious...yes each KA flight is cheap because it's short-haul...but until a few months ago, you have to buy full Y in order to earn 1 full sector + 100% miles (this changed only after CX bought KA)...and if you look at this page... http://www.dragonair.com/icms/servlet/template?series=39&article=649 ...it takes roughly HKD 2000-3000 to earn each sector...this is just the same as many of the CX discount Y fares out there, HKD 2000-3000 per sector...and in CX it's even worse, because many of these cheap HKD 2000-3000 sectors are long haul...so e.g. HKD 2000-3000 will get you say up to 7000 miles or so...in KA, you spend HKD 2000-3000 and get only say 1000 miles at most...I don't really quite see how it's easier/cheaper to qualify for KA status. Many of my friends/colleagues actually have been (re-)qualifying on their CX Gold/Diamond by doing e.g. cheap HKD-SYD-HKG runs for HKD 4000 each...HKD 4000 gets you 2 Club sectors + 9000 Club miles...vs. with HKG-PVG-HKG, you can 2 Club sectors and yet only 1400 Club miles...

Yes, each KA ticket is relatively cheaper compared to CX...but because KA only flies short-haul...you need to buy a lot of these cheap/short-haul tickets in order to get the status too...

thus for overall revenue per sector or per mile, I actually think KA should be very close to CX, if not higher...

I think that the YBHKMLV only for guaranteed seats is a change. But actually I'm not unhappy about it. I would always buy mileage (status-)earning fares for myself anyway. The problem has been on business (expensed) travel when the boss has occasionally tried to force me onto the super-cheap fares using my Diamond privilege. Now it will be easier to avoid travelling on non-mileage earning fares for business.

The information has now been removed from the CX website - i wonder why??

Still there for me... http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/mpo/benefits_summary_en.pdf

yes, the pdf is still here...but the original announcement that referred to this pdf file (and which ernestnywang posted above), really seems to be gone...

But the big quetion is...

will Plt = DM?

What about Gold + SL?

But the big quetion is...

will Plt = DM?

What about Gold + SL?

I also agree the most fair way to do this is to consider the status of both KA and CX...a pure KA Plat without any CX / oneworld status shouldn't be made Diamond, but maybe just Gold...but I'm just not sure how feasible/tedious it is for CX to process this kind of case by case or to set up these rules ?

one way to do this might be to look at the Asia Miles account of the KA members to see all the CX/oneworld/KA activities in the past year...but not everyone put their KA flights into Asia Miles (e.g. I put into JAL) and oneworld flights in CX/MPO/AM...

(How did other arilines do it for other mergers, e.g. AF + KL? how did they account for people who had statuses in both before? For that case I think they just made KL Plat to be AF Plat etc, because it's very comparable...but then how did they handle cases like someone having both KL Gold and AF Gold? you just gave them your account numbers for both and they checked/processed it accordingly?)

How did other arilines do it for other mergers, e.g. AF + KL? how did they account for people who had statuses in both before? For that case I think they just made KL Plat to be AF Plat etc, because it's very comparable...but then how did they handle cases like someone having both KL Gold and AF Gold? you just gave them your account numbers for both and they checked/processed it accordingly?)

I can give an example regarding the LX/LH merge. All members of LX which had a Silver status became March 1st this year *S/LH Frequent Flyer and all with Gold status became *G/LH Senator. All miles and sectors of first three months were NOT counting as EQM but for HON Status. But since the status last all for 2 years, the new LH members could either requalify within 9 months or start next year where they will have 12 months time to requalify.

And if someone had status with both programmes, the higher status counted for the new combined FFP.

Ok, here is something I've been thinking today.
MPC only give club miles/sectors for OW flight, so they are bending their current rules little for KA... Maybe soon or later KA will be next to go???

Ok, here is something I've been thinking today.
MPC only give club miles/sectors for OW flight, so they are bending their current rules little for KA... Maybe soon or later KA will be next to go???
Actually you are wrong. CX does give Club miles/sectors on CX codeshare services as well (MH/SU etc..)

This is consistent with other airlines eg. QF!

Actually you are wrong. CX does give Club miles/sectors on CX codeshare services as well (MH/SU etc..)


This goes without saying. For mileage earning purposes codeshares are CX flights

Actually you are wrong. CX does give Club miles/sectors on CX codeshare services as well (MH/SU etc..)

This is consistent with other airlines eg. QF!

Hmm, true, Death :-: ....

ok...here's the official words from KA...still need to wait a bit for the details.

"Your benefits with The Elite loyalty programme will continue until 31 December 2006. By then you will have been offered a complimentary membership to The Marco Polo Club, depending on your recent travel activities and your existing membership status with The Elite. Details will be sent to you by mail in this month.

We look forward to welcoming you on board soon as a Marco Polo Club member."

Interestingly, KA earns 100% Club Miles / Sectors in YBHKMLV, but only Y earns 100% Asiamiles. BHKMLV continue to earn only 50% Asiamiles on KA. So, for example, you will get more Asiamiles taking the CX codeshare on the KA flights to China than you will if reserved as KA.

This has the potential to be very messy with tickets that are valid on both CX and KA...

Interestingly, KA earns 100% Club Miles / Sectors in YBHKMLV, but only Y earns 100% Asiamiles. BHKMLV continue to earn only 50% Asiamiles on KA. So, for example, you will get more Asiamiles taking the CX codeshare on the KA flights to China than you will if reserved as KA.

This has the potential to be very messy with tickets that are valid on both CX and KA...

I expect this will be amended at a later stage with all KA flights earning the same amount of miles as CX ones.

Well I hope that it's by increasing the miles on KA, not decreasing those on CX, but I fear (given how most other schemes work) that it may be the latter...

Finally received this email from The Elite:

********************************

As a current member of The Elite, you are entitled to a complimentary membership of The Marco Polo Club if your travel with Dragonair during the 12 months to 30 November 2006 has reached the following levels:


Gold Membership More than 60,000 Elite miles or 50 Elite sectors

Silver Membership More than 30,000 Elite miles or 25 Elite sectors

Green Membership 4 Elite sectors or more

Further details of the arrangement will be sent to you by mail in the next few days.

Please note that your benefits with The Elite loyalty programme will continue until 31 December 2006.

We look forward to welcoming you on board soon as a Marco Polo Club member.

This offer is worthless to me. I already am SL and flew less than 60k during the last 12 mts. Why is my Plat. membership due to expire at the end of 2008 now suddenly worthless? I think they should honor the 3 yr validity for currently plats. We supposedly had 3 yrs to requality... not 12 mts.

I suppose it is easier for Cathay to just cancel the Elite program - just like what happened with Passages.


From the general conditions they are clearly within their right to just end the program. It will be interesting if they make a provision for Elite members who are also MPO members, by offering them a higher status.

Interestingly - the required sectors for invitation to gold/silver is higher than the MPO requirements.

Quote:

General Conditions
The Elite is managed and operated by Dragonair.

Dragonair reserves the right to modify The Elite structure, benefits or other features, including these terms and conditions and may terminate The Elite at any time upon reasonable notice, where possible, and will not be liable for any loss or damage resulting therefrom. Use of the number/card and associated benefits is deemed as acceptance of any amendment.

Earning Credits in The Elite
Travel on industry/agency discount, award travel, group and other special discount tickets as specified by Dragonair from time to time, do not qualify for Elite mile/sector credits.

Discounted Economy Class tickets (booking classes B/H/K/L/V/M^) are eligible for Elite miles at 100% of the actual mileage flown or 1 Elite sector credits. Changes may be published from time to time and available from Dragonair.

Credits can only be awarded to the Member, not to any third party.

^ For The Elite programme only

Termination of Membership
Members may terminate their membership at any time. This should be done in writing and accompanied by the membership card. Upon termination any outstanding Elite mile/sector credits will be cancelled.

Dragonair reserves the right with or without notice to terminate an individual's Elite membership or revoke a Member's right to use any Elite services or facilities. Upon termination, all Elite mile/sector credits will be cancelled.

This offer is worthless to me. I already am SL and flew less than 60k during the last 12 mts. Why is my Plat. membership due to expire at the end of 2008 now suddenly worthless? I think they should honor the 3 yr validity for currently plats. We supposedly had 3 yrs to requality... not 12 mts.

My KA Plat membership is due to expire in Dec 2008 too I think...not too happy about the sudden loss of the 3-year membership. I know of people who specifically did some mileage runs towards the end of their Gold memberships so as to reach 60 sectors / 60k miles in order to get to Plat, because they thought that it would then be valid for 3 years...I don't think many of the Plats would be too happy about it.

But, I personally haven't received the email with the detailed tier-matching info from KA yet...but I'm just thinking, would there be different versions of this for members of different Elite tiers ? because, in the first email, it says..."depending on your recent travel activities and your existing membership status with The Elite"...but this last email tonykl posted, doesn't really take into account "membership status with The Elite".

For example, B-HQC who is a Plat, thinking he has 3 years to requalify, didn't fly enough in the past 12 months, which is only the first 12 months of his membership...it's hard to imagine they would downgrade a KA Plat in this case to just Silver or even Green ? or maybe they would just give Gold to all KA Plat ?

As a current member of The Elite, you are entitled to a complimentary membership of The Marco Polo Club if your travel with Dragonair during the 12 months to 30 November 2006 has reached the following levels:

...

Please note that your benefits with The Elite loyalty programme will continue until 31 December 2006.

another question is...while the benefits of The Elite last till Dec 31, and benefits of MPO starts Jan 1...there's no gap in this...

but, in terms of KA flights being taken in Dec, they seem to be completely useless, in terms of KA/CX status, right ? (yes, of course, they still earn Asia Miles / JAL miles) they are not considered in this KA-CX tier matching and KA flights won't start counting towards CX status until Jan 1, 2007...

I think for those Elite KA members they have to understand that MPO is like 10 times more useful that what KA gave them.

The KA memnership was for KA only.

You don't get:

1) Oneworld benefits
2) A much wider CX lounge usage network
3) Proper F Class
4) Much nicer lounges
5) Many more unpublished perks.

Therefore even if CX is giving you 1 year or downgrade you to a lower tier, it is justifiable.

well...I think these are "good" benefits, no doubt, that the CX membership gives...but whether it's "useful" or not, really quite depends...many people might say it's a lot of "not useful" although "good" benefits...

because, many of the KA members, esp those Plat/Gold based in HKG...many of them actually have maybe 30+ trips to mainland China each year on KA, but only very limited travel on CX otherwise...many of them actually don't have international business travel at all, and maybe 1-2 trips on leisure each year which could be on CX...for them, whether they're happy to give up their original 3 years of 90 trips of benefits on KA to earn the 12 months of additional benefits on 2 CX trips, really quite doubtful...and frankly I think this could represent a big part of the KA Plat/Gold population too (just my guess though, no numbers to support)...

but, yes, I understand, with such a merger you just cannot please everyone...

Personally, I'd like to see the sectors and miles I have earned this year in The Elite be merged with sectors/miles I have earned in MPC. That would give earning MPC higher status a boost!

Personally, I'd like to see the sectors and miles I have earned this year in The Elite be merged with sectors/miles I have earned in MPC. That would give earning MPC higher status a boost!

me too! but this is rather unlikely to happen...

Nobody has addressed the issue of *already* having a Marco Polo account (which I paid for) and a bunch of sectors/miles on KA (which I paid for). I don't want another MP account. I want my KA credits rolled over into my existing MP account.

How would they know that I have the account to roll it over? Or am I just screwed?

Nobody has addressed the issue of *already* having a Marco Polo account (which I paid for) and a bunch of sectors/miles on KA (which I paid for). I don't want another MP account. I want my KA credits rolled over into my existing MP account.

How would they know that I have the account to roll it over? Or am I just screwed?
When you signed up for MP and KA, there was no mention at that stage that your points/miles would ever be merged or that CX would buy KA. So CX owes you nothing.

When you signed up for MP and KA, there was no mention at that stage that your points/miles would ever be merged or that CX would buy KA. So CX owes you nothing.

Maybe the poster was just "hopeful" (as am I) that MPC would recognize the sectors and miles earned in The Elite. MPC doesn't have to do this, of course, but neither did SPG when Starwood bought Le Meridien and merged the Moments program together. Yet, SPG did make a nice gesture by recognizing the stays and points earned in Moments.

I'm pretty sure they will combine the accounts, since they already know who's who if you credit your KA mileage to Asiamiles.

Whether the miles/credits will be honored is another matter.

When you signed up for MP and KA, there was no mention at that stage that your points/miles would ever be merged or that CX would buy KA. So CX owes you nothing.

That's fantastic, thanks. I hope the CX marketing group has a smarter attitude. This isn't about owing -- it's about customer loyalty.

My current opinion of KA is positive.
My current opinion of CX is neutral.

Best to get a frequent flier like me to move to "positive."