Air New Zealand Air Points - New Virgin LHR-HKG product to outclass NZ

Virgin Atlantic has reportedly just unveiled its new long-haul Premium Economy product, and I have a nasty feeling that it will be the final nail in Air NZ's coffin on the LHR-HKG route.

As we know, the route stands or falls on premium class profits. Air NZ is at a disadvantage from the outset in that the 747-400 is much less efficient than Virgin's A340, not to mention that the VS flight continues to Sydney, a richer and bigger market than Auckland. And as if that wasn't bad enough, Virgin has the same Business class seats but with proper amenity kits, a bar etc etc.

Now we know that Virgin will outclass Air NZ in Premium Economy too, even though the fares are almost identical. Whereas Air NZ has narrow 5 abreast seating upstairs, and Economy Class food with premium wines, Virgin has unveiled a wide seat almost identical in dimensions to the 4 abreast Business Class seat Air NZ used to operate upstairs, but with food to be served course by course on real crockery.

In other words, Premium Economy on Air NZ is a slightly enhanced economy class, while on Virgin it will correspond to the old NZ Business Class offering, except with better IFE.

I must confess that I'm quite angry about the Premium Economy product Air NZ has opted for. Talk of a 25% premium over economy proved to be a bare-faced lie: it is invariably double the discount economy fare, just 25% above the highest full economy rates. And opting for narrow seats would be OK if the premium was only 25%, but at the 50% premium the seats really should be as wide as old Business Class, just with less legroom. It should be 4 abreast upstairs on the 747, and 7 abreast on the 777, not 9 abreast.

Personally, I book Premium Economy once per year to the USA, but only in order to use my 2 Gold Elite confirmed upgrades.

I wouldn't dream of buying it if I thought I might actually have to fly in Premium Economy: I'd pay the extra $2000 for a Business Class Star Circle Pacific fare, which ludicrously costs $2500 LESS for SYD-AKL-SFO (all on NZ) SFO-HKG (UA) HKG-AKL-SYD (on NZ again) than if I just bought an Air NZ return SYD-AKL-SFO-AKL-SYD, even though I fly just as much on Air NZ, PLUS a Trans-Pacific business class sector on another airline too.

Honestly, fares as follows:
NZ SYD-SFO Discount Economy return $1600
NZ SYD-SFO Premium Economy return $4100
NZ SYD-SFO Business Premier return $8700
Star Circle Pacific Business Class $6220

Air NZ needs to review its Premium Economy product and its long-haul fares.

NZ SYD-SFO Premium Economy fares are generally $3200
Even so as you said still double the discount economy fare.

Personally I have booked/paid for Prem Economy from Mel-Lax early next year.

It's a fair bit better than economy and it cost me $6200
Economy would have cost $3500
Business class would cost $22000

So Business is clearly out of the question, yet I can justify PE.

There is no competition for Prem Economy on the Australia - USA route, Uniteds Economy Plus is average and would not fly it again

Back to your topic though.

If Virgin puts those seats and service on the same flights and for a similar price, there is no choice, you would choose to fly Virgin!

Can't wait to Virgin/Pacific/ whatever name they choose start Australia - USA flights.

About that time is when Qantas/UA/Air NZ will need to get their act together

From what I've seen of Virgin's new (and old) premium economy seat, NZ have little to fear in this department. NZ may be forced to compete on price which might just be a good thing.

Well I wonder what they expected ?

Everyone I have talked to who's had the misfortune of flying Pacific Premium say that seat width was just too tight. Few complaints about anything else but many complaints about width.

You'll certainly get width with Virgin but not the leg room and probably not a leg rest. The petite Japanese lady sat opposite to me last time I did Virgin prem had no problem sitting cross legged in her seat. I know what I would prefer but I could understand a big (tall+wide and not necessarily overweight person) might be a bit aggrieved with the NZ product.

You'll certainly get width with Virgin but not the leg room and probably not a leg rest.
But the legrest is the most useless part of the premium economy seat - I have yet to see someone that can actually use it.

Width is far more important - I'm not a big person by NZ standards, but NZers (and Australians) are big people, and if I'm feeling cramped in the seat, I hate to think what 6+ foot people think!

Would this be the same none mechanical leg rest that you get on some of the front of cabin economy seats on NZ's 767s (looks promising but ultimately gets in the way)?

I'd rather have 38 inches legroom plus 2 extra inches width than 40 inches legroom without the extra width.

Did Air NZ go for wider width on the PE seats downstaris on the 744 ?

Would this be the same none mechanical leg rest that you get on some of the front of cabin economy seats on NZ's 767s (looks promising but ultimately gets in the way)?No.. it's similar in design to the leg-rests on the old biz seats, but with far less length in it, so unless you like having your knees bent, there's no way to use the thing..

Agree 100% wth ajnz, the leg rests are useless. No support for the upper leg and can only be used with your knees up or bent.
I'm just over 6ft, and fairly slim (I think so, but middle age is starting to show :) ). In PE, the exta legroom is great, but the width is tight, especially when you move around while sleeping and the person next to you is a little wider.
Will check out reviews of the new PE offering from Virgin Atlantic. If it looks ok, maybe I'll try it on my next trip to Europe.

Firstly a question - the Air NZ site says that the 747 PE seats have extra width, is this true? We have no problem with width on the Exit Row seats which some people have said are a little tight, so I'm assuming that the PE seats should be ok.

Re value for money - To fly to NZ return from HKG is usually somewhere in the vicinity of HK$6k to HK$8k (including taxes). Sure there are 3200 fares advertised, but they are usually low season and don't include the HK$1500 tax you get slapped with.

PE fares ex-HKG are HK$10500 or HK$11,500 (incl airport taxes), so only an extra thousand or so each way, depending on time of year. The big advantage however is that you can book PE seats up to a year in advance at the fixed fare - something you can't do in economy unless you are paying full Y fare (which from HK I believe isn't much less than a PE fare - correct me if wrong). The ability to book this far in advance is excellent for us, and for the relatively small extra difference in price from full Y to PE, we're happy with the convenience (and have already booked PE fares for mid 2007).

Also, given the large HKG population, getting out of HKG on Cathay at peak times is rather difficult. The cheapest fare HKG-AKL for Xmas is now HKG$10000 (incl tax), and still about three months out. You'd be mad not to just fork out the extra HK$500 and take a PE seat.

That said, if Virgin Atlantic offered good PE deals to Akl (via Syd, with presumably a VBlue connection), I'd certainly give it a crack.