Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Same price for award re-issue and award cancellation?

I think I understand that there's a 40€ fee to cancel an award ticket and redeposit the miles. Is it also 40€ to re-issue an award ticket?

Yep. :)

If I reissue an award for the return part (after the outbound already flown), is it still the case that the routing and carriers cannot be changed (only dates & flight numbers)?

At least 2 month ago this was true. And i dont know of any change except using the train instead of the flight on FRA-STR/ZWS

If I reissue an award for the return part (after the outbound already flown), is it still the case that the routing and carriers cannot be changed (only dates & flight numbers)?
My friend just tried to apply changes to her return bit (again...) three days ago and was
told that the routing is untouchable.
But another goody is that stopovers - if permitted - can still be changed.

... the routing is untouchable.
On the LH site ROC was not offered as destination :confused: , therfore I booked ORD-DUS-ORD some months ago. I could not remember exactly if I asked the CSR at the LH FTL desk explicitely, but I remember faintly he told me that ROC-ORD was not available (or possible?)
Thus, according to the above, extending the (award) itinerary by ROC-ORD would be a no-no?

For my wife I have another itinerary ORD-DUS-ORD on hold. The ticket is not issued yet. Any chances here (pending availability)?

I guess for an award tix in C the domestic portions book into X ?

On the LH site ROC was not offered as destination :confused: , therfore I booked ORD-DUS-ORD some months ago. I could not remember exactly if I asked the CSR at the LH FTL desk explicitely, but I remember faintly he told me that ROC-ORD was not available (or possible?)
Thus, according to the above, extending the (award) itinerary by ROC-ORD would be a no-no?

For my wife I have another itinerary ORD-DUS-ORD on hold. The ticket is not issued yet. Any chances here (pending availability)?

I guess for an award tix in C the domestic portions book into X ?

The US domestic portions of an international C ticket book into O (= F class) on a two class US/UA flight, if available.

As long as the ticket is not issued yet, you can do any changes you want to the flights on hold. Just after the ticket was issued, no add-ons, routing changes, etc are possible.

On the LH site ROC was not offered as destination :confused: , therfore I booked ORD-DUS-ORD some months ago...Thus, according to the above, extending the (award) itinerary by ROC-ORD would be a no-no?
Not really, only once travelling has commenced it is a no-no on all but RTW
awards.
No idea on how easily X/O inventory might open on the US domestic bits. But
I had better flights opening on UA quite a few times in the past.
..As long as the ticket is not issued yet, you can do any changes you want to the flights on hold. Just after the ticket was issued, no add-ons, routing changes, etc are possible.
That is changes for free. If you are willing you sacrifice the EUR40, then
you can do how you please prior to departure.

Not really, only once travelling has commenced it is a no-no on all but RTW
awards.
No idea on how easily X/O inventory might open on the US domestic bits. But
I had better flights opening on UA quite a few times in the past.

That is changes for free. If you are willing you sacrifice the EUR40, then
you can do how you please prior to departure.

Thank you for your input. I just called LH.
1. After the ticket is issued, no changes are possible. The CSR tried to make a complete new booking ROC-ORD-DUS. Unfortunately, ORD-DUS is not possible on the day I travel. Thus, I have to go to united.bomb and shop for flights :td:

2. For my wife's intinerary (still on hold) she could easily add on a ROC-ORD leg (no fee).

3. This domestic leg is Y only. That will probably cause a WIC (wife in coach) situation, since my ticket will be in domestic F. Or probably a FIC (fradoc in coach) situation ;)

Thank you for your input. I just called LH.


In cases like this, where ridiculous/stubborn rules and regulations come into play, it's often good to fight back with equally ridiculous/stubborn means. In your specific case, you could have booked the award with a more complex routing (at least one transfer in each zones) than necessary. Reason: M&M will allow routing simplifications even after the award was ticketed. So as long as your change saves a connection, you are good.

..After the ticket is issued, no changes are possible. The CSR tried to make a complete new booking ROC-ORD-DUS. Unfortunately, ORD-DUS is not possible on the day I travel. Thus, I have to go to united.bomb and shop for flights..
Is this such a thingy like the RTW 'first leg rule'? As I added new segments to
already issued awards all the time. Also adding open jaws never proved to be an
issue.
Could easily be that the agent was too lazy or just found a convenient rule
that your routing - despite already held with your award - was not available.
I clearly recall to have changed the entire outbound for my friend after
the award was already issued.
..Reason: M&M will allow routing simplifications even after the award was ticketed. So as long as your change saves a connection, you are good.
Yes this is true. But really not necessary in this case. The award is a US-EU
award, and I am sure that the agent could easily override the system that
acted up.
It reminds of those MP agents (actually all but the HNL gang) when you swap
instruments on a confirmed upgrade - they all claim that your upgrade will be
cancelled and you go back to the WL. Then you call HNL and it's done,
no questions asked.
As for your wife fradoc she will be confirmed in coach but she still will
be WLed for C or F, so you might both be lucky.

Could easily be that the agent was too lazy or just found a convenient rule that your routing - despite already held with your award - was not available. I clearly recall to have changed the entire outbound for my friend after the award was already issued.

As for your wife fradoc she will be confirmed in coach but she still will
be WLed for C or F, so you might both be lucky.

Sounds like I have to adhere to FT's Rule Number One for dealing with negative callcenter outcomes: call again! BTW: My award tix is already issued.

The award is a US-EU
award, and I am sure that the agent could easily override the system that
acted up.

The M&M agent can change whatever he/she wants as long as there are award seats. The agent can also waive the change fee.

But all of this would be customer service.
Not gonna happen.

..But all of this would be customer service.
Not gonna happen.
You talk like this weero-vulture now. Wonder what they did to you to
justify this transition :p .
Sounds like I have to adhere to FT's Rule Number One for dealing with negative callcenter outcomes: call again!..
Not sure if that helps. I find LH call centre infos very consistent per region.
I will always get a strikingly similar answer when I call the SEN desk in ZRH.
SEN Oz is forwarded however and one can get very flexible Irish agents or
born prison guards.
The rule they named you may exist, it just has never been an issue for me.
It also cannot be too intrinsic a problem for them: you ad a UA segment to a
LH operated flight. UA will never know of that LH leg was already ticketed. So
it should be entirely up to LH's discretion what they grant you and what not.
So it seems that Flymaster is right once more :( .

You talk like this weero-vulture now. Wonder what they did to you to
justify this transition :p .

Nothing in particular. But I think there's quite a concensus on this board that LH ground service, especially call center knowledge and flexibility is pretty much a thing of the past for SEN and lower. The only good reports are coming from the HONs (you know, the guys who are lead to the front of lines while normal F pax wait for hours, the guys who can open up LX award space for BJ with a single phone call, the guys who tell about always calling the HON line to book tickets because they are so nice, friendy and competent, etc.).

Comparison: When I call LH to buy a ticket, they make up rules to prevent me from buying it. ;)

Granted, the SEN line in Kassel is usually competent and friendly, but there's no flexibility. Waitlisting of awards? Fuhgettaboutit. And wasn't there just a thread stating that it took 5 calls to even waitlist an upgrade using eVouchers? Gimme a break! What a shame.

Called LH again, they could confirm me at least for all legs except ORD-DUS (US portions in X). Will have to visit ANA frequently...

..especially call center knowledge and flexibility is pretty much a thing of the past for SEN and lower....
Comparison: When I call LH to buy a ticket, they make up rules to prevent me from buying it. ;)
Both quite true. Even the situation is not nearly as drammatic as in the UA/MP
case and its wonderful ICC.
The ICC could not even sell me an SFO-YVR ticket two weeks ago as "Vancouver
is an Air Canada plane". Naive me who though of Vancouver of a Canadian city.
As I waste about ~10-15 mins of call centre time per $1000 spent, I wonder
why the costs of the CCs would matter. If it is people calling for hours for no
good reason then the solution is to find ways to get them off the hook efficiently
and not to get rid of all customers :confused: ...
I get this nightmarish ideas that most customers fly A-B return on a single carrier.
And CCs have been remodelled to serve these needs. For somone who dares
to fly A-B-C-B-D-A or comparably vicious routes, there is no mechanism provided
anymore

Both quite true. Even the situation is not nearly as drammatic as in the UA/MP
case and its wonderful ICC.
The ICC could not even sell me an SFO-YVR ticket two weeks ago as "Vancouver
is an Air Canada plane". Naive me who though of Vancouver of a Canadian city.

And I thought 17K/5MMs/semiUGS would always get a ultrasurely U.S. agent (and never the ICC) when calling the U.S. tolle free number (which is callable from every place in the world). :confused:

Or are you calling the ICC for the fun of reporting your hilarious experiences on FT? @:-)

And I thought 17K/5MMs/semiUGS would always get a ultrasurely U.S. agent (and never the ICC) when calling the U.S. tolle free number (which is callable from every place in the world). :confused:
The quiff free number's not always easy to call. From my phone here in Canada
exempli gratia, I always get a "the number you called is not availble from the
area you are calling" - after asking HAL for 'reservations', typing in my MP
number and answering security questions on name and sexual preference :( .
Calling SYD doesn't work either but calls the PCC do work. It's just that with
the time difference a call to the PCC is diverted to the ICC.
//Or are you calling the ICC for the fun of reporting your hilarious experiences on FT? @:-)
I asked that myself many times. Apart from being baffled, shocked, and upset,
there is some magic lure in listening to the most incredible lies, excuses,
and cluelessness...

The quiff free number's not always easy to call. From my phone here in Canada

Strange. The 1K 1-800 number on the back of my card is listed as for "calls from the U.S. and Canada".

Called LH hotline again today, third attempt. Remember: I had one issued award ticket (ORD-DUS) and one held award reservation ROC-DUS with the ORD-DUS leg missing. Eventually, the CSA checked back with his supervisor and added the domestic portion ROC-ORD-ROC to my already issued ORD-DUS-ORD ticket. Change fee $40+$~25 ROC airport taxes. The domestic legs are still in X (ORD-ROC is a two-class 735 but no O seats available).
That all took about 50' at the phone with lot of going back and forth. He could not open up any I seats for LH 437 ORD-DUS. I suggested to change the outbound leg ROC-ORD to a later flight and to add ORD-FRA on LH 433 (new C) to the held reservation and to cancel the already issued ticket. Since I confirmed an award tix for my wife in the same session, booking a third award would have resulted in a temporary overdraft until the other miles were re-credited (6-8 weeks); impossible for FTL (it was me who brought that up :( ). After rejecting the alternative of spending 25000 miles :rolleyes: for a domestic award, the CSA promised to find "an easier solution for me" put me on hold, et voilà. The reservation is confirmed and the ticket will be re-issued in the next days.

BTW: He was unable to reserve a seat in UA Y+. Also the UA CSA came up with the "all seats taken" bravo-sierra. After providing my UA# Y+ opened up. I guess chances of moving up to F will be slim (will be 1P by that time).

As for your wife fradoc she will be confirmed in coach but she still will
be WLed for C or F, so you might both be lucky.

I asked both LH and UA. There is no WL for *A awards; they asked me to call :( .
I could not even get her into Y+ since she has no status and -according to UA- the award is treated as an isolated Y (XY) ticket, regardless if is is an international C or F award. As I will be on the same flight (but different PNR) on a paid ticket they recommended me to address the UA ticket counter in ROC on one of my next flights with the confirmations and try to get a Y+ seat.

I could not even get her into Y+ since she has no status

Even worse: The same will happen if you are on a FRW or CRW on a single class (Y) plane with no *A status. You'll sit in E-, even if you paid $10,000 for a First Class RTW.

UA. Gotta love it.