Travel Technology - Zune announced...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/microsoft-launches-the-zune/

Besdies the terrible name I really don't see this going anywhere. Design is "ok", the big feature they are gambling on is WiFi, I just don't see myself sharing tracks with people I know/don't know.

Plus; by the time this hits the shelves Apple will/may hopefully have a true video ipod device ready that'll kick Zunes backside.

Of course some "iPod haters" will buy it simply because it isn't an ipod, but I tried that, and you always end up with the iPod, nothing beats it.

The WiFi and the radio do seem to give Zune a slight edge. It will be interesting to see how good the screen is. A lot of people tend to say, 'why would I want to watch stuff on such a small screen?', but ultimately the quality of the screen does matter.

Edited to add: Does it only come in 30Gb? I've only read specs that say it's 30Gb.

It looks like a brick. Geeky. Not sexy enough for me to want to buy it. The brown one looks like poo.

I would think that having a photo in the background of you menus would really decrease legibility.

They have a big round wheel, but it is actually a 4/5 way pad instead of spinning like the iPod.

I do like that the shape of the screen allows a large area to display the album cover and the playback controls below. Only QVGA, same as the iPod. Might look pixelated.

yawn
:o

I really don't know what the edge is that WiFi will give it. Microsoft will really have to come up with something more than just exchanging music and pictures. With all the brainpower Microsoft has I'm really disappointed in this device, in essence it is just a rebadged Toshiba player with added wifi and a souped up UI. I'm sure it'll sell in decent amounts, most likely putting the likes of Creative and iRiver out of the market in the US, but a threat to the iPod it is not.

I don't see it transforming the music delivery industry, and that is just what it will have to do.

itunes, represents 88% of the download market. Granted, I'm talking just LEGAL downloads here, if you got 1MM songs from allofmp3.com, good on ya!.

But, the subsciption, pay every month, get all you want, never OWN your music model has been dying dying dying. Napster revs are DOWN not up. I think, and I don't just drink the KoolAid, but to quote a GREAT MAN!! "people want to own their music" SJ, ca. 2005.

WIFI is nice, but I think it will be a battery hog. Heck, we KNOW it is a battery hog. I am not going to share my music with people while on the road, I LIKE the idea, but don't/ don't want to do it. Having WIFI might be interesting, for downloading new music, but for the most part I am never more than three feet away from a lappy, and a usb2.0 cable. I think many people are not far from a computer, 97% of the time. The nice thing that was just implimented in the latest itunes 7.0 (I know, has some issues) is the ability to BUY music with your itunes account, on another computer, and immediatly download it, and then UPLOAD it back to your main computers. GREAT, I don't have to have THE computer with me for downloading.

I like the screen, but apple will have something similar, I say in 4-8 months. And it won't just be similar, it will be better. Again, I'm drinkin' A&W here.

In order for the Zune to really work and take off, the music service has to work and take off, and I just don't see that happen'in

I don't see it transforming the music delivery industry, and that is just what it will have to do.

itunes, represents 88% of the download market. Granted, I'm talking just LEGAL downloads here, if you got 1MM songs from allofmp3.com, good on ya!.

But, the subsciption, pay every month, get all you want, never OWN your music model has been dying dying dying. Napster revs are DOWN not up. I think, and I don't just drink the KoolAid, but to quote a GREAT MAN!! "people want to own their music" SJ, ca. 2005.

WIFI is nice, but I think it will be a battery hog. Heck, we KNOW it is a battery hog. I am not going to share my music with people while on the road, I LIKE the idea, but don't/ don't want to do it. Having WIFI might be interesting, for downloading new music, but for the most part I am never more than three feet away from a lappy, and a usb2.0 cable. I think many people are not far from a computer, 97% of the time. The nice thing that was just implimented in the latest itunes 7.0 (I know, has some issues) is the ability to BUY music with your itunes account, on another computer, and immediatly download it, and then UPLOAD it back to your main computers. GREAT, I don't have to have THE computer with me for downloading.

I like the screen, but apple will have something similar, I say in 4-8 months. And it won't just be similar, it will be better. Again, I'm drinkin' A&W here.

In order for the Zune to really work and take off, the music service has to work and take off, and I just don't see that happen'in


What % of downloads are legal? That's the interesting number.

Get some open source guy to write a p2p app that allows you to xfer stuff with others in range automatically and you have something that's really appealing in the 15-30 demographic.

What % of downloads are legal? That's the interesting number.

A very, very small number.

"hot" material can explode overnight. I've seen the same track (as matched by file hash) go from 1 machine to 1 million in 20 hours.

Steve

Another datapoint mentioned in Apple's press event on Tues...

Apple is now #5 in legal music sales of any variety (CD/download/etc).

#1 is WalMart
#2 is Best Buy
#3 is Target
#4 is Amazon
#5 is the iTunes Music Store

Steve said that Apple is slated to move to #4 and overtake Amazon in Q1 of 2007.

Steve said that Apple is slated to move to #4 and overtake Amazon in Q1 of 2007.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

I dunno... feels pretty good to me. :p

Anything that will make the stock get back up to $86+ can take away a lot of my pain. :D

I dunno... feels pretty good to me. :p

Anything that will make the stock get back up to $86+ can take away a lot of my pain. :D$86? This isn't going to be it.

I dunno... feels pretty good to me. :p

Anything that will make the stock get back up to $86+ can take away a lot of my pain. :D

oh, tell me you didn't
:confused:

Is it just me or does this thing look more like a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat than anything else??? The wheel isn't.. it's just a directional control, no? IMO the WiFi is WiWorthless... swapping a song that can only do three plays for three days (or is it three plays per day for three days?) Woo... (insert sound of noisemaker here). Sorry, for everything they could've done this device is pathetic. Obviously, don't count MS out. Like everything else (remember IE V1 and 2?) they'll get it right eventually. Apple ain't Netscape though... they'll continue to innovate.

Is it just me or does this thing look more like a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat than anything else???Toshiba is doing the manufacturing.

"What color is your Zune, dude?"

"Brown!"

"Oh! Uhh, ... cool .... "

:rolleyes:

"What color is your Zune, dude?"

"Brown!"

"Oh! Uhh, ... cool .... "

:rolleyes:

Amazingly, some of the reviewers that saw it in real life thought the brown was indeed pretty cool looking...

If it worked with a Mac, I'd consider it, but since it doesn't, I'll just wait for the 3.5" video iPod.

I really don't know what the edge is that WiFi will give it.
It's all up to the software. A device I could plop down (no cabling) that would autosync itself has appeal - I've got somewhere north of 8 USB cables that can/do connect, I would love to reduce that number. Future connectivity wise the idea of a personal digital repository that would wirelessly interact with entertainment centers has appeal. I do not think this functionality will be there.

It's all up to the software. A device I could plop down (no cabling) that would autosync itself has appeal - I've got somewhere north of 8 USB cables that can/do connect, I would love to reduce that number. Future connectivity wise the idea of a personal digital repository that would wirelessly interact with entertainment centers has appeal. I do not think this functionality will be there.

Would it REALLY? Is it really that inconvenient to plop the device in a cradle? I've had a WiFi mp3 player before, and it really wasn't all that impressive.

I agree that in the future Wireless connectivity may add something nice, but at the current stage I just don't see it.

There are many things they can do with this player, but somehow I suspect each time they'll do it, Apple will just do a better job of it.

Would it REALLY? Is it really that inconvenient to plop the device in a cradle?
I interface with 4-6 computers a day (home, office, labs) - I either have to shell out for more cradles/docks or drag a cable along if I want to access my media at every one of those computers. That's a royal PIA - WIFI really would be valuable to me.

As I said, I don't think my desired functionality from WIFI will be there.

WiFi is a lot slower than a cable. How long is it going to take to upload many megabytes of stuff to one of these things?

I interface with 4-6 computers a day (home, office, labs) - I either have to shell out for more cradles/docks or drag a cable along if I want to access my media at every one of those computers. That's a royal PIA - WIFI really would be valuable to me.

As I said, I don't think my desired functionality from WIFI will be there.

To me the future is in WiMax, 3G or EVDO in one of these. A good example of a company that gets it is Amazon, their leaked E-book reader has EVDO and downloads the books you order. I could see a new player in 3-5 years that simply downloads the music you purchased. WiFi is still a PITA to configure, it barely works when you need a public AP and configuring it (security keys etc...) for multiple locations is quite an undertaking (entering a 128bit WEP key using a d-pad will be fun on Zune).

With broadband wireless heading towards the 4mbit range it won't be long till you can download an entire album OTA in 10 minutes. I'd love to grab my player in the morning and have new music on it, podcasts delivered and perhaps some video content (news etc...). WMP was meant to deliver this experience but failed.

Does anyone else use an MP3 player the way that I do?

- I listen to it mostly when I'm flying, occassionally when I have insomnia and don't want to wake my wife.

- I might, occassionally, take a movie or two with me on a trans-Pacific or intercontinental flight. My laptop, however, is a much better movie-viewing device.

- I own my music -- it's all from my CD collection, and I listen to the CDs at home (as well as stream the mp3s to my audio system).

- I have no interest in downloading music, whether or not for a fee, nor am I interested in podcasts of either the audio or video variety.

- I have no interest in sharing music with anyone, I don't care how other people rate music, I'm not interested in the latest popular hit.

- I do like to carry around my entire music collection, so I'm only interested players with large hard drives.

- My mp3 player is a life saver on long flights, so long battery life is critical.

It's clear that player designers don't have people like me in mind -- things like wifi, syncing to on-line download services, etc. are useless to me. On the other hand, only the iPod has a 22-hour battery life (Creative's Jukebox 3, no longer manufactured, had a 24-hour battery life).

I'm curious if the player manufacturers are missing out on a significant, though perhaps not huge, market demographic that is not composed of young people who view music as a social networking tool, i.e. tired business person frequent flyers.

...and you always end up with the iPod, nothing beats it.

Hah! I usually agree with everything else you say, Scott, except this.

I'll stick with my Sony HD5, RH1 Minidisc, and Shure E4C IEMs. Nothing beats *that*, IMHO, although will be interesting to read some field tests of the Zune when it comes out...

Does anyone else use an MP3 player the way that I do?

Actually, PT, that's me to a tee as well, save for the movie-viewing on flights. We've probably been on the same flights at some point. Fully agree that it's a separate market segment, although I wonder just how big it is.

I've actually found that the best investment for me has been the Shure E4C IEMs, which I picked up last year in Singapore. They work great in the kinds of situations you and I are in (where audiophile quality isn't really an issue). Much better, in my opinion, than active noise cancelling phones; instead, these strive for isolation.

Hah! I usually agree with everything else you say, Scott, except this.

I'll stick with my Sony HD5, RH1 Minidisc, and Shure E4C IEMs. Nothing beats *that*, IMHO, although will be interesting to read some field tests of the Zune when it comes out...

For years I was a Minidisc fan, every trip I took to Tokio or HKG would have me returning with an even smaller and even better MD player/recorder, but since the only one that let me put mp3's on it was Sony, and since their software turned out to be the most worthless bit of crap ever programmed I gave up on them.

Actually... Back in 2003 I even recommended them to people...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283047&highlight=minidisc

If only Sony had made the right choices and improved their software AND made a decent PC based MD player/recorder drive it may have been more of a success. FWIW; I recently sold my last MD player on Ebay, I put it up, and 5 minutes later someone did a BIN on it, so there is still plenty of demand for them :D

I'd love to grab my player in the morning and have new music on it, podcasts delivered and perhaps some video content (news etc...). WMP was meant to deliver this experience but failed.

That's the functionality I'm looking for! Wireless - so if I say left the player in the car, it would still update, would be perfect.

What I'd love to see - and would be willing to pay for - would be a customizable 20-30 minutes audio news program for my commute. Have the player download it in the morning before work and in the afternoon before I leave work.

For years I was a Minidisc fan...

Hmmm... I think I actually remember that post... nice blast from the past.

If your collection is primarily mp3, I agree (although not to put words in your mouth) that there is little reason to move to the Sony environment - at least not fully. Sony and mp3 do have a tenuous relationship now, though, in that you can use SonicStage to transfer raw mp3s to new(ish) devices. ATRAC, I'm convinced, is really for those, like me, with extensive CD collections who want that music on the go. Like PTravel's post above, I don't buy or download music, but am starting to think there are less and less of these kinds of people, especially with the Zune music store, iTunes, Spiral Frog, and all that. I generally buy a LOT of used CDs (wonder why the RIAA doesn't get into a stink about that? The artists don't get royalties, AFAIK, and if both a used and a new version are available, guess which one I go for?) and then rip them using SonicStage.

Speaking of which, I've been using SonicStage since version 2.5. I'm now using version 3.4 and I haven't had a single problem with it in the (almost) year I've used it. wwwDoesn't crash, doesn't hog the system, extracts/rips to ATRAC 3+ quickly, and has a great backup tool.

It may not look as pretty as iTunes, but it (because of ATRAC) for years has supported two of the key 'new' features of the new iPods that Mac fanatics have been praising: 1) gapless and 2) instant search (Sony's is called, I think, initial search).

I think most people had trouble with SS (and some still do) because of the other crap on their machines. For instance, it's known to not play well with those fancy shell interfaces that make your XP box look like Vista.

Even more intriguing is that my three-year-old minidisc player has a longer battery life than the new generation iPods. Not nearly the space, mind you. I'm a huge Sony Fanboy, admittedly, but the more I think about it I'm more of an MD- or ATRAC-fanboy. :)

It looks fairly thick too:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/zune/images/image021_low.jpg

Even more intriguing is that my three-year-old minidisc player has a longer battery life than the new generation iPods. Not nearly the space, mind you. I'm a huge Sony Fanboy, admittedly, but the more I think about it I'm more of an MD- or ATRAC-fanboy. :)

Yeah, battery life always was amazing. I had a JVC player that had 60 hours battery life in it, and that with all those moving parts... amazing...

If only Sony had made the right choices and improved their software AND made a decent PC based MD player/recorder drive it may have been more of a success. FWIW; I recently sold my last MD player on Ebay, I put it up, and 5 minutes later someone did a BIN on it, so there is still plenty of demand for them :D
I use an MD recorder for doing video. It's cheaper than DAT, has almost the same sound quality and, when used with my MD player with optical out, does direct digital transfers to my PC for optimum sound. I know a lot of videographers that use them for weddings -- they'll attach a lav mike to the MD recorder, put it in the groom or minister's pocket, and get great sound that is easy to sync to video.

Yeah, battery life always was amazing. I had a JVC player that had 60 hours battery life in it, and that with all those moving parts... amazing...

60 hours! Jeepers... that's outstanding.

I wonder why the Zune won't support the WM "Plays for Sure" DRM?

Duplicate post sorry, Mods please feel free to delete.

Is it just me or does this thing look more like a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat than anything else??? The wheel isn't.. it's just a directional control, no? IMO the WiFi is WiWorthless... swapping a song that can only do three plays for three days (or is it three plays per day for three days?) Woo... (insert sound of noisemaker here). Sorry, for everything they could've done this device is pathetic. Obviously, don't count MS out. Like everything else (remember IE V1 and 2?) they'll get it right eventually. Apple ain't Netscape though... they'll continue to innovate.
I agree with everything you've said and I can't see why they didn't do more with it for all the Redmond talent they must have. I can see this becoming less of a dead duck if someone manages to hack the DRM on this 3 day/play. Then you can share, possibly unwittingly (it is Wifi after all) your legally bought tracks with everyone, at which point there might be sudden interest from a few people (including the RIAA). Microsoft recently caused at least one business I know of, to suspend part of their service thanks to their DRM being hacked (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2355994,00.html) .

According to some gadget sites it'll be priced at $229. That alone may help it become a success...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/microsoft-launches-the-zune/

Besdies the terrible name I really don't see this going anywhere. Design is "ok", the big feature they are gambling on is WiFi, I just don't see myself sharing tracks with people I know/don't know.

Plus; by the time this hits the shelves Apple will/may hopefully have a true video ipod device ready that'll kick Zunes backside.

Of course some "iPod haters" will buy it simply because it isn't an ipod, but I tried that, and you always end up with the iPod, nothing beats it.

Crap! I just ordered my 80gb ipod. What am I going to do now????

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/microsoft-launches-the-zune/

Besdies the terrible name I really don't see this going anywhere. Design is "ok", the big feature they are gambling on is WiFi, I just don't see myself sharing tracks with people I know/don't know.

Plus; by the time this hits the shelves Apple will/may hopefully have a true video ipod device ready that'll kick Zunes backside.

Of course some "iPod haters" will buy it simply because it isn't an ipod, but I tried that, and you always end up with the iPod, nothing beats it.

Quite a few things do, I for one detest itunes, and the whole idea of synching... I much prefer plugging in my Rio Carbon and having it show up as a hard drive I can just drag and drop into...

Quite a few things do, I for one detest itunes, and the whole idea of synching... I much prefer plugging in my Rio Carbon and having it show up as a hard drive I can just drag and drop into...

You don't need iTunes to use an iPod. Plenty of third party solutions exist that work just fine, including drag and drop applications.

FWIW; the synching part is the power of iTunes IMHO.

Quite a few things do, I for one detest itunes, and the whole idea of synching... I much prefer plugging in my Rio Carbon and having it show up as a hard drive I can just drag and drop into...
I don't use iTunes with my iPod. It shows up as a hard drive on my systems. I use Anapod and Musicmatch for maintaining my music collections, both on the iPod and off. I have a variety of programs that I use for moving video, including DVDs, to the iPod for viewing. About the only time I open iTunes is when I want to get the latest Ricky Gervais video pod casts.

According to some gadget sites it'll be priced at $229. That alone may help it become a success...ScottC Do you think that is selling at very close to costs or is there a significant profit at that price?

ScottC Do you think that is selling at very close to costs or is there a significant profit at that price?

I'm sure that even at that price they can make a decent profit. 30Gb drives are not very expensive anymore, and since Toshiba makes both the device and the drive (and possibly also the display and battery), I'm sure they were able to get a good price on them.

Thanks I thought they might, I wouldn't expect that MS wouldn give something away at cost or below and expect to make more money back just on the sales of tracks.

Thanks I thought they might, I wouldn't expect that MS wouldn give something away at cost or below and expect to make more money back just on the sales of tracks.

Uh? Xbox? Xbox360? :D They make a pretty big loss on those.

As far as costs go, one analyst estimates the Ipod 30GB's cost at (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2052) $130.90, not including freight, marketing, R & D, software, etc.

What is with the colors for the Zune? Brown? Who carries that shade of brown in electronic devices?

I think I'd take a Sansa over this thing. :td:

Uh? Xbox? Xbox360? :D They make a pretty big loss on those.Oops, and I knew that too.

Oops, and I knew that too.
Actually, they just announed a $100 price cut on the 360 due to lower production costs.

That was just a rumor. They haven't cut the price on the 360 yet.

I agree that in the future Wireless connectivity may add something nice, but at the current stage I just don't see it.

You were correct ScottC
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/02/zune-wireless-worthless-for-now/
You can't: Connect to the internet, Download songs directly from the Zune store via WiFi, Sync to your computer via WiFi."

:td:

You were correct ScottC
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/02/zune-wireless-worthless-for-now/


:td:

That really is pathetic. I can only hope it isn't there yet because they couldn't get it finished on time, but the ONE thing that would make this player a real winner will be missing from it when released.

Are the guys on the Zune team former Sony employees? :D

Are the guys on the Zune team former Sony employees? :D

cheap shot... but true.... :D

I'm still wondering if the Zune's wireless capability can be turned off while flying?

Does Bill Gates have his own iPod? :)

So who bought a Zune today? :D

I think Zune is on track to beating Bob and Me at the worst Microsoft product ever.

I think Zune is on track to beating Bob and Me at the worst Microsoft product ever.

That's an product I haven't heard in long time! :D

I actually like Windows Me. It's a quality product that does exactly what it says on the box since it is actually named after debilitating disease.

It took a year, but according to engadget the zune mk2 can sync via WiFi :cool:

I actually like where they are heading with the new Zunes.

Does Microsoft have an iTunes competitor?

Does Microsoft have an iTunes competitor?

They will have with the new launch. The old was wm10 based.

I actually like where they are heading with the new Zunes.

I give a big ^ to the new one. Of course I have Microsoft zealotry to begin with, but the V1 Zune wasn't enough to make me switch. As soon as my current player dies I will be getting the new Zune (provided of course that I don't get gifted one by then)

I give a big ^ to the new one. Of course I have Microsoft zealotry to begin with, but the V1 Zune wasn't enough to make me switch. As soon as my current player dies I will be getting the new Zune (provided of course that I don't get gifted one by then)

I saw the UI video today, it's stunning. I'm most certainly going to trade one of my iPods in for a Zune.