Starwood Preferred Guest - When SPG Doesnt work. No blackoutdates not true.

OK,
So here is one for the Starwood lurkers...
I need to go to Milan on Monday for a meeting
The cheapest SPG property is 296 EUR per night for a single room which is fairly expensive. This is a single room. So, I decide what a great chance to use some points!
There is availability showing at all the hotels.
I get this message when I go to book with points
We're sorry, this hotel does not have a room available for the date(s) you requested. Please change your date(s) or for more information, contact your closest Customer Contact Center.
Every hotel in Milan shows availability. For a room, not suites etc.
So I call the Customer Contact Centre. They explain to me that it is not available.
So I call the Hotel Directly. They explain they have blacked out the dates as there is a trade fair on.
Now, I understand special events, but if you black out for every trade fair...
I am looking for a standard single room. There are rooms available. I know this as I subsequently booked one through spg. The confirmation reads
Arrival Date 25-SEP-2006

Departure Date 26-SEP-2006

Number of Rooms 1

Number of Guests 1


Your Accommodations: Room 1 of 1
Room Description
1 SINGLE BED
DELUXE NON-SMOKING ROOM, SWEET SLEEPER BED, EMPIRE STYLE ROOM, CITYSIDE ROOM, WIRELESS INTERNET CONNECTION, COMFORTABLE AND QUIET NON-SMOKING ROOM, LOCATED ON ALL FLOOR S, OVERLOOKING THE STREET


Guest Name TRAVELSIG

Number of Adults 1

Number of Children 0

Remarks



Your Rate: Room 1 of 1

Rate for 25-Sep-06 to 26-Sep-06
Rate Plan: BEST AVAILABLE RATE
296.00 in EURO per night

Taxes
VAT 10.0 Percent Per Room Per Night IS In The Rate

Guarantee Rules and Cancellation Policy
Your room is guaranteed with a(n) AMEX / OPTIMA card.
Cancel by 6pm Hotel time 1 Day(s) prior to avoid 1 Night penalty
Room taxes are included in penalties.


So, please Starwood Lurker, or another FTer, what am I doing wrong here? It appears ALL THE MILAN HOTELS have blacked out for every trade fair and fashion week for this year. Cutting up my SPG card....

So this bothered me enough I phoned back to Sheraton and spoke with a supervisor. She confirmed this is true, and told me that they have blacked out until 2OCT. I asked her why, and she could not tell me. She said this is the way it is. We were having a bit of a communication problem as her English was not at a fluent level. Anyway...

Just guessing, but the standard award is for standard rooms. It looks like you have booked a deluxe.

Your Accommodations: Room 1 of 1
Room Description
1 SINGLE BED
DELUXE NON-SMOKING ROOM,

Just guessing, but the standard award is for standard rooms. It looks like you have booked a deluxe.

Your Accommodations: Room 1 of 1
Room Description
1 SINGLE BED
DELUXE NON-SMOKING ROOM,
This could be it. But I don't think, with the exception of the Meridien, that the hotels in Milan have standard rooms...

This could be it. But I don't think, with the exception of the Meridien, that the hotels in Milan have standard rooms...

I just checked the Westin Milan and I think that there standard room is referred to as:

"Classic Non-smoking Room, Classical Furniture, Deluxe Bath Amenities, Heavenly Bed, Wireless Internet/fee"

I just checked the Westin Milan and I think that there standard room is referred to as:

"Classic Non-smoking Room, Classical Furniture, Deluxe Bath Amenities, Heavenly Bed, Wireless Internet/fee"
First of all, thanks for the help?
Can you find any availability of such a room?

First of all, thanks for the help?
Can you find any availability of such a room?

Not for the date that you specified, hence that's the reason that you probably can't book a reward room. You might want to call back and ask SPG if you can redeem more points for a deluxe room. @:-)

But, checking both the Westin and the Sheraton, yes, I found availiability for December 22nd at both.

Not for the date that you specified, hence that's the reason that you probably can't book a reward room. You might want to call back and ask SPG if you can redeem more points for a deluxe room. @:-)

But, checking both the Westin and the Sheraton, yes, I found availiability for December 22nd at both.
Thanks bigjim for all the checking.
I had phoned the Sheraton Diana Majestic, and that was where they told me no. The SPG supervisor also said no.

Thanks bigjim for all the checking.
I had phoned the Sheraton Diana Majestic, and that was where they told me no. The SPG supervisor also said no.

Points can be used for higher category rooms than the standard rooms, just at additional points per night. The "no blackouts"/"no capacity controls" applies to those higher category rooms too when calling up Starwood Preferred Guest directly, right?

Points can be used for higher category rooms than the standard rooms, just at additional points per night. The "no blackouts"/"no capacity controls" applies to those higher category rooms too when calling up Starwood Preferred Guest directly, right?

It is correct, however, not all hotels offer that feature. i.e. Some hotels don't allow using additional points for higher room category. :td: There should be no capacify control if that feature is offered.

So I call the Hotel Directly. They explain they have blacked out the dates as there is a trade fair on.
Now, I understand special events, but if you black out for every trade fair...

Do you understand this? If you do, then I certainly don't.

My understanding from this recent thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=589425) is that there is no basis for such award blackouts as long as standard rooms are available for cash. I certainly can't find a defense for standard award blackouts in the SPG T&Cs.

As William pointed out, there are blackout dates for the Platinum benefit of guaranteed 72-hour advance availability, though. This Plat benefit blackout could easily be confused with award blackouts. This exception is mentioned in the T&Cs, but there are no details there about when those dates are determined nor who determines them.

The challenging part of your situation, though, is that you have to know what a "standard" room is at each property in order to know whether they even have one for cash.

Edit:
Four Points Milan's hotel-owned website explains the room breakdown as follows:
"205 rooms: 66 Superior, 129 Classic, 10 Suites, 76 rooms are reserved for non smoking guests."

Westin Palace: 228 rooms, 13 suites, 1 Presidential Suite (split-level). I see several different awards here for 9/23/06.

Sheraton Dianna Majestic: 107 rooms and suites. Among their room types are terms including Garden View and Classic. I see an award here on 9/24/06 that I would presume to be one of these. Based on my searches for other dates, I would guess that "Deluxe" rooms are not standard rooms here.

I don't think that the hotels are doing anything wrong here. It looks to me as if they truly are out of standard rooms for the full range of dates that you want. You could, however, get some nights as awards and some nights as paid nights. You might have to switch rooms, though, or offer to take the lesser room for the whole stay despite paying for a Deluxe on your cash nights.

There should be no capacify control if that feature is offered.
On what are you basing this statement? I suspect that the hotels are given a lot more flexibility with regards to availability of higher rewards. They're not required to offer them at all, so why should we expect them to also be free of capacity controls?

I'd like to see an official statement, though. I'd prefer that you are correct, TerryK.

The deal is that if they are offering Standard rooms for sale, they have to do so for points. If they are only offering levels above that for cash, then they may or may not offer awards at higher rates. As we found out recently in my Juan-Les-Pins thread, hotels *do not* have to offer anything but standard rooms for awards - even if that have say 5% of all rooms labeled as Standard.

In such a case those 5% would be in a joint pool of cash/award availability and when they are gone, they are gone. The remaining 95% would then be cash only.

Now what strikes me as odd is you say they told you specifically that awards only are blacked out. IF you can confirm a night that the Standard room is available (classic?) and you still cannot book that with an award, William may need to look into it. I don't believe they can black out standard awards if the standard room type is being sold without violating the T&C's. Of course, I could be wrong ;-)

LOCATED ON ALL FLOOR S

How tall is this hotel? This many-storied room sounds very interesting. :)

But yeah, I agree with you. It sucks when these hidden blackout restrictions are in place and it takes quite a bit of effort to figure out what's actually going on. The basic website information needs to more clearly state in some fashion that there are IN GENERAL no blackout restrictions, but that they may apply in some cases. Instead SPG is just promoted as having absolutely no blackouts, when we know that isn't the case.

I will say that the lack of blackout dates (mostly) is a good feature and often works well...but it is frustrating when you do run into the not-so-well-described restrictions. But it could be worse, and they could have more general blackout dates.

Actually, what's more annoying is when there is NO blackout but a property has decided to not release all inventory to SPG. And when said inventory contains rooms that fit the award room type. I ran into this at a Tokyo hotel where I had two sets of 2 nights booked with a gap in the middle. It was the best I could do on short notice, and had booked each with an SPG50 and hoped I could fill in the missing day when I got there. And indeed I could, as they had the basic award room type available! ...except only for direct reservations and not via SPG. Ended up booking it, being told I was getting the same SPG50 rate, not getting that rate (got something 50% above it), opening a corporate customer care case, and finally having the hotel fix the rate for that night after much consternation. But anyways, I don't think a property should be allowed to hold their own inventory if they want to participate in SPG unless it's due to exceptional circumstances. In this case it was not.

I'm currently at a Scandic property in Stockholm. Ran into similar problems here where I couldn't find an award room. But I called the property and they had the basic room type available for the days I wanted to stay. Unlike SPG, Hilton properties can actually book an award directly, so I was able to book the nights I wanted. This is also much less than ideal, since when there are a bunch of properties in one area, there is absolutely no reason that you should have to individually call them to try to get an award booking. (And Hilton has the same "no blackouts" policy... but again, the hotels can hold private inventory for no reason other than that they want to.) This is what being part of a program like SPG or Hilton is for. I understand something like, say, blacking out awards during the Olympics. But just randomly doing it makes for unhappy guests.

The deal is that if they are offering Standard rooms for sale, they have to do so for points. If they are only offering levels above that for cash, then they may or may not offer awards at higher rates. As we found out recently in my Juan-Les-Pins thread, hotels *do not* have to offer anything but standard rooms for awards - even if that have say 5% of all rooms labeled as Standard.

In such a case those 5% would be in a joint pool of cash/award availability and when they are gone, they are gone. The remaining 95% would then be cash only.

Now what strikes me as odd is you say they told you specifically that awards only are blacked out. IF you can confirm a night that the Standard room is available (classic?) and you still cannot book that with an award, William may need to look into it. I don't believe they can black out standard awards if the standard room type is being sold without violating the T&C's. Of course, I could be wrong ;-)

It would be interesting to know the % of rooms in a given hotel (or even brand) that are standard rooms (i.e., available for SPG reward stays at the advertised basic category award level).

The deal is that if they are offering Standard rooms for sale, they have to do so for points.

Now what strikes me as odd is you say they told you specifically that awards only are blacked out. IF you can confirm a night that the Standard room is available (classic?) and you still cannot book that with an award, William may need to look into it. I don't believe they can black out standard awards if the standard room type is being sold without violating the T&C's. Of course, I could be wrong ;-)

The OP correctly mentioned the special events exception. Hotels can request (demand?) that certain dates be exempted from the no black out rule during special events. These events usually dont' affect most of us as they tend to be relatively rare.

A trade show doesn't sound like it should qualify as a special events unless its one of the huge one like Consumer electronics.

Do you understand this? If you do, then I certainly don't.

My understanding from this recent thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=589425) is that there is no basis for such award blackouts as long as standard rooms are available for cash. I certainly can't find a defense for standard award blackouts in the SPG T&Cs.

As William pointed out, there are blackout dates for the Platinum benefit of guaranteed 72-hour advance availability, though. This Plat benefit blackout could easily be confused with award blackouts. This exception is mentioned in the T&Cs, but there are no details there about when those dates are determined nor who determines them.

The challenging part of your situation, though, is that you have to know what a "standard" room is at each property in order to know whether they even have one for cash.

Edit:
Four Points Milan's hotel-owned website explains the room breakdown as follows:
"205 rooms: 66 Superior, 129 Classic, 10 Suites, 76 rooms are reserved for non smoking guests."

Westin Palace: 228 rooms, 13 suites, 1 Presidential Suite (split-level). I see several different awards here for 9/23/06.

Sheraton Dianna Majestic: 107 rooms and suites. Among their room types are terms including Garden View and Classic. I see an award here on 9/24/06 that I would presume to be one of these. Based on my searches for other dates, I would guess that "Deluxe" rooms are not standard rooms here.

I don't think that the hotels are doing anything wrong here. It looks to me as if they truly are out of standard rooms for the full range of dates that you want. You could, however, get some nights as awards and some nights as paid nights. You might have to switch rooms, though, or offer to take the lesser room for the whole stay despite paying for a Deluxe on your cash nights.
Yes, but can it make even remote sense that every hotel includng the Meridien is sold out of award rooms until the 2 OCT?
Anyway, thanks for all the help and comments.

Yes, but can it make even remote sense that every hotel includng the Meridien is sold out of award rooms until the 2 OCT?
Anyway, thanks for all the help and comments.

It makes sense in that the fashion shows end on OCT 2. All the people coming into Milan for the shows and filling up the hotels in the city have corporate rates and corporate rates are usually for standard rooms, so standard rooms were the first to go

It would be interesting to know the % of rooms in a given hotel (or even brand) that are standard rooms (i.e., available for SPG reward stays at the advertised basic category award level).

It would also be interestingto know if the definition of "standard room" changes depending upon date/demand.

The OP correctly mentioned the special events exception. Hotels can request (demand?) that certain dates be exempted from the no black out rule during special events. These events usually dont' affect most of us as they tend to be relatively rare.

A trade show doesn't sound like it should qualify as a special events unless its one of the huge one like Consumer electronics.

This could apply as far as the 72 Platinum forced availability benefit is concerned, but not on standard Preferred (free) Night Awards if classic rooms are available for sale.

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

This could apply as far as the 72 Platinum forced availability benefit is concerned, but not on standard Preferred (free) Night Awards if classic rooms are available for sale.
William, did you mean "are available" or "are not available"? Or have I had one too many G&T's! :o

William, did you mean "are available" or "are not available"? Or have I had one too many G&T's! :o

What I'm saying is that if a classic room is available for sale, then a standard Preferred (free) Night Award should also be available for redemption purposes. When it isn't then we need to find out why, but it would be a good thing to remember that - even though everyone likes a good conspiracy theory - it is most often a mechanical problem when this dichotomy exists. ;)

Sincerely,


William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Yes, but can it make even remote sense that every hotel includng the Meridien is sold out of award rooms until the 2 OCT?
Anyway, thanks for all the help and comments.
This is not true. The Westin Milan has award rooms on Sep 28 - Oct 1. On Oct 1, they only have Grand Deluxe Rooms and Jr Suites, though. On Sep 28, they are completely sold out. Only the 4P even has rooms for cash on Sep 28.

On several days during this week, I found a Classic room at the 4P available for Cash when it did not offer it as an award. This is the only suspicious looking scenario that I saw. If this is the room you need, then contact SPG. To their credit, this isn't an anomaly that is unique to this week. I couldn't find an award there on some dates a month from now, either. (Though I did find some in Dec.) It is possible that some Classics are "standard" and others are not, though I would hope that they can defend the difference.

What I'm saying is that if a classic room is available for sale, then a standard Preferred (free) Night Award should also be available for redemption purposes. When it isn't then we need to find out why, but it would be a good thing to remember that - even though everyone likes a good conspiracy theory - it is most often a mechanical problem when this dichotomy exists. ;)
Thank You! After all who needs John Grisham when one has FT. ;)

This probably isn't new news for everyone out there, but I was disappointed to learn this. I saw clearly on the website that standard rooms were available, but was told by a rep they were blocked. I emailed for a clarification on their "no blackout" policy and the response I received was the following:

I have researched this matter on your behalf and found that the hotel can block out Starpoints redemption on traditional rooms when a mandatory rate plan is in effect. This is because the rooms at that time are selling for higher than normal.

So, I guess there are no blackout dates unless the hotel decides they can charge rack rate for a room... While not shocking, it is frustrating that SPG can claim there are no blackout dates and make statements like "If we have a standard room available, it’s yours!" without at least having a footnote stating they won't make rooms available if they can charge a premium for them.

deleted

This probably isn't new news for everyone out there, but I was disappointed to learn this. I saw clearly on the website that standard rooms were available, but was told by a rep they were blocked. I emailed for a clarification on their "no blackout" policy and the response I received was the following:

I have researched this matter on your behalf and found that the hotel can block out Starpoints redemption on traditional rooms when a mandatory rate plan is in effect. This is because the rooms at that time are selling for higher than normal.

So, I guess there are no blackout dates unless the hotel decides they can charge rack rate for a room... While not shocking, it is frustrating that SPG can claim there are no blackout dates and make statements like "If we have a standard room available, it’s yours!" without at least having a footnote stating they won't make rooms available if they can charge a premium for them.

My two cents here...I think you were misinformed. I think there is some kind of technical issue at play here that has confused the issue on both sides. If you would like for me to see if that is indeed the case, then send me your account number, the name of the hotel, and the dates of the stay request.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I have researched this matter on your behalf and found that the hotel can block out Starpoints redemption on traditional rooms when a mandatory rate plan is in effect. This is because the rooms at that time are selling for higher than normal.
Who was it that wrote that? Someone from the hotel or from Starwood?
As William has indicated (and according to the T&C) this isn't true.

Sometimes things do get screwed up, and, unfortunately, some employees (both SPG and hotel) make things up in order to come up with an explanation.

My two cents here...I think you were misinformed. I think there is some kind of technical issue at play here that has confused the issue on both sides. If you would like for me to see if that is indeed the case, then send me your account number, the name of the hotel, and the dates of the stay request.
Please do PM William so that this can be fixed for you and other guests.

I've sent the requested information and the email exchange to William. Hopefully it is a misunderstanding -- will report back later.

Oh, and the email response I received was from SPG Customer Service, not the hotel.

Well, I am happy to post that it does seem the hotel made some sort of mistake in how they loaded their inventory. With William's help, this has been resolved and I was able to redeem for a room.

Well, I am happy to post that it does seem the hotel made some sort of mistake in how they loaded their inventory. With William's help, this has been resolved and I was able to redeem for a room.

william is the best.