Asia - Cambodia itenary

I am planning a trip to Vietnam in Nov and then realised I could take a side trip to Cambodia. Time is an issue for me. I hope to take the earliest flight from SGN to PNH which reaches by 12-1PM and do a city tour of Phnom incl killing fields and genocide museum. Then next day I hope to take an early morning flight to Siem reaching by 7-8AM and see Angkor for the day and the next day I need to fly out. Now I would like to know if this is a realistic plan - do things in Cambodia run efficiently and punctually? I am also finding it difficult to get a Phnom-Siem air ticket and would appreciate some help with that. Thanks.

You could just as easily avoid PNH cpmpletely and fly straight to Siem Reap from SGN and thereby allow more time for Angkor. The genocide museum is a particularly gruesome place...it was too much for me.



I am planning a trip to Vietnam in Nov and then realised I could take a side trip to Cambodia. Time is an issue for me. I hope to take the earliest flight from SGN to PNH which reaches by 12-1PM and do a city tour of Phnom incl killing fields and genocide museum. Then next day I hope to take an early morning flight to Siem reaching by 7-8AM and see Angkor for the day and the next day I need to fly out. Now I would like to know if this is a realistic plan - do things in Cambodia run efficiently and punctually? I am also finding it difficult to get a Phnom-Siem air ticket and would appreciate some help with that. Thanks.

You could just as easily avoid PNH cpmpletely and fly straight to Siem Reap from SGN and thereby allow more time for Angkor. The genocide museum is a particularly gruesome place...it was too much for me.


I actually have been to Auschwitz and was wondering what those who have seen both would recomend.

I actually have been to Auschwitz and was wondering what those who have seen both would recomend.

I haven't been to Auschwitz but have been to Dachau - albeit a long time ago. Another perhaps relevant point: I live in Phnom Penh.

Tuol Sleng (the genocide museum) is of course not an uplifting place. However, if you want to get a sense of the scope and/or depth of the horror inflicted by the Khmers Rouges, it's certainly worth a visit. It gives you a very different impression from Siem Reap / Angkor Wat, of course. I think it's worth it, but I understand that others may disagree. It is not a sanitized place - some of the rooms have more or less been left as they were found. But for me, one of the most affecting parts of the exhibit are all the photos (headshots) of the victims - it's just people's faces, but I felt it really humanized the genocide.

If you do go to Tuol Sleng, there's a good café, The Boddhi Tree, just across the street - they make good smoothies - useful for decompressing after the visit.

As far as timing goes, I would limit your Phnom Penh trip to the genocide museum -- or at least go there first. If you still have time and desire, then head to the killing fields; there are always moto taxis / tuk-tuks waiting outside Tuol Sleng to take you there (or back to your hotel).

For flights between PNH and REP, I would book via Siem Reap Airways (an affiliate of Bangkok Airways). You should be able to get the schedules on their website.

Feel free to post/PM with other questions about Phnom Penh.

Enjoy your trip,
Michael

If you go to Siem Reap, I recommend a tour guide rather than trying to do the temples on your own. My friend and I used (after getting the recommendation from a friend who also used) a guide named Dara and his sister Ponheary. Their email is ponheary@yahoo.com and they could help schedule your visit. They had an air conditioned car and driver to take us around (much appreciated when we were there in August) which refreshed us before going out and climbing all the temples. Both Dara and Pon speak excellent English.

Have a great trip

If you go to Siem Reap, I recommend a tour guide rather than trying to do the temples on your own. My friend and I used (after getting the recommendation from a friend who also used) a guide named Dara and his sister Ponheary. Their email is ponheary@yahoo.com and they could help schedule your visit. They had an air conditioned car and driver to take us around (much appreciated when we were there in August) which refreshed us before going out and climbing all the temples. Both Dara and Pon speak excellent English.

Have a great trip

You might be surprised, but August is actually much more pleasant than, say, April/May.

That said, an air conditioned car is nice at pretty much any time of year.

Michael

there are some past threads on it, but trying to see Angor in one day is a nightmare. You need more time if you can possible spare it.

Well, for me, one day at Angkor was enough, and while it was one really long day, it certainly wasn't a nightmare. Certainly, if you want to see more than the main temples (the ones that everybody visits), you'll need more than one day, but for me, the main temples were enough. On the other hand, I spent a week poking around Phnom Penh and wasn't really ready to leave when I needed to.

If one day is all the time the OP has at Angkor, it can certainly be done.

If you go to Siem Reap, I recommend a tour guide rather than trying to do the temples on your own. My friend and I used (after getting the recommendation from a friend who also used) a guide named Dara and his sister Ponheary. Their email is ponheary@yahoo.com and they could help schedule your visit. They had an air conditioned car and driver to take us around (much appreciated when we were there in August) which refreshed us before going out and climbing all the temples. Both Dara and Pon speak excellent English.

Have a great trip

Ponheary has my personal 100% endorsement. She knows the area and is an honest person to deal with, --and trust is something to keep in mind in a country where you know no one. You cannot see Angkor in one day, unless you plan on returning. If you are stuck with one day, skip the guide, get a map of the area (free at the hotel) and hire a motorbike TukTuk driver (bike with a covered 2-3 person attachment) who will take you to the nearest areas. This is a great way to see the area and the cost is low. These drivers don't speak fluent English as a rule, so be prepared to map out your own set of temples.

If you are looking for inexpensive rooms check out Mom's (Google it). If you want something more upscale I recommend the Angkor Village hotel, French owned and very nice.

BTW, you'll need two color passport-sized photos before you come into Cambodia. One for your Visa and one for your Angkor pass.

Also, there are no ATMs in all of Cambodia. Bring dollars, --small denominations. Dollars are preferred over local currency. Hotels take credit cards, but not all do.

More information, and photos of Asia, at www.billkannberg.com.

Thanks folks for your inputs. Here's a little description of my tastes, I am someone who does not like to do too much of a similar thing. Like I once took a long trip in Europe and towards the end began to lose interest in seeing churches, cathedrals, parliament buildings. So I began to do things little at a time to make it more interesting. Now, I have seen many temples in India, Japan and Thailand and as Angkor Wat is more Hindu (IIRC) I am wondering if Angkor will impress me as much. That is one reason I decided one day was more than enough, just to see the main sites possible in a day.

I have picked up some good information hitch-hiking on this thread, thanks.

Here is our itinerary for a trip in November. The NA-SEA-NA flights have been purchased, the rest is in various states of planning and reservation, but will remain tentative with nothing prepaid except the PNH-BKK flight (Air Asia is $12+ = $62 all in for two).

We (Mrs hiyo and I) want to be flexible and let the journey be shaped by events as much as possible.

* 15-16 Nov (air) San Diego (CLD) via Los Angeles-San Francisco-Hong Kong to Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City
* Two nights in Saigon/HCMC
* 18 Nov (bus/boat) Saigon/HCMC to Chau Doc in the Mekong Delta
* Overnight in Chau Doc
* 19 Nov (boat) Chau Doc to Phnom Penh
* 19 Nov (car) Phnom Penh to Siem Reap/Angkor Wat
* Four nights in Siem Reap seeing Angkor Wat and remote temples
* 23 Nov (bus) Siem Reap to Phnom Penh
* Overnight in Phnom Penh
* 24 Nov (air) Phnom Penh to Bangkok
* Three nights in Bangkok
* 27 Nov (air) Bangkok via Tokyo-Los Angeles to Carlsbad/San Diego

We get the "That's not enough time!" comment all the time, but our time off is what it is. The only trips it seems I'm ever disappointed in are the ones not taken. :)

Why are you taking a car from PP to Siem Reap, but a bus from SR to PP? Why not take a bus both ways?

Which remote temples are you planning to visit? You may want to include 1/2 day on the Tonle Sap while in Siem Reap.

Just for calibration, how much are you expecting to spend for a hotel in, say, Siem Reap?

Why are you taking a car from PP to Siem Reap, but a bus from SR to PP? Why not take a bus both ways? We will get into PP on the way north too late for the bus that day.

Which remote temples are you planning to visit? You may want to include 1/2 day on the Tonle Sap while in Siem Reap. In addition to the main complexes, we mainly want to see Beng Melea and Bantay Sreay, and we would love to see the lake villages if time permits.

Just for calibration, how much are you expecting to spend for a hotel in, say, Siem Reap? In Siem Reap we are in a nice guesthouse, $22 a night. In PP we have a room at the FCC for $55.

We are keeping open the option of staying another day in Siem Reap and taking the bus to Bangkok, instead of travelling back to PP and flying to BKK. Events will determine what we do.

Hiyo,
Ok, I understand. Are you taking a share taxi or a dedicated car from PP to SR? If you are a bit intrepid, I recommend a share taxi.

As far as going overland from SR to Bangkok, it's no big deal, though in November, just barely after the rainy season, Highway 6 west from SR to the border and its bridges are likely to be in somewhat bad shape. The definitive guide about this is www.talesofasia.com.

Takes of Asia will recommend most strongly against the bus. I ran into some travellers in April in SR, however, who said it wasn't bad. I've only taken a share taxi to the border and then go by Thai public bus (4 trips), so I can't comment from personal experience.

If you're going to Banteay Srei, you may want to take in Kbal Spean. It's about 12km past Banteay Srei. Try to get an early start to beat the tour buses to Banteay Srei.

If you want a guide recommendation, please email me.

Hiyo,
Ok, I understand. Are you taking a share taxi or a dedicated car from PP to SR? If you are a bit intrepid, I recommend a share taxi. A share taxi is certainly a possibility, although there are two of us, so we are sharing already. A third person in the front would be just fine. Our philosophy, other than events shaping the experience, is: We don't want to be miserable, but neither do we want to be isolated by a cocoon of comfort from the experience.

As far as going overland from SR to Bangkok, it's no big deal, though in November, just barely after the rainy season, Highway 6 west from SR to the border and its bridges are likely to be in somewhat bad shape. The definitive guide about this is www.talesofasia.com. We are actually staying at Gordon's GH, Two Dragons (http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-twodragons.htm), in Siem Reap. He has been a big help in deciding to do this, and in the planning therof.

Takes of Asia will recommend most strongly against the bus. I ran into some travellers in April in SR, however, who said it wasn't bad. I've only taken a share taxi to the border and then go by Thai public bus (4 trips), so I can't comment from personal experience. A share taxi to the border and a Thai public bus sounds like a good idea, if we decide to go overland to Bangkok.

If you're going to Banteay Srei, you may want to take in Kbal Spean. It's about 12km past Banteay Srei. Try to get an early start to beat the tour buses to Banteay Srei.

If you want a guide recommendation, please email me. We have been talking to Dave at Peace of Angkor (http://www.peaceofangkor.com/Tours.htm) about photo tours. He is a Brit photographer and a friend of Gordon's. We are open to pretty much anything, but we are leaning toward Dave and his staff for the help with photos. Mrs hiyo is a semi-pro and this is something she has always wanted, and I would like as much help as we can get to make sure she gets some nice shots.

You'll like the Two Dragons, though the street it's on isn't sealed. The food's good and the people are nice. I recommend breakfast at Soupdragon a block from the market (on "Pub" Street), though it's a bit of a walk.

The Two Dragons can arrange for your overland travel from SR to Bangkok as far as the border. It's pretty simple from there.

So, perhaps overnight in Phnom Penh on the way to Siem Reap and then overland to Bangkok? The journey between PP and Siem Reap is pretty forgettable, so no need to do twice on this trip.

3-4 hours by share taxi from Siem Reap to the border. Probably less than an hour screwing around at the border, depending on how fast Cambodian departure takes (and the mood Thai arrival immigration is in.) 10 minutes from the border to Aranyaprathet bus station. Buses every 1/2 hour or so to Bangkok dureing the day. 4 hours to new Morchit bus station, maybe with one stop, depending on which bus line you take. Good road all the way from Aran to Bangkok.

Where are you staying in Saigon?

Thanks folks for your inputs. Here's a little description of my tastes, I am someone who does not like to do too much of a similar thing. Like I once took a long trip in Europe and towards the end began to lose interest in seeing churches, cathedrals, parliament buildings. So I began to do things little at a time to make it more interesting. Now, I have seen many temples in India, Japan and Thailand and as Angkor Wat is more Hindu (IIRC) I am wondering if Angkor will impress me as much. That is one reason I decided one day was more than enough, just to see the main sites possible in a day.
Personally, I find that each of the place that you have mentioned has a different feels to them. Angkor's one great achievement is stone works among others. As you move further north (Thailand, Laos, Burma, Tibet), the Thevada Buddist artwork switches from stone works to paintings. It is up on how much you do like stone works.

Can Angkor Complex temples be done in a day? Certainly, it just like a normal tour, you are dropped at a place jumped in for an hour, move the next. But your choices will be limited to the one close to Seam Reap. One of the marvel, temple of ladies is a bit further, takes about 1h to get there.

We will get into PP on the way north too late for the bus that day.
Driving long distances through the countryside at night in Cambodia is really not advisable, they drive crazily enough as is and the odds of an accident skyrocket when you can't see where you're going and who else is in your way. Why not overnight in Phnom Penh and take the morning bus to SR? You'll arrive refreshed and in much better shape to hit the temples; if you've got four days there, "missing" a morning isn't critical.

You'll like the Two Dragons, though the street it's on isn't sealed. The food's good and the people are nice. I recommend breakfast at Soupdragon a block from the market (on "Pub" Street), though it's a bit of a walk. I felt like staying there was a way to pay back in some way for all the information I got from Gordon. We are also in tune with his fair trade philosophy and his statement he has no touts steering business to his GH and takes no percentage from suggestions for services he makes to guests.

The Two Dragons can arrange for your overland travel from SR to Bangkok as far as the border. It's pretty simple from there.

So, perhaps overnight in Phnom Penh on the way to Siem Reap and then overland to Bangkok? We were leaning that way, then we saw the video clip on this page (http://www.kiteboardokoboji.com/image/tosiemreap/index.htm). And we would be attempting it right after the rainy season? Yikes. We will have to remain flexible, although what an adventure!

Where are you staying in Saigon? I have absolutely no clue, other than somewhere in or around the Pham Ngu Lao, De Tham, Bui Vien area, but I am totally open to suggestions.

I guess the term for our type of traveller is now being called "flashpacker (http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,10296-1339393,00.html) ." When we were younger, we were backpackers, now we have a little more money and don't mind some comfort, as long as it doesn't isolate us from the experience.

I can't tell when the trip you cite was made. Molly Malone's hasn't been around all that long so it must have been in the last couple of years. Anyway, I made the trip in April, 2006 and it was simple. About 3.5 hours, which was a bit slower than I would have expected. As I recall we went around almost all of the bridges, since it was dry season. Queuing for bridges can add to the transit time, depending on the aggressiveness of your driver, since several bridges choke to one lane.

Just as a data point, I took my family overland from Bangkok to Siem Reap in 2002 and, believe me, I wouldn't have taken any stupid chances. You can ask for the latest info in the tales of asia Cambodia forum when you are getting closer to the date of travel.

As far as Saigon hotels in the Pham Ngu Lao area, I made a recommendation 24 Nov 05, post #9, in this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495255). Good choice for a flash packer. Draft beer just up the street. A block or so away is the, ahem, Sahara Bar. Try to get a seat at the bar before 1AM when the locals start streaming in. (I didn't have my family on that trip.) Good breakfast with real milk at a little sidewalk place on the corner of Bui Vien and Do Quang Dau (not the "pizza" place, which does, however, have good ban xeo).

All this talk of Cambodia and environs makes me wonder what the #$% I'm doing here...

Driving long distances through the countryside at night in Cambodia is really not advisable, they drive crazily enough as is and the odds of an accident skyrocket when you can't see where you're going and who else is in your way. Why not overnight in Phnom Penh and take the morning bus to SR? You'll arrive refreshed and in much better shape to hit the temples; if you've got four days there, "missing" a morning isn't critical.

Just to chime in on the above point, which I totally agree with. I have a number of friends, both foreign and local, who have had traffic accidents while driving at night. Note that the problem may not be the other cars, but also the obstacles that you can't see so easily when it's dark - e.g., cows, oxcarts, piles of construction material (that's what did in a friend's car on t he road to Battambang), etc.

I would definitely stay in PP the first night there and then leave in the morning for Siem Reap. Or stay an extra day and enjoy the city - up to you.

Enjoy your trip,
Michael

Your itinerary is certainly possible , but I think you will feel a bit rushed. If given a choice of one day at Angkor or not going at all, I would choose the former. I was just there last summer and can share my experience. Phnom Phen is a lovely city with a fair bit to see and do. The killing fields are about a 30 to 40 minute drive from town and are worth seeing. Seeing the tower of skulls in the monument is a moving experience and a testimony to how insane and cruel people can be and a grim reminder that despite the atrocities of the holocaust, history seems to repeat itself over and over. The genocide museum is well worth a visit, as well as the palace in the city and the market. I took a direct flight from Phnom to Siem Riep on Bangkok airways. Very inexpensive and pleasant. Again , if you only have one day in Angkor , then that's all you have and make the most of it. You have a choice being on the back of a motorbike, tuk tuk (motorised with a cover), or an actual air con vehicle/taxi which ranges in price from least to most expensive. I chose the middle one, 20 USD for the day. I picked up a guide at the tourist center where your driver can take you. I would definately recommend a guide. My guide managed to do a reserve order from the usual routine, ex, going to the main temple during lunch hour where it was mostly empty. I managed to get most of my pictures with no people in it. I would try to see the main temple (the one in the classic photos of Angkor) and Ta Prom (the one with the large strangler figs which have been left to grow in the temple complex) if you only have one day. Enjoy, it is one of the most amazing monuments in the world.

Just to chime in on the above point, which I totally agree with. I have a number of friends, both foreign and local, who have had traffic accidents while driving at night. Note that the problem may not be the other cars, but also the obstacles that you can't see so easily when it's dark - e.g., cows, oxcarts, piles of construction material (that's what did in a friend's car on t he road to Battambang), etc.

I would definitely stay in PP the first night there and then leave in the morning for Siem Reap. Or stay an extra day and enjoy the city - up to you.

Enjoy your trip,
Michael

On the advice of jpatokal and Michael, we have changed plans and reservations accordingly to spend the night in Phnom Penh after arriving from Chau Doc, and continue to Siem Reap the next day . . .

. . . in the daylight.

I think we are then going to travel overland to Bangkok from Siem Reap, but that will depend on the road conditions as the time approaches.

Thanks for the advice, good looking out. ^

Hi folks,

I think I am the type who would prefer to spend only a day on the Angkor temples, so I was just wondering if there are other things/places I can spend time on? I have an afternoon free.

Hi folks,

I think I am the type who would prefer to spend only a day on the Angkor temples, so I was just wondering if there are other things/places I can spend time on? I have an afternoon free.
The usual thing to do is to take a boat trip on the Tonle Sap lake. The temples occupy a vast area, though, and you may well change your mind once you're there.

There are some really d-u-m-b tourist activities like the overpriced theme park on Highway 6, but the temples are the world class draw. The lake can be pleasant when you're are temple'd out.

I think I am the type who would prefer to spend only a day on the Angkor temples, so I was just wondering if there are other things/places I can spend time on? I have an afternoon free.

I found Aki Ra's Land Mine Musem (http://www.akiramineaction.com/) well worth a visit. It's on a dirt road located just past the temple ticket office.