American Express Membership Rewards - SPG Amex - now with ExpressPay!

I received my new Business SPG Amex recently. Just noticed on the back that there's an ExpressPay logo next to the Amex logo. After a bit of searching, it appears that in addition to the various Blue cards and Clear, the SPG card is the latest Amex to get ExpressPay (both small business and personal versions.) Another plus for our favorite Amex. Shame we just can't be compatible with European-style chip and pin though.

There's no visible RFID tag and antenna like with Blue, so I wouldn't have even realized this if I hadn't seen the small logo on the back.

(Sorry if this has been covered, but recent searches of anything but titles have just been spitting back errors at me.)

I got the new card too (called in to get it sooner). If you look closely, the RFID tag is visible if you look closely at your card... A little square is right above the AMEX logo on the back, and you can also see the lines extending from it and around to form a rectangle roughly 1x2.5".

I'm not so sure if I'm happy with the RFID tag since I recently read an article about how card issuers have been putting in your name, card# and expiration date on it and it's easily hackable to be read from a distance much greater than five feet.

wow, disappointing. oh well, at least amex is good about disputing charges :P

I got the new card too (called in to get it sooner). If you look closely, the RFID tag is visible if you look closely at your card... A little square is right above the AMEX logo on the back, and you can also see the lines extending from it and around to form a rectangle roughly 1x2.5".

I'm not so sure if I'm happy with the RFID tag since I recently read an article about how card issuers have been putting in your name, card# and expiration date on it and it's easily hackable to be read from a distance much greater than five feet.

Ah yes, there it is indeed.

I'm not too worried about the RFID tag myself since there are tons of other, far easier methods to steal credit cards. Still, the technology and security do indeed need to be improved.

You can get a non-RFID version from Amex if you want—good for a whole 3 months. I had a Blue that I had them ship me an expedited international replacement for, and they told me that they couldn't do the chip on it and thus would be valid for only 3 months. (Every other international replacement's just been a regular permanent card.) At the same time they set up a regular replacement with chip to go to my home address. On the temporary replacement, the place where the chip goes is just a black square with none of the antenna stuff.

Another option would be to stick a couple of electrodes through the plastic and attempt to run some voltage through the RFID tag. Or just poke through the thing a bunch until you hopefully destroy it. :)

hmm :D

http://symblogogy.blogspot.com/2006/10/speedpassing-rfid-privacy-strategies.html

blogspot seems down, but should be interesting read when its back up

A cool "solution" might be to have a card that one can actually switch the chip on and off in. There could be a very small hole in the side, and the card could be supplied with a device that you push into the hole that hits a mechanical toggle to physically disable/enable the RFID circuit. The device or card could have a little indicator that slides back and forth between red and green to indicate if RFID is enabled or disabled. (Well, maybe not red and green due to the prevalance of red-green colorblindness...)
Of course, this is too confusing for the average cardholder and thus completely infeasible. At the very least, card issuers should let you request a non-RFID version of the card, at least until a secure, open, and independently verifiable standard is implemented.

I'm not worrying about it until I see actual news reports of non-theoretical attacks involving gathering card info this way. You are currently hundreds or thousands of times more likely to have your card details stolen by a store clerk, from a dumpster, grabbed from a compromised ATM with one of those pass-through readers stuck to it, or stolen from a vendor's database. Or even just read over your shoulder.

ExpressPay has been a godsend for me at places like 7-11. No other merchants that I know of in my area (SF Bay) have this technology. I don't even need to take the card out of my wallet, just hold the wallet up to the reader and I am good to go. It's pretty cool when everybody looks at me funny for a few seconds when I just hold my wallet upto the reader and a receipt spits out a few seconds later

Also- expresspay only works the way it's advertised for purchases under $25. Anything above that requires a signature, which adds a little more security. In this case, the only benefit is not having to hand the card over or take it out of your wallet if you are like me.

See here (https://www124.americanexpress.com/cards/loyalty.do?page=expresspay.cards.faq) for FAQs about ExpressPay from Amex.

ExpressPay has been a godsend for me at places like 7-11. No other merchants that I know of in my area (SF Bay) have this technology. I don't even need to take the card out of my wallet, just hold the wallet up to the reader and I am good to go. It's pretty cool when everybody looks at me funny for a few seconds when I just hold my wallet upto the reader and a receipt spits out a few seconds later

Also- expresspay only works the way it's advertised for purchases under $25. Anything above that requires a signature, which adds a little more security. In this case, the only benefit is not having to hand the card over or take it out of your wallet if you are like me.

I just used ExpressPay for the first time at CVS a little while ago. Tapped my wallet, got a receipt, and I was on my way. They didn't ask me for my signature even though my purchase was $55. Pretty cool indeed (even if it's practically antique technology at this point!)

I'd been using Oyster quite a bit in London the past couple months so I felt like I should be looking for the way down to the trains after tapping my wallet... :)

I was thinking about it, but then I found the following paragraph in the T&C:
... However, if your ExpressPay is linked to another American Express Card product that offers bonus points or points at an increased rate for spending at particular categories of establishments that accept the Card, you will not receive those bonus points or the increased rate when you use ExpressPay.

does blue get bonus points anywhere?

does blue get bonus points anywhere?

Amex travel online :)

(which I found out posts 10-12 weeks later, not in the same statement)

I was thinking about it, but then I found the following paragraph in the T&C:
Oh, crap! I am going to remove my Delta Skymiles Keyfob and lock it up forever. :td:

I was thinking about it, but then I found the following paragraph in the T&C:
Wow. That's bizarre--it doesn't make any sense to me. (Unless maybe ExpressPay transactions are somehow processed differently on the back-end and there is only one ExpressPay merchant type code??)

Wow. That's bizarre--it doesn't make any sense to me. (Unless maybe ExpressPay transactions are somehow processed differently on the back-end and there is only one ExpressPay merchant type code??)


Why Bizaire?
Sneak in some fine print and change the terms.
Increase your profit margin.
I think this was available with MOST cards , but you had to send a seprate card,

With Hilton, you'd be losing a lot.

ith starwood most purchases are on par anyway. no bonus catagories,.

I'm surprised gas stations haven't started accepting RFID cards, especially since ExxonMobil has been using Speedpass for quite some time.

Another option would be to stick a couple of electrodes through the plastic and attempt to run some voltage through the RFID tag. Or just poke through the thing a bunch until you hopefully destroy it. :)

I wonder if those 'sensormatic' readers (located at many clothing stores' registers) would invalidate the RFID tags as well, since there is a version of an anti-shoplifting tag that looks simillar to the device we have in our card.

As for just holding up your wallet to the reader, I would assume this would pose a problem if you have multiple cards that have this feature. :p

If that comment about the T&C is true, I would probably never use the express pay, but then again the SPG amex card rarely has promotions related to merchants that would even have the card readers available.

I was thinking about it, but then I found the following paragraph in the T&C:

Are you saying if you have a SPG AMEX card and use Express Pay, you don't get any SPG points?

i dont foresee starwood properties / stores having expresspay soon.. or is expresspay really expanding that rapidly?

I don't particularly see the need for Starwood properties to have expresspay. The whole concept of expresspay is for places where speed is of the essence (McDonalds, 7-11, drugstores, etc...). At a hotel you already have the option of television checkout, or just drop off your keys, etc...

Also- a hotel is not the place where you just want to swipe and leave, most (if not all) guests like to review their bill and discuss charges with the staff. Having an expresspay option would reduce the level of cutomer interaction with staff, which is essential in a service oriented industry.

i dont foresee starwood properties / stores having expresspay soon.. or is expresspay really expanding that rapidly?

The SPG Business AMEX has ExpressPay.

I was thinking about it, but then I found the following paragraph in the T&C:

I called AMEX and they had no clue what I was talking about as it relates to this.

They promised that I would enrn the basic mileage/SPGs for card purchases.

Reading the above, it is concievable, if you could or did use ExpressPay to check out of a Starwood Hotel, you might not get the "extra" points you otherwise would get for SPG stays, so don't use ExpressPay for those checkout (not that it's even available for those purposes).

starwood hotels and stores are not going to have expresspay anytime soon. so you will never be in a position where you need to choose not to use expresspay in order to ensure you earn your bonus points.

I just got my card, with ExpressPay. I called and asked Amex for a card without ExpressPay, and they said no.

That's disappointing. I'm the consumer after all, and I should be able to get a card with no RFID tag if that's what I want. Especially since there's no SPG points for ExpressPay purchases.

I suppose I can carry on using my old SPG Amex until it stops working, or shift to the green cash card...until they put RFID in that one, too.

Has anyone had success in getting an SPG Amex with no RFID?

I've seen no vendors here on Kaua'i with that logo, but I'll try using it just for the hoot when traveling next. Thanks for thread.

Well, my ruby red SPG Amex does NOT have the express pay logo. I called and was assured that it did have the feature but I have not been able to verify it nor apply it to a card reader.

The faq listed above says you cah ask to have the feature disabled.

Jim

Ah yes, they can disable it on the backend so ExpressPay transactions will be declined.

But that doesn't keep the chip in the card from calling out my name and account number to anyone with a reader. Perhaps many people won't be bothered by that fact, but it bothers me. I should be able to ask for a card with no chip instead of having Amex tell me to "take it or leave it."

ExpressPay has been a godsend for me at places like 7-11. No other merchants that I know of in my area (SF Bay) have this technology. I don't even need to take the card out of my wallet, just hold the wallet up to the reader and I am good to go. It's pretty cool when everybody looks at me funny for a few seconds when I just hold my wallet upto the reader and a receipt spits out a few seconds later


How does it work if one had more than one RFID card in a wallet??:rolleyes:

I love the ExpressPay on my Blue; I'm in 7-11 and CVS all the time for drinks and misc items (and Starburst candy; don't tell my personal trainer :)).

RFID transactions are encrypted, and with the $25 limit, I really don't worry about it. Considering it's the CC companies that'll have to eat the fraudulent charges, I'm sure they've given it a lot of thought as well.

I'd also think that you'd need to have a LOT of small ExpressPay transactions that probably wouldn't add up to much if that's the only reason you don't want to use an ExpressPay-enabled SPG card.

I just got my card, with ExpressPay. I called and asked Amex for a card without ExpressPay, and they said no.

That's disappointing. I'm the consumer after all, and I should be able to get a card with no RFID tag if that's what I want. Especially since there's no SPG points for ExpressPay purchases.

I suppose I can carry on using my old SPG Amex until it stops working, or shift to the green cash card...until they put RFID in that one, too.

Has anyone had success in getting an SPG Amex with no RFID?

No rewards on ExpressPay purchases? MasterCard Paypass offers normal rewards with PayPass purchases just as if you had used your card.

No rewards on ExpressPay purchases?

This is not what the terms say...

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6598220&postcount=9

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6640137&postcount=21

... most (if not all) guests like to review their bill and discuss charges with the staff. .

No! Some properties are introducing self service check-in, which may permit me to realize a dream - a stay in which I never speak to any member of the hotel staff. Most hotels deliver a copy of the bill on the last night of the stay. I use video checkout if it is offered, otherwise I simply walk out of the building unless I notice an error on the bill.

http://www.rfid-shield.com/products_cc.php

http://smarttools.home.att.net/rfshield.htm

http://idstronghold.com/index.php

I know there are RF-shielded wallets around, or heck I could wrap it in aluminum foil, but I shouldn't have to. It should be my choice. Given all the previous press coverage around RFID, I'm really surprised there's no way to opt out, other than cancelling the card. Or just leaving it home and using it only for card-not-present transactions, another unappealing option.

Also- a hotel is not the place where you just want to swipe and leave, most (if not all) guests like to review their bill and discuss charges with the staff. Having an expresspay option would reduce the level of cutomer interaction with staff, which is essential in a service oriented industry.

I don't disagree with you that positive staff interaction with the customer is essential, but on what data are you basing your claim that "most (if not all guests like to review their bill and discuss charges with the staff"? I have never "discussed" charges with staff except to correct errors (which are rare). That sort of "you guys got my bill wrong" interaction is negative and should be avoided by hotels by billing correctly in the first place!

For those who use ExpressPay - what happens if you have two ExpressPay-equipped cards in your wallet? I assume you still need to take the card you select out of your wallet, otherwise you're playing the lottery as to which card gets charged...

If the reader detects two cards, it is supposed to not charge either one. In practice, if you hold up two cards that's what happens most of the time. But sometimes the reader can only communicate with one card, and that's the one that will be charged!

On the redesigned MasterCard PayPass site, they suggest you remove the one you want to use from your wallet, implying some just hold up thier wallet.

In my opinion having ExpressPay or PayPass for that matter embedded in your card is not convenient. It is much better to have a key chain tag or mobile phone. If it is in your card, you still have to take out your wallet and pull out the card, and then you might as well just swipe it anyways.

Eh? If you only have one PP-enabled card in your wallet, all you have to do (and all I've ever done with my Blue) is hold your wallet to the sensor. I keep the blue on the outside of the card stack to aid in recognition.

I'm not too worried about the RFID tag myself since there are tons of other, far easier methods to steal credit cards.
Actually I think that this is a relatively easy way of stealing the information. Moreover, it's a much better way of doing it, since other means (such as waiters writing down credit card numbers) open you up to a lot of risk of detection, whereas it would be nearly impossible for anyone to connect you to this crime.

Those of you who are concerned about having the RFID chip should run a search in Travel Saftey & Security. The issue of passports with these chips has been discussed, as well as methods of disabling RFID chips. One such way is simply hitting the chip with a hammer a couple of times; you can then test the card at an ExpressPay location.

If the reader detects two cards, it is supposed to not charge either one. In practice, if you hold up two cards that's what happens most of the time. But sometimes the reader can only communicate with one card, and that's the one that will be charged!
And if you're lucky it will read a company ID card or other such non-credit card RFID-enabled card and charge that!

And if you're lucky it will read a company ID card or other such non-credit card RFID-enabled card and charge that!
You're not the least bit serious, are ya?

You're not the least bit serious, are ya?
Sure I am, if it results in a free pack of gum from 7-11!

Ah yes, they can disable it on the backend so ExpressPay transactions will be declined.

But that doesn't keep the chip in the card from calling out my name and account number to anyone with a reader. Perhaps many people won't be bothered by that fact, but it bothers me. I should be able to ask for a card with no chip instead of having Amex tell me to "take it or leave it."

Doesn't bother me one bit. I don't understand the paranoia that seems to be associated with new technology. There haven't been any cases I am aware of where the chips embedded in these cards have been the cause of any credit card fraud or identity theft. I am sure when Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, a lot of people were afraid to use it, too.

No! Some properties are introducing self service check-in, which may permit me to realize a dream - a stay in which I never speak to any member of the hotel staff.

Funny, I realize that dream several times a year at Hilton, but not SPG. Last time was at the New York Hilton, where I placed my chip-free credit card in a kiosk at the hotel, got my room key from the machine and the machine encoded it and spit out a free breakfast coupon along with my room number. Checked out 2 days later at the kiosk. NEVER spoke to any staff member during my whole stay.

Doesn't bother me one bit. I don't understand the paranoia that seems to be associated with new technology. There haven't been any cases I am aware of where the chips embedded in these cards have been the cause of any credit card fraud or identity theft. I am sure when Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, a lot of people were afraid to use it, too.
Just because you aren't aware of any cases doesn't mean that it doesn't or will not happen. The ability to secretly and easily collect credit card data is very valuable.

People's fears about the phone have come true. It's used for all kinds of identity theft, harassment, social engineering and all kinds of other attacks. That doesn't mean that it should be discarded, but it does mean that it's reasonable to take some countermeasures.

People's fears about the phone have come true. It's used for all kinds of identity theft, harassment, social engineering and all kinds of other attacks. That doesn't mean that it should be discarded, but it does mean that it's reasonable to take some countermeasures.

True. But I don't think it is any more reasonable to take a hammer and smash the chip embedded in my card than to smash my telephone with a hammer.

True. But I don't think it is any more reasonable to take a hammer and smash the chip embedded in my card than to smash my telephone with a hammer.
Smashing the phone renders it useless, whereas smashing the chip only disables that particular function. It's all academic to me because I don't have any credit cards with chips in them in the first place, which seems to work out fine.