Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - Business Class to Japan: KL vs AF

I recently made an award flight in Business Class from AMS to Tokyo, and back from Osaka via CDG to AMS.

The first flight was a direct one with KL, and went as I suspected: nice.

The second flight was with AF (both segments), and was not as good as the KL flight. CGD is just a pain in the a** when you have to change flights: first they send you to the public area, and then you have to queue for security checks for a long time again (This is exactly why I didn't accept the flight with only 1 hour connection time at CDG that Flying Blue suggested). Bonus in AMS: Polderbaan. Nothing new, so far.

My questions are about Osaka and Air France:

1) Is is the combination Osaka and AF that they either give you a voucher for the Lounge or a 3000 YEN voucher for tax free shopping? Does AF do that at more airports? Would you get the same choice with KL? We didn't have much time left, so we were quite happy with the tax free shopping vouchers. :)

2) How come that the inflight entertainment of AF's triple 7 is so far behind KL's? :mad: You got the choice of 8 movies, KL gives you dozens. KL has a music juke box, AF only some audio channels. Quite a disappointment on an 12 hours flight. For future long distance flights, I'll try to avoid AF for this reason. How is the inflight entertainment on AF's other long distance routes?

How is the inflight entertainment on AF's other long distance routes?

Tha's the same : 6 movies and some audio channels.
An improvement from november with 12 movies and more languages available :D

2) How come that the inflight entertainment of AF's triple 7 is so far behind KL's? :mad: You got the choice of 8 movies, KL gives you dozens. KL has a music juke box, AF only some audio channels. Quite a disappointment on an 12 hours flight. For future long distance flights, I'll try to avoid AF for this reason. How is the inflight entertainment on AF's other long distance routes?

I presume you were on one of KLM's B772s AMS-NRT. Those aircraft, as well as the A332s do indeed offer a magnificent IFE system. However, KLM is also running the B744/B74E between AMS and NRT a couple of days of the week and the IFE on those aircraft is not so magnificent, although that is bound to change as the 747 fleet gets its retrofit including the B772/A332 entertainment system.

If I am correct, AF deploys the 77W (to Tokyo) with the NTC. From what I read on this board that beats KL WBC.
The OTC on the other hand, I believe is not that great.

2) How come that the inflight entertainment of AF's triple 7 is so far behind KL's? :mad: You got the choice of 8 movies, KL gives you dozens. KL has a music juke box, AF only some audio channels. Quite a disappointment on an 12 hours flight. For future long distance flights, I'll try to avoid AF for this reason. How is the inflight entertainment on AF's other long distance routes?

FYI, AF announced on sept 22nd at the "Top Resa" Deauville exhibition 100% more of inflight VOD and this from 1st of november 2006.

For any destination long-haul flight, AF will propose 12 movies on demand instead of 6.
AF will also increase from 4 to 9 the number of languages for the movie.
By default languages offered will be French, English and Spanish. Then depending of the movie Italian, German, Brasilian/Portuguese, Chinese, Corean and japanese.

As you can see Arab doesn't seem an interesting language for AF... I know business is more important than diplomatic behavior, but I still hope an effort will be done on this point.

Also AF says that they are the first european company offering 22 000 video screens in all classes/cabins. I don't know if somebody can confirm this statement.

Please find here the URL (only in french for now) where you can read this announcement (Pages 18 & 19 in the PDF file).
http://www.airfrance.com/double6/file/Y1/file_Y1.nsf/(Lookup)/fr-PRODUtopresa06/$file/topresa06.pdf

Jer (From BCN)

For any destination long-haul flight, AF will propose 12 movies on demand instead of 6.

WOW, 12 movies! :rolleyes:

That's still a fraction of KLM - why don't they copy the much better inflight entertainment of KLM?

WOW, 12 movies! :rolleyes:

That's still a fraction of KLM - why don't they copy the much better inflight entertainment of KLM?

KL website only shows a selection of 2 movies for economy cabin and a selection of 7 movies for business. I guess there are more but not published online.

I see irony in your post ... but anyway, my question is : Does KL offer a 12-movies-selection in its coach class as will do AF by nov. 1st?
What about the languages availability in KL long haul ?

Jer

KL website only shows a selection of 2 movies for economy cabin and a selection of 7 movies for business. I guess there are more but not published online.

I see irony in your post ... but anyway, my question is : Does KL offer a 12-movies-selection in its coach class as will do AF by nov. 1st?
What about the languages availability in KL long haul ?

Jer

The KLM website shows the inflight entertainment for the B747/MD11/B767 which still feature the old entertainment system. The new system is installed only on the B777/A332 and already one upgraded B747. The new system features a much wider variety of options.

According to the schedule, KLM has a 777 AMS-NRT v.v. every day, and a 747-400F AMS-KIX v.v.

The 777 to/from NRT, however, is often replaced with a 747, which means the entertainment system sucks as much as the one on AF. The KIX flight always has the 747 with the outdated system.

When flying out of KIX on KLM, all I ever got was a voucher for the lounge, not one for shopping.

As to the experience on both airlines in business class, I would always prefer the food and attitude of the AF crew over the .....y KL crew.

Well, I've just compared AF vs KLM on another route this weekend, and my impression is:

1. AF staff just as friendly as KLM - but try and speak some French, and if you don't/can't then try and use the words 'please' and 'thank you' in your sentences. The bloke next to me saying 'gimme a cognac' 'take this away', etc received a level of service compatible with his behaviour.

2. Fewer movies on AF (didn't matter to me - I just read and listen to my iPod) but the moving map thingie wasn't working at all. Concerned that this is somehow initimately tied into the navigation system resulted in feeling slightly worried the whole flight...

3. Fantastic food, but appears less than KLM when you first glance at the menu, but in summary: 2 starters, 3 mains, cheese included as part of mains, excellent array of various sorbets, fruit, cakes, pastries etc afterwards. Although choice seemed limited, every single thing was absolutely delicious - as a 'foodie' I was seriously impressed.

4. Modest wine, the "Oenology' part of my user name indicates I pay great attention to this bit! One champagne, one white, two reds. All medium-good, but only a half glass each course, served in tumblers with a children's logo on the side, which was a bit weird.

5. Buffet for between meals snacking - nice idea and better selection than KLMs dire selection.

6. NTC seats - at last, no inclusive recline from the person in front (kind of Virgin RJ2000 I think they're called), with really handy pockets and compartments, but recline and bed function not as 'good' as NW or KLM variety - it wouldn't go completely (angled) flat and was lumpier despite fiddling with the massage function.

7. An arrivals lounge in CDG which had nice snacks, excellent multi-headed showers with Occitane lotions and potions, but I needed stress counselling and a change of clothes after fighting my way round the different terminals and actually clearing customs, security etc several times to find it (in the corner of 2C, airside, at far side of check in area before you get to the restaurants).

8. CDG Departure lounge nice (now combined F/C product) with better seating than AMS, better snacks and proper champagne, but dearth of English magazines, Newspapers (so no difference there!).

So in summary: several differences, nice staff, some nice touches and some irritating ones, but think very hard about CDG before you choose this route (didn't even mention bus out to aircraft (bus? is this 2006 or what?) with no aircon, crammed full (no Classe Affaires bus), people almost fainting before eventual arrival at the 'plane).

Techno

According to the schedule, KLM has a 777 AMS-NRT v.v. every day, and a 747-400F AMS-KIX v.v.

The 777 to/from NRT, however, is often replaced with a 747, which means the entertainment system sucks as much as the one on AF. The KIX flight always has the 747 with the outdated system.

When flying out of KIX on KLM, all I ever got was a voucher for the lounge, not one for shopping.

As to the experience on both airlines in business class, I would always prefer the food and attitude of the AF crew over the .....y KL crew.

The AMS-NRT flights are not uniquely scheduled with B777s. As a matter of fact, those flights operate with a mixture of B772s (thrice weekly) and B74Es (four times weekly) and the only change that ever happens is the upgrade of a combi to a full pax version. KLM's daily AMS-KIX rotation operates with B772s all the time, at it's been quite a while since the last aircraft change.

7. An arrivals lounge in CDG which had nice snacks, excellent multi-headed showers with Occitane lotions and potions, but I needed stress counselling and a change of clothes after fighting my way round the different terminals and actually clearing customs, security etc several times to find it (in the corner of 2C, airside, at far side of check in area before you get to the restaurants).


I guess you mean landside.

I guess you mean landside.

I did indeed - sorry. It does look airside on some of their maps, which is why I set off looking for it, hoping not to have to go through all the customs and security again, but you are correct, it is actually situated landside.

Tha's the same : 6 movies and some audio channels.
An improvement from november with 12 movies and more languages available :D

Not to mention that 2 movies will be French and have limited appeal to non-French flyers.

Not to mention that 2 movies will be French and have limited appeal to non-French flyers.

Why ?

Why ?

Not everybody speaks and/or understands French.

Okay, Belgium is a different story ;)

Not everybody speaks and/or understands French.



But they're subtitled anyway in English...still a nice option to have IMO since most airlines show the same standard fare these days....

Not everybody speaks and/or understands French.

Okay, Belgium is a different story ;)

Are u talking about people that cannot understand French and cannot read English ? Or are u talking about the quality of French movies ? :confused:

Belgium is a different story... not better I can tell you :td:

I would not say that it is the quality, but rather their appropriateness for in-flight entertainment. I like french movies and watch them fairly often to refresh my language skills, but as they tend to be slow-paced subtle-themed dramas, I don't find myself in the mood for them while I'm flying. In-flight I'd rather watch faster-paced American actions or comedies, and save the French films for a Saturday evening stay-at-home date. Based on conversations with neighboring flyers, I don't think I'm alone in this preference. Anyone agree/disagree?

I would not say that it is the quality, but rather their appropriateness for in-flight entertainment. I like french movies and watch them fairly often to refresh my language skills, but as they tend to be slow-paced subtle-themed dramas, I don't find myself in the mood for them while I'm flying. In-flight I'd rather watch faster-paced American actions or comedies, and save the French films for a Saturday evening stay-at-home date. Based on conversations with neighboring flyers, I don't think I'm alone in this preference. Anyone agree/disagree?

I totally disagree :p

There is a lot of French comedies not only dramas :p

And I think that each airlines should promote movies of his country :D

But you know... about tastes and colo(u)rs :cool:

There is a lot of French comedies not only dramas :p
Don't we all love Louis de Funès (http://www.louisdefunes.com) :D

Don't we all love Louis de Funès (http://www.louisdefunes.com) :D

LOL ^

I was most disappointed with the AF NEV product in J (see post on AF site).
The seat is crap, worse than the SSS on KLM or NW.
Indeed the back is fixed, which is a plus, but the sleeping comfort is non existant!
And indeed, the audio/video system is really bad.
I prefer the KLM 747 (old) video system, decent movies, and actually very good audio programmes with noise reduction headsets.
Food is always good on AF but that was also the case before NEV.