Newsstand - Ua890 9/12/06 - passenger allegedly tried to open door in flight

Haven't seen anything much yet, not even CNN, but local TV in LA report that:


Passenger Subdued After Atempting to Open Door in Midflight

A passenger who allegedly tried to open the left wing door of a United Airlines flight was subdued by passengers and air marshals Tuesday night.
United Airlines Flight 890, which was scheduled to land at 5:30pm local time at Dulles Airport, landed about 10 minutes early at a Virginia airport

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=nation_world&id=4555827

Why does it seem like there are more freaks flying now after all the tightened security? Are people more stressed out from it?

Just saw it on my local news.

There are more freaks doing this b/c they want to get their names in the news and know that anything they can get away with related to air travel will be big news :rolleyes: Thank the media and administration for the focus.

What I don't understand is that it says that UA 890 landed 10 minutes early at a Virginia airport. Dulles IS a Virginia airport -- FlightAware shows it landing at IAD a few minutes early so looks like that was the VA airport afterall.

Even with a pax trying to open the door midflight and being subdued...the real news would be a flight getting to IAD early and actually having a gate to go to and ground-crew to service it.

Um yeah... I say let 'em yank on the door all they want, it's not going to open if the plane's pressurized. :p

People are being really lame lately. I think I'm going to start carrying my parachute rig with me when I fly again. :p :p :p

Think people will look at me strange when I start putting it on when I'm sitting in an exit row? ;)

Um yeah... I say let 'em yank on the door all they want, it's not going to open if the plane's pressurized.
Stupidity is the name of the game...

Thank the media and administration for the focus.I'm up for blaming the MSM for about anything (can we say Greta Van Sustaining-it-forever?), but really, would you feel better with a low key low effort aviation security system?

I actually asked a few years back out of curiosity and was told you can't actually bringa parachuteon board. Now they would probably figure that you had certain "intentions" andknew the plane was going down....

Um yeah... I say let 'em yank on the door all they want, it's not going to open if the plane's pressurized. :p

People are being really lame lately. I think I'm going to start carrying my parachute rig with me when I fly again. :p :p :p

Think people will look at me strange when I start putting it on when I'm sitting in an exit row? ;)


:D :D :D :D :D

BTW, will the door not open if plane is pressurized, really? :confused:

People are being really lame lately. I think I'm going to start carrying my parachute rig with me when I fly again.Hmmm, well, unless the rules have changed, it is not permissable to carry any form of parachute into the cabin of an aircraft. It was whats-his-name that jumped out the back of the plane with the loot that ruined that for us. :p

Hmmm, well, unless the rules have changed, it is not permissable to carry any form of parachute into the cabin of an aircraft. It was whats-his-name that jumped out the back of the plane with the loot that ruined that for us. :p
negative ghost-rider...

http://uspa.org/membership/travel/rigs.htm#tsa

D.B. Cooper was the guy that jumped from the 727, hence the installation of the "Cooper Vane" in 727s to keep enterprising (foolish?) people from lowering the rear stairs whilst in flight.

...the real news would be a flight getting to IAD early and actually having a gate to go to and ground-crew to service it.

:D :D excellent observation, Flyin4MAG !!!

Maybe this is the best way to ensure that your flight arrives on time : hypnotize a fellow passenger and convince him to do something silly on board. Then you get a direct route, a gate and ground-staff.

I'm up for blaming the MSM for about anything (can we say Greta Van Sustaining-it-forever?), but really, would you feel better with a low key low effort aviation security system?
Are you kidding? as compared to the "show" they put on today, you betcha!! This isn't doing anything but getting people psyched at ways to beat the system. Actually with the latest idiocy, they have a hefty percentage of people doing things that are "against" the regs that actually puts you more at risk because the folks in white are looking for liquids rather than things like knives that can do actual damage.

Basically the administration blew this like so much else and it will be very difficult to ever revert to any acceptable form of 'normalcy' because they've hyped the crazies with all this nonsense and bs.

:D :D :D :D :D

BTW, will the door not open if plane is pressurized, really? :confused:

Door has to be pulled into the cabin - pressure is higher inside than outside, so that will keep the door from being opened and pulled in right away...but...

Depending on the model of aircraft and door, pulling the latch itself might yank the door out of the seal sufficiently enough to cause decompression - eventually when cabin pressure equalizes with the outside one could theoretically pull the door inside, but the negative pressure caused by the rush of air along the fuselage might contain enough force to keep the door from being pulled into the cabin.

Either way, it's extremely difficult to do what this passenger was attempting, but not impossible...then again it appears less difficult to find loony tunes flying around the country these days.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Flight_Disrupted.html
The passenger became unruly about 3 1/2 hours into the flight from Los Angeles and was subdued by other passengers and federal air marshals, said United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy.

"After the passenger was restrained, the pilot decided to land at Dulles," McCarthy said. "It wasn't an emergency landing."

I was in a deep sleep on 890 NRT-LAX today and when I saw the title of this thread I thought I must have really slept well untill I realized that it was the continuation to IAD where this happened.

What I don't understand is that it says that UA 890 landed 10 minutes early at a Virginia airport. Dulles IS a Virginia airport -- FlightAware shows it landing at IAD a few minutes early so looks like that was the VA airport afterall.

Even with a pax trying to open the door midflight and being subdued...the real news would be a flight getting to IAD early and actually having a gate to go to and ground-crew to service it.

Just stupid media errors - many probably don't even know that Dulles is a city in Virginia and that Washington Dulles International Airport isn't actually in D.C. :rolleyes:

Local news here in DC on NBC just said the passenger was arrested for becoming unruly - no mention of trying to open the door.

Does this mean only mentally stable 1K/UGS members and deadheading crew will be allowed to sit in the exit rows in the future?

Just stupid media errors - many probably don't even know that Dulles is a city in Virginia and that Washington Dulles International Airport isn't actually in D.C. :rolleyes:

Geographically you are correct, but the FAA considers both DCA and IAD to be part of DC and not VA.

...Post deleted...

Wow. . .I'm wondering if perhaps this person was on medication and couldn't take it since they couldn't bring any water on board? :p

On a more serious note, how come the air marshalls weren't on this guy immediately and it took the passengers to subdue him (per the PI newspaper link)? :confused:

Here's the article on MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14809852/).

FAs were yelling for help and they subdued him pretty quickly.

Um yeah... I say let 'em yank on the door all they want, it's not going to open if the plane's pressurized. :p

People are being really lame lately. I think I'm going to start carrying my parachute rig with me when I fly again. :p :p :p

Think people will look at me strange when I start putting it on when I'm sitting in an exit row? ;)

no, i think they'll get violent and you'll be injured.

you might be comfortable that it won't open, but you'll freak out enough people that your life will be in danger.

:D :D :D :D :D

BTW, will the door not open if plane is pressurized, really? :confused:

if the doors open inward, opening them would require great strength (or a good lever, or something to break the pressure seal around the door), since the cabin pressure would be pushing out on them and keeping them closed.

if the doors open outward, the opposite is true, but i would hope most of the big planes have systems that prevent the doors from opening when the cabin is pressurized.

but honestly, i know only a bit of physics and nothing about today's planes. i'm an MP 100k and i couldn't even tell you if the doors on united planes open out or in.

On a more serious note, how come the air marshalls weren't on this guy immediately and it took the passengers to subdue him (per the PI newspaper link)? :confused:
At least according to the CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/12/flight.disrupted.ap/index.html), the passenger was restrained by other passengers *and* air marshals.

i would guess that the air marshall was upstairs in the business cabin (where there are no door exits), and the nut was downstairs in the E cabin.

the guy is lucky there was an air marshall on board to save him from the other passengers, and that the marshall got there in time.

i would guess that the air marshall was upstairs in the business cabin (where there are no door exits), and the nut was downstairs in the E cabin.



This was an A320 from LAX-IAD, not a 747.

If the regular knee jerk reaction follows ... Watch out for FAMs to start taking your reserved exit row seats ... check those itineraries :o

Does this mean only mentally stable 1K/UGS members and deadheading crew will be allowed to sit in the exit rows in the future?

Mentally stable 1K/UGS members? :confused:



:p

i would guess that the air marshall was upstairs in the business cabin (where there are no door exits), and the nut was downstairs in the E cabin.


Even if this were a 747, there are two exits in front of row 15.

(Just remember that in the event of a water landing, the upper deck passengers should exit down the staircase and out one of the main deck doors. :D )

On a more serious note, how come the air marshalls weren't on this guy immediately and it took the passengers to subdue him (per the PI newspaper link)? :confused:

Duh! They were in the F cabin, taking away an upgrade from one of us... :rolleyes:

Although this happened on a United flight, it is more of a news item so I'm going to move this to the Newstand forum.

letiole
UA mod

Although this happened on a United flight, it is more of a news item so I'm going to move this to the Newstand forum.

letiole
UA mod

Posted already here: ;)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=601208&referrerid=16109

I wonder if the nut gets his FF miles... Is it me or do these weird things keep happening on UA flights? Wasn't the panic-attack lady also on a UA flight?

Huh? Since when does the FAA decide what state an airport is in?

Since they started publishing Airport/Facility Directories.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060913/ap_on_re_us/flight_disrupted

Wolfenberger said the man was held down and punched by other passengers as he grabbed the man's leg. Air marshals then came and took custody of the man

Hopefully some pax got some good shots to the head of this dude.. i know I'd be making some attempts at giving him the hammer right to the bean

...Post deleted...

Posted already here: ;)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=601208&referrerid=16109

And I thought I looked before I moved it. :o

Thanks. I'll ask the mods to merge the threads.

Wow. . .I'm wondering if perhaps this person was on medication and couldn't take it since they couldn't bring any water on board? :p

On a more serious note, how come the air marshalls weren't on this guy immediately and it took the passengers to subdue him (per the PI newspaper link)? :confused:
You might be on the right track. People with anxiety or panic disorders are difficult to calm down once panic sets in. According to this article, panic is a big threat to aviation. Continual warnings about dangers of flying issued on airport PA systems doesn't help. For people with extreme anxiety minor things can be amatter of life and death.

Family Doctor Fears that the FTA has Neglected the Major Threat that Makes Air Traveling a Serious Danger in America (http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20060912/bs_prweb/prweb435950)

but honestly, i know only a bit of physics and nothing about today's planes. i'm an MP 100k and i couldn't even tell you if the doors on united planes open out or in.The doors on all pressurised airliners open inward. If you look closely at how they operate you will see that they first open inward, tilt, and then swing out. D.B.Cooper was able to exit the 727 via the rear stairs because the aircraft was flying low enough that there was no pressure differential and the rear exit could therefore be opened, giving access to the stairs.

Still annoyed that air marshalls are too busy taking up First Class space. Amazing that the passengers put the situation completely in control by the time air marshalls could make it to the fracas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/12/AR2006091201919.html?sub=AR

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Since there was a thread on this topic yesterday that was moved into Newstand, I am merging the thread today in UA that begins with this post into that prior thread.

cblaisd
Moderator, United

While I am by no means a fan of the state of our FAM situation, I see nothing wrong here. How long does it take to control the situation? All of five seconds at most? There is no way the FAM could get to the rear door that fast. Besides, would you prefer him in the back so it takes him that long to get to the cockpit?

I'm not a fan of FAM program, but I dont see anything wrong either.

I'd say the general public is very capable of taking care of the situation after
9/11 and they've demonstrated that again in this situation.

(the other would be that shoe bomber thing in that flight from paris) ^

It seems like a better place for air marshalls would be exit rows IMO... ;)

Off-topic: 180 pax capacity on an A320? So much for fact-checking by the Washington Post :rolleyes:

Now wait a minute--I know this will sound a little too convenient, but the FAM's first job is to protect the cockpit, hence the need for an F seat. On a 744, the FAMs supposedly sit in C on the upper deck, again, in front of the cockpit.

Now the real question: Is it less safe to fly Ted cuz there's no F seat for the FAMs????? :)

If passengers post-9/11 have proven themselves to be capable of handling a trained boxer, do we even need FAMs in the sky?

Is it less safe to fly Ted cuz there's no F seat for the FAMs?It might be less safe because any FAM's with seniority & experience will avoid TED flights.

Still annoyed that air marshalls are too busy taking up First Class space. Amazing that the passengers put the situation completely in control by the time air marshalls could make it to the fracas.

Why can't we get the spelling of air marshal (one "l") correct? Marshall with two l's denotes a military rank, like in marshall Montgomery. Marshal with one l is an officer of the law.