Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - First retrofitted aircraft in January 2007

The first aircraft to come into service in January 2007 is a B747-400 aircraft (B-HKT) and will feature the new interior for First and Business Class only (Economy Class will feature current seats). Succeeding aircraft will have the new products in all classes.

howcome not all 3 classes to be disclosed at the same time?

when will their Airbuses be revamped?

Is it even clear that the Airbuses are going to be revamped? I thought I had read that only the 747s and the new long range 777s will have the new config. But that raises all sorts of questions about the "regional" routes. NBC trickles down to replace RBC to become the new RBC or what?

Well CX have said that their Airbus J layout will be 1-1-1 in herringbone, so...

Their 3-class A330s will have to be retrofitted anyway, or they will be losing a lot of custom on the Sydney/Melbourne routes where the 333 is their main workhorse.

I think you have gotten confused with the 346/rest of Airbus fleet; to my knowledge the 346's are not being retrofitted because of their impending replacement with the 77W.

The new seats will be fitted on 44 aircraft of the current fleet (B747-400, A340-300 and A330-300) as well as on 23 new deliveries (B777-300ER and A330-300). In the future, only B747-400 and B777-300ER will remain as 3-class aircraft and current long haul A340 and A330 will be retrofitted to become 2-class aircraft.

The second aircraft will also be a 747-400. Seating capacity for 747-400 will be as follows:

First Class - 9 Seats
Business Class main cabin - 24 seats, upperdeck - 22 seats
Economy Class - 324 seats

So does that mean that CX is going to stop flying F to Australia?

And what will happen to the current Regional 777s and A330s? I can't believe they will be able to sustain the charade of having current "regional J" alongside (and substitutable for) the new long-haul J.

And the JFK non-stop won't consistently get the new F/J until perhaps a year after LHR? (when there are enough of the 777-300ERs in the fleet)

It seems we might be able to get rid of the Airbus to SYD if they are not offering F Calss on them anymore. OR it might share the same fate as YVR!

My guess is that F to Australia is gone. From what I can gather most of the people in F are op-ups and I've flown on quite a number of SYD flights when there has been 1-2 people in F.

My guess is that F to Australia is gone. From what I can gather most of the people in F are op-ups and I've flown on quite a number of SYD flights when there has been 1-2 people in F.


Well I am one of the lucky DMs that often get opup on that route! :D

But generally I was told by the sales mgr and the CSO at SYD F Class is still pretty high in demand. Hopefully they won't can it like AKL and YVR.

It seems we might be able to get rid of the Airbus to SYD if they are not offering F Calss on them anymore. OR it might share the same fate as YVR!

Has the YVR-HKG in F gone? Is it going? When?! Thanks.

Just re-read your post - I don't think you were saying that F on YVR-HKG has gone/going. Thanks.

Only the flights which go on to JFK have F. The ones which are simply HKG-YVR are now 2-class, and have been for a while.

In the future, only B747-400 and B777-300ER will remain as 3-class aircraft and current long haul A340 and A330 will be retrofitted to become 2-class aircraft.


So I suppose LHR will be a mix of 747 and 777 then? Can't imagine only 18 F seats per day to London.

OZ will never go 2 classes - there is way too much revenue for onward flights to/from Europe and Australia in 3 classes, and CX will lose F revenue to likes of other airlines like QF, BA, SQ and TG !

If CX has been ordering new A333 aircrafts as 3 classes, it does not make sense to have them reconfigured to 2 classes when there are other regional aircrafts around.

I believe CX will retain 3 classes to at least MEL/SYD.

But it's going to be a right old mess for quite a while. On any flight you're going to have the possibility of 8 very different products:

Old economy (let's just gloss over the differences between slimline seats and others and so on)
New economy (AVOD etc.)
"Old" regional business (no AVOD but the good old seats)
"New" regional business (no AVOD and awful new seats)
"Less new" long haul business (1st gen AVOD, lie flat but not horizontal)
"New new" long haul business (2nd gen AVOD, horizontal, herringbone)
"Less new" First (1st gen AVOD, with enough storage space)
"New new" First (2nd gen AVOD, without enough storage space, but with a seat somewhat uselessly wide enough for 1.5 people, or with an equally useless 12 inch wide armrest)

And the equipment switches will no doubt get worse and it will be a nightmare to predictably buy a particular product. If I bought a flight expecting "New New" long-haul business and ended up in "less new" regional business I would be furious.

I can't see how they can sustainably sell only 3 classes across that unless they can get their equipment switching much more under control than currently.

But it's going to be a right old mess for quite a while. On any flight you're going to have the possibility of 8 very different products:

Old economy (let's just gloss over the differences between slimline seats and others and so on)
New economy (AVOD etc.)
"Old" regional business (no AVOD but the good old seats)
"New" regional business (no AVOD and awful new seats)
"Less new" long haul business (1st gen AVOD, lie flat but not horizontal)
"New new" long haul business (2nd gen AVOD, horizontal, herringbone)
"Less new" First (1st gen AVOD, with enough storage space)
"New new" First (2nd gen AVOD, without enough storage space, but with a seat somewhat uselessly wide enough for 1.5 people, or with an equally useless 12 inch wide armrest)

And the equipment switches will no doubt get worse and it will be a nightmare to predictably buy a particular product. If I bought a flight expecting "New New" long-haul business and ended up in "less new" regional business I would be furious.

I can't see how they can sustainably sell only 3 classes across that unless they can get their equipment switching much more under control than currently.

Welcome to the world of SQ!

LOL chris, I guess you've never been bounced around by EK's a/c changes.

BTW Dave, SQ won't be any better because once the 77Ws arrive, they too will have the same mixed seating structure (if not even worse), albeit I'm not familiar on how often they swap a/c.

SQ:

F:
Regional
Standard Int'l
New Int'l (on 77Ws)

J:
Regional
Standard Int'l
New Int'l (on 77Ws)


Y:
Old
New (on 77Ws

Will CX retain a 74J config with additional new J seats for the LAX routes??

Will CX retain a 74J config with additional new J seats for the LAX routes??

CX will only keep one 747 configuration from hereon in when the new configuration kicks in.

BTW Dave, SQ won't be any better because once the 77Ws arrive, they too will have the same mixed seating structure (if not even worse), albeit I'm not familiar on how often they swap a/c.





Actually that is exactly what I meant. Welcome to the world of SQ aircraft swaping!

i don't get it....

how come the first retrofitted aircraft doesn't feature new econ seats??!!

i guess SYD will get 744 on one of the 3 flights, and that flight get F class then..impossible for SYD not having F!!

MEL not sure...

and all other Oceania routes will be 2-class...
guess CX may even put all 330 (currently 2 and 3 classes) revamped, and so PER, BNE, CNS, DXB those so-called 'regional' routes will get better seats!!

and once all 77W comes, all North America routes will get them!

and once all 77W comes, all North America routes will get them!

I'm not totally familiar with CX's NA schedules and equipment, so pardon me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, CX used A346 once daily to JFK, 744 once daily to JFK via YVR, 744 once daily to SFO, and three 744's daily to LAX (one daytime departure from LAX, two nightly). As I understand it, CX has pretty good pax loads on all of its flights, and some have clamored for a second daily to SFO for a while. Sooooo... if all of these switch to 77W, won't that be a big reduction in capacity, that could be compensated only be an increase in frequencies? Is that in the cards? That is, will a second daily to SFO be coming?

Just curious.

I'm not totally familiar with CX's NA schedules and equipment, so pardon me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, CX used A346 once daily to JFK, 744 once daily to JFK via YVR, 744 once daily to SFO, and three 744's daily to LAX (one daytime departure from LAX, two nightly). As I understand it, CX has pretty good pax loads on all of its flights, and some have clamored for a second daily to SFO for a while. Sooooo... if all of these switch to 77W, won't that be a big reduction in capacity, that could be compensated only be an increase in frequencies? Is that in the cards? That is, will a second daily to SFO be coming?

Just curious.
JFK is a 346 & 343 route, so swapping them for 2x77W would mean a capacity increase
SFO would see a reduction if the second daily isn't launched
LAX shouldn't be too much of a problem even with the capacity shortfall since there's over capacity on that route anyway

YYZ would be upgraded from 343 to 77W
YVR would change from 744 & 343 to 2x77W, which should be roughly the same number of available seats

This is only a estimate, assuming that the 77Ws will replace all other a/c to NA and that the 77W will seat more than the 346, but if the final config of the 77W is smaller than that of the 346 (due to the new seats) then there would indeed be a drastic reduction in capacity.

JFK is a 346 & 343 route, so swapping them for 2x77W would mean a capacity increase
SFO would see a reduction if the second daily isn't launched
LAX shouldn't be too much of a problem even with the capacity shortfall since there's over capacity on that route anyway

YYZ would be upgraded from 343 to 77W
YVR would change from 744 & 343 to 2x77W, which should be roughly the same number of available seats

This is only a estimate, assuming that the 77Ws will replace all other a/c to NA and that the 77W will seat more than the 346, but if the final config of the 77W is smaller than that of the 346 (due to the new seats) then there would indeed be a drastic reduction in capacity.


From wat CX stated, about only 744 and 77W having 3 class configuration, would that be a hint that 346 will be phrased out?

i m more concern about their AUS, NZ deployment, as EUROPE and USA is quite obvious already!

JFK is a 346 & 343 route, so swapping them for 2x77W would mean a capacity increase

JFK is currently a 346 & 744 route. CX831/CX830 nonstop is on the 346 and CX889/CX888 via YVR is on the 744. I think that swapping both dailies to the 77W would reduce seats in F and J.

As far as 2007 New First & 2007 New Business on CX889/CX888, it would seem that reduction in First would be from 12 to 9 seats. Reduction in Business would be from 47 to 46. Although once in a while, CX889/CX888 uses 744 Premium configuration and that would be a reduction in Business from 65 to 46.

think that swapping both dailies to the 77W would reduce seats in F and J.

Do we even know what the seat config FJY for the 77W is yet? They could deck them out with a high J ratio just like the A346. In fact with the 744 fleet supposed to be standardized with one (low J) config would not surprise me at all if the 77W became a 'premium' configured a/c.

LAX shouldn't be too much of a problem even with the capacity shortfall since there's over capacity on that route anyway
.

I think the biggest problem with LAX is the winter 'tech' stops. The 77W has a longer range than the 744. Slightly reduced capacity/longer range, seems ideal to me.

I just had a thought regarding the suspicion that F might disappear on Australian routes: if this occurred, CX wouldn't be able to sell a full F service LHR - Australia. I'm sure this market can be quite a lucrative market, so it's less likely they would sacrifice F on HKG-SYD.

I believe CX 77W will have similar configuraton with CX 74J in terms of F and J seating. It should have 8F and 60J. I guess that's why CX does not need a second configuration for 744.

Anyhow, op up from J to F will become a rarer occasion.

Carfield

When 77Ws come on line, they will replace the A346s, which will be redeployed to fly nonstop to YYZ.