MilesBuzz! - Now A New Even More Dangerous Security Threat

Get this one everybody!!!!

Flying from DAL to IAH today on CO I first was forced to X-RAY my wallet and belt even though they did not set off the metal detector and then I was wanded because I guess I looked menancing (read a 20something white guy that had just pulled an alnighter on a project).

After questioning this the National Guardsmen got involved and started threatening me for questioning the need to wand me after going through the stand up metal detetctor 2x and not setting it off.

Thats not even the best part yet, after X-RAYing my wallet and keys there was deemed a "dangerous article." What is this you ask? Simply the emergency key card for my car I keep in my wallet. Apparently it was "dangerous" and had to be confiscated. Yes they now think keys with sharp points may infact be used to bring down a regional jet.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!!! There need to be universal standards put in place to quell these power hungry minimum wages employees.

wow! were you docile or antagonistic in your comments?

Unbelieveable. We need to get these new searches and seizures tested in court. I'm sure that they would be ruled unconstitutional. Someone needs to take these to court.

I know they have told me to put my wallet in the basket at times, which I always ignore and walk through anyways. I see all these baskets with wallets, keys, money etc just sitting there and wonder how much gets "lost".

If the airport one travels through often forces it, put the stuff in your briefcase, computer bag or carryon or jacket first then let them run it through the xray.

Standards? In theory it should help, but that assumes these people would read and follow them. Hah!

I put all the items from my pockets in my briefcase...I only keep my drivers license in my pocket...NOTHING else...Besides the "bomb" test, bag seems to get through without problems...Sharp objects...what about the glasses they use in first class...break one and you have an instant "sharp object"...or take a pop can and flatten it...another "sharp object" There is no end to the possibilities...Moral of story, flying can't be completely safe...eye candy at security checkpoints just adds to problem.

Credit cards, driving licences and similar can receive a razor-sharp edge. I wonder why they do not confiscate some of those? :-)

Probably because these people are hardly "razor-sharp".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rcomputer:
Credit cards, driving licences and similar can receive a razor-sharp edge. I wonder why they do not confiscate some of those? :-)</font>



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"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Ben Franklin

Someone said in another forum that the wand can damage your credit card magnetic strips. If that's the case, you're probably better off sending it through the x-ray machine than getting it wanded a dozen times a week.

d

Like NoStressHere, I dump my wallet and all pocket contents into my briefcase and send everything along on the conveyor belt. Then I march my 50-something body through the mag and warmly smile at the guards. So far, I haven't attracted special attention.

Why didn't you ask for a supervisor? What is the difference between a key card and an actual key?

Stupidity is now gainfully employed. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I'm sorry, this is about safety. Obviously if you rapidly rub your emergency key card against someone's bare skin, the offended party may end up with an injury similar to a rug burn, or heaven forbid, a deep scratch. Who knows what demands the flight crew will give in to considering that horrible prospect? Do you want to take that chance? You should feel fortunate that there are people concerned enough to care. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

(Public Service Message: the comment above is heavily laden with sarcasm.)

Now, I, on the other hand have been rightfully chastised for attempting to bring a manifestly dangerous item on board. Several weeks ago, I was a gate "selectee" in EWR, and upon inspection of my items, the offending article was confiscated over my half-hearted protests. The item: a standard paper clip. I was duly informed with all sincerity that I could have straightened the clip out and then use it as a weapon. (The security official must have been confused me with James Bond or MacGyver) Little did I know what power I had wielded over the last 500,000+ miles with that little paper clip in my travel notebook.

Once again, remember it is all about safety! Happy flying! (if you can get past "security")

CWPFLY

Well.......unfortunately it seems I have to fly thru MIA and LAX in the first week on January on my way back from South America with 2 small carry on's. This should be interesting.......I'll probably return to YYC with half a tongue.

I have to laugh, because the same thing happens to me. But I'm the exact opposite of the author of this thread. I'm a 24 year old blk guy. I guess me and all my ultra preppy attire, laptop, and business papers I look menacing. There hasn't been on time that I have gone to leave from MIA, and passed through the medical detector twice without a sound, only to be wanded, and then frisked. Last week when this happened, they had me undo my belt, and pants. I kept thinking,"I wish I hadn't have worn underwear today"

umguy, sorry to hear stories like this. (But your response is funny)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">After questioning this the National Guardsmen got involved and started threatening me for questioning the need to wand me after going through the stand up metal detetctor 2x and not setting it off.
[/B]</font>


In what way did the National Guardsman threaten you? Did he threaten to shoot you or have you thrown in the Brig? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just to clarify some things. At first I was not antigonsitic until they wanted to wand me after having me remove my belt and wallet and go through the metal detector twice without setting it off. I hope my same friends are there tomorrow when I get to go back through.

Yes, the burly, tough looking weekend warrior (read sarcasm there) actually threatened to arrest me. It didn't help when I started telling him of the posse comitus (sp?) laws saying he had no authority in civilian affairs.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone. Enjoy the crowds at the airports, just heard on the radio all the daily parking lots at IAH are nearly full.

I haven't had any similar experience, but I am a little worried about the sensitivity of the metal detectors.

I carry a sterling silver money clip that if straightened out would be about 4" long. It's also pretty thick; overall a fairly substantial chunk of metal.

It has *never* set off a metal detector. I just hope no-one is carrying a similar sized, straight, sharpened piece of metal to use as a weapon.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gottigotti:
At first I was not antigonsitic until they wanted to wand me after having me remove my belt and wallet and go through the metal detector twice without setting it off.</font>

So. Take your friggin belt off, and be respectful. Let them wand you. What's the big deal?

It takes minutes of your time for the good of all.

FYI, the National Guardsmen do not talk to passengers... I have tried to communicate with them more than a few times -- evan a simple, "thank you" - and they don't seem to be allowed to acknowledge passenger communication.

If we were to let the security people do their job without attitude from people like you, maybe there wouldn't be as much burnout. They are simply trying to do their job. Next time, try letting them, with a bit of respect. The security people aren't responsible for WHY we have to do this. A little respect for others goes a long way.

cpd

Because for the most part, these new security measures aren't adding ANYTHING to security. I agree: don't abuse the employees unless they abuse their authority. However, many of them have clearly demonstrated their inability to think clearly. Or at all. No FAA mandate declares that paper clips shall be confiscated for example but some of these idiots do things like that. Regularly. Unless we say "enough is enough" the insanity will continue.

I wish there had been a newsteam at SDF this morning interviewing people for their opinions on all this great new security. The folks in line around me would have given the FAA an earfull, as would have I.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by carpeperdiem:
So. Take your friggin belt off, and be respectful. Let them wand you. What's the big deal?

It takes minutes of your time for the good of all.</font>

My beef is not with the security guard who does there job as they should. I have poited out from the beginning that 9-11 was not their fault. The knifes used for that were "approved" by the FAA.

My beef is with the over zealous security guards and National Guardsmen that now think they are the only people between a civilized society and anarchy.

This footnote. Just talked to my girlfriend who flew DL from DFW to LGA this morning. She was required to remove her bra after NOT setting off the metal detetectors and then after NOT setting them off again she was frisked.

Now I ask you... Is it appropriate for a 23 year old girl travelling home for Christmas to be "stripped" searched?

So where is Mr. Minetta? see this forum http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005901.html

Anyone have his email? I would love to send these two threads to him.

The problem is that the security people are not out to catch terrorists, they are going through a checklist of things. Go through the checklist and that's all you need for a cya.

It's all over the newspapers that airlines don't check for bombs. I don't like to say it, but every newspaper and TV report has mentioned it. The security can say "it wasn't on our list of things to check. However, we did catch 13,249 nail clippers, 2,485 scissors, 369 dinner forks, etc."

I love everyone who has their "I don't look like a terrorist, so I shouldn't be bothered by the security people" attitude.

Unforunately, the security screeners don't know who you are and that you're not a terrorist. Tim McVeigh looked like a pretty respectable guy, as did most of the 9/11 hijackers I saw pictures of.

I'm sorry, but you "looking like a respectable person" in your opinion doesn't waive your obligation to be fully screened. The point of the security screening is SECURITY. Screeners can't just waive by people who "look good" and only concentrate on people you think "look like terrorists." The 9/11 hijackers were specifically trained to look and act like Americans, and according to the bin laden video, may not have even known their missions until inside the airport.

While we don't need to go overboard, just because someone is young, old, middle aged, white, black, asian, arab, native american, etc. looking, it doesn't mean they are or are not terrorists. Terrorists can be very cunning people, just like we. We've found ways around just about every security policy; but that's by no means a reason to make security lax.

d

I'm with Doppy-let's all take a deep breath and realize the rules were never good and there's going to be a long transition period until they are.

In the last week I had two flights and twice my tools for eating consisted of a plastic knife and two metal forks. Now I've never thought about what vioence I could do with a small metal fork, but I had to laugh at what sure seemed like a silly half gesture-take away the metal knife (always dull when I tried to cut meat) and leave me with two metal forks.

Don't call your lawyers yet, folks. Heck, in WW2, they even had food shortages.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gottigotti:
Yes, the burly, tough looking weekend warrior (read sarcasm there) actually threatened to arrest me. It didn't help when I started telling him of the posse comitus (sp?) laws saying he had no authority in civilian affairs.
</font>

The Posse Comitatus act, originally passed in 1878, doesn't actually apply to the National Guard, as far as I know.

http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html#fn0

Look at section II subsection A for a discussion. If there is another law that specifically applies to the National Guard, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

d

I guess that they will start asking to remove pacemakers, artificial joints, penile implanst and those very dangerous silicone breast implants

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Live4Miles:
I put all the items from my pockets in my briefcase...I only keep my drivers license in my pocket...NOTHING else...Besides the "bomb" test, bag seems to get through without problems...Sharp objects...what about the glasses they use in first class...break one and you have an instant "sharp object"...or take a pop can and flatten it...another "sharp object" There is no end to the possibilities...Moral of story, flying can't be completely safe...eye candy at security checkpoints just adds to problem.</font>

Excellent point on puting all pocket items except ID in the carry-on before it goes through the x-ray. I agree with others that there is certainly an increased risk of losing valuables when going through security now.

Regarding the unusual scrutiny we sometimes receive from airport security, why not complain to the airline? True, they're not directly responsible for the rules and scrutiny, but they could probably have an influence in improving the system if they heard more about the impact it was having on their frequent fliers.

I think you mean Section 3, subsection A.

Funny... but I just read that wine and other alchohol bottles are allowed to be carried on board. Break one these and they can be worse than box cutters. Go figure.

I had an older security guy look at my wallet and ask 'what's that?' Stunned and lost for a reply, I stood there with mouth open. Finally the guy behind me said 'money purse' and I was let through.

I'm too worried to put my valuables on the conveyor belt. Too high a theft risk. My 'money purse' is down to the basics, but I do have a card key. Ugh! What now?

Stop the madness!

Someone mentioned about people being able to carry bottles of alcohol on board. Well CO gives you the whole bottle of Sam Adams in First class. I mean as stated this can just as much be a weapon as some of the stuff they have prohibited. Someone stated earlier that we cut these people some slack. Well I believe in letting everyone do there job. But when you fly 3-4 times a week, And out of your home airport, you are hand searched for no reason everytime and everyone else just walks on by. I think there is a problem. At that point it no longer seems like people doing their job. It seems like people abusing their "fake" sense of power.

And those poor dears who search my carryon and rummage through my toiletry kit, item by item, pausing for an ever so brief milli second when they come to the couple of condoms tucked away beside the shave cream and skin lotion. [They've obviously never gotten a Virgin Upper Class amenity kit!] Good thing its been 20 years since I carried them in my wallet! So much for privacy of the person. Even the police don't have the power to conduct these types of body and personal item searches in the pursuit of criminals.

Where are the civil rights lawyers in America when we really need them?

Last week in OKC, after I had run my purse through the X-ray machine, a security agent went through my purse in my presence and removed many items which he left on the counter in front of me while he walked away with my purse to run it through the X-ray machine a second time--after which he handed it (my purse) back to me.

The next morning when I checked my cash, I discovered that a $50.00 bill was missing. The only time my purse had been out of my sight was during this security check. I called UA Customer Service to report this incident, but since I didn't know the agent's name they said there wasn't much they could do.

Since then I have refused to let anyone separate me from my purse for any reason. The agents now get very upset with me for not being obsequious and responding immediately when they demand that I leave my belongings on the belt and walk away with them for additional screening, but I remain firm--if they want to wand me or check me again, I insist that a National Guardperson stand in front of me holding my purse and bag while they screen me rather than leaving my possesions on the belt out of my sight. The very second I question their actions they immediately start yelling for help, but when help arrives, they are always unable, individually or collectively, to come up with any logical reason that I should separate myself from my belongings while either my belongings or I are subjected to further search.

Go Punki!

Since my cellphone was stolen at a checkpoint this summer, I have been very careful. It was stolen by a security worker.

They post signs saying they are "not responsible" but that can't be, as you are often giving up custody of your stuff.

It's a mess if something is stolen or missing, so I think you have an excellent policy, though certainly not a popular one http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

When I refused to move to a faraway area to be wanded while my bag sat on the belt (Boston, December 2), A Boston cop told me I would have to either do it or leave the airport. No negotiation permitted. I did it, but I was -- and still am -- very unhappy about it. I complained to Delta, which agreed with me!!!!

Bruce

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
When I refused to move to a faraway area to be wanded while my bag sat on the belt (Boston, December 2), A Boston cop told me I would have to either do it or leave the airport. No negotiation permitted. I did it, but I was -- and still am -- very unhappy about it. I complained to Delta, which agreed with me!!!!
Bruce</font>

Bruce, what did the person from DL tell you to do in the future if this type of situation happens again?

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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">"There are only two reasons to sit in the back row of an airplane:
Either you have diarrhea, or you're anxious to meet people who do."

Henry Kissinger</font>

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 12-23-2001).]

She (a Redcoat) promised that "it won't happen again." Well, not to me, anyway. I don't plan to be in Boston again for a long time. That place is nuts!

Bruce

I am willing to put up with a lot in the name of REAL security, but I will not allow valuables to be out of my sight. Not that I carry much that is, now that I am retired.

I use an old sailor's trick and keep my paper money on my person with enough readily at hand to buy a sandwich and coffee.

I have thinned out my wallet to the absolute limit. My '2 pieces of identification' and an insurance card.

Funny, that bum who boarded in Paris didn't need 2 pieces of ID!

I strongly recommend TravelSmith and Magellan travel jackets, shirts and pants for self stowage of non matalic items.

I think ladies should stand their ground and refuse to be separated from their hand bags.

Stop the madness and give us real security!

Texana

When going through a check point, I put all of my paper money in my buttoned up pockets and all of the remainder on the conveyor belt. definitely not in a computer case, One of the first things to be stolen. Xray machines will not hurt magnetic strips but the wand may.
Some people are more magnetic machine senstive than others. I am luckly not one of them. I have gone thro machines with a pocketful of coins.

At my home airport starting the trip I am on now I had emptied my rollaboard of all (so I believed) dangerous grooming items. I did not have my computer with me at this time either. The bag was selected for further examination. Apparantly they saw something round and big. I had no idea what they were looking for. The carefully packed contents of my bag were deposited in a pile which ran into a pile of someone elses stuff next to me. The bag was run through again. Still the mysterious round object. I reach to the bag to empty the remaining stuff and am told "Don't even go there. If you do I will call the National Guard and you will be escorted out and will not make your flight" The rest of the contents emptied and the bag was run through a third time. Still the round object. A plastic tined wine opener that had made muster every other time since 9-11 was stolen from me out of the pile. Repacking my bag I finally made the flight.

A previous time my bag was on the roller behind me about 20 feeet away, the computer out of the bag out in the open, my wallet opened and emptied on a table in the opposite direction along with my keys. Was again told if I tried to get my computer so I could keep an eye on it alongside my wallet I would be visited by the National Guard. The sign says they are not responsible for stolen items. They won't let me be responsible for watching my own items either.

If the hassle factor really contributed to safety I would not object quite as much but this seems to be all window dressing.

I would be the first one to get in line to outlaw lawsuits in America, BUT.

What we need now are a handful of lawsuits against the airlines/airports/govt for lost items due to handling in the so called security process. This craziness has got to stop.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
What we need now are a handful of lawsuits against the airlines/airports/govt for lost items due to handling in the so called security process. This craziness has got to stop.</font>


how about a few sexual harassment lawsuits from a few women who walk away from security feeling dirty? that would get beter press than if i sue over my missing palm pilot...