MilesBuzz! - Airlines should advertise REAL cost - ticket + junk fees :mad:

Over the last few weeks, most of the airlines have advertised great ticket prices - until you look at all the junk fees which add as much as 40% to what looked like a real deal. Fees vary according to domestic or international destination, plane changes, fuel surcharges, etc. Why don't they just give the inclusive price to begin with, or at least say up front that additional fees of as much as XXX $ will apply?

Caveat emptor.

Same reason McDonalds has a 99 cent menu, and a luxury car costs 49,999.99. You'd think once your transaction was over a couple of dollars, another cent to make it an even number wouldn't make a difference.

Travelocity usually says fees of up to XXX will apply (I think it used to say something like up to $113).

But, the reason they can't give an inclusive price for most fares is that it depends on which specific airports you go to. So, a flight from NYC-LAX could be non-stop, via DFW, ORD, STL, etc... If you're quoting a specific fare via specific airports at a specific time, then you can give an all-inclusive price. If you're quoting a general fare that's available between city pairs, the taxes and fees change, so you can't quote a straight price.

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SOme FLyertalkers may be too new here to remember this beauty:


If Airlines Sold Paint - Author Unknown
---------------------------------------------
>> Buying paint from a paint store... <<

Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?

Clerk: We have regular quality for $12 a gallon and premium for $18. How many gallons would you like?

Customer: Five gallons of regular quality, please.

Clerk: Great. That will be $60 plus tax.

+ ---------------------------------------------
>> Buying paint from an airline... <<

Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?

Clerk: Well, Sir that all depends.

Customer: Depends on what?

Clerk: Actually, a lot of things.

Customer: How about giving me an average price?

Clerk: Wow, that's too hard a question. The lowest price is $9 a gallon, and we have 150 different prices up to $200 a gallon.

Customer: What's the difference in the paint?

Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference, it's all the same paint.

Customer: Well, then, I'd like some of that $9 paint.

Clerk: Well, First I need to ask you a few questions. When do you intend to use it?

Customer: I want to paint tomorrow, on my day off.

Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is $200 paint.

Customer: What? When would I have to paint in order to get $9 paint?

Clerk: That would be in three weeks, but you will also have to agree to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting until at least Sunday.

Customer: You've got to be kidding!

Clerk: Sir, we don't kid around here. Of course, I'll have to check to see if we have any of that paint available before I can sell it to you.

Customer: What do you mean check to see if you can sell it to me? You have shelves full of that stuff; I can see it right there.

Clerk: Just because you can see it doesn't mean that we have it. It may be the same paint, but we sell only a certain number of gallons on any given weekend. Oh, and by the way, the price just went up to $12.

Customer: You mean the price went up while we were talking?

Clerk: Yes sir. You see, we change prices and rules thousands of times a day, and since you haven't
actually walked out of the store with your paint yet, we just decided to change. Unless you want the same thing to happen again, I would suggest you get on with your purchase. How many gallons do you want?

Customer: I don't know exactly. Maybe five gallons. Maybe I should buy six gallons just to make sure I have enough.

Clerk: Oh, no sir, you can't do that. If you buy the paint and then don't use it, you will be liable for penalties and possible confiscation of the paint you already have.

Customer: What?

Clerk: That's right. We can sell you enough paint to do your kitchen, bathroom, hall and north bedroom, but if you stop painting before you do the other bedroom, you will be in violation of our tariffs.

Customer: But what does it matter to you whether I use all of the paint? I already paid you for it!

Clerk: Sir, there's no point in getting upset; that's just the way it is. We make plans based upon the idea that you will use all of the paint, and when you don't, it just causes us all sorts of problems.

Customer: This is crazy! I suppose something terrible will happen if I don't keep painting until Sunday night?

Clerk: Yes sir, it will.

Customer: Well that does it! I am going somewhere else to buy paint!

Clerk: That won't do you any good, sir. We all have the same rules. You might as well just buy it here, while the price is now $13.50. Thanks for flying - I mean painting - with our airline.

Write your legislator!

I have been one of those who has griped for years that airlines shouldn't be able to advertise one-way fares if you have to buy a round trip.

In Holland, I notice, the fares that are advertised include all taxes and fees and are round-trip fares if you have to buy round trip.

Oh, and, big surprise, the fares in Holland are generally lower.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SFO2AMS:
Write your legislator!

I have been one of those who has griped for years that airlines shouldn't be able to advertise one-way fares if you have to buy a round trip.

In Holland, I notice, the fares that are advertised include all taxes and fees and are round-trip fares if you have to buy round trip.

Oh, and, big surprise, the fares in Holland are generally lower.</font>

If only! Most prices over here are quoted just as cryptic as in the US. I know just 1 agent that quotes all their prices including all charges.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Doppy:
But, the reason they can't give an inclusive price for most fares is that it depends on which specific airports you go to. So, a flight from NYC-LAX could be non-stop, via DFW, ORD, STL, etc... If you're quoting a specific fare via specific airports at a specific time, then you can give an all-inclusive price. If you're quoting a general fare that's available between city pairs, the taxes and fees change, so you can't quote a straight price.
</font>

IMO, this is not a good enough excuse for the airlines. Rather than advertising a $100 one-way fare which really requires a round-trip purchase that ends up being $250 after taxes and fees for the best (non-stop) case, it would be more honest if the airlines were required to advertise the sale fare as being $250 or slightly higher depending on routing. If the American public can be expected to live with and understand that a dishonestly advertised price of $100 really means $250, they surely can live with and understand that an honestly advertised price of $250 might actually turn out to be $253 when it hits their credit card statement.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flowerchild:
Why don't they just give the inclusive price to begin with, or at least say up front that additional fees of as much as XXX $ will apply?</font>

The simply answer is that they like to con the public and nobody is stopping them. It's like advertising one-way prices that are only available when you buy a return ticket: That's misleading advertising, but the US tends to have crappy consumer protection laws.

It's also something that should have been stamped out long ago, but wasn't. Hotels are allowed to advertise a price which doesn't include taxes. Restaurants advertise prices and then expect tips. The US is full of this sort of irritating and often fraudulent behaviour.

I think the same problem exists with car rental companies (ever notice how a $129 rental can end up costing $180?) and hotels (those occupancy taxes are sometimes over 20%). Actually, it also applies to the advertised price of anything subject to sales tax, too!

Nevertheless I agree -- airlines could advertise an aproximate total price, subject to some small variation depending on the routing. (I just realized that gasoline is advertised at the full price including taxes).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TravelLover:
I think the same problem exists with car rental companies (ever notice how a $129 rental can end up costing $180?) and hotels (those occupancy taxes are sometimes over 20%). Actually, it also applies to the advertised price of anything subject to sales tax, too!</font>

Have you rented a car in Dallas lately!? I had a midsized car reserved for $109 weekly rate. When I got to the counter, I was offered an upgrade to a luxury car for $30 more. Upon returning the car, my bill was almost $230! I beleive there are 3 different taxes, and two different fees equalling $6.40 per day plus 25%!

This is why you don't budget based on advertised cost, but on what is refered to in Britian as the "all in" cost - your final cost. When you go to the rental car counter, ask what all of the taxes will be, or better ask when you make the reservation.

Advertising games only work on people who don't know the going prices and taxes. Know these, and know what the general "all in" cost is, and it will save you money. Be careful about taking suggestive sell upgrades - such as "30 dollars for a luxury" car. If you are price sensitive, stay where you know what you are paying. The concessions fees and other taxes are information that is available up front. Sometimes it is worth taking a taxi or other transportation off the airport to rent a car, often it isn't. If you don't price it you won't know. If you aren't pricing it, then the extra money you are paying is for your convenience in not having to shop for the best bargain.

While there are advertising promises that are egregious and so on - the airline industry knows that they can get multi-billion dollar hand outs without having to give out a single share of stock or other concession. That is the rules of the game as it is played right now.


[This message has been edited by nw_with_attitude (edited 12-24-2001).]

The paint-purchase story above was very clever - Thanks!
I remember being at the offices of one of the Big-5 accounting firms in Cleveland on a special assignment. The assignment required the expertise of people from their offices around the world and so we had quite a mix of professionals from all around the world.
One morning a newly qualified Chartered Accountant (a woman) came into the office very happy and excited with the full page advert of one of the airlines offering bargain fares to everywhere (including London). She could afford to go and visit her family for a week! I felt quite bad pointing out to her the fine print that read "one-way fare based on roundtrip purchase."
According to the latest Consumer Reports the consumer law states that "what the headline giveth, the small-print cannot taketh away." Perhaps that principle should be applied to airline adverts.

SpuddBrother: Why yes, I did have occasion to rent a car in Dallas lately, and these were the SIX items tacked onto my $22/day base rate for a compact:

1. "Facility Charge" of $3 per day (What the heck is this? Thought that was what the airport's "concession recoup fee" covered?)

2. "Concession Recoup Fee" of 11.11% (And to think this one used to be ONLY 10%)

3. "EULESS (??) Motor Vehicle Rent Tax" of 5%

4. "Prop Tax Lic & Title Fee" of $1.67 per day (Don't the rental companies have to pay for anything themselves to run their business?)

5. "Motor Vehicle Rental Tax" of another 10%

6. And that old favorite, the "Frequent Flyer Tax"

These six together added another 50% onto my two day rental of $44.

A rental several months ago in San Antonio resulted in over 40% in add-ons. Texas seems to be the "king of rental add-ons" to date.

And I remember, what, just five or so years ago, when a rental in Atlanta was covered by a single 5% tax.

Renting cars is one of the least transparent transactions I engage in these days. Most recent example (HERTZ IAH last week):

2 Days @ $54.00 = $108.00
Concession fee recovery = $11.99 (11.10%)
FF Excise Tax = $0.15 (6.94% of FF mile value @ 0.02 cents/mile)
CFC/VLF = $11.30 (10.46%; no further detail on what this charge is, exactly)
Tax @ 15.00% on $131.44 = $19.72 (18.26%; hmmm... a tax on a tax)
Total = $151.16 (coincidentally this works out to an add-on of exactly 40%)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ColoBill1:


3. "EULESS (??) Motor Vehicle Rent Tax" of 5%
</font>

Euless is one of the cities surrounding DFW airport. I'd guess that it's where the rental car center si physically located.

I find that my Hertz quotes on-line are correct to within pennies of my actual rentals. They include all those add-ons. (Other companies can be different, and those ad come-ons may be REALLY different.)

You will PLEASE notice that almost all those add-ons are LOCAL TAXES of one sort or another. Car renters mostly don't vote in the locations they rent in, and are consequently one of the most TAXED groups in the US. Do you have any idea how many STADIUMS we are busy building?

Airlines, too, want to advertise what THEY WILL GET from your ticket. Most of the rest is going to support the air traffic control system, security, building airports, etc.

When you buy a car, it doesn't include the gas taxes. When you build a house, it doesn't include electricity you'll use to run it or your real estate taxes. But when you buy usage of a public transportation, you have to pay for everything.

Honest companies give you an idea of the total charges, if you look; but others want to appear "cheaper" and don't tell you up-front about the add-ons. You have to pay attention....as ETOPS said, Caveat Emptor.