Other Middle East and Africa Frequent Flyer Programs - Islamic Call to Prayer on Turkish Airlines

I will be flying to Turkey in a few weeks on Turkish Airlines and have a serious question about flying and the Islamic faith. I wonder how the largely Islamic passengers will pray during the long 10 hour flight to Istanbul. Will it be a silent personal prayer or will they pray at designated times in a formal exercise?

This is a serious question.

I will be flying to Turkey in a few weeks on Turkish Airlines and have a serious question about flying and the Islamic faith. I wonder how the largely Islamic passengers will pray during the long 10 hour flight to Istanbul. Will it be a silent personal prayer or will they pray at designated times in a formal exercise?

This is a serious question.

Sounds like something for the "Religious Traveler" forum. ;)

The serious answer: most don't pray in any obvious ways during the flight; and for those individuals that may, they do so in the same way as most all praying passengers on the planet. ;)

(Hajj flights can be quite a different story.)

An official call to prayer on Turkish Airlines via the PA system? Not routine -- and not on your route. ;) That is, such a thing is highly unlikely to happen on your flight.

What's the concern? That a formal, organized in-flight prayer -- never seen it on my Turkish Airlines flights -- will lead to the plane going up and down as people move about the cabin or in their seat? :D No more than happens during meal service.

As this question relates to Turkish Airlines I am going to move it to the appropriate airline forum.
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

It's silent. Some airlines have a prayer room on board (SV/MH I think) not sure if TK does. If they do people will likely go there to pray. If they don't we can just pray in our seat.

It's silent. Some airlines have a prayer room on board (SV/MH I think) not sure if TK does. If they do people will likely go there to pray. If they don't we can just pray in our seat.

SV is not Russia's Aeroflot, I guess. :D Given more muslims in Russia than Saudi Arabia, it's easy to read the SV as SU and SU as SV. :eek:

I have never flown on a carrier from a mostly Islamic country. I was under the impression that they displayed the compass heading to Mecca (sorry, don't recall what that's called or if that's even correct) on the overhead displays as well as unintrusively announced or showed prayer times.

If they do do this indeed, how do they deal with the time zone changes? Do they take the beginning or ending time zone, or do whatever they're over? It sounds like it could be very tricky. And if they don't do this at all, I wonder as to what sort of in-flight prayer info/announcements Islamic carriers do provide.

I would also assume that, as one of the previous posters said, other than during times like the Hajj most Muslims are more concerned with sleeping than observing every call to prayer while aboard a fast-moving vessel crossing timezones in a haphazard fashion. :)

But, I am curious how these carriers provide for what must be a large proportion of their customer base. And do they only serve halal food? I would assume so, even though I know a large number of them do serve alcohol even though devout Muslims would not be ordering it. (Kind of like how domestic Indian flights aren't allowed to serve alcohol... but they can do whatever they want to do on international flights.)

Some years ago, I was on a BA flight that had originated in a mostly Muslim country and I recall being asked by my seatmate (in a bulkhead row, by the exit door, so loads of floor space) if I minded that he got out his prayer mat, spreading it in front of our two seats.

Needless to say, he was not the only pax on board who did this, but certainly it was not part of an organized effort or announcements over the PA system.

I have never flown on a carrier from a mostly Islamic country. I was under the impression that they displayed the compass heading to Mecca (sorry, don't recall what that's called or if that's even correct) on the overhead displays as well as unintrusively announced or showed prayer times.

A good number of carriers from muslim-majority countries don't display/announce anything special at all.

If they do do this indeed, how do they deal with the time zone changes? Do they take the beginning or ending time zone, or do whatever they're over? It sounds like it could be very tricky. And if they don't do this at all, I wonder as to what sort of in-flight prayer info/announcements Islamic carriers do provide.

I would also assume that, as one of the previous posters said, other than during times like the Hajj most Muslims are more concerned with sleeping than observing every call to prayer while aboard a fast-moving vessel crossing timezones in a haphazard fashion. :)

But, I am curious how these carriers provide for what must be a large proportion of their customer base. And do they only serve halal food? I would assume so, even though I know a large number of them do serve alcohol even though devout Muslims would not be ordering it. (Kind of like how domestic Indian flights aren't allowed to serve alcohol... but they can do whatever they want to do on international flights.)

The food is usually halal, although there are some exceptions.

Observation of prayer times by individual muslim passengers is all over the board when it comes to traveling, especially travel over time zones. How airlines deal with it -- or don't -- is also all over the board, but most basically skip the matter. Also, Ramadan doesn't mean passengers will starve in-flight. :D (I say that because if observation of prayer times was standardized in-flight, there'd be some food issues related to standardization of times too.)

Given this is Turkish Airlines, religion really does not come into play any more than it does for Lufthansa.

Could this explain why the A380 is disproprtionately popular with airlines from Muslim countries?

They plan to replace Airbus's proposed bar area in the aircraft with a Mosque. LOL

Could this explain why the A380 is disproprtionately popular with airlines from Muslim countries?

They plan to replace Airbus's proposed bar area in the aircraft with a Mosque. LOL

:D .... I think the bar and/or an entertainment area for kids to play video games would sell better than a prayer room. While they are at it, perhaps they can put a nursery there for babies as well. :D

Shouldn't Turkish Airlines be in the Other European airlines forum? I usually lump it there because of IST vs. SAW.

A good number of carriers from muslim-majority countries don't display/announce anything special at all.



The food is usually halal, although there are some exceptions.

Observation of prayer times by individual muslim passengers is all over the board when it comes to traveling, especially travel over time zones. How airlines deal with it -- or don't -- is also all over the board, but most basically skip the matter. Also, Ramadan doesn't mean passengers will starve in-flight. :D (I say that because if observation of prayer times was standardized in-flight, there'd be some food issues related to standardization of times too.)

Given this is Turkish Airlines, religion really does not come into play any more than it does for Lufthansa.

Usually on Muslim airlines the food will be halaal (never seen anything else). However, you won't really note anyway.

I once flew during Ramadan from MUC to DXB. Whilst it was broad daylight on the plane they announced that sun had set on the ground below us so that Muslim passengers could break the fast. EK had two servings of dinner on that flight.

THY is a European airline and should be as usual in the other European Airlines section. In any case the OP has little clue of Turkey and/or THY, Turkey is a secular country, the average Turk would rather VOMIT than hear a call to prayer on a plane, that is a Saudia type thing. Having logged over 100 flights with TK, I cannot recall seeing more than a half a dozen people visibly praying on a TK flight. The food is not Helal, but they do not serve pork products.

Could this explain why the A380 is disproprtionately popular with airlines from Muslim countries?

They plan to replace Airbus's proposed bar area in the aircraft with a Mosque. LOL


I've seen one of a Saoudi Arabian King's private 747 at the DKR airport few years ago and that's really a special 747 with a mosque inside (that's making a kind of great "dome" of the middle top of the 747).

I will be flying to Turkey in a few weeks on Turkish Airlines and have a serious question about flying and the Islamic faith. I wonder how the largely Islamic passengers will pray during the long 10 hour flight to Istanbul. Will it be a silent personal prayer or will they pray at designated times in a formal exercise?

This is a serious question.

Generally its pretty quiet. I dont think there would be any formal call on PA,
but if there is anything, they may have a little compass on the display
pointing towards Mecca.

No, they have no such compass on board, Turks, especially those that fly THY (as opposed to charters) are NOT a religious lot. Amazing the amount of conjecture some people are coming up with here. GU has it pegged, except for the fact that the primary language used is Turkish and that if things go wrong their CS is not that hot, flying TK is just like flying LH, OS, (shudder ) AF, or any other European carrier. One should also keep in mind that TK is now perhaps the fifth or sixth largest carrier in Europe and is larger for example than LOT and Spanair COMBINED (and will be even 30% larger in two years time) I am not a big fan of TK, but its faults do not lie in the fact that the main religion in Turkey is Islam, considering the fact that today was the first day of Ramadan and that every restaurant I passed today, during the day, was doing business as usual, this should tell you how seriously many Turks take the whole thing (anecdotally, for the first day few days of Ramadan a lot of bars do close down, business is bad, most are open by the end of the first week at which point business is down 30%, by the end of Ramadan, business is usually UP by 5-10% by the very end).

Both QR and EK out of Beirut have a little prayer at the start of every flight (be it during Ramadan or any other time of the year). I have also flown both of those airlines during Ramadan. Muslims are excused from fasting during travel; however, some continue to fast. I am not sure how they cope with those who are eating around them. I have noticed; however, that airlines would announce the end of fasting (Iftar) as it would occur at the point origin so folks who are fasting could eat. So if a flight left Beirut at 4:00 p.m. and iftar was at 6:00 p.m., there would be an announcement 2 hours later on the flight saying that it is time for Iftar. Hope that makes sense (and answers that question with regard to time zones).

Both QR and EK out of Beirut have a little prayer at the start of every flight (be it during Ramadan or any other time of the year). I have also flown both of those airlines during Ramadan. Muslims are excused from fasting during travel; however, some continue to fast. I am not sure how they cope with those who are eating around them. I have noticed; however, that airlines would announce the end of fasting (Iftar) as it would occur at the point origin so folks who are fasting could eat. So if a flight left Beirut at 4:00 p.m. and iftar was at 6:00 p.m., there would be an announcement 2 hours later on the flight saying that it is time for Iftar. Hope that makes sense (and answers that question with regard to time zones).

I think you can fast on the travel day so long as your flight takes off after Asr (late afternoon) prayer.

Cheers

"I'm not sure how they cope with people eating around them?" I find that statement odd. I know that in many ME places there is an incredibly strict ban on food being served, fines for eating, drinking or smoking in public, however in a place like Turkey all restaurants remain open and only in the most extremely conservative areas will they even bother to put curtains up, no one complains and everyone deals with it. Remember though we are just coming out of a cycle of EXTEREMELY short Ramadan days, let's see how people react when its in the middle of summer.

I have flown nearly 100 sectors with Gulf Air (and Saudi Arabian a few times) and never other than the 'Kibla' symbol on the IFE system and a short thank you to God pre and post flight on GF and a longer prayer pre flight on Saudi Arabian.

Never seen a person down praying, ever over past 5 years with GF. With Turkey being secular I would expect this not to be an issue. I'm not muslim but have to say its sort of nice aknowledging God and asking we get to our destinantion in one piece! ;)
Enjoy CJ :cool:

Great question by the OP

I have never flown on a carrier from a mostly Islamic country. I was under the impression that they displayed the compass heading to Mecca (sorry, don't recall what that's called or if that's even correct) on the overhead displays as well as unintrusively announced or showed prayer times...even though I know a large number of them do serve alcohol even though devout Muslims would not be ordering it. (Kind of like how domestic Indian flights aren't allowed to serve alcohol... but they can do whatever they want to do on international flights.)

When I flew BD between BOM and LHR, the kiblah/qiblah (i.e., the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca towards which Muslims face when praying) was displayed along with the airshow/flight map in the video system. It's great for us Muslims and very considerate of a British carrier in light of the fact that India has the second largest Muslim population in the world (after Indonesia) and that the UK's Muslim population is substantial as well. ^

I don't know whether anything goes on international flights originating from India. On an international AI flight, alcohol service was pulled temporarily as the aircraft flew over Gujurat. Gandhi hails from this state, which is officially dry. Some carriers from predominantly Muslim countries do serve alcohol, but these cater to the non-Muslim passengers (it wouldn't be right for us to impose our values and practices) and to some of our Muslim brothers and sisters who choose not to observe some of these values and practices (e.g., some of my friends drink; some even eat pork).

Kinda OT - a question for fellow Muslim FTers - when you travel during Ramadan, do you observe the fast? I think that under certain conditions, travellers are exempt from the fast, but I recall flying SA from DKR to JNB during Ramadan last year, and there were several Muslim passengers who kept explaining to the flight attendant not to serve them food or drink because they were fasting. After seeing what the other passengers ate, I can assure you that nothing much was missed anyway. ;)

"Remember though we are just coming out of a cycle of EXTEREMELY short Ramadan days, let's see how people react when its in the middle of summer.

If you knew anything about why people observe Ramadan, you would know that it matters not whether it's mid December or mid June, Death Valley or Scotland...

I have been blessed to be able to offer fasts in the U.K. during December, where sehri is around 7:45 a.m. and iftar is 4:15 p.m., but also during June (in my early teens) when sehri was at 2:00 a.m. and iftar was after 9:45 p.m. Even in June, I saw no one complain if others continued to eat and drink.

Kinda OT - a question for fellow Muslim FTers - when you travel during Ramadan, do you observe the fast? I think that under certain conditions, travellers are exempt from the fast, but I recall flying SA from DKR to JNB during Ramadan last year, and there were several Muslim passengers who kept explaining to the flight attendant not to serve them food or drink because they were fasting. After seeing what the other passengers ate, I can assure you that nothing much was missed anyway. ;)


The great thing about Islam is that one can interpret the Quran and Hadith in a very personal way - free from the edicts of the clergy. My personal interpretation of Islamic teaching on fasting is that one is totally exempt from doing so when traveling. It is in my opinion a mercy from God to exempt the traveler. Having said that, I offer the fast even when traveling.

My wife and I differ on how to offer a fast. I go with timings at my point of origin, my wife goes with the actual calculated time at her current spatial position. So, if she is traveling from DFW to LGW during iftar time, she will break her fast at the point she feels the sun has set during her journey.

For me, if iftar occurs during a flight, I always let the FA know when I board to bring my meal 5 minutes before the prescribed time. I also tell him/her that if they forget, I will be happy to pick up my tray from the galley and serve myself. So far this month, I have been served my meal dead on time every time by UA FA's in the USA.

Kinda OT - a question for fellow Muslim FTers - when you travel during Ramadan, do you observe the fast? I think that under certain conditions, travellers are exempt from the fast, but I recall flying SA from DKR to JNB during Ramadan last year, and there were several Muslim passengers who kept explaining to the flight attendant not to serve them food or drink because they were fasting. After seeing what the other passengers ate, I can assure you that nothing much was missed anyway. ;)

LOL :D

As far as I know, you can fast if

i) you leave a place after Asr Salaat on a certain day
or
ii) you are in a place for 10 days or more
or
ii) you arrive back home before Zuhr prayers.

If you knew anything about why people observe Ramadan, you would know that it matters not whether it's mid December or mid June, Death Valley or Scotland...

I have been blessed to be able to offer fasts in the U.K. during December, where sehri is around 7:45 a.m. and iftar is 4:15 p.m., but also during June (in my early teens) when sehri was at 2:00 a.m. and iftar was after 9:45 p.m. Even in June, I saw no one complain if others continued to eat and drink.

Ohhh I miss those December UK fasts. I used to finish clas and it was already time. Now time is like 720pm, still not too bad.

This is not a religious philosophy board, I know why some Muslim people fast for Ramadan, I know why many pretend to fast, and I know why many start doing it and give up after a few days, and most importantly I know why many think its unnecessary but due to the "pressure" around them pretend to go along. I also know from first hand experience than when the days are long everything goes to hell. Traffic accidents increase, efficiency goes out the window and every bit of laziness in a country is blamed on it. Oh by the way, I have seen people arrested and caned for eating or drinking in public, perhaps if you actually lived in some of the places that it is "from" rather than preaching from the west, you'd have a different perspective.

Could have placed this thread in Religious Travel forum here on FT. :)

I was on an LH flight (in First Class) from FRA to EWR during Ramadan. It was daylight throughout the flight. I was shocked and impressed how the passenger next to me fasted the entire duration--not even water on a 7 hour transatlantic flight.

Even after we landed, he had another 6 hours to go before darkness.

This is not a religious philosophy board, I know why some Muslim people fast for Ramadan, I know why many pretend to fast, and I know why many start doing it and give up after a few days, and most importantly I know why many think its unnecessary but due to the "pressure" around them pretend to go along. I also know from first hand experience than when the days are long everything goes to hell. Traffic accidents increase, efficiency goes out the window and every bit of laziness in a country is blamed on it. Oh by the way, I have seen people arrested and caned for eating or drinking in public, perhaps if you actually lived in some of the places that it is "from" rather than preaching from the west, you'd have a different perspective.

I am a little confused as the first part of your post (bolded) seems to contradict the rest. But anyways, I'll play along.

I agree with you. They are many who pretend to fast, don't fast, hate fasting, are athiest, using fasting as an excuse to be lazy etc. So?

I can speak with experience about only a couple of places including Dubai, Karachi/Islamabad/Lahore, Jeddah & Muscat. In none of these places have I seen "everything going to hell." I find traffic to be much lighter. Moreover, I find it easier to work when I am fasting (YMMV.)

Also - c ould you please give an example of a place where this caneing happens?

Sadiq, I was not addressing you, I was addressing Rph who decided that he is so much more knowledgable than I am. Caning, witnessed in Morocco of all places. Arrest, Qatar (although granted under the old rather than more recent regime).

Kinda OT, but one of my friends flew Biz Class to Brunei on Royal Brunei (BI). He said that at the beginning of the flight, they had a call to prayer. Worse yet, since Brunei is a strict muslim country, no alcohol was served on the plane - not even in the biz cabing (longhaul flight).

Is alcohol permitted in Brunei?

I'm aware of a few airlines that are "dry" airlines, whether it is Ramadan or not...

Is alcohol permitted in Brunei?


Yes, if you arrived with limited quantities for your own consumption.

THY is a European airline and should be as usual in the other European Airlines section. ..... The food is not Helal, but they do not serve pork products.
FWIW

Halal means permissible food hence Pork or pork based products is not permissible and is not served ( you won't get bacon and eggs for breakfast) .
Zabihah means halal meat slaughtered according to islamic rites and a Zabihah restaurant will not serve alcohol whilst a restaurant that serve halal food may carry an alcohol license to serve alcoholic drinks.

Ohhh I miss those December UK fasts. I used to finish clas and it was already time. Now time is like 720pm, still not too bad.
Whilst those who are fasting in sub-saharan Africa in December or January will look up to their Northern Hemisphere brethen with envy :)
Been there and seen it ;)

Yes, and that is why I stated what I stated, THY doesn;t serve pork, but none of the other food they serve is certified as halal either, i.e. none is up to snuff (although little secret for you, I have been to large fod operations in several companies in the Muslim world, and other than a document up on a wall and a prayer on a loop on the sound system (reduced to the minimum possible volume) there is no control whatsoever and the Imams maybe come around once a year for a "tip" and do not even examine/inspect anything.

The only airline where I have seen Muslims praying is on Syrianair, which almost resulted in an aborted take off when two elderly gentlemen got up to pray when we were on the taxiway at MUC. Otherwise, nothing notable at all, even on SV.

Kinda OT, but one of my friends flew Biz Class to Brunei on Royal Brunei (BI). He said that at the beginning of the flight, they had a call to prayer. Worse yet, since Brunei is a strict muslim country, no alcohol was served on the plane - not even in the biz cabing (longhaul flight).

Royal Brunei do (or did) offer to chill and serve alcohol you take on baord however. Given the very low fares they tend to offer, this isn't such a bad idea, choosing your inflight drinks in duty free. It certainly beats having to endure Monopole on BA ;)

Thanks for this useful tip - worth checking into if good fares become available :)

Royal Brunei do (or did) offer to chill and serve alcohol you take on baord however. Given the very low fares they tend to offer, this isn't such a bad idea, choosing your inflight drinks in duty free. It certainly beats having to endure Monopole on BA ;)

In all of my flying, regardless of the carrier's origin, no one's prayer has ever made enough of an impression on my that I remember it. This includes flights on Emirates, Qatar, Gulf, Royal Jordanian, Saudia, and Turkish. I do recall seeing some people come out of the dedicated prayer room on a Saudia 777. The Middle Eastern carriers generally include a prayer played on the video system prior to the safety video and indicate the direction of Makkah on the flight map. I don't recall either of these on Turkish.