Air New Zealand Air Points - Premium Economy mini-Reviews

A few mixed reviews have been circulating on Air New Zealand's PE service.

Thought I'd start a thread for people to put their own mini-review of what they thought of the PE service. If you could cut and past the bold headings below and just pop one or two points down about what you thought. I'm hoping that we can use the responses to figure out as a community whether the positives all have something in common and if the negatives have something in common (eg. aircraft flown, route, seat no., day/night flight), enabling us to book PE seats and flights more wisely.

These are the headers I was hoping to use:

Route / Plane
Day/Night flight
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle)
Check in ok?
Seat comfort (width ok?)
Legroom
Ease of getting in and out
Food
Drink
FA attentiveness
AVOD
Would you do it again?

I'll start with my brother's comments on a recent flight. Some info missing, which I will add after I speak to him nextL

Route / Plane - AKL - SFO 777

Day/Night flight - Night time departure (I think)

Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) - One of the middle ones in the PE cabin

Check in ok? - Very quick, very pleased

Seat comfort (width ok?) - No problem with seat size

Legroom - Good for sitting long periods

Ease of getting in and out - Difficult even with extra legspace

Food - knew it was going only to be Economy + cheese, but was disappointed anyway

Drink - Good wines but were only offered with prompting

FA attentiveness - Fine, except for drink top ups

AVOD - Huge imporvement over the old "share a movie", sometimes slow but good selection

Would you do it again? Maybe - he thought it was pretty average for the price difference, although seat pitch was good for long haul

A few mixed reviews have been circulating on Air New Zealand's PE service.
I've posted comments on this elsewhere, and wonder about the value of this exercise because all judgements are entirely relative to expectations, and some people having flown PE seem to be comparing it to Business Class, which it most definitely isn't. The seat isn't wide enough? Who said there was going to be a wide seat?

Anyway, I'll give it a go to see if it helps.

Route / Plane AKL-LAX-AKL / refurb 747
Day/Night flight Night
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 23K, the starboard side bulkhead window seat upstairs.
Check in ok? As usual in the premium check-in area(s).
Seat comfort (width ok?) As expected, with recline being more important to me than width.
Legroom Plenty of it in 23K, but the legrest was next to useless.
Ease of getting in and out No problem at all with the huge amount of room in that bulkhead row.
Food Nothing special, as expected.
Drink Not a big part of my flight experience, but adequate enough, as expected.
FA attentiveness Not flash, but again that's my expectation on that route on NZ. In relative terms that means exponentially superior to LCCs, hugely superior to most European and US flagship carriers, but just not as good as NZ used to be.
AVOD Again, not a big part of my flight experience, but adequate enough as expected.
Would you do it again? Yes.

I'm looking into flying ANZ LHR - MEL return next August / Sept, so this thread is certainly of interest to me. I'm not really bothered about food or service, but I definitely want more personal space / legroom, and a couple of movies also help to kill time. Premium Pacific looks like the ideal solution without paying for full-on J. I have read that VS may be a better seat in PE, but I really want to go to MEL and understand that the transfer from International to Domestic at SYD is rather complicated. So ANZ to MEL in PE seems to tick all my boxes this side of a TARDIS.

Just briefly, have flown NZ Premium Econ a couple of times and I think it is overrated. I disagree with a previous poster about seat width. VS and Eva, to name just two airlines, offer wider seats in premium econ (for example, in the 747 VS layout in upper deck is 2-2 versus 2-3 for Air NZ. I also don't care about food and drink, and as a Star Gold can check in premium anyway. Having two crawl over two other passengers to reach the aisle in premium economy is a pain!

My overall impression is they have done this on the cheap, and missed a chance to create a really good product. You are better off in my view on United in the Economy Plus (which is free for premium passengers) or the old Thai planes, which have just as much or even more legroom in normal economy.

The only good thing in my view about the Air NZ premium econ is that you can try to use the standby 400 airpoints upgrade to get a business first bed.

You are better off in my view on United in the Economy Plus (which is free for premium passengers) or the old Thai planes, which have just as much or even more legroom in normal economy.

While I agree that it sounds like NZ have dropped the ball with a slightly half-hearted attempt at premium economy (I haven't tried it personally), that claim about the legroom is well wide of the mark. Thai have 34" of pitch in their best Y seats (the same as NZ's 744s, by the way; United have 34-35" in ther international Econ Plus product; AirNZ's premium Y is 38-40".

For me, the fact that the legroom in Y on NZ (in the 747s anyway) means that the sizeable price premium for Y+ just doesn't make sense, unless the seat really is a major leap forward in comfort and space, which it really doesn't seem to be (ineffective legrest being a particular culprit here). On a 777, where the Y legroom is less and therefore the incentive to pay extra might be more, the truly lame decision to go with 3+3+3 layout in Y+ rules that even further out of contention. The premium drink service is a great idea, but again it sounds like the reality is a bit half-hearted unless you know to ask for it.

Having said all that, it seems to be doing OK as a class. Just a pity they didn't put that bit of extra effort into it.

Maybe I should check out VS after all. The new PE seats are 21.5" wide, as opposed to 18.5" for ANZ. Bother.

:confused:

Hi all,

Sorry, not quite a review, so possibly belongs elsewhere, but I've been looking at the benefits and customer reviews on AirNZ PE class from all across the internet, thought I'd summarise my findings in the hope that it may help others decide...

I'll do my own review on PE when I get back.....but not till next year.. :eek:


My Summary of Others Thoughts on AirNZ Premium Economy.

1) 747 PE much better than 777 PE. But also note that 747 Economy much better than 777 Economy so that makes it tricky!! 747 only goes AKL-HKG-LHR and back, and some LAX-AKL flights, otherwise it's all 777.

2) Not really good value for money compared to cheaper economy prices, but certainly more recline and legroom, nicer (and self-service) alcohol selection, cheese at the end of main meals and access to the Premier toilets! So if your budget or airpoints can stretch it, for long haul, go on treat yourself, but don't expect luxury.

3) In theory better service than Economy, but reviews are very mixed across the board, from dismal to superb. Very much depends on how your crew morale feels on the day.

4) Much cheaper upgrade to Business class using airpoints, but only confirmable in advance with a U class PE fare, which is very pricey (Cheaper classes are O and E). Otherwise it's hope for a Standby Upg at the gate, good luck!!

5) Limited availability on 777's and not much more on 747. Also avoid the last row on 747 PE (25JK, and 26ABC, too close to the toilets).

6) Bulkhead row on 747 is now row 22, not 23 as previously reviewed. Has much more legroom, but possibly not as much width due to IFE and traytable being in the armrest.

7) Air New Zealand PE has more recline and legroom than almost all other PE's with other airlines, but is also more expensive than most, and without some other benefits that a few give.

8) Food is still Economy class (not getting good reviews, main complaint is size of meal), but with small cheese platter at the end, and better drinks.

9) Premium Check-In is a nice bonus, saves time, makes you feel important!!

10) You get to go upstairs on the 747!!!! Quieter (some noise during the night from flight crew though), more private, and hopefully no screaming babies!!

Hope this helps someone...

Cheers
TiggerK

[QUOTE=mad_atta]While I agree that it sounds like NZ have dropped the ball with a slightly half-hearted attempt at premium economy (I haven't tried it personally), that claim about the legroom is well wide of the mark. Thai have 34" of pitch in their best Y seats (the same as NZ's 744s, by the way; United have 34-35" in ther international Econ Plus product; AirNZ's premium Y is 38-40".

mad-atta;
Thanks for the clarification... I should have checked my facts first on legroom first! I guess what i was trying to convey was that overall I did not feel it represented value for money, especially not in the 777. Actually am booked in PE on a flight to Hong Kong next week on the 747 but only because I am told I have a good change of getting a standby upgrade... fingers crossed!

Has PE got worse, I found it very good. I just want a slightly bigger seat with regular food and a little bit more FA attentiveness which I got. So PE suits my needs.

Route / Plane AKL-SFO-AKL 747 Oct 2005

Day/Night flight: Night then day then return during the night.

Seat No. (aisle / window; Left hand side 3 seater returned on the 2 seater side which was better, both times in row 24 I think. There was 2 of us travelling,

Check in ok? Premium checkin available which was nice.

Seat comfort (width ok?) Width ok; no problem

Legroom: Excellent, more than expected

Ease of getting in and out: No trouble

Food: Good enough; what I expected; dinner was nice; maybe breakfast could have been improved but I was overall happy with the meals.

Drink: first round alcohol and other drinks ok. Maybe more would have been nice but there was water available during the flight.

FA attentiveness: No problem; they serve the Premiere class first.

AVOD: Slow but still very nice. It was my first AVOD experience so great for what I wanted. Plenty of music and enough movies for me watch.

Would you do it again? Yes for sure, but wouldn't fly from Australia to NZ to get to Europe.

I booked PE within a week of it being offerred for sale April 2005 so got a excellent price. If I was going to the US again next year then would look at flying Air NZ PE. Didn't fly to the US this year. I dislike regular economy pitch, business is way out of my budget so PE is a nice inbetween.

Route / Plane - HKG-LHR / B747-400 (Refurbished)

Day/Night flight - Day - Dep HKG 08:15 Arr LHR 13:35

Seat No. (aisle / window / middle)- 22A (Emergency exit window - not much of a window. You have to turn your head about 90 degrees)

Check in ok? - Used ITCI at Hong Kong Station, Central. Quick and courteous, very pleased

Seat comfort (width ok?) - Good recline, seat width as expected, nothing special. Preferred to use legrest without the foot bar.

Legroom - Plenty. No obstruction.

Ease of getting in and out - Excellent.

Food - Average. I've had worse and I've had better on other airlines. Nothing much to say. Meals for this sector: Breakfast, Afternoon Tea, Lunch.

Drink - Asked for champagne and was told it was sparkling wine from New Zealand. Very nice FA let me try the Veuve Clicquot Ponsard from Business Premier throughout the flight. ^

FA attentiveness - Very good. Service with a smile. ^

AVOD - Not bad but a bit fiddly to use.

Would you do it again? - No, not for twice the price of normal economy.

great report, thank you. Interesting.

Yes thanks UK flyer, always keen to get more info...

I'll be in 22K, I assume the window is the same from what kiwibigdave has told me, is it actually a smaller window than normal, or is it just the 90 degree position that makes it not much of a window??

It's tossup between a decent view, and more legroom...

But then again, we've got 22JK on the way AKL-LHR via HKG and 23JK on the way back, so best of both worlds I suppose...

Is the self service area still there?? Some have said it wasn't.

Cheers
TiggerK

the emergency door doesnt have much of a window, and the windows in front of the emergency door are not clearly visible from "window" seat (except on the other side of the a/c) due to the door protrusion making the nearest window with best view the one behind the emergency door

I assume the window is the same from what kiwibigdave has told me, is it actually a smaller window than normal, or is it just the 90 degree position that makes it not much of a window??Just to clarify, the only window you can see clearly out of whilst in the bulkhead K seat is exactly the same size as all the windows upstairs (except for the one in the UDR door) - but you can't see out of it without turning through 90 degrees because it's a little behind your shoulders. You can't see out of the UDR window - which is smaller, without getting out of your seat.

It's tossup between a decent view, and more legroom...Not for me :) You get the extra legroom for the entire duration of the flight, but the window might be worth looking out of for about 15 minutes at each end of the sector.

I don't do trip reports on FlyerTalk but I did do a report for my flight which I posted on another site. Here it is:

NZ39 HKG-LHR Pacific Premium Economy (www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15957)

UK flyer it's interesting that you were allowed to 'sample' the business premier champagne, given that premium economy is supposed to have the same alcohol service as Business.

Unless this curiously doesn't apply to champagne?

I got economy drinks in premium economy :(

Well, when I asked for champagne the purser told me it was Deutz (sp?) from New Zealand which is a sparkling wine. I imagine this is the official PE 'champagne'.

Anyhow, he gave me plenty of the Business Premier champagne throughout the flight. Top marks to him.

I got economy drinks in premium economy :(

Right, so before my trip I'm going to print off all the web blurb about PE, and hold them to all of it. If I'm paying extra for a better service, I expect to get it. We shy and quiet Kiwi's just don't complain often enough, and too often they get away with not delivering what is promised. I used to have to bite my tongue when my wife was working for them, but now she's moved on, the gloves come off!! (Well in a friendly and polite way of course).... :)

Cheers
TiggerK

TiggerK - exactly. I held the FAs to it on the LAX-LHR sector in PE, and while it certainly didn't make them very pleased with me, I got what I asked for. Admittedly, I didn't ask for champagne, except at pre-departure, which was refused. Nobody has provided clarity (including Air NZ) on whether that's included. I thought it was.

A complaint to flightcomment@airnz.co.nz has resulted in a lengthy apology from them about it.

Having only flown it once, I'd fly it again, but only if they get the service inconsistencies fixed. Currently looking at it for AKL-LAX-AKL in Dec.

aj..

Route / Plane
LAX-AKL / 747

Day/Night flight
11pm at Night - NZ5

Seat No. (aisle / window / middle)
22B & 22C middle and aisle

Check in ok?
Checked in at YYZ with Air Canada. When we went to the Koru Club, they re-issued our boarding passes on Air New Zealand paper :)

Seat comfort (width ok?)
Width was a little tight(ish) but I think because we were on the exit row the tray and AVOD were tucked away in the sides. Wasn't a huge problem for me (over 6ft tall and 210lbs). The foot rests were a waste of time for someone my size. But I'd say that the seats were the most comfortable non J seats I've flown in. Only problem with the exit row (and this might seem odd) is the lack of storage space. I would've appreciated somewhere to put my headphones, water bottle, iPod etc. I noticed that the window seats had little storage areas which was cool.

Legroom
No problems as we had an exit row on the upper deck - plenty of leg room.

Ease of getting in and out
Preboarding was announced for Premium Economy customers along with Star Alliance Gold so I was covered either way :p

Food
Dismal. And I was aware that I would be served economy food so it wasn't from unrealistic expectations. The evening meal was probably some of the worst I've eaten on a plane. However, I believe this is unusual for ANZ. The breakfast was better - I normally make it a rule to never eat anything that's supposed to be from the omlette family but this time it was not bad. Everything else was pretty horid.

The self service pantry was pretty good - I munched my way through a few bananas, some cookie bars and some grapes... I appreciated that.

Drink
Wasn't drinking on this flight but the "bar" was there for your helping.

FA attentiveness
Great - weird thing was we had an all male staff in PE. Both 50+ so it was a bit of a culture shock. They were very good. The only problem I found was that because we were on the front row of the upper deck, the business section was infront of us, so you were really aware that they were special and you weren't - so despite the fact that the FA's were good, you were aware that they were 'better' to the business folks. Which is fare enough, given the price they'd paid! But they were good, very chatty, attentive and some of the better service I've received on a flight.

AVOD
I appreciated the AVOD but the selection wasn't *that* massive and it was fairly unresponsive e.g. I found myself having to press select several times for it to respond to me. Having just used the AC AVOD on the flight to LAX probably didn't help because I had that fresh in my memory and it was easier to use and definately more responsive.

Would you do it again?
Probably not if I was paying full price for it... this was part of a RTW itinerary and I paid a $300 surcharge to upgrade for PE which seemed worth it. If they through in the business menu, then definately. The problem is, I didn't get to see the economy cabin so I couldn't do an effective comparison. If I was doing the 747 again, I'd probably book the exit rows downstairs rather than sit upstairs and be constantly reminded I wasn't in business... the downstairs PE cabin seemed much more contained and therefor nicer. But I guess that's just preference.

Looking forward to a review of PE downstairs on the 744, and anywhere on the 777!

:)

TiggerK - exactly. I held the FAs to it on the LAX-LHR sector in PE, and while it certainly didn't make them very pleased with me, I got what I asked for. Admittedly, I didn't ask for champagne, except at pre-departure, which was refused. Nobody has provided clarity (including Air NZ) on whether that's included. I thought it was.

A complaint to flightcomment@airnz.co.nz has resulted in a lengthy apology from them about it.

Having only flown it once, I'd fly it again, but only if they get the service inconsistencies fixed. Currently looking at it for AKL-LAX-AKL in Dec.

aj..

An apology is not good to me, I have chosen Premium Economy based on what is advertised on their website. I intend to have several drinks and expect to have the 42 below cocktails and the choice of the business class wines etc.

A lenghty apology doesn't really mean much to me after I have paid $$ for the service I haven't received. I would be expecting either a refund or some points!

A lenghty apology doesn't really mean much to me after I have paid $$ for the service I haven't received. I would be expecting either a refund or some points!

Don't hold your breath waiting. I got nothing other than an inane comment that bookings are high for premium economy. :rolleyes:

While I am still reviewing plans, there is a good chance that this plus some other issues has cost NZ a significant amount of international business travel from me.

An apology is not good to me, I have chosen Premium Economy based on what is advertised on their website. I intend to have several drinks and expect to have the 42 below cocktails and the choice of the business class wines etc.

A lenghty apology doesn't really mean much to me after I have paid $$ for the service I haven't received. I would be expecting either a refund or some points!Fair enough - but the only way for NZ corporate to know about it is if someone tells them.

Certainly it would be worthwhile taking the printouts from the website with you, just in case....

Fair enough - but the only way for NZ corporate to know about it is if someone tells them.

Certainly it would be worthwhile taking the printouts from the website with you, just in case....

Well I will take a printout with me, but if I need to show a printout to get a service that they have had for close to a year now, I think that service is pathetic, and will be complaining as soon as my return trip is completed.

They have the arrogance to say that bookings are high, they expand premium economy but it seems they can not inform FA's that premium economy passengers are entitled to business class wine/drinks. It surely cannot be that hard :mad: :td:

Rethinking about my booking in PE, I doubt I will do it again, it seemed a good idea at the time, but unless they serve business class food or improve the seat width I wont' be booking it again. Even thought I have yet to try it!

Based on several members on here having issues with getting the better wines/champagnes I cannot wait for Virgin to start their Aus-LA flights! If they base their premium economy on their Virgin Atlantic product it will be far superior than what Air NZ offers. Without getting too much off topic the current Virgin Atlantic price to fly from Syd-London is economy$2060, Prem Economy $3850. Pricing not too different from the AIR NZ pricing strucuture (Prem Eco being about twice discount Eco) One would say that the Virgin setup for Aus-USA will be even cheaper.

Can't wait for their accouncement towards the end of this year :)

All that being said I may have an excellent experience with Air NZ in Prem Econ and be raving about it on my return :)

OK, so I thought I'd get around to filling the questionnaire out. :-)

Route / Plane LAX-LHR, B747-400 ZK-NBW.
Day/Night flight Afternoon->night->morning, I guess.
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 23C (exit row aisle, old config)
Check in ok? Checkin was fine, but I had access to the Biz checkin by virtue of *G. My upgrade from economy had not cleared at checkin, but cleared approx. 45 minutes from departure while in the Koru Club. They pre-seated me in 23C. I was in 31C in Economy.
Seat comfort (width ok?) I found the width a little lacking, certainly not as nice as the old Biz seats, but reasonably OK. I could leave things sitting beside me in the seat alright. I do have to point out that 23ABC had the only spare seat in it, resulting in an empty middle for me. The gentleman in 23A got an on-board op-up to biz to sit with his wife (at his request), allowing 23B to move over to 23A. The rest of PE was 100% full, which is why I hadn't been able to buy a seat in PE originally!
Legroom Legroom in the exit row is great, certainly can't complain. I didn't notice any issues with the carts or flight attendants. The carts were not left in that area for snacks. The leg rest, however, was useless.
Ease of getting in and out No problem in the exit row. I think it might be a little more difficult in the seats further back.
Food Standard economy fare. I can't even remember what I ate - chicken I think. Certainly not memorable, and depressing to receive after watching business get served first.
Drink I had requested a pre-departure champagne upon boarding, to which I received a very "hell no" response from the FA, and felt like I was from Mars. They had a full tray of Champagne which ended up being disposed of as virtually nobody in Biz upper deck drank any.

I still have no clarification of whether this is a PE service! Does anyone know?

The rest of the drink was fine - 42 Below vodka was available, the wines that I had were fine (Sauvignon Blanc, dessert wine). The cheese selection was it's usual self.
FA attentiveness I felt this is where the product was significantly let down. The FAs seemed to treat us like regular Economy, or worse, passengers. I certainly felt no additional attention for being in a more premium class, or being NZ*G. I felt the FAs really let this flight down. This was the UK based crew, though. I've had colleagues travel with NZ based crew and have had the opposite opinion, so that leaves me hopeful...
AVOD Fine - only the usual complaints (slow; can't listen to music while watching the map).
Would you do it again? Yes - if only to secure the extra legroom and have a potentially cheaper upgrade to business. I'm currently looking at PE to LAX over Christmas (if I can convince myself there's no point to be in AKL, and it's looking like there isn't). Tentatively looking at NZ6 outbound, NZ3 inbound, so would be on the 772 return which I don't really want to do, as there's that much less upgrade opportunity into biz!

Looking forward to a review of PE downstairs on the 744, and anywhere on the 777!Juha Saarinen has written briefly about PE on the 772 here (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/juha/1426). You could ask any specific questions in his blog feedback, but I'll point him to this thread as well.

Here's a photo of seat 22A (in full recline position) on my flight from HKG-LHR last week.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j28/bmiflyer/Star%20Alliance%20-%20The%20Network%20for%20Earth/DSC01793.jpg

I still have no clarification of whether this is a PE service! Does anyone know?


Sorry, I should have replied to this sooner. Pre take-off drinks are not a part of the PE service. In fact, I'll post what PE passengers are entitled to (this applies to longhaul - shorthaul is of course different).

Pretakeoff drinks: No
Pre dinner drinks: Until 2100
Hot towels: Only Japan/PVG
Drinks selection: C class service
Cocktails: Yes
C Class inflight snacks: Yes
Noise cancelling headsets: No
Cheese plate: Yes
Glassware: For dessert wine/port

Sorry, I should have replied to this sooner. Pre take-off drinks are not a part of the PE service. In fact, I'll post what PE passengers are entitled to (this applies to longhaul - shorthaul is of course different).

Pretakeoff drinks: No
Pre dinner drinks: Until 2100
Hot towels: Only Japan/PVG
Drinks selection: C class service
Cocktails: Yes
C Class inflight snacks: Yes
Noise cancelling headsets: No
Cheese plate: Yes
Glassware: For dessert wine/port

Hi nz_crew

Is there a manual reference we can quote for this? (In case I should ever be in PE again.) Of the above all I got was the cheese plate :(

Hi nz_crew

Is there a manual reference we can quote for this? (In case I should ever be in PE again.) Of the above all I got was the cheese plate :(

Hi KF,

It's part of the "Service Flow Update, September 2006". I suppose that may help.

BTW, to all reading this thread - as a crew member of an airline that is, to be brutally honest, a gnat amongst giants, it frustrates me just as much as you when the service standards we hope to attract and retain customers with aren't met.

The most effective method of having your concerns raised is to ask to speak to the Flight Service Manager. They are the onboard manager and a major part of whether their 3 year contract is renewed is based on passenger onboard satisfaction.

If you don't get satisfaction from them, I suggest you obtain their name and correspond on the issue with flightcomment@airnz.co.nz.

Thanks nz_crew

Yes thanks nz_crew, good to get some clarification.

One thing however, your list says NO to noise cancelling headsets, but this is what is current on the airnewzealand.co.nz website, Traveller Info - On The Plane - Pacific Premium Economy Section.


Entertainment


Experience the benefits of on demand entertainment - giving you control of the action:

In-seat remote control allowing you play, stop, fast forward and rewind whenever you want to
Your own individual 8.4" high resolution screen
A wide range of audio and video on-demand entertainment options including the most recent blockbuster movies, TV programmes, exclusive audio programmes, a CD collection of the very best in music at every seat
A dedicated kids section with content specifically selected to entertain a younger audience
Cached content that offers information on Air New Zealand products and services
Active noise cancellation headsets to ensure crystal clear sound
The latest Airshow 4200 moving map
Read further information about the unique new in-flight entertainment system.

Someone is wrong??

Cheers
TiggerK

PE: Active noise cancellation headsets to ensure crystal clear sound.

Interesting that the website says YES, but the FA's have been told NO.

As for the pre-departure drinks, even if no Business Class passengers took up the offer, and the drinks were "wasted" it wouldn't be fare to start offering them to the PE passengers only to run out after the first few rows.

Another Q:

Is there a snack area downstairs ?

STAFF UPDATE 07 December 2006

Please ensure this information is distributed to other staff that do not have access to computers.

Pacific Premium Economy re-launched on Air New Zealand long-haul services

The relaunch of Pacific Premium Economy on 20 December will continue to set Air New Zealand’s premium long-haul service apart from our competition.

Pacific Premium Economy has been remarkably successful since its launch in the middle of 2005 with our first re-fitted B747, but it is critical that we continue to meet and surpass customer expectations.

Customer feedback on this class shows that while passengers love the additional leg room and the exclusive feel of the cabin, they would be willing to pay more for an enhanced food choice.

Pacific Premium Economy on all long-haul services will see a significant increase in the level of food and amenities our customers receive. These include pre take-off drinks, printed menus, proper glassware and a full tray meal service - largely the same as the Business Premier service, but with some modifications to create a more simple service flow. Additionally, Business Premier snacks will be available to Pacific Premium Economy customers. They’ll also receive hot towels, amenity kits, Living Nature Lip Balm, slippers (JPN / PVG services only) and Premium headsets.

Pacific Premium Economy will be available on all long-haul B747 and B777 dedicated routes. The Tasman and Pacific Islands will continue to have Pacific Premium Economy as we currently know it.

The evolution of this service clearly demonstrates that we are listening to our customers and crew and responding with changes in a timely and nimble manner.

I’d personally like to acknowledge all our people who have been involved in the relaunch of the Pacific Premium Economy service and to thank them for their efforts in delivering this initiative to Air New Zealand customers so quickly.



Ed Sims
Group General Manager International Airline



--issued by Internal Communications

I will be travelling on Air NZ and using this service in March 07. I will keep my expectations neutral and will hope to be pleasantly surprised. My wife and I are hoping this service will make the trip easier for us and our three children (11-8-7)...

Thanks but that was posted several weeks ago now

It has been very interesting to read the various opinions of NZ's PE.Obviously the standard is not good in many areas.All goes to reaffirm I made the right decision to cancel PE flights I had booked.
I booked PE on NZ2 AKL to LHR in Mar 2007 because at a travel show in Wellington the NZ rep was really pushing the "wider seat" on the 747.Both my wife and I have done RTW in Y seats and decided this time we would pay the not insignificant extra $$$ to have wider seats. The other benefits of check-in, legroom,cheeseboard etc we did not think on their own warrant the extra $$$.Well not for us anyway.It was either PE with wider seats or bite the bullet and pay J class.

After booking in April NZ changed the Aircraft to a 777 on those sectors.When I rang NZ and explained that we wanted the wider seat they basically said tough luck. When I asked if we could re-route via HKK on NZ39 they said yes no problem but it will cost you a further $1342.00 to do so because thats the only fare available at this time. The off-hand and disinterested manner in which they dealt with my query I have to admit got to me so we have cancelled and rebooked with an alternate carrier.

Perhaps they need to look at standards on and off the aircraft.

It has been very interesting to read the various opinions of NZ's PE.Obviously the standard is not good in many areas.All goes to reaffirm I made the right decision to cancel PE flights I had booked.
I booked PE on NZ2 AKL to LHR in Mar 2007 because at a travel show in Wellington the NZ rep was really pushing the "wider seat" on the 747.Both my wife and I have done RTW in Y seats and decided this time we would pay the not insignificant extra $$$ to have wider seats. The other benefits of check-in, legroom,cheeseboard etc we did not think on their own warrant the extra $$$.Well not for us anyway.It was either PE with wider seats or bite the bullet and pay J class.

After booking in April NZ changed the Aircraft to a 777 on those sectors.When I rang NZ and explained that we wanted the wider seat they basically said tough luck. When I asked if we could re-route via HKK on NZ39 they said yes no problem but it will cost you a further $1342.00 to do so because thats the only fare available at this time. The off-hand and disinterested manner in which they dealt with my query I have to admit got to me so we have cancelled and rebooked with an alternate carrier.

Perhaps they need to look at standards on and off the aircraft.

I think your main frustation was the deceptive condcut pushing the wider seats but not fully informing you that it was only on the 747 ? Also probably changing the flight to a 777 without telling you about the loss of width ? Did you have to pay cancellation fees ? Who did you re-book with ?

I find Air NZ attitude and customer service to be poor. After getting stuffed around mainly due to weather from a RAR-MEL flight, where we were told the AKL-MEL plane would wait for us, whereas when we got to AKL, we were told there was "no way that it would have waited for a few passengers" I thought I would give them another chance.

So as per my other thread, booked PE for MEL-LAX in Jan/March next year. Air NZ decide to change the return flight times on me and the aircraft WITHOUT NOTIFYING ME OF THE CHANGE. Rang up two different agents on the phone and their attitude was "well you would have been told when you checked in for your flight TO LAX". That is simply not good enough, also the downgrade to the 777 was nothing in their books. When I asked what about the upper deck and the extra width and the JK seats on the upperdeck, they said "some people MAY find that a benefit, but most people dont like the stairs" :rolleyes:

Anyways I let it go and thought fine, no more flights on Air NZ after this one. I mean they have all my phone numbers and email address and dont feel the need to inform me of a 2 hour + change in departure time from LAX until I check in.

The icing on the cake was the fact that a few days later I could change back to the 747 from LAX-AKL then connect to the 777 as they changed the connection times enough so that it's a valid connection. SO another phone call back and I was re-booked but in the process lost my 23 JK previous seat request.

I still think the $ spent is worth it, at this stage as the onboard service on other flights has always been good. Will defaintely write a very detailed review in either Feb or March for you guys.

I will reiterate some facts that Air NZ needs to be well aware of, I would email them but what's the point. Better to let hundreds of potential travellers that read these forums aware of the problems

Air NZ
Will change your flight times and not let you know until you check in, if it was for your initial flight you'll probably miss it
Will (possibly not anymore) advertise products/services that you won't actually get, even though you booked it on that premise such as
Noise cancelling headphones
premium wine/drinks - You may get to "taste" them if your lucky
Treat you like a fool when calling their contact centres

Alright... for the recent Tasman flight I did:

Route / Plane NZ6 MEL-AKL
Day/Night flight Day
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 22C - exit row aisle, upper deck.
Check in ok?Check-in was great - I'm *G so used the business checkin and avoided the huuuuge economy line. However, the checkin agent (QF staffer) not only didn't priority tag my bag.... he didn't tag it all :eek:. Something I didn't realise until I got to AKL. More on that below.
Seat comfort (width ok?) With all the conversation about the width lately I did notice it a bit more this time around than previously. Yes, it is just an economy seat. It doesn't strike me as being any hugely notable amount wider (the 1.5" quoted here regularly seems right).
Legroom Leg room was fine - exit row, so plenty of space. Foot rest is still useless.
Ease of getting in and out no problems at all.
Food Regular Tasman Express product - choice of ham & cheese or chicken sandwich, Kapiti icecream. I've often wondered about people's comments re. the Tasman Express food, as I normally fly the 6am WLG-MEL and 7pm MEL-WLG flights, which seem to have better food than this lunch time flight. The food definitely was not the relaunched/re-vamped product, but the crew were aware of the new product. They did comment that they didn't have the time to offer a full business class style menu on the Tasman services, but I'm not sure I buy that. I remember reasonably decent meals on AKL-CHC "back in the day".
Drink Real disappointment here. The alcohol product on the Tasman services is not business class. It is the regular economy product, so no premium drinks at all - 42 below not available, etc.
FA attentiveness Very friendly, helpful, etc. Somewhat embarrassed when I asked for better alcohol and was surprised about it not being available. They were again a crew to a high standard and something NZ should be aware of, proud of, and continue to achieve these standards across the network.
AVOD The displays in 22B and 22C were both suffering from "the droop" - that is, they wouldn't stay in position. A little bit of cardboard wedged did the trick (off the boxed lunch actually), but was concerning that it hadn't been caught by maintenance before. This combined with 31H not reclining in November on my AKL-MEL flight did have me wondering. I let the FSM/FSD/ISD/whatever-the-abbreviation-is-now know about it and he did say it would be fixed before the long haul onto LA. I imagine it would be pretty annoying otherwise.
Would you do it again? On the Tasman? No. Long haul? Yes, absolutely. I was op-up'd at checkin to Premium Economy, so I'm not going to complain about it/look a gift horse in the mouth, but if I was paying (as I am on my way back next week due to PE being cheaper than full fare Y which is all that's available), I would be unhappy.

Ground Services in AKL on arrival was a shambles. They managed to lose almost all premium tagged bags between the aircraft and the terminal. We waited 40 minutes, after all other pax had left, to receive our priority tagged bags. There were a lot of extremely annoyed/disappointed pax who were in business (flight went out with only 2 C seats empty, 100% in PE and Y), and a large number of people in all classes who missed connecting flights.

After someone flipped out, they "found" our bags and they all appeared at once very quickly. It was only when my friend picking me up pointed out that my bag wasn't priority tagged that I noticed that it had no tag at all!

Thanks for the review, still disapointing by the sounds of it, at least on the Tasman experience.

As for checking bags, I always make a habbit of checking the tag put on the bag, IF any. Something my father taught me many years ago, heard too many stories from him.

Only had to pull a gate agent up once when the tag said the wrong destination, he was very apolgetic, and glad that i checked it for him...

Yes - I generally do check the tags/ensure they're on as well. I was in a rush; tired; hung over; and on the phone. And knew that at 11:15am for a 12:00 flight was pushing it, especially to get through customs and security...

It was a good reminder to always check, but atleast it did turn up. I wonder if baggage services "assumed" that I was on NZ6 because of the NZ*G card on the bag?

They could definitely improve the product on the Tasman run. I can't imagine why anyone would pay for it otherwise - it's not as if the seats make that much of a difference on such a short flight. I could have bought business on the same aircraft for less than my B-fare ticket; or business (maybe even First) on Emirates, but that's not permitted with our travel policies.

I think your main frustation was the deceptive condcut pushing the wider seats but not fully informing you that it was only on the 747 ? Also probably changing the flight to a 777 without telling you about the loss of width ? Did you have to pay cancellation fees ? Who did you re-book with ?

I find Air NZ attitude and customer service to be poor. After getting stuffed around mainly due to weather from a RAR-MEL flight, where we were told the AKL-MEL plane would wait for us, whereas when we got to AKL, we were told there was "no way that it would have waited for a few passengers" I thought I would give them another chance.

So as per my other thread, booked PE for MEL-LAX in Jan/March next year. Air NZ decide to change the return flight times on me and the aircraft WITHOUT NOTIFYING ME OF THE CHANGE. Rang up two different agents on the phone and their attitude was "well you would have been told when you checked in for your flight TO LAX". That is simply not good enough, also the downgrade to the 777 was nothing in their books. When I asked what about the upper deck and the extra width and the JK seats on the upperdeck, they said "some people MAY find that a benefit, but most people dont like the stairs" :rolleyes:

Anyways I let it go and thought fine, no more flights on Air NZ after this one. I mean they have all my phone numbers and email address and dont feel the need to inform me of a 2 hour + change in departure time from LAX until I check in.

The icing on the cake was the fact that a few days later I could change back to the 747 from LAX-AKL then connect to the 777 as they changed the connection times enough so that it's a valid connection. SO another phone call back and I was re-booked but in the process lost my 23 JK previous seat request.

I still think the $ spent is worth it, at this stage as the onboard service on other flights has always been good. Will defaintely write a very detailed review in either Feb or March for you guys.

I will reiterate some facts that Air NZ needs to be well aware of, I would email them but what's the point. Better to let hundreds of potential travellers that read these forums aware of the problems

Air NZ
Will change your flight times and not let you know until you check in, if it was for your initial flight you'll probably miss it
Will (possibly not anymore) advertise products/services that you won't actually get, even though you booked it on that premise such as
Noise cancelling headphones
premium wine/drinks - You may get to "taste" them if your lucky
Treat you like a fool when calling their contact centres


Thanks for your comments AndDee.
My main frustration was that they did make note that the seats on the 747 were wider and that is why I booked via LAX and not via Asia. The unhelpful response to my call annoyed me. Upshot is I found WT+ on BA AKL/SYD/LHR for $20 less than I paid on NZ. I rang BA and they gave me the full run down. Basically wider seats and more legroom. They did point out that it is WT+ and not CW- so don't get too carried away but at least they were upfront with what they were selling.

Yes I did get stung $600 in penalties which I figured was better than paying NZ an extra $1342 to go on NZ39. I wrote to NZ about the penalty but got a big tough luck response similar to the phone call.

At the end of the day I'm off to see my kids and grandson in the UK and gonna enjoy myself no matter what. Life moves on and is too short to waste time worrying about things like this.

It was a good reminder to always check, but atleast it did turn up. I wonder if baggage services "assumed" that I was on NZ6 because of the NZ*G card on the bag?Seems more likely the tag was lost after it had been put into a container (ie on it's way out).

And for services which have containerised luggage it's not necessary to have priority tags. But until they've done away with them completely on these services, rather than having patchy application depending on the square route of the derivative of a variable 2c2 divided by pi times a simple one-dimensional time-independent Schrödinger equation for a particle of mass m, moving in a potential U(x) where h,d & m are numbers decided using a random simulation, I'll be demanding them.

I find Air NZ attitude and customer service to be poor.

This has been my experience as well. I find the inflight staff to be anything from good to excellent, however the non inflight staff I have dealt with are uncaring.
Having said this, I will continue to fly NZ for the entire inflight experience and value received.

This has been my experience as well. I find the inflight staff to be anything from good to excellent, however the non inflight staff I have dealt with are uncaring.I've had indifferent through to excellent non-inflight staff - anything from some great people on the phone organising seats and joking around with me, through to taking over an hour on the phone from LA to rebook a LAX-AKL sector and basically blaming me for something NZ TravelCentre had done to my booking, and refusing any leniency at all. (It was going to cost me $300 in change fees to fly home in Economy on a Premium Economy ticket, because of the way TC had booked it).

Had checkin staff rebook me onto the next flight when I've missed my original flight on a FlexiSaver fare (ie. use-it-or-lose-it) 'because we value our *G pax'. Had extremely patronising staff at checkin as well, who assume that because I'm young I have no idea what I'm doing. "Do you know where the gates are, young man? It is quite a big airport..." (It's WLG, and did you notice the NZ*G on my BP and business class BP?)

I've also had good responses from the flightcomment address when I've raised other concerns....

I think it's endemic to NZ & AU as countries, rather than Air NZ in particular. We're too casual and laid back to raise much of a fuss publically over poor service.... so we suffer from it.

That said, the crew that are good and excellent really do make the airline stand out and I always make sure that feedback goes in about those crews and other staff I deal with. I want to encourage NZ to get all staff meeting those standards.

This has been my experience as well. I find the inflight staff to be anything from good to excellent, however the non inflight staff I have dealt with are uncaring.
Having said this, I will continue to fly NZ for the entire inflight experience and value received.

I think this is feedback that should be well read by Air NZ management.

I have always found Virgin Blue/Pacific Blue customer service to be outstanding. They go above and beyond what they need to do, which is why all my fights in Australia are with Virgin and not Qantas nor Jetstar.

So any reviews yet :)

I would love to hear any reviews too!!! Come on someone must have flown the new PE:) What food did you get? What amenities? can't wait to hear!:-:

Well the way this thread is going, I'll give a detailed review in about 19 days... A new pic that I just found on airwhingers.net though is interesting.

I asked ages ago when Air NZ refurbed the 744 if they installed "mood lighting" and the answer was no, but just found this pic of the 777. Yes I know it's a much newer plane but surpirsed to see it none the less

Clicky (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1158096/M/)

You can easily see the purple lighting in Business class, so now for my question.

Is the PE cabin on the 777 include with this lighting ??? I would assume so as the curtain is between Econony and PE ? ??

Oh and any PE reviews please :D

Well, I'm in the AKL Intl Koru Club this morning, waiting for my PE (22C) flight back to MEL, but I guess another Tasman report won't really help much :).

Small update - just into MEL now after a rather pleasant flight over. Economy was over-sold, and PE had 16 or so seats on the upper deck full. Not sure how many downstairs. Business on the upper deck had 2 seats in use.

In chatting with the crew, they let said that the March menu change could/should see some changes for the better on the Tasman routes for the Economy and Premium Economy classes, in particular around catering. It sounds promising.

Interestingly, this is the second time I've been in PE and been seated next to people receiving an on-board op-up.

Hi all

I flew the new PE HKG-AKL-HKG over Xmas and New Year, and was really impressed with the little touches they made. Here's a bit of a good / bad checklist:

Good

- Upstairs 747 cabin is really nice and cosy. Good atmosphere and with the exception of one very efficient but rather unfriendly FA, all of the FAs we had were extremely helpful, friendly and good humoured.
- Seats were fine (we were in Exit row for one leg). Don't quite know why people complain about the seat width, as it was absolutely fine.
- Pre flight drink: offered Veuve, Water or OJ before the flight. We were last on and the plane was supposedly about to take off, but the FA ensured that we were offered drinks before takeoff.
- Noise cancelling headsets were a nice touch. V similar to the Cathay business ones from memory
- Full service meal was excellent. Tray brought out with entree and dessert / bread plate. Hot bread served with entree, then mains choices brought around 10 mins later. Food quality was excellent (and thankfully nice and hot where appropriate). I think we got the same food as Business, but I couldn't be certain.
- AVOD selection was really good, something for everyone. Mine crashed for about 10 mins at the start of the flight, but restarted itself and was fine for the remaining 9 or so hours. I was thrilled to see that they even had a few rugby games on there, and I managed to watch the game of the century (according to me - July 2000 Bledisloe game in Sydney)
- Amenity kits were simple, but had everything you needed (toothpaste, socks, eye cover things for sleeping, ear plugs)
- Snack bar was good - nice mix of food (fresh fruit, chocolate, some water and a bit of wine)
- Premium checkin and immigration in Akl was good, although a tad slow given that it wasn't overly busy.
- After dinner mints with tea/coffee service were another nice touch.
- Food and drink in Akl koru lounge was excellent

Bad

Not really much was bad about the flight itself, but here are a few things that bugged me:

- One FA was admittedly very efficient, but extremely unfriendly. Perhaps with the plane delay she was a bit tired or something, but the others were delightful.
- In HKG Air NZ supposedly use the RCC lounge - which from all accounts is pretty good, esp compared to other RCC lounges. Strangely, we were given access to the CNAC lounge, which was miles from the Air NZ gate. It was far enough away that we just didn't bother going there. Disappointing, esp as the RCC was right next to the Air NZ departure gate. Didn't notice until after check in, so didn't say anything to the checkin agent.
- Intl Koru Lounge in Akl was a mixed bag. The food and beverage selection were excellent, and we greatly appreciated the "kiwi lolly" section by the tea and coffee. Although I'm no fuddy duddy, two things annoyed me greatly about the lounge. Firstly, the dress code was clearly not being taken seriously. I have always thought that "smart casual" was the Koru lounge dress code, but there were some seriously sloppy people there. A group of young guys (mid 20s) were sitting in there with their legs over the sides of the chairs, dressed in ripped jeans and hoodies, knocking back beer after beer after beer. I know it can't be easy to police something like that, but some of the people in there were seriously scruffy and really brought the look of the place down. My second gripe was with the number of screaming kids there were running around. I love children, but really felt that the number of them causing chaos in what is supposed to be a relaxing environment was disappointing. Parents' fault of course - most of them thought that the buffet and computer stations were good enough babysitters, but I was a little surprised that none of the lounge staff said anything to the parents of the kids. At one stage there were five of them running around playing tag or something, ages from 5ish to about 12. Highly irritating.

So, would I do it again? For longhaul - definitely. For the extra HK$3000 during normal season (so HK$1500 each way) it really made the flight a lot better. Plus - at Xmas it was the same price as a Cathay economy seat. We have decided that all future trips to NZ will be on PE, as we feel that the price difference really was worth it. Unless Cathay's new 2007 seats in Y are simply awesome, it's probably the end of our longhaul flights with Cathay to NZ.

Can't see us ever using it Trans-tasman though - short haul flights in Y are easily done in Y. I can certainly see our next trip to LHR being in PE though.

Very happy with the way Air NZ have improved the service.

March menu change ??

Ann Tyrol: Thanks for the review !! If you can what was the main meal and desert :)?

March menu change ??They change the menus quarterly (or so) - with the next one being in March.

I forgot to mention that we were given the same noise canceling headphones from Business on the flight this morning, which was a huge improvement over my last flight on 22/12.

Ann Tyrol, thanks for your update, it does sound like the product is getting a lot better.

I'm not so sure that the dress code thing in the Koru Club is a problem - I'm one of those mid 20s guys with jeans (sometimes torn, sometimes not) drinking beer in the lounge... I spend a lot of time (and someone else's money) on NZ flights; and I'd be rather miffed if they turned me away because of my attire. I completely agree about the kids though - although I've never seen a scene as bad as you describe.

Thanks Ann,

Well from your report it looks like the money I spent to fly PE in March to LAX will be money well spent, particulary since they have enhanced the product.

You mentioned you sat in the emergency exit upstairs - Could you see out the window okay?

ajnz - I didn't really want to seem like a fuddy duddy (I only just turned 30 and am an occasional wearer of the torn jeans...), but it was just a really rough look, and these chaps were in an extremely prominent part of the lounge. The T&C's do say smart casual, and although I'm usually against dress codes, I thought it really did bring down the tone of the lounge and the general ambience. It's tricky - esp on lang haul when it's important to dress comfortably. I guess I was a litle surprised, especially given that the Akl and Wgtn domestic Koru lounges were impeccable.

The kids thing was seriously irritating - thank goodness none of them made their way upstairs :)

AndDee - don't really remember so well but as far as I can recall:

Dinner to AKl - entree was sliced beef of some sort, dessert was fruit pie. Dinner options were beef (looked yum), tuna or some sort of fish (also looked good), or chicken (didn't see it sorry!). All meals served piping hot.

Breakfast to AKL- hmm, I don't recall, but I think I had pancakes.

Dinner to HK - entree was king prawns with a strange custard type blob. Not my thing, but prawns were good. Dessert was a chocolate cheesecake layered thing and was very good. Main choices were beef tenderloin, wok fried fish, or a Caesar salad. I had the beef, and it was great. Tea + coffee with after dinner mints. Yum.

Breakie to HK - choice of hot bread rolls / croissants / muffins first. Some fruit yoghurt which I didn't have and they also offered cereal (which I also didn't have). Hot food was three egg omlette with bacon, sausage, tomato OR another wok fried fish thing I think OR French Toast with streaky bacon,accompanied by apple and raisins. Very nice.

Food exceeded expectations, and I was particularly impressed by the variety of snacks left out and the fact that mini-bunches of grapes were individually wrapped so that you knew they hadn't been handled by a load of other passengers!

Kudos to Air NZ I must say.

Thanks Ann,

Well from your report it looks like the money I spent to fly PE in March to LAX will be money well spent, particulary since they have enhanced the product.

You mentioned you sat in the emergency exit upstairs - Could you see out the window okay?

Not really - the window seat had a window at around the 4 o'clock position (so a crooked neck view) but not a very good one.

Strange as it may sound, if you are travelling as a couple, I'd say that the JK seats NOT in the exit row are better. There is plenty of leg room in both the exit row seats and other seats, but your view in the exit row is of BP passengers - whereas your view in other JK seats is of the screen. Even when the seat is pushed right back, the tv is at a good distance and can be adjusted easily. I found that the exit row televisions weren't as adjustable as the back-of-seat ones. Plus the view in the other seats was better.

I am 5'10 and had more than enough leg room (as in there was plenty more if needed) when stretched out. Only minor issue is that when the seat in front is fully reclined, then the window seat person has a bit of a climb to get out to the aisle. No big deal though.

Two minor gripes with the AVOD - firstly if the control unit is secured in the armrest when you are using it, it is easy to lean on it and knock a button. Also, they turn it off about 1/2 hour before landing which is a pain. That said, they do give you a 15 minute warning that they are going to turn it off.

I'm not so sure that the dress code thing in the Koru Club is a problem - I'm one of those mid 20s guys with jeans (sometimes torn, sometimes not) drinking beer in the lounge... I spend a lot of time (and someone else's money) on NZ flights; and I'd be rather miffed if they turned me away because of my attire. I completely agree about the kids though - although I've never seen a scene as bad as you describe.But do you sit with your legs over the sides of the chairs?

Also does anyone think it would be a problem (clashing elbow's etc) for two persons sitting side by side typing on their laptop's?

Thanks again Ann for those most informative responses.

I am flying in 23K both ways but am thinking about trying downstairs for the LAX AKL sector. Mind you, I have a comp upgrade both ways. AKL LAX looks very dicey but the return looks promising but we know how things can change very quicky!!

Thanks again Ann for those most informative responses.

I am flying in 23K both ways but am thinking about trying downstairs for the LAX AKL sector. Mind you, I have a comp upgrade both ways. AKL LAX looks very dicey but the return looks promising but we know how things can change very quicky!!

22JK are the exit row seats on that side (they were changed a few months ago), but I personally think that if you are travelling with a companion, then 23JK are better. Just a slightly more intimate and private feel. We are travelling in PE long haul later in 2007 and have requested 23 or 24JK as we preferred them to the exit rows.

I didn't really get a good look at the cabin downstairs, but I really liked the feel of the upstairs cabin. Nice and quiet, and from my quick glances at the downstairs PE area, it seemed that there were more children down there.

Thanks for the report Ann Tyrol ^

- Intl Koru Lounge in Akl was a mixed bag. The food and beverage selection were excellent, and we greatly appreciated the "kiwi lolly" section by the tea and coffee. Although I'm no fuddy duddy, two things annoyed me greatly about the lounge. Firstly, the dress code was clearly not being taken seriously. I have always thought that "smart casual" was the Koru lounge dress code, but there were some seriously sloppy people there. A group of young guys (mid 20s) were sitting in there with their legs over the sides of the chairs, dressed in ripped jeans and hoodies, knocking back beer after beer after beer. I know it can't be easy to police something like that, but some of the people in there were seriously scruffy and really brought the look of the place down. My second gripe was with the number of screaming kids there were running around. I love children, but really felt that the number of them causing chaos in what is supposed to be a relaxing environment was disappointing. Parents' fault of course - most of them thought that the buffet and computer stations were good enough babysitters, but I was a little surprised that none of the lounge staff said anything to the parents of the kids. At one stage there were five of them running around playing tag or something, ages from 5ish to about 12. Highly irritating.

I think you were unlucky. I'm often in AKL int lounge and haven't seen kids running around like this once. It comes with travel at this time of year - get more locals who don't normally fly and also visitors, some of whom (eg from US) are not used to clubs and what is expected.

I must confess I do get annoyed with parents who dump kids on the computers to play games for ages while others have to wait to do their work or check emails. Doesn't happen in NZ lounges too often, thankfully.

But do you sit with your legs over the sides of the chairs?In the Koru Club, no. At home and at work, yes, often. And I fall off them, too...Also does anyone think it would be a problem (clashing elbow's etc) for two persons sitting side by side typing on their laptop's?Yes, this is quite likely in the ABC side on the 744; well, at least in the exit row. I've never been seated anywhere else so I can't judge completely, but certainly I notice that I have risked poking people a few times.

From what I've heard from colleagues who have taken PE on the 777, it's worse for side-by-side laptop use, presumably since the width is that much less. YMMV of course, and I can happily use my laptops in Economy with people next to me - it comes down to whether you have a giant oversized laptop, and how courteous you are, I think...

I'm flying PE SFO-AUK- MEL in about 2 weeks. Is the Koru Lounge included with my ticket?

Not unless you are *G or guest of a *G pax flying same day.

Just confirming that with a UA RCC membership you can access the MEL and LAX Air NZ lounges ? Of course when flying on Air NZ on the same day :)

Yes that is correct.

Route / Plane: NRT-AKL, 747
Day/Night flight: night
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 22A/B/C upper deck
Check in ok? yes
Seat comfort (width ok?) no. having just come off Virgin PE from London, the seats felt narrow and not comfrtable. Really feel NZ made a mistake cramming in 3+2 on the Upper Deck. Virgin's 2+2 is much better.
Legroom: as expected
Ease of getting in and out: bad for the window seat (3 of us travelling together, but as cabin was only 60% full, we were able to move around and have an empty middle seat).
Food: poor. this was mid-Dec a few days PRIOR to the new enhanced PE service.
Drink: same
FA attentiveness: poor. One male, one female. The woman FA spent a lot of time chatting quite loudly at the rear of the cabin - loud enough to keep me awake through earplugs. Looked vert put out when I asked her to tone it down.
AVOD: shocking. My seat had to be re-booted 4 times, my neighbour's 3 times during the flight. Also, the airshow (map) did not work at all. FA told me that this is a known issue every time a plane crosses the equator (??!!!) and it happens all the time. (see next report where the FSD told me she thought it was retro-fitting to 747s that was the problem). Also, the SELECT button had to be pressed repeatedly. Also, even when the map was working, you can't view anything else. Also, the FA told me there was no laptop power available. When I queried this, they came back and showed me that it was indeed there, low down between seats A and B (and partially blocked by the legrest! Lucky it was family down there!)
Would you do it again? Well, we had to, as we booked a Virgin-NZ joint ticket from LHR-AKL and return. But even before the next epxerience - probably not. I remember a time when NZ was special and great to come "home" to, but now it seems just so average. I recall being given a lot of information by flight deck, FA, checkin - everyone. Now it seems couldn't care less attitude prevails too often. Again, the FSD on the next flight blamed it on new management and cost-cutting. Obviously, any airline needs to make money, but the trick is to find ways of doing it while delivering superior service, and AirNZ is not there yet, IMHO.

Route / Plane: AKL-HKG 747, early Jan, so post-PE "enhancements".
Day/Night flight: night
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) last row of upper deck, so 24A/B/C i think.
Check in ok? No, no, NO! Ominous beginning. Went to the premium checkin area at AKL and was 2nd in line in the queue yet it was >45 minutes before we got served. There were only 2 check-in staff and I would guess they were having trouble juggling multiple families travelling together. A well-known NZ sporting hero with a party of 7 or 8, was one of the people in front of us having problems and was extremely unhappy with what they were being told, as were many other people in what became a lengthy line. Eventually, a supervisor appeared and started to apologise and after about an hour, 2 more staff appeared to open additional counters. Worse to come: having booked 9 months ago and requested seats together and been allocated 2+1 behind online, was stunned to be told we were all seated separately - including my 5yo daughter! Seems like they were making everyone unhappy. our check-in clerk seemed out of her depth and when we started to complain, refused to identify herself or her supervisor. We were told there was nothing could be done about seating but to ask at the departure gate (oh, and also, our upgrades had not come through, as the plane was "more than 10% over-sold"). We dutifully went to the gate, to find it deserted and when eventually it did open, we were given 2 seats together and told to try our luck trading with other passengers when we were onboard. (I pitied some other pax: "Can i talk to someone about my seat please?" said a guy behind us in the line. "you can talk" was the gruff and unhelpful answer from who I assume was the gate despatcher (?). !! Once on-board, the FA said "you ask, we get abused if we ask pax to move" so we did and someone desperate not to sit next to our kid, swapped with me.
Seat comfort (width ok?) poor.
Legroom: poor.
Ease of getting in and out: poor
Food: a joke. first, we were handed out Business Premier menus, only to have them snatched back by the FA and replaced by PE menus with near-identical selections. they then gave us trays with salad but forgot to offer hot mains or bread. FAs said that meals in AKL had been incorrectly loaded with Economy instead of PE. It seems that PE food is really the same as Business Premier, unless there isn't enough of anything, when it's not! Also, FA didn't know what food they were offering, ie leaned over and said "special meal?" and when I said "is that a child's meal?" response was "I don't know, i just give them out". !!
Drink: as with food, forgot to offer any wine.
FA attentiveness: poor, see above. FSD came to talk to me but what are they going to do? They can't offer you an upgrade, won't give you money off or points.. it's often not their fault (see management, cost-cutting comments above). One FA looked exasperated with all the complaints (i would say 80% of the cabin was unhappy, re split-up seating, downgrades to economy in one case, etc) and said it was the worst flight he'd seen in 20 years. I hope for Air NZ's sake, that was true.
AVOD: worse. whole system had to be re-booted after 30 mins (and get this for a PA announcement: "Those of you on the left of the plane might have noticed a problem with.... the entertainment system..." I saw more than a few anxious glances out the window at that point from people who obvously thought we'd lost an engine or wing or something!). Airshow did not work at all after the reboot. System was slow throughout. Thank goodness for my laptop and DVDs.
Would you do it again?. No, no, no. The whole experience of these two flights and the direct comparison with Virgin on a 340-600 back to London the next day means it is doubtful if we will travel on NZ ever again, if there is an alternative.

Sorry to be so negative, but making 30+ flights a year for business and a RTW with family to NZ at least once a year for the last 5 years, across Cathay, Qantas, BA, United and Virgin this was the worst experience we've had.

Wowo gbogo that sounds terrible. Have you provided Air NZ with feedback so they can improve?

That would be enough to put one off for life!

Especially as the service is really the only selling point for Premium Economy, as they squished the seats in too many across [especially on the 777].

If you haven't already sent in a letter, flightcomment@airnz.co.nz generally works best.

Wow, what a bummer. I must have gotten extremely lucky :confused:

Re the Akl Premium checkin area, while it was a nice touch, I do recall it was awfully slow given that there was only us and one other couple waiting to check in. THere were 3 or 4 agents, but for some reason they were taking ages.

I purchased Premium Economy tickets in 2005 and 2006, and have again for 2007, but only as a means of getting Confirmed Upgrades to Business Premier at a decent price from a U class ticket.

The upgrade of the food offering is basically a desperate measure to try to disguise the fact that the narrow seat is just a disgrace, absolutely crap.

From Australia you can buy cheaper Premium Economy seats to London on Virgin Atlantic and Air Mauritius which are of near-Business Class width.

If the airline had honoured its promise that Premium Economy would cost 25% more than Economy that would be OK. But it turns out that they meant 100% more than the cheapest Economy ticket (due to the dishonest pretext that "we meant full-fare economy, not discount economy").

Upstairs on the 747 should be 2-2, not the current 3-2, and on the 777 it should be 2-3-2, not 3-3-3.

I'll continue to buy Premium Economy tickets, but only while I can simultaneously confirm upgrades to Business Premier at the time of purchase. I would never want to sit in that crappy seat!

Interesting comments so far re the seat - I found the 747 upstairs seat plenty wide enough (with my only minor niggle being that the AVOD handset is easily bumped if you leave it in the side of the seat.

I haven't flown on Virgin's PE though so I have nothing to compare to.

AT

Well I would have to say it's doing well for Air NZ, I mean they expanded it on their 744 a few months ago.

Seems that bookings are pretty strong as well for the next few months.

Things can always be better, but at this stage (haven't flown it yet) the extra recline and 8inches of pitch when compared to 32inch is worth it.

I will make alot more comments in a few weeks once I have actually flown it

As for the cost being cheaper to the UK on Virgin Premium Economy, all fares are cheaper to the UK from Australia when compared to the USA from Australia.

Given that this is Air NZ's first go at Premium Economy I am very interested to see what they do with in the 787's.

Interesting comments so far re the seat - I found the 747 upstairs seat plenty wide enough (with my only minor niggle being that the AVOD handset is easily bumped if you leave it in the side of the seat.However on the 777 your seat is the same width as economy. If they put in Premium Economy in a 2-4-2 configuration not only would every passenger only have to hop over a maximum of 1 person to get into the aisle, everyone would also have their own arm-rests.

Anyone got any more reviews?. Will be flying SYD AKL LAX & vv in about 10 days with a review to follow.

Yes will do a review in the next day or so :)

Chalk me up as a big fan of Premium Economy on the 744 (a waste of time on the Tasman, of course although it offers a great alternative to Biz. As an experiment, I did my last LA trip up in Biz and back in PE, and arrived back in NZ feeling pretty good).

The only thing I notice is that the crew serving both Biz and PE are clearly rushed off their feet on full flights, and I fear for their sanity when the upcoming expansion of PE downstairs is complete..one FA I talked to on my last trip mentioned there were going to be changes to try and accomodate the increased passengers without any extra crew, such as using the trolleys in the cabin again as they used to do in the old Biz.

Just got back from an 8 week trip to NZ and OZ and I have to say being in PE on LAX-AKL and back was worth every cent! Yes the seats could have been a little wider but everything else was faultless. Food great, wine was flowing, service attentive.

Just flew LAX-AKL on NZ5 in PE (upstairs). Food great and plentiful, wine great, service somewhat rushed but friendly, seats OK but a step up from Economy. Worth the additional expense ... but - to echo the sentiment of an early poster here - seeing the lie flat seats up close creates a definite sense of envy. Saving the pennies and points to try one of those next time! ^

- AG

I've said it before but I'll say it again - I think it's great value, esp ex-HKG.

An economy ticket return HKG-AKL-HKG including all taxes is about HK$7k - $7.5k, but for any extra HK$3k (so only 1500 each way) you can get a quieter cabin (esp upstairs in 747), more legroom, and J class food and wine. I'm not counting priority boarding as a benefit, as by the time you count *GE, *G, BP, PE and KC, priority boarding still means you're in a fairly decent length queue. Priority disembarking is good though.

Since I rarely travel alone (I don't do any business travel) the privacy BP seats don't appeal to me. I don't usually get more than 3 hours sleep on these legs and the PE seat is fine for that - don't need a flat bed. Plus, the BP seat configuration is such that from what I have seen, if you want to talk to your flying companion you have to make sure you have a pretty flexible neck. Not for me - I found that the PE seats and service are on the money. Sounds like they are selling extremely well too.

Route / Plane AKL-LAX / 747. Deliberately chose NZ6 over NZ2 to get the 747 over the 777 and to sit upstairs. The two rows of 3-3-3 on the 777 still fail to provide any appeal whatsoever.
Day/Night flight NZ6 dep AKL 8pm ish. A short connection time so no time in the lounge. On time departure and arrival.
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 23A; port side window, second row back. Not my first choice, and not even in my top 10. Made worse by the antics of the clown in 24A; he couldn't stand without yanking on the seat back, and stretched his feet right out on the under-window lockers to recline which meant socks 30cm from my head and an occasional kick to my armrest.
Check in ok? As expected.
Seat comfort (width ok?) As expected, but I'll concur with other posters that it really would be nice if the seat was a little wider.
Legroom Fine for me, but that leg-rest remains totally useless.
Ease of getting in and out As expected.
Food Of 3 dinner choices only two were left by the time they got to row 23. Chose the lamb over the chicken and it was edible - nothing more. Breakfast of scrambled eggs / omelette was good.
Drink As expected.
FA attentiveness It's certainly obvious that they're pressed for time with serving the same meals to both upstairs cabins.
AVOD Watched the Borat movie - very funny. Slept most of the remaining time.
Would you do it again? Yes.
Fare $3,699 versus a minimum $2,399 available in E by the time I booked. Worth the extra $1,300? Not if it was coming out of my own pocket.


But of course the problem with having experienced again the higher quality that PE offers over E is that it's becoming my minimum expected standard! Was this PE experience great? No. Did it beat sitting downstairs? Oh yes . . .

Route / Plane LAX-AKL / 747.
Day/Night flight NZ5 dep LAX 11pm ish. 3+ hours in the LAX Koru lounge after domestic connections. I like this lounge, though it was very full - especially of Virgin and Air France (?) pax.
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 25J; starboard side aisle, last row. If not in the bulkead row any J seat would be my preference - so I was more than happy. 25/26ABC contained a family comprising Grandma, Aunty, Mum and three toddlers; maybe 5, 3 and 18 months. All very well behaved and the toddlers appeared to sleep very well in those seats.
Check in ok? Very good. Checked bag was being connected, immigration card was taken at service centre in T2 gate pier, lounge dragon happily swapped my 23A pre-assignment for 25J.
Seat comfort (width ok?) Fine. Had pre-departure drink, then slept right through meal service until about 2.5 hours out.
Legroom Fine.
Ease of getting in and out No problems from aisle, chap in 25K only got out once.
Food Missed dinner. Breakfast was probably good - but not memorable.
Drink As expected.
FA attentiveness Very good. Had a wee chat with them before breakfast about the combined meal service. One wasn't looking forward to having more PE seats added with no likely increase in crew numbers.
AVOD Won $1m on WWTBAM.
Would you do it again? Yes.

As above, I like this class of service very much, and am not looking forward to ever having to go back to E on these 12 hour sectors.

...stretched his feet right out on the under-window lockers to recline which meant socks 30cm from my head and an occasional kick to my armrest.

This would have driven me insane. I would have repeatedly reached into the bins while he slept so he'd have to wake up and move his feet as often as possible.

This would have driven me insane. I would have repeatedly reached into the bins while he slept so he'd have to wake up and move his feet as often as possible.

Happened to me on my last flight, luckily they did not smell and he looked comforatable so I couldn't bear to annoy him :)

Route / Plane AKL-LAX / 747. Deliberately chose NZ6 over NZ2 to get the 747 over the 777 The two rows of 3-3-3 on the 777 do not appeal at al.

Check in
At SYD was excellant for 767 across to AKL. Assigned BP and US Immigration card.

Day/Night flight NZ6 departed AKL an hour late and gate arrival problems at LAX but no drama as had no onward connections.



Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 24K window. Loved the added pitch but thought the width was a bit tight. Storage bins was a real bonus.


Catering

Pre departured bubbly in plastic but glasses after departure. 3 choices but was so tired cannot recall what I had.
Breakfast of omelette was terrible but plenty of cereal and fruit.
.

FA's
Friendly but very busy indeed. 3rd FA from lower deck assisted during both meal services.


AVOD Watched the Breakfast at Tiffanys - very good. Slept most of the remaining time.

Would you do it again?

Most definently - well worth the money. It's pretty much J class without the lie flat bed. However, would not bother PE on the Trans Tasman.

Mr Sydney: Again you raise the same points that most people do, and I hope that Air NZ take note of this for future planning and the 787 :) I left very similar comments on their comment card they handed around during my last flight

The 3-3-3 seating on the 777 in Y+ is not worthwhile, cramped and not worth the extra $, as you said you deliberatly chose the 744 over the 777 for that reason

Seat width, not quite what you would expect in a premium econony seat, for me it was fine, but would have liked a bit wider

The crew are very busy now and yes the F/A from downstairs does come to help for meal service, I thought I may have dreamt that last time!

Pre-departure bubbly in plastic still, not really a huge fan of this, but still nice to have 2-3 glasses (yes managed to get a few refils) while waiting for the Y passengers to board ;)

So Air NZ please take note of this, you are very good to respond to customers in the past and I know at least one person working there, who doesnt post on this forum but does read it :p :p

Change the 777 to
2-3-2 seating in Y+, increase width if possible
Lower the Y+ fare from MEL-YVR, there is no way that an extra $ 2477.40 which is basically double the fare can be justified on the 777. Even for that price in the 744 is a bit high.

Return Flights in $AUD:
MEL-YVR = Cheapest Economy Fare = $2202.36
MEL-YVR = Cheapest Premium Economy Fare = $4679.76
(112% extra for Y+)

MEL-LAX = Cheapest Economy Fare = $2082.96
MEL-LAX = Cheapest Premium Economy Fare = $3849.94
(84% extra for Y+)

A huge difference in the fares for these two routes
Y fare difference $119.40
Y+ fare difference $829.82

Sorry for the long post :)

AndDee

I was chatting to a couple of people at the LAX lounge and they were saying when flying PE they deliberately avoid the 777 for the above reasons. Plus the 777 has less FA's than on other airlines (not sure the exact figures). Have spoken to a few FAs and while they love the a/c, they say, there are not enough FA's.

I have noticed the AKL LAX AKL sector reverts back to a 744 for both flights from October. Good news for those flying PE to LAX but not so good for those flying to YVR.

2-4-2 in Y+ on the 777 would suffice - every passenger would be one seat from the aisle and there would be enough space to have increase the seat width by less than an inch to match the 747, while also adding an four or so inch's onto each armrest that is shared between two passengers (and of course the seat cushion here can go in under the armrest a bit [depending on the design]).

The likelihood of them doing that seems very low though - as they would have to replace all the seats, shift a bulkhead, and would end up with two less seats onboard as a result.

AndDee

I was chatting to a couple of people at the LAX lounge and they were saying when flying PE they deliberately avoid the 777 for the above reasons.

I've also heard this many times. I will not fly PE on the 777. Not only are the seats 3-3-3 but there are only 2 rows in a tiny cabin. Upstairs on the 744 is just so much better for the same price.

If Air NZ were to increase the number of rows and change the seating to 2-3-2 or some other configuration, then I would consider trying again.
(not sure about a 2-4-2 configuration ntddevsys, as a block of 4 seats sounds like, hmm, economy!)

2-4-2 not that appealing, sounds worse than economy!
2-3-2 would be the limit in my books

I would be interested to see the bookings and then actual loads on the MEL-YVR flight in Y+. Again for the price difference and the currenty 777 set-up it just doesn't add up in my books

hmm... well it is still economy. However one less seat across would add to the percieved value, would add to comfort as large wide armrests could be installed, seat cushions could be wider. Furthermore it would be better than the current 747 offering, but not quite a United Business Class seat. I don't follow the logic that it sounds worse than economy.

You can't expect them to knock out four seats and cut the price at the same time :confused:

Yes yes I know :) 2-4-2 would be more workable, but moving the bulkhead would be a fair large tast and unlikely to be done!

hmm... well it is still economy. :

It is supposed to be more than economy, especially for the extra cost. Economy on the 777 is 3-3-3, so it has to be better than that, IMO, which is why 2-3-2 would be better.
Of course the extra leg room is great in PE.

You can't expect them to knock out four seats and cut the price at the same time :confused:

Happy to pay the current price for PE.

I also believe that the 2-row cabin for PE is a joke. It looks very restrictive, sardines in a can:eek:
To be honest, I have only used BP on the 777 and not used PE. On the 744, PE upstairs is fine and have used it lots (right side of plane only though).

It is supposed to be more than economy, especially for the extra cost. Economy on the 777 is 3-3-3, so it has to be better than that, IMO, which is why 2-3-2 would be better.
Of course the extra leg room is great in PE.



Happy to pay the current price for PE.

I also believe that the 2-row cabin for PE is a joke. It looks very restrictive, sardines in a can:eek:
To be honest, I have only used BP on the 777 and not used PE. On the 744, PE upstairs is fine and have used it lots (right side of plane only though).

Well I am sure if PE was popular on the 777 they would extend it like they are doing for a 2nd time on the 744. For those that are not aware the first few rows of economy on the right side of the plane (Engine 3/4) are going to be replaced with PE seats so downstairs will be 2 on the left and 2 on the right. Obviously the demand/profit is there so they are responding.

As for the 777, Air NZ designed it with lower yeild routes in mind, but seems to have made it onto other routes in the meantime, but Air NZ are going back to the 744 on the AKL-LHR route, due to lack of PE and Business seating from what I have heard/read.

For the non-experienced traveller, assuming they are a pair/couple, it would be a very different experience being on the 777 versus the 744.

All we can do it give more and more feedback to Air NZ about the dislike of the current 777 and hope that it improves. However, the only real way it would change is if Air NZ can see that more money would be made by either:

Changing the seat pitch/width/layout on the 777
Reducing the fares on the 777 in PE

In order to remove 4 seats and leave the current PE setup, it would result in an increase in the current PE pricing, which is not desirable

Well I am sure if PE was popular on the 777 they would extend it like they are doing for a 2nd time on the 744. I wonder how much of this is self-fulfilling? Where both aircraft exist on a popular route, and where pax considering PE or BP are probably more aware of seat configurations, those pax are deliberately choosing the 747 over the 777. This makes PE appear more popular on the 747, so they add more seats, which makes it more popular again.

I wonder how much of this is self-fulfilling? Where both aircraft exist on a popular route, and where pax considering PE or BP are probably more aware of seat configurations, those pax are deliberately choosing the 747 over the 777. This makes PE appear more popular on the 747, so they add more seats, which makes it more popular again.Quite true.

Regardless of the average yield of the route the aircraft operates passengers still have a choice. And there will be some that spend a 13 hour flight clashing elbows with the person next to them, and will decide - no, not worth the 83 % premium next time (even if the next route they want to fly is operated by a 747).

It is supposed to be more than economy, especially for the extra cost. Economy on the 777 is 3-3-3, so it has to be better than that, IMO, which is why 2-3-2 would be better.You imply that 2-4-2 is no better than 3-3-3?

You imply that 2-4-2 is no better than 3-3-3?

Not at all.

When one looks at a seat map for the 777, one sees 3-3-3 for both E and PE. So what extra is one gaining in PE, no obvious seat width advantage? To have 2-3-2 would look more appealing, and would be so if the PE seat was wider. The 2-4-2 would have the advantage of better aisle access, as you pointed out.
I also think there would be significant marketing advantages in a 3-2-3 configuration. Market perception of increased space is important. Even if the PE seat wasn't wider in a 2-3-2 configuration, giving the impression of space can easily persuade people to pay the extra for PE. This is also why I suggested increasing the number of rows to make a bigger PE cabin.
A challenge for Air NZ (marketing maybe): PE is supposed to be a premium product, so create the reality that it is "premium economy", worth the extra $ on the 777.
I suspect that if PE was re-configured in the 777 then uptake would likely increase, as is the case on the 744.

When one looks at a seat map for the 777, one sees 3-3-3 for both E and PE. So what extra is one gaining in PE, no obvious seat width advantage? To have 2-3-2 would look more appealing, and would be so if the PE seat was wider. The 2-4-2 would have the advantage of better aisle access, as you pointed out.
I also think there would be significant marketing advantages in a 3-2-3 configuration. Market perception of increased space is important. Even if the PE seat wasn't wider in a 2-3-2 configuration, giving the impression of space can easily persuade people to pay the extra for PE. This is also why I suggested increasing the number of rows to make a bigger PE cabin.
While I agree with the rest of your post - I would question what 3-2-3 has to offer over 2-4-2?

One thing I really like aboard the single-aisle aircraft with conventional seats is the great big fat 20cm or so wide centre armrest - it would add to the percieved greatness of the product if every shared arm-rest in premium economy was like that. Plus the seat cushion could be widened slightly too (to bring it up to the 747 level - the 747 seat cushion is only 3 or 4 cm narrower than the J one, on the A320), while only dropping one seat.

Of course the likihood of this happening is very very low... instead of making changes to the seat when the extended the cabin on the 747 they just changed the menu, but I digress...

While I agree with the rest of your post - I would question what 3-2-3 has to offer over 2-4-2?



Oops , I meant 2-3-2, not 3-2-3.
And yes, chances of these suggestions ever coming through are remote.

Also 1st NZ flight so this is just our general opinion.
We departed LAX 31 March on NZ5 747. Check in @ BP check in was quick with the only problem not being able to get our boarding pass from AKL to MEL. Going through security at LAX is a nightmare at best. Complete confusion, TSA was really chaotic. Once boarded, we sat in seats 22 JK LAX/AKL. The extra leg room is nice, but not having room to store carry on bags is not great. Service on this flight was super, all FA were efficient and pleasant, food and wine was plentiful and good. The AVOD was nice to have and worked with no problems. BP and PE upstairs at least were both full. On landing in AKL we were held on the runway due to some security problem in the terminal, but managed to catch our 777 flight NZ7 to MEL. I have to agree that the PE on this aircraft is somewhat lacking. We had seats 23AB but no one in C so we had plenty of room except for the bulkhead which limited leg room. Food on this flight was pretty basic. I also agree that I would not pay extra again for PE in a 777 until improvements are made. Going through customs, etc. at MEL was a breeze. Only issue: one of my bags did not make it. Seems it was left behind in LAX. I did receive it 2 days later.
Side Note: we had a wonderful time in Melbourne and surrounding area visiting my daughter and son-in-law. What a nice place. Getting through security at MEL was actually pleasant, a much better experience then LAX.
Going home we were lucky to have access to the NZ lounge in MEL. A very nice place to spend our waiting time. The flight to AKL NZ8 on 777 was similar to other 777 flight over, competent but not outstanding. After a short wait in AKL airport, we boarded NZ6 747 and this time sat downstairs in row 29AC. This area does feel a bit more cramped then upstairs, but not overly so. Service again was efficient but food was not quite as good as the flight over, and AVOD worked with no problems. This flight also seemed to be full. I saw no empty seats. My personal choice would be PE upstairs in JK seats. For a short flight I do not think the extra cost of PE is worth it in a 777. NZ does need to look at improving this area. But in general, I would not complain much, as we had to fly on CRJ-200 UAL from Oregon to Calif. and back. Talk about cramped seating. But, flights were short and crew very nice. As we live in the valley of Oregon, we usually have to fly smaller aircraft to get anywhere. Not having flown the pacific area before, I have no way to compare, but I was pleased with NZ and would fly again anytime.

I was booked Y on NZ 8 MEL - AKL yesterday on a 777, and as I normally leave using my complementary upgrades to the last moment, I have missed using them, so I decided to upgrade and roadtest PY in view of the comments on this thread, and hopefully make a useful contribution. Unfortunately (?) PY was full, and I was bumped up to Business Premium.

I did have a quick look at PY, and indeed it does appear to be rather cramped.

OT, however I had the opportunity to revisit Business Premium, which I did on a SIN - MEL flight last year. I have to say that for a day flight, the leg room left something to be desired ( I am 6ft 1 in the old measure) For overnight flights however, it would still be unbeatable. The service was excellent, although the wine selection was very limited.

I did business both ways, and I will post the menus and some comments on the thread in this forum relating to food.

Mr Sydney.... thanks for the info about 747's doing BOTH AKL-LAX flights from October... that explains (presumably) why their website lists that aircraft for NZ 2.. rather than the expected 777..

Hope that IS the case on 2 Oct!!!

I booked PE on NZ 2 and NZ 1 in a fit of madness it seems.. (WHY didn't I think!!!:confused: )..

If that means we only have the 777 coming home then that is an improvement.. thought we had it both ways! (Why didn't I book the 747!!!.. think I might change the booking........ as I am escorting my dear old Mum on this trip the $$$ penalties are less important than the comfort...

I travelled upstairs in PE before the upgrade of food service.. and was very comfortable...

Travelled over last month in 30A... and loved the seat and "cabin" (felt very private indeed.. 8 seats)! Food service was much improved too.. the "champagne or orange juice" on boarding came as a surprise (I didn't know about the new menu's etc...)

Staff were mainly older men.. as someone else here experienced.. but very competent and helpful... friendly if engaged in conversation.. quiet and "butler-like" otherwise. I was impressed.. but then I generally have been with ANZ onboard staff....

For me it'll be the 747... in the main deck PE "cabin" from now on...

Although I DID get a standby upgrade coming home in the 777 last month (see.. it CAN happen:D ) and that was ... "rather nice".... so I'll be putting in for that each time... never know your luck!

And a question!!! Seriously... which PE seats should I request on the 777 flight???? (Just in case I can't change flights) All opinions welcome!

Thanks!

Trooper

Yous should be fine for 2 Oct as that flight is showing as a 744. International timetables usually change aroung March and October though with the changes to daylight saving in both Australia and NZ this may change.

Cheers

Thanks Mate,

I haven't rung in seating requests yet (WHY can't we pick them online when booking!!! Waaaah!!;) ) so I'll try to absolutely/positively confirm that then...

And see about changing the flight home... fares for that flight are still the same - through the ANZ booking engine anyway- as I paid so it should just be the 150+50 each for the change... if it was just me I'd chalk it up to experience.. but with Mum along...if the 777 isn't as comfortable in PE.. and that seems to be the consensus... then I better change!

This website is a REAL resource.. particularly for us l;ess experienced travellers....:)

Trooper

As posted before, by all means if possible, go with the 747. Be mindful of the stairs to upper deck, they are somewhat steep and narrow. Also, when I made my reservations back in July for my recent trip, I made seat requests in PE, but these were changed 3 times before my flight. Probably not common, but it did happen. Air New Zealand only told me that they do not guarantee seat assignments :confused: . Good luck.

And with ANZ check in at Sydney now handled by Qantas (?) it seems harder than ever to ensure you get the seats you want out of AKL...

Ah well.. we'll see how we go....

I've been in PE both upstairs and down... and I really lean towards 27-30 A/C on the main deck.... personal preference I suppose!!!

The worst thing on this trip is that I can't even put in for upgrades.... I don't have the Airpoints "status" to "gift" and try for an upgrade for Mum.... so there is no way I'll be putting in for them myself... THAT would be a "nice" move wouldn't it??:( :rolleyes: :p

So... more important still to get on the 744......

Since no-one has done a complete mini-review for a while.... So you get an idea of my expectations, I fly Y+ on UA quite a bit, and have flown Y on NZ in the past.

Route / Plane: LHR-HKG 747
Day/Night flight: night
Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 23C upper deck, aisle
Check in ok? yes - there was no queue at LHR for check-in at all (even for Y, it seemed)
Seat comfort (width ok?): i had no-one sitting next to me (the flight was not full, there were 3 empty PE seats upstairs), so the width wasn't a problem. The recline is excellent. I put the seat rest up; it might not be obvious, but you can pull out the lower section (metal bar) and kick it up higher; however, I'm 5'10 and that meant my calves were resting on a 2" wide bar, which was not comfortable. I tried putting the pillow under them, but it wasn't wide enough. In the end, I slept v. well with the footrest in the highest position, with my feet flat on the bottom of the rest (legs together and bent).

Legroom: it's fine. The earlier comments regarding the window seats: you can put your feet up on the storage boxes, which seemed v. comfortable.

Ease of getting in and out: if the row in front have their seats reclined, forget it. However, the seats seem quite sturdy, and leaning on the seats doesn't seem to have much of an effect (happened to me a few times, but barely noticed it).

Food: NZ food has always been very good (in comparison with other Y offerings). Starter of salad, main options were lamb shank (which I thought was very good), wok-seared cod, or a chicken dish. Dessert was cheesecake (good) + cheese and biscuits, plus what I thought was a large glass of port! (compared to a normal port / sherry glass). Breakfast was fruit plate + cereal + croissant/toast + hot dish (I had chicken noodles which were fine) + tea/coffee.



Drink: copious amounts of tea/coffee after dinner. pre-flight drinks (included something white, sparkling and alcoholic :) ). The menu card mentioned the 42 below cocktails, but I didn't try one


FA attentiveness: Two french LHR-based females. The dinner service seemed a bit of a shambles -- it took a long time to sort out the main course. However, personally, I quite liked it as I don't like being rushed through meals.

AVOD: Noise-cancelling headphones. Choice of movies was okay, but some things didn't seem available even though they appeared on the menus (NZ - Eng Rugby game from 2005). It isn't responsive, but they did make an announcement to do things slowly when they switched it on. The airshow is very pretty, but not very useful - the ETA isn't updated during the flight, and they don't show altitude, so you don't know how far through the descent you are. (And you can't listen to music at the same time). They switched the main entertainment system off (leaving only the pretty, but useless airshow) and stole the headphones at the top of the descent.

Would you do it again? Yes. I wasn't paying, though. I don't know what you get in Y, but the eyeshades were better than any other Y offering (if such a thing exists), and eyeshades + earplugs + n/c headphones = 6 hours v. solid sleep. The food was fine, and I think that the service is that much better than Y (you don't have to rush through your meal, because they can -- and often do -- walk through the cabin to remove used dishes/cups etc. when you're done with them). The cabin was also very quiet -- no kids, and the toilet/pax ratio is much better than Y.

Put it this way, I would happily take PE over BP, regardless of who was paying. The only thing (significant to me) that would make BP worthwhile is lounge access (I'm not *G), but not worth the difference in fare.

At the time of booking, it was £1200 r/t LHR-HKG, which was £800 cheaper than the BA offering (which is quite a similar product). There is a lot of competition for LHR-HKG (11 flights each way / day), so Y fares are cheap as chips; so , if I were doing on my own money, probably i would take Y.

But, overall, I think it is a good product, but it is quite pricey compared with Y (which is itself v. good by comparison, and certainly much better than Y+ on UA).

Dave

Just to confirm...

I rang NZ today to make seating requests... spoke to a GEM of an emplyee by the name of Emma... Kiwi accent and all.... VERY competent and helpful!

Was only on hold for a couple/three minutes as well....

NZ 2 and NZ 1 in October are BOTH 744...... ^ ^ ^

Route/Plane: AKL-LAX -NZ5
Day//Night: Night
Seat:23C upper deck, aisle
Check in: Checked in Sydney not the best experience, first and only time my carry on has been weighted, check in person not friendly
Seat Comfort: Width wasn't a problem as i'm skinny, recline good, Foot Bar useless as everyone else has said, but i still had it out/up as it seemed to extend the seat cushion 1-2 cm. I also got a 5-6 hrs of sleep (a first in who knows how many flights)

Legroom: excellent i could extend my legs out with touching the seat in front (another first (i'm 6ft)
Ease of getting in and out: good i had the asile, not so good for the middle,window

Food: EXECELLENT,
STARTER
Manuka poached king prawns with fennel, baby curly endive, mango and dill dressing
MAIN: Roast fillet of New Zealand beef with a blue cheese and oxtail ravioli, steamed potatoes, green beans with hazelnuts and paprika tomato broth
Confit chicken thigh with currant and chicken mousse, herb butter, vine ripened tomato and mushroom rocket risotto
42 Below vodka marinated and caramelised salmon with asparagus, kaffir lime mash, citrus crème fraiche and watercress
- I Had the Steak which wasn't bad
DESERT:
Apple and black doris plus tart with titoki liqueur cream
Cheese
A selection of fine New Zealand cheese -tried but I'm not a fan of cheese


BREAKFAST
Beverages
Start your day with a fruit smoothie, your choice of juice, freshly brewed or decaffeinated coffee, tea, herbal tea or hot chocolate
Fruit and Cereal
Fruit selection with assorted cereals and yoghurts
Bakery
Croissants, muffins, wholemeal and fruit toast with fruit conserve
Hot Breakfast
Smoked chicken pesto and parmesan omelette with breakfast potatoes and chicken sausage
Didn't have the hot stuff but the rest was great

Drinks- pre-flight drinks (choice was sparkling white wine, orange juice or water) OJ was good, Dinner- i had chardonnay (ok a few glasses) Didn't try the 42 below cocktails

FA attentiveness- AWESOME- very quick, personable - just really great service

AVOD- Great movie & tv selection, Noise canceling headphones work as well as my Bose QC2s (yes i tested them back to back) Watched "the holiday" then fell a sleep and then watched "the purist of perfection" and a few tv shows. They switched the main entertainment system off (leaving only the air show, i liked the animation of the flight plan ) and took the headphones at the top of the descent.

Would you do it again?
Based on service,food,space,cabin being quiet -no kids,and the toilet/pax ratio is much better than Y and fact i slept for the 1st in time in dozens of flights in Y the answer would be YES, but NZ don't fly direct from syd to LAX and i'm not a fan of the 3hr lay over in AKL (the flight from syd-akl is not that good)

ROUTE/PLANE: SFO-AKL 777 NZ7
Day/Night - Night into day
Seat no: 23c Asile,
Checkin: Empty due to the problem of the in bound flight having to turn around and head back to AKL so we were delalyed (scheduled departure was 9:15pm we left at 2:45am) i checked in at 9:15 and had to be re booked on a later flight from AKL to SYD due to the delay out of SFO , but it was a much better experience than in Sydney, i also received a food voucher to use at SFO,the problem was only 1 restaurant was open that accepted the voucher and it closed at 11pm (the airport bar was closed)

Seat Comfort: Ok not great, seats were noticeably narrower than the 747 and i'm not a fat person but the legroom was great (unlimited due to being in the door way)

Ease of getting in and out: easy aisle and the doorway seat

Food:

Dinner

STARTER
Cress and frisee salad with duck prosciutto, tangerine, toasted hazelnuts and whit truffle honey vinaigrette

MAIN COURSE

New Zealand lamb cutlet and lamb bolognese with green garlic risotto, garlic roasted tomato and artichoke

Seared cod with Dungeness crab chowder and parmesan, thyme and parsley croutons

Wood roasted chicken breast with olive oil whipped potatoes, baby broccoli and lemon cipollini onion confit

i had the chicken ,wasn't to bad but the Chardonnay wasn't as good as the bottle out of AKL (to LAX) , on a side note: not many people had dinner, an announcement was made at the start of the flight " if want to goto sleep but want dinner put your tray table down"


DESSERT
can't remember

CHEESE

A selection of fine New Zealand cheese

BEVERAGES

Freshly brewed or decaffeinated Gravity coffee, tea, herbal tea or hot chocolate

SNACKS

Help yourself from our wide range of snacks, available for you to enjoy during your flight



Breakfast


BEVERAGES

Start your day with a fruit smoothie, your choice of juice, freshly brewed or decaffeinated Gravity coffee, tea, herbal tea or hot chocolate

CONTINENTAL SELECTION

Fruit selection with assorted cereals and yoghurts

Croissants, friands, white and wholemeal toast with fruit conserve

HOT OPTIONS

Smoked chicken pesto and parmesan omelette with breakfast potatoes and chicken sausage

(again didn't have the hot stuff, but everything else was good)

Drink:
Tea Coffee was offered after dinner and breakfast, chardonnay wasn't that good, and the 42 below cocktails weren't offered

FA attentiveness
ok not great, no were near as good as what i had expected (especially compared to previous flights). The service manager came around a personally apologized for the delay and explained why there was a delay which i thought was nice touch

AVOD: Great as Usual, watched a few movies & tv shows in between a few hrs sleep

Would you do it again? on this experience alone no,the flight was delayed ( i know but it all contributed to a bad experience ) the service from the FAs was ok not great, there was screaming babies back in economy,the seat was narrower and had no power port, in short it felt like having an exit row seat back in economy and wasn't worth the extra money.

The 747 experience on the other hand is well worth the money if your on the upper deck as you're away from the masses the seat is wider (so it quieter) the service seemed better.

So would i do it again, but only on the upper deck of the 747 and if the layovers between the Sydney and Auckland flights are less (i had really bad layover experiences with this trip around America) then hell yes, otherwise it would be really hard to get me to say yes again

Well now that Qantas has launched their premium economy and made all the details public, I am very interested to see what Air NZ do to combat this, if anything.

Qantas has stated
19.5 seat width - 1inch more than the 744 and nearly 2inches more than the 777
42 inch seat pitch, 2-4 more than Air NZ.

As stated in another thread in here, Air NZ are looking at the poorly designed footrest in prem economy and will hopefully fix this in the next few years.

Again do something about the 777 :)

It seems to be the week for announcing cabin enhancements.
United yesterday, Qantas today...

It is going to be interesting to see what NZ do to counter the QF A380 in general which will have Wi-Fi and powerpoints in every seat.

But the 747 Premium Economy (which is a direct competitor to NZ on the AKLLAX route) comes with * a wide centre console with a fixed cocktail table and in-arm meal table.
* Enhanced shin and knee clearance with unique net foot restThe wide centre console looks like a winner to me. Plus 2-4-2 configuration.

Of course NZ have the advantage in that they already have the product, but it is interesting QF have opted for 32 seats on the 747, vis-a-vis NZ's 39 (after recent additions); and have opted for all the same services as NZ offers...

All of the following are a winner for me, I would fly Qantas over Air NZ if the pricing was the same or even a few hundred $ more, for the following

Wider seats - At least 1 to 2 inches over Air NZ
More Recline - I think a bit more than Air NZ
Config - 2-4-2 - Better than the risk of being stuck in A on the upper deck on Air NZ
Wide Centre Arm Rest - This is the best feature, I really dislike the standard armrest on Air NZ Premium Economy.

Air NZ - You should be watching this closely, but will be interested to see what happens on Qantas's 787's and Air NZ 787's.

Also very interested in what Virgin Pacific come up with for their 777's

I do wonder if QF will be putting it on the two class 747 that they send over here. Also with some services, temporary (?), on the A330-200, they wil not be getting any of the new hard product as QF have not announced their intention in installing them on it.

Well they have said that all 747-400's are getting it

But not the A330's

Without wanting to sound like the National Anthem should be playing in the background when reading this post, I'll stick with Air NZ regardless of the Qantas PE product.

Reasons?

- They came out with it nice an early, and after some so-so feedback in the first few months, they improved the product drastically
- The pricing (for me - based in HK) is excellent when compared to Y offerings on the same or similar routes)
- I have flown PE a few times and loved it every time.
- Aussie accents are annoying :p
- An inch here, a few inches there, a better footrest - perhaps; but I would much rather support my national carrier than John Howards!

Remember - the Qantas product is still at least a year away, so Air NZ could keep improving on PE in the next 12 months.

Without wanting to sound like the National Anthem should be playing in the background when reading this post, I'll stick with Air NZ regardless of the Qantas PE product.

Reasons?

- They came out with it nice an early, and after some so-so feedback in the first few months, they improved the product drastically
- The pricing (for me - based in HK) is excellent when compared to Y offerings on the same or similar routes)
- I have flown PE a few times and loved it every time.
- Aussie accents are annoying :p
- An inch here, a few inches there, a better footrest - perhaps; but I would much rather support my national carrier than John Howards!

Remember - the Qantas product is still at least a year away, so Air NZ could keep improving on PE in the next 12 months.


Whats wrong with an Aussie accent? :) And little Johnnie is OK :rolleyes:

But I am still partial to NZ and *, and don't use QF :-)

Well, there's nothing like some competition to see product improvement.

I'm impressed with the Qantas PE (first-look via the Qantas forum). Look similar to some of the older-style business seats. Maybe Air NZ will change the configuration on the 777 to 2-3-2 and upstairs on the 747 to a 2-2.
I just flew on the 777 AKL-MEL in PE and the seats are narrower than on the 747. I'm not wide, and it was not all that impressive. The narrow armrests were also a problem. Leg room fine, foot-rest useless (as said before by others).
I've been very happy with Air NZ, and my success in upgrading to Business on almost all my flights to the US over the last 7 years.

Hopefully Air NZ will respond with a better PE.
For me, it could depend on price and upgrade probabilities (rare on Qantas).

First I need to say what a wonderful resource this forum is! I searched online for "real" peoples opinions on Air NZ's Premium economy - yours was, by far, the most informative. For that alone I thank you all.

Now, onto my experience....

Route / Plane LAX-AKL / 747 and AKL-LAX /747
Day/Night Both were night flights - departed on flight NZ1 LAX 9:30pm Sept 22nd(however we were delayed for a good hour + as the previous flight hadn't arrived - even the crew was waiting.)

Departing AKL Flight #2 Oct 14th at 10:45PM - on time.

Seat No. 29 A&C We personally LOVED this area! It seemed as if you were the only passengers. The FA on departure from LAX introduced herself and the service was excellent! On departure from AKL we didn't feel the same sort of friendliness, however the service was still acceptable.

Check in ok? There was no line at LAX - we checked in at the economy as we just didn't see the other desk and there was no line for either. The lady behind the counter was very pleasant and we had already booked our seats through our travel agent.

Leaving AKL for LAX - Very nice glass enclosed check-in area. The lady behind the counter was pleasant and most helpful in all areas. There is an escalator right there that takes you directly to security - NICE!

Seat comfort (width ok?) I think they missed a grand opportunity here - just a bit over an inch wider than regular economy. I would have gladly given up the side storage for wider seats (and wider arm rests). However, in all fairness, the side storage was convenient - my purse and one carry on fit in it, along with the pillows, blankets and our shoes! The actual comfort of the seats for 12 hours was not great. Pre Departure drinks were offered both ways - OJ, Water and Sparkling wine (it was decent!). We were also offered a local paper both flights. The legroom was FABULOUS!! My husband, who is 6ft 2 inches, was able to stretch out - no achy legs!

Ease of getting in and out - When the seats are in the upright position it's not a problem. When they are reclined it's very difficult if you are next to the window.

Food - WONDERFUL! ^ Menu follows -

On the flight from LAX to AKL -

Starter - Heirloom tomato salad with creamy burrata cheese (fresh milk mozzarella), olive oil fried croutons (soggy), wild rocket and aged balsamic.

A fresh assortment of breads and rolls were offered - very good sourdough roll!

Main Course - My husband had - Lamb Osso buco on saffron risotto milanese, fried olives stuffed with spicy lamb sausage and salsa verde. (My husband said it was all delish!)

I had - Wood roasted chicken breast with green garlic mashed potato (a tad runny), cavolo nero (braised tuscan greens), mushroom bolognaise, madeira and chicken jus. (I would have been happy eating this chicken had I been in a restaurant - tender and flavorful)

Dessert - Carrot cake cream cheese mousse with carrot leather and citrus creme fraiche.

Coffee tea, wine, etc were all offered in plentiful amounts.

Breakfast -

Fruit, cereal, bakery were offered - the croissants were a bit too crispy.

My husband had the creamy scrambled eggs with chives, chicken & sun dried tomato sausages (2 large links!), grilled bacon and mushrooms. My husband thought the food was decent, he loved the sausage.

I had orange brioche french toast with passionfruit cream and manuka honey and apple syrup. Sweet but good.

Cheese - a NZ cheese platter with biscuits and a very nice (large!) glass of port.

I won't type out the whole menu for the return trip, but it was just as good and just as filling! Neither my husband nor I have any complaints about the food. We were very full and satisfied.




FA attentiveness - As I said earlier, the FA from LAX to AKL went above and beyond to make sure we were comfortable. They checked in on us during the flight - I apparently was the only one in our section not sleeping on the way to AKL and the FA mouthed to me "Are you alright? Do you need anything?" I was fine and didn't need anything, but nice of her to ask! :)

AVOD - I watched a 3 hour movie, and played a few games. It certainly helped the time pass. The inflight program was interesting to watch. The noise cancellation head sets were comfortable and worked!

Would you do it again? Yes, in a heartbeat! On the flight back was the 1st time ever for me to nod off and catch a few Z's - AMAZING!! I will never fly 12 hours again in regular economy. The legroom alone was worth it! It was also a nice touch in the bathrooms to have hand lotion.

The final nice touch was when we picked up our baggage in LAX (we spent the night in LA), ours were the 1st 4 bags on the line! ;)

First I need to say what a wonderful resource this forum is! ...That's quite the first post! Glad to hear you enjoyed your journey, and welcome to FT.

Looks like we haven't had one of these for a while, so here's mine.

Route / Plane NZ99 - AKL-NRT - Boeing 777-200ER ZK-OKB

Day/Night flight Day - scheduled departure 0915 (actual 0945), scheduled arrival 1625 (actual 1630).

Seat No. (aisle / window / middle) 23K - bulkhead window.

Check in ok? I checked in for this flight in the WLG Koru Club the day before, in order to get out of my pre-assigned 24E. The best the KC could do was the Window, which was an improvement.

Seat comfort (width ok?) Width was somewhat restricted; armrests don't move and the seat is no wider than economy.

Legroom Legroom was adequate, enough that I could just step around the guy in the middle seat to get out, while he was asleep. The issue with the legroom is that if you have your left (or right, depending on the seat) leg angled slightly, the person in the seat next to you can't remove their PTV. This woke me up when the guy in the middle tried to remove his PTV.

Also, the armrest is way too narrow - middle guy was asleep with his elbow on the armrest and I couldn't remove my table.

Ease of getting in and out More or less OK - I think I annoyed my seatmates as I had to get up and down to the locker a few times as well as bathroom trips. The aisle seat is clear of the bulkhead so you only have to step around the middle seat.

Food Food was fine - although the FA attentiveness for, e.g. breadruns was a little on the low side. Can't remember all the options, but I had some sort of omelet wrapped in a pancake for breakfast; and NZ lamb for lunch/dinner.

What I do recall is that I was offered the cheese plate but not a dessert - didn't want one anyway but if you don't know to ask....

Drink Drink runs were OK. Plenty of 42 Below cocktails on offer, but you had to keep asking. Not particularly proactive in keeping the drinks topped up. Dessert wine available but not offered.

FA attentiveness Somewhat poor. People have often described SQ FAs as robotic and I really felt the NZ FAs on this flight were really robotic and just going through the motions. There was one FA who did stand out as a good performer, but as he was a Japanese speaker he was quite busy. The remainder of the crew performed alright when you poked them, but the lack of proactive drink top-ups or water bottle replacements was somewhat sucky.

AVOD AVOD was fine, with the usual problems with Tetris killing it.

Would you do it again? Tough question. This was part of a Circle Asia trip so the PE upgrade was only ~300, and the total fare was cheaper than the alternative of two point-to-points, so given the same scenario yes I would do it again. The much higher AP earning rate and the better chance to upgrade to business (didn't happen on this flight - totally sold out in C and U) is appealing as are the better food/drink service, but the lack of seat width and middle seat action equally make it unappealing.

I will continue to purchase PE on 747 services (both on my own money and the company's); but where practical I will continue to avoid the 777.

An accurate review I must say.

With Qantas fitting premium economy and their A380's NZ will update their seats with the 787 and 777's in 2010 from memory.

The QF seats are far superior to NZ, the best feature being the LARGE centre armrest, which I think would make all the difference. Of course this would mean 2-3-2 seating on the 777 :p

But again in two years I am sure we can expect NZ to jump ahead of QF and do something even better ^

Does Premium Economy entitle you to KC access?

The passenger would have no airline status.

Does Premium Economy entitle you to KC access?

The passenger would have no airline status.

No it doesn't sorry to tell you!

No. But it does give use of the premium check in lobby in AKL.

Thank you.

Luckily she easily amuses herself and will be happy in the terminal. YVR and AKL are both nice airports.

I have a very similar report to ajnz

Route/Plane: AKL-NRT-AKL - Boeing 777-200ER

Day/Night flight: Day flight on way over and night flight on return

Seat No. (aisle / window / middle):
23C - bulkhead isle.

Seat comfort :
I found the "premium" seats to be an abosolute joke! They are still 3-3-3 configuration on the 777, so can't be any wider than normal Y seats and there is the real economy feel for all involved. It really doesn't cut it for me that I can use the same toilet as the BPs folks.

The leg rest was of zero use to me (I'm 6'7'' but even if you're not that tall they are a joke). Haven't seen anyone using them apart from the small Japanese guys sitting in the middle 3 seats. Leg rests don't extend far enough, so I'm not sure whether this was a disign fault or meant that way. Did they use dwarfs to test those seats? :mad:

Another major problem I had was the lack of power for labtops. There was no power in my row and the power in the row behind me didn't work. Well, one outlet didn't work and the other one was used by someone else. That was a real problem because I had to work on some presentations on the flight to AKL and one of the reason to buy PE was to be able to get some work done on the flight. NZ doesn't say that every seat has power but they do state that "most" seats have power in PE. Well, if you want power make sure you sit in the second row (the one with less recline) and hope that the power outlet actually works :(

Food:
Food was OK on the way over but on the night flight it was annoying how long it took them to finish the meal service. Most people just wanted to get some sleep but the meal service kept dragging on and on. I decided to skip desert, cheese and coffee in the end to get some sleep. In general, the food is the same as BP but the printed menus do not look as nice. Unfortunately, I think that fool quality on NZ has really gone down hill compared to what they used to offer in business class. But that observation can be said for many other airlines, too.

AVOD:
I really like the NZ system. But the biggest complaint I have is that they had exactly the same movies in March and April which I found very very disappointing.They even had a new brochure printed that said "April" but all the movies in there were already shown on our flight over to NRT in March. :td:


Would you do it again?
Definitely not on a 777. It might be a different story on a 747 upstairs where the feel will be better but that still won't change the seat design, of course. Yes, additional legroom is always welcome, but I don't think they should charge extra for that. Rather give it to your loyal customers as an upgrade like UA does. They will appreciate it a lot more.

AVOD:
I really like the NZ system. But the biggest complaint I have is that they had exactly the same movies in March and April which I found very very disappointing.They even had a new brochure printed that said "April" but all the movies in there were already shown on our flight over to NRT in March. :td:

What date was your flight? Sometimes if it is the first day or so the a/c hasn't had a chance yet to get the IFE uploaded.


Would you do it again?
Definitely not on a 777. It might be a different story on a 747 upstairs where the feel will be better but that still won't change the seat design, of course. Yes, additional legroom is always welcome, but I don't think they should charge extra for that. Rather give it to your loyal customers as an upgrade like UA does. They will appreciate it a lot more.

Personally I hope they do not go that route. Can be sure the business class food & drink, and extra service will disappear if it is not being paid for. There is a reason premium cabins are much better (as a general rule) on non-US airlines.

What date was your flight? Sometimes if it is the first day or so the a/c hasn't had a chance yet to get the IFE uploaded.


Personally I hope they do not go that route. Can be sure the business class food & drink, and extra service will disappear if it is not being paid for. There is a reason premium cabins are much better (as a general rule) on non-US airlines.

My flight back was on the 8th or 9th and they had a printed "April" version which was the same that I had on the flight over at the end of March. I didn't check though whether the version in March might have actually been the April version already. But I would be surprised if they had loaded the April movies already in late March. Haven't seen this ever happen on QF. Could this maybe be why I got the same movies on both flights?

You're probably right and I agree that they have to charge extra for the food in PE. But surely that cannot be $300 per sector for some nicer plates and some better food, can it?

Hi,
Just had a preimum economy sector, AKL-HKG on tuesday night (22nd April). I have never experienced a premium economy product before so have no comparisons, apples for apples, however, I was mightily impressed.
The seat is great (744 aircraft) and despite having a very large man (seat extension required, large) next to me (me being medium build, 6'1"), I had plenty of room due to the generous width of seats.
Food was good and as ever the wine selection was spot on. I was travelling with my wife and 2year old (they going back to UK and me as far as HKG before coming back to NZ). we all managed some sleep although i always find it very difficult to sleep on a non lie-flat bed....
service and crew were a credit to NZ, although after booking through NZ holidays i was disappointed that despite being on seperate tickets We specifically asked to get seats together and upstairs. they didn't manage to do this with me upstairs and family downstairs and no sign of our membership status on the tickets. Luckily we managed to get three together (ish) downstairs.
The plane was packed and loads of babies too, the other half of the black caps were up front on their way to the uk (to get beat i hasten to add :D)
So overall was impressed and i think the extra over economy is well worth it.
just my two pence worth!
dj

You ended up in my favorite area! Did you like the private feeling of the main deck PE area? .... the UD has LOADS more people!;)

You ended up in my favorite area! Did you like the private feeling of the main deck PE area? .... the UD has LOADS more people!;)
Well, it was quite nice, right next to the crew rest seats. nice to look back in the masses in economy ;):D
There was a baby in business class that was crying a little (i say little not a brat) at first but fell asleep quite soon after takeoff. This got the attention of one very miserable lady passenger who complained! what are the staff to do! I noticed here as she had a pair of BA FIRST pajamas on......that would be a faix pas in my eyes and I restrained and wore a t-shirt with the first bottoms on instead.
Later in the flight I went to use the toilets in the front of the cabin (in business) to change and the 'lady' pushed past me to have a word with the FA complaining that I (and others) were using her toilet...Now I don't mind using any toilet on the plane but was using the nearest one after direction from the flight crew and considered myslef not to be in the wrong...again she wasn 't happy with the response she got!
Unfortunately I think she was a 'fellow' brit. Usually not very good at complaining unless you are upper(middle) class!
dj

I'm a Star Alliance Silver member. How many miles will I gain when flying AKL-SYD? The NZ site is rather user unfriendly, I only see accrual in Airpoints but not in miles. Also, is it worth it to fly in Y+? I haven't flown in a Y+ product before, it's always J or Y.

I'm a Star Alliance Silver member. How many miles will I gain when flying AKL-SYD? The NZ site is rather user unfriendly, I only see accrual in Airpoints but not in miles. Also, is it worth it to fly in Y+? I haven't flown in a Y+ product before, it's always J or Y.

Nick, you will get about 1345 miles, this was taken from Great Circle Mapper. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=akl-syd&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

I would not pay for Y+ on AKL-SYD, especially if it was 777 and not 747. I have travelled in all 6 classes of NZ, old Y, J and F, new Y, Y+ and BP. Y+ on the 777 was a big disappointment (AKL-YVR).

Nick, you will get about 1345 miles, this was taken from Great Circle Mapper. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=akl-syd&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

I would not pay for Y+ on AKL-SYD, especially if it was 777 and not 747. I have travelled in all 6 classes of NZ, old Y, J and F, new Y, Y+ and BP. Y+ on the 777 was a big disappointment (AKL-YVR).

Thanks. 1345 covers the 700+ miles which I am short of for re qualification.

After reading the reviews in this thread, I think I will give Y+ a miss. The product really looks inferior. Even BA's WTP & VS PE products which have been around for years are still miles ahead. Think I will just fly on the A320.

It's amazing to see how NZ is run with all the bad decisions being made (Let's not forget about NZ replacing capable AN managers that got snapped up by QF)

Nick, you will get about 1345 miles, this was taken from Great Circle Mapper. http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=akl-syd&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=.

Flown distance is about 1343 miles. How much is earned on a particular program depends on booking classes (eg the cheap economy fares in LGSKP earn nothing and other cheapish fares may earn less than 100% miles conversely the more expensive economy fares earn more than 100% miles in some programs), and FFP rules (eg some have status bonus, others not).

No airline's perfect, Air NZ included, but a modern fleet with one of the best premium seats and economy offerings in the world turning over hundreds of millions of dollars profit in a difficult environment - must be doing something right. Sure, bad decisions have been made, but I wouldn't count premium economy as one of them - even though the 747 has a better offering than the 777, the 777 is still constantly full and the majority of passengers appreciate the step-up from economy.

Spare us the Ansett rubbish, most of it is word of mouth and there is next to noone left in management from that era, 7 years ago.

Shows what I know.... So BA WTP and VS PE are options AKL-SYD eh?;)

Miles ahead? Doesn't WTP get normal Y service?

I've actually flown in NZ's Y+ multiple times (on the 747 of course - long haul) And I think it's damn good.... not sure what source was used to conclude it "looks inferior"... but hey.. everyone is entitled to their opinion....

Good advice here from KF about checking booking class etc... if it's a "status run" it'd be pointless on a non-earning fare!!!

Yep while the PE on the 777 is rubbish, it still fills up. For us on here we all know the PE product on the 744 is much better and I know many of us try to book the 744 over the 777 for that reason.

While the PE product on NZ is very good at the moment by the end of the year QF will have most of their fleet fitted with a far superior PE product. Also V Australia will be flying with a very good PE product.

I feel that NZ will have to upgrade the PE on the 777 before 2010/2011 when the 787's were/are meant to arrive.

As for the 744, not sure of the arrival dates of the 777-300ER's.

Whoops!

Yup... very much a "wait and see" (and hope??;)) regarding new a/c....

Still.. it's interesting that the QF product is seen as "far superior" right now.. has anyone actually FLOWN in it?? Don't get me wrong...I hope it's very, very good indeed... (especially as it is even more $$$ than NZ's - Ouch! On equivalent routes and by currently available fares which may change natch..))..

The more airlines introduce their own versions the happier I'll be ('specially if they are *A of course!:D)

Thanks. 1345 covers the 700+ miles which I am short of for re qualification.

After reading the reviews in this thread, I think I will give Y+ a miss. The product really looks inferior. Even BA's WTP & VS PE products which have been around for years are still miles ahead. Think I will just fly on the A320.

It's amazing to see how NZ is run with all the bad decisions being made (Let's not forget about NZ replacing capable AN managers that got snapped up by QF)

It's only the 777 Y+ *seat* that is poor, the other aspects of the service are significantly superior to BA and VS (e.g. business class meal and beverage service). And although the width may not be great, the pitch is a crucial inch or two more than VS or BA as well.

Still.. it's interesting that the QF product is seen as "far superior" right now.. has anyone actually FLOWN in it??

Check out the Qantas forum for some early reviews (sorry, don't know how to create links). Seems like the footrest is similar to that on NZ PE - not particularly helpful.

The footrest seems to be the Achilles heel of any Y type seating....

(Dreadful sorta pun eh? Sorry....:D)

Later in the flight I went to use the toilets in the front of the cabin (in business) to change and the 'lady' pushed past me to have a word with the FA complaining that I (and others) were using her toilet...Now I don't mind using any toilet on the plane but was using the nearest one after direction from the flight crew and considered myslef not to be in the wrong...again she wasn 't happy with the response she got!You are far more restrained in comment than I would have been.

You are far more restrained in comment than I would have been.
Well I am smug knowing that I paid a lot less than she did for using her toilet ;)
And probably getting better service from the crew by being polite and curteous (sp?) and not a DYKWIA...

It's only the 777 Y+ *seat* that is poor, the other aspects of the service are significantly superior to BA and VS (e.g. business class meal and beverage service). And although the width may not be great, the pitch is a crucial inch or two more than VS or BA as well.


Seats in PE for 777 carriers are a joke, this was my first experience with NZ LHR-LAX-LHR and I was truly disappointed. Do not pay for PE in 777, it is not worth the money!!! Also the service vs BA and VS is not the same, sub average, no real attention to detail, it is like flying Y with slightly better food, for an extra 400 gbp, i dont think so!:td::td:

Yep the 777 PE is a joke and always has been, even the PE on the 744's is now looking behind the times when compared to Virgin and Qantas.

Sometime in 2010 is the arrival of the 777-300ER which from previous talk will feature all new seats in all classes of service.

.....

Actually I prefer Premium Economy downstairs on the 747 because you get the duvet (because that mini-cabin is so cold).

But we are all going to have to accept that it is the 777 Premium Economy product which will survive, not the better 747 one.

The airline has decided that it will have wider Premium Economy than Economy seats on the 777-300ER. Unfortunately that is because they are going to downgrade Economy to 10 abreast, will keeping Premium Economy at 9 abreast.

It's largely V Australia's fault: when they plumped for 9 abreast PE on the 777 our goose was cooked.

Actually I prefer Premium Economy downstairs on the 747 because you get the duvet (because that mini-cabin is so cold).

But we are all going to have to accept that it is the 777 Premium Economy product which will survive, not the better 747 one.

The airline has decided that it will have wider Premium Economy than Economy seats on the 777-300ER. Unfortunately that is because they are going to downgrade Economy to 10 abreast, will keeping Premium Economy at 9 abreast.

It's largely V Australia's fault: when they plumped for 9 abreast PE on the 777 our goose was cooked.
How do you know the NZ configuration on the 777-300ER?
Why would V Australia influence NZ when QF PE is 8 across on the wider 747? NZ charges a premium on their product, which hard wise is inferior to the QF seat, I have not travelled PE on NZ since they introduced the catering change. QF PE was cheaper for a holiday that I had planned by a long margin $750 pp, I also am scheduled to fly the A380. NZ has to improve their PE hard product but instead chose to add more of the inferior seats on the 777:td:

DCF is continually choosing to misinterpret the interview with Nathan Agnew (link) (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24401748-23349,00.html), where, amongst other interesting and innovative musings, quite clearly states that premium economy will remain as a seperate class, even if a 10-abreast section is introduced for the ultra-cheap fares.

Agnew also notes that 30 per cent of airlines taking the Boeing 777-300ER are now opting for a 3-4-3, 10-across configuration pioneered by Emirates.

For Air New Zealand, a 10-across configuration may spearhead a new economy lite option, where price is more important than any other consideration.

Agnew sees considerable fragmentation of the standard economy cabin with quite likely three distinct products: premium, standard and lite.