Mexico - is mexico city safe?

i dont know where else to post this. CO is the leading airline to Mexico, so i thought i'd be best here.

im considering a last minute trip to mex with my brothers for 4th of july weeked. the fares for FC are cheaper than econ to any other city anywhere.

we'd be staying at the W. it seems like a great city, but i have heard bad things about the city in terms of kidnappings and other foolishness.

we have traveld all over the world and are ok with inherent dangers associted with americans in foreign countries.

just wanted to get some first hand knowledge form CO'ers that frequent the city.

we both speak spanish well.

also, is there lots to do there. it'll be "boys night out" for four nights.

There's a Latin America forum I think. Mexico City can be dangerous if you go off wandering or use a street taxi (green & white VW Beetles). Arrange car service through the W Hotel (cheap) and you'll be fine. I absolutely love MEX.

There's a related thread on the topic here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572966).

There's a related thread on the topic here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572966).
Sums it up pretty well.

I really like visiting Mexico City, though it's been a couple of years since I've been :(

EmailKid

I second the statement on getting a car and driver from the hotel. Also, keep the following in mind:

1. At Mexico City, if you are going to convert pesos at the airport, watch your valuables carefully. Many thefts can take place at the currency exchange windows. IME, the rates are better there than in the US.

2. Go to the registered airport taxi window, last I recall, it was to the far left of international arrivals and get a voucher for the cab to take you to your hotel. DO NOT take taxi rides from the many helpers who will try to offer you a ride.

3. Do not walk alone at night anywhere, even men should follow this rule.

4. At restaurants, if you do not have your car and driver, have the restaurant call a radio taxi for you. Don't go hail a taxi on your own.

Notwithstanding all of this, Mexico City is a great place to take a weekend trip. The museums, restaurants, pyramids, the zoo all make the time worthwhile. Great people watching is available on Sunday am in the Coyoacan area and the Frieda Kaklo house is walking distance in that neighborhood.

I second the statement on getting a car and driver from the hotel. Also, keep the following in mind:

1. At Mexico City, if you are going to convert pesos at the airport, watch your valuables carefully. Many thefts can take place at the currency exchange windows. IME, the rates are better there than in the US.

Or better yet, just use an ATM. Best rates.

2. Go to the registered airport taxi window, last I recall, it was to the far left of international arrivals and get a voucher for the cab to take you to your hotel. DO NOT take taxi rides from the many helpers who will try to offer you a ride.

Right - these airport taxis are fine. DO NOT take the VW green & whites.

3. Do not walk alone at night anywhere, even men should follow this rule.

Yup.

4. At restaurants, if you do not have your car and driver, have the restaurant call a radio taxi for you. Don't go hail a taxi on your own.

Yup. Radio cabs called by restauratns are fine. But just get a car & driver from hotel. Probably only US$10-15/hour.

Notwithstanding all of this, Mexico City is a great place to take a weekend trip. The museums, restaurants, pyramids, the zoo all make the time worthwhile. Great people watching is available on Sunday am in the Coyoacan area and the Frieda Kaklo house is walking distance in that neighborhood.

Yup! Great city. ^

Did you look into CUN? If you are looking for "boys night out", its a great place. I was there for bachelor party in April and we had no problem finding the things that make bachelor parties fun. None at all.

Did you look into CUN? If you are looking for "boys night out", its a great place. I was there for bachelor party in April and we had no problem finding the things that make bachelor parties fun. None at all.

Yeah, that's fun, but different. CUN is really the same as going to any beach resort, and there's nothing culturally exciting about it.

Yeah, that's fun, but different. CUN is really the same as going to any beach resort, and there's nothing culturally exciting about it.

Agreed, but "boys night out" for 4 nights doesnt scream culture to me! ;)

Agreed, but "boys night out" for 4 nights doesnt scream culture to me! ;)Yeep - anyway, thanks to the OP for this thread. J.Edward will be in MEX in early October and I'm sure this info is going to be quite useful. :)

There are numerous kidnapings (every day) and even poor people in MEX are being kidnaped and held for USD $35.00 ransom.

A driver and bodyguard would be a good idea if you are traveling around a lot.

I would strongly suggest getting ransom insurance before you travel to MEX.

It is an extremely dangerous city and you should be very cautious.

RC

There are numerous kidnapings (every day) and even poor people in MEX are being kidnaped and held for USD $35.00 ransom.

A driver and bodyguard would be a good idea if you are traveling around a lot.

I would strongly suggest getting ransom insurance before you travel to MEX.

It is an extremely dangerous city and you should be very cautious.

RC

IMHO, this is way exaggerated.

I recall a story by a Wall Street Journal reporter a couple of years ago about how he was kidnapped and driven around to ATMs to make forced withdrawals until his account was emptied.

Didn't sound like much fun.

I recall a story by a Wall Street Journal reporter a couple of years ago about how he was kidnapped and driven around to ATMs to make forced withdrawals until his account was emptied.

Didn't sound like much fun.

Right. That's why one should get a car and driver from the hotel.

IMHO, this is way exaggerated.

I don't like to play these odds.

If you have problems, you might find it a lot harder to resolve.

The "it couldn't happen to me" philosophy is risky in a city of 30 million people.

There is a lot of crime in MEX, so be very cautious.

RC

Ransom insurance is not really necessary unless you are going around with someone who himself would be a target. The targets of kidnappings in Mexico are locals whose habits are well known. Once a person's daily habits are known, if the person is known to have some means, then the person is a potential target. Joe or Jane Average Tourist are not kidnap targets unless the do something stupid like walk alone at night or hail street cabs. IMHO, telling the average tourist to get kidnap insurance is alarmist. Their efforts are far better spent in taking basic preventive measures as described in this thread. I know a bit about this subject, a client and friend of mine was kidnapped in Mexico. He is well known, well established and for that reason he was an easy target. Frankly I am in far more danger when I go out with him than I am when I am alone.

IMHO, this is way exaggerated.

This is not exaggerated. Mexico City is a polluted crime filled toilet. If you have never been there, be ready to see something completely 3rd world. I hope you enjoy gagging smog and having your bowels scream for mercy after drinking polluted water and rotten meats.

Why in the H&LL did you choose Mexico City for a vacation for the boys??

Wish I could see your expression and you swoop in out of the clouds into the smog...get close enough to the ground to see the tin sheds and OVERWHELMING poverty and pollution.

But, hey, the chicas are pretty.

Ransom insurance is not really necessary unless you are going around with someone who himself would be a target. The targets of kidnappings in Mexico are locals whose habits are well known. Once a person's daily habits are known, if the person is known to have some means, then the person is a potential target. Joe or Jane Average Tourist are not kidnap targets unless the do something stupid like walk alone at night or hail street cabs. IMHO, telling the average tourist to get kidnap insurance is alarmist. Their efforts are far better spent in taking basic preventive measures as described in this thread. I know a bit about this subject, a client and friend of mine was kidnapped in Mexico. He is well known, well established and for that reason he was an easy target. Frankly I am in far more danger when I go out with him than I am when I am alone.

In any event, wouldn't K & R insurance be so expensive that it would defeat the purpose of an impromptu, relatively low-priced Z fare-style trip to MEX? If the insurance cost like $300 a person, it might be worth it; if not, the OP would be better off not going unless he was willing to take the risk of being kidnapped while uninsured.

In any event, wouldn't K & R insurance be so expensive that it would defeat the purpose of an impromptu, relatively low-priced Z fare-style trip to MEX? If it's like $300 a person, it might be worth it; if not, the OP would be better off not going unless he was willing to take the risk of being kidnapped while uninsured.

You guys are blowing this WAAAAAAAAAAAAy out of proportion. Kidnappings are very planned and structured things. Some random tourist isn't generally kidnapped. It happens to locals and expats that live there, whose lives are watched an monitored.

This is not exaggerated. Mexico City is a polluted crime filled toilet. If you have never been there, be ready to see something completely 3rd world. I hope you enjoy gagging smog and having your bowels scream for mercy after drinking polluted water and rotten meats.

Why in the H&LL did you choose Mexico City for a vacation for the boys??

Wish I could see your expression and you swoop in out of the clouds into the smog...get close enough to the ground to see the tin sheds and OVERWHELMING poverty and pollution.

But, hey, the chicas are pretty.

As someone that considers Mexico a second home, I find your comments inappropriate and insulting.

As someone that considers Mexico a second home, I find your comments inappropriate and insulting.

Great. Let it be insulting and inappropriate. I guess I'm less interested in saving your feelings than I am preventing this poor soul from getting shot in the head for $20.

He asked a question, he gets an honest answer. Especially about his personal safety regarding one of the most crime ridden cities in the world.

I wouldn't recommend walking around the ghettos of Detroit also, if that makes you feel better about it.

Great. Let it be insulting and inappropriate. I guess I'm less interested in saving your feelings than I am preventing this poor soul from getting shot in the head for $20.

He asked a question, he gets an honest answer. Especially about his personal safety regarding one of the most crime ridden cities in the world.

I wouldn't recommend walking around the ghettos of Detroit also, if that makes you feel better about it.

Like Detroit, MEX is perfectly safe if you take the precautions recommended in this thread. :rolleyes:

Like Detroit, MEX is perfectly safe if you take the precautions recommended in this thread. :rolleyes:

Hey, why take my word and experience on it.

This is straight from the US State Department website.

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to the high crime rate. Travelers should always leave valuables and irreplaceable items in a safe place, or not bring them. All visitors are encouraged to make use of hotel safes when available, avoid wearing obviously expensive jewelry or designer clothing, and carry only the cash or credit cards that will be needed on each outing. There are a significant number of pick-pocketing incidents, purse snatchings and hotel-room thefts. Public transportation is a particularly popular place for pickpockets. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report the incident to the nearest police headquarters and to the nearest U.S. consular office.

Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Acapulco, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron.

U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to withdraw money from their accounts using their ATM cards.

A number of Americans have been arrested for passing on counterfeit currency they had earlier received in change. If you receive what you believe to be a counterfeit bank note, bring it to the attention of Mexican law enforcement.Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called "express" kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also middle class persons. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.

Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico; travelers should exercise extreme caution at all times, avoid traveling at night, and may wish to use toll (“cuota”) roads rather than the less secure “free” (“libre”) roads whenever possible. In addition, U.S. citizens should not hitchhike with, or accept rides from or offer rides to, strangers anywhere in Mexico. Tourists should not hike alone in backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly-frequented beaches, ruins or trails.

All bus travel should be during daylight hours and on first-class conveyances. Although there have been several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on toll roads, buses on toll roads have a markedly lower rate of incidents than buses (second and third class) that travel the less secure "free" highways. The Embassy advises caution when traveling by bus from Acapulco toward Ixtapa or Huatulco. Although the police have made some progress in bringing this problem under control, armed robberies of entire busloads of passengers still occur.

In some instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials. Mexican authorities have cooperated in investigating such cases, but one must have the officer's name, badge number, and patrol car number to pursue a complaint effectively. Please note this information if you ever have a problem with police or other officials. In addition, tourists should be wary of persons representing themselves as police officers or other officials. When in doubt, ask for identification. Be aware that offering a bribe to a public official to avoid a ticket or other penalty is a crime in Mexico.

It is increasingly common for extortionists to call prospective victims on the telephone, often posing as police officers, and demand payments in return for the release of an arrested family member, or to forestall a kidnapping. Prison inmates using smuggled cellular phones often place these calls. Persons receiving such calls should be extremely skeptical since most such demands or threats are baseless, and should contact the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. consulate, or the Department of State for assistance.

Hey, why take my word and experience on it.

This is straight from the US State Department website.

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to the high crime rate. Travelers should always leave valuables and irreplaceable items in a safe place, or not bring them. All visitors are encouraged to make use of hotel safes when available, avoid wearing obviously expensive jewelry or designer clothing, and carry only the cash or credit cards that will be needed on each outing. There are a significant number of pick-pocketing incidents, purse snatchings and hotel-room thefts. Public transportation is a particularly popular place for pickpockets. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report the incident to the nearest police headquarters and to the nearest U.S. consular office.

Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Acapulco, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron.

U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to withdraw money from their accounts using their ATM cards.

A number of Americans have been arrested for passing on counterfeit currency they had earlier received in change. If you receive what you believe to be a counterfeit bank note, bring it to the attention of Mexican law enforcement.Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called "express" kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also middle class persons. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.

Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico; travelers should exercise extreme caution at all times, avoid traveling at night, and may wish to use toll (“cuota”) roads rather than the less secure “free” (“libre”) roads whenever possible. In addition, U.S. citizens should not hitchhike with, or accept rides from or offer rides to, strangers anywhere in Mexico. Tourists should not hike alone in backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly-frequented beaches, ruins or trails.

All bus travel should be during daylight hours and on first-class conveyances. Although there have been several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on toll roads, buses on toll roads have a markedly lower rate of incidents than buses (second and third class) that travel the less secure "free" highways. The Embassy advises caution when traveling by bus from Acapulco toward Ixtapa or Huatulco. Although the police have made some progress in bringing this problem under control, armed robberies of entire busloads of passengers still occur.

In some instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials. Mexican authorities have cooperated in investigating such cases, but one must have the officer's name, badge number, and patrol car number to pursue a complaint effectively. Please note this information if you ever have a problem with police or other officials. In addition, tourists should be wary of persons representing themselves as police officers or other officials. When in doubt, ask for identification. Be aware that offering a bribe to a public official to avoid a ticket or other penalty is a crime in Mexico.

It is increasingly common for extortionists to call prospective victims on the telephone, often posing as police officers, and demand payments in return for the release of an arrested family member, or to forestall a kidnapping. Prison inmates using smuggled cellular phones often place these calls. Persons receiving such calls should be extremely skeptical since most such demands or threats are baseless, and should contact the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. consulate, or the Department of State for assistance.

A lot of the same things can be said about the bad areas of US cities. Staying at the beautiful Four Seasons or W, having a private driver and car, going to dinner in Polanco, going to museums, etc, nothing bad is going to happen.

Forget Mexico and just go to East LA. Same atmosphere but you can use the US Dollar and don't have to clear customs. :D

A lot of the same things can be said about the bad areas of US cities. Staying at the beautiful Four Seasons or W, having a private driver and car, going to dinner in Polanco, going to museums, etc, nothing bad is going to happen.

You are in denial and trying to paint a rosy scenario.

What you are REALLY saying is to for this guy to have the most artificial 'Mexico City Experience' possible by staying away from the locals and pricing his way away from the 'common' citizens there. Essentially, isolate himself away from the 20,000,000 people there that don't have money. Nice.

I've never had to even think about a body guard, private car, being kidnapped, or anything even close to that anywhere in the US.

To compare Mexico City to ANY city in the US is simply ridiculous. Perhaps hard to accept for you, but completely not comparable. Period.

The guy should be ultra-careful and NOT think of it as a dirty Las Vegas. If he and his boys get messed up on booze and lose their wits the consequences in Mexico City can be severe. Period.

Forget Mexico and just go to East LA. Same atmosphere but you can use the US Dollar and don't have to clear customs. :D

And you won't have to pop pills and sit on the toilet for 4 days trying to get bacteria out of your system.

I mean...Mexico City...jesus. Talk about not making my list of places to go for 'fun'.

And you won't have to pop pills and sit on the toilet for 4 days trying to get bacteria out of your system.

I mean...Mexico City...jesus. Talk about not making my list of places to go for 'fun'.

Wow. You really seem to have some issues with the place. As far as getting sick, just drink bottled watter. I recommend that to travelers traveling in any foreign country.

If you open your mind a bit, MEX can be a lot of fun.

Wow. You really seem to have some issues with the place. As far as getting sick, just drink bottled watter. I recommend that to travelers traveling in any foreign country.

If you open your mind a bit, MEX can be a lot of fun.

I don't have 'issues' with Mexico City. I'm just being honest with the OP who asked the question. Telling an already naive person to go there with a bunch of other guys looking to get boozed up and not worry is just flat crazy.

I've been there several times and Toluca (worse).

I was shocked at how bad it was and I've been to some other really impoverished places on the planet. Mexico City is only second to a few cities I've been to in mainland China (for pollution) and probably the worst for an overwhelming feeling of not being safe. I'd probably give a tie to Sao Paulo but they are both bad.

I don't know anyone that would go to Mexico City for fun. Go to one of the 'Americanized' (<---read artificial for Yankees/Europeans) like Cancun or Cozumel or whatever if you want to have a good and relatively safe time.

BTW, I've never had to worry about drinking bottled water anywhere in the US either. That should generally tell you something about a place.

This is not exaggerated. Mexico City is a polluted crime filled toilet.

I take it you don't like chilangos ;)

I take it you don't like chilangos ;)

I said the chicas were pretty didn't I?

I stay in Polanco at the InterContinental when I go there. Of course, that area is rich and the people are just snooty like they are in any rich part of any big city. Maybe a little more so there. I'm talking about the RICH people there. Not the poor hombre that drove me around 24 hours a day in a huge suburban for peanuts or the bell hops that drive back to the slums at the end of their shift.

That city (and country) seems overly rife with rich people controlling everything and not sharing a dime with what basically amounts to peasants by US standards. Corruption seems to be completely out-of-countrol.

Did they cater to me because I was an American? Yea, I suppose so because I was spending significant amounts of money.

The question was if or if not Mexico City is a fun and SAFE place to go party.

I would say no, obviously.

Walk in the wrong places at the wrong time in LA, Miami, New York or New Orleans and you will get robbed. Flash money in Mexico City, walk around like you don't have a clue what you are doing in the wrong places and you are asking for trouble. What I don't put much stock in are the alarmist warnings on the Consular Information Sheets. These sheets have a not-too-well hidden political agenda. What you cannot do in Mexico are some things that you might do in a large city in the US, like hail a street taxi or leave valuables unattended in airports. (In this TSA era, you can't do that here either.) Mexico City has great restaurants, museums, parks, archealogical sites and other attractions. Many of the objections that are raised in this thread can be also stated about most major third world cities, the cities have substantial poor areas and if you are careless, you can be a victim of crime. Geez, there are even kidnappings in places such as Mendoza, Argentina, but they don't target tourists unless you advertise your wealth.

I have seen passengers at International Arrivals in Mexico City who immediately flash a money clip and head off to the exchange window with lots of luggage. They don't pay attention to what they are doing as if they were at the ATM line at Smallsville back home. They might as well have a sign on their foreheads that says "Robame". I have friends who were crime victims in MEX, they called me at my hotel for help, but it was no surprise what happened to them. They were stupid enough to board a street cab on Insurgentes Sur at 12:30 am. They were robbed at gunpoint and she was threatened with sexual assault. She is Mexican to boot, and she admitted their abject stupidity in taking a street taxi at that hour (or at any hour.) Bottom line to all travel, if you are stupid, you set yourself up to be a crime victim. All of the third world is less forgiving of such stupidity, because law enforcement is far below US standards and the countries have pervasive poverty. If you expect US security standards, visit small towns in the US or Canada. The third world is not Mayberry.

FWIW, it seems that if all the OP wants to do is stay in the nice areas of the city and visit the major tourist spots for three days, he will be fine unless he strays from the safe practices outlined in this thread (taking street cabs, walking around at night, etc.). Perhaps the best plan would be to hire a driver during the day and go to museums and any other sights during daylight hours. Then during the evenings, they could head back to the upscale hotel area, grab dinner at a nice restaurant, then finish up in one of the hotel bars - this would alleviate concern about drunken vulnerability in the streets, etc. That general plan probably would be safe.

As far as I am concerned, I drink bottled anytime I leave NYC much less the continental US...

Walk in the wrong places at the wrong time in LA, Miami, New York or New Orleans and you will get robbed. Flash money in Mexico City, walk around like you don't have a clue what you are doing in the wrong places and you are asking for trouble. What I don't put much stock in are the alarmist warnings on the Consular Information Sheets. These sheets have a not-too-well hidden political agenda. What you cannot do in Mexico are some things that you might do in a large city in the US, like hail a street taxi or leave valuables unattended in airports. (In this TSA era, you can't do that here either.) Mexico City has great restaurants, museums, parks, archealogical sites and other attractions. Many of the objections that are raised in this thread can be also stated about most major third world cities, the cities have substantial poor areas and if you are careless, you can be a victim of crime. Geez, there are even kidnappings in places such as Mendoza, Argentina, but they don't target tourists unless you advertise your wealth.

I have seen passengers at International Arrivals in Mexico City who immediately flash a money clip and head off to the exchange window with lots of luggage. They don't pay attention to what they are doing as if they were at the ATM line at Smallsville back home. They might as well have a sign on their foreheads that says "Robame". I have friends who were crime victims in MEX, they called me at my hotel for help, but it was no surprise what happened to them. They were stupid enough to board a street cab on Insurgentes Sur at 12:30 am. They were robbed at gunpoint and she was threatened with sexual assault. She is Mexican to boot, and she admitted their abject stupidity in taking a street taxi at that hour (or at any hour.) Bottom line to all travel, if you are stupid, you set yourself up to be a crime victim. All of the third world is less forgiving of such stupidity, because law enforcement is far below US standards and the countries have pervasive poverty. If you expect US security standards, visit small towns in the US or Canada. The third world is not Mayberry.

That was my point. It is third world and NOT to be underestimated as if you are in the US/Western Europe/Canada.

I don't know of any political agendas of the US Consular except to provide information to US citizens for their own protection and awareness. It's a
'better safe than sorry' approach, of course.

The only reason I give warning is because it's supposed to be a wild 'guys weekend'. In my mind that involves drunk horseplay, chasing skirts, and everything else guys do when out on a warrior's weekend. THAT, I think can be a recipe for accidents. I doubt they are wanting to go to museums and such.

Hey, just my thoughts/opinion.

As far as I am concerned, I drink bottled anytime I leave NYC much less the continental US...

???? NYC has the safest water in the US? :confused:

???? NYC has the safest water in the US? :confused:

Nope, just the best tasting tap water. Serioulsy, NYC has the best tap water around ^

(And I am with you MEX is a sh*thole)

Walk in the wrong places at the wrong time in LA, Miami, New York or New Orleans and you will get robbed. Flash money in Mexico City, walk around like you don't have a clue what you are doing in the wrong places and you are asking for trouble. What I don't put much stock in are the alarmist warnings on the Consular Information Sheets. These sheets have a not-too-well hidden political agenda. What you cannot do in Mexico are some things that you might do in a large city in the US, like hail a street taxi or leave valuables unattended in airports. (In this TSA era, you can't do that here either.) Mexico City has great restaurants, museums, parks, archealogical sites and other attractions. Many of the objections that are raised in this thread can be also stated about most major third world cities, the cities have substantial poor areas and if you are careless, you can be a victim of crime. Geez, there are even kidnappings in places such as Mendoza, Argentina, but they don't target tourists unless you advertise your wealth.

I have seen passengers at International Arrivals in Mexico City who immediately flash a money clip and head off to the exchange window with lots of luggage. They don't pay attention to what they are doing as if they were at the ATM line at Smallsville back home. They might as well have a sign on their foreheads that says "Robame". I have friends who were crime victims in MEX, they called me at my hotel for help, but it was no surprise what happened to them. They were stupid enough to board a street cab on Insurgentes Sur at 12:30 am. They were robbed at gunpoint and she was threatened with sexual assault. She is Mexican to boot, and she admitted their abject stupidity in taking a street taxi at that hour (or at any hour.) Bottom line to all travel, if you are stupid, you set yourself up to be a crime victim. All of the third world is less forgiving of such stupidity, because law enforcement is far below US standards and the countries have pervasive poverty. If you expect US security standards, visit small towns in the US or Canada. The third world is not Mayberry.

^

We spent a substantial portion of our holiday budget on tourist taxis. This was mostly arranged by the hotel, and at times by an eager bellhop. Roughly, we spent 2x-3x on taxis than on meals. No, make that 4x. The one time we asked a cop to help us locate a cab, he flagged down a passing Nissan. It was when we got on that we realized how overpriced our hotel arranged cabs were compared to the "sitio" taxis. But with a little baby in our hands, better safe than sorry.

Mexico City is one of the most vibrant and artistic places in the world I've ever seen. There is art and culture wherever you look - even in the poorest of poor migrant basket weavers. We would return in a heartbeat. Hell, we would move there if I could find a relevant job.

its not like my trip is going to be a nutty vegas style "boys night out" type trip. we all came up with some free time last minute, and flights are either full or skyhigh. we are flying on Z fares for $600 and staying the nicest part of the city. i think it should be a cool trip. we all speak spanish fine.

my brother's and i have travelled the world. ive been to rio and morroco and barcelona, and returned home unscathed.

rio's safety concerns made like you couldnt where a damn watch. i felt more endangered in barcelona than i have anywhere else in the world.

well, actually, i will never visit morocco again.

we're staying at the W and plan on using their concierge for recommended trips, bars and restaurants.

i think well be fine.

its not like my trip is going to be a nutty vegas style "boys night out" type trip. we all came up with some free time last minute, and flights are either full or skyhigh. we are flying on Z fares for $600 and staying the nicest part of the city. i think it should be a cool trip. we all speak spanish fine.

my brother's and i have travelled the world. ive been to rio and morroco and barcelona, and returned home unscathed.

rio's safety concerns made like you couldnt where a damn watch. i felt more endangered in barcelona than i have anywhere else in the world.

well, actually, i will never visit morocco again.

we're staying at the W and plan on using their concierge for recommended trips, bars and restaurants.

i think well be fine.

You will be fine and will have a great time. Enjoy! ^

its not like my trip is going to be a nutty vegas style "boys night out" type trip. we all came up with some free time last minute, and flights are either full or skyhigh. we are flying on Z fares for $600 and staying the nicest part of the city. i think it should be a cool trip. we all speak spanish fine.

my brother's and i have travelled the world. ive been to rio and morroco and barcelona, and returned home unscathed.

rio's safety concerns made like you couldnt where a damn watch. i felt more endangered in barcelona than i have anywhere else in the world.

well, actually, i will never visit morocco again.

we're staying at the W and plan on using their concierge for recommended trips, bars and restaurants.

i think well be fine.
^

Some people think that the Mexico pavillion at EPCOT center is quite dangerous, especially at night ;)

its not like my trip is going to be a nutty vegas style "boys night out" type trip. we all came up with some free time last minute, and flights are either full or skyhigh. we are flying on Z fares for $600 and staying the nicest part of the city. i think it should be a cool trip. we all speak spanish fine.

my brother's and i have travelled the world. ive been to rio and morroco and barcelona, and returned home unscathed.

rio's safety concerns made like you couldnt where a damn watch. i felt more endangered in barcelona than i have anywhere else in the world.

well, actually, i will never visit morocco again.

we're staying at the W and plan on using their concierge for recommended trips, bars and restaurants.

i think well be fine.

You felt more in danger in Barcelona than Rio... :confused: :confused: You'd probably feel safe running around with a $100 bill taped to your forehead in the slums of Sao Paulo then also. I don't get that one. Barcelona is far-and-away nicer than Rio.

I think maybe you are staying in resorts rather than exploring the cities.

I've never been to Morocco....don't know why I would ever go either though.

Whatever. If you think Mexico City is 'nice' then I seriously doubt your ability to honestly judge what 'nice' is.

But, like I said, whatever.

its not like my trip is going to be a nutty vegas style "boys night out" type trip. we all came up with some free time last minute, and flights are either full or skyhigh. we are flying on Z fares for $600 and staying the nicest part of the city. i think it should be a cool trip. we all speak spanish fine.

my brother's and i have travelled the world. ive been to rio and morroco and barcelona, and returned home unscathed.

rio's safety concerns made like you couldnt where a damn watch. i felt more endangered in barcelona than i have anywhere else in the world.

well, actually, i will never visit morocco again.

we're staying at the W and plan on using their concierge for recommended trips, bars and restaurants.

i think well be fine.

LOL, glad to see you made it back from Barcellona safe and sound!

Mexico City has a some pretty neat stuff to offer from great museums to nice restaurants and the like.

You will have a great time,
Dan

Nope, just the best tasting tap water. Serioulsy, NYC has the best tap water around ^

He's right -- and that's coming from someone who grew up in suburban Connecticut. I don't know how they do it!

You felt more in danger in Barcelona than Rio... :confused: :confused: You'd probably feel safe running around with a $100 bill taped to your forehead in the slums of Sao Paulo then also. I don't get that one. Barcelona is far-and-away nicer than Rio.

I think maybe you are staying in resorts rather than exploring the cities.

I've never been to Morocco....don't know why I would ever go either though.

Whatever. If you think Mexico City is 'nice' then I seriously doubt your ability to honestly judge what 'nice' is.

But, like I said, whatever.

with comments like the above, your ignorance to the rest of the world shows more and more. out of all the comments on the two nearly identical threads running now, regrading MEX safety, you are the only one with such biased views.

however your input is appreciated and i will update you upon my return.

with comments like the above, your ignorance to the rest of the world shows more and more. out of all the comments on the two nearly identical threads running now, regrading MEX safety, you are the only one with such biased views.

however your input is appreciated and i will update you upon my return.

I guess some people would prefer to never the leave the comfort of their home country... :(

Enjoy MEX (I do hope you're going), and let us know what you did so that others may benefit from your input about this great city. ^

You will have a great time in MEX. It is truly an amazing city with great restaurants and museums. You just have to be very aware of your surroundings. Like the typical carrying your wallet in your front pocket and don't wear any flashy jewelry or watches on the streets. I definitely believe it's worth the risk! ^

Pretty funny to read this today as I am sitting in the Intercontinental in Polanco looking out over Chapultepec Park. This is my fourth time here in 1 1/2 years and I must say that it indeed is a very dangerous place. You have to consider the fact that you are always being watched and if you give the opportunity you will definitely have problems.

There is just an edge about this place that makes it uncomfortable for me and I grew up on the lower east side of NYC and can get by in Spanish to boot.

Of course as many people have mentioned if you stay local and don't go too much off of the beaten path you should be cool but I would be concerned about your nocturnal activities and being extra careful after partying.

Have a safe trip.

Pretty funny to read this today as I am sitting in the Intercontinental in Polanco looking out over Chapultepec Park. This is my fourth time here in 1 1/2 years and I must say that it indeed is a very dangerous place. You have to consider the fact that you are always being watched and if you give the opportunity you will definitely have problems.


Could you elaborate a bit on the fact that you're always being watched? Do you mean by general street criminals or by some sort of professional stalkers.

Could you elaborate a bit on the fact that you're always being watched? Do you mean by general street criminals or by some sort of professional stalkers.

Good question - general street criminals are the ones that are not entirely difficult to spot - it's the pros who you don't see until it's too late that are my main concern.

I'd say as a tourist or as a non-mexican seeing the sights or enjoying a night out in Mexico City you have been laid eyes on by probably both.

You've just got to be careful.

I've been there about 20 times and my record is (2) $20 shakedowns, (1) $50 shakedown and one $100 fee to buy my clothes back for getting nasty with a Federales. So, I'd say you have 4 chances in 5 of being left alone

I've been there about 20 times and my record is (2) $20 shakedowns, (1) $50 shakedown and one $100 fee to buy my clothes back for getting nasty with a Federales. So, I'd say you have 4 chances in 5 of being left alone

Were these shakedowns all by police/Federales or by street thugs? Just curious.

I have to say that during my travels, one criterion I have used to judge whether the risks of visiting a foreign country outweigh the benefits is the quality of law enforcement. My general belief is that if a country's law enforcement officials are notorious for extorting tourists (Russia, Mexico, and Nigeria come to mind), it is not worth going to for pleasure. That doesn't mean I haven't visited such places, but it says a lot about a place when even government officials openly extort foreigners.

Were these shakedowns all by police/Federales or by street thugs? Just curious

They were Federales in their uniforms with automatic weapons, who need spending money. And also living near Tijuana, so I've learned it's best to just pay them off. I never have a ATM card on me on never more than $20-$50 in my wallet when down there

Those shakedowns are not limited to MEX. They even occur in uber-tourist destinations like CUN. I was there for a bachelor party in April with a group of about 10 guys and at least 5 of us were "shaken down" over the course of the weekend. One time we were standing outside of a club and one of the security guards came over to me and grabbed me on the arm and accused me of urinating on the street. I was standing with at least 6 other people and he just randomly walked up to me, grabbed my arm and started jabbering away on the radio. He then said he saw me urinating (I clearly wasn't) and he was calling the federale to come "arrest me". He said that they would be there in 10 minutes and he could make them go away if I gave him 200 pesos. I laughed in his face. After 5 minutes or so he clearly saw that we weren't going to pay and he was surrounded by 7 dudes who were all about 7 inches taller than him. He eventually let go and moved on, lucky to still have a head attached to his body.

The locals there think they can take advantage of anyone, and the sad truth is they probably get away with it most of the time. It happened about 4 more times over the course of the weekend (another time a security guard grabbed my friend when he walked out of the bathroom and accused him of doing blow. He asked for $1000 pesos! or he was calling the police. My friend laughed in his face. The funny thing is they are all like 5 4' 130lbs). Im my opinion the locals there are a bunch of corrupt lowlife losers)

Those shakedowns are not limited to MEX. They even occur in uber-tourist destinations like CUN. I was there for a bachelor party in April with a group of about 10 guys and at least 5 of us were "shaken down" over the course of the weekend. One time we were standing outside of a club and one of the security guards came over to me and grabbed me on the arm and accused me of urinating on the street. I was standing with at least 6 other people and he just randomly walked up to me, grabbed my arm and started jabbering away on the radio. He then said he saw me urinating (I clearly wasn't) and he was calling the federale to come "arrest me". He said that they would be there in 10 minutes and he could make them go away if I gave him 200 pesos. I laughed in his face. After 5 minutes or so he clearly saw that we weren't going to pay and he was surrounded by 7 dudes who were all about 7 inches taller than him. He eventually let go and moved on, lucky to still have a head attached to his body.

The locals there think they can take advantage of anyone, and the sad truth is they probably get away with it most of the time. It happened about 4 more times over the course of the weekend (another time a security guard grabbed my friend when he walked out of the bathroom and accused him of doing blow. He asked for $1000 pesos! or he was calling the police. My friend laughed in his face. The funny thing is they are all like 5 4' 130lbs). Im my opinion the locals there are a bunch of corrupt lowlife losers)

Sorry, but I don't need this sort of hassle on my vacation.

This is interesting. Not much to add that hasn't already been covered but just wanted to add my personal perspective.

I've visited Mexico City six times over the past four years and have always had a fantastic vacation. As others have said, there's so much to see and do - great culture, musuems, sights, restaurants etc etc. I've found the people friendly and helpful.

I speak a little Spanish and whilst I certainly don't look Mexican, I make an effort not to look too much like a tourist - no expensive camera round my neck, no big fold out maps etc etc. Basically, you just need to be aware and sensible - all the major things have been well covered in some of the earlier threads.

I've walked around Zona Rosa by myself late at night and not had any problems. The subway is cheap and very efficient and again I haven't had any problems. On occasions, hailed street cabs - utterly aware of the potential risk - but that was a risk I was prepared to take. As with life, everyone has different ideas of what risks they're prepared to take. Personally I find some of the replies reactionary and some verge on xenophobic. But, as I said, everyone makes their own choices.

For a really interesting, fun weekend with some friends I think Mexico City is a fantastic choice - you'll have a great time.

^

Some people think that the Mexico pavillion at EPCOT center is quite dangerous, especially at night ;)

And some idiots think the $7 Velvetta nachos are authentic

[QUOTE=BigPoppaCO]Nope, just the best tasting tap water. Seriously, NYC has the best tap water around ^ QUOTE]

Well come to San Diego where the geniuses are debating toilet to tap water, as you sit in your 1000 foot $1M home

And some idiots think the $7 Velvetta nachos are authentic

And some idiots think nachos are authentic.

Forget Mexico and just go to East LA. Same atmosphere but you can use the US Dollar and don't have to clear customs. :D

Or just come and visit SW Phoenix. ;)

My experience is exactly like the one below. I have been there four times in the past four years, most recently with my son when he was 1 and 2y.o. We have taken the subway dozens of times and even the mini busses on occasion (but I have never hailed a street taxi). I have stayed in hotels on the Zocalo, in Polanco and by Alameda Park. No matter what, I could never blend in no matter how hard I tried (but I do try).

I have never been "shaken down" anywhere in Mexico in almost 30 visits over the past 10 years. We ate street food from dozens of outlets and had some really fantastic things but I never drink tap water (in MEX or anywhere).

Is Mexico a clean, sterile city? Absolutely not! Is there more risk than walking around Seattle? Absolutely? Do I take precautions with my personally belongings like I would in any city, yes! Although I love Mexico City I am pretty sure that some of my friends an family would hate it and describe it like IndyMan. That is his opinion and I can see how someone could have that view. Since FT is such a diverse community there will always be different opinions. I at least appreciate that Indy Man has been there, as opposed to other posters (not necessarily on this thread) that post opinions about this city but have no personal experience.

I hope the OP will share his experiences when he returns.

Have a great trip.

Keba

BTW, Scariest, most threatening place I have ever been to: Patterson, NJ



This is interesting. Not much to add that hasn't already been covered but just wanted to add my personal perspective.

I've visited Mexico City six times over the past four years and have always had a fantastic vacation. As others have said, there's so much to see and do - great culture, musuems, sights, restaurants etc etc. I've found the people friendly and helpful.

I speak a little Spanish and whilst I certainly don't look Mexican, I make an effort not to look too much like a tourist - no expensive camera round my neck, no big fold out maps etc etc. Basically, you just need to be aware and sensible - all the major things have been well covered in some of the earlier threads.

I've walked around Zona Rosa by myself late at night and not had any problems. The subway is cheap and very efficient and again I haven't had any problems. On occasions, hailed street cabs - utterly aware of the potential risk - but that was a risk I was prepared to take. As with life, everyone has different ideas of what risks they're prepared to take. Personally I find some of the replies reactionary and some verge on xenophobic. But, as I said, everyone makes their own choices.

For a really interesting, fun weekend with some friends I think Mexico City is a fantastic choice - you'll have a great time.

And some idiots think nachos are authentic.

LOL ^

Why not head over to good old Bogalusa instead for some fun!? :p

My experience is exactly like the one below. I have been there four times in the past four years, most recently with my son when he was 1 and 2y.o. We have taken the subway dozens of times and even the mini busses on occasion (but I have never hailed a street taxi). I have stayed in hotels on the Zocalo, in Polanco and by Alameda Park. No matter what, I could never blend in no matter how hard I tried (but I do try).

I have never been "shaken down" anywhere in Mexico in almost 30 visits over the past 10 years. We ate street food from dozens of outlets and had some really fantastic things but I never drink tap water (in MEX or anywhere).

Is Mexico a clean, sterile city? Absolutely not! Is there more risk than walking around Seattle? Absolutely? Do I take precautions with my personally belongings like I would in any city, yes! Although I love Mexico City I am pretty sure that some of my friends an family would hate it and describe it like IndyMan. That is his opinion and I can see how someone could have that view. Since FT is such a diverse community there will always be different opinions. I at least appreciate that Indy Man has been there, as opposed to other posters (not necessarily on this thread) that post opinions about this city but have no personal experience.

I hope the OP will share his experiences when he returns.

Have a great trip.

Keba

BTW, Scariest, most threatening place I have ever been to: Patterson, NJ


All I am saying is that, without any question at all, Mexico City has an epidemic crime problem. It's widely known and easy to see and feel and not just by 'whitey' who is visiting from the States. Even my driver, obviously a native, purposely avoided certain areas because he didn't want trouble. He isolates me to very strict districs near the Intercontinental and is always on his guard.

It's a scary place.

Patterson, NJ isn't a bowl of cherries either. BTW, Gary, Indiana is a bit on the rough side also.

The clincher, if you will, is that the police in Mexico are a crooked as a dog's hind leg. If you do get into trouble there, you have little hope in getting any help.

Just my opinion.

i appreciate this great debate. it always enjoy starting a thread that grows to more than four pages.

with that said, i have weighed all that has been said and am going to MEX. I was going regardless of the answers. my brother and I are excited. we're flying FC and staying at the W.

i plan on visiting most sites in the day, and only doing concierge recommended activities at night. no street cabs and no metro in the evening. for partying, we will stick close to the W if not at the W's bars every night.

this is almost identical to our habbits on our last trip to rio, so i feel its a safe plan. we had a blast in rio.

ill update on the the trip with en offcial "trip report," as this thread has involved so many people and opinions. will post late july 4th or lujy 5th.

I am curious if a grey goose on the rocks is $16 like it is at any W in NYC. Let us know...

I am curious if a grey goose on the rocks is $16 like it is at any W in NYC. Let us know...

The InterContinental in Polanco is $$$$$ at the bar(s). Don't know about the W.

I am curious if a grey goose on the rocks is $16 like it is at any W in NYC. Let us know...

i will for sure. that's where we got burned in rio. it was one of the more less expensive large cities ive ever been to, but whenever we ate or drank at the sheraton (the one of the beach) we paid NYC prices.

if the dub, is indeed nyc priced i will find a local (safe) place with more resonable prices. i will let you know...

i will for sure. that's where we got burned in rio. it was one of the more less expensive large cities ive ever been to, but whenever we ate or drank at the sheraton (the one of the beach) we paid NYC prices.

if the dub, is indeed nyc priced i will find a local (safe) place with more resonable prices. i will let you know...


OK here's the deal. You and I both seem to frequent Lima and seem to have had similar views. When at the W in Polanco stop at the Restaurant Karisma which is right across the street from the Intercontinental. It is a great bar and grill, if you will. Uba is the bartender (sort of reminds me of David Gilmour) and tip him fairly and he will actually ask you when to say "when" as he fills your drinks. This guy actually remembers me and I stop in every six months or so (but I do tip well). The drinks are also very reasonable priced.

OK here's the deal. You and I both seem to frequent Lima and seem to have had similar views. When at the W in Polanco stop at the Restaurant Karisma which is right across the street from the Intercontinental. It is a great bar and grill, if you will. Uba is the bartender (sort of reminds me of David Gilmour) and tip him fairly and he will actually ask you when to say "when" as he fills your drinks. This guy actually remembers me and I stop in every six months or so (but I do tip well). The drinks are also very reasonable priced.


ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! thanks russell745. change of tone. finally!

i know MEX sucks (thanks indyman;-)). but im there.... in two days (thanks benj..nyc and others). im staying at the dub and do not want to a) pay $15 for kettleOne one the rocks and b) dont want to get robbed, raped, shot, knifed, etc. taking cabs out of polanco. where can i go, close to the dub, where we can party and still "not die" doing so? if i have to stay and party at the W, it wouldnt be the first time ive done it.

mind you we are understated ex-college baseball players who have travelled the world and both speak spanish.

at this point in the thread i want recommendations, not safety warnings.

thanks to all!

ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! thanks russell745. change of tone. finally!

i know MEX sucks (thanks indyman;-)). but im there.... in two days (thanks benj..nyc and others). im staying at the dub and do not want to a) pay $15 for kettleOne one the rocks and b) dont want to get robbed, raped, shot, knifed, etc. taking cabs out of polanco. where can i go, close to the dub, where we can party and still "not die" doing so? if i have to stay and party at the W, it wouldnt be the first time ive done it.

mind you we are understated ex-college baseball players who have travelled the world and both speak spanish.

at this point in the thread i want recommendations, not safety warnings.

thanks to all!

There is a decent bar/restaurant directly across from the Intercontinental and also a hard rock cafe just down the street. It gets loaded with gals and gets fun at night on the weekends.

That immediate area where the 4 star hotels are in polanco is clustered with Americanized places and are generally OK.

I hope your friends dont find you in a bathtub filled with ice and large scar where your liver used to be. (j/k) Good luck!

There are numerous kidnapings (every day) and even poor people in MEX are being kidnaped and held for USD $35.00 ransom.

A driver and bodyguard would be a good idea if you are traveling around a lot.

I would strongly suggest getting ransom insurance before you travel to MEX.

It is an extremely dangerous city and you should be very cautious.

RC

I would second the opinion that this is way way over the top having just returned from Mex City. It's a big bustling place with some attendant dangers, but in the main areas you'll be visiting you're fine if you take a few sensible precautions (like proper taxis, not flashing cash and not hanging around on dark streets at night). But a bodyguard?!

You'll have a great time, even more so as Spanish-speakers. Enjoy....

Those shakedowns are not limited to MEX. They even occur in uber-tourist destinations like CUN. I was there for a bachelor party in April with a group of about 10 guys and at least 5 of us were "shaken down" over the course of the weekend. One time we were standing outside of a club and one of the security guards came over to me and grabbed me on the arm and accused me of urinating on the street. I was standing with at least 6 other people and he just randomly walked up to me, grabbed my arm and started jabbering away on the radio. He then said he saw me urinating (I clearly wasn't) and he was calling the federale to come "arrest me". He said that they would be there in 10 minutes and he could make them go away if I gave him 200 pesos. I laughed in his face. After 5 minutes or so he clearly saw that we weren't going to pay and he was surrounded by 7 dudes who were all about 7 inches taller than him. He eventually let go and moved on, lucky to still have a head attached to his body.

The locals there think they can take advantage of anyone, and the sad truth is they probably get away with it most of the time. It happened about 4 more times over the course of the weekend (another time a security guard grabbed my friend when he walked out of the bathroom and accused him of doing blow. He asked for $1000 pesos! or he was calling the police. My friend laughed in his face. The funny thing is they are all like 5 4' 130lbs). Im my opinion the locals there are a bunch of corrupt lowlife losers)


Agreed, similar shakedowns to me and many of my friends in CUN.

Sadly the ones that perpetuate these shakedowns severly hurt the Mexican economy as the price is lower tourism from those who believe Mexico is a bit dangerous.

i feel terrible that i have wasted everyone's time, but i will not be going to MEX. however, i still eagerly anticipate going, so i feel this thread was not a waste.

the concierge at the W informed me yesterday (approx 30 hours before my dept. flight) that due to national elections (which i knew about), that alcohol sales in the entire country were banned from friday night to sunday night. basically three of our four nights. i cannot imagine this is true for the entire country, but he insisted. the hotel manager confimred and immediately and graciously refunded my 4 night pre-paid non refundable room. Continental however was not so gracious.

upon learning the news i immediately phoned CO to inquire about any possibilites of changing (i knew most flight were 100% booked). although we had a combo of Z, A, and Y (EXJ) fares, and were rebooked to BZE on all D, A and Y (EXJ) fares, they charged me $100 for each ticket change. rules are rules i guess. i figured CO may have been a bit more lenient being that Mexico city was basically shut down for the weekend. oh well.

I am however completely excited about my trip to san pedro in Belize.

i cannot imagine this is true for the entire country

Yes it is

During election they enact "ley seca" which restricts the commercial sale of alcohol

This is for everything, supermarkets, stores, restaurants, bars

They don't want people getting drunk during the elections.

holy crap....I'm here right now (leaving tomorrow morning though) and no cocktails tonight?!?

"Duty Free purchases of ample amounts of alcohol.....Don't Leave Home Without It" :p :D ^

holy crap....I'm here right now......

And your still alive??? :)

And your still alive??? :)
:D :D :D :D :D

....that alcohol sales in the entire country were banned from friday night to sunday night.

See, if you had read my post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573065), you would have known that like five days ago....

The state of Quintana Roo has a high level of corruption, unfortunately, and the CUN police and other municipal employees go long stretches wihtout being paid due to "budget problems," so they have learned about corruption and are prone to "help themselves." It is hardly a singular case.

Side note to those who might raise the issue: I was raised in Mexico and still have plenty of family I visit - so please, don't raise the specter of racism or cultural isolationism. :)

Agreed, similar shakedowns to me and many of my friends in CUN.

too bad on the cancellation, but I hope you get a chance to visit MEX soon.

I was just there for a 5 day weekend in early June - absolutely loved it. My wife and I (in our 30s, I'm mixed Chinese American, she's Vietnamese American) probably stood out, but we didn't carry on loudly, carry around cameras, maps, etc. We don't wear expensive clothing (jeans, t-shirt, sombreros) or wear backpacks. We speak a little Spanish and can get around. We stayed right on the Zocalo, wandered the area as late as midnight, ate street food (but no tap water or uncooked veggies), took the subway, walked the parks, etc. Loved all the marketplaces! We had NO PROBLEMS. Not only were we not directly threatened, but everybody was extremely friendly to us. It's true that you will be harassed endlessly to buy things off the street, but that's part of the fun of being in a third world country.

IMO it is reasonable to take some precautions: no street taxis, no uncooked street food, don't walk alone, stay in the touristy areas (Zocalo, Zona Rosa, Coyoacan, etc), no fancy watches/jewelry/clothing. Then go for it! MEX has too much to offer in the way of culture, food, history to completely bypass. We can't wait to go back.

This weekend (July 14 - 16,) there will be a huge demonstration by supporters of the PRD party, which is contestng the recent Presidential (and congressional) election. The main demonstration, predicted to have at least a half-million people, will be centered on the Zocalo (central square.) People who want to be part of the demonstration have begun pouring into the city as of Wednesday July 12 - this is going to be a very big one, folks. Expect traffic an dservice disruptions in the central city core, and probably on major arterials leading to it.

During last Sunday's election protest demonstration, some news crews were threatened, as were some Spanish visitors. This weekened, I suspect things will be very angry - the PRD is said at this point to have lost the election by 0.57%, and they are insistent there was massive fraud (though the EU observers and others did not see any serious fraud.)

Avoid any crowds this weekend in Mexico City. Sometimes demonstrators may be under the influence of alcohol, and the mob can get pretty worked up - this is the intent, to create a huge, newsworthy outpouring of feelings to motivate the electoral tribunal and courts to order a hand count. I can not emphasize strongly enough it is not worth the possible consequences to go to get a quick look, observe or participate in this mass event, especially so if you are American or appear it, or a national of countries who have already acknowledged the PAN candidate as winning - the UK, US, Spain in particular.

I am sincerely hoping Mr. López Obrador can keep control and hold his supporters to peaceful demonstration and that Mexico's budding democracy has matured - but Mexican politics have sometimes turned violent, with resulting deaths.

Well, I was in Mexico City (as part of a BA Tier Point run) last weekend, and luckily, the demonstrations appeared to be entirely peaceful while I was there (admittedly, I do go to a fair few protests, and am reasonably experienced at telling when things are going to get nasty). Chatted to a few people (the feelings really are running quite high), took a wander round the Zocálo area, and ended up (when it got too crowded for me) at a café, nicely situated behind some crowd control barriers, to get some excellent food while watching all that was going on.

Some photos of the protests here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stut/sets/72157594205511250/) if you're interested.

Personally, I did watch my belongings pretty closely, but did not feel at all threatened in the city. The biggest problem was running out of breath on all those steps on the metro!

Folks,

I have spent a fair bit of time over the last 6 months in Mexico City and wrote a detailed analysis of the security situation in another post (see below).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522960&page=2&pp=15

Key message:
From a safety perspective if your smart and vigilant you will have no issues. I shopped in the open markets many times in the Centro Historico, Zona Rosa, and Polanco areas of the city and had no issues. That being said I also tried to blend in, even though I'm visibly Canadian , by not wearing flashy watches, etc, not carrying a visible camera, and not flashing wads of money.

Well, I was in Mexico City (as part of a BA Tier Point run) last weekend, and luckily, the demonstrations appeared to be entirely peaceful while I was there (admittedly, I do go to a fair few protests, and am reasonably experienced at telling when things are going to get nasty). Chatted to a few people (the feelings really are running quite high), took a wander round the Zocálo area, and ended up (when it got too crowded for me) at a café, nicely situated behind some crowd control barriers, to get some excellent food while watching all that was going on.

Some photos of the protests here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/stut/sets/72157594205511250/) if you're interested.

Personally, I did watch my belongings pretty closely, but did not feel at all threatened in the city. The biggest problem was running out of breath on all those steps on the metro!

Looks like those pictures of the protests at the Alameda are taken from the Sheraton Centro Historico??? :D

Indeed they were, and a very nice hotel it was too :)

The Zocalo ones were on site (bar one, from a rather nice café behind some convenient barricades...)

Interesting thread. I'm heading down with a friend for Labor Day weekend. I'm certainly street smart and won't be out playing in the streets after dark (the W bar will work fine for me) but its good to always hear safety tips. When I travel with girlfriends (like this trip), I always err on the side of caution although I'm never stupid anywhere.

Any of the local (or sometimes local) FTers who will be around that weekend?

The tone of demonstrations in Mexico, and especially Mexico City, has become increasingly strident. Today (Sunday, July 30,) it has been reported by some as many as two million people :eek: demonstrated in the Zócalo (central square) and several streets, demanding a vote recount and declaring fraudulent elections. Additionally, many have set up tent citiies in the Zócalo and Reforma Avenue areas, where they intend to "live" until this issue is resolved to their satisfaction.

BBC: "Thousands of people are reported to have set up camp overnight in the historic Zocalo plaza and the Reforma boulevard, blocking traffic on one of the capital's main roads." and "Some of the largest camping sites are reported to be located opposite the US Embassy, the stock market and the Polanco hotel zone."

The presidential candidate they favor, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, called "AMLO" by his followers, has declared himself president :eek: and a number of his supporters are saying things like "'We will take drastic measures. We will blockade airports, we will take over embassies,' threatened Sara Zepeda, 32." According to a BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5230972.stm), "Mr Lopez Obrador on Sunday called on his adherents to paralyse Mexico City until every vote was recounted."

The PRD perspective is that the electoral judges have vew days to decide whether all the ballots will be counted - it is estimated it would take two weeks working 24/7 to count all the >48 million ballots, as the elections court has until August 31 to decide whether to require the full recount - which of course will continue to be destabilizing to Mexico's political system, as it will take considerable time (and who will do the recount, he asked?) during which time people will continue to demonstrate and possibly get more desperate, since leadership seems to be more willing to radicalize and agitate than ask for calm.

The possibilities being bandied about include the electoral court deciding to declare Felipe Calderon, the candidate who won by an estimated <0.50 of the vote, as president, which in my estimation will bring forth an outpouring and actions that will completely overshadow what has hapopened to date, or that the electoral court will appoint an interim president for 12 - 28 months, during which time there wil be another presidential election. Mexico's business interests are crying out for some kind of solution and some stabilization - every day brings more uncertainty and destabilization to the economy, but an appointed president will have to make many compromises - and quite possibly not have the power to deploy resources to control crime and drug trafficking, to reply to the issues in Oaxaca and other states, nor to deal effectively with the other branches of govenrment or foreign policy issues.

Folks, I was born and raised in that area, I have family there - even within the candidate's parties - so I am sharing personally known and regularly updated information from my sources. I have no personal stake in making people worry - I have traveled to many places with "troubles" and suggest Mexico is not inherently dangerous, but some places are well worth staying away from: any crowd in Mexico City and Oaxaca are particularly worth avoiding, and do be a bit more careful than you would otherwise be. I would also advise you of the probability of interruptions in services, traffic and much more. (In fact, I'd really recommend you postpone your Mexico City or Oaxaca trip for another time.)

I am staying currently in an hotel in the Centro Historico, a block from the Zócalo. Today I had planned to spend the day away from this area. This morning as I left my hotel at 10am large numbers of people were gathering for the political rally. The atmosphere was festive rather than threatening, family groups, people carrying video cameras etc. However, I kept out of the way, I largely skirted the large crowds on a parallel street and I lack the Spanish language skills to chat in any case. I went to a metro station and spent the day elsewhere. I returned to the area around 7pm, there were a still a few yellow flags around, lots of litter, but most of the people had left. A small crowd remained at the Zócalo. Now if you have half a million people some of them are going to be troublemakers, but this does not describe the crowd at large.

Glad you are enjoying the wonders of Mexico City, gaelflyer. Just keep your guard up a bit - we Latins are very hospitable, but we have these weaknesses of acting precipitously and wanting to have great charismatic leaders - Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala etc. and more recently Venezuela show us what these can lead to. Even AMLO has set up camp with his followers on the streets (though I am sure he is moving from camp to camp to avoid the possible hothead response: it wasn't that long ago, 1994, when PRI Secretary General José Francisco Ruiz Masseu was assassinated in Mexico, as was PRI presidential candidate Luís Donaldo Colosio Murrieta .)

Read this

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=584983

jfe, I've read it - and it points out that we travel with expectations things will be "just like home," but often they are not. Mexican law is different, and many (if not most) LEOs in Mexico are as corrupt as the day is long. In my state of origin, Morelos, one year there were 300 kidnappings - mostly driving folks around in the trunks of their cars a day or two to shake money out of their pockets and ATMs, some held for ransom. Reliable people - one of my teachers, among them - said they believed 80% of the kidnappings were perpetrated by state police.

What is left of justice seems now very tenuous in some areas - there is a leadership vacuum, the Federal government is pretty well entirely tied up in the elections issue, and the ball of twine seems to be unravelling before our very eyes. As I have said, I'd not advise anyone to travel to Mexico City, Oaxaca, as well as the internal areas of the states of Guerrero, Tabasco, Sinaloa, etc. just now.

Newspaper reports indicate Monday's commute was thoroughly disrupted into Mexico City's centre - protesters and the tent cities erected in intersections on (ten lane) Paseo de la Reforma especially blocked traffic (it is estimated by the authorities 1.5 million vehicles a day use Reforma.) Areas affected include the hotel zone, American Embassy and centre of town.

If you read Castilian / Spanish, this article (http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/365920.html) in the Mexico City newspaper El Universal is possibly a foretaste of what is to become "normal" in these abnormal times in the City.

If these folks decide to block the highways to Puebla / the airport, Toluca... even food and gasoline will be blocked into the city. So far, they have counted more on visibility downtown and trying to convince, as candidate López Obrador has told them to say, "this civil disobedience is in defense of democracy." AMLO has promised to "paralyze the city until every vote is counted." (How long would it take to sort and tally over 48 million ballots by hand, if / once the court decides to mandate that action?)

BBC Photos (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5235020.stm)

Links to major newspapers in Mexico (http://www.prensaescrita.com/newspapers/mexico.php) (almost all in Castilian / Spanish, ¡naturalmente! ;))

Newspaper reports indicate Monday's commute was thoroughly disrupted into Mexico City's centre - protesters and the tent cities erected in intersections on (ten lane) Paseo de la Reforma especially blocked traffic (it is estimated by the authorities 1.5 million vehicles a day use Reforma.) Areas affected include the hotel zone, American Embassy and centre of town.

There are tents all over the Zocalo, and all along Madero and Reforma to Chapultepec, with only a few cross routes open to traffic and big traffic jams. There are continual speeches and loud music at the Zócalo. This being the middle of the week, there is not a large crowd at these tents, with some sections having only a handful of people. Most of people around are about their regular business, rather than part of the protest. However, things are clearly building up and this is going to significantly disrupt tourism and business in Mexico. Fortunately, vehicles can still reach my hotel and I am far enough from the rally not to be affected by the noise. I am leaving tomorrow anyhow which may be good timing on my part.

JDiver, I have enjoyed Mexico and hope things will improve, as there is much to interest a tourist here.

gaelflyer, thanks for taking the time to post and keep us up on how the stoppages are affecting tourism and the City. IMO you are quite right - Mexico has a lot to offer. Presidential elections come every six years, and can be the cause of significant tensions; they are probably still worth avoiding in some areas.

Additionally, Mexico and Ireland have longstanding ties - during the Mexican -American War, American Irish were high enough in the social standings to be drafter into the army, and low enough that was a great option for many - when they were sent to Mexico to fight, many deserted and stayed, notably a number of troops form the St. Patrick's Batallion. (Three of them were caught and hanged not far from my sister's house in San Angel.) Some of them became founders of prominent Mexican families, like the O'Reillys and the O'Farrells.

Wishes for a safe trip home, and top of the mañana to ya! ;)

I've been watching and reading the US, international and local media, and everyone seems to have a different take on what is really happening here. Among my friends and family, there are two schools of thought: the first being that within the next month, Calderon will be declared President and Lopez Obrador will be quickly forgotten. The other is a more drastic one, which tends toward some of the thoughts voiced here. I never try to explain our political system to foreigners nor defend it, but I take particular offense at those who continually describe our system as "corrupt", especially Americans living under the current administration in the US. FYI: We think your system is just as corrupt than ours, even more so at the highest levels, but a lot of that is cultural. I would rather give a cop $200 pesos for a traffic violation then deal with the bureaucracy involved in handling it through the system. I guess that makes me corrupt too in a lot of people's eyes. I did go to school in the US and have worked there as well, and like most (educated and legal) Mexicans who have had the bi-cultural experience, I don't think that one system is necessarily better than the other, because they both have serious flaws. I believe they are simply different.

As for the day to day reality here, it's not the way the international press portrays it:
-The peso has gotten stronger since the election, not weaker. This indicates to me that Calderon will be declared the victor and everyone knows it. If there was uncertainty at the highest levels of business and government, the peso would be way less stable. It's business as usual for all of us.
-I recently returned from Oaxaca on vacation with some American friends. We stayed in the center of town at the Camino Real. The camps in the Zocalo and side streets were obvious, but in no way were we threatened. Quite the opposite. The atmosphere was, as someone mentioned above regarding the DF protest, more festive than anything else. The only thing that was obviously wrong was that there were significantly less tourists than usual. Not a bad thing, except for the local economy. There were almost no guests in the hotel.
-I live in a downtown neighborhood (Condesa) about a mile from Reforma and work in a suburb (Sta. Fe). My commute to work is usually about 40 minutes each way. The blockage of Reforma has added maybe 10 minutes to it. The traffic is way worse when it rains than as a result of the protests. We had a freezing hail storm last night that actually did paralyze parts of the city for hours.
-I have an American client in town who is staying at a hotel on Reforma. The only difference is that he has to walk to work, which is a few blocks away. He has no fear whatsoever. Again, business as (almost) usual.
-Tonight I am going to a favorite restaurant of mine right on Reforma. Eating out as usual.

Personally, I would like to see a vote recount, because Lopez Obrador has said he will abide by it. I don't think it is going to happen. Our electoral institute is (or was) one of the most respected institutions in Mexico and all the international observers/monitors called our election "clean". To go back and do a recount takes away from their credibility and if Calderon wins again, which I would say is a given, we will still have to live with the allegations of fraud for six years because there is no way Lopez Obrador's followers will accept it. The whole thing reminds me very much of the Bush/Gore debacle. I would say our electoral institute will do exactly with the US Supreme Court did...no recount, no new elections, Calderon wins.

As for Lopez Obrador, I lived in the DF while he was mayor and he did some great things. Balanced the budget..I think for the first time in over 60 years, improved the infrastructure and traffic flow issues, hired women cops, and gave everyone over 70 a pension. He is a great leader and definitely a man of the people who knows how to rally the troops. But did he win the election? I honestly don't think so. Would he make a great President? It depends on who you ask. I don't have the fear of him that many of my friends and colleagues do, but then again, I didn't vote for him. I just believe that whoever won the election should be President. We'll see.

I don't think anyone here is saying Mexico is the only source of corruption, but the corruption is certainly more widespread - one can not rely on the police, for example. You may prefer giving the cop $200 (pesos) to evade a traffic citation, but the day you want police protection when your home or office is invaded and you are required to pay for their services, or be beaten or even raped by law enforcement officers without any recourse... well, some of us prefer to have honest cops. We sometimes get what we ask for.

Is it dangerous? As anywhere, one must ask locally, because there certainly are places that are dangerous, and circumstances that bring greater risk.

As to what some of us are saying here is that if people wish to enjoy a holiday, this is probably not the time to visit the Federal District, or Oaxaca. Lopez Obrador has threatened to increase the actions to create stoppage in the Federal District in the next few days, likely to culminate Sunday in another large demonstration in the Zócalo. I personaly do not believe it is a good idea to meander about in large demonstrations, and particularly those where anger may be demonstrated against citizens of those countries who have already recognized or congratulated the opposing candidate as President, in Mexico or anywhere else.

As well, things have turned worse in Oaxaca, since the APPO and and SNTE have taken over or immobilized several media outlets, have taken a number of vehicles over and threaten to burn them if the governor does not leave office.

Oaxaca (and some other areas) have had their problems, and will have them again. The orderliness and "cleanliness" of the recent election, and what happens in Mexico the next few weeks, will show Mexico has matured democratically in ways we could not have foreseen in, say, the 1960s, and that the people are more committed to the order of law. This would bode very well for tourism, foreign investments, economic growth and true stability. But when there are many people who are angry, there is always a possibility some will take their own direction.

People can certainly choose to visit - but they should be aware they may be discomforted, as the worker who must walk kilometers to work or be quite late because they are not lodged in a comfortable and nearby hotel. They should know that protesters disrupted even the ACA airport, if they wish a trouble-free holiday with on-time departures. I'd have no problem flying to the D. F. to visit my family tomorrow - but those wanting a trouble-free holiday, particularly if they donot know the language and culture, might be better served elsewhere if they do not feel comfortable. And frankly, the next few days and weeks are unpredictable, as you indicate.

Thanks for a local post to update us. We are all hoping for the best - Mexico's coming of age as a multiparty and open democracy has been overdue, in my opinion. Issues in the USA can best be discussed elsewhere, whether they are related to travel or other issues, in their respective fora.

I am curious if a grey goose on the rocks is $16 like it is at any W in NYC. Let us know...

No, it's only about $US11. Mexico is cheap.

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico's top electoral court on Saturday rejected a full recount in the disputed presidential election, ordering a partial count instead, angering leftist protesters camped in the capital demanding a new vote-by-vote tally over their fraud allegations.

See http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-05-mexico-recount_x.htm

This does not sound good to me :(
I was planning a trip to Yucatan, but wonder if the unrest will spread from Mexico city to other parts of the country.

I might worry if I were headed to Oaxaca or even Guerrero, but I don't think you will have any troubles in the state of Yucatan at all. Cancún, in the state of Quintana Roo, has had minor troubles for years now, usually civil servant protests downtown in the non-tourist area, because of corruption in the QR state government and irregular municipal paychecks. Most tourists are completely unaware of these issues.

The PRD protests will be taken to the electoral commission, who said they would examine approximately 9% of the ballots but are not calling for a full recount. I expect slowdowns, service and traffic interruptions to be strong possibilties the next few days in Mexico City; I don't know if any more protests have been scheduled at the Acapulco airport. (One PRD member who was interviewed by the media did mention they hadn't yet taken the protests to the airports etc. - so to me this means they have thought of it - if they do MEX will be more of a zoo, and traffic to / from MEX is bottlenecked as it is.)



MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico's top electoral court on Saturday rejected a full recount in the disputed presidential election, ordering a partial count instead, angering leftist protesters camped in the capital demanding a new vote-by-vote tally over their fraud allegations.

See http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-05-mexico-recount_x.htm

This does not sound good to me :(
I was planning a trip to Yucatan, but wonder if the unrest will spread from Mexico city to other parts of the country.

I was planning a trip to Yucatan, but wonder if the unrest will spread from Mexico city to other parts of the country.

Probably it will be only minor problems, and even then, probably just in states where PRD-party has support.

Mexico City is pretty much the same - blockades of the downtown area, particularly Madero and Reforma avenues and the Zócalo, occupied by folks who have set up tented cities. The Turibús "on and off" tour bus, for example, has shut down for the duration due to the traffic impediments.

Flash demonstrations have disrupted airports for relatively brief periods of time in several Mexican cities, including Acapulco. Other crowds have taken control of toll stations outlying Mexico City on the Federal Highway system; to date, they have merely taken over and allowed drivers to bypass without paying tolls - but they could as easily block traffic completely, and it would not be unthinkable for Federal authorities to send personnel to arrest or contain the disruptive demonstrators - the toll stations are not operated by Federal District authorities, who are pretty much under PRD control.

The elections bodies have agreed to review 9% of votes - so far, they have not found any major irregularities in the ballots that have been inspected so far, but we can probably expect the PRD candidate to claim fraud, insist his audiences to create more civil disobedience actions and to demand more counts. Both Mexican elections bodies are "clean," and both they and elections observers from other nations have stated the elections themselves were pretty clean and honest - the PRD continues to allege they lost the elections by fraud and demand remedial action.

My position? I am hoping this issue gets resolved soon, and that the resolution is entirely peaceful. Should you go to Mexico City? If you feel you need to, be sure to inform yourself with local knowledge and avoid groups of people, bottlenecks, and to be prepared to display flexibility and patience - your plans could easily be distupted.

The apparently losing PRD candidate, Andrés Manuel López Obrador ("AMLO,") and his PRD (Party of the Democratic Revolution, now also calling itself the "coalition for the Wellbeing of All,") announced on Sunday August 13 that he still insists all the ballots in Mexico's presidential election be recounted, and stated the civil resistance may continue "for years, if circumstances call for it." ("El candidato de la coalición Por el Bien de Todos, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, afirmó que si las circunstancias lo ameritan, la resistencia civil que encabeza podría durar años." - El Universal.)

Civil disobedience (but no major indications of violence, though some assaults and rapes in the camps are under investigation - they have been blamed on "outisde agitatiors" by PRD officials,) continues in Mexico City, including barricades of main streets by camps. It appears some of the camps may disappear, due to the inability of some to continue to live on the streets for long periods of time. Meanwhile, unpaid electric taps to city power lines have been allowed by city officials to supply the camps, and business affected by the disobedience (hotels and restaurants in particular,) are being allowed to not pay taxes otherwise due to the Federal District government. AMLO's PRD party controls the Federal District government, and this is apparently being done to try to minimize the opposition to the civil disobedience - polls indicate two thirds of the city's citizens are opposed to further blockades and other disturbances.

The electoral tribunal, or TEPJF, will probably announce today it has examined the 9% of ballots they had questions about without any significant findings of fraud - I don't imagine any major changes from what they had previously announced, nor do most analysts imagine the TPPJF will decide to examine many more ballot bundles.

The PRD / "coalition for the Wellbeing of All" has made press releases speculating that if certain imaginative projections are made about missing, illegal or otherwise irregular ballots, and a ful lcount is carried out, AMLO might have sufficient votes to be delcared president. AMLO announced a four-point action plan on Sunday:

- PRD gathering when the presidency of the PAN candidate, Felipe Calderón, is announced.

- PRD gathering Sept 1 when current president Fox, called "that traitor to Democracy that is Vicente Fox" by AMLO, makes his state of the nation address.

- PRD gathering in the Zócalo the 15th of September to celebrate their own version of the "grito" that announces Independence Day.

- On September 16, Independence Day, the PRD will hold a "National Democratic Convention" with (PRD) representatives from throughout the entire country to decide what will be done next.

AMLO has called for more acts of civil disobedience for the next month (and as stated previously, even "for years" if necessary.)

Visitors to Mexico City should continue to be preapred for potential traffic stoppages and service disruptions, and should avoid crowds. In particular, avoid major city arterial streets and the Zócalo centreal square the afternoon / evening of September 15 and the day of September 16, Independence Day in Mexico. IMO, a small chance exists a disruption could cause delays at the airport, or that the major highway connecting the center and airport could be blockaded briefly.

The first incident of violence has occurred in Mexico City in a riot baton and tear gas attack on PRD demonstrators, during which about 20~30 people were injured, including some 15 PRD lawmakers. PRD demonstrators apparently tried to establish a camp outside the Congress and were allegedly blocking access to the Chamber of Deputies (Congress,) which soon deteriorated as some demonstrators throwing stones and bottles at the Federal Preventive Police - who retaliated with their tear gas and batons.

The Policía Federal Preventiva (Federal Preventive Police) were there to prevent blockage of the Federal legislative body's building and were ordered not to allow construction of a camp there. The PFP are, as the name suggests, under control of the Federal government, rather than the PRD-led government of the Federal District; the Federal District authorities have, if anything, bent over backwards to accommodate and collaborate with the PRD, according to many in Mexico City.

This BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4793271.stm) says "Mexican riot police fired tear gas and used clubs to break up a protest by supporters of left-wing presidential challenger Andrés Manuel López Obrador."

AMLO, as he is referred to, accused the outgoing PAN president Fox of "repression" and said that on September 1, the PRD would assemble and demonstrate at the same venue. The legislators injured stated they would file claims for injuries and kidnap, as they were detained briefly by the PFP.

Articles in El Univbersal newspaper said ~3,000 PFP agents were in and about the Palace of San Lázaro and would assure no blockages would occur to the legislative body and the presidential report on the state of the nation to be given September 1.

This was an isolated incident so far, but it highlights the importance of avoiding crowds and areas of civil unrest, in Mexico or elsewhere. It would be particularly worrisome if the various Federal and Federal District (national and "state") law enforcement agencies came into conflict with each other or the armed forces were called out.

I've been in Mexico City for the past 7 weeks and will continue to remain here for another 5 weeks. Fortunately I am staying and work in an area that is removed from the demonstrations (Santa Fe). I've been to Centro and various other parts of the city on the weekends and have witnessed the disruptions being caused mostly by people who have set up camp on main avenues and amassed in the Centro area.

From what I understand, AMLO's party is amongst other things, providing food for everyone so you will undoubtley find people with lesser means occupying the tents and supporting AMLO.

I'm around for a drink, PM me if you come to town!

I've been in Mexico City for the past 7 weeks and will continue to remain here for another 5 weeks. Fortunately I am staying and work in an area that is removed from the demonstrations (Santa Fe). I've been to Centro and various other parts of the city on the weekends and have witnessed the disruptions being caused mostly by people who have set up camp on main avenues and amassed in the Centro area.

From what I understand, AMLO's party is amongst other things, providing food for everyone so you will undoubtley find people with lesser means occupying the tents and supporting AMLO.

I'm around for a drink, PM me if you come to town!

I'm going to be visiting Mexico City on the Labor day weekend, so I might PM you closer to that time...

I'm going to be visiting Mexico City on the Labor day weekend, so I might PM you closer to that time...

Please do. Techgirl (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/member.php?u=5239) posted earlier in this thread that she will be in town then as well. A get together would be fun (FT DO style).

There is a good article asking the right questions about the future ourcome of the elections on BBC today, by their correspondent n Mexico City (lives there.)

Today, addressing the usual crowd in the Zócalo / central square, hopeful candidate AMLO accused the right of throwing "cannonloads of money" at the Elections Tribunal, as well as offers for future employment, to dismiss the charges of fraud brought by the PRD. AMLO also accused PAN and PRI of collusion to keep ORD out in the cold, and that PRD will "continue the civil resistance to defend justice, liberty and democracy."

There seems to be nothing new at this time; merely continue avoiding crowds, and be aware of traffic and occasional service disruptions. No news is good news, IMO.

(I will be in Europe for ten days or so, and not able to post current Mexico City conditions to this thread. Given other FTers are / will be there, we can hope for more up to date information from the traveler's perspective; thanks all who can keep us informed on how Mexico's current electoral events may affect travelers to that city.)

mistake, sorry...

Please do. Techgirl (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/member.php?u=5239) posted earlier in this thread that she will be in town then as well. A get together would be fun (FT DO style).

Would be much fun... I've had a couple people PM me about this so I think we could potentially have a fun group.

I'm heading down with one of my girlfriends and we are staying at the W... arrive Friday late afternoon and depart Monday late afternoon.

How would Saturday night work out for those in town? If that is feasible, I say lets pick a time and a hotel to meet up at and we can have drinks and then head to dinner?

(Barring any other amendments, may I suggest the W lobby at 7 pm?)

How would Saturday night work out for those in town? If that is feasible, I say lets pick a time and a hotel to meet up at and we can have drinks and then head to dinner?

(Barring any other amendments, may I suggest the W lobby at 7 pm?)

Sure. That would be Saturday, September 2nd, correct?

I'm fine with the W hotel.

Sure. That would be Saturday, September 2nd, correct?

I'm fine with the W hotel.

Yeah, this sounds good!

Here is the thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6268544#post6268544) that I started in Community so we can keep this thread on the safety topic.

I'll update that main post as we confirm more details. :cool:

Wow, go to Europe and the FT contingent meets... in MEX! ;)

But, no major changes - Felipe Calderón Hinojosa has been declared President Elect by virtue of the Elections Tribunal finding no evidence of major fraud and will not order a ballot-by-ballot recount. Andrés Manuel López Obrador continues to claim massive fraud and states he may establish a shadow government, or... (Foreign observers have previously stated "The Mexican elections... appeared free, democratic and trustworthy, save small errors that had no effect on the final outcome." The tribunal has found the same.)

AMLO will give the shout of Independence September 15 at the Zócalo, as if he were President, which will be interesting as President Fox normally would give the shout at midnight from the Palace there. The tent cities will "make way" for the Army on September 16, Mexico's Independence Day, so that bit of tension is out of the way. But September 16 at 3PM / 15:00 will also signal the convocation of a "National Democratic Convention" meeting where the PRD will determine what is next - if they will recognize the President Elect, or establish a government of resistance, etc.

The tensions in Oaxaca continue - it continues to be a good time to avoid unnecessary travel to Oaxaca, where violence and the threats of violence, continue. Oaxaca is losing a vast amount of tourism dollars as shuttered businesses and hotels let off hundreds of staff, and the normally packed Christmas season is seeing many booking cancellations.

AMLO is acting like a 3 year old. He lost as fair as possible election in Mexico, he needs to concede. It is very selfish of him and his supporters to continue this charade at the expense of the Country as a whole.

If AMLO wants to win next time, he needs to readjust his message to appeal to more people. Ie he needs to learn to be a better politician (liar??)

Democracy so long as I win is not a good formula. That is how dictatorships start.

Apologies for bumping the thread but I'll be going through MEX soon and wanted to ask a question.

Specifically, I'll have to overnight before I can catch my onward connection and was wondering if it was A) possible... (or advisable) to just camp out in the airport B) if A's out, what's a good airport hotel which can offer a clean, safe and comfortable room.

Thanks!

With Mexico City traffic - it's not even about safegty in this instance - I can recommend the Hilton, which is IN the terminal building (third level.) It is so easy to stay there, get some brekkies in the moring and wander down to collect your BPs using the lift and escalator. Nearby are the Camino Real Aeropuerto (connected to the airport by a pedestrian bridge, but less convenient to the international terminal, than the Hilton,) and a Fiesta Inn (less than ten minutes away, but why hassle it?)

Apologies for bumping the thread but I'll be going through MEX soon and wanted to ask a question.

Specifically, I'll have to overnight before I can catch my onward connection and was wondering if it was A) possible... (or advisable) to just camp out in the airport B) if A's out, what's a good airport hotel which can offer a clean, safe and comfortable room.

Thanks!

J. Edward,

Make sure you check out the CO PC there....great selection of tequilas and other margarita fixin's. The beer selection's good too.

In the PC, as a tequila chaser, ask the bartender for the sangrita de la casa. It is a spicey tomato, slightly sweet (wtih orange juice) concoction. I hate the commericial ones but love the ones that are made in the bar. The PC has a very tasty one.

In fact, ask him for tequila a las banderas with the sangrita de la casa. You get the tequilla, lime juice, and sangrita. Drunk in that order.

It would appear a number of Mexico City PRD legislators have publicly announced they will accept President- elect Calderón when he is appointed Dec 1.

(10-04) 18:25 PDT MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) --

A spokeswoman for leftist legislators from Mexico City said Wednesday they would recognize conservative Felipe Calderon as president-elect, despite orders to shun him as part of protests over the July 2 election their party claims was fraudulent.

Nancy Cardenas said she was making the statement on behalf of the dominant 34-member delegation of the Democratic Revolution Party in the legislature representing the capital — a stronghold of party ex-presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

"We are going to recognize Calderon because he is going to take office on Dec. 1 as president of the republic, but it doesn't mean that we agree with his platform," Cardenas told reporters, according to a transcript of her remarks distributed to news media.

remainder of article here (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/10/04/international/i182520D79.DTL).

The implications are that Mexico City will return to a semblance of normalcy, since AMLO's own partisans are disagreeing with his instructions, and desires to set up an obstructionist shadow government, but Nancy Cárdenas seems to be recanting part of what she said under PRD pressure.

This means we will still have to take precautions in Mexico City for the usual security issues - pirate taxis, thefts, dangerous areas (especially at night,) etc. of course, but it may be a harbinger of a reduction of some of the other tensions brought about by the AMLO-PRD standoff. And do expect demonstrations, possibly massive ones, December 1 downtown Mexico City.

In Oaxaca, however, tensions seem to be deepening and things may get decidedly worse. I would strongly suggest avoiding the city of Oaxaca until the strife there is over; if the army or Federal police are sent to break the barricades, there may be considerable violence.

Mexico City seems quite safe - well, as safe as ever - right now, and things have calmed down. The PRD Presidential candidate has lots a lot of impetus and even local support, particularly since the PRD lost the gubernatorial race in Tabasco, Mr. Lopez Obrador's home state, by ten percentage points. (This means AMLO appears to have lost "his" state, from which he would be able to garner financial and political support for his proposed shadow government to counter the elected one.)

I would expect demonstrations when President Vicente Fox leaves office and turns over the reins of government to his elected successor, Felipe Calderon. Demonstrations before then would be possible if a debacle follows the October 27 deployment of Federal police to Oaxaca to quell the demonstrators and clear the barricades.

More on the Oaxaca situation (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618121)

The San Francisco Chronicle reports (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/11/06/international/i093208S75.DTL&hw=Mexico+bomb&sn=001&sc=1000) today, November 6 2006, in part:

"Homemade bombs exploded early Monday at the Federal Electoral Tribunal, a bank branch and the headquarters of the former ruling party in the country's capital, causing no injuries but rattling nerves in a country wracked by protests since a contested presidential vote.

A coalition of resistance groups claimed responsibility, but officials said it still wasn't clear who carried out the blasts.

The explosions shortly after midnight damaged an auditorium at the headquarters of the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI, a branch of Canadian-owned Scotiabank, the Federal Electoral Tribunal, and businesses and residences near the court.

Police deactivated two other bombs, one at a second Scotiabank near the court and another outside a Sanborns restaurant, a chain owned by billionaire Carlos Slim, near the PRI headquarters, said Mexico City Public Safety Secretary Joel Ortega."

It is difficult to say whether this is a one-time thing or not, but sources in Mexico City's governing PRD party say that the bombs went of within a short period of time and were coordinated, and were set off at a time to cause property damage but not major casualties.

Be aware - a new possibility exists in Mexico City of bombings to protest the upcoming Presidential inauguration December 1.

The bombings apparently stopped when the bombers realized they were not going to foment the next revolution and had in fact earned much anger, rather than support, from the average Mexican.

Mexico City is currently calm, but December 1 the PRD party as represented by Andrés Manuel López Obrador ("AMLO,") the losing presidential candidate who declared himself "legitimate president of Mexico" at a public ceremony attended by about 100,000 at the Zócalo, has vowed to establish a "shadow government" that will have the declared intent of paralyzing the elected government of PAN's Felipe Calderón Hinojosa at every turn. Even though much of the PRD's respresentation in the legislature has disavowed violence or even disruption, significant sectors of the PRD and its consitutency will attempt to endure and be disruptive of the "other" government - one may expect occasional local disruptions of services and demonstrations, which I would avoid.

Calderón takes the presidency and dons the sash of office December 1, and AMLO has urged Mexicans to protest and prevent a peaceful passing of the presidency from Fox to Calderón. This might be a very good day to avoid downtown, just in case.

Thanks for the updates JDiver.

My wife and I took our daughter to Guadalajara for Thanksgiving and had a great time. We did have a comfort zone mostly around our hotel and the plazas in the Centro Historico and at all times we saw other families with small children so that gave us some sense of security (this wasn't three in the morning either). There was quite a police presence too.