Southwest Rapid Rewards - OAK Term 2 Is it Always a Madhouse Now?

Yesterday, Sun. arrived at terminal 2 at 8:15 a.m.for daughter's 9:50 PHX flight. She missed the flight due to having to stand in line outside for 1.5 hours to check luggage. The place was total chaos, I've never seen so many mad, rude people (including WN employees). She was placed on standby and then told to stand in another customer service line (gate 10) when, after 30 min., there were still 30 people in front of her. Standby flight was starting to board (gate 17) and she had to make the decision to remain in line as rudely instructed & risk missing the standby flight or face the wrath of everyone to go up to the front to ask if she cleared; she chose the latter and did get on (after being yelled at by another passenger badly enough to make her cry). Pilot made an announcement that if you missed your flight it was your own fault, as you need to arrive to the airport 3 hours ahead of time now. Funny, the other airlines in terminal 2 seemed to be functioning quite pleasantly and efficiently. When I picked her up Thursday at 9 p.m., the luggage took exactly 1 hour to come down the shute.

I know, don't check luggage but she "needs" her beauty paraphernalia. Is this a sign of what to expect on WN now at OAK or just a unfortunate day?

On Monday mornings, OAK security lines are 20 minutes or so, and that's a pretty long line, all the way into baggage claim. According to the TSA web site http://waittime.tsa.dhs.gov/index.html 20 minutes is about the max for Sundays too.

Monday morning the checked bag line is really short, and I have never experienced a bag check line longer than 25 minutes with Southwest. I hear that Vegas on Sundays can be that bad, though. For OAK, 1.5 hours sounds mighty unusual, especially on a Sunday morning.

Luggage arriving at OAK seems to have been a problem lately. Waiting 1 hour indicates that staffing has not yet caught up to the higher checked bag count post 8/10/06. That's disappointing.

The silver lining about the new carry-on restrictions is the near elimination of gate-checking your carry-ons.

I experienced a 45-minute wait to go through OAK Terminal 2 security at 6am on a Friday morning.

Did she check bags with the Skycaps or inside with the kiosks (or regular counters)? 1.5 hours seems really long for checking bags with SWA at Oakland. Never have I experienced that before.

Even during peak holiday times, I've never had to wait 1.5 hours to check baggage at OAK. On my closest calls, I've arrived at the airport within an hour of the flight, stood in long lines, and barely made it onboard- but I've made it onboard every time. Now waiting 1.5 hours for baggage to arrive at OAK...that's possible! :D :p

WN suggests 2 hr for OAK. It has been that way for quite some time now. It has been on their website for sometime.

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/suggested_arrival.html

I have the misfortune of needing to fly WN to/from OAK quite frequently, and am doing my best to avoid it whenever possible. Besides the often-rude WN staff, the terminal is perpetually filthy (WAY before construction started, so that's no excuse) and baggage claim takes much too long. This is one zoo to be avoided if possible.

Doesn't apply to OP directly, but if you do an online checkin, could you enter via T1 and walk over to the gate? I've never actually tried it, but it seems like it should be possible, esp since WN has flights there (like every Burbank flight I've been on :p )

I don't remember there being other airlines in T2 other than WN. Has a new one moved in? (I haven't been in there since the opening of the new area)

You can indeed enter T1 with a WN boarding pass. Many of the RNO and LAS flights leave from the last few gates at T1. This might change with the renovation at OAK, but I hope not. Even if you do not check in online, Southwest has an automated ticket machine to the left of the terminal door immediately preceeding the T1 security check point. If you are elite on some other airline, you might even be able to sneak in the fast line.

Doesn't apply to OP directly, but if you do an online checkin, could you enter via T1 and walk over to the gate?

I haven't tried this since I always have bags to check, but I've flown other airlines out of T1 recently and even though the lines have been pretty long, they've had TSA agents walking around telling people with departures less than ~30 minutes away to go into an express line. This seems to work pretty well (let's just say it's saved my a$$ twice, including this morning!) and it would be nice if T2 implemented it. Does anyone know who sets such a policy? Is it TSA or the airlines? I've seen both TSA and WN agents walking the lines at T2 but never redirecting people based on departure times. Anyway, there's a WN kiosk in T1 for those that want to give this a try but can't print their BP at home.

[QUOTE=shiwala]I haven't tried this since I always have bags to check...[QUOTE]I'm flying out of OAK on an upcoming Sunday. Any slick tricks if you have to check bags?

WN's the only airline in Term 2. We'd already done check-in online They would not allow you to go inside to check bags on this particular day. There were 2 lines outside, one in each direction, both just as long. Turns out one line lead to inside (where there were more lines) and the other lead to the outside Skycap. While she was in line, I was reticketing a future AA int'l ticket in Term 1. At the time, I wondered if you could go through the security line in Term 1 instead (assuming no bags to check). Good to read from those of you in the know that this is an option for future referrence. She was on the same flight the Sunday two weeks prior, and at that time the security line in Term 2 was a nightmare--bag check was okay.

I suggested she unload her suitcase of the non-carry-on items, take out stuff to reduce the breadth, and I'd mail it all to her. She said no way, she's not unpacking on the curb in front of everyone. goingsomewhere, you are correct about the 2 hr check-in time; we thought it was 1.5 hrs until I looked when I got home. But the pilot announcing to allow 3 hours leads me to believe things aren't going to get better anytime soon and this experience could be the norm.

I guess my message is just a heads-up for those of you flying WN out of OAK. From now on we'll consider flying US/Amer West if the price is anywhere close to WN.

Unless you are flying on a RR ticket (which are getting to be impossible to use) I would recomend using another airline and flying into SFO instead.

I go to SF at least once a year and used to us WN to fly DTW to OAK when RR tickets were easy to use. Last time I flew out on a 6:15 A.M. flight on a Monday and got to the airport at 4:30 a.m. and almost missed my flight due to the long lines to check bags and then security was line up behind to baggage claim. Fortunately at security they were allowing people that had less then a half hour to go through the crew line or I would have missed my flight.

The next time I took NW to SFO and will fly out of SFO from now on. With Oakland if you dont have a car and have an early flight you are stuck trying to find a cab from the collossieum BART and you are usually stuck paying one of those "gypsy" cabs to take you to the airport. SFO Bart stops right there and you don't have to deal with the airbart and making sure it is running. The lines are also a lot shorter at SFO and there are more places to eat.

Flying next tues, midday, will report results.

To those interested, YES, you can go through T1 with a WN BP. This may/will change when the new concourse in T2 is operational (should be soon). WN will move into those gates and will relinquish the gates in T1. I don't know if they'll close the connection, but I sure hope not.

I'm flying out of OAK on an upcoming Sunday. Any slick tricks if you have to check bags?

Well, hopefully you have an electronic ticket so you can use the kiosks for check-in. The only tip I can give you is go for the security line(s) closest to the plywood "fence" surrounding the old baggage claim- the line terminates near the bathroom. This line usually moves faster than the three main lines that terminate in front of the electronic doors (don't tell anyone about that, though! :cool: )

This line usually moves faster than the three main lines that terminate in front of the electronic doors (don't tell anyone about that, though! :cool: )

I believe that that rightmost line (closest to the roadway) moves the fastest, because it often feeds into more than one screening station. The TSA wait time web site will give you a good idea of whether T1 or T2 is a better choice for your particular flight time. For early in the morning I'm partial to T2.

Flying next tues, midday, will report results.

To those interested, YES, you can go through T1 with a WN BP. This may/will change when the new concourse in T2 is operational (should be soon). WN will move into those gates and will relinquish the gates in T1. I don't know if they'll close the connection, but I sure hope not.

Good luck next week!

I doubt they'll close the connection, only because WN has a partnership with ATA Airlines. I don't think they could really squeeze another gate in there without that plane interfereing.... could they?

I arrived at OAK a few weeks ago into Terminal 2. The whole place is really torn up due to construction, but the baggage arrived fairly quickly (I walked out of the terminal with my bag within 20 minutes of arrival).

Regarding Terminal 2, they are building a 6 gate extension, not trying to squeeze in more gates to the existing space. The Southwest OAK station currently has an incredibly high rate of gate utilization (something like 140 flights a day out of 11 gates).

One of the problems with WN and the Bay Area, the quality of people you can hire at the airport is lower than lets say SLC. For example, In-n-Out burger, about 2 miles from SJC, pays $10/hour (plus meals). SJC/OAK have very high turnover. Sometimes they even have to bring people in from other airports to work.

Not to discount the good workers at these airports, but we have had bad experiences in SJC and OAK with airport workers. We even wrote a letter once.

Regardless, imho, the only way to fix SJC/OAK delays is to hire more people which means they need to raise the wages they pay.

The lines are also a lot shorter at SFO

Not if you are flying United economy as a non-elite. The United non-elite economy checkin line at SFO is typically about an hour long. Non-United airlines at SFO are somewhat better in terms of getting through lines (SFO is a major hub for United, so there are always large numbers of people in the United lines).

My experience with security is that OAK is usually a bit faster than SFO, but not significantly or consistently enough for that to matter. Regarding OAK security, yes the two terminals as OAK are connected behind security.

For early in the morning I'm partial to T2.Can I do a BP reprint and check bags with WN in T2?

Can I do a BP reprint and check bags with WN in T2?

Yes. T2 is all WN.

Not if you are flying United economy as a non-elite. The United non-elite economy checkin line at SFO is typically about an hour long. Non-United airlines at SFO are somewhat better in terms of getting through lines (SFO is a major hub for United, so there are always large numbers of people in the United lines).

My experience with security is that OAK is usually a bit faster than SFO, but not significantly or consistently enough for that to matter. Regarding OAK security, yes the two terminals as OAK are connected behind security.

I wouldn't say the non-elite checkin line is "typically" about an hour long for UA at SFO. I sometimes use that line because there is no wait (compared to the elite line)

You really have to check the TSA website to get accurate info on the wait at OAK. Of course, that doesn't cover baggage check (something I never do, though that will likely change with an infant ;)) but it should be accurate as to the security checkpoints.

As a general rule, 6-8am is not good in T-1 which houses all the other airlines because they all have early morning departures to their hubs to meet other connections. So T-2 - despite the lines - is actually quicker than T-1 at these times.

As the morning progresses, the flight are more spread out, and the activity really slows after noon. At those times I generally use T-1 as I can avoid the uncertainty of the T-2 wait. Plus, as noted above, some WN flights (particularly LAS) tend to depart from T-1 so you'll actually have a shorter walk :)

RE: Sunday question (below): We often return on Sunday afternoon/eve and the TSA lines are always bad. Particularly after Raiders games (yes a lot of fans fly in for the games from LA and elsewhere!) Used to be real mess with the TSA line wrapping thru the baggage area which was packed with arrivals. Plus did I mention the traffic as you approach the terminals? Most days are bad at OAK but Sundays are a special form of torture ... :mad:

I guess it will be nice to have all the WN flights in one terminal but unless they improve the wait times I hope they keep the walkway open between T-1 and T-2. It would definitely be a disincentive to fly WN if I was looking at a mandatory 1 hour wait at certain times. :(

Hello-

Flying SAN-OAK today and flying back on Sunday late afternoon. Never been to OAK. Anything ridiculous I should expect or be aware of?

We are not checking bags.

Check the gate location before heading out there. Since you're not checking bags, if your flight leaves from T1 (gate 1x), then you can go straight to T1 with your boarding pass without having to go to T2 and then back to T1. Otherwise, go to T2.

I flew OAK-LAX-OAK on Tuesday and it was EXTREMELY quiet. The loads were <1/3 full both planes, no security lines, no madhouse.

Check the gate location before heading out there. Since you're not checking bags, if your flight leaves from T1 (gate 1x), then you can go straight to T1 with your boarding pass without having to go to T2 and then back to T1. Otherwise, go to T2.

I flew OAK-LAX-OAK on Tuesday and it was EXTREMELY quiet. The loads were <1/3 full both planes, no security lines, no madhouse.

First of all, thanks.

Secondly, on Sunday, I am going to have to print my boarding pass at the airport because I am on my way home and will be coming from the hotel... unless the hotel has a business center... hmmm :)

So, it sounds like it is a VERY good idea to get your boarding pass printed before heading to OAK, huh?

How long security should I expect on this Sunday around 5? My flight is at 6:10pm.

Secondly, on Sunday, I am going to have to print my boarding pass at the airport because I am on my way home and will be coming from the hotel... unless the hotel has a business center... hmmm :)



Or, unless you have an internet capable wireless device . .

mobile.southwest.com

more information at http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/wireless_access.html

Or, unless you have an internet capable wireless device . .

mobile.southwest.com

more information at http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/wireless_access.html

I don have an internet ready device and will definitely CHECK IN on Saturday, BUT printing it is a totally different item.

I don have an internet ready device and will definitely CHECK IN on Saturday, BUT printing it is a totally different item.

You just need to stop at a kiosk and print your BP there. Should take less than a minute. You will retain the same letter you got for your original check-in.

Well, hopefully you have an electronic ticket so you can use the kiosks for check-in. The only tip I can give you is go for the security line(s) closest to the plywood "fence" surrounding the old baggage claim- the line terminates near the bathroom. This line usually moves faster than the three main lines that terminate in front of the electronic doors (don't tell anyone about that, though! :cool: )

I found more variability in security line waiting time at OAK than most other airport I fly to. Typically 20 - 30 minutes at peak periods, but frequenty there is no wait. But 30 minute plus waits are also not uncommon. Seems a function of TSA staffing as sometimes there's no pattern to it.

But watch out for other annoyances as OAK "improves" (construction). For example, they previously had fully enclosed shelters available while waiting for rental car or parking shuttles. Those are gone (as winter approaches). Although we hear the food vendors will be changing, they are still the same BAD expensive ones they've had for years (T-2 particularly bad). The airport-operated parking shuttles run on a schedule for the convenience of the drivers. The T-2 access to the street now requires you to walk to the far end of T-2 (rather than the old central location in T-2 in the middle of the gates). After many months of construction, the old crowded T-2 luggage return area with just 3 carousels has been replaced by the long awaited new area.......also with just 3 carousels. How about the smallest/fewest bathrooms of any major airport (T-2)? Or the fact that the "new and improved" curb in the shuttle area is too narrow for people to pass through with luggage without hitting people waiting for the rental car shuttles. Have the architects ever been to an airport before?

OAK motto: "We never stop thinking of ways to make your travel experience as annoying as possible". :

Update:

Well, arrived at the airport at 4:15 for our 6:10 flight. Went inside T2, printed boarding passes at Kiosk and then got in line. 20-25 mins later, got to security and were at our gate at 5pm.

Not too bad considering we gave ourselves so much time, but if we were rushing... forget it!

I flew from OAK yesterday on a 1:40 flight. Made it through security in just 15 minutes, but the terminals were a zoo.

Flew through OAK on Friday and had lots of fun making my way through T2 - crowds of people, construction lights, no room to move. This was my first time at OAK in many years and I not planning to go through there again if I can help it.

Bob

The current configuration of T2 for arriving passengers is as bad as any I have seen in 20 years. I believe the old baggage claim area is being converted to connect the concourse with the street level. At least I hope so.

Originated in OAK yesterday afternoon. We arrived early expecting the worst, but I guess just got lucky. Ticket counter and security in terminal 2 were a breeze, at noon on a Sunday! We did wait 40 minutes last Thursday for our bags in OAK though. Arrived in SAT last night and the bags were on the carousel before we could even get there. Go figure.

Considering that OAK T1 opened in 1962, 44 years ago, and T2 in the early 80's, 20+ years ago, it's no wonder the place is falling apart. I have flown about 75 segments on WN this year, and a smaller number on CO and AS, all out of OAK, and to call the whole place a dump would be kind. The new road ways/shelters in front of the terminal are mystifying to me, as no one seems to understand what purpose they are going to serve, and the earlier comment in this thread about the width of the sidewalks is valid.

During peak hours/days, the check in scene at WN is generally bad, allowing three hours is usually a good bet. At other times, you move through quickly, however the waiting areas, particulalry in T2, are awful, there has been no ceiling in the building for almost a year, air conditioning in the summer was non-existant, and the new luggage claim area, while nice looking, didn't expand over the old one, and the waits for bags are long - probably for the reasons sited here, that WN, like other carriers, still hasn't compensated for the volume of checked luggage post 8/10 with their ground handlers. And while anecdotal, I find the OAK WN employees the least friendly of any WN staff nationally, which may be a symptom of their shabby working environment.

All that being said, if you live in the East Bay, as I do, you can't beat the location, and this time of year, when the rain comes, SFO gets really backed up and unreliable - there is no near term solution to that problem, given the environmental restrictions of expanding the runways at SFO, OAK rarely has the weather delays that SFO does. In fair weather months, however, there are times when flying into SF, and hopping right on BART, seem like a vialble alternative to the shabby conditions at OAK>

...there has been no ceiling in the building for almost a year.

What, you mean this (http://home.comcast.net/~shiwala/blog/oakland.jpg) isn't considered a ceiling?! :D

What, you mean this (http://home.comcast.net/~shiwala/blog/oakland.jpg) isn't considered a ceiling?! :D

Its a roof...and not a very good one.

That picture brings back great memories of my visit. My sympathy to those who must use this terminal often.

Bob

The big white tube in that pic was a new development a while back and seemed to run the whole length of the terminal. It cracked me up because it looked real sturdy at the time. :D About a month later, I walked in to find water dripping from the tube making a large puddle on the carpet, yet no maintenance people were doing anything about it (come on folks, put some cones around it or something!).

OAK is a certifiable dump. The gate lounges are gross and grossly overcrowded, and I'm pretty sure the USAir/HP gate is using a vintage 1962 jetway. T1 is a time warp.

They need to (QUICKLY!) build out the Master Plan - which involves demolishing the old UA MX hangar and building a new terminal on its site.

OAK is a certifiable dump. The gate lounges are gross and grossly overcrowded, and I'm pretty sure the USAir/HP gate is using a vintage 1962 jetway. T1 is a time warp.

They need to (QUICKLY!) build out the Master Plan - which involves demolishing the old UA MX hangar and building a new terminal on its site.

OAK has some of the lowest airport fees (what they charge the airlines) in the nation. If keeping OAK crowded and outdated is what it takes to keep my ticket prices this low ($49.30 all-in most recently), then I'm happy with things as they are.

Why would I want to spend $10 more per trip for a better terminal when I'm only there for half an hour? Let's not forget that it's passengers who pay for these monuments to politicians' ego.

I can't remember the last time I was only in an airport terminal for only half an hour.

I can't remember the last time I was only in an airport terminal for only half an hour.

I do it all the time. I plan to arrive at the terminal 30 to 50 minutes before flight time, depending only on the expected length of the security line. This is for high-frequency routes where the backup flight is typically only half an hour later.

As I have said, high frequencies favor Southwest because they save time for business travelers. This example illustrates that point.

I don't quite know why you're trying to create a WN-vs.-everyone-else deal here. My point was, OAK is a pit no matter what airline you fly - WN, US, UA, DL, B6, etc. I didn't intend to turn this thread into a pissing match over the best airline for business travelers.

Anyway, everyone knows the best airline is the one you DON'T fly frequently :p :D

I do it all the time. I plan to arrive at the terminal 30 to 50 minutes before flight time, depending only on the expected length of the security line. This is for high-frequency routes where the backup flight is typically only half an hour later.

As I have said, high frequencies favor Southwest because they save time for business travelers. This example illustrates that point.

I have to second this, I have been doing the same thing and am reluctantly becoming a fan of Southwest for my OAK to other parts of CA commuter hops.

My point was, OAK is a pit no matter what airline you fly - WN, US, UA, DL, B6, etc.

Terminal 2 is significantly more cramped than Terminal 1. If you are flying another airline from OAK (as I have done several times this year) you will get the best that OAK has to offer. ;)

My point is that when I'm paying for travel I prefer not to pay for 60-foot ceilings and artwork. Cheap and cramped is fine, since I'm just passing through and not living there. Tom Hanks in "The Terminal" would get his money's worth from a new terminal, but I wouldn't.

I just read that four of the new gates open tomorrow, and at the same time four of the old gates in terminal 2 will close for renovation.

Ed

I just read that four of the new gates open tomorrow, and at the same time four of the old gates in terminal 2 will close for renovation.

Ed

http://kcbs.com/pages/125557.php

Oakland’s airport has added four new gates, just in time for the busy holiday season. It’s part of a $300 million construction project that is set for completion in 2008.

(snip)

Three more gates are due to open in the spring.

oak is certainly a pit but no worse than many others in the US.

[removed references to SFO T-1 which is undergoing a nice makeover and now has some wonderful food options]

http://kcbs.com/pages/125557.php

Oakland’s airport has added four new gates, just in time for the busy holiday season. It’s part of a $300 million construction project that is set for completion in 2008.

(snip)

Three more gates are due to open in the spring.

Yup... I was about to post this. If it wasn't for this, I'd be in OAK touring the airport and the field today. Oh well.

On the far horizon is another terminal (code name Terminal A) which is where, most likely, WN will move all of its ops once it's built by 2012 (?). Things are still a long way off and there is a lot of uncertainty.

oak is certainly a pit but no worse than many others in the US and locally SFO T-1 (US) comes to mind.

Yup. T1 SFO is a bit of a dump. It appears they are renovating in the entry lobby and baggage claim area, but so far nothing in the gate area. I'm continuing to avoid OAK for the time being. It's just such a zoo with long lines and construction. My main issue with SFO is the maddening ATC delays. I'm glad my most convenient airport is SJC. Even though Terminal A isn't very well designed, the lines are usually not that bad and the flights get out on-time (if late, it's usually a problem somewhere else).

I got to see the new gates this morning...they look great compared to the old gates (although it looks like a ceiling is finally beginning to take form!) ^ Very bright colors and lighting in the new gate area. I only had a few complaints:

1) The new gates are pretty far away, especially if you have to go to Gate 32. It almost seems further than having to go to the WN gates in T1.

2) I only saw one check-in podium to handle Gates 29-32. At least they have three computer terminals for the gate agents to use. This morning I counted 9 WN employees buzzing around the podium (everyone came to check out the new gate area I guess?).

3) Money was spent to put up nice, big flat screens above each boarding area announcing the upcoming flight info but the check-in podium had one of those ghetto sliding number/city sign thingies. It did provide some entertainment this morning as it seemed a gate agent was adjusting it every 10 minutes and they ran out of a few numbers at one point. Maybe it will be upgraded soon.

As for the "madhouse", my flight was at 7:35am. I got off the PCA bus at 5:50am and was sitting in the gate 29 area by 6:10am.

http://kcbs.com/pages/125557.php

Oakland’s airport has added four new gates, just in time for the busy holiday season. It’s part of a $300 million construction project that is set for completion in 2008.

(snip)

Three more gates are due to open in the spring.


However, they are closing 4 gates for renovation in the "old" section of Terminal 2 during the renovations, so gate capacity won't increase for the time being.

However, they are closing 4 gates for renovation in the "old" section of Terminal 2 during the renovations, so gate capacity won't increase for the time being.

As of this evening those four T1 gates are still in use by WN along with the new T2 gates.

As of this evening those four T1 gates are still in use by WN along with the new T2 gates.

I wasn't referring to T1 gates. However, gates 23-26 are closed for (long overdue) refurbishments.

I wasn't referring to T1 gates. However, gates 23-26 are closed for (long overdue) refurbishments.

New gates are open, big improvement over the rest of the place, but still no reasonable catering/services of any sort on the new concourse, and the rest of the place is still a dump. 10 minute taxi ride home can't be beat, however....

Information on OAK's Airport Development Program can be found here: http://www.oaklandairport.com/airport_construction_airport_dev_program.shtml

A woman I know took over OAK's capital improvement program a few years back. Shortly thereafter, T1 saw the much-needed bathroom renovations (with still more needed) and the addition of 360-degree burrito (or is it High Tech Burrito?). The terminals still look pretty sketchy, though--and the relatively high passenger use makes it difficult to maintain them often enough. I remember seeing United's station manager in the bathroom pointing out maintenance problems to Port of Oakland management staff (in quite a polite way).

The ADP has also been in flux--for example, it originally called for a two-level roadway in front of the terminals, and a multi-level parking structure to replace the current surface parking lot. Both of those have been (at least currently) deleted from the plans. There are also improvements like the addition of the Mexicana check-in counters adjacent to the security area in T1. Separately, Port of Oakland staff have held meetings to discuss the potential future addition of a 2nd runway to OAK, but the possibility of that likely requires significant Bay fill and depends on numerous environmental clearances and significant political muscle-flexing.

It strikes me that the capital facilities were also designed for a time when planes were flying much less full--60-65%, rather than 80%. So no matter where one is in OAK, it's going to seem pretty crowded.

Also, while I don't know if it's solely my experience, bag wait times (when arriving) have seemed long since about 1999 or 2000, especially given OAK's small size. Whether WN, AA, America West, or JetBlue, it's been unusual to have received a bag in less than half an hour after arrival--even when arriving on, for example, the last flight of the evening with all other flights from that airline in.

-Hayden

It strikes me that the capital facilities were also designed for a time when planes were flying much less full--60-65%, rather than 80%. So no matter where one is in OAK, it's going to seem pretty crowded.

Also, while I don't know if it's solely my experience, bag wait times (when arriving) have seemed long since about 1999 or 2000, especially given OAK's small size. Whether WN, AA, America West, or JetBlue, it's been unusual to have received a bag in less than half an hour after arrival--even when arriving on, for example, the last flight of the evening with all other flights from that airline in.

-Hayden

Bag wait time was actually pretty good for a Monday p.m. WN arrival in mid-December. The bags were on the carosol before we got there - less than 15min! ^

OAK was pleasantly uncrowded Sunday morning 12/31. TSA website est. up to 1/2 hour wait time, but actual wait time was <10min.

Pleased to report that the salad bar next to RoundTable (near gate 22) also sells Peet's coffee, eliminating the need to hike to the new gates :cool: However, be forewarned starbucks by the new gates only has a limited menu.

Addendum: Yesterday bags delivered within 15 min of arrival. Very impressive. Only downside is the loooong hike from the end of T1 to the baggage claim at the other end of T2. But at least the security line no longer weaves through the same area.

OAK seems to be improving IMO but only by baby steps. :p

Information on OAK's Airport Development Program can be found here: http://www.oaklandairport.com/airport_construction_airport_dev_program.shtml

-Hayden

I've looked at OAK's "master plan" a number of times, and it looks as though they've added some wild proposals concerning the new terminal. While some look very expensive to build, anything is better than what they have now.

I like proposals 1A/B, 2F as they would keep premium/intl airline ops physically seperate from WN's mayhem.

But as it stands today. OAK is still a joke.

It strikes me that the capital facilities were also designed for a time when planes were flying much less full--60-65%, rather than 80%.

The issue is turn time rather than load factor. Southwest has at least twice the number of flights per gate per day, thus twice the number of people per day. That's a big change from what the facility was designed for. When delays accumulate, the gate areas become terribly crowded.

I like proposals 1A/B, 2F as they would keep premium/intl airline ops physically seperate from WN's mayhem.

Physical separation of terminals is not a good thing for connecting passengers, especially if they must exit and re-enter the secured area.

Physical separation of terminals is not a good thing for connecting passengers, especially if they must exit and re-enter the secured area.

I doubt transfers will be an issue. If those proposals go through, I see WN taking the current terminals and the other airlines moving the the new shiny gates. I know that the airlines have been asking OAK for premium security lines and lounge space for years. Any new terminal design will surely take these requests into consideration.

I can't seen OAK serving as a serious connection point especially between WN and other airlines.

I can't seen OAK serving as a serious connection point especially between WN and other airlines.

Connecting service already exists at OAK between WN and TZ. Who knows what the future holds for other carriers as well?

I read the stories about OAK and wonder,

at IND (Indianapolis) there is a nice, clean terminal building, security with lines less than 5 min usually, free 30 min parking 3 min walk in parking garage,
food at decent prices, gates are usually uncrowded, baggage claim normally less than 15 min., very little congestion off Interstate that take 2-3 min to get to terminal, etc....

and they are already building a brand NEW airport to be open in 2008!

I doubt transfers will be an issue. If those proposals go through, I see WN taking the current terminals and the other airlines moving the the new shiny gates. I know that the airlines have been asking OAK for premium security lines and lounge space for years. Any new terminal design will surely take these requests into consideration.

I can't seen OAK serving as a serious connection point especially between WN and other airlines.

Even if there are close to zero WN <-> non-WN connecting passengers, what if WN is larger or smaller than the old terminals?

If WN needs some gates in the new terminal, then WN connecting passengers would have to go between terminals. If WN is smaller than the old terminal, then some other airline will probably end up in the old terminal, which would mean that passengers connecting between it and the airlines in the new terminal would have to go between terminals.

It might not be that much of a problem (for WN<->WN and non-WN<->non-WN connections, or any connection without checked baggage) if there is a connection behind security. But having to exit and re-enter security when there is not otherwise a reason to require that just means more missed connections.

It kills me to post this after referring people to the TSA website for wait times, but DO NOT TRUST THAT INFO!

According to the website, the wait times for Terminal 2 on Sunday evenings is approx. 3 minutes. NOT! My mother-in-law arraive at OAK last Sunday (not a holiday) and found a .5-1 hour line that was out the door. Fortunately someone told her to walk over to T-1 where there was no line (and as it turned out her flight was delayed an hour).

Two good reasons to avoid flying Sunday nights (wait times and delays)

mom flew out of oak yesterday at 12noon ( a tues)

WN employees said that t-2 security was closed please go to term one

Never heard of that? New idea? Close for lunch?:confused:

WN employees said that t-2 security was closed please go to term one

Possibly a Code Bravo (security breach), forcing evacuation and re-screening.

not a breach or they would have to dump both terminals

just standard operationg procedure

"go to terminal one for security, we are closed here"

I think what you saw yesterday was the switchover to the new security checkpoint.

As of this morning, T2 security is now operating out of the new security checkpoint located where the old baggage claim was before. Went through it today. Pretty nice. They have 8 lanes, all of which were working (1 for SSSS, 1 for pilots/crew). The line was all the way back to the new baggage claim, but moved pretty quickly, took less than 10 minutes during morning rush hour. Now if WN could only keep the gate numbers straight. My flight was departing from T2, or so said the monitor before the security checkpoint. Once past the checkpoint, I found that the flight went out of T1.

Another first on WN - coming back from LAX tonight we had to wait for about 15 minutes until our gate (#31) opened up... we were early, but only about 10 minutes early.

Another first on WN - coming back from LAX tonight we had to wait for about 15 minutes until our gate (#31) opened up... we were early, but only about 10 minutes early.

This has been an issue for me on OAK flights a few times, but usually towards the end of the evening, where an aircraft parked for the night has been left at the gate assigned to my arriving flight. I usually put it down to being one of the OAK mysteries, such as why bags frequently take such a long time to arrive relative to the airport's small size, or why people pay $15/day to park in economy when off-airport lots essentially as close charge $10/day or less.

-Hayden

For a 740am flight monday morning at OAK
what do most of you suggest for arrival times to check bags
and get to gate

Thanks

For a 740am flight monday morning at OAK
what do most of you suggest for arrival times to check bags
and get to gate

Thanks

That's about the worst possible flight time. Allow 35 minutes for X-ray (might be only 20) plus 20 minutes for bags (might be as low as 5). Know what the next flight time is. If it's within an hour and 8 seats are available, feel free to cut your arrival close.

monday 2/5 620am arrival at Term 2

bag check 5 min

security 3 min

the new security area allows for more movement

Just to follow up with an update on OAK:

(1) Pleasantly surprised to find No line at OAK terminal 1 at 7:30am Wed. ^ WN is still using T-1 gates. Much worse at T-2.

(2) Took about 30 min for bags to arrive late Sunday night :td:

(3) Thanks to continuing roadway construction near the terminals, OAK traffic was a mess on Sunday night - 10 min backup @ 11:30pm Sunday night. :mad: Naturally, there were about a dozen airport cops harassing drivers at the curb, but only one directing traffic. :rolleyes: Until this situation is resolved, I won't be using OAK at that time.

Any new updates? I'll be flying from OAK at 8 a.m. next Sunday. I'll have bags to check. What time would you guys recommend to arrive?

Any new updates? I'll be flying from OAK at 8 a.m. next Sunday. I'll have bags to check. What time would you guys recommend to arrive?

Which airline?

Last time I flew from OAK it was on UA. The UA checkin line there was 5 minutes, instead of 50 minutes at SFO.

Which airline?

WN

Any new updates? I'll be flying from OAK at 8 a.m. next Sunday. I'll have bags to check. What time would you guys recommend to arrive?

Line to check bags outside terminal with skycap (still free at WN) could be 10min., though early a.m. probably not too bad.

The line inside will look bad but usually moves pretty fast, probably 10-20min.

If you want a stress free experience, I would arrive by 6:30am, which will leave you an hour to get to the gate before boarding begins - more than enough time even if lines are bad. If you like to cut it close, or don't care about boarding with the A group, you should get there by 7am at the latest.

Additional Update on OAK

oak T-2 is in the midst of an extensive renovation which has already brought a starbucks, peets coffee and apparently will feature some edible food rather than the horrid cafeteria food. T-1 could also use a bit of work particularly a coffee place though at least one can pick up some decent carryon chow from burrito. Looking forward to having all WN flights consolidated in one terminal as it is a hassle to figure out which entrance to use.

Line to check bags outside terminal with skycap (still free at WN) could be 10min., though early a.m. probably not too bad.

The line inside will look bad but usually moves pretty fast, probably 10-20min.

If you want a stress free experience, I would arrive by 6:30am, which will leave you an hour to get to the gate before boarding begins - more than enough time even if lines are bad. If you like to cut it close, or don't care about boarding with the A group, you should get there by 7am at the latest.

Additional Update on OAK

oak T-2 is in the midst of an extensive renovation which has already brought a starbucks, peets coffee and apparently will feature some edible food rather than the horrid cafeteria food. T-1 could also use a bit of work particularly a coffee place though at least one can pick up some decent carryon chow from burrito. Looking forward to having all WN flights consolidated in one terminal as it is a hassle to figure out which entrance to use.

I arrived at around 6:15 and there was no line at the counter or security. Better safe than sorry I guess. Terminal 2 was looking nice. In a way the renovation of OAK is making it look like ONT.

I haven't had a chance to use the new OAK concourse/terminal extension yet--just to walk around fairly late at night--but I was a bit surprised that the gate area designs weren't more obviously accomodating of Southwest's boarding process. I'm not sure what I expected--seats or benches in an A/B/C setup? Patterns in the terrazzo? Something strikingly innovative, or at least a bit different.

The concourse's overall design is clean and straightforward, but sadly on the same scale as the rest of OAK's concourses--Basic Outstation Airport--but with better bathrooms, perhaps reflecting the Port of Oakland's desire to have a consistent design theme, under a certain budget, without taking a chance on innovation.

The new gate waiting areas probably work as well as any at the airport. I comment only because when a large new public facility is built, I tend to hope that it may have some particular architectural interest, perhaps even with a nod towards the sublime. Well--perhaps that will be discovered in the years to come from what now seems pretty pedestrian.

-Hayden

There is a reason that San Francisco is consistently voted as one of the favorites cities to visit and Oakland is, well, Oakland ;)

The ongoing concourse renovations at SFO (and replacement of crappo cafeteria-type restaurants with good quality places) are a big plus, not to mention the wonderful design of the international terminal.

Interestingly, while Terminal 1's ramp is under renovation, both US and AA have moved their operations into Southwest gates in Terminal 2.

I flew AS out of OAK the other day and went over to the Southwest concourse. It has excellent views of the OAK approach path (for example, out of the California Pizza Kitchen seating area window) and San Francisco Bay to the south. Even better, this and the gate areas lack the sense of closeness/press of people that's present in the rest of the two terminals.

As with the older part of this terminal, lines from some of the gate waiting areas continue to snake out into the "hallway" area where people are walking. It looked like A and B lines fit okay into the larger gate areas, but the C lines wandered out into the terazzo area. Maybe good for pax/fares at the end of the day, assuming Southwest is renting gates on a per square foot basis.

US and AA do have the TB gates closest to Terminal A--areas known best for their poor air conditioning and limited seating areas. AA, at least, is only shipping 4 flights/day out of OAK (down from a high of about 14/day in 2002), so not a bad temporary location, unless you have to wait there on a hot day as a passenger.

-Hayden

Watch your timing at OAK

Dropped someone today 7/30 at 1000am for a 1200noon flight
Baggage check inside was 45 min and outside the line went back to baggage claim.

The WN staff wouldnt let people use the ticketing line
to check bags and many of those employees were doing nothing.
You would think WN would send customers that way to move things along ?;)
and be more efficient

This on a monday mid morning

Very early this morning the security line at T2 was past baggage claim and out the door. Nevertheless, I cleared security in about 16 minutes.

If you get to the gate too early there is a Regus Business Center at Gate 20 T2. Even better, you get 30 minutes of free use simply by showing your Admirals Club card.

Another check-in data point.

8:45 am Sunday morning. Bag check line is out the door and snakes down the sidewalk to just where the sidewalk turns. Time in line: 35 minutes. It's actually better to have a paper ticket or some sort of problem, as that line is both shorter and moves faster.

Long TSA line: 20 minutes.

Total time to check in and get to gate: 1 hour.

This is for a summer Sunday morning flying WN at OAK.

-Hayden

Copy of letter to Jim Ruppel (Southwest VP Customer Relations), also filing complaints with DOT etc.

Jim Ruppel
Vice President Customer Relations and Rapid Rewards
P.O. Box 36647
Dallas, Texas 75235-1647

Mr. Ruppel:

My family and I recently flew OAK-BWI on Southwest Airlines (confirmation #[private]) on Monday, August 20, 2007. Our experience was so bad that I have promised our family that we will never fly Southwest again.

Until now, I have been a big fan of Southwest: I have flown 47 segments in the last 12 months and our family submitted photos for the most recent LUV contest with a picture of us at the beach with a Southwest theme. But we will never subject ourselves to Southwest again.

Here is what happened:

 We arrived at OAK for our 9:15 a.m. flight at 7:30 a.m. after a delay returning a rental car. We already had checked in online, but had 4 bags to check (2 adults and a 2-year old). The line to check in baggage was – no exaggeration – about 2,000 people long. It extended out the door, down the length of the terminal, and beyond the terminal. I have digital photos of the line. Next to the line, the airport was paving the road, so we all had to breathe in the smell of hot tar.

 I called Southwest customer service from my cell phone to find out why there was such a long line and was told “it’s a Monday” and that this was normal. I also asked two Southwest representatives (including one from the corporate office) and was also told this was “a volume issue” and was “normal” for August. (Never mind the fact that Monday comes every week and August comes every year, it appears that Southwest does not plan for summer travel!)

 After an hour in line dragging our luggage and holding a crying 2-year old, we reached the ticket counter. We had about about 20 minutes until our flight would depart. At the counter, the ticket agent was Coleman Olander. Mr. Olander informed us that one our suitcases was 10 pounds over the limit and that we would be charged $25. He also told us we could move luggage from our suitcase into another suitcase I told him we didn’t have time to do this because we had spent an hour in line. Mr. Olander was polite but refused to waive the fee, and when I told him we would never fly Southwest again told us that was our decision to make.

 Another customer service agent asked him if we should be charged the baggage fee (I suspect there is some discretion here) and Mr. Olander confirmed. The second agent, Sunita Patel, ran the credit card charge but then offered to help us get through security quickly. She was much more helpful than Mr. Olander.

 With Ms. Patel’s help, we skipped the security line and then ran to the very last gate and boarded our flight. The door was closed almost immediately behind us. Without Ms. Patel’s assistance, we would have missed our flight.

 As we were standing waiting to board the flight, the gate agent walked by and, unprovoked, chided everyone standing in line by saying “3 hours ahead of the flight, people.” He wasn’t being humorous. I should note that Southwest’s website, as of today, still suggests that passengers arrive 2 hours in advance for OAK (see http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/suggested_arrival.html).

I realize we got to the airport 1.75 hours before our flight, about 15 minutes short of the customary 2 hours. But if waiting in line with 2,000 people is “normal for a Monday” why weren’t we told of this in advance? No calls, no emails warning of this. Charging the $25 baggage fee (receipt attached) and being chided for not being at the airport at 6:15 a.m. for a 9:15 a.m. flight was further insult.

We have been treated poorly in the past by the legacy carriers but I can assure you that they have have NEVER subjected us to a 2,000-person line and repeatedly told us that this was “normal” and simply “volume”. With many of the e-kiosks unused, it was simply unexcusable that Southwest did not have adequate staffing and did not warn passengers in advance.

I'd be interested in WN's response.

OAK horror stories are nothing new, and I think it's clear where the responsibility for an overweight suitcase lies. The extra 15 minutes recommended for check-in would have provided the necessary time to transfer some luggage, although I wonder how many people doing the same thing is what made the wait time longer in the first place.

I've been annoyed more than once when I had to stand in line behind someone repacking their bags at the counter while 300 people waited behind them - adding to the overall check-in time for everyone. Note for future travel: the bathroom scales at home/the hotel are usually accurate enough and save everyone a lot of wasted time at the airport. Not to mention $25 - or more.

pnut, sorry for your problems. I do not use OAK, and glad I do not.

Yes, WN was unreasonable IMHO. With such a line, they should not even take the time for the charge for 10 lbs over. And to suggest moving stuff from one bag to another - delaying the line another 2-3 minutes is crazy. After all, with such a line, if they can shave 1 min from ea. pax time, it would help. I also have seen long lines and the agents not "pushing hard' to get things processed. I know they need to be friendly, but answering a bunch of questions with a long, long line does not help their PR.

If it were me, I would have had my wife and baby use the BPs and go thru security right away -- and wait at a chair with cell phone in hand. After all, everyone is allowed 3 pieces of luggage to check.

I would image there were many who missed flight if it took 1 hour + to get to baggage check. (you were there 1 hr 45 min ahead).

I also think when lines are over 30 min., SWA should have a seperate line for anyone with children under 5 yrs. old (like the Pre Board). I do not have children - but understand special needs. What do they do for very elderly people who cannot stand that long??

In fact you are right, no line should be over 45 minutes unless real problems with delays/cancellations/etc. WN, get your act together.

I can feel your pain at OAK since the lines are SO unpredictable.
As well as baggage delivery at end of flight. Will it take 10 mins or 45 mins?
Will the arrival flight EVER be displayed on the carousel? This seems hit or miss as well necessitating observing which of the 3 carousels could the baggage be on. Then the extremely rude baggage personnel who continue to refuse to find out where bags are after 45 mins from arrival time.

Also the refusal of the ticket counter to allow baggage checkin at the ticketing desk even while no one is in line.

OAK airside has gotten much better but landside is such a unpredicatable mess :td::td::td::(

Our experience was so bad that I have promised our family that we will never fly Southwest again.

So now there will be one less disgrunteled family and crying two year old on WN? :)

But we will never subject ourselves to Southwest again.
Yeah, we know. You just told us.

Next to the line, the airport was paving the road, so we all had to breathe in the smell of hot tar.
I fail to see how this is the fault of WN.

I called Southwest customer service from my cell phone to find out why there was such a long line and was told “it’s a Monday” and that this was normal. I also asked two Southwest representatives (including one from the corporate office) and was also told this was “a volume issue” and was “normal” for August. (Never mind the fact that Monday comes every week and August comes every year, it appears that Southwest does not plan for summer travel!)

So you asked three WN employees and they all consistently gave you the same answer. Monday morning is a peak travel day and time.

After an hour in line dragging our luggage and holding a crying 2-year old, we reached the ticket counter.
So your crying child and the fact that you had to drag your own luggage is the fault of WN? :confused:


We had about about 20 minutes until our flight would depart. At the counter, the ticket agent was Coleman Olander. Mr. Olander informed us that one our suitcases was 10 pounds over the limit and that we would be charged $25. He also told us we could move luggage from our suitcase into another suitcase I told him we didn’t have time to do this because we had spent an hour in line. Mr. Olander was polite but refused to waive the fee, and when I told him we would never fly Southwest again told us that was our decision to make.

I am new here, but I thought you weren't supposed to use full first and last names of others. As for your luggage being overweight, again, how is that WNs fault? They offered you a solution and you chose not to take it and now you are upset about $25

With Ms. Patel’s help, we skipped the security line and then ran to the very last gate and boarded our flight. The door was closed almost immediately behind us. Without Ms. Patel’s assistance, we would have missed our flight.
Sounds like you got lucky with this one. When you go back to the legacy carriers I hope they are as helpful!

As we were standing waiting to board the flight, the gate agent walked by and, unprovoked, chided everyone standing in line by saying “3 hours ahead of the flight, people.” He wasn’t being humorous.

So the fact that you had to wait in line for a little over an hour to check bags and the fact that a WN employee wasn't being humorous is grounds for a DOT Complaint. :eek:

We have been treated poorly in the past by the legacy carriers but I can assure you that they have have NEVER subjected us to a 2,000-person line and repeatedly told us that this was “normal” and simply “volume”. With many of the e-kiosks unused, it was simply unexcusable that Southwest did not have adequate staffing and did not warn passengers in advance.

I am sure the legacy carriers will be happy to treat you poorly in the future!

I must not get it. You were having a bad day with the rental car, you smelled tar at the airport, your luggage was heavy, and your child was crying. How is this WNs fault?

Did they make it up to you at all by allowing you to cut the security line and make your flight?

Maybe the agent was right and you should make the decision to never fly WN again. :-:

Welcome, Why I Fly.

I think you were a bit harsh. I do fly WN a lot and understand OAK is not their best effort. But still, I would be upset at any airline where you have to wait over an hour to get bags checked -- except for an irregular ops day with lots of delays and cancellations. I think I wait an average of 3-5 minutes (of course, airports like IND and RNO help). But even in PHX, a very busy hub, the wait is usually less than 10 minutes. All airlines should develop processes to keep wait times to less than 30 min - even at peak times. After all, they do know how many pax will be arriving at the airport at the various times each day. I see some issues at a very small station where they may have 20 flights a day, but sometimes have 4-5 depart about the same time (maybe like CMH?).

But glad to get your opinions on the board.

WhyIFly very interestingly broke it down to four parts (rental car return, tar smell, overweight luggage and crying child. Left out of the synopsis was a one hour line to check luggage - and I think that is the entire crux of pnut's complaint.

But I do like the way WhyIFly dissected the letter.

BUT - it certainly sounds like SWA needs some more Employees at OAK.

we skipped the security line and then ran to the very last gate and boarded our flight. The door was closed almost immediately behind us.

As we were standing waiting to board the flight,

Contradictory statements?

Because I do believe that WN needs to control things they can control, such as the wait times in line, but to lay all of the blame on WN is just as harsh.

The line pnut describes sounds like a nightmare -- one that was made worse by dragging their crying child and overweight bag through the line. Would it have been possible to have one parent hang out on a bench off to the side with pnut jr and let him play?

Did pnut investigate alternatives to the line such as Skycaps? Some WN stations also have kiosks off to the left or right for checking bags only. Maybe that would have made the situation better.

Maybe pnut could have sent the other parent and pnut jr. ahead thru security, and alerted the gate or boarding agent that the other parent was having problems checking bags?

I would be curious to know what the TSA line looked like that the pnut family was able to avoid. It sounds like WN was trying to make good on the deal with the escort, but that was not enough?

With pnut flying so many segments it sounds like he/she is more of a traveler, rather than a victim, but the letter blaming everything from soup-to-nuts makes it sound otherwise.

Okay. I think I am sounding harsh again. Maybe this Flyertalk thing isn't for me. :confused: I think I will be a better lurker (?) than poster. :( Back to your regularly scheduled lively discussions.

called Southwest customer service from my cell phone to find out why there was such a long line and was told “it’s a Monday” and that this was normal. I also asked two Southwest representatives (including one from the corporate office) and was also told this was “a volume issue” and was “normal” for August. (Never mind the fact that Monday comes every week and August comes every year, it appears that Southwest does not plan for summer travel!)

I pass through OAK most Monday mornings, and I have seen huge lines only in the summer and for holiday peak travel days. If Southwest has fully staffed every check-in position, then they probably need to add several more for summer. I've read that similar problems occur leaving LAS on Sundays. An hour to check a bag is 20 minutes beyond what I would consider the upper limi of reasonable for a domestic carrier.

I agree with everything WhyIFly said and the way that he said it.

Pnut simply did not come early enough. But even if he had missed his flight, there is a 10:30am flight to BWI that SWA would have allowed his family to standby on. And for FREE! He would only get there 2.5 hours later. It's not like he was on a business trip or something. He would have known about free standbys if he had flown SWA more than a dozen times.

I think that is most people's problem. The inability to improvise that is. If you are going to miss your exit on the freeway, don't try to make it by cutting people off and risking an accident. Just take the next exit and make a u-turn. Easy as pie. But unlike pie, it is good for your heart. No need to write a scalding letter to customer service for something (not coming early enough, overweight baggage) that is entirely your fault. No need to take it out on the family. Laissez-faire.

And it is impossible that the line is 2,000 people long. Even though OAK has a long (narrow and crappy) airport, 2,000 with carry-on baggage would stretch from T1 to T2 a few times. If you're exaggerating for emphasis, pnut, then don't say you're not.

I have to agree with WhyIFly for the most part, most of the pnut's complaints are not WN's responsibility. As for the 2000-person long line, that is something that WN can work on. I have seen the lines at Christmas in PHX and on Sundays in LAS, and despite the extremely unusually lengths, the CSRs/TAs, do their best to move them along as quickly as possibly. I also echo the sentiment that pnut should have sent pnut jr and the other parent through to the gate ahead of time. Once at the gate, there is a lot more flexibility to console the crying pnut jr, plus pnut jr and the other parent could pre-board and hold a seat for pnut. It is much easier to have a GA or FA hold the plane, if members of the family are boarded and can plead the case of the missing parent. It is not possible to plead your case if you, or your representative, are not there.
I am also interested to hear WN's response, since they will most likely go out of their way to appease pnut for much of what was not the airline's fault.

I think I would have had wife and pnut jr. go ahead to gate - as I said earlier. And get on with the BPs and go even if hubby does not get on. If they do, that is fewer standby seats needed on next flight that pnut would need (and likely in that situation WN would get him on top of standby list.)

Of course, with Cell, could communicate.

2000 person line? IF WN OAK has 15 check in agents (never been to OAK) and ave. check in takes about 2 minutes / person (on ave., some take 3-4 min due to issues that sometimes arise), they could only check in about 500/hr. Is my math correct? That would be a 4 hr. line!!

I'll let you know what WN's response is. Regarding WhyIFly's post, I find it interesting that the detailed response essentially criticizes every aspect of my complaint except for the long line. This is no more balanced a response to me than what WhyIFly thought of my letter to WN.

I took responsibility for being 15 minutes under the 2-hour guidance. I pointed out the hot tar issue not because I thought WN had responsibility for it, but because having to deal with it was a direct result of WN's not hiring enough people to process passengers.

I am not the once in a blue moon oversensitive passenger. I have enough experience with WN to know when something is ridiculous, and only was compelled to complain because WN said they consider it to be normal.

As for being "pesky" by asking three different people: 1) I called Customer Service when I saw the line to find out about later flights. 2) I asked the first on-ground person who walked by while we were in line for an hour. She told me that I should be sure to tell the corporate people on the ground, so I did. Is this unreasonable?

I apologize if there is a board rule about not posting names, though I believe I've seen WN customer service names posted before. In this instance, I named the person I found to be polite but unhelpful, and the person who I found to be helpful. I think I was very moderate and balanced in explaining my opinion.

I admit that I did not personally count 2000 people in the two lines going out and down the length of the terminal. Which is why I took photos. You forgot to criticize me for probably violating airport security rules.

WhyIFly is entitled to post their opinion, which I interpret as saying that I have no grounds for complaint and instead should sing WN's praises for how passengers are treated at WN.

In the end, I am a frequent WN traveler who has extolled the virtues of WN far and wide. This does not mean they are above criticism, nor that somehow I'm some freaked out person.

I asked the first on-ground person who walked by while we were in line for an hour. She told me that I should be sure to tell the corporate people on the ground, so I did.

Indeed I have encountered such thinly veiled appeals for help elsewhere on Southwest and at other travel companies. The person asking you to report the incident is telling you that his or her management needs more ammunition from higher up to be able to get the resources necessary to fix the problem. You should definitely send a polite complaint letter to help out. You'll be doing the company a favor, and they will likely compensate you.

Regarding WhyIFly's post, I find it interesting that the detailed response essentially criticizes every aspect of my complaint except for the long line. My thoughts exactly, the unacceptable line length is the basis for everything else mentioned in your letter.

WN has 66 flights departing between 6:00 AM and noon, they should know how many people are needed to staff the counters. Granted, 14 of the 66 flights (21%) are in the 7:00 hour, so that's probably the absolute worst time for line length - but still, like nsx says, 40 minutes is about the upper limit that one could consider reasonable.

Non having been through OAK before, but through LAS MANY times, I have a simple question.

Curbside Check in?

Print BP online, curb check in, security...done.

A little tip for all of you LAS outbounds. Just promise to keep it between us...

When approaching the SWA curbside check in, keep going all the way to the end. Walk past everyone in line. Past the beginning of the line is a door into the terminal, the last door into the terminal. On the other side of the door is another, separate check in line, usually only a few people in line. Most think it is part of the first line's check in. Even the baggage guys laugh when I comment about there being no line. Of course, you then have to walk all the way down through the terminal, but it's worth it.

At LAX today what I thought was the security line stretching all the way to the western (T2 direction) end of T1 on the sidewalk was in fact the baggage check-in line. That's something I've never seen before, and something I hope never to see when I need to check a bag.

At LAX today what I thought was the security line stretching all the way to the western (T2 direction) end of T1 on the sidewalk was in fact the baggage check-in line. That's something I've never seen before, and something I hope never to see when I need to check a bag.

How long did you wait,,, or did you just have carry on and noticed it??

As stated earlier, airlines know within 5% of how many pax are flying each hour and can accurately estimate # that need to check bags. They need to adjust schedules (overtime? more people??) to compensate if waits look like they will get beyond 20 min. Also need to train ticketing people how to speed lines -- ie., not gabbing with people, looking up how many are on board (I admit, I usually ask), looking up inbound flights, having people repack bags when only a few lbs over, etc. All of this WHEN lines get over 15 min. Otherwise, fine.

How long did you wait,,, or did you just have carry on and noticed it??

I was just an observer, like I am when the A line forms way too early.

I arrived at Terminal 2 about 40 min ahead of my 8am flight (just carryon) a week and a half ago, and saw the security line stretching all the way past the baggage claim and outside a fairly long ways onto the curb. It turns out that there had been a 'security incident' in Terminal 1 that forced a terminal dump. Thankfully, I made my flight because extra lanes were open to deal with the problem, but it was still a shock to see such an unexpectedly large line.

Non having been through OAK before, but through LAS MANY times, I have a simple question.

Curbside Check in?

Print BP online, curb check in, security...done.


Agreed - Though it should be noted that the curbside checkin lines at OAK can also run 10-30 min. Pratical pointer: The skycap can print your BP as well as provide infant boarding pass (if needed), so it is unnecessary to print BP online if you use curbside checkin and plan to pre-board.

If it were me, I would have had my wife and baby use the BPs and go thru security right away -- and wait at a chair with cell phone in hand. After all, everyone is allowed 3 pieces of luggage to check.
***

This is what we usually do. Or - depending on the location - one person will do curbside checkin and the other will park/return rental car.

In fact you are right, no line should be over 45 minutes unless real problems with delays/cancellations/etc. WN, get your act together.

Agreed. WN doesn't have any control over the idiotic TSA setup at OAK (which has many fathers to blame) but WN certainly can control the baggage check dept. and should provide necessary staffing for peak periods.

When we have bags to check, we usually arrive at OAK between 70-90 min before departure. Mrs. Boraxo gets nervous when we have <60 min, but on average we clear security in 10-15 min, even when lines appear long, which leaves time for pit stops before boarding.

I thought it worth updating this thread to include a BizJournal story the newest (albeit pricey) method for speeding thru security lines at OAK. If it really works I may have to sign up given the continuing nonsense...

Oakland International Airport will become the 17th in the nation Thursday to offer express security lanes for some passengers.

Those who have been approved for use of the Clear identity card will be able to take advantage of the express lanes, which permit them to skip the sometimes-long lines of travelers that must queue up to get through security checkpoints.

Clear is the name of the program devised by Verified Identity Pass Inc. of New York, which has become the dominant player in the fledgling express security lane industry. Passengers approved for use of the cards must have their faces photographed, fingerprints and iris images taken and two pieces of government-issued identification -- such as driver's licenses or passports -- verified as legitimate.

About 120,000 people nationwide have been enrolled in the program.

"We did this in response to customer surveys, which have shown that people really want us to offer this option," Rosemary Barnes, Oakland Airport spokeswoman, has told the Business Times. "We've gotten lots of input, especially from representatives of large companies who travel at least a couple of times a week."

Express security lanes started operating last year at Oakland's chief rivals, San Francisco International Airport and Mineta San Jose International Airport.

About half of the passengers who use Oakland airport are business travelers.

Last year, the airport set an all-time record high of handling 14.6 million passengers.

Anybody who wants to get Clear free for a year should check here (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/viewfromthewing/2008/03/01/free-clear-airport-security-membership/) before the March 31 deadline.

If that option does not work for you, PM me and I may be able to help.

I will report next week on how well Clear works at OAK at the peak hour Monday morning.

The problem I have with OAK is that it seems entirely random whether WN properly staffs or not. So leaving aside the TSA line roulette, the waiting time variance to check bags is unbelievable. But since one must assume the worst case scenario, I spend TONS of time in the secured area waiting and waiting and waiting (but at least the food options have improved considerably, particularly in the new wing of T2).

A key theme on many slow days is the amazing number of non-working check-in machines. A little boy in line next to me asked his dad if they were made by the "out of service" company since "their sign is on every machine" :) Give that young man an extra bag of peanuts (I'd have said an ice cream cone but the prices in T2 for a single scoop shatter world records).

Hows things at OAK now since several carriers have left and WN has reduced some flights? Have a 11am flight on thursday and wondering how early to arrive checking bags

Thanks
K

anyone?
:p

Hows things at OAK now since several carriers have left and WN has reduced some flights? Have a 11am flight on thursday and wondering how early to arrive checking bags

Thanks
K

The last 3 times I flew out of OAK (Wed 11 am , Sat 8 am, Tues 3 pm) in the past month, the TSA line was less than 5 minutes. I didn't check bags, so I can't say how long that would take, but given the sparse # of people in the TSA line, I'm assuming that it would be fairly quick.

Note, pay attention to the various TSA lines. I found the Expert line had more people waiting for their ID to be check, while the Family line had no or only a couple of people.

The lines are way down at OAK, except perhaps on Friday afternoons (and even then the wait isn't too bad compared with the old days).

Part of the credit is due to TSA and OAK for reorganizing and expanding the screening areas and addings more metal detectors. But T-1 has got to be even more of a breeze with CO and AA pulling out.

Honestly the only thing missing from OAK these days (besides the aforementioned legacy carriers) is a nice airline club. ;)

The lines are way down at OAK, except perhaps on Friday afternoons (and even then the wait isn't too bad compared with the old days).

Part of the credit is due to TSA and OAK for reorganizing and expanding the screening areas and addings more metal detectors. But T-1 has got to be even more of a breeze with CO and AA pulling out.

Honestly the only thing missing from OAK these days (besides the aforementioned legacy carriers) is a nice airline club. ;)

Boraxo,
when I worked in OAK a third of a century ago, the airport used to have a private club on those square floors just below the cab of the control tower. I'm not sure if it is still there anymore?
Brian

I've flown through OAK four times in the past month. Security wait was 1-2 minutes. Checking bags was 2-3 minutes.

Thursday morning is not a peak time. Monday morning is. And the Monday morning lines have been short since summer.

How is OAK now on thurs am for a 9am flight?
Didnt know if budget cutbacks affecting TSA staffing?

How is OAK now on thurs am for a 9am flight?
Didnt know if budget cutbacks affecting TSA staffing?

Thursday AM should be fine. It's Monday AM that's a zoo. Even that is no worse now than a month ago. Spring break will add travelers but I expect that to be no worse a mess than it was the last couple years.