Southwest Rapid Rewards - Why I hate Southwest

My husband has been flying Southwest quite a bit, from ELP to SJC to visit me and my son where we are this year. Each time, his connection, the hourlong flight from LAX to SJC, has been delayed for an hour--and these delays are present in the system hours and hours in advance. For example, he's flying in tonight, it's 4:30 Pacific time, and there's already an hour delay on his hourlong flight, from 8:30 to 9:30 departure. Who knows what they delay will be up to by the time it takes off!!!

I called to complain about their sorry on-time performance and was told that "It's a different problem each time--sometimes it's mechanical, sometimes it's weather . . ." But I'm not buying it. Someone at WN needs to think about rerouting planes to get back to the ontime, predictable Southwest that we once knew, :mad: or we're going to switch carriers.

I am sorry about your situation. My flights are all east coast and I have been fairly lucky.

I do know because of their maximum jet utilization (which helps keep prices down) any problems early in the day can have a large domino effect.

Keep in mind the good stuff:

1) no change fees
2) call and talk to a person-after a 5 second message
3) many flights to same locations daily for great flexibility

I am sure there are others...

My husband has been flying Southwest quite a bit, from ELP to SJC to visit me and my son where we are this year. Each time, his connection, the hourlong flight from LAX to SJC, has been delayed for an hour--and these delays are present in the system hours and hours in advance. For example, he's flying in tonight, it's 4:30 Pacific time, and there's already an hour delay on his hourlong flight, from 8:30 to 9:30 departure. Who knows what they delay will be up to by the time it takes off!!!

I called to complain about their sorry on-time performance and was told that "It's a different problem each time--sometimes it's mechanical, sometimes it's weather . . ." But I'm not buying it. Someone at WN needs to think about rerouting planes to get back to the ontime, predictable Southwest that we once knew, :mad: or we're going to switch carriers.

Don't fly Southwest after noon on the West Coast. Your flight WILL be late. While it's true that every time there's a different reason, the underlying problem is that they schedule for "perfect conditions" so one hiccup in the morning means the schedule for the rest of the day is delayed. Other airlines schedule more buffer time between flights to allow catch-up time, but I've noticed they're all moving to the Southwest model too...

Is he going through LAX (Los Angeles) or LAS (Las Vegas)? Would it help to route through PHX (Phoenix), perhaps?

Also, while I am a big fan of Southwest and love the "no change fee," I could imagine that if I had to fly that route, I might fly Delta, for the non-stop service. You might also look at Frontier and United through Denver. All are going to get you on the change fee, and perhaps on the price as well, but he will have less time in the air. It all depends on your ability to book far enough in advance and ability to predict or know the likelyhood of needing to make changes.

Southwest's scheduling is pretty tight, which is what keeps the prices down, but also, any wrinkle in the system and delays happen.

"It's a different problem each time--sometimes it's mechanical, sometimes it's weather . . ." But I'm not buying it. Someone at WN needs to think about rerouting planes to get back to the ontime, predictable Southwest that we once knew, :mad: or we're going to switch carriers.

When Southwest's schedulers put 10 pounds in a 5-pound bag, it takes them a few months to figure it out. Because Southwest rarely changes its existing schedule, you probably have to wait another 5 months for the fix to appear. By then you will be flying the competition, as you say.

Try a different flight time. Ask the gate agents which flights cause them the biggest headaches and which tend to run on time. They will have the best information on current performance. Good luck!

Also, while I am a big fan of Southwest and love the "no change fee," I could imagine that if I had to fly that route, I might fly Delta, for the non-stop service.I think you may have misread the OP. The route in question is ELP-SJC, not ELP-SLC, which yes, Delta does serve nonstop. According to SJC's online timetable, no carrier flies to/from ELP nonstop.

Actually, Southwest has the best on-time record among major US carriers over the past year. In September, 84% of Southwest flights arrived within 15 minutes of schedule.

Actually, Southwest has the best on-time record among major US carriers over the past year. In September, 84% of Southwest flights arrived within 15 minutes of schedule.
While I have no reason to dispute that figure, I'd be willing to bet that for flights before 2pm, the on time performance may actually be 95% but for flights after 2pm, it may be closer to 75% (or less).

Expanding on the theme justageek posted above, WN gets great utilization from their aircraft, primarily from scheduling their quick turns (which now seem to be 30 minutes). There's no margin for error (delay), so as the day wears on, what started as a 10 minute delay at 11:00am may be a 30-45 minute delay four or five segments later at 6:00pm.

I fly LAX-LAS virtually every Friday, mostly on WN. Two weeks ago I happened to be flying WN1193 with Mrs-Nevada and for the first time in over 8 months, that flight was actually on-time. The "perfect conditions" came together that day. Unusual.

I normally fly BWI to ISP and back every other week. Over the last year, I would say the BWI morning flight was never late and the ISP flight back was late 10% of the time. As stated by the OP, I knew there were delays hours before the flight time.

On thing I have seen a couple of times is swapping planes to get an earlier scheduled flight out.

Bob

i fly very often and on american, united and southwest

lately i am amazed when any flight is ON TIME. most are off
my latest flights on american arrived 4 hours late outgoing and 2 hours late return. weather and mechanical. it happens.

the advice above is best. first flights are almost always on time
late flights almost always late.

southwest is so superior to the other airlines in other terms of service its worth small delays. when my AA flight was delayed 4 hours i was stuck with it. this doesnt happen on Southwest keep that in mind

My last transcon was on UA. It was scheduled 2 hours before the Southwest flight, but Southwest beat us there by 5 minutes (I heard it on UA's audio channel 9). But I didn't mind because I was flying F. :)

Oh, and that particular day most UA evening flights were taking delays of well over an hour. That's a lot more frequent with hub and spoke scheduling than with point to point.

My husband has been flying Southwest quite a bit, from ELP to SJC to visit me and my son where we are this year. Each time, his connection, the hourlong flight from LAX to SJC, has been delayed for an hour--and these delays are present in the system hours and hours in advance. For example, he's flying in tonight, it's 4:30 Pacific time, and there's already an hour delay on his hourlong flight, from 8:30 to 9:30 departure. Who knows what they delay will be up to by the time it takes off!!!

I called to complain about their sorry on-time performance and was told that "It's a different problem each time--sometimes it's mechanical, sometimes it's weather . . ." But I'm not buying it. Someone at WN needs to think about rerouting planes to get back to the ontime, predictable Southwest that we once knew, :mad: or we're going to switch carriers.

Sorry to hear about your problems, but if misery loves company (isn't that why we are on flyertalk?) the problem is not so much SW as I fly AA South Cal to SJC, and late afternoon/early evening is typically never on time, more of a clogged system out of airlines control... and they are not happy either as these delays cost them money every minute a plane sits on the ground when it should be in the air...

cheers
dittymau

Something else to consider: delays tend to crop up when a flight is arriving (e.g. bad weather) or departing (e.g. passenger problem, or something broke on the plane during the previous segment that didn't require a diversion but that must be fixed before the next segment, etc.). Since Southwest has more short-hop flights than other airlines, each aircraft has more arrivals and departures per day. Thus on Southwest there are more opportunities for a delay to be introduced. This also explains the "afternoon/evening" effect many posters are referring to, where Southwest flights tend to be particularly late in the afternoons and evenings.

To make this idea concrete, consider two planes: one does two transcons per day, and the other does eight one-hour short-hop flights per day. The second one is a lot more likely to run into a delay at some point during the day, and with Southwest's quick scheduled turns, the effect is particularly noticeable in the afternoon and evening.

with Southwest's quick scheduled turns, the effect is particularly noticeable in the afternoon and evening.

Maybe we should call this "the Southwest effect". ;)

A pretty bad article in today's NY Times about different boarding schemes (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/business/14boarding.html) does have one interesting nugget of information:

"Southwest’s scheduling department has come up with a what-if model, in which turnarounds take five minutes longer. To keep its current schedules of 2,773 daily turns for its fleet of 461 737s, the airline would need 18 additional aircraft costing a total of $972 million — not including the cost of crews and maintenance workers."

Now I understand why they schedule for the "best case" scenario, and just push flights late in the day later and later when the aggressive turn scheduling breaks down... There's no way they're losing $1 billion in revenue from customers who refuse to fly Southwest because the flighs late in the day tend to be delayed, so it makes financial sense for them to do what they're doing, even though it leads to the "Southwest effect" that nsx referred to. :D

southwest has to have the lowest cancellation rate in the industry. they run the flights, even if they are running late. everytime I look at a status screen in PIT or LAS, I see several america west flights cancelled and most of the rest of them are delayed. It's amusing to always see 100+ people in line at the america west customer assistance gate waiting to try and get reassigned for a flight home.

I will say that if it's a 3hr delay then you can plan on a 3hr delay. rarely have I ever seen a delay get increased longer and longer with southwest unless it's for ATC/weather reasons. But with a 3hr delay for equipment maintenance or a delay earlier in the day, I've also never seen them reallocate another aircraft and crew

A pretty bad article in today's NY Times about different boarding schemes (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/business/14boarding.html) does have one interesting nugget of information:

"Southwest’s scheduling department has come up with a what-if model, in which turnarounds take five minutes longer. To keep its current schedules of 2,773 daily turns for its fleet of 461 737s, the airline would need 18 additional aircraft costing a total of $972 million — not including the cost of crews and maintenance workers."

Now I understand why they schedule for the "best case" scenario, and just push flights late in the day later and later when the aggressive turn scheduling breaks down... There's no way they're losing $1 billion in revenue from customers who refuse to fly Southwest because the flighs late in the day tend to be delayed, so it makes financial sense for them to do what they're doing, even though it leads to the "Southwest effect" that nsx referred to. :D

But, of course, you must allocate that $972 million (minus any residual value) over the 20 years lifetime of the aircraft, which is about $50 million per year. That's a whole different number, but if passengers aren't voting with their feet, then why run an on-time airline (see AS's performance).

Another hilarious whiney thread.

Though I can personally share your frustration, your complaint is hardly an excuse to slam WN. Over the past year, it seems that many of my flights were delayed regardless of date, airport, or airline. From what I can see, the only common factor seems to be that the delayed flights are almost always afternoon or early evening flights, and often on Sundays. But I don't plan to change my schedule to return at the crack of dawn Sunday from a leisure trip, or in general to fly early a.m. which is rarely convenient or meets my needs.

Certainly WN does has its share of issues, but a perpetually late flight is hardly unique to WN. In fact, if you do a media search you'll find that WN flights rarely if ever make the DOT top ten list of most delayed flights.

southwest has to have the lowest cancellation rate in the industry.

Also, the operations people try to cancel the flight that will affect the minimum number of customers. That means somewhat higher cancellation rates on high-frequency routes where other flights can accommodate the displaced customers. When there are 4 more flights leaving in the next 3 hours, a cancellation is really no big deal.