Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Connection time at FRA for U.S. flights

I'm ticketed on a UA flight SFO-FRA, and I'm considering purchasing a nested ticket on LH from FRA-MXP. I would have 2 hours 45 minutes for the outbound connection, but only 1 hour 45 minutes on the return. (LH3883 arriving at 12:15, connecting to UA901 departing at 14:00.)

Is 1:45 enough time to connect from my Italy-Frankfurt flight to my Frankfurt-U.S. flight? (I don't plan to check bags.)

Also, what is the most efficient way of getting my BP for the return flight? Can I get my BP from United's RCC, or do I have to go landside?

If your flight from MXP is on time, 1:45 is certainly enough. If I have my boarding pass and no luggage I feel fully comfortble with one hour in Frankfurt, have done it (even without HON priviledges in 35 minutes). I do not know about the BP, but there certainly is a transfer airside which has a tendency to be very crowded. Should not be that bad around lunchtime.

(...)Also, what is the most efficient way of getting my BP for the return flight? Can I get my BP from United's RCC, or do I have to go landside?
If you say nested I assume you mean to travel on separate tickets, right?

If it would be one itinerary LH Malpensa should be able to print the BP for UA901 as well. If not you will need the BP printed in FRA. RCC can surely do this, but you may not be able to get there (T1-C) without a valid departure BP. UA901 usually departs in T1-C as well and MXP flights arrive in T1-A. I'm quite sure you must go landside to UA checkin (Hall B, but only ~3 minutes from A exit to the right). But it shouldn't be to crowded at UA around noon.

If you travel with carry-on only, be aware, that Europe will introduce almost the same liquid ban rules, than the US (starting Nov 6 here).

If you say nested I assume you mean to travel on separate tickets, right?

If it would be one itinerary LH Malpensa should be able to print the BP for UA901 as well. If not you will need the BP printed in FRA. RCC can surely do this, but you may not be able to get there (T1-C) without a valid departure BP. UA901 usually departs in T1-C as well and MXP flights arrive in T1-A. I'm quite sure you must go landside to UA checkin (Hall B, but only ~3 minutes from A exit to the right). But it shouldn't be to crowded at UA around noon.

If you travel with carry-on only, be aware, that Europe will introduce almost the same liquid ban rules, than the US (starting Nov 6 here).
Yes, it's on a separate ticket. (For some reason, it was cheaper that way.) So, I won't have my BP when I get to FRA. I'll ask LH in MXP if they will check me in for the separate UA flight, too, but I won't expect it. Also, I wonder if they would let me into T1-C with a printed itinerary.

When I go landside in FRA to check in with UA, will I (with a U.S. passport) have to go through customs & immigration? If not, then I would feel pretty good about the 1:45 connection time (unless the LH flight is late, in which case I know I am SOL).

When I go landside in FRA to check in with UA, will I (with a U.S. passport) have to go through customs & immigration? If not, then I would feel pretty good about the 1:45 connection time (unless the LH flight is late, in which case I know I am SOL).
When you arrive from MXP, you are already in the Schengen area, i.e. no customs & immigration to go landside.
You will have a passport control when going to the US-gate (independently whether you go landside or not). Maybe - I'm not sure - you can save one security control but not going landside.

More information on Schengen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

When you arrive from MXP, you are already in the Schengen area, i.e. no customs & immigration to go landside.
You will have a passport control when going to the US-gate (independently whether you go landside or not). Maybe - I'm not sure - you can save one security control but not going landside.

More information on Schengen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

You definetly safe one security control by going not landside...

I had three security controls because I went landside once...

1)regular security
2) special security for flights to the U.S. by german/european staff
3) special security for flights to the U.S. by american staff...

Furthermore you have two passport controls...

1)german boarder control
2)kind of american boarder control

As long as both flights are in time, 1:45 hour is still fine...

You definetly safe one security control by going not landside...

I had three security controls because I went landside once...

1)regular security
2) special security for flights to the U.S. by german/european staff
3) special security for flights to the U.S. by american staff...

Furthermore you have two passport controls...

1)german boarder control
2)kind of american boarder control

As long as both flights are in time, 1:45 hour is still fine...
If UA901 departs from the C gates as usual, there is only one security screening and one passport control. The kind of American boarder control is standard procedure for all flights to the US to synchonize, whether all API checks for all pax have been performed.

@Mikew99:
I have my doubts with a printed itinerary. Honestly, would you expect it working in SFO to enter the Intl. Terminal G without a real BP? Probably not. So, why should it work in FRA? :eek:

You should ask LH in MXP to check you in for UA901. But I can't see it really working. Don't know, whether UA offers a worldwide phone checkin, like LH. If so, you may call UA for checkin in MXP. This may allow LH to print your BP.

Furthermore you have two passport controls...

1)german boarder control
2)kind of american boarder control
There is no kind of american border control as there is no US preclearance in Europe (SNN used to have US customs and immigration but that was discontinued IIRC). You probably mean the APIS check (more info on APIS (http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/info_and_services/travel_preparation?l=de&nodeid=1756436)).

There is no kind of american border control as there is no US preclearance in Europe (SNN used to have US customs and immigration but that was discontinued IIRC). You probably mean the APIS check (more info on APIS (http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/info_and_services/travel_preparation?l=de&nodeid=1756436)).

propably this was the APIS check...

Why do they recheck that by person? I mean it's just easy... Have the list of all passengers of a flight, have all addresses and than they can go....

They do they make a big effort like that? I think I know the answer: they are just crazy... :mad:

propably this was the APIS check...

Why do they recheck that by person? I mean it's just easy... Have the list of all passengers of a flight, have all addresses and than they can go....

They do they make a big effort like that? I think I know the answer: they are just crazy... :mad:The addresses have to be submitted to US authorities before the plane leaves. Plus: LH will be liable if pax without presubmitted APIS data arrive in the US.

There will always be pax without APIS data arrive at the gate, for example interlinging traffic etc.

Yes, it's on a separate ticket. (For some reason, it was cheaper that way.) So, I won't have my BP when I get to FRA. I'll ask LH in MXP if they will check me in for the separate UA flight, too, but I won't expect it. Also, I wonder if they would let me into T1-C with a printed itinerary.

When I go landside in FRA to check in with UA, will I (with a U.S. passport) have to go through customs & immigration? If not, then I would feel pretty good about the 1:45 connection time (unless the LH flight is late, in which case I know I am SOL).
Earlier this year I had to connect to a UA flight in FRA (following a re-route, because of cancelled connecting flights). LH in GVA was unable to issue a UA BP, but did check the bags through. I obtained my UA BP in the RCC at FRA, which is behind the special US security check. I don't remember what happened in detail, but suspect that I just showed my ticket (which wasn't even correct, because of the reroute!) at the security line and explained my BP was in the RCC. It certainly wasn't a big deal, though I confess it was before the August hassle. This was a 1 hour or just over connexion and there was no big rush.

There is no kind of american border control as there is no US preclearance in Europe (SNN used to have US customs and immigration but that was discontinued IIRC). You probably mean the APIS check (more info on APIS (http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/info_and_services/travel_preparation?l=de&nodeid=1756436)).
I must say, it has been a while now for me. because of the FCT luxury...

...but I remember those small rollable desks just in front of the gates. Sometimes they were standing there with 4 such desks serving 4 or more different flights. They checked each passport, the BP and sometimes asked for the return ticket. Finally they crossed out my name on a list. This has been in place definitely before all that APIS stuff. Did never understand the need for that, because it was annoying.

This has been in place definitely before all that APIS stuff. Did never understand the need for that, because it was annoying.Some form of APIS is in effect since at least 1998.

I have done this twice recently. I buy *A airpass plus UA ticket. Your main concern is that LH cannot check you in so you must check-in at the RCC (via B terminal) or in the main hall with UA.

On my last trip this week I took a flight that was supposed to arrive from NUE at 15:00. It arrived at 15:15. Then I went to the LH SEN lounge (ask if I can check in for the UA flight and they say no as expected, but this is mostly so that they let me in). Then I grab some Scandinavian newspapers and some food and drink. Then around 15:50 I head over to check in with UA. The best option is to take the train (if you are way down in A terminal). The train will dump you right above the UA check-in desks. Then by 16:05 I will be in the RCC where they have already announced boarding for the 17:00 flight. I will wait maybe 20 minutes until they boot me out........

If you go A to B and then to C then you have a security check before you enter C. What is the purpose of this? There is another special security in the corridor around C6 for the US and Israel flights.

When I take the train then it dumps into the terminal, which forces me to go through the standard C security. If there were no security in the hallway then I would advise going through B rather than the train.

The train is interesting. It has separate compartments that only appear to open depending if you are Schengen or non-Schengen.

May I please revive this thread with my own somewhat similar question?

I have two separate tickets. The first is a round trip PHL-FRA-PHL (Philadelphia) itinerary, where the outbound is UA-coded and UA-operated, and the return flight is LH-coded and LH-operated. (My question here concerns the return flight.)

My second ticket is a nested FRA-BUD-FRA itinerary, all LH-coded and LH-operated. This second ticket was purchased on the LH website, and is an "E" class ticket. (The base fare is nearly zero, but the taxes and fees are EUR 100. :rolleyes: )

On the return, I use the second portion of both tickets to "connect" BUD-FRA-PHL. My connection time in FRA is 1:25. Normally, I would not be concerned with such a connection, but I am curious if the LH staff at BUD will be able to (1) check my luggage through to PHL, and (2) give me boarding passes for both BUD-FRA and FRA-PHL. (Again, both flights are LH-coded and LH-operated.)

I live in the US, and I have done similar things with US carriers. But I am not sure if LH would allow the same at Budapest. Also, does the fact that the nested ticket is "E" class affect this at all?

FWIW, I am *Gold through UA (1K); I am not sure if that will help or hurt. ;)


Thank you in advance for any opinions or advice.

May I please revive this thread with my own somewhat similar question?

I have two separate tickets. The first is a round trip PHL-FRA-PHL (Philadelphia) itinerary, where the outbound is UA-coded and UA-operated, and the return flight is LH-coded and LH-operated. (My question here concerns the return flight.)

My second ticket is a nested FRA-BUD-FRA itinerary, all LH-coded and LH-operated. This second ticket was purchased on the LH website, and is an "E" class ticket. (The base fare is nearly zero, but the taxes and fees are EUR 100. :rolleyes: )

On the return, I use the second portion of both tickets to "connect" BUD-FRA-PHL. My connection time in FRA is 1:25. Normally, I would not be concerned with such a connection, but I am curious if the LH staff at BUD will be able to (1) check my luggage through to PHL, and (2) give me boarding passes for both BUD-FRA and FRA-PHL. (Again, both flights are LH-coded and LH-operated.)

I live in the US, and I have done similar things with US carriers. But I am not sure if LH would allow the same at Budapest. Also, does the fact that the nested ticket is "E" class affect this at all?

FWIW, I am *Gold through UA (1K); I am not sure if that will help or hurt. ;)


Thank you in advance for any opinions or advice.

You will be able to check your luggage all the way, but LH in BUD will not be able to issue your boarding pass. Like most airlines they can not check you in for another airport if ticket is on different PNR. You can already check in by phone from BUD and just pick up your boarding pass at the transfer desk (or lounge). 125 minutes will be fine as long as the flight from BUD haqs not more than 1hour delay....

Cheers, S

125 minutes will be fine as long as the flight from BUD haqs not more than 1hour delay....

I think the connection is 85 minutes. Easily doable if all running to plan, but doesn't leave much room for delays IMO.

Yes, it's an 85 minute connection. Since the BUD flights arrive into the non-Schengen area, I am hoping that may help a bit. (Of course, a bus arrival wouldn't help.)

Thanks for the advice - Part of my concern resulted from wondering if the inexpensive nature of the "E" class fare might cause any problems. I looked in the fare rules and didn't see anything like "non-combinable with anything" so I was hoping there would not be anything unusual about it.

Thanks!

Yes, it's an 85 minute connection. Since the BUD flights arrive into the non-Schengen area, I am hoping that may help a bit. (Of course, a bus arrival wouldn't help.)

Thanks for the advice - Part of my concern resulted from wondering if the inexpensive nature of the "E" class fare might cause any problems. I looked in the fare rules and didn't see anything like "non-combinable with anything" so I was hoping there would not be anything unusual about it.

Thanks!

Don't worry I am doing it regularly to avoid the extremely expensive LH business fares from the US to Germany......

Cheers, S

An update to my original post:

Well, my number came up last week! No problems on the outbound, but on the return last Monday, it was a different story.

First, my LH flight at 1050 am from MXP-FRA was cancelled, only I didn't know it. Fortunately, I got to MXP just before 9 am, so after waiting about 20 minutes in the (shorter) *G check-in line, I got my BP for the 955 am flight instead. Great! Or so I had thought, but the 955 am flight was already delayed by 30 minutes. (There was bad, bad fog in MXP that morning.) Still, it would get me into FRA in plenty of time. As mentioned several times above, LH could not check me in for my onward UA flight, because of the separate tickets.

The next step was to deal with the incredibly long security line, which (for those of you who know MXP) stretched all the way up the stairs to the check-in level! That took at least 30 minutes to wade though. Spent quite a while in the nice LH lounge waiting for the gate number to appear for the flight. Finally, around 11 am (yes, the 955 am flight was already delayed until 11 am), the flight was posted with a departure time of 1145 am.

Went to the gate around 1100 to find that they were not yet boarding, so I waited...and waited...with no LH personnel in sight. We did not board until about 1145 am, and I began to get worried. We finished boarding shortly thereafter, with an estimated push-back time of 1215. That time came and went, and after a long series of problems (from missing paperwork, to having to remove baggage due to passengers deciding not to take the flight, to having to calculate things manually due to computers being down), we finally pushed back at 1 pm -- 3 hours late!

Even though we got into FRA at 1:50 pm, not even Superman could have made a 2 pm flight, even WITH a BP. I missed the connecting passageway to Terminal C from Terminal A and ended up back in the check-in area again, but it was too late: UA 901 departure at 2:00 pm was already closed. If the flight delay was only 2.5 hours, I might have made it, but a 3-hour delay was a killer!

I tried for the one standby opportunity (via IAD), but it did not clear, so I went to the LH Senator lounge to book a hotel for the night. (I chose to spring for the very nice Sheraton, which I stayed at last year, even though there were cheaper options further afield.) In the meantime, UA had confirmed me on the next day's UA 901 and re-applied my upgrade (which did clear at the gate).

One positve outcome: I took the train to the Hauptwache area (which I always enjoy) and the Christmas market was in full swing. To top it off, I got a call back from a friend in Frankfurt who I had not seen in some time, and we got the chance to reconnect and catch up a bit.

In the end, the cost of the hotel just about cancelled out the savings from buying the separate tickets! If I had to do it again, I might instead take the flight the night before to decrease the chances of misconnecting.

Mike - Sorry to hear about the problems... but I have a quick question. From your story, it sounds like UA re-accommodated you for no additional fee... is that how it worked? Even though you were flying on a separate ticket, and did not check in for the original flight in time, they would have let you go standby later in the day for free?

(I have had different experience with AF, so that is the reason for the clarfication request...)

Mike - Sorry to hear about the problems... but I have a quick question. From your story, it sounds like UA re-accommodated you for no additional fee... is that how it worked? Even though you were flying on a separate ticket, and did not check in for the original flight in time, they would have let you go standby later in the day for free?

Yes, that's correct. Without any prompting, UA offered to waitlist me for standby on the later UA flight that day to SFO via IAD. In addition, UA offered me a confirmed seat on the LH flight the next morning. Preferring to use my SWU on UA (and sleep in later :) ), I asked for, and received, a confirmed seat on the UA flight the next afternoon. At no point did any UA agent talk about any charges or fees for the change. I might add, the UA agents at FRA were extremely pleasant to deal with!

However, I'm not sure if UA reaccommodated me because of policy, or FF status, or just because they were being nice. There are lots of threads about "flat-tire" rules and such, but outside of the specific cases listed in the rules, it's hard for me to draw any general conclusions.

I am considering an award ticket with the return trip routing is NCE-FRA-IAD on a Thursday in August.

NCE-FRA is LH in J 11:00-12:40
FRA-IAD is UA in F 13:20-15:50

Any veterans out there who can advise us on whether 40 mins for this connection is reasonable assuming flights are on time? We will be traveling on US passports and my wife is *G through UA, if that matters. We have not done a connection in FRA before -- we usually choose ZRH if we need to connect.

Any help would be most appreciated!

I am considering an award ticket with the return trip routing is NCE-FRA-IAD on a Thursday in August.

NCE-FRA is LH in J 11:00-12:40
FRA-IAD is UA in F 13:20-15:50

Any veterans out there who can advise us on whether 40 mins for this connection is reasonable assuming flights are on time? We will be traveling on US passports and my wife is *G through UA, if that matters. We have not done a connection in FRA before -- we usually choose ZRH if we need to connect.

Any help would be most appreciated!

That's not a "legal" connection in FRA, the minimum is 60 minutes and to be honest: you need them, especially when you connect to a flight to the US. Both flights could be on a bus parking position, even the UA flights to the US...

I have another option that has an exactly 60 min connect time to an LH flight in J going to JFK rather than IAD, but sounds like even though that's legal it could be tight. Looks like I would have to take that one (or the 4+ hr layover into EWR). Thanks for the insight.

On award tickets some people sometimes try to schedule tight connections if only because any reroute increases the chances that they'd earn miles on the award ticket or its reroute.

On award tickets some people sometimes try to schedule tight connections if only because any reroute increases the chances that they'd earn miles on the award ticket or its reroute.

When there is a short connection, then it is OK for me, because this mean not long hanging out at the airport. If you are not weero, most times it will work fine and you will arrive on your booked route on time. So I book my flight always with short connections, because when it will works, I save a lot of time on travelling. Rebooking to a later flight is always possible, when I miss one.