PhlyingRPh
Nov 8, 06, 12:18 pm
...and about bloody time too!
I wonder if this will have a positive effect on U.S. tourism.
I wonder if this will have a positive effect on U.S. tourism.
Newsstand - Rumsfeld to resign! (per BBC news alert)
View Full Version : Rumsfeld to resign! (per BBC news alert)
brentley
Nov 8, 06, 12:21 pm
Maybe less involuntary tourism to the Middle East for younger american military personel.
About time he bailed.
About time he bailed.
stefg1007
Nov 8, 06, 12:30 pm
wouldnt doubt if this was preplanned-effective if the republicans lost control of the house and senate (which they did). The president nominated a successor almost immediately after rumsfeld resigned.
bout time....
bout time....
BearX220
Nov 8, 06, 12:33 pm
Had Rumsfeld announced his resignation last week, ironically, the Republicans would almost certainly have held the Senate.
PhlyingRPh
Nov 8, 06, 12:42 pm
Here is the story... it was just a news alert earlier - I guess the BBC were so excited they issued the alert before posting the actual story!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6130296.stm
Rumsfeld replaced after poll loss
US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is standing down, President George W Bush has announced after bruising losses for Republicans in mid-term elections.
Mr Bush said that "after a series of thoughtful conversations" he and Mr Rumsfeld has decided "the time is right for new leadership at the Pentagon".
He said he had nominated former CIA Director Robert Gates to serve as Mr Rumsfeld's replacement.
The Democrats gained control of the House of Representatives.
Mr Bush described Mr Rumsfeld as a "patriot who served his country with honour and distinction", as well as "a trusted adviser and a friend".
With popular anger over the war in Iraq a major factor during the election campaign, there had been growing calls for Mr Rumsfeld's resignation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6130296.stm
Rumsfeld replaced after poll loss
US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is standing down, President George W Bush has announced after bruising losses for Republicans in mid-term elections.
Mr Bush said that "after a series of thoughtful conversations" he and Mr Rumsfeld has decided "the time is right for new leadership at the Pentagon".
He said he had nominated former CIA Director Robert Gates to serve as Mr Rumsfeld's replacement.
The Democrats gained control of the House of Representatives.
Mr Bush described Mr Rumsfeld as a "patriot who served his country with honour and distinction", as well as "a trusted adviser and a friend".
With popular anger over the war in Iraq a major factor during the election campaign, there had been growing calls for Mr Rumsfeld's resignation.
GUWonder
Nov 13, 06, 10:05 am
A growing number of current and former government officials, Rumsfeld included, will have to be extra-vigilant when deciding their international travel plans. If their research fails them and circumstances catch them, they could find that a transit or destination country means that their travel plans are interrupted by some legal proceedings.
Former Chilean General Pinochet had a bit of that issue and ended up visiting the UK for quite a bit more time than he had originally planned for. Fortunately for Pinochet he was on the right side of the UK sufficiently so as not to end up in a courtroom on the European mainland. (I know this should be crossing a former Iranian President's mind soon too -- if not already. )
Any other suggestions here on how current and former government officials can go about their travels without such surprises?
Former Chilean General Pinochet had a bit of that issue and ended up visiting the UK for quite a bit more time than he had originally planned for. Fortunately for Pinochet he was on the right side of the UK sufficiently so as not to end up in a courtroom on the European mainland. (I know this should be crossing a former Iranian President's mind soon too -- if not already. )
Any other suggestions here on how current and former government officials can go about their travels without such surprises?
etch5895
Nov 13, 06, 10:34 am
Any other suggestions here on how current and former government officials can go about their travels without such surprises?
They could travel with Groucho Marx mustache and glasses? :D
I don't think Rumsfeld has to worry about travel in Europe, but he might not want to plan a trip to the Middle East anytime soon.
They could travel with Groucho Marx mustache and glasses? :D
I don't think Rumsfeld has to worry about travel in Europe, but he might not want to plan a trip to the Middle East anytime soon.
GUWonder
Nov 13, 06, 10:49 am
They could travel with Groucho Marx mustache and glasses? :D
I don't think Rumsfeld has to worry about travel in Europe, but he might not want to plan a trip to the Middle East anytime soon.
I like that Groucho Marx mustache & glasses thing. :D ^^
More seriously, Europe is exactly amongst the places where I'd worry most if I was Rumsfeld (or someone like him). :eek: Unlike a good number of European countries, particularly those tied under the EU umbrella, most all Middle Eastern countries are unlikely to place a former cabinet level (or higher) US government official under lengthy detention.
Checking for Interpol notices isn't sufficient. :eek:
I don't think Rumsfeld has to worry about travel in Europe, but he might not want to plan a trip to the Middle East anytime soon.
I like that Groucho Marx mustache & glasses thing. :D ^^
More seriously, Europe is exactly amongst the places where I'd worry most if I was Rumsfeld (or someone like him). :eek: Unlike a good number of European countries, particularly those tied under the EU umbrella, most all Middle Eastern countries are unlikely to place a former cabinet level (or higher) US government official under lengthy detention.
Checking for Interpol notices isn't sufficient. :eek:
etch5895
Nov 13, 06, 12:23 pm
More seriously, Europe is exactly amongst the places where I'd worry most if I was Rumsfeld (or someone like him). :eek: Unlike a good number of European countries, particularly those tied under the EU umbrella, most all Middle Eastern countries are unlikely to place a former cabinet level (or higher) US government official under lengthy detention.
Checking for Interpol notices isn't sufficient. :eek:
What countries do you think might try something like this? The only country in Europe that I can see having the cajones to try something like this would be Russia, and I doubt they would try something as bold as that. With all the troop support Poland, Romania and Bulgaria are giving us in the GWOT, I'm pretty sure they would not. It would be quite a show to watch, though.
Wouldn't he have to be tried and found guilty (in absentia, of course) in a court first?
Checking for Interpol notices isn't sufficient. :eek:
What countries do you think might try something like this? The only country in Europe that I can see having the cajones to try something like this would be Russia, and I doubt they would try something as bold as that. With all the troop support Poland, Romania and Bulgaria are giving us in the GWOT, I'm pretty sure they would not. It would be quite a show to watch, though.
Wouldn't he have to be tried and found guilty (in absentia, of course) in a court first?
GUWonder
Nov 13, 06, 12:35 pm
What countries do you think might try something like this? The only country in Europe that I can see having the cajones to try something like this would be Russia, and I doubt they would try something as bold as that. With all the troop support Poland, Romania and Bulgaria are giving us in the GWOT, I'm pretty sure they would not. It would be quite a show to watch, though.
Wouldn't he have to be tried and found guilty (in absentia, of course) in a court first?
Germany and Spain and Belgium come to mind for starters. Outside of Europe, India might find themselves in such a situation too because the judiciary will do its own thing.
No trial in absentia need be the case for this to happen, at least not in the case of some places in Europe. A judge or prosecutor determining a foreign government official to be a defendant or subject of investigation in a serious crime may well be sufficient.
Putin's Russia is the one place in Europe -- but it's not part of the EU -- that I don't see doing such a thing under any circumstances. In regards to Poland, Poland may have no choice but to put up a show of compliance at least for a bit or face far more serious consequences due to it's being within the EU. Same for other EU states. EU candidate states and those European states in line to join the EU soon are more free to do their own thing in this regard ... at least for now.
Wouldn't he have to be tried and found guilty (in absentia, of course) in a court first?
Germany and Spain and Belgium come to mind for starters. Outside of Europe, India might find themselves in such a situation too because the judiciary will do its own thing.
No trial in absentia need be the case for this to happen, at least not in the case of some places in Europe. A judge or prosecutor determining a foreign government official to be a defendant or subject of investigation in a serious crime may well be sufficient.
Putin's Russia is the one place in Europe -- but it's not part of the EU -- that I don't see doing such a thing under any circumstances. In regards to Poland, Poland may have no choice but to put up a show of compliance at least for a bit or face far more serious consequences due to it's being within the EU. Same for other EU states. EU candidate states and those European states in line to join the EU soon are more free to do their own thing in this regard ... at least for now.
fkarmali
Nov 13, 06, 5:43 pm
Germany and Spain and Belgium come to mind for starters. Outside of Europe, India might find themselves in such a situation too because the judiciary will do its own thing.
Good call on Germany
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/
Good call on Germany
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/
etch5895
Nov 13, 06, 7:09 pm
Good call on Germany
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/
Interesting article. I wonder if Angela Merkel will let this fly or not. My take was that the German government was trying to be US friendly.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/11/charges_sought_against_rumsfeld/
Interesting article. I wonder if Angela Merkel will let this fly or not. My take was that the German government was trying to be US friendly.
GUWonder
Nov 13, 06, 7:15 pm
Interesting article. I wonder if Angela Merkel will let this fly or not. My take was that the German government was trying to be US friendly.
Government "executives" cannot always swiftly and tightly control the movements in the legal system at home as readily as they'd wish. It'll be amusing to see how this "flies" or not. There's always another place. :eek:
Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Spain, and the United Kingdom are other places that may end up giving a few travel hiccups for such persons as the subject of the OP.
.... and venue shopping is certainly an option.
Government "executives" cannot always swiftly and tightly control the movements in the legal system at home as readily as they'd wish. It'll be amusing to see how this "flies" or not. There's always another place. :eek:
Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Spain, and the United Kingdom are other places that may end up giving a few travel hiccups for such persons as the subject of the OP.
.... and venue shopping is certainly an option.
GUWonder
Nov 15, 06, 1:59 pm
Using electricity in "interrogations" ... is making the rounds. This will be used in these kind of situations:
Long-haired, red-head German resident who is back in Germany has stories to tell .... but it doesn't involve tasers:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2238223,00.html
German prosecutors ended all criminal investigations involving the German resident because they could find no evidence of terrorism-related wrongdoings.
If I were a former government official involved in such a matter, then I'd be extra careful in my travel planning.
Long-haired, red-head German resident who is back in Germany has stories to tell .... but it doesn't involve tasers:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2238223,00.html
German prosecutors ended all criminal investigations involving the German resident because they could find no evidence of terrorism-related wrongdoings.
If I were a former government official involved in such a matter, then I'd be extra careful in my travel planning.