Travel Technology - Places where non-local credit cards don't work

I don't quite know where to post this, so Travel Technology seemed a good place to start. If the moderator wants to move the thread to a better home please feel free.

Diverse threads have talked about how in many situations non-local credit cards won't work. I've most commonly experienced this at ticket machines in train stations and at toll booths on highways. Some reports say that typically any European Credit Card will work, sometimes people say only a card issued in the country is valid.

I'm curious about why this is. Is it some technical issue of how the machines are hooked up (or aren't hooked up) to the credit system? Is it some difference with the way information is encoded on the mag stripe? Does it have something to do with carrying charges that the system doesn't want to incur? Or is it just one of those things that beaurocracy has managed to mess up? My American Credit Cards seem to work everywhere else (hotels, restaurants, shops, museums, etc.) with no problem, the problem is just with these unattended machines. Some people have pointed out that the AmEx will sometimes work when other cards won't, but I can't say this has been my experience.

I've increasingly noticed that ticket machines, in particular, will ONLY take a credit card and that they have no ability to ingest either coins or paper currency, forcing all non-locals to stand in line at the ticket window. Of course, you find this out after working your way through the entire selection menu (which has a perfect English interface) only to have your Credit Card rejected at the last step with some obscure message like "card not recognized".

editing to add: The train station situation is especially frustrating, since you're always in a hurry, somewhat disoriented, not quite sure to do with the mysterious buttons on a machine you've never used before (love the French roller bar) and there are always people queued up behind you waiting for the stupid tourist to finish.

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the international network the card is signed up with. Interlink, Plus, Cirrus are just a few of them, I've seen Visa cards that work fine in the US but are not part of Cirrus. These are called "interbank networks".

Here is some more on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_%28interbank_network%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbank_network

I've been at unmanned gasoline pumps in remote places outside of the US where my US credit card was recognised by the pump but where I couldn't get gas. Why? I needed to enter a PIN and there is no PIN associated with my account (or any US credit cards that I know of).

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the international network the card is signed up with. Interlink, Plus, Cirrus are just a few of them, I've seen Visa cards that work fine in the US but are not part of Cirrus. These are called "interbank networks".

Here is some more on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_%28interbank_network%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbank_network

Correct about the interbank network, but I don't think this is the problem in this case - all my cards are affiliated with one of those networks, usually Cirrus.

And, to also answer xyzzy, my US credit cards all DO actually have a PIN. I think this is standard, and I've usually been prompted to select a PIN when I call in to confirm the receipt of the new card.

They refused my credit card at a pub in the UK because it didn't have a chip in it.

Cuba - surprisingly. Although they take some cards, no cards issued from US banks will work. Also all Maestro and Amex cards don't work either.

The UK did switch over to chip and pin earlier this year. Non chip and pin cards can be accepted at most places with relevant picture id (driving licence or passpoprt)

And, to also answer xyzzy, my US credit cards all DO actually have a PIN. I think this is standard, and I've usually been prompted to select a PIN when I call in to confirm the receipt of the new card.If your card is an ATM card and a Visa/MC then maybe it does. I don't have any of those. I've also never been asked to pick a PIN for my cards.

If your card is an ATM card and a Visa/MC then maybe it does. I don't have any of those. I've also never been asked to pick a PIN for my cards.

Strange, both my regular VISA cards, as well as the AMEX, none of which are also debit/ATM cards, have PINs.

USA. No seriously, I live in the USA and my chase VISA works in the self-serve Avgas pump at my local aiport, whereas my Wells Fargo Visa doesn't. Go figure!

editing to add: The train station situation is especially frustrating, since you're always in a hurry, somewhat disoriented, not quite sure to do with the mysterious buttons on a machine you've never used before (love the French roller bar) and there are always people queued up behind you waiting for the stupid tourist to finish.

I too had the "train station problem" in France this year; none of my 3+ US-issued Visa/MC credit cards or 2 debit cards would work in the long-distance train kiosks. These kiosks do not take cash. My credit cards worked fine in the Metro kiosks, and European-issued credit cards clearly worked fine in the long-distance-train kiosks. My US-issued credit card of course worked fine at the ticket counter after waiting in line and having to work with an agent. The same problem occured at multiple train stations, so it was definatley systemic. I've never had this problem in any other European country. I eventually decided the only rational explanation was French anti-Americanism. :mad:

So I complained to Chase and Visa, who issue my Mileage Plus Visa on which I spend much money and for which I pay an annual fee. Grounds of complaint: My understanding is that merchants displaying the Visa logo must accept all Visa cards; the French kiosks display the logo and do not accept the cards; therefore you should demand that the French quit displaying the Visa logo.

Good old outsourced customer service cluelessly misinterpreted the point of my letter. Two months later I got a letter thanking me for "notifying Chase in advance of my planned international travel." Since I had sent no such notice and have concerns about identity theft, I ended up wasting half an hour on the phone with CS before they figured out that my post-travel letter had triggered the "thank-you for pre-travel notification" letter. :rolleyes: And I still have received no acceptable response as to why French kiosks can display the Visa logo and not accept Visa cards.

They refused my credit card at a pub in the UK because it didn't have a chip in it.
I had this happen in Frankfurt, but no problems in Berlin.

Why? My experience/hunchs:
-Crap communications linkage from Country XYZ to the central database (sometimes repeating the same transaction results in success)
-Bizarre transaction value limits (like less than US$100 in many parts of S. America)
-Retarded antifraud measures. Washington Mutual refused an NZ$40 withdrawl (to protect me from fraud :rolleyes: )

Oyster kiosks on the London Tube won't take my cards because don't have a chip+pin

Lots of automated machines in France these days only seem to take credit cards that have smart chips embedded in them. It's quite annoying.

(sometimes repeating the same transaction results in success)

and sometimes you end up with double charge. it happened to me in AMS
but my CC company wiped it out for me without any trouble.


-Retarded antifraud measures. Washington Mutual refused an NZ$40 withdrawl (to protect me from fraud :rolleyes: )
it helps to call them before you visit another country.

deleted

Strange, both my regular VISA cards, as well as the AMEX, none of which are also debit/ATM cards, have PINs.
IIRC, PINs on credit cards or charge cards are required when doing cash withdrawal/advance. When PINs are entered/used, the transactions will be treated as cash advance, (interests start kicking in the day you use it) thus no grace period.

All the credit card companies generally pre-assign the PINs for your cards then mail it to you, unless you have picked your own PIN during the account/card activation process ( during which you will be given the opportunity to decline PIN-generated process also). Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to conduct creditcard transactions that require PIN for the cash advance nature of it.

However, the Visa Check cards (or the ATM/Debit/Credit sort) associated with the bank checking accounts work as both credit card and ATM card. They do have PINs. When no PIN is used, the transactions are recognized as creditcard type. If PIN is used, it's treated like a debit/check type. Either way, the money is deducted from the bank account immediately (virtually speaking ;) ) so the card holders have to make sure sufficient fund in the bank accounts to cover the transactions beforehand.

Correct me if I am wrong. I learned all of these from my US-based credit cards (AmEx, Visa/Mastercard from Citi, Chase, MBNA, BOA...) over the years. To be honest, I've never used my Visa Check cards to conduct any creditcard type of transactions though. I have strictly used them as ATM cards. I use my points/miles earning creditcards at places where creditcard is accepted.

I would say the denial of creditcard at POT (point of transaction) overseas depends on a number of factors, such as card issuers, destination countries, local regulations..etc. For example, Chase creditcards would run into more problems in Asia due to high fraud incidents. (I personally learned it in a hard way.) The anti-fraud protection sometimes makes things more difficult when people travel out of the country, even with your advanced acknowledgement to CC companies. :rolleyes:

In unattended POT, such as ticket or train machines, it's very frustrating and annoying since the card denial problem can't be solved by calling CC CSR to straighten things out.

I haven't visited Europe in the last 10 years so don't know how difficult it is to use non-chip type of creditcard there. Based on other earlier posts, it seems some European countries have designed their systems and machines to work either with chip-imbedded cards or PINs. I guess we just have to do more research of the local banking/ATM/Ticketing system before taking oversea trips.

Oyster kiosks on the London Tube won't take my cards because don't have a chip+pin

Worked fine with my AMEX last June I was there

Worked fine with my AMEX last June I was there
My amex didn't work, but it doesn't have a chip. Were you using a blue one with a chip?

But yes, I'm finding it more and more difficult to use my non-chipped cards overseas, and I travel over to Europe regularly. I need to pester my bank and see if I can get a chipped card.

Oyster kiosks on the London Tube won't take my cards because don't have a chip+pin

That's right; however, you can go to the manned windows (if they are open, which may not always be the case if you are travelling from outer London) and have your transaction processed there.

If you are at an unmanned station, you can travel to your destination, and then explain to a gate guard why you do not have a ticket. Don't try and use this as a freebie though, because they WILL call the originating station to see if it was manned or not!

My amex didn't work, but it doesn't have a chip. Were you using a blue one with a chip?

But yes, I'm finding it more and more difficult to use my non-chipped cards overseas, and I travel over to Europe regularly. I need to pester my bank and see if I can get a chipped card.


No, I got the plat USA card. I topped mine with those black machines with no problem. Maybe I got lucky, or they didnt update it yet. It was June '06 last I was there.

Though yeah, I noticed other than that here in Poland, some ATMs dont take my USA debit cards if they dont have the interlink symbol on the ATM.

I think there's two problems. One is geographic restrictions based on a perception of fraud. They think legitimate use by someone out of the area is unlikely, so they require you to see a cashier. Or the card issuer may decline the transaction outright.

The other problem is merchants unable to deal with anything other than the normal approval process. The highly trained :rolleyes: counter help may not know what to do if a signature is required (for a non-chip card) or if they need to call for an approval.

I've been at unmanned gasoline pumps in remote places outside of the US where my US credit card was recognised by the pump but where I couldn't get gas. Why? I needed to enter a PIN and there is no PIN associated with my account (or any US credit cards that I know of).
You can get your credit card company to link a PIN to you CC but be advised that this will amount to a transaction on a Debit Card every time you use the PIN

I, too, have run into the Oyster kiosk problem. I found one kiosk that actually took my US Amex, but after realizing that the vast majority require chip and PIN I just go to the attendant to top up.

Amex has been putting a non-EU-compatible chip in the Blue product for several years, obviously. It's a shame our credit card companies can't just get with the rest of the Western world and add chip and PIN/signature support. I suppose retailers wouldn't want to invest in the new equipment.

They refused my credit card at a pub in the UK because it didn't have a chip in it.

I believe this is illegal in the UK. Of course, they could refuse your card for some other false, spurious reason, but not simply because it had no chip.

I haven't had any problems using my US credit cards anywhere in Europe other than the obvious cases where there was no human around.

I believe this is illegal in the UK. Of course, they could refuse your card for some other false, spurious reason, but not simply because it had no chip.


No, its not illegal. Any shop can refuse to take your credit card for any reason - credit card acceptance is at their discretion. Cash remains the only legal tender in the UK - and in fact in most cases because there is no debt involved, they don't even have to take that if they don't want to. (Hence signs saying "Sorry, no £50 notes" etc.)

UK bank/merchant agreements have been changed recently and merchants are worried that in the case of fraud they will be held liable if they took a card without a PIN. I believe this is not the case if the card itself is not chip+PIN. Nevertheless my experience as a merchant is that banks can be a pain to deal with when a transaction is disputed and I would probably now be wary of taking non-PIN cards in London.

I have found generally that credit cards work better than debit cards when travelling - even if they have the VISA logo on them.

I went through 3 different UK visa/mastercard credit cards at a Paris CDG train station without success - before my friend inserted her Vietnamese Vietcombank VISA card and it worked first time.

Everytime I develop a theory to explain which cards work where and why, an exception pops up. I think the rule is always take 2 or 3, make sure you have some local currency - or access to it, and keep magnetic stripes away from mobile phones.

Here in Israel not all credit cards issued are international credit cards. You have to request the issuer, normally your bank, issue you an international card. Last year i requested one when a new job meant I'd need to travel quite a bit. My first trip included time in India and Australia with transit stops in SIN and BKK. My last evening of a three week trip I was out shopping for gifts when my card stopped being accepted. The bank had shut it down due to seeing lots of international charges. Luckily I had another card with me that I could use to pay my hotel tab.