Travel Technology - What do you think of the new Tivo HD unit?

I just got an email from Tivo that their new HD unit is out. Coincidentally, we have just installed a magnificent new HD TV. (Thank you kanebear for hours of help.) Should we make the jump, or is it too early for them to have worked out any bugs?

"The TiVo® Series3™ HD Digital Media Recorder is here! Welcome to High Definition Heaven...

"-Up to 32 hrs HD programming storage (300 hours in standard definition)
-Dual tuners so you can record 2 digital cable shows at once*
-World's only DVR with THX® certification maintains all the detail found in the original broadcast, both in sound and picture
-High-quality front panel display shows what's being recorded even when the TV is off
-Backlit TiVo remote (see, we hear you!), easy to configure to your TV

"..as a TiVo subscriber who currently owns a TiVo box with Product Lifetime service, we want to thank you for your loyalty with a very special offer--an exception to a rule when you buy the NEW TiVo Series3 HD box. For a limited time, transfer your Product Lifetime service from a Series1 or Series2 box to the new Series3 HD for only $199. As an added bonus, we'll keep TiVo service activated on your old box for another 12 months for no additional charge."

The box costs $800. Lifetime service is being offered for $200 thru the end of 2006. Thus, we're talking about an $1000 investment.

Might be worth staying in town to watch tv at Casa SanDiego1K. ;)

That looks like a great package. I don't think that Tivo offers a lifetime subscription anymore. I wish I had taken advantage of it when we bought our DVDR unit two years ago.

Might be worth staying in town to watch tv at Casa SanDiego1K. ;)

Drive north, rb, and bring rb Jr!

I have yet to see the new TV as I've been traveling this past week - but it is the latest and greatest 58" Samsung DLP no color wheel model, only for sale in San Diego for the past 2 weeks. Hubby has been extolling the image by email.

I'm a big TiVo fan, have had one since 2000, but the pricing is giving me pause. Currently I have a hacked and upgraded series 1 unit along with a Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR box. The 6412 costs me $5 a month, no upfront fee for the box. The TiVo would cost me $800 plus monthly service, or the $200 to transfer lifetime, plus monthly cablecard fees.

If they would enable the use of external hard drives with the 6412 then I wouldn't even be thinking about the new TiVo box. I know how much better the TiVo interface is, but frankly the 6412 is good enough in combination with the old TiVo.

As much as I'd love a nice shiny new Tivo I'm going to skip this one, I just don't get enough HD content I'd like to watch. I don't watch sports (except F1) and am not interested in most stuff on the regular HD channels.

I've got a 750 hour Dual tuner S2 tivo that suits me just fine.

we've had the DirecTV HD Tivo for a year and a 1/2 now and its amazing....really a great box. It doesnt have the tivonet stuff that the non-directv units have, but thats what bittorrent is for :)

I've found my biggest regret was getting a 4:3 HD (42" tube) TV b/c we watch nearly everything in HD. The other problem is that I dont want to watch TV while I travel b/c I miss my TV and sound system.... then i get home on Thursday and have like 5 nights of TV to watch...I blame the TiVo for this problem :D

If they would enable the use of external hard drives with the 6412 then I wouldn't even be thinking about the new TiVo box. I know how much better the TiVo interface is, but frankly the 6412 is good enough in combination with the old TiVo.

I hear this box has a external SATA port to add additonal storage, which is pretty nice, I would love to get one. I currently have Dish Network's latest HD DVR, which is pretty nice, but I still keep my TIVO series 2 around. I would get one tomorrow if it wasn't for the price. I think for me it would have to come down to somewhere in the $400 price for me to think about it.

Lots of people have been waiting for this. Did it just appear today on the tivo web site?

I will eventually get one whenever I upgrade by bedroom tv to HD. Or if I ever decide to replace the living room set and actually use it, I'd replace the cable company HD DVR in a second.

2 inputs, 2 cable cards, etc, etc.

Yes, it will replace my self-upgraded (184 hours) series 1 with lifetime service. I guess I'll move that to another room. Or maybe sell it.

Oh, they will let me transfer my old lifetime service for $200? Even better.

-David

Wish I had the direct link to the post...
However, Gizmodo.com rated this product and wasn't too happy with it.

I love the info on Gizmodo, and find the user responses very helpful.

Wish I had the direct link to the post...
However, Gizmodo.com rated this product and wasn't too happy with it.

I love the info on Gizmodo, and find the user responses very helpful.

Interesting... This Gizmodo (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/feature/tivo-series3-hd-digital-media-recorder-handson-with-video-two-cablecards-no-waitin-199936.php) article seems to be pretty positive:

We simply love it.
It's positively excellent. Thumbs up all around.

Maybe this is a different review than the one you read?

I'm game, but experience shows that if you wait, the price drops... speaking as someone who paid way too much for a series 1, and then later for a DTV HD model...

Anyone interested might want to saunter over to tivocommunity for more info.

Just read an article in the SF Chronicle that this new model is NOT going to have TIVO TO GO. That seems like a giant step backwards.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=8831

Looks like my current Tivo box is staying with me for a while.

The lack of Tivo to Go is not a technical issue, but :rolleyes: a legal issue. The CableCard standard restricts copying of content.

I'm going to have to wait as I get TV through Qwest's VDSL service. This isn't cable, so no CableCard.

Just read an article in the SF Chronicle that this new model is NOT going to have TIVO TO GO. That seems like a giant step backwards.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=8831

Strange, all the reviews I read said it WILL have TTG.

From their website:

Will the TiVoToGo™ feature and Multi-Room Viewing be available on the Series3 HD?
As always, TiVo's goal is to make all of the Emmy® award-winning TiVo service features available on all of our hardware platforms. Because TiVo worked directly with Cable Television Laboratories Inc. (CableLabs®) to enable the recording of digital standard definition and high definition channels with the TiVo Series3 HD box, this product has unique requirements, including what content can be taken off of the DVR and in what form. TiVo is working with CableLabs and our own engineering team to enable both Multi-Room Viewing and TiVoToGo functionality in a future release.

Take a pass on it unless your cable co doesn't say "Huh?" and will GUARANTEE a working install when you ask about CableCard. I'm taking a pass on this for the time being. Time Warner down here couldn't get a cable card working to save their lives. I'm apparently one of four people in the city that has one. FOUR. They stopped issuing them after that. Mine doesn't work. Never has. I'm frankly amazed TiVO released a box based upon such a problematic standard but I suppose there's not much choice. Also I imagine someone must be getting cablecard right somewhere!

OT: You got the LED model??? SUH-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!! I love DLP but the rainbows always drove me nuts. Get the thing ISF calibrated in a few months once the calibrationists have had time to learn the sets and get the most out of them. If you think the picture is good now you've seen nothing yet.

Cable companies are required to support cablecard. How else could they possibly get the unencrypted HD stream without being integrated into the cable box itself?

Oceanic TW (Hawaii) claims they support it and have for some time now.

-David

Cable companies are required to support cablecard.

Oceanic TW (Hawaii) claims they support it and have for some time now.

-David

Oh TWC here DO support it... they don't tell you these things outright. They simply say they're still working on it and if you ask for another tell you that they're 'backordered'. Kinda like the SA8300HD DVR that took 'em two years to get. ;)

I don't remember what the timetable was, but they have to support it and issue it if you ask for it. I guess you could threaten to complain to the FCC.

That Samsung LED DLP you are oggling has a cablecard slot too. :) Heck, I think even the $1200 46" model has a cable card slot. (Recent price from J&R and amazon.com .. 720p standard light engine model).

-David

S3 Review: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315892
S3 FAQ: http://www.tivolovers.com/Series3-FAQ.html
Tivo: http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR
Tivo VIP Link (transfer lifetime service to S3): http://www.tivo.com/2.0.3hdDvr.plt.asp

-David

I'm a big TiVo fan, have had one since 2000, but the pricing is giving me pause. Currently I have a hacked and upgraded series 1 unit along with a Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR box. The 6412 costs me $5 a month, no upfront fee for the box. The TiVo would cost me $800 plus monthly service, or the $200 to transfer lifetime, plus monthly cablecard fees.

If they would enable the use of external hard drives with the 6412 then I wouldn't even be thinking about the new TiVo box. I know how much better the TiVo interface is, but frankly the 6412 is good enough in combination with the old TiVo.
Can I ask what you did to your 6412? You can PM me if you'd rather not post, but I'd love to upgrade my 6412's HD.

I think the new TiVo looks very nice. Unfortuately for TiVo, many cable providers now provide DVRs that are "good enough". I'd much prefer to have TiVo's lovely software, but I don't see $1000 improvement, not to mention the futzing around with cablecard - Comcast can just barely handle their own equipment, forget about anyone else's - and the loss of PPV/OnDemand. I'd have to rent a box to get the NBA package anyway.

Is TiVo still working to get their software on Comcast's boxes? That'd be the best solution for me. I'd pay an additional $10 or $15/month for that.

Can I ask what you did to your 6412? You can PM me if you'd rather not post, but I'd love to upgrade my 6412's HD.

I think the new TiVo looks very nice. Unfortuately for TiVo, many cable providers now provide DVRs that are "good enough". I'd much prefer to have TiVo's lovely software, but I don't see $1000 improvement, not to mention the futzing around with cablecard - Comcast can just barely handle their own equipment, forget about anyone else's - and the loss of PPV/OnDemand. I'd have to rent a box to get the NBA package anyway.

Is TiVo still working to get their software on Comcast's boxes? That'd be the best solution for me. I'd pay an additional $10 or $15/month for that.

I haven't done anything to the 6412, other than swearing at it periodically. All my hacks are to the TiVo. There's not too much you can do. People have put in larger hard drives successfully, but haven't gotten the software to recognize more than 160 GB (a slight upgrade from the existing 120 GB in the unit). No one has gotten around the 160 GB constraint yet AFAIK. The new phase III boxes (with HDMI output) have an external SATA connector but Comcast hasn't activated that and no one has gotten around that either.

Word is that the TiVo software on Comcast boxes is in testing now in some areas. That will be good, as long as they provide some way to add capacity. I would even rent 2 6412s, but I think the remotes would conflict.

While I dislike intensely Microsoft's interface on my Comcast Motorola 6412 DVR, it gets the job done.

Here in SEA we have a few Comcast offices who understand CableCard and will issue them without the mandatory tech install (saving $15), but the reports say it's somewhat hit and miss.

One potential issue with the TiVo S3 is how it works (or doesn't) with digital simulcasts. Comcast has moved all of our channels to digital transmission (with analog simulcast) which has really improved picture quality. When they did that, I had to say goodbye to my Tivo S2 because the analog picture quality was too poor in comparison.

While I watch a good chunk of HD, I watch a greater chunk of SD and I'll suffer Microsoft if that is what it takes to keep the picture quality digitial.

While I am a HUGE fan of Tivo (I have 3 S2 boxes in my apartment), and have eagerly anticipated this day for a very long time...I will not be rushing out to purchase one of these boxes just yet.

I feel that the $1000 price tag (with the lifetime transfer option) is quite a bit above what I'm willing to spend on a new DVR, especially since TWC has a mediocre one, and it would take me 84 months of DVR rental to recover my $1000 investment. I really hate the SA-8300, but it gets the job done almost all of the time. There have been times where it's missed shows, and other times where it just randomly restarts, but I've gotten used to it after about 9 months of use.

But you can be sure, I would love to have my tivo back on the HD set. I really hate TWC's onscreen guide and DVR menus. Plus the lack of a decent Season Pass, a 14-day program guide, and easy searching by any number of criteria really put me off on the 8300. I also would have liked to see bi-directional support on the cable card. I use OnDemand quite frequently, and would need to retain a cable box for that, so really I'm talking about an $8.95/mo differential.

But as I said, all of the above is not enough to get me to shell out $1k right now. For the most part, even though it's not the most elegant of products, the "elephant in a ......ina dress" that is the 8300 manages to lumber through the major features.

If the price drops down to $400, I will seriously consider it, and at $200 (before the lifetime transfer option), it's a no brainer.

But I don't see that happening until at the very earliest after the holiday shopping season, and more likely well into 2007.

My opinion, once you have Tivo you can never go back.
Once you have HD, you can never go back
Once you have HD TIVO, you can never go back.

I have had the DirectV HDTIVO now for about two years and it was worth every penny. Granted, when they first came out they were 1000$. I did not PAY 1000$, but got it for about 600$ after some rebates and such. The second one cost me about 150$ after rebates, and the THIRD one cost 0$.

I love them, they make HD watching just that much more enjoyable, as anyone who has used Tivo can understand.

The downside to the new SA Tivo3, is that they are from TIVO and therefore, nobody is going to subsidize the purchase price to keep you onboard. I don't think comcast or cox is going to offer the box, at a discount to keep customers. Which is basically what D* did to get the boxes out there.

Fortunatly, D* continues to support it, and is even upgrading the units this week.

That said, I think this S3 HD TIVO WILL do TTG, we know it will do online scheduling and stuff.

Now we just have to hope for slingmedia to hopefully, come out with an HD version of the slingbox that will bring all worlds in harmony. Tivo, HD, and slingbox. Mobile bliss.!

Is there any word on how long the $199 transfer offer will last on these? I agree that $1000 plus inactivating a Series 2 is a pretty step price.

Once you have HD, you can never go back


I did :D

I had HD from Comcast for a few months and wasn't too impressed. I have a great TV (and HD projector), had eveything hooked up with DVI and HDMI and the picture was great, but there just wasn't enough content in HD for me to appreciate it. Keep in mind; I enjoy listening to 128kbps MP3's and think they sound great, so I may not be the best spokesperson for HD :D

I did :D

I had HD from Comcast for a few months and wasn't too impressed. I have a great TV (and HD projector), had eveything hooked up with DVI and HDMI and the picture was great, but there just wasn't enough content in HD for me to appreciate it. Keep in mind; I enjoy listening to 128kbps MP3's and think they sound great, so I may not be the best spokesperson for HD :D

So, you're not buying THIS box then?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582882


As for HD, I have to say I get everything I want, except for F1, in HD.

To each his own I guess, I had comcast HD, and thought it was worse than D*. And, not to mention that box that PVR box that I simply wanted to just toss out the window. Lockups, crashes, one tuner. etc.

Is there any word on how long the $199 transfer offer will last on these? I agree that $1000 plus inactivating a Series 2 is a pretty step price.

The current promotion I believe allows for purchases up to 12/31/06 with activations up to 1/31/07.

That may or may not be flexible depending on actual sales figures.

So, you're not buying THIS box then?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582882


As for HD, I have to say I get everything I want, except for F1, in HD.

To each his own I guess, I had comcast HD, and thought it was worse than D*. And, not to mention that box that PVR box that I simply wanted to just toss out the window. Lockups, crashes, one tuner. etc.
You thought Comcast had worse picture quality? I've been considering switching to DirecTV, but my understanding is that their HD PQ is much worse than cable's. That and On Demand are the main reasons I've stuck with Comcast.

I'll be waiting until the price drops.

Have a 6412 in the current abode, which does everything I need it to do, save having real HD capacity.

So it's either wait for the Tivo, wait until more people come out with better HD capture capabilities for a media PC or keep the 6412. 6412 is going to win out, because I'm lazy.

Living in the Silicon Valley, I've been fortunate enough to have spent some non-trivial quality time with the S3 in recent weeks.

Right now the S3 doesn't do Home Media at all, so if you are into encoding stuff and moving it to your tivo to watch it on TV (for example, the Casino Royale trailer), you can't.

Other than that, Comcast can indeed in at least the Silicon Valley make it work with CableCards. And it really isn't all that bad.

Personally, though, I'm not jumping to HD. The only auto racing that's in HD is NASCAR, and I tend not to watch that at home. Also, even here, Comcast only has NBC-HD, not TNT-HD, so many of the races right aren't available in HD.

Other things, like the Sopranos, Boston Legal, and House -- well, with House, at least, I don't think I WANT to watch it in HD.

My personal opinion is that soon enough units with enough storage to be practical will be available, and probably for less money. To me, recording suggestions is a major value of the Tivo, and with the current S3, if one recorded 12-15 hours of HD, there would not be a ton of space for HD stuff. I like having a lot of stuff at my fingertips.

In the end, it comes down to how much you value what IS out on HD. Me, I'll be a Luddite :)

Steve

Series 3 HD tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSVAvLPmxoc

My question is: what's stuck to her @ss? (Now you'll watch ;) )

The ability to transfer lifetime from one of my other boxes tempts me, BUT...s tempted as I am, I am just not home enough to justify this at the current price.

Most of my Tivo recordings are watched on my laptop while on the road...either shows transferred via TTG or using my Slingbox. If it was <$500, i might be tempted, but with my current travel schedule it just doesn't make sense (not that new tech toys have anything to do with making sense.... :D )

One potential issue with the TiVo S3 is how it works (or doesn't) with digital simulcasts. Comcast has moved all of our channels to digital transmission (with analog simulcast) which has really improved picture quality. When they did that, I had to say goodbye to my Tivo S2 because the analog picture quality was too poor in comparison.


Not sure exactly what you mean. Digital will be recorded in digital on the S3. On the S2, you should be able to tell it you only get the digital channel. That's what I do on my original standalone Tivo. Sure, the recording is analog, but the quality of the analog signal from the cable box is excellent, and you get to chose the quality level of the analog recording.

-David

If I understand correctly this box can only be used wih cable not satellite. Also is the lifetime option on specific equipment only? I bought lifetime when TIVO first came out and it was only valid for the unit so we kept that one until it got so slow that we finally replaced it. Have been considering the Direct TV HD Tivo unit so we can TIVO in HD. Just lazy & afraid of messing up our set-up.

kanebear -- where are you located? I'm in SAT and have had the same experience you have. No one knows what the cable card should do (some people tell me it should let me get the music channels, some tell me it shouldn't -- and mine doesn't).

Even more concerning wrt using CableCards in a HD TIVO is that I just got a letter a few days ago saying they're changing their programming to a new standard. The immediate impact is that all of the "West" feeds are about to become inaccessible via CableCard (so if you have HBO/Cinemax/Showtime, etc. you're about to lose a bunch of programming -- that we actually use, since we tend to watch the West feeds late at night a lot). Further, they said they're slowly migrating their entire system in this direction! That will leave a HD TIVO rather useless :(

This seems to me to be an underhanded ploy to force you into THEIR PVR instead of letting you opt for a 3rd party soln.

Thoughts/comments?

I bought lifetime when TIVO first came out and it was only valid for the unit so we kept that one until it got so slow that we finally replaced it.

Normally you cannot transfer Lifetime Service and they are not even selling ‘new’ lifetime service anymore, but with these new series 3s they are letting you do a Lifetime Service transfer for $199 (only until the end of the year).

What happened to your Series 1 with Lifetime service? It looks like broken ones are going for $350+ on Ebay now, due to this limited transfer offer.

The lack of Tivo to Go is not a technical issue, but :rolleyes: a legal issue. The CableCard standard restricts copying of content.

Article on exactly that in Information Week yesterday:

High Definition Throws Wrench In TiVo To Go
Because of copyright restrictions, high-definition content can be played on a monitor or TV but it can't be put onto a mobile device. (http://www.informationweek.com/hardware/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=193000541&subSection=)

If I understand correctly this box can only be used wih cable not satellite. Also is the lifetime option on specific equipment only? I bought lifetime when TIVO first came out and it was only valid for the unit so we kept that one until it got so slow that we finally replaced it. Have been considering the Direct TV HD Tivo unit so we can TIVO in HD. Just lazy & afraid of messing up our set-up.

If you are indeed one of the true original lifetime subscribers, tivo will do a one time transfer of your lifetime service to another unit for free. Call them and see if you qualify for that offer. A friend of mine is an early tivo adopter and he qualifies for it. I remember he paid over 1k for his first tivo when it came out. With this new offer at $199, he's going to use another lifetime subscription he got later to transfer to his S3 and will pay the $199 fee. He takes advantage of the limited time offer and still keeps his orignal offer.

I don't think you can transfer it to a DirecTivo, and it would be a waste of money to do that anyway.

Whatever you do, hang on to that lifetime sub. It's a valuable item, especially if it's one of the original ones. The rest of us can only do the transfer during special promotions like this one. You can do your one time free transfer anytime if you qualify.

-David

If you are indeed one of the true original lifetime subscribers, tivo will do a one time transfer of your lifetime service to another unit for free. Call them and see if you qualify for that offer.

I believe the unit had to be activated on or before January 2000. I have an old Series 1 (actually my inlaws have it now) that I activated in June 2000 – if only I had been a bit more on the ball that unit would be worth something. IIRC the Lifetime memberships were only $149 back then.

I remember he paid over 1k for his first tivo when it came out. With this new offer at $199, he's going to use another lifetime subscription he got later to transfer to his S3 and will pay the $199 fee. He takes advantage of the limited time offer and still keeps his orignal offer.

-David

So, I don't believe there was ever a true tivo that cost over 1K. The HDTIVO was 999$ when it came out, but I don't think lifetime ever was available with it. It was quickly available for less though. there were some retailers hacking the HDTIVO and putting big drives in them, which I guess could rack up the price.

I have a lifetime on my original tivo, which was 399$, and it cost 99$ to make lifetime.

kanebear -- where are you located? I'm in SAT and have had the same experience you have. No one knows what the cable card should do (some people tell me it should let me get the music channels, some tell me it shouldn't -- and mine doesn't).

Even more concerning wrt using CableCards in a HD TIVO is that I just got a letter a few days ago saying they're changing their programming to a new standard. The immediate impact is that all of the "West" feeds are about to become inaccessible via CableCard (so if you have HBO/Cinemax/Showtime, etc. you're about to lose a bunch of programming -- that we actually use, since we tend to watch the West feeds late at night a lot). Further, they said they're slowly migrating their entire system in this direction! That will leave a HD TIVO rather useless :(

This seems to me to be an underhanded ploy to force you into THEIR PVR instead of letting you opt for a 3rd party soln.

Thoughts/comments?

I've had to complain to the FCC about Time Warner previously. Looks like I have to do it again. I'm in CRP. I gotta be honest, their customer service and responsiveness have been great but you get 'em one inch off the script and they're toast. I argued for A YEAR to get a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD box with Firewire output. They said over and over that they didn't have 'em, weren't getting 'em, etc. Turns out, they were sitting in their warehouse for six months.

On the DirecTV/Cable picture quality issue... DTV is the worst at HD thus far. Dish network is better but only on some channels and not by much. ALL sat providers down-rez their programming so what should be 1920x1080 is more like 1440x1080 or 1280x1080 in actual resolution. Yes it fills up a 1920x1080 screen and the resolution outputted is that, but the missing information is simply interpolated to save bandwidth. Then, the signal is (over) compressed. DirecTV is much worse about this. Dish network still does downrezzing but on average allocates over 1Mbps more per HD channel than DTV does. That's a very big difference and as screen sizes increase becomes more and more crucial.

Still, neither is as good as cable. Comcast and Time Warner both pass through the signal as received which is about as good as it gets short of HD-DVD. Even broadcast HDTV is suspect to overcompression. Many TV channels now pack 2-4 alternate channels on their digital instead of allocating the full bandwidth to HD (which is why they were fighting so hard for digital must carry). This comes at a cost. That cost is picture quality and loss of detail. Full resolution/full bitrate HD is visually stunning on a good quality set 42" or larger. Smaller than that and it doesn't have as much of an impact but improvements can still be seen.

Not sure exactly what you mean. Digital will be recorded in digital on the S3.

In Seattle, if you have Comcast and a Moto 3412 or 6412 DVR, all of your channels - 1-900 - are transmitted in digital. There is no analog transmission.

Now, for backwards compatability, Comcast does broadcast an analog signal for channels 1-60 (or thereabouts). So the TivoS2 takes the analog signal, digitizes it, and then converts it back to analog for playback. The 3412/6412 take the raw digital signal, stores it, and then converts it to analog for playback. So with Tivo you have an A-D and D-A conversion where with the Moto box you only have D-A.

Now I'm not hip to CableCard and the TiVo3, but it sound like it too can take a native digital cable signal and store it just like the 3412/6412 can. So that's good, but the TiVo monthly fee is more then what I am paying Comcast for the Moto DVR (though the 30% premium is worth it for the guide), but I also have to shell out $800 for the box itself.

In Seattle, if you have Comcast and a Moto 3412 or 6412 DVR, all of your channels - 1-900 - are transmitted in digital. There is no analog transmission.

Now, for backwards compatability, Comcast does broadcast an analog signal for channels 1-60 (or thereabouts). So the TivoS2 takes the analog signal, digitizes it, and then converts it back to analog for playback. The 3412/6412 take the raw digital signal, stores it, and then converts it to analog for playback. So with Tivo you have an A-D and D-A conversion where with the Moto box you only have D-A.

Now I'm not hip to CableCard and the TiVo3, but it sound like it too can take a native digital cable signal and store it just like the 3412/6412 can. So that's good, but the TiVo monthly fee is more then what I am paying Comcast for the Moto DVR (though the 30% premium is worth it for the guide), but I also have to shell out $800 for the box itself.


Yeah, that's pretty much correct, except that pre-S3 tivos don't care if you use the analog or digital channel as the original source.

With Oceanic TW, we get several broadcast channels in both analog and digital form. For example, KHNL on channel 8 and KHNLDT on channel 88. I unselect the analog channels from 'channels I receive' since the digital versions provide a better picture and just have my S1 tune to the digital versions of the channels. In both cases, the S1 records the analog output of the cable box no matter what the source is. Since the digitally encoded signal even after the box does the D->A conversion is very good, I get great recordings in medium quality. For the most part, they are indistinguishable from live TV on my analog standard-definition monitor.

The choice of the cable company DVR vs the S3 is a personal preference. The S3 will record digital channels in digital format. I also have a Scientific Atlanta cable company HD DVR and it's user interface, programming model and stability sucks compared to my Tivos. I can't even unselect channels that I don't want to view from the guide data with this box.

But it's only $10 per month with no upfront fees. That's the tough part for tivo. Most people will opt for the cheaper cable company DVR, at least until Tivo wins judgements against them too like they have with Dish Network.

-David

So, I don't believe there was ever a true tivo that cost over 1K.

I double checked with my friend, but I remember it also.

He paid $1300 for his original S1 on June 30, 1999. When they debuted, they were very expensive. That was for a Philips 30 hour unit with two drives. $150 of that may have been for the lifetime sub.

I didn't buy at that price. I waited a couple of years. I remember I was living on Kauai at the time, and the programming guide data for Kauai finally showed up online, and I had to fly over to Ohahu and get mine from a Circuit City. Looks like I paid $399 for mine in April 2001.

-David

I'd pay nearly any amount to swap my horrible comcast motorola DVRs (1 HD and one not) for another Tivo (currently my HDVR2 is on D*). But D* content is worthless IMHO. That being said, aside from Survivor, Amazing Race and the network sporting events, HD seems more like a novelty to me than anything else.

Regards,

Scho

I came >< this close to buying one last night at Fry's. But then envisioned my wife killing me with a blunt object.

Right now the S3 doesn't do Home Media at all...

That is not strictly true. They have disabled recording transfers. Networking is still active and MP3 streaming (the only way I listen to my CD collection these days), podcasting, Yahoo! applications, etc., are all available. What is not available is To Go, Go Back, and Multiroom Viewing.

The new Tivo is a great concept. Whether it is ready for prime time, who knows. Only time will tell. Question is do I want to beta test it at a cost of $799 + $199 for transferred lifetime service.

It cannot handle movies on demand and pay per view movies. The CableCard version 1.0 does not allow two way communications and there is debate whether the Tivo will be able to take advantage of the two way communications being built into the soon (in our lifetimes - maybe) to be released CableCard version 2.0. Tivo says its unit will work with the 2.0 card but it has not said that it will use all of the card's features such as two way communication. Some say this would require Tivo to modify its hardware not just upgrade its software.

A set top box is a partial answer. Tivo does not support them and you can not feed a HD signal to Tivo from one. However, you could have one and direct connect it to your set if movies on demand and pay per view access was important to you. Some have suggested that if you have a box on another set, you could order movies and then scan channels on the Tivo to find and capture them.

The transfer of lifetime service offer requires that you buy from Tivo. Many have bought elsewhere where extended warranties (advisable on new hardware IMHO, particularly when lifetime service means lifetime of the product) are available and been allowed to transfer. That is a risk however so if you buy at Best Buy (there may be a web discount) be sure it can be returned without a restocking fee if Tivo refuses to allow transfer.

Best source for information on new Tivo is at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51. Tivo Community is to Tivo users as Flyertalker is to frequent flyers. See you there.